I have a cousin who works in Washington DC. Yesterday he was having lunch at a popular diner near the White House, and who should sit down at the table next to him… but White House press secretary Scott McClellan. The following is a very revealing snippet of conversation my cousin overheard:
WAITRESS: What can I get you, hun?
MCCLELLAN: I appreciate your question. I think your question is being asked in response to my investigation of the menu, and the investigation that you reference is something that continues at this point and as I have previously stated while that investigation is ongoing, I am not going to comment on it.
WAITRESS: Uh… I was just asking if you were ready to order…
MCCLELLAN: Yes but this question is coming up in the context of this ongoing investigation of the menu, and that’s why I said that our policy is not to comment on an ongoing investigation from this table.
WAITRESS: So you need a few more minutes?
MCCLELLAN: I appreciate the question, and I know you want to get to the bottom of this. No one wants to get to the bottom of this more than the President of the United States, and I think the way to be most helpful is not to be commenting on it while it is an ongoing investigation. That’s why we’re continuing to be following that approach and that policy.
WAITRESS: The President? Will the President be joining you for lunch?
MCCLELLAN: No, that’s not a correct characterization, and I think you are well aware of that. We know each other very well, and we are not going to get into commenting on an ongoing investigation of the menu.
WAITRESS: But… you just said…
MCCLELLAN: I am well aware of what was said previously. I remember well what was said previously. And at some point I look forward to talking about it. But until the investigation of the menu is complete, I’m just not going to do that. The appropriate time is when the investigation…
WAITRESS: This is ridiculous! If you need more time, I’ll just come back later…
MCCLELLAN: If you’ll let me finish…
WAITRESS: No, you’re not finishing. You’re not saying anything! Do you want to order or not?!
MCCLELLAN: Again, I’ve responded to the question.
My cousin reports that at this point the waitress dumped a pot of decaf in McClellan’s lap, and moved on to the next table.
Just enjoyed a long weekend at Luntz’s place in Hawaii, but I’m back now.
Goldy, two posts on the same topic? Those 420,000 signatures gathered for I-912 must really be getting you down.
Goldy, he’s the same as the Clinton guys; they lied thru their teeth, is he worse?
This is a big waste of time, depending on your definition of “is”.
When the going gets rough, the conservatives start accusing you of staying on the same topic for too long.
They’ll do the same thing when Initiative 912 is defeated….Goldy, is this all you have you talk about?
Don’t fall all over yourselves, guys.
is there anything quite as sick as making anything *ANYONE* in the Clinton administration did equivalent to the treason-might-squeak-by-on-a-technicality tricks that Rove is staring at? And he’s just the one that got caught!
Righton @ 2
Are you really asking that question?
Ken Starr outed Monica Lewinsky as a cigar loving, hummer queen.
Karl Rove outed a CIA agent whose identity wasn’t publically known and worked on preventing the proliferation of WMD’s.
C’mon!
The possibility of repealing a gas tax, is that what the once proud Republican party is hanging it’s hat on?
How embarassing!
@6
Also Starr was, in a sense, doing his job (in its err…. expanded sense), whereas Robe was just being nasty.
MOH @ 4
Good point, the Republicans in congress where on the same topic of trying to impeach Presidnet Clinton since day one of his presidency.
Politics, like getting your ear pierced has the same maxim: left is right and right is wrong.
wow goldy the burning satire….heh heh heh. you can do better than this…..
you know i just heard hillary “the ball buster” clinton on the radio and if you and she could only switch voices you might get on the radio and she might get elected…….
well, you MIGHT get on the radio anyway……
Ghost @10,
Hey… my voice is at least as high as hers.
goldy…you know i love ya man…but her voice is much LOWER than yours.she has a shman voice that could strip paint. although i am not in the group that finds your voice annoying…i think it has character. i just like to pull your chain sometimes….
and you are always a good sport………
Sheesh. Tough crowd. Since when did McClellan’s status get elevated to saintly? Badda boom, chishhh!
How does Hillary’s voice relate to the little problem in the administration? Is there some suggestion that she might be pretending to be Karl Rove?
@ 10
“you know i just heard hillary “the ball buster” clinton on the radio and if you and she could only switch voices you might get on the radio and she might get elected…….
well, you MIGHT get on the radio anyway……”
Thus spoke the corporate whore who has neither been elected nor had a political radio program. . .
Goldy that was kind of a lame joke on the thread topic.
Here is a better one I am sure you will love:
George Bush and Dick Cheney go to a restaurant for lunch. They look over the menu and the waitress comes by to take their order.
BUSH: “I’ll have the quickie.”
WAITRESS: Slaps Bush and says “I thought that after Clinton, we were done with all that sexual harassment in Washington!”
CHENEY: Leaning over, whispers into Bush’s ear “George, it’s pronounced KEESH.”
Amazing how the trolls try to change the subject to Bill, Hillary, Monica, the gas tax, or any fucking thing that pops into their head. Here’s a scenario for you (disclaimer: literary license has been taken, and the following events are not necessarily true):
Cop: Can I see your license, please?
prr: Officer, have you signed Initiative 912 yet? I have a petition right here.
Cop: I’d just like to see your license, please.
prr: Officer, don’t you feel it’s an outrage they want to spend King County gas taxes in King County? That’s waste, fraud, and abuse!!!
Cop: Son, I’d just like to see your license …
prr: What did I do, Officer?
Cop: Son, how fast do you think you were going back there?
prr: Officer, are you sure that wasn’t Bill Clinton you tagged with your radar gun?
Cop: Step out of the car, please, young man.
prr: Officer, can I ask you a question? Instead of harassing honest citizens, why aren’t you out arresting murderers like Ted Kennedy?
Cop: Mister, if you don’t get out of the car right now, you’re going to jail — !!!
prr: Officer, do you really want to pay 9 1/2 cents a gallon more for —
(Sirens in background as backup arrives. Sounds of scuffle. Car door slams. More sirens. Car door opens. Sounds of clanging metal doors.)
Booking Sergeant: What’s the charge?
Cop: Obstructing an officer and resisting arrest.
Booking Sergeant: What’s your name, son?
prr: Officer, don’t you think it’s an outrage that Monica wants to raise gas taxes here in Washington state to pay for Bill Clinton’s cigars … ?
I *heart* Roger Rabbit
Why not? Liberals are always going from one phony “outrage” to another. Last week it was the “outrage” over trips Tom Delay took when in fact, it turns out most of the Democrat leadership (espexially Pelosi and Norm Dicks) are guilty of more outrageous trips paid by far more lobbyists. So pardon us if we *YAWN* at you latest ‘outrage’ on the ‘outage’.
corporate whore here…..coming from you DJ…that is such a compliment.LOL. get a clue and a sense of humor man….life is way too short to be YOU…….
Rabiit,
Wanna hear a joke?
I am a young man and you are an old, sickly one.
In a couple years I’ll still be out around and kicking and you’ll be dead.
With your support, the state of Washington will have come in and picked your estate clean so your elderly wife will end up in a state run retirement facility.
You’re right prr, I’m a sickly old rabbit who might kick at any time, and you’ll probably outlast me. You’re wrong about my estate, though — I’m not remotely close to being wealthy enough to pay any estate tax, either state or federal. As for my wife ending up in a state run retirement home, she worked hard all her life, and if I’m not here to support and take care of her, and her health and financial circumstances render her dependent on a state run retirement home, then I certainly hope that state-run retirement home is there when she needs it. She deserves nothing less for her lifetime of hard work and, yes, paying taxes. That’s why I vote Democratic.
Selfish Republican fucks like you wouldn’t care if my widow was living out of a shopping cart on a curb, and starving to death. I wouldn’t wish that on your mother, wife, or sister — no matter how big a prick you are. But you would do it to my widow without batting an eye, wouldn’t you? Asshole.
