What are you doing to help the economy this weekend? I purchased a 472-pack of toilet tissue, meaning the unit price per square is .00002 cents. If you only use one ply, it’s half that! But I will not spare a square, no matter what.
Meanwhile, go read Robert Reich if you wish. Sounds like some actual grownups may be in charge come Jan. 20.
Not to belabor Goldy’s earlier point, but the stupid idea that the netroots will come unglued when competent people take charge is, well, stupid. We’ll express differences of opinion at times but instead of trying to get brain dead people to come back to life via an act of Congress, we’ll simply state our case and work to elect people who we think will do a good job. It’s called democracy.
Deal, old media and Old Democrats. The netroots isn’t any one thing, it isn’t any one person and it sure in the hell ain’t going away.
Please list in comments how many bits of soap you can squeeze together to make new bits of soap, and how one might take one cranberry and make it multiply a hundred times before Thanksgiving to make “Magical Paulson Cranberry Sauce.”
It looks like Bill Richardson might be secretary of commerce.
Obama’s doing a great job of selecting people that are more pragmatic than ideological and that can hit the ground running. I’m heartened by this, but we and the world are in one heck of a mess and it will be a while before this thing is fixed.
Obama needs the netroots and the rest of us to help him deal with the backstabbing Democrats who damaged Carter and Clinton. Sam Nunn is a prime example and I’m glad that I’m not hearing his name any more as a possible Obama nominee. But Obama will have his hands full defending himself against members of his own Party and we will have to help him when it happens.
Hmmmm – Future Forecast –
No more newspapers, news magazines, news channels – only Netroots using multiple channels of communications to represent their constituents. Kinda follows suit with Goldy’s prediction of what ‘bloggers’ will be like in ten to twenty years.
I just bought two desks at Ikea, although that may help the Swedish economy more than ours.
Anyway, I saw about 50 cops around the Southcenter Mall. Apparently, some jackasses got in a gun fight.
@4
Two people shot, one died.
@3
Did you have to learn to be that stupid or were you born that way?
@5
Michael – This was a very decent look well into the future first mentioned by Goldy in a previous thread. Although it might sound somewhat absurd to you but this is the way to ‘brain storm’. Please desist in your ad hominem attacks and respond to the subjects in this thread.
Thank you!!
@6
I crank one out every now and again, not very often. And I still think you deserved it. ;-)
@7
Well then we will have to agree to disagree. However, attacking an opponent’s character rather than answering his argument only shows that you are ‘cranky’ as you put it. That I will agree on. Please get a good night sleep so you feel better tomorrow.
“So, I have a confession and a suggestion. The confession: I go into restaurants these days, look around at the tables often still crowded with young people, and I have this urge to go from table to table and say: “You don’t know me, but I have to tell you that you shouldn’t be here. You should be saving your money. You should be home eating tuna fish. This financial crisis is so far from over. We are just at the end of the beginning. Please, wrap up that steak in a doggy bag and go home.”
From “We Found the WMD”:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11.....edman.html
@9
I am trying to help the economy and my son and his wife as I just sent them a $1000 dollars. The article in the link is absolutely correct. The “subprime mortgages and all the derivatives attached to them.” are the WMDs that will potentially destroy our economy and put us in a situation worse than the great depression. One of the key items that Thomas Friedman mentions is “If it’s the latter, then we need a huge catalyst of confidence and capital to turn this thing around.” Capital in this case is not printed dollar bills from the U. S. Government as one of the major problems that already exists is our National Debt being over 10 trillion dollars. There is an interesting link at http://zfacts.com/p/318.html showing a graph comparing national debt and GDP by President. Bush has a definite problem.
It is interesting to watch the price of Oil drop. Several months ago I filled up at $4.21/gal. Today I filled up at $1.91/gal. It would be interesting to see how speculators drove up the price of gas to the point of having a complete adverse affect on the world’s economy and how the United States citizens changed their lifestyles. The second piece of information I would like to see is why is the price of Oil now falling so fast and so low.
