Last week, in retaliation for Sen. Maria Cantwell’s proposed amendment to remove ANWR drilling from the Senate budget bill (it barely failed), Alaska Sen. Ted Stevens proposed lifting the 30-year old Magnuson Amendment that limits supertanker traffic in the Puget Sound. Sen. Cantwell responded with a clearly worded letter to Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist:
Mr. Majority Leader, this is a state specific issue, and I have heard loud and clear from my constituents that they strongly oppose any efforts to overturn or erode this critical protection. Therefore, if any attempt is made to move forward on S.1977, I will use every procedural option granted to me as a United States Senator to stop this unfortunate and misguided legislation from becoming law.
“Every procedural option”… that means filibuster.
It’s not clear exactly how this will play out, through it’s hard to see Stevens pushing though such an unpopular amendment, especially at this time of oil industry profiteering. Still, Sen. Cantwell is urging you to sign a petition, demanding that Sen. Stevens drop his amendment.
While you’re at it, remind Sen. Stevens that the GOP won’t hold the Senate forever, and what goes around, comes around.
Hmmmm…Alaska is big and empty—maybe we can suggest to Senator Stevens that some chunk of Alaska should become a nuclear waste site.
Yes, maybe Cantwell should propose a bill to move all the nuke waste from Hanford north!
This asshole Stevens is old and will die off soon enough. Maybe we will be able to get Alaskans to elect a senator who is from this planet!
by Goldy, 11/14/2005, 2:52 PM
Over an hour and no comment by Roger Rabbit? I do believe in miracles!
While I agree with Cantwell’s sentiment and think that Stevens’s position is a really bad idea, I wish the Senate would get rid of the “procedural filibuster”. I think there would be much less talk of using the filibuster if Senators knew they’d have to maintain debate 24/7.
If Republicans want any chance to pick up Cantwell’s Senate seat, they’ll get Stevens to back down before this comes to a filibuster.
As an aside, can’t the State of Washington forbid supertankers in Puget Sound? Seems like our legislature could eliminate the need for Cantwell doing anything here by passing this type of legistlation. I’m sure Gov. Gregoire would sign it.
As an aside, can’t the State of Washington forbid supertankers in Puget Sound? Seems like our legislature could eliminate the need for Cantwell doing anything here by passing this type of legistlation. I’m sure Gov. Gregoire would sign it.
I doubt it. Seems to be right up the alley of the interstate commerce clause. Whatever Washington state came up with would be trumped by anything Congress passed.
The Feds have jurisdiciton over the big waterways, and interstate commerce, that sort of thing.
It should be noted that the late great Sen. Warren Magnuson last great achievement was the keeping of giganto-tankers out of Puget Sound. He was a business friendly fellow, but he would not comprimise quality of life. Sen. Stevens has always wanted tankers here, ans said that not a drop of oil would enter the Sound. Ofcourse he was wrong in Prince Edward Sound. If an oil spill like that hits Puget Sound, it’s lights out, game over.
Goldy @ 5:
Maybe Roger took his meds and went home.
The Doctor @ 6
Tell me about your mother..
Fillibusters are a waste of time and should be ruled out as an option…no matter who does it or threatens to!
While I agree with C-First @ 3 that the “procedural filibuster” should be eliminated (I’d rather tune in to watch a bleary-eyed politician reading a cookbook), Cantwell should to anything required to keep those tankers out.
The GOP should also give a sharp tug on the leash to Stevens. It is a lose/lose issue for the GOP. If he doesn’t quickly and quietly withdraw, the results are:
1. WA loses, gets tankers here and the locals are even more ticked off at the GOP
2. Cantwell wins a public fight and the GOP’s chances to win the WA seat are damaged because voters will only remember that she did something recently (as opposed to sleeping at her desk ever since she was elected).
C-First @ 3: “Over an hour and no comment by Roger Rabbit?”
Just wait… he’ll come crashing & stumbling through the door like Lenny & Squiggy from the old Laverne & Shirley show.
How did Slick Maria payoff her campaign debt anyhow?
No oil companies should be allowed to operate in the state of WASH. They are evil. No gas or heating oil that produces global warming!! No tankers, no refineries, and no evil gas stations!! [hehe]
righton @ 11 …. that aside, do you WANT oil tankers in the Sound? Hmmm? I know I don’t. What we need to do is stop that multi-million dollar bridge to nowhere they are building in Alaska…
Oil spills are certainly an emotion-laden topic that invites knee-jerk responses. I’m not in favor of allowing supertankers in Puget Sound, at least, not the single-hull variety. But let’s keep things in perspective. Ground seeps and other natural oil spills existed millions of years before man came along, but the planet thrived anyway. Nature not only is capable of cleaning up the oil and repairing the damage to ecosystems and wildlife by itself, but compared to geologic time, does so in nothing flat. Finally, statistics show that surface water runoff causes three times as much oil pollution as tanker spills. So, if we’re serious about protecting Puget Sound, we need to worry about parking lots, roadways, and what gets into drainpipes and sewers because that’s the main pollution threat to Puget Sound’s ecosystem. Having said all this, I’m not in favor of allowing supertankers in Puget Sound, at least not the single-hull variety. Why go looking for trouble? Oil tankers are allowed to use Puget Sound now, so the only difference allowing supertankers would make is a few bucks more profit for the oil companies.