Absolutely Rabbit,
Glad you’ve lived up to my expoectations and left your family in dire straights.
You useless piece of work
Comment on 19
Wingnut trolls think our outrage is phony because nothing outrages them. They wouldn’t know what outrage is if it hit them over the head. Well here’s a clue, America-haters: Liberals are damn mad about Rove’s treason and Republican heads are gonna roll!
RR @ 23
“I wouldn’t wish that on your mother, wife, or sister – no matter how big a prick you are. But you would do it to my widow without batting an eye, wouldn’t you? Asshole. “
Happily, Rabbit, rumors of your widow are greatly exaggerated! :-)
geez.roger…that’s sad. not about the money part, but about the rest home part. don’t you have kids that she can live with? remember the good old days when we didn’t warehouse our old people, they actually lived with family and enriched the family by doing so?
everytime i forget something one of our kids will just laugh and say “shady pines, shady pines”..but they would never really do it. they know i’d come back and get them. ;)
wouldn’t it be better if everyone got tax breaks for having their elderly relatives live with them? so they could afford it.
RR @ 25
“Republican heads are gonna roll!”
Rove’s head seem like the best roller. I mean, it is round and slick. Compare that to Rumsfeld’s head, which is jar-like, with major flat spots. Bush’s head is too soft and squishy to really do much in the way of rolling. Cheney’s head might not do too badly, although it is is bumpy and has a few squishy bad spots. . . .
Rabbit, Did you see awhile back how little John Kerry and
his lovely wife gave to charity in comparison to George Bush.
Considering how much more wealth Heinz has, your theory is
backwards. Why can’t you see through the fog?
Rabbit, your scenario @17 is priceless and should be repeated at regular intervals to keep prr-gatory and other trolls at bay while providing a bit of levity for thinking folk.
Yeah, forgot the Secy of Defense nailed for taking secrets home illegally (John Deutche), and then Secy of State Berger nailed for stealing/stuffing documents in his shorts/socks…
Whatever happened to the supposed party of “personal accountability?”
Whenever a Republican gets caught lying, cheating, stealing or participating in acts of treason, they never, ever, ever take responsibility for their actions. They always, and without fail, resort to “They did it!” “They did it!”
As if it somehow relieves them of their crimes, while espousing that they claim the moral high ground over godless Liberals.
What kind of dolt calls themselves a Republican anymore?
Never mind, there’s a whole list of them on this blog.
Personal Accountability?
Are you kidding?
In Politics?
Same place as “Party of the people (especially if you’re a billionairess)
@ 29
Geez, even when Democrats give more, the Republicans still think it’s somehow less as it relates to total personal wealth.
Reply to 29
Charitable donations are a private matter. How much a person gives to charity is their business and none of yours. So how the fuck do you know what his donations are? Did you steal his tax return from the IRS? Kerry served our country in war and devoted his life’s work to public service.
Reply to 24
I wasn’t very good at stealing.
They sure get worked up about George Soros’s donations to public discourse. All Soros does is pay for political ads and grass roots organizing. Then in the next breath they defend Richard Scaife’s funding of political dirty tricks and smear campaigns. Wingers have no morals. They’re evil.
Amazing how much power you cede to Karl Rove in your imagination. Goldmember was just a movie after all. You would be crushed to learn that Rove doesn’t have the kind of sway over events you think he does. Then we would just be humdrum America, conspiracyless, not much fun at all…far be it from me to stand between a man and his active fantasy life…
The law states that, to qualify as a breach of security, a.) the agent’s identity must be classified and b.) the agent must have been posted abroad within the previous five years.
Neither applies to Plame. Her identity and employment was evidently well known in unofficial Washington circles (Andrea Mitchell has grudgingly admitted that most reporters knew who she was, who she was married to and where she worked). And she was withdrawn from overseas duty in 1995 — nine years prior to this flap.
But murderer Ted Kennedy, confessed war criminal John Kerry and racist/terrorist Robt. Byrd, liberal icons all, will make fools of themselves trying to make something of nothing.
Baynative — another winger apologist for treason. Amazing the excuses these trolls dream up for Republican felonies.
Roger, Roger, Roger…
This is about as serious and will go about as far as the move to prosecute Rumsfeld because some Muslim turd in Gitmo spilled his milk and cookies on his Koran, Quran, Q’ran or whatever the hell they call it.
But you can hope.
Why anybody would take a donk seriously about treason is beyond me. Dont you donk have better things to talk about like defending terrorist at Gitmo.
RUFUS @ 43
“Why anybody would take a donk seriously about treason is beyond me.”
Why would anyone take you seriously about anything. You’ve never made a contribution to the comment threads. You are little more than a babbling idiot. (And, since I am not a “donk”, I was not making a defensive comment–just an objective observation).
Within the last 6 years, a gutless mainstream media has been too terrified to ever question anything about this administration, preferring instead to concentrate on harmless but entertaining fluff: the Jackson trial, the blonde girl in Aruba, the Tom Cruise and Scientology, etc. Dan Rather at CBS and more recently Newsweak provide ample demonstrations of what will happen if anyone questions the Flight Suit in Chief. The Conservative Echo Chamber of bloggers, AM radio, and pseudo “think tanks” such as Heritage and AEI (which we evil liberals so quaintly refer to as the VRWC), stand ever vigilant to crush the slightest hint of critical thinking, even if American “journalist” were inclined to practice it.
Eight years ago, one of the finest Chief Executives of America, a man of unmatched intellect who began his term with a country mired in deficits and a recession and ended it with a record in job creation and surpluses; none the less committed a stupid act that gave his enemies the excuse they needed to try and bring him down. . In another time and place, the affair’ Lewinsky would have remained private, but the times were far from normal. As brilliant as President William J. Clinton was, even he could not comprehend how ruthless the VRWC was in their determination to destroy him, even sacrificing two of their own colleagues in the process.
One would also think that a man as equally brilliant as Karl Rove, a ruthless political operative who has left his opponents sprawled on the streets between Texas and D.C., would never be stupid enough to endanger himself in such a careless manner. But maybe Rove, like Clinton, has grown over confident, not realizing how many Democrats, and even a few Republicans, would like to see his ass doing a frog walk to the Grey Bar Hotel.
I personally do not see it happening, however, because the R’s control still Congress, the media are still mostly whores and suck ups, and some celebrity stupid or pretty blonde girl is bound to divert the attention of the Nation( most of whom are more interested in American idol then American Politics). Rove may be forced to resign (and I have my doubts about that too), but even if indicted, the Shrub will pardon his favorite Turd Blossom.
Commander OGG @45-
Have you been asleep? The media obsessed with the fraud story of GW Bush being AWOL from the Guard. Then they went gaa gaa over AbuGhraib.
They spent valuable credibility trying to prove that Clinton’s contracting with Halliburton was Bush’s fault and demanded Rumsfeld be fired for a fake story printed about Gitmo.
They all got the vapors when Dan Rather contrived his phoney story and backed it up with fake documents.
Now they are running in circles because they think they can make a non story into a real story even there was no leak and the person in the question of damage was not a covert operative. Yet, the media marches blindly on dragging fools like Dick Durbin and John Kerry with them.
What they are missing is that a little truthful investigation would go a long, long way. Much (but not all) of the nation is growing tired of the fabricated journalism and the whores crying wolf. People are coming to realize that when the media speaks in unison, it is usually to create smoke to hide something that doesn’t fit their agenda. Could this gambit have been the trial and sentencing of Sandy Berger who admitted stealing and shredding top secret documents or H. Clinton’s illegal campaign finance operation?