What is our Government going to do to try to regulate such extremes?
What am I doing to help the economy this weekend? I’m seriously considering buying a Pfaff creative Fabric Mover with Stitch Regulator for my sewing machine. And trust me, they don’t give those babies away. But I have to go down to the sewing machine store and try it out first.
I’ll believe that “the grownups are in charge” when we begin paying for the government we want instead of pretending that it doesn’t cost what it does.
I’ve invested over $100k in opening a new business that created 12 new jobs. This was done without borrowing, since the banks are holding onto their assets with a death grip. If I had more money I’d create more jobs. But I’ve done what I can to help keep our economy going. Everyone one who has the financial assets available should pull the trigger and start that home improvement project they’ve been putting off, replace the worn out appliance they have, or simply hire someone to do some yard work. If you have the means help keep the economy afloat. Sitting on your cash is unpatriotic.
@13…DL…
How about doing without wasteful government instead? That way we won’t have to pay for bloat, pork, and pandering.
I’m convinced that our troubles stem not from a lack of government intervention into private economic transactions, but from too much government mucking about in matters it’s (1) institutionally incaple of and incompetent to address and (2) the resulting disruption of the natural order of things (witness regulators and Congress pushing sub-prime loans) from that mucking about.
Because we’ve become dependent upon the gub’mint check in one form or another, we’ve sold our souls and freedom. Americans are better than that – we must come to grips with the loss of our freedom and dignity by becoming self-reliant, self-sufficient, and self-respecting.
What the country is doing now is running toward more problems, not distancing itself from their root causes.
The Piper
ewp @ 14,
I definitely like the “no debt” part of your plan. People taking on debt they can’t afford to pay is a recipe for disaster for the economy.
I suppose I do my part with spending, but I can’t swing a kitchen re-model or a new car just now.
@16…PI…
How about a new spatula or some floor mats???
The Piper
I reckon my small contribution will be to proceed with reroofing my home. Not as costly as a kitchen remodel but at least it’s something.
Incidently, the roofer has about 20% of the normal workload he usually sees at this time of year.
@18…Steve…
How many blue tarps will you need for your new roof? Lowe’s is having a sale…
The Piper
“Please list in comments … how one might take one cranberry and make it multiply a hundred times before Thanksgiving to make ‘Magical Paulson Cranberry Sauce.'”
Easy, Jon! You borrow a penny from your brother-in-law to buy 1 cranberry, then use that cranberry as collateral to buy 99 more cranberries, then use all 100 cranberries as collateral to buy General Motors. That’s how hedge funds do it.
@8 “However, attacking an opponent’s character rather than answering his argument only shows that you are ‘cranky’ as you put it.”
True enough, but hardly a new concept; I’ve been saying for quite a while that Republicans are nothing but out-of-ideas cranks, and I believe others have mentioned it, as well.
Because we’ve become dependent upon the gub’mint check in one form or another, we’ve sold our souls and freedom. Americans are better than that – we must come to grips with the loss of our freedom and dignity by becoming self-reliant, self-sufficient, and self-respecting.
You ought to talk to the Wasilla-billy about that Pooper. Lots of love there for “Alaskan Infrastructure” paid for by federal “gubmint checks”.
Oh and the Wasilla beauty queen does know how to tax the State’s largest industry to hand out checks to everyone and buy her approval numbers. The gettin’ was indeed good for a little while at least. Now Alaskans will have to either tighten the belt or fuel their Suburbans and Piper Cubs through some other means.
Yes indeed bring this all up with her. However, a few winks in your direction from the Mat-Su Barbie will reduce you to the gibbering fool we all here know you to be.
