I guess you get the Supreme Court you pay for:
In a ruling that radically reshapes campaign-finance law, the Supreme Court has struck down a key campaign-finance restriction that bars corporations and unions from pouring money into political ads.
The long-awaited 5-4 ruling, in the Citizens United v. FEC case, presents advocates of regulation with a major challenge in limiting the flow of corporate money into campaigns, and potentially opens the door for unrestricted amounts of corporate money to flow into American politics.
Good thing too, because if anybody is a victim in our current political system, it’s corporations. Good thing they’ll finally get their voices heard.
Correction…
Good thing too, because if anybody is a victim in our current political system, it’s unions. Good thing they’ll finally get their voices heard. Oh wait… The SEIU worked with ACORN. They got their voice heard in the whitey house… At least 22 visits by Andy Stern per HuffPo. They got their cadillac health care plans removed from the health care debate.
Oh my bad. Neva mind
I am not an attorney but ti seems t me that the issue here is simple, free soeech is free speech.
That said, I am not convinced that one can argue the corporations are individuals. Corporations are also not unions. The latter are non profits organized for a political purpose .. that is to bargain en mase with employers or trades.
So, I suggest the real issues is TAXES. Corporations can not exist whose functions include determining who is or is not elected … at least they should not be free to do so with untaxed money. Corporations should be free to spend or waste money any way they want, but that does not mean they can do so w/o taxes.
Unions are already non-profit so the issue seems to be simple. Make political expenditures by profit making entities taxable.
To be entirely consistent, however, I would also make “charitable” donations by corporations taxable. If Boeing’s stockholders want to endow a chair at the UW, then Boeing should set up a charity and deduct those contributions .. along with political contributions .. from its dividends.
I’m not fond of corporations and the handouts they get from the government, but like #2 this is a free speech issue and since I am an absolutist when it comes to free speech this is good. Maybe I’ll have second thoughts once I read the decision.
HorsesAss.Org » Blog Archive » SCOTUS lifts lid on corporate political spending
Here is the beginning of my post. An@3 So Puddykins
Would you say it was OK if Microsoft, with tis kitty of tens of billions of dollars, decided it wanted to BUY control of WA state?
Or do you think MS shareholders should decide THEY want to do thins by cutting the value of their dividends and accepting the judgement of the (free) market of the effects of such expenditures on the MS share price?
As you think on this, let SJ suggest that you also consider the different ownerships of corporations vs unions. Unions, whether they are corrupt or not, must have elected leadership. That leadership represents one member one vote .. not all that different from how e govern the USoA.
Corporations may be controlled by a few folks who own most of the shares or even by a foreign entity owned by its government.
So lets go one step further. Chrysler is now controlled by Fiat. Would you mind if Fiat decided to adopt the Democratic party of Michigan?
Suppose the foreign were was not just a corporation. Suppose it were a foreign government? Levorno is largely owned by the Chinese Army. Suppose Levorno (using Chinese money) BOUGHT MS, and then decided it wanted to set up a Chinese style “democracy” here? OK by you if the government of China finances (through its MS subsidiary) the WA state Reds (aka Repubs)?
It seems to me that a true conservative would oppose corporatism .. Private as well as Public.
@1, To knee jerk this immediately into a partisan issue displays a keen ignorance and complete lack of foresight of the folly this decision represents.
America, Inc.
It’s about time corporations were allowed to haw a voice in the running of this country. Now they need to strike down the antiquated and largely unenforced anti-bribery laws as supporting public servants is a public service. Naming rights could help the support the underwriting of government- the Fox US House of Representatives, The Halliburton US Senate, the Goldman-Sachs Department of the Treasury, the CitiBank White House, the posibilities are endless.
I wonder.
Wow.
This is horrible news. Corporate capture of our government is now complete. It only took 30 years. Good job trogs.
For the allegedly free speech proponents:
Corporations are not people (natural persons). They have no rights. In times past, before the rail road lawyer hijacked the 14th amendment, corporations operated under a charter to serve the public interest.