I am really tired of the Republicans running roughshod across the Nation I spent so many years defending! I NEVER thought I would see the President asking Congress for permission to TORTURE people! Bushy is bound and determined to turn this into a third world country! And if they
… cont from 14 And if they allow tankers in the Sound, I will be out there blocking them!
Rabbit – Natures ability to clean up messes has nothing to do with this topic. It appears your argument is that a double hulled tanker is fool proof. Haven’t seen anything made by man that is fool proof. And just because we have runoff polution, doesn’t mean we should allow MORE pollution. We can work on stopping the runoff polution. Furthermore, I am not advocating a NIMBY attitude. There are lots of acceptable alternatives to allowing tankers in, for instance, off shore unloading.
Cont from 16 – It take 300 years to recycle the water in Puget Sound. I don’t know about you, but I wouldn’t be around long enough to see Nature fix whatever we did to it…
fire @ 15
And I’m sure the oil companies will hire the French to “take care” of you.
The D’s better pick their targets, more bang may come out of fighting the Supreme Court nominee, how many Senators care about Puget Sound?
Mark @ 18 ? I’m sure that was supposed to be humorous, just can’t see it… And what are YOUR thoughts on allowing tankers in the Sound? Or are you just too busy thinking up clever quips…
Of course I didn’t know. How could I?
Did you know that 47 countries have reestablished their embassies in
Iraq?
Did you know that the Iraqi government currently employs 1.2 million
Iraqi people?
Did you know that 3100 schools have been renovated, 364 schools are under
rehabilitation, 263 schools are now under construction and 38 new schools
have been built in Iraq?
Did you know that Iraq’s higher educational structure consists of 20
Universities, 46 Institutes or colleges and 4 research centers, all currently
operating?
Did you know that 25 Iraq students departed for the United States in
January 2005 for the re-established Fulbright program?
Did you know that the Iraqi Navy is operational?! They have 5- 100-foot
patrol craft, 34 smaller vessels and a naval infantry regiment.
Did you know that Iraq’s Air Force consists of three operational
squadrons, which includes 9 reconnaissance and 3 US C-130 transport aircraft
(under Iraqi operational control) which operate day and night, and will soon
add 16 UH-1 helicopters and 4 Bell Jet Rangers?
Did you know that Iraq has a counter-terrorist unit and a Commando
Battalion?
Did you know that the Iraqi Police Service has over 55,000 fully trained
and equipped police officers?
Did you know that there are 5 Police Academies in Iraq that produce over
3500 new officers each 8 weeks?
Did you know there are more than 1100 building projects going on in Iraq?
They include 364 schools, 67 public clinics, 15 hospitals, 83 railroad
stations, 22 oil facilities, 93 water facilities and 69 electrical
facilities.
Did you know that 96% of Iraqi children under the age of 5 have received
the first 2 series of polio vaccinations?
Did you know that 4.3 million Iraqi children were enrolled in primary
school by mid October?
Did you know that there are 1,192,000 cell phone subscribers in Iraq and
phone use has gone up 158%?
Did you know that Iraq has an independent media that consists of 75
radio stations, 180 newspapers and 10 television stations?
Did you know that the Baghdad Stock Exchange opened in June of 2004?
Did you know that 2 candidates in the Iraqi presidential election had a
televised debate recently?
OF COURSE WE DIDN’T KNOW!
WHY DIDN’T WE KNOW?
OUR MEDIA WOULDN’T TELL US!
Instead of reflecting our love for our country, we get photos of flag
burning incidents at Abu Ghraib and people throwing snowballs at the
presidential motorcades.
The lack of accentuating the positive in Iraq serves two purposes. It is
intended to undermine the world’s perception of the United States thus
minimizing consequent support, and it is intended to discourage American
citizens.
—- Above facts are verifiable on the Department of Defense web site.
Pravda – I don’t know what that has to do with anything, but isn’t it AMAZING what you can do with 6 BILLION dollars a month…. MORON!
Roger Rabbit@13
Yes we know that you for one dont mind paying more for your gas (9.5 cents to be sure) dont give the oil companies any possible reason to lower the price of gas, just keep it up there and bitch about oil comany profeteering… give not an inch but expect a pound!
chuckie @ 23 “dont give the oil companies any possible reason to lower the price of gas, just keep it up there and bitch about oil comany profeteering”
Uh…WTF? Oil companies are doing a fine job at War profittering! And they don’t need to come into Puget Sound to do more War profitterring.
RR, while nature can clean up after our messes, a major oil spill in the puget sound would be an ecological and economic disaster!
WHy don’t they just fill the bloated bodies of the OIl execs with sweet crude and have them body surf the oil in.
I mean, that’s a compromise we can all live with.
Pravda, did you know that I got thru the 1st paragraph of your post and started laughing at the stupidity.. not to mention the insane length of the stupifity.
Damn, My refutation of Chuckies post and a slap on the wrist to Roger Rabbit has been held up!