I’m keeping the entire financial system solvent by buying stocks at 70% to 95% discounts. Hey, okay, so this stuff is so cheap it’s almost free, so what?! The 5 cents on the dollar that I pay overleveraged fools for their ex-assets keeps them — and by extension the global economy — from going under! I’m saving the world and furthermore it ain’t my fault they were borrowers instead of savers. What this planet needs is fewer stupid humans and more thrifty rabbits. Because rabbits consume only renewables, it would last forever if Mother Nature replaced humans with rabbits!
@23 Well I guess it depends on whether your gub’mint check comes with strings. Mine don’t. Since I paid for my pension and social security out of my wages, it’s my money and no one can put conditions on it or tell me what to do with it. I spend as little of it as possible and hoard as much as I can, because I don’t trust Republicans. You always end up with Inflation whenever Republicans get in.
Great. The economic policies of the 2nd Carter term with the ethics of the 3rd Clinton term. Peachy.
@23
Moron – there’s a difference between shared oil royalties, i.e. the Alaska Permanent Fund, and government entitlements paid out of tax revenues, such as social security, welfare, etc.
It’s Distribution vs. RE-distribution.
27 – What was the industry’s response?
Higher taxation means less incentive to develop riskier gas and oil plays.
And that means higher oil and gas prices for everyone.
Why not tax to just fund basic government services for which there’s a general consensus? Why pass checks out to everybody?
Rank REPUBLICAN hypocrisy.
MORON.
@3 me,what did goldy forcast bloggers will look like in the future? sorry, i’m new here.
@9 djoie, don’t tell people to eat tuna. it’s loaded with mercury. and ramen has msg. so what to eat? beans!
What am i doing to help the economy this weekend? I bought a six pack last night at the corner store and i bought a fifty cent flocked santa clause at goodwill yesterday. That’s it. I lost my job 4 weeks ago so my wallet is staying closed tight. My entertainment is free. Walking around town, taking photographs, blogging, and talking to friends. give thanks.
Hey, Alaskan coffers are full of oil money?
Why not build bridges to nowhere with that money?
Why have Uncle Ted shake down the “gubmint” for earmarks?
Why cut checks to everyone? You don’t want to foster “dependence” do you?
More REPUBLICAN hypocrisy.
trade the cranberry for a grape, the grape for a pickle, the pickle for a half a ham sandwich, etc until you have something worth 100 cranberries. that’s what i’d do.
I wonder if any pollster is still tracking the extent of the gut-wrenching response people have developed for the word REPUBLICAN.
I guess it can generally measured by the extent Limbaugh-loving politicians hide behind fig leafs like “GOP Party” and such.
“Gregoire says budget deficit could reach $6 billion”
From: http://www.theolympian.com/sta.....71181.html
This is actually 20% higher than the $5 billion figure that was highlighted in the Times and PI just days ago.
Budget analysts, of course, are projecting by the seat of their pants: the $5 billion projected deficit is up 56% from the one provided just two months ago.
“Citigroup Saw No Red Flags Even as It Made Bolder Bets”
“The bank’s downfall was years in the making and involved many in its hierarchy, particularly Mr. Prince and Robert E. Rubin, an influential director and senior adviser.
“Citigroup insiders and analysts say that Mr. Prince and Mr. Rubin played pivotal roles in the bank’s current woes, by drafting and blessing a strategy that involved taking greater trading risks to expand its business and reap higher profits. Mr. Prince and Mr. Rubin both declined to comment for this article.
“When he was Treasury secretary during the Clinton administration, Mr. Rubin helped loosen Depression-era banking regulations that made the creation of Citigroup possible by allowing banks to expand far beyond their traditional role as lenders and permitting them to profit from a variety of financial activities. During the same period he helped beat back tighter oversight of exotic financial products, a development he had previously said he was helpless to prevent.”
From: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11.....ti.html?hp
Jon D – you’re overly-gloomy. Several sectors of the economy are strong (services is bigger than ever, and expanding). Construction spending here will be huge. On that note we could make the investments in funded projects sooner, and locking in costs now will look like genius five years from now. Lots of reasons to get going on the infrastructure work sooner rather than later – the public spoke and said it wants action, Scott Carson says complete the funded works projects ASAP, and the local economy could use a several billion dollar kick in its fiscal pants. Plus we could tap another fiscal well: a reasonable income tax on corporations and individuals. Rich anti-transit shitstains like Kemper Freeman, Baerwaldt, and Padelford need to start paying their fair share.