Baynative, you fucking apologist and minimizer for treason, torture, murder, and fascism, you missed your calling. You should have been born as Saddam’s third son. You’d have fit right in. The Bush Administration imprisoned and tortured INNOCENT people, you flaming jackass. Over 100 deaths in U.S. custody have occurred, dozens of which are under criminal investigation, you mindless ass.
It’s all going to implode regardless of whether the media turns a blind eye and the public buries their collective head in a pillow and changes the channel. The economy is imploding. The Iraq war is imploding. Bush’s lies are imploding. There will not be a dictatorship in what used to be America, because there won’t be an America — it’s all going to collapse. The Neocon Dream is a house of cards. Gravity still works. We will end up a leaderless Third World country with no Constitution, no permanent government, no currency, no jobs or wealth, no morals, and no future — just drifting along. America will disintegrate into a howling mob armed with 20,000 nuclear weapons.
“It’s all going to implode regardless of whether the media turns a blind eye and the public buries their collective head in a pillow and changes the channel. The economy is imploding. The Iraq war is imploding. Bush’s lies are imploding. There will not be a dictatorship in what used to be America, because there won’t be an America – it’s all going to collapse. The Neocon Dream is a house of cards. Gravity still works. We will end up a leaderless Third World country with no Constitution, no permanent government, no currency, no jobs or wealth, no morals, and no future – just drifting along. America will disintegrate into a howling mob armed with 20,000 nuclear weapons.”
My GOD, life is hardly worth living if you’re a liberal. Or so it seems.
Baynative @ 48
“My GOD, life is hardly worth living if you’re a liberal. Or so it seems.”
Nope. . . even people in Third World countries have a will to live. We liberals just have a better vision for America. And we, most certainly, are not going to sit by while the NeoCon traitors continue to wipe their ass with the Constitution, piss away the wealth of the country, destroy the environment, and turn the us into the world’s number one rogue nation!
Karl Rove should get the truth teller award for exposing the CIA nepotism involving Joe Wilson and his wife, Valerie Plame. Mr. Rove is turning out to be the real “whistleblower” in this whole sorry pseudo-scandal. He’s the one who warned Time’s Matthew Cooper and other reporters to be wary of Mr. Wilson’s credibility. He’s the one who told the press the truth that Mr. Wilson had been recommended for the CIA consulting gig by his wife, not by Vice President Dick Cheney as Mr. Wilson was asserting on the airwaves. In short, Mr. Rove provided important background so Americans could understand that Mr. Wilson wasn’t a whistleblower but was a partisan trying to discredit the Iraq War in an election campaign. Thank you, Mr. Rove.
“We liberals just have a better vision for America.”
Ah, yes…open borders, institutional racism, an economy driven by a robust AIDS industry, taxes, taxes, taxes, people herded into urban compunds and regulated by mass transit, 1st amendment curtailment by liberal judges, property rights taken away in the name of weeds and slugs, our defense department managed by the U.N., fictional revisionist history taught in school, socialism modeled after failed systems. Do away with our language and our culture and as your Supreme Court appointee and former ACLU chair says, “Temper our judicial judgements with direction from the international community.”
You have certainly proved to have some vision. (And you talk about the constitution).
By the way – ya’all shouldn’t be so quick to yell about treason. It was pretty much done away with by your leaders, Jane Fonda and (D) Presidential candidate John Kerry.
reply@47,
The economy is imploding.Sharp Rise in Tax Revenue to Pare U.S. Deficit
By EDMUND L. ANDREWS
WASHINGTON, July 12 – For the first time since President Bush took office, an unexpected leap in tax revenue is about to shrink the federal budget deficit this year, by nearly $100 billion.
On Wednesday, White House officials plan to announce that the deficit for the 2005 fiscal year, which ends in September, will be far smaller than the $427 billion they estimated in February.
Mr. Bush plans to hail the improvement at a cabinet meeting and to cite it as validation of his argument that tax cuts would stimulate the economy and ultimately help pay for themselves.
Based on revenue and spending data through June, the budget deficit for the first nine months of the fiscal year was $251 billion, $76 billion lower than the $327 billion gap recorded at the corresponding point a year earlier.
The Congressional Budget Office estimated last week that the deficit for the full fiscal year, which reached $412 billion in 2004, could be “significantly less than $350 billion, perhaps below $325 billion.”
The big surprise has been in tax revenue, which is running nearly 15 percent higher than in 2004. Corporate tax revenue has soared about 40 percent, after languishing for four years, and individual tax revenue is up as well.
Most of the increase in individual tax receipts appears to have come from higher stock market gains and the business income of relatively wealthy taxpayers. The biggest jump was not from taxes withheld from salaries but from quarterly payments on investment gains and business earnings, which were up 20 percent this year
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07.....nted=print
pbj @ 50
“Karl Rove should get the truth teller award for exposing the CIA nepotism involving Joe Wilson and his wife, Valerie Plame.”
Hogwash. At the most, she recommended him and pointed out his qualifications. How is that nepotism? She didn’t hire him you fucking idiot!
“Mr. Rove is turning out to be the real “whistleblower” in this whole sorry pseudo-scandal.”
You mean, Rove is turning out to be the real traitor.
“He’s the one who warned Time’s Matthew Cooper and other reporters to be wary of Mr. Wilson’s credibility. He’s the one who told the press the truth that Mr. Wilson had been recommended for the CIA consulting gig by his wife, not by Vice President Dick Cheney as Mr. Wilson was asserting on the airwaves.”
Are you fucking nuts? What possible relevance is it that “Mr. Wilson had been recommended for the CIA consulting gig by his wife”?
How could that possibly justify Rove undermining the CIA efforts in WMD? How could that possibly justify Rove putting CIA assets at risk? You can you possibly write this bullshit without questioning your own integrety? Are you a paid troll?
“In short, Mr. Rove provided important background so Americans could understand that Mr. Wilson wasn’t a whistleblower but was a partisan trying to discredit the Iraq War in an election campaign.”
No, Rove is a vindictive asshole-turned-criminal who used his access to classified information to discredit Wilson for publishing an essay that falsified the Adminstration’s case for war.
That makes Karl Rove a criminal and a traitor.
pbj @ 51
“The Congressional Budget Office estimated last week that the deficit for the full fiscal year, which reached $412 billion in 2004, could be “significantly less than $350 billion, perhaps below $325 billion.”
Oooooohhh, that is so much better. This year, BushCo will be spending one-third of a TRILLION dollars more than they take in.
Geee, remember back in the good old days when politicians believed in raising the money they spent? How strange is it that Clinton is the only president out of the last four who proposed, and actually got a balanced budget passed. In fact, under Clinton we actually began paying off the national debt.
Which is the party of fiscal conservatives?
Bush is a fiscal trainwreck!
reply @47
“We liberals just have a better vision for America. And we, most certainly, are not going to sit by while the NeoCon traitors continue to wipe their ass with the Constitution, piss away the wealth of the country, destroy the environment, and turn the us into the world’s number one rogue nation!”
Better Vision? Promoting random sex to school kids, teenage abortions without parental notification, an economy driven by the AIDS industry, lawyers who subvert the Constitution by making law from the bench, appoint Supreme Court judges who as Ruth Bader-Ginsberg says, “Will seek the counsel of international policy to guide our rulings”, taking private lands under the cloak of environmentalism to herd people into urban compounds, ignore election law, promote a socialist agenda modeled on failed systems, tax-tax-tax with no audit accountability, subordinate our defenses to the U.N., promote a world tax, erase our borders, destroy our culture and ignore our language, devalue citizenship and adopt a policy of institutional racism.
That’s some vision!
Reply@52,
“Karl Rove should get the truth teller award for exposing the CIA nepotism involving Joe Wilson and his wife, Valerie Plame.”
Hogwash. At the most, she recommended him and pointed out his qualifications. How is that nepotism? She didn’t hire him you fucking idiot!
