With reports that the Obama Administration is considering backing down on the public option – a health care proposal that is supported by roughly 3/4 of the country – due to the way the debate is being portrayed in the media, I get the sense that we’ve witnessed what might be an even larger media failure than what happened in the run-up to the Iraq War. At least then, the public was in far more of a position to buy into the lies being put out by the special interest groups leading us into that mess. But what has happened over the past few weeks in the health care debate has transcended that. A narrow set of interests who profit very handsomely from our incredibly overpriced health care system have managed to derail a popular initiative put forth by a popular president. It’s another loud warning that the ability of Americans (and media personalities) to figure out when moneyed interests are lying to us is not keeping up with the myriad ways we’re all being lied to.
A big part of this distorted debate has focused on end-of-life issues. An innocuous provision in one of the health care bills was incorrectly characterized by former Alaska Governor and losing Vice Presidential candidate Sarah Palin as “death panels“. The issue itself was nothing more than a provision to allow for voluntary end-of-life counseling sessions to be covered. As I’ve pointed out previously, these end-of-life sessions have a well-known positive effect when people take advantage of them. In fact, those who discuss these issues openly and honestly with their doctors tend to outlive those who don’t. The idea that there’s anything to fear from something like this is so absurd that even Sarah Palin herself didn’t buy it back in 2008 when she endorsed end-of-life counseling as Governor of Alaska.
Instead, much of what happened after Palin dropped that turd into the health care debate punch bowl reminded me a lot of what happened last year during the I-1000 campaign, where opponents of the death with dignity initiative piled lies on top of bullshit on top of more lies in order to convince people that a law that was working very well just across the border in Oregon would somehow be a disaster here in Washington. One can easily see the parallel to the current health care debate, where we can look to countries like France – which has a world-class health care system that relies heavily on government involvement alongside private insurance – to see that moving towards more “socialized” medicine is not a slippery slope. And we rarely saw the media (either last year or right now) take a forceful approach to separating fact from fiction this way.
Fortunately, the I-1000 debate was only about a single contentious issue, and in the end, it didn’t really matter that Martin Sheen was telling whoppers in a commercial that aired every 10 seconds in October, or that the Seattle Times was giving editorial space to a crackpot conspiracy theorist who actually believes that Washington’s death with dignity law was specifically worded to allow people to kill their rich parents. It still passed with nearly 60 percent of the vote. I think that’s one thing to be optimistic about. I remember having a conversation with Will around this time last year (he was working on the I-1000 campaign) as he was freaking out about all the bullshit being shouted through media outlets who arguably should have had much better baloney detectors. I told him there’s no way it wasn’t going to pass, and I ended up being vindicated on that front.
The national health care debate right now is a complete buffet of every contentious issue that borders on health care. End-of-life care is just a small tibdit. Abortion, government regulation, illegal immigrants, and taxes are each separate elephants crammed trunk to tail into this room. And while the people whose paranoia far outweighs their ability to grasp complex issues continue to show up at town halls and scream their heads off, I still hold out some hope that enough Americans are taking the same thing away from the spectacle that I am, that we’re really not doing a good enough job in this country of treating the mentally ill – and that’s just another reason we need to improve our health care system. Sadly, we’ll still likely have to improve how we keep ourselves well-informed first.
Any reasonably composed death panel would order Glenn Back to be immediately counseled on his end of life options at no charge to him. I know it might sound radical and murderous, but I am totally serous about this.
That would teach him. Not.
lee, i lost count of how many lies you just told. 3/4 of the country support obamas proposal?????lolololol..yeah, thats because your country consists of new york, hollywood and palm beach. its funny, its ok for you to bring up the bush lied crap again. so, i’ll bring up the aipac lied again, and thats why we went to iraq. but you’re gonna tell me i cant bring up who lied about iraq, only you can. you fucking fool
@2
Are you saying that the poll I linked to is just part of the Jewish conspiracy to take over the world and euthanize your grandma? Because if that is what you’re saying, it’s still not even close to the craziest or the most anti-Semitic thing you’ve said in these comment threads.
Perhaps HA should have its own Death Panel for treasonous, America-hating trolls.*
*Just kidding, trolls. I’m just throwing out some Coulter-style wingnut humor to see how it goes over with you goatfucking freaks.
“And while the people whose paranoia far outweighs their ability to grasp complex issues continue to show up at town halls and scream their heads off …”
They’re doing more than that, Goldy. Now they’re showing up at presidential speeches and waving GUNS. Not too subtle a message these folks are trying to send. Getting close to time to call out the National Guard to protect the rights of the rest of us to choose our own government.
@2 So now you’re trying to blame Bush’s whoppers about WMDs, Nigerian uranium, etc., on Israel sympathizers? ROFLMAO!!!
The Truth About Britain’s Socialized Medicine
“Like most developed countries, Britain ranks above the U.S. in most health measurements. Its citizens have a longer life expectancy and lower infant mortality, the country has more acute-care hospital beds per capita and fewer deaths due to surgical or medical mishaps.