I bought a new Escalade and will make the payment with my unemployment check and since
I knew I was going to get laid off suddenly
my back started hurting so I’ll get State
industrial too. I might as well live like
a democrat since we can’t beat you at the polls. This will give me time to work on my golf game and maybe start drinking more. Does
anyone know where you sign up for free housing?
Also can someone provide me with free internet?
@33 You’re talking about the budget surplus
right? Gregoire said there was no deficit and
we know she wouldn’t lie. What a stupid CUNT.
@15:
Piper says:
hahaha – what you fail to understand Piper or fail to recognize is that:
1. Deregulation of the banking inudstry is what led to this mess. Notice that after the Phil Gramm bill in 2000, banks were free to repackage loans and sell debt. european banks can’t do this – they were hurt by OUR crisis – but it was our ponzu scheme banks and the deregulation that did this.
2. the government NEVER pushed subprime loans – that was the banks that could resell those loans and not take any responsiblity for insuring that they would be payed pack.
3. The republicans are in favor of earmarks:
What a stupid CUNT.
Another pearl of wisdom from our Stormfront.org friend who brought “mud people” and “jigaboo” to HA.org comment threads.
Give it up fool.
@29
From Goldy
“This movement we’re part of will take a decade or two to reach full fruition, and we are a lot more patient and pragmatic than most outside observers give us credit for.”
I only presented an extreme possible scenario at @3
Jon D – you’re overly-gloomy
———————
The projections and language are coming from the state and Gregoire. Things could get better I suppose . . . or things could get worse. Thus far things have only gotten worse, based on state data.
There are an awful lot of unknowns right now, including our banking system and auto industry, that could result in many more severe problems. Citi’s rapid – and shocking – market swoon is a good example.
@39 Glad I could irritate you. Are you a cunt?
@26 Anything is an improvement compared to you guys. Your organ grinder monkey will go down in history as Hoover II.
@27 Look like dummy del’s new diatribe is that social security is “welfare.” So, according to dummy del, people who get SS checks after paying into the system for 40 years or more are welfare bums. On the other hand, the Wall Street sharks who wanted to take money out of Social Security and put it in their own pockets are “entrepreneurs” who “create jobs.” No wonder Republicans lost all their credibility and ended up scratching each other’s balls with no one else paying any attention to them.
If turkey sales plummet because of that Palin video, and the resulting crash in turkey futures brings down what’s left of the financial system, the next Great Depression will be Palin’s fault.
Give a person a cranberry, and they’ll be happy for a day.
Teach them how to plant cranberries and they’ll be miserable for the rest of their lives.
John (I refuse to spell your name the pretentious, aren’t I special, way), you aren’t helping the economy by getting a bargain on bulk TP, you’re helping yourself. If you wanted to really wanted to help the economy, you would have bought the same amount, but in smaller packs, spread out over a period of weeks and months using multiple purchases.
@36 I look forward to you living like a Democrat, mark! Report back to us in 6 months on how your golf game is going.
@37 There is no deficit. Washington has never had a deficit, and doesn’t have a deficit now. Anyone who says differently is a liar.
42 – LMAO!!! You amuse me with your stupidity.
@46 The best policy is avoid cranberry addictions in the first place.
Talking about the future…
Look out, here comes India!
http://www.edmontonsun.com/Com.....1-sun.html
Portents of a multi-polar world. Obama’s election comes just in time.
Neo-con crybabies are soiling their diapers.
@47 Do you have a problem with self interest-based economic behavior? What are you, a fucking communist? Sounds like it.