Corporate control of our political processes and government comes directly at the expense of us citizens. Their money prevents our voices from being heard. Their lobbying thwarts our right to petition the government.
collar @ 3
There, fixed that for you.
Doubtful.
Corporations are not people. They have no rights.
I don’t see how corporate rule (aka fascism) is the logical outgrowth of the libertarian ideal of maximum rights for people, and freedom from coercion.
Maybe one of you self-identified libertarians can explain to me how a pro-corporate, anti-human government will be better for the people.
For those of you who want to get involved:
http://www.freespeechforpeople.org/
Apparently you didn’t read the last part of the original thread head fool… Here let Puddy help you…
Now who went partisan first…?
I pledge my allegiance to the United States of Golden Sachs, and to the profits for which is stands, one company, under no regulation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for corporate CEOs.
Thanks Conservatives! Now that the greatest money (corporations) can flow unrestricted, we’ll only elected even MORE bailout oriented candidates. You thought Reagan, Bush and Obama bailed out Wall Street and private for profit corporations with public money….you ain’t seen NOTHING yet!
puddy @ 11
Corporate rule, for and against, is a partisan issue?
Corporations are apolitical and amoral. The divide here is corporations vs people, not left vs right.
Seriously, Puddy, I worry about you.
I think you need a new hobby. You have WAY TOO MUCH free time.
Jason Osgood
(cross posted to SJ)
I absolutely agree with your use of the F (fascism) word here. Too many people equate the f word with Hitler. Hitler was far less of a fascist then Stalin was or China’s Hu is today. Singapore is very much a fascist state, although the line between confuscianism and fascism is difficult t define.
Bottom line is Jeffersonian. He understood the dangers of corporate power .. something he equated with the North.
Corps are not people but neither are unions people. “we” the people is an oxymoron.
Corporations are profit making entities. They exist as individuals only to make money. If individuals who own these entities want to buy an election (as Paul Allen did here) then our system allows that. If Paul Allen wants to buy 51% of Beoing and THEN use Boeing’s pre tax dollars to buy an election THAT should not be allowed.
I think some of the free speech issue has to do with the distinction between groups of people and sets of money. Look at it this way, my synagogue is not allowed to spend money on polituics. It, however, is an individual in the same sense that Boeing is.
Unions are a different issue then corporations because a union’s have a democratic structure.
So, it seems to me that an answer would be that no organization that does not have a democratic structure should be allowed to spend non taxed dollars on political affairs. This would allow unions, pacs, and maybe even some churchesto spend money but allow not entities owned and controlled by investors to spend coproate dollars.
This would be a hard pill for dems and reps as well. The effect would likely end corporate support for charities as well as corporate support for politicians.
And it is an interesting point. With SO MANY corporations being partially owned by overseas interests or foreign governments (China, middle east sovereign funds, etc) do they get to spend in our elections now? Can China and the United Arab Emirates now pump billions into our elections with no restrictions because of “free speech”?
Free speech is supposed to be for PEOPLE…us citizens. You as an individual person can stand on sidewalk and say Obama or Bush is evil (many have on both sides) with restriction from Congress. But this nutball wingnut idea that CORPORATIONS ARE PEOPLE and have the same rights is just crazy.
Yeah, unions are included in this, but they don’t have a fraction of the money of the corporations.
SJ
Since corporations answer to the board and the stockholders, if a corporation is not producing to the will of the board or stockholders, the corporation leadership gets replaced. This happened at Kodak when Puddy worked there long ago. It’s happened at other corporations. Sometimes the board gets replaced.
Now to unions. When people want new leadership sometimes it’s voted in. Sometimes the thugs get to the opposition and “put down the rebellion”. So let’s talk about union dues. Everytime someone asks about union dues Herr Goebbels Himmler Dumb Bunny appears. Let’s get back to the union dues discussion.