“Britain achieves these results while spending … about $2,500 per person … compared to $6,000 in the U.S.”
http://www.time.com/time/healt.....70,00.html
There will be a public option because, Newsweek says, if public option is taken off the table Obama will lose 100 House Democrats and get no bill at all.
http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs.....ption.aspx
@2 “3/4 of the country support obamas proposal?????”
Yes, that’s roughly correct, because even those who have health insurance know they could lose it tomorrow if their job is offshored; know that even with health insurance they could lose everything they’ve worked for because the insurance company may simply refuse to pay; and, above all, know they could even lose their lives simply because of a decision their insurer might make in its own economic self-interest.
@3
so lee, tell me how you found antiseitism in my post. this i would like to hear.
DEMOCRATS PROTEST KILLING
REPUBLICANS PROTEST CURING
Remember that when you vote!
Lee vomits:
You are a funny man Lee.
Quoting the Huffington Post on an NBC Poll from over 2 months ago??
You are a real sore loooooooooooooser.
I thought Obama was your man?
I thought you KLOWNS controlled Congress??
Neither the House nor the Senate has the votes dumbass.
Obama’s effort to pressure Baucus BACKFIRED bigtime.
Obama got a Civics lesson.
Obama’s grade on Politics for Health Care
F————————-
Lee-
Back to smokin’ pot again??
Loooooooooooooooooser!!
Hey, you Leftist Freeloaders…go freeload in these places!
http://finance.yahoo.com/real-.....estate-buy
Cynical, when we on the right post commentary like this we’re called all types of names.
“Patients may refuse without penalty, but many will bow to white-coated authority. Once they’re in the meeting, the bill does permit “formulation” of a plug-pulling order right then and there. So when Rep. Earl Blumenauer (D-Ore.) denies that Section 1233 would “place senior citizens in situations where they feel pressured to sign end-of-life directives that they would not otherwise sign,” I don’t think he’s being realistic.”
BTW Charles Lane was editor of the New Republic.
Nuff SAID!
There WILL be panels. That’s in the bill. And these panels will decide on who gets care, any care, not just end of life care. The only question that remains is if these panels will be political in nature. Will they deny or approve medical procedures based on a person’s political beliefs.
Puddy–
These KLOWNS are insane.
Fortunately, the grown-ups are still in charge.
Steve with the pretend Black Friend who pretend died……
Yet another post by Steve with ZERO Substance.
Go back to your imaginery place and create another imaginery black friend.
Steve created his special black friend after insulting Puddy.
Sorry, but this says more about the Obama Administration and the Democrats in Congress than it does anyone else. If the Democrats wanted their bill passed, they could get it done. Just like the Democrats in Olympia, they’re long on CYA and short on leadership. Don’t try to pass the buck to the media. I voted for these guys to actually change things, not to pull the same crap, this time with a (D) after it….
But seriously now folks, Mr. Klynical was just saying to me the other day that there’s a real down-side to him fucking that poor, hapless goat of his. Sez the Klynical one to me, “Ugh, I always have to klean my KLOWN costume afterwards!” heh-
I’ve always said that it’s gotta be a bitch being Mr. Klynical.
So then he sez to me, “You know what the difference is between an apple and a dead goat?” Get this. He sez, “I don’t fuck the apple before I eat it!”
Oh, I’m just fucking with you, KLOWN.
Seriously now, do you know what Marvin calls Mr. Klynical when he spots him on a street corner with a goat under each arm? “My pimp!” heh- Do you know what Marvin calls Mr. Klynical’s barn? “The whorehouse!”
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA!!!!!
Oh, lighten up, KLOWN! I’m just fucking with you.
One can easily see the parallel to the current health care debate, where we can look to countries like France – which has a world-class health care system that relies heavily on government involvement alongside private insurance – to see that moving towards more “socialized” medicine is not a slippery slope.
———————-
Right, very “world class”:
[http://s.wsj.net/public/resources/images/EI-AW162_FRHEAL_NS_20090806165621.gif]
“Assurance Maladie should be able to contain hospital costs the same way it does with doctors: by harnessing its position as the dominant payer in the health-care system. In practice, it doesn’t work that way.
“The state hospital of Le Havre, called Groupement Hospitalier du Havre, or GHH, has nearly 2,000 beds and is one of the most financially strapped in France. A 2002 report by France’s health-inspection authority found that the hospital had a track record of falsifying accounts in order to obtain more state funds.
“Philippe Paris was hired about two years ago to help fix the hospital’s spiraling costs. He is cutting 173 jobs out of the staff of 3,543.
And he is trying to enforce working hours. ‘People don’t work enough,’ he said. “If consultations are scheduled to begin at 8 a.m., that means 8 a.m. and not 11 a.m.'”
France Fights Universal Care’s High Cost
[http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124958049241511735.html]
[Deleted — see HA Comment Policy]
The media already has death panels. They’re called “boards of directors,” and they decide which newspaper will die next.