@47
John was bragging about doing his part to the economy. I merely pointed out that if that was really his intention, he should have bought the TP a different way.
troll- give us some more of your “some say” BS. Your lies are transparent and amusing.
Tell us how you moderate this blog and were there from the beginning.
@34: Except that is factually incorrect – the major bank deregulation was slipped into a budget bill in 2000 by Phil Gramm. That bill allowed banks to trade and bundle loans – and that is what precipitated the subprime crisis and bank failues. Rubin was already at citigroup in 1999.
Of course, Phil Gramm was the major proponent of deregulation and led the republican charge for it – and then became the chief economic advisor to McCain. He is also known for his statement about how the economy was fine and that the only problem was that the American people were whiners.
55 – Some people say Troll is a right wing idiot.
I went shopping at Wallmart, the business model for the future, and the only retailer to survive Black Friday.
How’s all those state unions and UAW unions doing these days?
Go Walmart! F Unions!
@ 12. Hey, Emily, my wife doesn’t sew, and ever since my mother-in-law had a debilitating stroke, I’m reluctant to rely on her.
Sew…I mean so, can I hire you to do my alterations/repair work? Anyone who is willing to buck up for a “Pfaff creative Fabric Mover with Stitch Regulator”, whatever that is, must be pretty good.
Also, I need some pillows for a red leather sofa, and haven’t had any luck. If I find some fabric, can I hire you to make me some pillows?
Also, I have this suede sport jacket, that has a rip, and is missing a button. Can you help, or tell me where to take it?
Think of all the great economic activity we generate.
Gregoire is incompetent or a liar…neither one is good.
Watch for her “Ugly” Budget…aka EXTORTION/CON JOB, trying to get voters to pass a massive tax increase.
This is ALL on the Washington Democrats and typical of a tax-and-spend mentality.
VOTE HELL NO on any Washington State Tax Increase.
Mr C.- so tell me which states are doing well right now, in the teeth of the Bush Resession.
Cynical is an idiot. When a real incompetent and liar like Bush is at it – he sides with Bush.
According to the latest survey, the three best states economically, houseprice wise and overall are:
NC
WA
TX
WA was also voted one of the best run states. But cynicals opinion is beeter than facts. Heck, that is why McCain won….ooops.
Cynical is an idiot. When a real incompetent and liar like Bush is at it – he sides with Bush.
According to the latest survey, the three best states economically, houseprice wise and overall are:
NC
WA
TX
WA was also voted one of the best run states. But cynicals opinion is better than facts. Heck, that is why McCain won….ooops.
According to the latest survey, the three best states economically, houseprice wise and overall are:
NC
WA
TX
WA was also voted one of the best run states. But cynicals opinion is better than facts.
———–
Can you provide references for the survey and vote?
Sorry Cyn, most of like the department of ecology just fine.
63 No kidding.
I was going to point out that what Reich states in his recent post covers half of what’s needed. We do indeed need people running things who are competent. We also need them to be honest.
Not that we’ve had either for the last eight years.
We traipsed out to Sears today and did our bit to help prop up the economy after our 18-year-old water heater busted its guts right before Thanksgiving, with out-of-town house guests on the way.
We’d actually hoped to nurse the old dear along for another year or two and put in some kind of partial-solar system when we redid the roof, but that’s the breaks, I guess.
Sure John B:
Forbes best states for business:
http://www.forbes.com/2008/07/.....table.html
Pew: Grading the states:
Real estate:
The survey of more than 2,500 real-estate agents also identified the three most resilient markets in the nation for selling homes.
“If we had to pick three states in the country that are large states and where property prices really haven’t declined very much and employment has held up, the three states that would fit that criteria would be Texas, North Carolina and Washington state,” Popik said.
Some practical things people can do, and SHOULD be doing anyway, tough times or not:
1) If possible, don’t own cars. Take public transit. If you must own a car, drive something older (and 100% paid off) and fuel efficient.
2) Don’t make unnecessary trips. Ride a bike to the store and for trips close to home.