Mr. Wilson also vehemently denied it when columnist Robert Novak first reported that his wife had played a role in selecting him for the Niger mission. He promptly signed up as adviser to the Kerry campaign and was feted almost everywhere in the media, including repeat appearances on NBC’s “Meet the Press” and a photo spread (with Valerie) in Vanity Fair.
But his day in the political sun was short-lived. The bipartisan Senate Intelligence Committee report last July cited the note that Ms. Plame had sent recommending her husband for the Niger mission. “Interviews and documents provided to the Committee indicate that his wife, a CPD [Counterproliferation Division] employee, suggested his name for the trip,” said the report.
“Mr. Rove is turning out to be the real “whistleblower” in this whole sorry pseudo-scandal.”
You mean, Rove is turning out to be the real traitor.
No, that would be Mr. Wilson, who first “outed” himself as a CIA consultant in a melodramatic New York Times op-ed in July 2003. At the time he claimed to have thoroughly debunked the Iraq-Niger yellowcake uranium connection that President Bush had mentioned in his now famous “16 words” on the subject in that year’s State of the Union address.
An inquiry headed by Britain’s Lord Butler delivered its own verdict on the 16 words: “We conclude also that the statement in President Bush’s State of the Union Address of 28 January 2003 that ‘The British Government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa’ was well-founded.”
In short, Joe Wilson hadn’t told the truth about what he’d discovered in Africa, how he’d discovered it, what he’d told the CIA about it, or even why he was sent on the mission. The media and the Kerry campaign promptly abandoned him, though the former never did give as much prominence to his debunking as they did to his original accusations. But if anyone can remember another public figure so entirely and thoroughly discredited, let us know.
“He’s the one who warned Time’s Matthew Cooper and other reporters to be wary of Mr. Wilson’s credibility. He’s the one who told the press the truth that Mr. Wilson had been recommended for the CIA consulting gig by his wife, not by Vice President Dick Cheney as Mr. Wilson was asserting on the airwaves.”
Are you fucking nuts? What possible relevance is it that “Mr. Wilson had been recommended for the CIA consulting gig by his wife”?
When you use the F-bombo over and over, I know you have no argument whatsoever. Only typical liberal filth and foul.
How could that possibly justify Rove undermining the CIA efforts in WMD? How could that possibly justify Rove putting CIA assets at risk? You can you possibly write this bullshit without questioning your own integrety? Are you a paid troll?
Rove did not undermine CIA efforts in WMD. Throwing out unsubstantiated claims hoping they will stick will not help your case. What Karl Rove did was to warn a reporter that was about to take the word of a liar like Wilson. He never said his wife was an agent or anything even close to that because Karl Rove didn’t even know that at the time. Your spittle producing rant has been all for naught.
“In short, Mr. Rove provided important background so Americans could understand that Mr. Wilson wasn’t a whistleblower but was a partisan trying to discredit the Iraq War in an election campaign.”
No, Rove is a vindictive asshole-turned-criminal who used his access to classified information to discredit Wilson for publishing an essay that falsified the Adminstration’s case for war.
No, Karl Rove did no such thing and you have not provided even one scintilla of evidence to support your claim. However, if you read bot the Senate Intelligence Report and the Lord Butler report, you will see that both of them backup the famous 16 words
in Bush’s speech.
From the Lord Butler Report:
“We conclude also that the statement in President Bush’s State of the Union Address of 28 January 2003 that ‘The British Government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa’ was well-founded.”
Fair minded intelligent people can see through the criminal liberal media efforts to attack Karl Rove with nothing but unsubstantiated allegations as punishment for having the gall to tell the truth about liar andf traitor Joseph Wilson.
DJ@53,
Oooooohhh, that is so much better. This year, BushCo will be spending one-third of a TRILLION dollars more than they take in.
We are at war. Wartime budget typically run larger deficits. If you compare the deficit as a perentage of GDP for WWII compared to today, you will find that it is actually less today that it was under FDR.
Ooop. I forgot. Democrat don’t think we are at war OR they think we deserved 911. Which is it for you?
–From: Progress Report: “ROVE IDENTIFIED THE AGENT AND KNEW THAT WHAT HE WAS DOING WAS WRONG: A number of factors weigh against Rove’s assertion. First, Rove identified Valerie Plame as “Wilson’s wife.” Under section 421 of the Intelligence Identities Protection Act the disclosure of “any information identifying [a] covert agent” is illegal. Second, Rove’s lawyer is undermining the distinction between naming and identifying Plame as too legalistic and a minor detail. Third, Rove insisted on speaking to Cooper only on “double super secret background.” As Andrew Sullivan notes, “Why would Rove have insisted on such a super-tight confidentiality standard if he was not aware that he was divulging something he truly shouldn’t divulge?” Fourth, as Joe Wilson himself has indicated, his wife goes by Mrs. Wilson, so it would have been clear who Rove was talking about (and Rove attended the same church as the Wilson family, indicating he may know more about Plame than he’s letting on).FACT — WHITE HOUSE ORCHESTRATED CAMPAIGN AGAINST WILSON: What Cooper may or may not have done is irrelevant to the central point that Rove leaked classified information. The White House did act in an organized way to push Plame’s identity as a way to discredit Wilson. First, Robert Novak admitted: “I didn’t dig it out [Plame’s identity], it was given to me…. They [the White House] thought it was significant, they gave me the name and I used it.” Second, Rove told Chris Matthews that Plame’s identity was “fair game.” Third, NBC reporter Andrea Mitchell noted in 2003 that she “heard in the White House that people were touting the Novak column and that that was the real story.” Fourth, Time magazine reported the orchestrated campaign against Wilson in October 2003: “In the days after Wilson’s essay appeared, government officials began to steer reporters away from Wilson’s conclusions.” Fifth, an administration official admitted the leak “was meant purely and simply for revenge.” Sixth, it is irrelevant what the purpose of the call may have been. The crucial question is whether Rove intended to disclose Plame’s identity.
ROVE TALKING POINT — ATTACK JOE WILSON: Mehlman has asserted, “[Rove] tried to discourage a reporter from writing a story that was false.” Rove attorney Luskin added, “What Karl was trying to do … was to warn Time away from publishing things that were going to be established as false.” A Wall Street Journal editorial said Rove “deserves a prize” for being a “whistleblower.”
FACT — BUSH ADMINISTRATION ADMITTED IT SHOULD NOT HAVE CITED YELLOWCAKE EVIDENCE: The accuracy of Wilson’s claims have no bearing on the central point that Rove leaked classified information. Wilson was reporting that Iraq was not acquiring yellowcake from Niger. As the White House attempts to play up the idea that Rove was simply trying to correct a reporter’s story, it should be noted that the White House later agreed with Wilson that Bush should not have said in his 2003 State of the Union: “The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa.” First, the CIA asked Bush not to cite that claim before the speech. Second, the White House admitted it should not have cited that intelligence. Former Press Secretary Ari Fleischer said, “This information should not have risen to the level of a presidential speech.” Condoleezza Rice said, “it was information that was mistaken.” CIA Director George Tenet said the famous sixteen words “should never have been included in the text written for the President.”
If there’s any scandal at all here, it is that this entire episode has been allowed to waste so much government time and media attention, not to mention inspire a “special counsel” probe. The Bush Administration is also guilty on this count, since it went along with the appointment of prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald in an election year in order to punt the issue down the road. But now Mr. Fitzgerald has become an unguided missile, holding reporters in contempt for not disclosing their sources even as it becomes clearer all the time that no underlying crime was at issue.
As for the press corps, rather than calling for Mr. Rove to be fired, they ought to be grateful to him for telling the truth.