Goldy,… this is me posting not PuddyBud!
Misfire @ 21
Obviously, you don’t read the thread before posting. I made my position clear @ 9. To restate:
“Cantwell should to anything required to keep those tankers out.”
As for not understanding my clever quip about you blocking tankers, you apparently forgot or weren’t aware of what the French did to the Greenpeace Rainbow Warrior back in 1985.
There now is a “medical” diagnosis for the psychosis that afflicts so many here on HA. But smile FiroOne, Donna nd others, perhaps you’ll be able to get goverment “disability” payments.
The number of things that Bush has been blamed for in this world since 9/11 (even acts of God like Tsunamis, hurricanes and other natural disasters) is the stuff of major comedy. You name the horrible event, and he is identified as the etiologic agent.
He is blamed when he does something (anything) and he is blamed when he does nothing. He is blamed for things that ocurred even before he was President, as well as everything that has happened since. He is blamed for things he says; and for things he doesn’t say.
What makes Bush Hatred completely insane however, is the almost delusional degree of unremitting certitude of Bush’s evil; while simultaneously believing that the TRUE perpetrators of evil in the world are somehow good and decent human beings with the world’s intersts at heart.
This psychological defense mechanism is referred to as “displacement”.
One way you can usually tell that an individual is using displacement is that the emotion being displaced (e.g., anger) is all out of proportion to the reality of the situation. The purpose of displacement is to avoid having to cope with the actual reality. Instead, by using displacement, an individual is able to still experience his or her anger, but it is directed at a less threatening target than the real cause. In this way, the individual does not have to be responsible for the consequences of his/her anger and feels more safe–even thought that is not the case.
This explains the remarkable and sometimes lunatic appeasement of Islamofascists by so many governments and around the world, while they trash the US and particularly Bush. It explains why there is more emphasis on protecting the “rights” of terrorists, rather than holding them accountable for their actions (thier actions, by the way are also Bush’s fault, according to those in the throes of BDS). Our soldiers in Iraq are being killed because of Bush–not because of terrorist intent and behavior. Terrorist activity itself is blamed on Bush no matter where it occurs.
It isn’t even a stretch of the imagination for some to blame 9/11 on Bush. This is the insane “logic” of most psychological defense mechanisms. They temporarily spare you from the painful reality around you and give you the illusion that you are still in control.
This is exactly the illusion/delusion circulating in the minds of many of the Bush Haters. They want desperately to forget that there is a tidal wave of terror reverberating around the world and to pretend that everything is America’s and Bush’s fault. If that is true, then they will still be in control of events.
So what do they do? They lionize terrorists like Zarqawi (“freedom-fighters”). They explain away the horror and brutality by refering to them as “insurgents” and “militants”. They support Palestinian suicide bombings as justified and see the Palestinians–not as independent agents acting of choice, but as victims of America and Israel.
They sincerely believe that Osama is a reasonable person and seek dialog with him; but that Bush is not. They threaten violence toward Bush and hold demonstrations; and placate and enable those who would implement Sharia Law in their country without a qualm. Hundreds of their fellow countrymen are murdered by terrorists, but they demand that troops be pulled out of Iraq (thinking that if they hadn’t cooperated with the evil BushHitler, their countrymen would have been spared).
Rather than blame the terrorists; rather than admiting they have to take action against them; their fear is transformed to anger and displaced onto President Bush. If everything is his fault, then the reality of what happened does not have to be faced (this also explains the intense psychological denial that these same individuals tend to have about 9/11).
Bush becomes the “criminal mastermind”, so devious, so evil, that everything he says is a “lie”, everything he does is part of a vast global consipiracy. His family has intimate ties to Bin Laden and the Saudis; He is trying to enrich his oil business friends; He is trying to avenge the insult to his father by getting rid of Saddam; He plans world domination etc. etc. I could go on an on, but you get the point.
What is most funny is that these psychologically naiive individuals simultaneously think of Bush as this “criminal mastermind”–a genius of evil; and also as a complete moron who isn’t capable of uttering a sentence without making a hash of it; or that his brain is controlled by the equally evil Karl Rove.
The cognitive dissonance required to have all these contradictory beliefs swirling around in one’s brain is astonishing. But besides the primary function it serves to erase from consciousness what is happening in the world today, it is serving a secondary purpose–it makes them feel in control of what might come.
They can predict with the complete accuracy of the delusional mind that whatever happens–whatever horror is unleased by Al Qaeda or Hamas or Islamic Jihad–was caused by President Bush’s actions/inactions/intentions (take your pick).
They can conduct a brave protest march against the evil Bush…but clearly they don’t dare protest real terror or terrorist acts the way that the Jordanians or the Lebanese did, for example. The terrorists are simply poor, misunderstood individuals who have been oppressed by…Bush. Get rid of Bush (or America; or Israel) and voila! Problem solved!
It would be a foolproof defense against the threat, except…except…if it weren’t for … reality. It would be foolproof, except that the REAL horror; the REAL evil will just not go away. The REAL evil just gets bolder and more aggressive. Like the Nazis in the last century, the REAL evil will not be appeased, and is aware of this psychological weakness inherent in their enemies. In fact, they count on it – because by exploiting it is the only way the terrorists can win.