3) Never eat out, or go out for drinks. And if you must eat meat, buy a huge pack of sirloin at Costco or the pack of fryer chickens. Shop at produce stands, Trader Joe’s, or Costco, but only for food.
4) Cancel all gym memberships. Go jogging around your neighborhood and do push ups at home instead.
5) Never go to sporting events that can be seen on TV……for free.
6) Never buy clothes from Nortdstrom, Macy’s, or any other high margin retailer. Instead, go to Costco……they have cheap and decent clothes.
7) For entertainment, rent movies, go for walks, or any other venue or event that is free.
8) Don’t pay for internet access. Most of you probably have it at work for free. If possible, camp off your neighbors signal at home.
Just a few examples…….anyone care to add theirs?
I’m doing nothing to stimulate the economy. I’m too in debt. Once I pay it off in 3-5 years, then I’ll start. Guess my part of the Economic Surge(TM) will have to wait till then.
However, I don’t care HOW bad it gets, I will NOT spend my money at Walmart.
@70 If possible, camp off your neighbors signal at home.
———–
Which means you’d be using an unsecured network for your sensitive transactions such as accessing bank accounts or making online payments.
The shitty economy looks like the ultimate argument against “fixing” Social Security. It also makes the whole 401k bit look like one more Wall Street/rich man’s plot to rob the rest of us.
71 “I’m doing nothing to stimulate the economy. I’m too in debt.”
Well…then you are…because all your debt is still being scooped up, packaged into derivatives and bought and sold, valued no doubt on the basis of the maximum potential interest they can stick you for if you miss a payment or two or break some of the rules in those “disclosures” they sent you in such fine print you’d need an electron microscope to read them.
Mind you, lately the economy’s reaction to all this “stimulus” has been projectile vomiting and agonal seizures, but rest assured, you’ve done your part.
73 No shit, Sherlock.
No way, after I dig myself out of this hole, I’m going to pay cash for the rest of my life. I’m financing nothing except for my home. The credit industry is not going not get another dime from me.
I’m done with Reagen economics. No more borrowing to maintain the unsustainable lifestyle I thought I wanted to have.
It’s sobering and liberating to have to accept lower standard of living, and live within my means.
Blue John,
Check out “The Dave Ramsey Show” on Fox Business Channel. He’s another “no debt is good debt” kind of guy. He makes a lot of sense. Borrowing money to be stylish and trendy is just plain dumb. People get underwater in debt for the stupidest of reasons. Sometimes it takes some sobering-up to realize that trying to live on borrowed money is a losing lifestyle.
@77:
I am a conservative with money. I hate paying interest on anything except a long-term home loan at a low fixed rate (locked in at 4.65 at the trough abvout 5 years back).
Still for the last 4 years I must have thrown away thousands of offers for short term (adjustable or balloon) rates at lower interest. I just never trusted them and I never trusted the financial prognosticators who claimed houses would ALWAYS go up – they don’t and I never bought their arguments.
Yes, my house is worth less on paper now – but I have had it for over 10 yearss and re-fied 5 years ago. So the decrease is just a paper loss for me.
Just the same I am a conservative with my tax money. I was pretty upset about my tax dollars going to a needless war in Iraq. I don’t really like the bailout of the banks and investrment companies. My government (Bush) is rewarding bad management with the “too big to fail” mantra. On the other hand, I don’t want the entire economy to collapse either.
But the bushies and the McCain’s who kept telling the economy was sound were completely and utterly WRONG. The economy was built on mountains of debt and the lack of transparency covered that up. We need MORE and Better regulation so this NEVER happens again. I beleive in personal and corporate responsibility and more of the same “free market” irresponsibility ain’t gonna cut it.
CnR, didn’t you mean a ‘Ponzi scheme’? Wikipedia’s articles on such schemes, and the man who’s credited with popularizing them, Charles Ponzi, are quite fascinating.
BTW, ponzu is a citrus-based sauce used in Japanese cuisine.