What about Judith Miller? What leftwing traitor is she covering for? We KNOW it isn’t Karl Rove – he gave both permission to reveal him as having spoken to them because he DID NOTHING WRONG!
One has to wonder if it is traitor Joseph Wilson himself who was the “source”.
Any liberal who thinks Judith Miller, a reporter for the New York Times (an admitted left wing rag) would protect Karl Rove – you are smoking too much hashish!
What did Judith Miller know and when did she know it? Who is she protecting?
“Lies and the lying liars who tell them. A fair and balanced look at the right.”
Thanks, Al. No book title has ever been more accurate.
pbj @ 55
Good points that are accurate, particularly as they pertain to the percentage of GDP comparison. We are spending less as a percentage of GDP, but you left out several critical points that are germane to the issue. You are not taking in account the unprecedented GDP growth in the 90’s attributable to President Clinton’s economic policies.
Had we continued the paltry economic policies of Regan and Bush Sr. that contributed to 3 major recessions between 1980 – 1992, the percentage of GDP output today would not be as great and therefore, in comparison on a percentage basis, today’s war would be much more costly than it simply appears comparing percentage numbers.
However, FDR didn’t give tax breaks to the wealthiest Americans, either. Had he done that it would have made the deficits to fund WWII much more than it was, as the current president has done.In addition to your cost comparisons, you have to examine the scale of warfare we were fighting the compared to what we are doing today. Just to give you an idea based on KIA, we lost over 400,000 in WWII, compared to roughly 2,000 today. On a scale of how may American were involved that makes the military operations of WWII, as a percentage, 20,000% larger than today’s war.
While you were doing your due diligence of the cost of the war as a percentage of GDP, did you also discover that the financial cost of the war was also 20,000% larger adjusted for inflation?
Curious to find out if there are any correlations.
Who was more qualified than Joe Wilson to travel to Niger to investigate the purchase or attempted purchases of yellow cake?
Based on Joe Wilson’s history in the region and his personal and political contacts, he was a wise choice if not the perfect choice to either confirm or deny the yellow cake reports.
Since his reports were negative, it didn’t serve to advance the cause of war that Bush wanted. The whole point of doing this type of groundwork is to determine if we should deploy our military into Harm’s Way or not.
Unfortunately, it appears from the Downing Street memos that the Bush administration was “fixing the facts around the policy” and since they couldn’t fit Joe Wilson refutation of the claims of yellow cake, it appears that the White House decided they would make his wife pay dearly.
It is becoming clear that Rove, through conversations with more than one reporter, set in motion the means that led to the discovery of the name of a CIA employee who didn’t need to have her name or work at the CIA, preventing the proliferation of WMD’s, made public.
It’s also equally clear, that there was a cooperative effort within the White House and Bush clearly knew what Rove had done, and therefore lied to the American public when he said he would cooperate with the investigation two years ago. Or, Rove had intentionally misled the president about his personal conduct in the White House that relates directly to national security issues. In which case, Rove should change his name to Lt.Col Ollie North.
No matter what the legality issues are, Rove has proven that he either lied to Bush or he lied, in concert with Bush, to the investigators two years ago. Either way the issue of our national security on this matter is so grave that Rove cannot be trusted to be in the White House where other highly sensitive documents and matters are viewed and discussed.
Particularly in a time of war.
pbj @ 54
“Mr. Wilson also vehemently denied it when columnist Robert Novak first reported that his wife had played a role in selecting him for the Niger mission.”
So? Are you somehow suggesting that Rove would predict this behavior and outed his wife based on ESP? No, Rove committed his act of treason only because he did not like what Wilson published in the NYT.
I wonder how many CIA operatives died because of Rove’s treason?
“[Wilson] promptly signed up as adviser to the Kerry campaign. . .”
BFD. He knew Bush is an idiot and wanted Kerry to win. Isn’t that his right as a citizen?
“Senate Intelligence Committee report last July cited the note that Ms. Plame had sent recommending her husband for the Niger mission.”
Again, completely irrelevant. How a recommendation justifies Rove leaking classified information is beyond reason.
“No, that would be Mr. Wilson, who first “outed” himself as a CIA consultant in a melodramatic New York Times op-ed in July 2003.”
So? The CIA (with consent of the State Department’s African Affairs Bureau) sent him on a fact-finding mission (and Wilson did it on his own time). The mission was not classified. Did you notice that he is not being prosecuted for anything?
‘An inquiry headed by Britain’s Lord Butler delivered its own verdict on the 16 words: “We conclude also that the statement in President Bush’s State of the Union Address of 28 January 2003 that ‘The British Government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa’ was well-founded.”’
But, this turned out to be false. The documents were forged. IAEA said so, and the U.S. government said so. In other words, Wilson was spot on in his conclusions.
“In short, Joe Wilson hadn’t told the truth about what he’d discovered in Africa, how he’d discovered it, what he’d told the CIA about it, or even why he was sent on the mission.”
Huh????? Did you forget the long version. Nothing you have said questions anything about Wilson’s report.
“But if anyone can remember another public figure so entirely and thoroughly discredited, let us know.
“Let us know?” Oh. . . I see, pbj, you are copying a web page from some wingnut site. Haaaa, haaaa! The bullshit is not going to save Rove. It is only a question of whether he gets fired, gets pardoned, does jail time, or. . . .
“When you use the F-bombo over and over, I know you have no argument whatsoever. Only typical liberal filth and foul.
Not true. Does the work “fuck” somehow make it impossible for you to see the words around it?
“What Karl Rove did was to warn a reporter that was about to take the word of a liar like Wilson. He never said his wife was an agent or anything even close to that because Karl Rove didn’t even know that at the time. Your spittle producing rant has been all for naught.”
and
“Fair minded intelligent people can see through the criminal liberal media efforts to attack Karl Rove with nothing but unsubstantiated allegations as punishment for having the gall to tell the truth about liar andf traitor Joseph Wilson.”
Hmmm. . . you had me half convinced, pbj. But then I kept coming back to the CIA’s uncharacteristicly harsh criticism of the Whitehouse. I kept coming back to the CIA’s call for an investigation of who leaked classified information. I kept coming back to the seriousness that the Whitehouse initially seemed to give the leak issue. And, I keep wondering why there is STILL an investigation underway. And, why would the prosecutor threaten to and actually give jail time to reporters for refusing to name their source?
It sure looks like Rove is a criminal!
Reply@59,
“Treason” – Thanks Ann for a book that points out the true motive of liberals.
Good points that are accurate, particularly as they pertain to the percentage of GDP comparison. We are spending less as a percentage of GDP, but you left out several critical points that are germane to the issue. You are not taking in account the unprecedented GDP growth in the 90’s attributable to President Clinton’s economic policies.
What Clinton economic policies? The rampant corporate corruption that flowered under his watch only to be prosecuted under W’s watch? Why didn’t Worldom’s Bernie Ebbers ever get arrested under Clinton? It took Bush to do it.
Had we continued the paltry economic policies of Regan and Bush Sr. that contributed to 3 major recessions between 1980 – 1992, the percentage of GDP output today would not be as great and therefore, in comparison on a percentage basis, today’s war would be much more costly than it simply appears comparing percentage numbers.
Clinton was the lucky recipient of a tech bubble that burst later on. In fact the growth experienced is a direct result of the Reagan and Bush years. After the catastrophic Carter years when the nation was experiencing 21% interest rates, gas shortages and being told that the American dream could no longer be attained – Ronald Wilson Reagan stepped in and turned things around. Perhaps you weren’ even alive to experience liberal economics under Carter – I was sonny. I can tell you that what we have today is a dreamboat paradise comapred to the depression years of Carter.