As I said at the beginning of this piece, those who are mindful and deliberate in their attacks and are using them for personal political gain; or to advance a totalitarian agenda are simply evil. But there are many people who normally have some degreee of goodwill and sense. Those are the people I am trying to wake up. Think and ask yourselves– what you are doing? Look around at what is going on in the world.
It is not Bush who is lopping off the heads of schoolgirls in Indonesia. It is not Karl Rove who is exhorting mindless minions to explode at wedding parties in Jordan. It is not Bush’s policies that have induced immigrant Muslims to riot in France.
It is the cold-hearted ruthlessness of a fanatical ideology that intends to wipe our civilization off the map. It will not be appeased, and the more you feed it with appeasement, the stronger and bolder it gets. Please note, that since 9/11 there have not been any direct attacks on the U.S. homeland. They have settled for smaller “hit and run” targets of opportunity. Why? Because they rightly fear what we might do if another attack occurred (and besides, they have the MSM and the Left to wage their attacks on the homeland).
This is not to say that such attacks might not occur when the enemy has the sense that America will never fight back. There are many who give them that assurance daily.
As a psychiatrist I work with patients who use maladaptive psychological defenses all the time. The goal of treatment is to help them develop insight and self awareness and begin to take responsibility for their own lives and actions; and to face reality–no matter how painful or unpleasant–not to close their eyes and hope and wish it will go away.
In other words, to act like mature adults and deal with it.
As long as they focus all their energy on hating Bush and act like the whiny petulant and angry child, who expects daddy to instantaneously make everything better– or else they won’t like it; then they don’t ever have to act like mature adults and cope with reality in a mature fashion. It is soooo much easier to blame everything on daddy.
@ 27 Oops missed on both counts. But since when did you embrace the Democratic agenda?
Comment by Another TJ— 11/14/05 @ 4:30 pm
“I doubt it. Seems to be right up the alley of the interstate commerce clause.”
After doing some further research, it seems the Magnuson Amendment was to prevent the state from allowing supertankers to come to Cherry Point.
http://www.historylink.org/ess.....le_id=5620
Fire @ 29
Embrace the Democratic
Master PlanAgenda?Did I mention that the image of the sunken ship brings a smile to my face? (except for the unintentional drowned guy part) ;)
Fire @ 29
Seriously, though… That is exactly what is wrong with the Left. You guys can’t seem to fathom the idea of being in a political party, but not agreeing with every single plank of the platform.
I am absolutely for protecting the environment by all reasonable means. Supertankers in the Sound? No way. Dumping chemicals or waste into rivers and whatnot? No way. Cutting down way more trees than are needed for a house or building? Tsk, tsk. BUT… I disagree with requiring a private landowner to build a FIFTY FOOT LONG bridge (for private use) when all they wanted to do was replace an old couple of rotten planks on a makeshift “bridge” that spanned a “creek.” The alleged “logic” was a 25 foot setback of any man-made structure. The old thing was something like a couple of downed logs and some boards and had been there for years.
Mark – I think it is good that you can admit that there is something to be said for something that the Democratic Party has long stood for: the environment. We need more cross overs from the Republican Party to ADMIT when we are right. I do the same, just haven’t found anything recently to agree with in the Republican Party….
Fire @ 33
I’m not a “crossover.” To say that would mean that all of the stereotypes of the parties are accurate — which isn’t true. Taken to the extremes, anyone in the GOP would be a Laissez Faire Capitalist and every Dem would be a Soc**1ist or C**munist.
YOU are not right. The IDEA of reasonable “environmentalism” is right. The idea is not owned by either or any party. If every idea had to “take sides,” you’d have to say that anyone that was pro-defense, pro-business or religious was a Republican or a “crossover.”
Mark – are you arguing that the Democratic Party has NOT long been the party of the environment? Which planet do you live on? I never said the Democrats “own” the idea of environmentalism, only that we “champion” this cause to a much greater extent that the Republicans. Welcome to the “right” side of this argument, anyway…
Fire @ 35
If you are against ab*rti*n, does that automatically make you a Republican or “crossover?” Does being against it make you inherently a bad person?
What about being pro-small-business?
What if you believe in the idea of ownership as a path to success and security?
Perhaps a better observation @ 29 would be one of surprise that there are unexpected areas where (sane) Democrats and Republicans can agree.
After all, I’ve always said I’m a moderate and not beholden to my stated party’s marching orders.
After doing some further research, it seems the Magnuson Amendment was to prevent the state from allowing supertankers to come to Cherry Point.
I see. Thanks for the background. It was before my time (DLR is the first governor I remember).
At any rate, any action by the state would be trumped by national government action, so keeping the current ban at the federal level is the safest bet.
Mark you said:
“You guys can’t seem to fathom the idea of being in a political party, but not agreeing with every single plank of the platform”
Then in your next post said:
“To say that would mean that all of the stereotypes of the parties are accurate – which isn’t true.”
So . . . are stereotypes accurate or not, or are they only accurate when they are about the other guys?