I mentioned this before about unions. Ask the HA arschloch, ylb arschloch for my other entries. I have a teacher cousin who hates the political theme of her union. They readily admit some of the union dues exclusively travels to Dummocraptic candidate coffers. When she raised a stink to her union steward he told her to callate la boca (shut her mouth) about it or she would be black listed and given shitty teaching assignments. She asked how can this be since she was tenured and had been teacher of the district twice. Well union thugs are union thugs SJ. It was told to her that things could be made very difficult for her.
So tell me SJ, if this is a free country and the union is comprised of individual members, how can the union coerce my cousin into shutting up to keep her job and not deal with the threats?
Now watch the HA moronic class talk about how unions are sooooooooooo good for peeps even though that’s not the issue Puddy brought up here.
Jason,
Don’t worry about Puddy. But Puddy worries about your health and prays for you. Puddy has time when the compile is going on. Somehow Eclipse seems to do strange things at times though!
And why do your 401K and other retirement entities you sink your money into investments in corporations SJ? Why not invest in the unions? They seem to have your political bent?
You fools love to knock corporations yet when your portfolio climbs to new heights you seem to like these corporations.
Shit SJ, we see Herr Goebbels Himmler Dumb Bunny brag about his oil stocks, the anathema of the progressive libtardo.
Ooops gotta go. Forgot to close a correctly. Darnit.
@4 “Would you say it was OK if Microsoft, with tis kitty of tens of billions of dollars, decided it wanted to BUY control of WA state?”
That’s more or less a question after the fact.
To follow the Court’s reasoning, it should apply to dealings with all three branches of government. Look for a tip jar next to Chief Justice Roberts’ seat.
The concept that ANYTHING qualifies as “free speech” is amply illustrated every time Puddy posts here.
Fool @ 18
You still haven’t answered my question..
I’m waiting in the other thread.
And please quit it about referring people to me? Ok.
Backup your silly bullshit yourself. No one’s going to bail you out from your ugly record here.
FOOL@22… Keep hope (wait a minute dope for you) alive.
Puddy will refer peeps to you F O R E V E R! Puddy don’t take orders from feckless fools…
Here’s your daily orders…
Go watch Kos TV
Go read some HuffPo
Post that republicansexoffenders link you love.
Read some Alternet
Link some TPM
Read some DU
See you fool!
Good.. I always knew you were a coward when it came to backing up your own nonsense.
Thanks for confirming that for everyone here.
Maybe I’ll refer everyone to the swiss cheese hole bubble memory of yours..
F O R E V E R…
FartnArt,
When did Daddy Love’s company buy WA State? Produce facts fool! Oh you mean all the Dummocrapts in the House, Senate and Guvnur?
My bad fool! You and your free speech screech is a laugh for a microsecond.
Hey folks remember when I said that a year from now that Stupes will be here doing the same old, same old right wing bullcrap?
Check the swiss cheese hole bubble memory of Stupes for the details.
Pop Quiz For Puddy!
1. Which US president was known as the “Trust Buster” and what political party did he belong too.
2. Which US president warned us about the power of the military industrial complex and what party did he belong too.
See?? This is the ultimate right wing fantasy (aside from the nasty behind closed doors stuff).
I rest my case…
Michael,
What do Teddy And Ike have to do with Odumba and health care, Porkulus Spending, High Unemployment, and general US malaise?
Puddy, what does anything you posted have to do with the topic of this thread?
Teddy, Ike, and many, many, other Republicans and conservatives felt there needs to be checks on corporate power. The law that was just struck down was a check on corporate power.
And since you didn’t answer the quiz I’ll do it for you.
1. The Great Trust Buster was Teddy Roosevelt (R).
2. President (and general) Eisenhower (R) warned us about the threat that the growing and unchecked power of the military industrial complex and the threat that it posed for America.
The conservative tradition in the belief that there needs to be checks or limits placed on the powerful corporations or governments can be traced back to the beginnings of conservative thought and Edmund Burke.
Why do modern conservatives reject their own history?
So, WaMu, Lehman Brothers, Enron, World Com, and so on, their boards and stockholders were cool with what they were doing? That there would be a good argument for having checks on corporate power.