However, FDR didn’t give tax breaks to the wealthiest Americans, either. Had he done that it would have made the deficits to fund WWII much more than it was, as the current president has done.In addition to your cost comparisons, you have to examine the scale of warfare we were fighting the compared to what we are doing today. Just to give you an idea based on KIA, we lost over 400,000 in WWII, compared to roughly 2,000 today. On a scale of how may American were involved that makes the military operations of WWII, as a percentage, 20,000% larger than today’s war.
Thank you for making the point that the deaths in Iraq are not nearly as large in scope as the liberal media is making it out. In fact, nore people die of smoking annually.
As for the scale being larger – I dispute that. If you mean in pure military terms, yes WWII was larger. But in this war we are engaging our military,intelligence and financial assets to help us defeat the enemy. In fact, we have created an entire new department of the US government – one which the Democrats opposed I might add.
As to the differences in the KIA numbers, that is a GOOD thing. The reason for that is that we have modern medical technology and protective armor that prevents a soldier from dying. That isn’t free and in my opinion it is money well spent. Others may feel differently however.
While you were doing your due diligence of the cost of the war as a percentage of GDP, did you also discover that the financial cost of the war was also 20,000% larger adjusted for inflation?
Well, since the 20,000% figure is fallacy, it obviously is a waste of time to do that calculation. I do know however that we interned AMERICAN CITIZENS just because they happened to be of Japanese ancestry.
Who was more qualified than Joe Wilson to travel to Niger to investigate the purchase or attempted purchases of yellow cake?
Well, Condoleeza Rice for one.
Based on Joe Wilson’s history in the region and his personal and political contacts, he was a wise choice if not the perfect choice to either confirm or deny the yellow cake reports.
Based upon is ardent partisan background, he was the worst choice to give an unbiased review.
Since his reports were negative, it didn’t serve to advance the cause of war that Bush wanted. The whole point of doing this type of groundwork is to determine if we should deploy our military into Harm’s Way or not.
Well his reports were actually taken within the CIA to support the
Unfortunately, it appears from the Downing Street memos that the Bush administration was “fixing the facts around the policy” and since they couldn’t fit Joe Wilson refutation of the claims of yellow cake, it appears that the White House decided they would make his wife pay dearly.
Your conspiracy theories aside, clearly for the Lord Butler report:
“We conclude also that the statement in President Bush’s State of the Union Address of 28 January 2003 that ‘The British Government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa’ was well-founded.”
It is becoming clear that Rove, through conversations with more than one reporter, set in motion the means that led to the discovery of the name of a CIA employee who didn’t need to have her name or work at the CIA, preventing the proliferation of WMD’s, made public.
No such thing is even remotely suggested. Karl Rove would have had to known about her.
Who is Judith Miller protecting? Rove? Make me laugh again.
Or could it be Mr. Wilson, who first “outed” himself as a CIA consultant in a melodramatic New York Times op-ed in July 2003?
It’s also equally clear, that there was a cooperative effort within the White House and Bush clearly knew what Rove had done, and therefore lied to the American public when he said he would cooperate with the investigation two years ago. Or, Rove had intentionally misled the president about his personal conduct in the White House that relates directly to national security issues. In which case, Rove should change his name to Lt.Col Ollie North.
Or it is entirely possible that Rove simply pointed out to a reporter that it wasn’t Dick Cheney who sent Wilson to Niger, it was traitor Joe’s wife who “works at the CIA”. And since this was not an “outing” Rove simply felt it didn’t bear mentioning. Was Rove to magically discern that partisan Democrats would try to spin a conspiracy out of it and tell Bush? The only thing Rove is guilty of is underestimating the burnig hatred that drives the left and the extremes to which they will go to create a tempest in a teapot.
No matter what the legality issues are, Rove has proven that he either lied to Bush or he lied, in concert with Bush, to the investigators two years ago. Either way the issue of our national security on this matter is so grave that Rove cannot be trusted to be in the White House where other highly sensitive documents and matters are viewed and discussed.
Particularly in a time of war.
“No matter what the legality issues are” – liberal speak for “we haven’t got a shread of evidence, use the smear mode instead”.
The only ones that cannot be trusted in the White House where highly sensitive documents and matters are viewed and discussed as the partisan Democrats who would waste the public’s time with another political diversion. Last week it was Tom Delay untl it turned out Nancy Pelosi and all the others had lobbiest paid trips that made Delay’s pale in comparison. What ‘scandal’ will t be tomorro?
dj@61,
“Mr. Wilson also vehemently denied it when columnist Robert Novak first reported that his wife had played a role in selecting him for the Niger mission.”
So? Are you somehow suggesting that Rove would predict this behavior and outed his wife based on ESP? No, Rove committed his act of treason only because he did not like what Wilson published in the NYT.
No, I am showing how much of a liar Mr Wilson is by showing how he denyied his wife had anything to do with his being sent to Niger and then the Senate Intelligence Report directly contradicted him.
Rove committed no act of treason – unlike Democrat Susan Lindauer – aid to Democrat Sen Carolyn Mosley Braun. She was jailed for spying for Saddam. I am sure glad that the party of the Saddam Spies is not running our national security!
I wonder how many CIA operatives died because of Rove’s treason?
None, because he never committed any treason – unlike Susan Lindauer and traitor Joe Wilson. Lindauer is in jail. It is only a matter of time for Wilson.
“[Wilson] promptly signed up as adviser to the Kerry campaign. . .”
BFD. He knew Bush is an idiot and wanted Kerry to win. Isn’t that his right as a citizen?
Not if he is manipulating official government reports for partisan purposes. We already know that Democrats will do anything to get elected including trading crack for fraudulent voter registrations and buying votes. What is a little intelligence report manipulation?
Here are the links (unlik Democrat, I show proof for my allegations):
Crack for registrations:
http://www.toledoblade.com/app...../410190343
Democrat party jailed for vote fraud:
http://www.stltoday.com/stltod.....enDocument
“Senate Intelligence Committee report last July cited the note that Ms. Plame had sent recommending her husband for the Niger mission.”
Again, completely irrelevant. How a recommendation justifies Rove leaking classified information is beyond reason.
Rove never leaked any information. The Senate Report proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that Joesph Wilson was sent to Niger as part of a Democrat effort to control the result of the report for partisan purposes. It goes directly to traitor Joe Wilson’s credibility.
“No, that would be Mr. Wilson, who first “outed” himself as a CIA consultant in a melodramatic New York Times op-ed in July 2003.”
So? The CIA (with consent of the State Department’s African Affairs Bureau) sent him on a fact-finding mission (and Wilson did it on his own time). The mission was not classified. Did you notice that he is not being prosecuted for anything?
Rove isn’t being prosecuted for anything and yet you are crying treason. Can you prove that Wilson is not being investigated for anything? Who is Judith Miller protecting? Not Rove, he told Cooper he had permission to divluge his name.
‘An inquiry headed by Britain’s Lord Butler delivered its own verdict on the 16 words: “We conclude also that the statement in President Bush’s State of the Union Address of 28 January 2003 that ‘The British Government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa’ was well-founded.”’
But, this turned out to be false. The documents were forged. IAEA said so, and the U.S. government said so. In other words, Wilson was spot on in his conclusions.
I wouldn’t trust anything the IAEA said. After all, they are the same agency that wanted to delcare Iraq didn’t have a nuclear program after the first Gulf War and it turned out that Saddam’s brother in law came forward and showed that indeed there was a nuclear program. Up till that time the IAEA was going to give Iraq a clean ill of health.
“In short, Joe Wilson hadn’t told the truth about what he’d discovered in Africa, how he’d discovered it, what he’d told the CIA about it, or even why he was sent on the mission.”
Huh????? Did you forget the long version. Nothing you have said questions anything about Wilson’s report.
“But if anyone can remember another public figure so entirely and thoroughly discredited, let us know.