IDGAF @ 28
I started writing this long response to your post… but you know what, I know I am not going to change your mind, and you are not going to change mine. For each one of us, we all have our own filters, and believe what we do thru our own experiences, and what we have learned along the way. I do respect what you have to say, and wish that both groups, both on the right and left would have a more civilized dialogue. Name calling and ‘HATE’ gets us nowhere as a countr.
But I always go back to one question when it comes to our fight against the ‘war on terrorism’ and the Repubs appeal. For some time now, we have come short on the troops needed for the type of warfare that our President has presented this country with. Our recruitment goals have fallen quite short for some time now. If we are to continue to ‘stay the course’ we NEED more troops.
With the last Presidential election, while not overwhelming, there was vote backing our President, to continue in this current war, and how to handle the terrorists. But with the continual shortage of troops, I question where all the people are that supported this war and this President.
And by your statement and feelings, you feel that there is a VERY REAL threat to this country and your livelihood. I don’t know your situation, but whenever I meet someone who believes in this war, and feel they are directly threatened… I wonder why they are not involved in the conflict??
You state – “Like the Nazis in the last century”, so I assume you feel the terrorists are just as much, maybe even more so a threat than the Nazi’s… but why are we not sacrificing as a country for this current war. Individuals are sacrificing, and families are sacrificing, but how are we as a nation sacrificing for this great threat??
I don’t know your situation, and if you don’t mind me asking… if you honestly feel that this country is at threat, and your life, and your friends and families lives are at danger… why are you not serving… and if you can’t serve… are you encouraging all your able friends and family to serve??
Mark – Thanks for the honesty. Perhaps there are other areas where we agree. I believe that asking the Senate for permission to torture prisoners was wrong, even bordering on evil. What is your take on that?
I don’t know your situation, and if you don’t mind me asking… if you honestly feel that this country is at threat, and your life, and your friends and families lives are at danger… why are you not serving… and if you can’t serve… are you encouraging all your able friends and family to serve??
Comment by JJ— 11/14/05 @ 8:13 pm
JJ thanks for your point of view, for I’m one who is still serveing this country in uniform. I don’t have respect for those who say they supporrt the Troops and allow other folks to block our recuiting efforts in our Schools. The price for freedom should bet shared by everyone includeing those who can’t wear this Nation Uniforms. John F Kennedy had made the best statement about this subject. “Ask not what your Country can do for you, but ask what can you do for your Country. As for Mrs. Cantwell, she lives by the motto “NIMBY” which is not a proper solution. Thanks Folks for the Great support.
klake @ 41.
I applaud your service and your committment to this country, for that I thank you.
I also believe that we should be able to recruit in our High Schools… but that should involve portraying the whole truth… that serving for your country possibly involves giving of your life, especially in our current situation. No glossy video game representation of military service. That we are in a horrible war, with death and killing involved… that is the truth.
I was lucky when I joined the AF, and had a honest and truthful recruiter. But to many times we see deception and lying, just to get a quota.
If you believe in the service, and the war…. be honest. It is not only honorable to serve for this great country, but a brave act… lets not tarnish that with false promises to our young men and women who choose this path.
ID(IOT)GAF:
What is this? Some cut and paste bullshit? After the election you decide to crawl out from under your rock? Who needs you? Who needs shining examples of your “sanity” like David Irons?
Fuck you asshole! If you’re so freaking smart, why don’t you just shrug and hang out with your fellow “sane” people at (un)SoundPolitics.com? Just go quietly about your business and save the world from us deluded people. But no you come here and rant, hurl insults and act all belligerent. You’re not fooling anybody.
It is the beginning of the end for your idiot hero Bush who by the way is an alcoholic and a dope fiend, hardly a shining example of sanity. He will go down in history as the worst President this country has ever had.
IDGAF and the other cut-n-paste jobs on this thread suck – they are just trolling thread hijackers. I wish they’d realize there is this thing called “Google” that can easily find these cut-n-paste jobs.
(http://www.drsanity.blogspot.com/)
I wonder why IDGAF doesn’t post something about the negative psychological effects of the child-like, unquestioning hero workship of George W. Bush?
43. For the Clueless
“ID(IOT)GAF:
What is this? Some cut and paste bullshit? After the election you decide to crawl out from under your rock? Who needs you? Who needs shining examples of your “sanity” like David Irons?
Fuck you asshole! If you’re so freaking smart, why don’t you just shrug and hang out with your fellow “sane” people at (un)SoundPolitics.com? Just go quietly about your business and save the world from us deluded people. But no you come here and rant, hurl insults and act all belligerent. You’re not fooling anybody.
It is the beginning of the end for your idiot hero Bush who by the way is an alcoholic and a dope fiend, hardly a shining example of sanity. He will go down in history as the worst President this country has ever had.”
Really, how does help in getting your ideas and message across. Do you really think that this is going to make him think.
How does name calling make anyone consider the other side/opinion.
If he is the one acting ‘billigerent’… then why not step up and be better than that… offer him ideas, and diffuse his opinion and sway him with reasoning and sound arguments…
Instead of name calling.