So if a corporation is “incorporated” in New York city, but 58% of it’s stock is owned by China…can it contribute now unlimited money to U.S. campaigns? Wouldn’t the boards choice of money used in campaigns be influenced by their majority (China) holders? Or can they only use % of money the corporation has owned by United States citizens (stock holders)? Or did we just give foreign powers unlimited access to run campaign ads in our country?
@28 The other day you wrote of how utterly boring Puddy has become. How spot on that comment was. At this point the stupid fuck is boring me to tears. You noticed, of course, how the discourse here was elevated when he was gone for a few days.
How about we bring Marvin back and get rid of Puddy? Goldy? Darryl? How about it? Please? Um, pretty please with sugar on top?
@33
Yup, it looks that way.
My deal on this is this:
The law that was just over turned was a needed check on corporate power. The Democratic and Republican parties and liberal and conservative thought all have a tradition of calling for checks on power. It’s pretty hard to argue against having checks on power. So, if we don’t have this check on power, than what will we do or use to have a reasonable check on the political power of corporations?
@1 Poor, poor, pudpecker. He thinks corporations are being drowned out and subjugated by union money and influence! Workers arise! Crush the capitalists! America is turning into a socialist paradise! Either that, or pudpecker’s hallucinations have escalated to a whole new level of delusional mental illness.
Meanwhile, Democrats are falling all over themselves being polite to Republicans about health care reform. The Democrats may not have the gonads of a tree frog, but they have way more class than any Republican ever did.
Personally, I’d prefer a meaner bunch of Democrats than these milquetoasts, but I guess that’s just me.
@37
I’ve met Norm Dicks a couple of times and I’m pretty sure that he cares far more about being a big swinging dick in his district and in D.C. than he does about the people in his district (like me!). There are far too many Norm Dicks’s, on both sides of the aisle, in D.C.
Patty Murray and Jay Inslee seem to care about the people they represent and are able to do good work on their behalf.
Michael @ 30, etc.
I’m liking the “checks and balances” meme. Thanks.
I guess free speech includes the right to be heard, if you have the cash. Whichever kind of well-resourced organizations benefit, it seems to me that everybody loses on this one. Just like on healthcare, Wall Street or bank reform, take your pick. This is part of a larger trend in which more power goes to the powerful, and more power is taken away from regular folks.
It would seem that the big winner is the TV networks/stations who will reap the rewards of more expensive political advertising campaigns, and counter-campaigns. Since the corporate/union advertisers will have to be countered by the grassroots, private money that would go into political action will be diverted into political advertising.
Way to go, SCOTUS! Let’s kick the country while it’s down, accelerate the collapse! Woo-hoo!
Well, while the Supremes were hanging a big new “For Sale” sign on the United States, we get the news that Whistler/Blackcomb has been put on the block by Intrawest’s creditors, right before the Olympics.
Our neighbors to the north just haven’t yet learned to think big enough.
Corporations are going to really regret this ruling. It puts a big target on their backs just at a time when the Dems in Congress need to rally the troops. Government makes the rules about regulating Corp’s and they can make life very difficult if so inclined.
Hey Michael, if you understood sentence structure, Puddy answered them in ordinal order.
So if you have problems with reading or comprehension see Steve. He let’s everyone know how great he is.
Herr Goebbels Himmler Dumb Bunny,
Refute the facts of #1 post. You can’t sucka. All that’s left is your vile daily diarrhea.
So yours have grown in your old dumb bunny age? Who knew?
Wait for it… some come back saying his are still larger than mine.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
@44
Nope!
You never said what party they belonged to.
And you tried to change the subject.
Too bad about the court decision. Let’s see, MSFT has billions in cash on hand. How much does the SEIU have? Yeah, a level playing field, alright. Fuck.
@44 “So if you have problems with reading or comprehension see Steve. He let’s everyone know how great he is.”
Actually, I let everybody know what a stoopid and pathetic fucktard flying monkey you are, asswipe. Big difference. But you’re so fucking stoopid you’ll never get it.