@12 Oh, maybe those gun-totin’ protesters have changed a few minds, but not many. Mainly they’re making the GOP look like silly hicks.
@15 Gee, puddy, what’s the big deal? You sign away your life to the surgeon’s hands every time you’re in the hospital. No signature, no operation. This isn’t new; it’s been that way for quite a while.
@16 We already have private-sector death panels. They decide who will get care based on how much money you can pay. I hope, for your sake, you have a LOT of money because if you don’t, you’re dog food.
Ya know, if Democrats don’t want to govern when they’re in office, and the voters who put them in office get disgusted enough to stay home, I could live with Republicans running things again. After all, I’m too old to fight their wars, I don’t work so I don’t have to pay their taxes, and I’ve already left instructions with my personal attorney that will make my kids millionaires if I die because my health insurance company refuses to honor the medical coverage I pay premiums for.
So Pelletizer@25, you are now a Jack Kevorkian acolyte?
@28
Was that comment supposed to make sense? Are any of your comments supposed to make sense?
And do you still have delusions that you’re anything but comic relief to us?
Hey Lee KMBBA!
Here is Charles Lane’s comments which Pelletizer decided to respond to…
“Admittedly, this script is vague and possibly unenforceable. What are “key questions”? Who belongs on “a list” of helpful “resources”? The Roman Catholic Church? Jack Kevorkian?”
We all know it ain’t the Catholic Church based on previous Pelletizer comments!
Make Marijuana UP YOURS!
@21
LOL!
The French system still costs a fraction of ours. In fact, we still pay more in taxes than what the French do, and still another huge part of our costs are through what companies pay to cover their employees.
And your example is some hospital in rural France with some sketchy accounting?
ROTFL!
Moron.
It’s not necessary to make any decisions concerning poodlehead. He’s already been lobotomized and his sentient life is effectively over. He’s a wingnut robot posting on command now. The commands come from voices in his head. His tinfoil hat works like an antenna for picking up the voices.
Pelletizer, Puddy uses tin foil for oven protection from casserole drippings. Puddy loves his casseroles gooey.
It’s also good for grilling chicken when you want to control the cooking.
There will be government insurance to compete with the private carriers. We will eventually crush the private insurance companies simply by offering a better product.
DEATH PANELS! DEATH PANELS! DEATH PANELS!
What could possibly be the explanation for the American people’s positive genius for falling for the most blatant and obvious propaganda? I have a possible theory if you’re interested in hearing it….
We’re idiots.
That could be the only explanation. What other reason could there possibly be? Any takers?
When a contemptible half-wit like Sarah Palin “twits” (an appropriate word) about “death panels” and the next moment it is a serious part on the national conversation – there is really something seriously wrong.
Here is (Excuse me, I meant “was”) a golden opportunity for real reform and the idiotic Americans are screaming about socialism. Is it any wonder that we are the laughingstock of the industrialized world?
http://www.tomdegan.blogspot.com
Tom Degan
Every private insurer has a “panel” that decides what is covered, what isn’t covered, and to what limits. Get out your health insurance schedule of benefits and read how they will let you die.
If only these benefits panls were public and accountable.
[Deleted – see comments #39 and #41]
@37 SJ:
I agree 100% with what you wrote. And I don’t always agree with you. Nicely put.
@37
Folks who misuse the facts to support smoking a carcinogen (marijuana)
You have an hour to provide an example before your comment is deleted.
34. headless: Rat City Runcible Spoon spews:
What’s this WE stuff? WE?? Who is WE??
@38
BTW, I agree wholeheartedly with SJ’s underlying point, that facts are important. The problem is that he has continued to accuse me of distorting the facts, but refuses to provide examples. It’s been explained to him by both Goldy and myself that he’s not allowed to comment in my threads until he stops accusing me of saying things I haven’t said.
He re-posted the comment at #37 from an earlier one that I deleted, only to go from specifically accusing me of being the one to “misuse the facts” to just talking about people in general. If he doesn’t provide an example of someone doing it, I will assume he still means me and will remove his comment.
This is not news to him. He knows the rules and he doesn’t care.
I’m actually kinda sorry the Death Panels were dropped. The competition with the Public Option vis-a-vis the Death Panels and Assisted Suicide folks would have been interesting. Was looking forward to seeing the glossy brochures and TV spots promoting the benefits of being killed.
For more context on why SJ’s comments are being deleted, you can click here.
Marijuana Does Not Raise Lung Cancer Risk
People who smoke marijuana do not appear to be at increased risk for developing lung cancer, new research suggests.
While a clear increase in cancer risk was seen among cigarette smokers in the study, no such association was seen for regular cannabis users.
Even very heavy, long-term marijuana users who had smoked more than 22,000 joints over a lifetime seemed to have no greater risk than infrequent marijuana users or nonusers.
Fox Noise
@44
Oh, the irony. Thanks. :)
SJ,
Any comment you leave in this thread that does not have a link to an instance of me “misusing facts” will be deleted.