Reply to 17
Did I say double hull tankers are foolproof? No, I didn’t say that. You can break ANY hull, if you drive it fast enough into rocks, aground, or another ship. I don’t favor supertankers in Puget Sound for all the usual reasons. However, I think the public attention focused on tanker spills (which account for about 12% of all oil spills) tends to distract people from the larger pollution threats. Runoff is a HUGE issue, and a difficult one to solve. Should Puget Sound be protected? Absolutely! But keeping supertankers out of the Sound is not the end of our work. There is much, much else needing to be done. Puget Sound has way more ecological issues than oil tankers, sewage, or other pollution. For example, bulkheads and erosion have adversely impacted nearshore habitats to the detriment of fish, shellfish, and wildlife.
Cheesy Chuckie @24
Yes Chuckie, we all know you would gladly throw away Puget Sound to save a penny per gallon on gas. You Republifucks don’t give a damn about the environment. This can readily be seen by anyone driving past your trailer park.
JJ @ 45
You obviously don’t know IDGAF’s posting history. Do you know what those letters stand for?
He’s not going to be swayed by anything. I know my post doesn’t look good to a newcomer here but believe me it is appropriate.
This guy is a nasty piece of work.
JJ @ 44 and elsewhere
That kind of discussion & commentary is a breath of fresh air on here. Definitely worthwhile to read your posts. Thanks for the contribution.
bill @ 38
Sorry to be unclear in my post. What I mean by “you guys” was (apparently wrongly) lumping “fire_one” in with Roger Rabbit and the other blind partisans on this site. I know plenty of Dems who disagree with their own party and/or see “good” in the GOP. Personally, I wish EVERYONE could debate issues instead of finding 15 different ways to mangle the word “Republican.” If you guys (the blind partisans) want to attack the Right, at least be accurate and attack the Far Right and leave us moderates out of it!
IDGAF post is a cut and paste from the another blog. Same as the “47 Embassies in Iraq post”. Yawn. I wish people would realize the probablility their comment will be read is inversely proportional to the amount of text they type or cut and paste into a comment block!
For the Clueless @ JJ
Yeah, I am a newbie.. and don’t know IDGAF history… but it sounds as if he not going to be swayed… but instead of caving in to his ranting… why not just ignore him?
With people like that, they look to get people all hyped up… its not so much what they are saying, but just to get people upset.
So lets ignore him… or make some constructive criticism… and/or offer a more thoughful approach
Thanks for your insight for a newbie…
Had to figure it out… IDGAF: I don’t Give a …
Learn something new on the internets everyday!
Military hits October recruiting targets
http://www.usatoday.com/news/n.....oals_x.htm
WASHINGTON (AP) — The Army, which missed its recruiting goal for 2005 by a wide margin, got off to a strong start in the new budget year by exceeding its October targets for the active-duty Army as well as the National Guard and Reserve.
The other military services also met their goals for active-duty enlistments in October, the first month of the budget year. The Air National Guard got barely half the recruits it wanted and the Navy Reserve met 89% of its goal.
The Army said it signed up 4,925 for active duty, or 105% of its goal. It was the fifth straight month of meeting or exceeding its goal, following a severe slump last spring that prevented the Army from reaching its full-year goal for 2005.
The Army ended the budget year Sept. 30 with an 8% shortfall — the first since 1999 and the largest in more than two decades
Not everyone agrees with Comment by For the Clueless— 11/14/05 @ 9:22 pm.
fire_one @ 40
I would need to review what was actually requested re: torture. Personally, I think “torture” (depending on your definition of it) should be a last resort — and, in that case, should be left to the “professionals” and not some Army sereant with a rubber hose.
IIRC, one of the more effective means of “torture” used by the KGB was to drug the subject and strap them in a sensory deprivation tank. The subject wakes up and is floating in the dark. They leave him/her in there for a while to panic and let their mind start racing. The KGB then gets someone (persumably with flawless English or whatever the subject’s language is) to say over a hidden speaker that they are God and that the subject is in purgatory. The only way not to go to hell is to confess your “sins.” And, again IIRC, the subject spilled everything they knew.
So, do you consider that torture?
What if the ONLY option at the 11th hour is to torture someone to save lives? You know something will happen in an hour and the ONLY lead you have is the guy/gal in custody.
@53
Nice try at defending torture, Mark. Care to explain how you avoid falling off the slippery slope?
Mark @ 48 … you are a moderate?
Prove it! Explain to the Trolls why extremists like the Bush administration need to be expelled from the Republican party, and brought to trial for the unforgiveable sins to the USA.
You do not need to embrace the progressive viewpoint. You just need to denounce the Neo-Con fascists.
Do that, and I will believe you are a “moderate”.
Mark @ 53 “What if the ONLY option at the 11th hour is to torture someone to save lives?”
When has torture EVER been effective (except in the movies).
Be explicite.
Be precise.
Or shut your fucking fascist mouth!
“And, again IIRC, the subject spilled everything they knew.”
Bullshit. They told their torturer anything they wanted to hear.
And BTW MArk. So would you.
I hope it never happens to you.
Ask John McCain about torture, you sick mother fucker.