Speaking of pathetic, here, you can relive one of you greatest HA moments.
A dumb fuck asswipe race traitor, that’s what you are.
Here, meditate on this, fuckface:
http://www.republicanoffenders.com/Pedophiles.html
Your political heroes get off on having sex with children. That’s a fact. You are undisturbed by wingnut decadence and degradation, and that’s a fact, too. Seeing as how you inhabit the rank underbelly of that foul Republican beast, it begs the question, Bizarro-boy (heh- I used “boy” on ol’ Pudz. Here come the charges of racism from Klynical, who, as you might recall, likes to tell us racist jokes about lazy blacks), just what perversions are you into? I figure you to have a hankering to fuck your neighbor’s children as well as Klynical’s goat. Have I got you pegged? Yup!
Let’s see
WaMu People – 3K more to Republicans vs Democrats
butt, their PAC gave a slight nod to Democrats so it washed.
Lehman Brothers – They loved the Donkey way way more than the Elephant Ask the HA arschloch ylb arschloch for the details.
Enron – in the 90s it was Democrats especially Clinton for the Trans-Asia pipeline, then they gave much to Bush. So yes Enron gave to Bush team when they thought Bush would bail them out of their financial problems. It DID NOT HAPPEN did it Libtardo Mike?
World Com http://www.opensecrets.org/news/worldcom/index.php link is now gone but it was pretty even with a slight nod to Republicans.
Thanks Steve for calling Puddy a flying Monkey. You and Herr Goebbels Himmler Dumb Bunny have a special place in Puddy’s colon!
Up yours, race traitor.
Puddy’s political heroes?
Mel Reynolds is Puddy’s hero?
Gerry Stubbs is Puddy’s hero?
Frederick Richmond is Puddy’s hero?
Neil Goldschmidt is Puddy’s hero?
Sam Adams is Puddy’s hero?
Puddy knew the real Steve would demonstrate his brains are located where his HA flatulence occurs.
No, Puddy, one of your heroes is the Republican who wanted to wear a panda costume while having sex with a child. That’s more your speed.
http://www.pennlive.com/midsta.....cused.html
Another hero of yours is Republican Bob Allen. You remeber him, don’t you? He’s the Republican who offered an undercover black cop $20 if he could blow him in a Florida park toilet stall.
http://articles.orlandosentine.....titusville
That’s your speed too. That’s because your mind is all fucked up, Puddy, a condition brought about by your having sex with a poor, hapless and helpless Montana goat, I’m sure.
Did I mention that you’re a race traitor? I’d hate to leave that out of the discussion.
Why does Puddy hate black peeps? Seems odd.
And, yes, you are a flying monkey. You can just learn to live with the handle you’ve earned for yourself. Don’t like it? Look in the mirror. Blame the dumb fuck you see staring back at you.
Golly Steve, you’ve really shown your true “colors”. So when did you get fitted for the pointy white hat?
Talk to the goat, race traitor.
Yep Puddy knew the goat attack was the next item in your arsenal. You are as predictable as the arschloch!
@48
Nice try at avoiding the issue there Puddy. Didn’t work.
@33 Even worse…Greg Palast just wrote a piece in which he speculates on whether the SCOTUS ruling would protect the right of Osama bin Laden to donate a large sum of money to the “Sarah Palin for President” committee.
Let’s see someone argue with the logic of that conclusion without resorting to Puddy-Speak.
Steve @ 47
Every time you (or anyone else) responds in kind, your antagonist is doing a victory dance.
The trogs feed on hate. Please don’t give them the satisfaction.
I hear you, Jason, but please understand that when I’m confronted by bullying bastards that spent the last decade tarring decent people such as yourself as fascists, communists, terrorist sympathizers, traitors and the like, my disposition occasionally leads me to beat the living fuck out of somebody. Alas, I think I might have picked up that particular communications skill while growing up homeless and in Seattle’s housing projects and Youth Center where, believe it or not, delivering a thorough ass-kicking now and then could actually be a good thing.