“Let us know?” Oh. . . I see, pbj, you are copying a web page from some wingnut site. Haaaa, haaaa! The bullshit is not going to save Rove. It is only a question of whether he gets fired, gets pardoned, does jail time, or. . . .
Or get’s a medal?
“When you use the F-bombo over and over, I know you have no argument whatsoever. Only typical liberal filth and foul.
Not true. Does the work “fuck” somehow make it impossible for you to see the words around it?
Well, if you could keep your carnal desires out of the intellectual discussion, you wouldn’t look like you aren’t serious.
“What Karl Rove did was to warn a reporter that was about to take the word of a liar like Wilson. He never said his wife was an agent or anything even close to that because Karl Rove didn’t even know that at the time. Your spittle producing rant has been all for naught.”
and
“Fair minded intelligent people can see through the criminal liberal media efforts to attack Karl Rove with nothing but unsubstantiated allegations as punishment for having the gall to tell the truth about liar andf traitor Joseph Wilson.”
Hmmm. . . you had me half convinced, pbj. But then I kept coming back to the CIA’s uncharacteristicly harsh criticism of the Whitehouse.
And what characterization would that be? Please provide me the uote and the link.
I kept coming back to the CIA’s call for an investigation of who leaked classified information. I kept coming back to the seriousness that the Whitehouse initially seemed to give the leak issue. And, I keep wondering why there is STILL an investigation underway. And, why would the prosecutor threaten to and actually give jail time to reporters for refusing to name their source?
It is a serious matter. But the investigation is ongoing and no prosecutions have been announced. You want to jump to conclusions before the investigation is finished. Ask yourself “Would ANY NYT reporter schill for the Bush administration?”
I am content to wait for announcement of a conviction before passing judgement – are you?
It sure looks like Rove is a criminal!
That is in your partisan mind. In this country we have a saying “innocent until PROVEN guilty”. You know, like those Democrats who were trading crack for fraudulent registrations and the ones buyin votes in St Louis. They were PROVEN guilty. Unlike anything that has been written about Rove.
pbj @ 63
“Based upon is ardent partisan background, he was the worst choice to give an unbiased review.”
You think that someone would accept a government mission to investigate a serious charge related to WMD, and then fake the results because they are a Democrat?
If so, you are a fucking idiot! Wilson worked for Democratic and Republican presidents.
And, his report was correct!
Rove may not have liked the report, or he may not have believed the report, but that is no justification for destroying CIA assetts. That, my wingnut friend, is criminal activity.
pbj @ 65
“In this country we have a saying “innocent until PROVEN guilty”.’
No problem, I am all for a completely fair trial before being punished for his crimes. I mean, we don’t want to hang the man unless it is certain he committed treason. We don’t want jail time unless he has committed crimes.
That said, I have no problems, based on the evidence presented so far, accusing Rove, calling for Rove to be fired, and calling for Rove to be tried for his crimes. I’ve a right to do so, and will make full use of that right if I choose.
dj@65,
You think that someone would accept a government mission to investigate a serious charge related to WMD, and then fake the results because they are a Democrat?
If so, you are a fucking idiot! Wilson worked for Democratic and Republican presidents.
And, his report was correct!
Yes, I do. After all, we know the depths Democrat will go to et elected (crack for registrations, buying votes [want the links?]). So I do not doubt for a microsecond that a guy like Wilson saw a chance to use his position to further the “cause”.
And the Lord Butler report disputes Wison’s report.
Rove may not have liked the report, or he may not have believed the report, but that is no justification for destroying CIA assetts. That, my wingnut friend, is criminal activity.
Well, Rove did not deatroy any CIA asset. Pointing out that the Wilson allegation that his wife had nothing to do with sending him to Niger and Dick Cheny sent him, pointing out that those allegations were false was not “destroying a CIS asset”.
I find the liberal concern for CIA assets quite touching considering it is the CIA whom the left blames for much of the trouble sof the world. Post 60’s liberals usually work up a conspiracy or two involving the CIA as the bad guy to explain th woes of the world. Your sudden about face is rather uncharacteristic of the left in general.
dj@66,
“In this country we have a saying “innocent until PROVEN guilty”.’
No problem, I am all for a completely fair trial before being punished for his crimes. I mean, we don’t want to hang the man unless it is certain he committed treason. We don’t want jail time unless he has committed crimes.
That said, I have no problems, based on the evidence presented so far, accusing Rove, calling for Rove to be fired, and calling for Rove to be tried for his crimes. I’ve a right to do so, and will make full use of that right if I choose.
You are doing just what you acuse the Bush administration of doing in Iraq! How ironic!
If so, you are a fucking idiot! Wilson worked for Democratic and Republican presidents.
Dj – there you go again with references to your carnal acts. Sorry – I can’t help you out there.
pbj @ 68
“You are doing just what you acuse the Bush administration of doing in Iraq! How ironic!”
No irony. It is a time honored tradition. It seems to me that you are doing exactly the same thing for Wilson that I am doing for Karl Rove. The difference is, the evidences is all pointing to Rove.
Don’t forget, there is another senior administration official involved, as well. I anixously await learning who the other criminal is.
No irony. It is a time honored tradition.
Well, since Democrats have traditionally been guilty of that for whcih they accuse others, you are right. It is a time honored Democrat tradition!
pbj @ 71
“Well, since Democrats have traditionally been guilty of that for whcih they accuse others, you are right. It is a time honored Democrat tradition!”
Nope. . . it is a non-partisan tradition. I’m doing it, and I am not a Democrat. You are doing exactly the same thing to Wilson, and somehow I would guess you are not a democrat either.
PBJ @ 62
“As for the scale being larger – I dispute that. If you mean in pure military terms, yes WWII was larger. But in this war we are engaging our military,intelligence and financial assets to help us defeat the enemy. In fact, we have created an entire new department of the US government – one which the Democrats opposed I might add.”
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!
You are sooooo right. In WWII we ONLY used our military, not our intelleigence or financial assests. “There you go again” just because you say we did it on cheap doesn’t make it so.
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA
You dolt!
‘“Treason” – Thanks Ann for a book that points out the true motive of liberals.’
Thanks, Al, for showing us specifically how Ann, and the righties, use numbers to lie.
The irony follows on the next post.
Here’s my post:
On a scale of how may American were involved that makes the military operations of WWII, as a percentage, 20,000% larger than today’s war.
I just made up numbers and figures just like, Ann, to prove my point. And, what does Pee-nut Butt-er & Jelly for brains do? He swallows it hook, line & sinker!
Ahh, man. That’s funny. Taken in by Ann’s gullible tactics.
More PBJ idiot-ims @ 62
“What Clinton economic policies? The rampant corporate corruption that flowered under his watch only to be prosecuted under W’s watch? Why didn’t WorldCom’s Bernie Ebbers ever get arrested under Clinton? It took Bush to do it.”
Well, PBJ, as much as I would have loved President Clinton to have arrested him, it would have taken an amendment to the Constitution to pull it off. You see, they didn’t declare bankruptcy until 2002.
Read the link for yourself. http://money.cnn.com/2002/07/1.....ankruptcy/
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Plus, this character is no Lib. He’s cut of the same cloth as Lay and Skilling. Hardcore Conservatives. My oh my. Aren’t you proud.
Actually, you probably are seeing how folks like you vote your “values.” There they are front and center.
PBJ @ 62 (again)
“Thank you for making the point that the deaths in Iraq are not nearly as large in scope as the liberal media is making it out. In fact, nore people die of smoking annually.”
Here’s the key difference: In WWII we weren’t lied to for reason to go to war. Smoking, is a choice. Following orders of your Commander in Chief is not. Do you see the difference?
But nice try at cannon fodder.