Remember the old Cheech and Chong routine from , Big Bambu? C & C are watching an old Nazi WWII movie:
Nazi: “Zey are killing ze girl tonight, old man, you can save her…”
Old Man: ” I can not sign ze papers!”
Nazi: ” And vy cannot you sign ze papers!!!”
Old Man: ” Because you have broken both my hands!!””
Sad to say it, but we’re the torturers now.
IDGAF about IDGAF.
He has no fucking clue what he’s talking about. Ever.
Washington insiders are whispering that Sen. Ted Stevens (R-Alzheimer’s) still thinks Ronald Reagan is President.
LOL PhiK! Sadly, that makes sense.
Roger @ 56
Don’t try throwing around terms like “slippery slope.” It’s out of your depth.
As for “torture,” I’m definitely in favor of picking up impotent, senile bunnies by the ears and… Wet Willie Time! (Hmmm… wonder if Bill said that to Monica???)
Donna @ 57
I don’t have to prove jack to you. If you can’t come up with a good argument to defend your position, it isn’t my problem. Then again, you have the typical Far Lefty attitude — expecting everyone else to clean up your messes and do your work for you.
Donna @ 59
Oh, and you’ve done research on KGB espionage methods? Ever known or even met anybody caught and “interrogated” by them? I have.
@65
“Don’t try throwing around terms like ‘slippery slope.’ It’s out of your depth.”
I agree that rightys are more experienced with slippery slopes. You guys have been sliding down a lot of them lately.
Hey Mark – were you a KGB agent? That certainly would explain your total lack of humanity and morals. Just wondering.
Roger Rabbit@48
No it isnt that we dont care about the enviorment, the difference is instead of looking at the price of fuel and whining about oil company profiteering we look for answers to the problem. We use a hell of a lot of fuel in this state and supertankers are a logical possibility, and no supertankers dont mean oil spill!
RR, wouldn’t it be great if Chuckie boy would move to Alaska and help that senator? That idiot (both) are very happy ‘worshipping’ the crooks and cooks like Reagan and Nixon…..
Comment by Roger Rabbit— 11/14/05 @ 10:04 pm
“Nice try at defending torture, Mark. Care to explain how you avoid falling off the slippery slope?”
Where do you think interrogation ends and torture begins?
If we’re REALLY seeking energy independence and there’s really an energy “shortage” why wouldn’t we be drilling in ANWR or off the coast or anywhere else that one could find energy?? Typical liberal democrat who’s more responsible for the high price of fuel/energy by keeping it hard to get. Supertankers hauling valuable oil products to consumers in and around Puget Sound?? In this day of modern ships and aids to navigation I say WHY NOT???
And while they’re at it, how about a couple of new refineries around here too??
re 71 & 72: There’s no “energy shortage” doofus. We’re running out of oil and doing precious little to develop alternative energy shortages. If we’d kept up with the solar development begun under Carter ( and gutted under that idiot, Reagan ), we’d be OK. But you know what: Once everyone has their own solar how are the powers that be going to make them pay their greedy “private” asses for using the sun’s energy. They can’t! That’s why the tax break for installing solar was undone by that corporate shill Ronald Reagan and the solar panels installed on the White House torn out at the request of the “Old Boraxo Pitchman” and G.E. Shill, Ronald Reagan.
We’re running out of oil and doing precious little to develop alternative energy shortages.
Bullshit, doofus!! Alternative energy is nice but it isn’t going to solve the problem. I have no quarel if you wanna ride your bike to work or ride on Sound Transit’s white elephant whenever that thing’s up & running. But your “solar energy solution”, at least around here, hides behind many clouds, where your head happens to be at least on this issue. You guys are going to have to do better than that if you want to see lower prices at the pump….BUT WAIT!! That’s the plan for you liberals isn’t it?? Keep energy rare and costly and FORCE people to change their transportation choices. Admit it….
Running out of oil….and you honestly believe that?? Kind of like running out of salmon…except you can go into any supermarket and see the stuff on the shelves everywhere?? We’re having a refining and distribution problem, there’s NO shortage of oil. In fact oil is a never ending resource and I’d bet my last dollar right now, that we’ll NEVER see the end of oil in our lifetimes like so many of you liberals fear. Last time I heard there’s more “proven reserves” right now today than ever before. So if we’re running out of oil, why is their more proven reserves (of oil) now than at any other time in our history??
Chuck Fink, you ignorant slut, you speak with such authority on subjects that you know next to nothing about. You can’t get out of the “oil” mindset. I’ll tell you what, Google the word MAGNETISM and fill up your sloshy, great-big , round oil head with some “alternative” information to oil industry propaganda.
Chuck Fink @ 75
“Running out of oil….and you honestly believe that?? Kind of like running out of salmon”
No…the is a huge difference. Salmon reproduce themselves. Oil does not.
“In fact oil is a never ending resource and I’d bet my last dollar right now, that we’ll NEVER see the end of oil in our lifetimes like so many of you liberals fear.”
Boy…you are one fucking idiot! Sure, you may die in the next few years and your “prediction” may come true. Most projections for oil reserves indicates that there is well under 100 years of easily extractable oil remaining.