But seriously, I do hear you and I’ll back off.
Cant say I agree with the SCOTUS on this one.
Steve @ 63
I hear you.
I’m not saying don’t fight back. God no.
I’m saying rock, paper, scissors. For every strategy, there’s an effective counter. Make them play your game.
16. Puddybud Ain’t too logiqual
SJ
What is your point? Corporate votes are based ion the number of SHARES you own. Thia means if Roche has a majority in Amgen, the they get to spend EVERYONE’s money.
So the f what. That is the blemish on any democracy. Unions ain’t perfect either but at least they are subject to a majority vote.
So what? I do not like a lot of shit that comes down when I am not in the majority it is called … majority rule, NOT bucks rule.
Yep and I was given a choice of being drafted to go to ‘nam, joining the Navy, or goin to Canada? That is called democracy.
Nope. Sometimes groups of people vote badly. BUT, coproate government??? If oyu afre a true conservative you ought to be outraged.
BTW you say you like Sam Adams. Other than the fact that he would not have been happy tom give your religion free speech, Sammy hated thge then equivalent of corporate speech.
BTW…
You gonna be happy when the chinese govt is tghe largest political sponsor here .. since they are the majority shareholder in .. MS? Boeing???
BTW who do you suppose controls the EFF?
Or how do you feel about George Soros becoming a major share holder in Google and then using ALL thedir money to buy … Oregon???
01/21/2010 at 9:23 am
Wow, that’s rich. This hate site operates on the premise of dispensing red meat to
liberalsangst-ridden troglodytes who know nothing but hate and then let them troll the waters waiting for someone to dare challenge post. You say “don’t feed on the hate”, but that is all I find in this cesspool of a blog. It’s plainly an unhealthy venue and very little discourse is seen let alone maintained. I may be just as guilty as the next person from time to time, but I have no delusions that about 50 percent of the regulars are fucking batshit, certified crazy.Damn, Jason, I didn’t know you had such a satirical comedy side to you.
Goldy is always whining about corporations that employ, provide healthcare for and provide goods and services his dumbass couldn’t go a day without using. Same old whiny leftist rant from the 60’s and is just as lame and stale as it was used nearly 50 years ago. Especially in this state where the major corporations are huge contributors to the DEMOCRAT PARTY.
Next time you feel like whining Goldy, think about how much money the following companies you loathe WILL contribute to your mentally retarded polical philosophy via the DNC:
Microsoft
Amazon.com
Costco
Starbucks
Then there is always that fucking commie SOROS and all of his front operations
These aren’t operations that donate overwhelmingly to the RNC, so wipe your snotty nose, dry them crying eyes and have someone change your diaper. Instead of the tantrum, you should be throwing a party.
Microsoft <— Balmer is Repub
Amazon.com <— What "liberal" causes do you know of there?
Costco ?????
OTOH
ATT, Payday Loans .. rad right.
Boeing … make war, make money
Weyerhause … never saw tree they didn’t want
ALCOA .. FREE WATER
Max R @ 64
I just passed out, or had a stroke, or something. You and I agreeing on something? Hell, the Apocalypse must be headed our way.
this may help you with your confusion, steve. Good luck navigating it.
empty @ 67
Hey. I offered to buy you a beer.
One step closer to the GOP Master Plan: Turning the USA into Mexico. Everything for sale, all services done for max profit. Police, fire, EMS, the courts, prisons, sanitation and road maintenance, all under corporate domain. Privatize those national parks so Dick Cheney’s buddies can strip mine ’em! Get rid of those pesky child labor laws and we won’t have to waste all that money on education! There’s an upside to this people, c’mon look at the bright side! Ride this nation like a rodeo horse! Spur this ugly beast ’til she’s dead and then we’ll barbecue the carcass for our last meal! Ronnie Reagan and Milton Friedman are laughing in hell.
@71 Empty
You need specs man. This shows that Amazon and MS are pretty center of the road. Moreover it does not show the contributions from their nobilities. Waaan bet on that?