Your assertions are little more than “faith-based” science….
Chick Fink said: “I’d bet my last dollar right now, that we’ll NEVER see the end of oil in our lifetimes like so many of you liberals fear.”
Perfesser DJ said: “Most projections for oil reserves indicates that there is well under 100 years of easily extractable oil remaining.”
I assume Chuck Fink that you won’t be living another 100 years?
Wow, another whopper from the mind of the perfesser. I suppose MTR would now say: “DJ, another bong hit?” DJ, I am so glad I don’t skip your commentary. Comedy at it’s best!
PuddyBud @ 78
Man, you really need to learn how to read, Pudster. I said well under 100 years, but you have somehow read “100 years” into that statement. Do you understand the difference between the statements “x < 100" and "x = 100"? Additionally Fink specifically said "...end of oil in our lifetimes”. Don’t you think that some of the people reading this blog will be around in, say, 50 to 100 years?
Hey Pudster, please address my comment here.
PuddyBud @ 78
Oops…the html engine ate part of my post (I used a “less than” symbol in it). Take two:
Man, you really need to learn how to read, Pudster. I said well under 100 years, but you have somehow read “100 years” into that statement.
Man, you really need to learn how to read, Pudster. I said well under 100 years, but you have somehow read “100 years” into that statement. Do you understand the difference between the statements “x .LT. 100” and “x .EQ. 100”?
Also, Fink said “in our lifetimes”. Don’t you think that some of the people reading this blog will be around in, say, 50 to 100 years?
Hey Pudster, please address my comment here.
To answer the second question first. Unequivocally NO! Jesus is coming again! Now for the first question. DJ think just for a picosecond instead of immediately parsing. You said well under 100 years, what is that 95, 90, or 65 years? You didn’t qualify it. It only took 2 minutes to find the data.
822,815,303,000 barrels total known reserves/32,234,418.5 barrels a day = 69.93 years. I can agree on that. So I don’t think he’ll outlive the oil estimates.
Puddybud @ 81
Thanks for the answers.
“Unequivocally NO! Jesus is coming again! Now for the first question.”
Wow…you must have some inside information. My mother, who is a Lutheran minister, doesn’t have a clue about the timing! :-)
“You said well under 100 years, what is that 95, 90, or 65 years?”
I only specified “less than” 100 years because there are a plethora of independent estimates ranging from about 20 years to nearly 100 years.
DJ, just read the Bible the signs are there. The sun want dark in 1790, the moon turned to blood and the “stars” fell (a long meteor storm) a in 1833. I didn’t say anything wrong about Jesus coming again. Ask your Lutheran minister about the signs of the times. Only The Father knows the exact hour of His arrival!
I just found out about your web site and love it.
I’m hooked.
Keep up the good work.
Pravda @ 22
To become a Seattle Police officer, you must complete:
– 6 months (720 hours) in the police academy
– 8 weeks in the Advanced Training Academy where you learn laws & procedures specific to Seattle.
– 4 months in the Field Training Program (with an experienced officer who will evaluate your performance)
You must successfully complete all three courses to work for the SPD.
The Iraqia get 10 weeks. Total.
http://www.defenselink.mil/new....._3175.html
And how many of them are insurgents themselves. And how many of them are acting as “death squads” murdering Iraqi civilians? (Several, if reports from there are to be believed).
Newsweek reported in January that the Pentagon was “debating” whether to send Special Forces teams train Iraqi assasination squads. In June Knight Ridder reportes Yasser Salihee and Tom Lasseter “found more than 30 examples in less than a week” of corpses turning up in Baghdad morgues of people who were last seen being detained by the police commandos.
The Washington Times reported that witnesses in Fallujah reported that “members of the U.S.-trained Iraqi Civilian Defense Corps appeared to be helping supply fighters.”
Yes, it’s a real step forward. Things are definitely rosy.
Re: torture
Torture should be strictly illegal. First, because we are signatory to the various international agreements outlawing it. Second, because we can only be a beacon to tthe world if we are not buried in the muck. Third, because if you start to nibble away at the edges of what is allowed, if you let the untrained (in formal interrogation and the limits thereto) young men take on the task, you’ll see the line crossed in ever more deviant ways. And fourth, because if there IS a “ticking time bomb” scenario (which is a rare-to-nonexistent event), our public officials had damn well better be willing to break the law AND be ready to accept the punishment for breaking it for the greater good, though no jury in the USA would convict in the case of a GENUINE emergency.
Re: oil
There’s an interesting blog called the Oil Drum that has a couple of posts from the
http://www.theoildrum.com/stor...../233544/36
and
http://www.theoildrum.com/stor...../0150/4833
“the big picture is the same: he believes Peak Oil is not too far off, he thinks OPEC reserves are exaggerated, and he thinks alternative hydrocarbons, EOR, etc will soften the decline, but nonetheless considerable demand side adaptation to declining liquid fuel supply is going to be required. ”
“Tom Petrie (well known energy investment banker and oil analyst)…repeated the estimate by the CEO of Schlumberger of an average annual 8% decline in fields in production…much bigger than anyone has used in a major peak oil projection to my knowledge and is very alarming if true. “