PBJ @ 62
“As to the differences in the KIA numbers, that is a GOOD thing. The reason for that is that we have modern medical technology and protective armor that prevents a soldier from dying. That isn’t free and in my opinion it is money well spent. Others may feel differently however.’
Everybody check your watches, I think they’re running late with the med’s at the old fart’s home.
See my post regarding lying our way into war. It’s never a GOOD thing to kill 1,762 Americans over a lie. But the reason the causality figures are so low has more to do with the sheer numbers of the opposing force, say, Germany or Japan, and the sophisticated war machine they had as compared to roadside bombs where the materials to make them were stolen from weapons depots that were left unprotected by the faulty planning of the Bush admin.
And, please don’t be so UN-AMERICAN as to blame the military planners for not securing those sites. I know you’re a part of the “use up the military and blame them before Bush crowd”, but don’t do it here.
If Bush was really going after WMD’s he would have insisted on force structure large enough to handle the invasion and secure weapons / military sites.
PBJ @ 62 does it ever stop?
“I do know however that we interned AMERICAN CITIZENS just because they happened to be of Japanese ancestry.”
GITMO
PBJ @ 63
My question from a previous post:
“Who was more qualified than Joe Wilson to travel to Niger to investigate the purchase or attempted purchases of yellow cake?”
Your answer:
“Well, Condoleeza Rice for one.”
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAA AGAIN.
C’mon, PBJ, surely you know Joe Wilson’s history in the region. In order to pursue an investigation into uranium / yellow cake sales, you have to have the trust and confidence of many people.
While Dr. Rice is a remarkably intelligent person, she has neither the background nor the experience to conduct such an important task.
PBJ 2 63
Based upon is (his) ardent partisan background, he was the worst choice to give an unbiased review
Uh, Pee-nut, he gave an unbiased report, that was the problem. Get it? Had he said “There was Yellow Cake sold to Iraq, that would have been biased towards Bush’s camp. And, that was have provided justification for Bush’s lie.
Are we going to fast?
PBJ @ 63 some more stuff. . .
“Your conspiracy theories aside, clearly for the Lord Butler report:
“We conclude also that the statement in President Bush’s State of the Union Address of 28 January 2003 that ‘The British Government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa’ was well-founded.”
Do us a favor. Reach over and nudge the good Lord Butler and see if he’ll wake up from his dirt nap. When he does ask him if the guilt over the his report and the timing of it caused him to, you know, check himself out.
PBJ @ 63
“No matter what the legality issues are” – liberal speak for “we haven’t got a shread of evidence, use the smear mode instead”
Well, you’re right here, I don’t have a shred of evidence, but the Grand Jury will.
And like the cheap paper shredder in Karl’s office, I’m done shredding your for now. I’ll catch you later. If you’d like let us know which old folks home your in and we’ll tell them they’re late with the Prozac.
GBS@80,
Here’s the key difference: In WWII we weren’t lied to for reason to go to war. Smoking, is a choice. Following orders of your Commander in Chief is not. Do you see the difference?
But nice try at cannon fodder.
In WWII the opposition party didn’t commit treason in order to see us defeated – unlike today’s Democrat party where we have Democrat Susan Lindauer the aid to Democrat Den Carolyn Mosley Braun spying for the enemy and Democrat John Walker Lindh fighting us at Mazar El Sharif.
Did you scream “Allah Akbar” when they slit Johnny Span’s throat or sliced off Nick Berg’s head?
Oh and in WWII – Germany never attacked us. I guess FDR was a liar too. And we have not incarcerated American Citizens just because they look like the enemy as did FDR.
General BS@83,
My question from a previous post:
“Who was more qualified than Joe Wilson to travel to Niger to investigate the purchase or attempted purchases of yellow cake?”
Your answer:
“Well, Condoleeza Rice for one.”
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAA AGAIN.
C’mon, PBJ, surely you know Joe Wilson’s history in the region. In order to pursue an investigation into uranium / yellow cake sales, you have to have the trust and confidence of many people.
While Dr. Rice is a remarkably intelligent person, she has neither the background nor the experience to conduct such an important task.
Joe Wilson wouldn’t know yellow cake from a bundt cake. BEing able to chum it up with some Frenchies over Foie Gras doesn’t mean he is an expert in yellow cake uranium, which by the way happens to be the MAJOR export product of Niger.
GBS@84,
Uh, Pee-nut, he gave an unbiased report, that was the problem. Get it? Had he said “There was Yellow Cake sold to Iraq, that would have been biased towards Bush’s camp. And, that was have provided justification for Bush’s lie.
Are we going to fast?
Uh Mr Great Bull Shitter, you do not start out an unbiased investigation by asking hubby to “go check out this crazy report”. Once you say that, you are indicated what conclusion you will come to.
It was all int he Senate Report. The report said Plame told committee staffers that she relayed the CIA’s request to her husband, saying, “there’s this crazy report” about a purported deal for Niger to sell uranium to Iraq.
Now please tell me they were unbiased again. I want a laugh.
GS@85,
Gen BS:
Do us a favor. Reach over and nudge the good Lord Butler and see if he’ll wake up from his dirt nap. When he does ask him if the guilt over the his report and the timing of it caused him to, you know, check himself out.
How typical of liberals. You don’t like the result of a truthful report so you need to make a lame quip about Lord Butler.
GBS@86,
Well, you’re right here, I don’t have a shred of evidence, but the Grand Jury will.
And like the cheap paper shredder in Karl’s office, I’m done shredding your for now. I’ll catch you later. If you’d like let us know which old folks home your in and we’ll tell them they’re late with the Prozac.
HAd to get your diaper changed? I don’t blame you. You were so full of it that sooner or later I knew your diaper would overflow. Come back soon sonny. You have much more to learn.
pbj @ 90
“How typical of liberals. You don’t like the result of a truthful report so you need to make a lame quip about Lord Butler.”
The report may well have been truthful when it was written.
Problem is, the contents are dead wrong! All serious parties involved (U.S. government, U.K., U.N.) now acknowledge that the yellowcake issue was nothing more than a badly forged document—a supposed contract between Iraq and Niger for low-grade (yellowcake) Uraninum. Among other problems, the document was “signed” with the name of a minister who was not part of the government when the documents were dated!
GBS@82…you know those bombers in london were also citizens of great britian. being a citizen does not necessarily make you harmless, does it? during times of war especially…….
let me guess, not only are you not of japanese ancestry…you have completely forgotten that it was a democratic president that came up with the whole internment camp idea, right?
CG @ 93
No way have I forgotten that FDR was the president during the interment of American citizens. You see, that’s the beauty of the truth. FDR did the wrong thing on that issue. He did it out of FEAR of our enemy, and for that he wound up making more enemies than necessary.
Your comments are making my points for me. Thank you. You see, those citizens of Britain that more than likely are the perps, are not naturalized citizens. They were born in England. The point being is that Bush’s mismanagement of the war in general and processing SOME innocent people at GITMO, are based on fear thinking (pre 9/11 mindset in this case if you will) And it’s causing citizens of our allies, and most likely of our country, too, to take up arms against us in our fight against terror.
That’s the point. Bush’s fear of our enemy and mismanagement of the War on Terror is causing other people to become our enemies who would otherwise have no axe to grind with us.
Thanks for your input though.
You should stick to running your AmWay business CG.
PBJ
How thick headed are you. Even IF Joe Wilson went to Niger with the intent of making a false report full of bias information that no yellow cake was sold to Iraq.
He’s still right!
No yellow cake / uranium was sold to Iraq. The sale of nuclear bomb making materials was part of Bush’s reasoning for going to war.
I won’t argue with you that Saddam was some great guy. He wasn’t. I’ll even support you on the fact he supported international terrorism. I might even be willing to give you partial support that he was mixed up with Al Qaeda, maybe not directly in the 9/11 attacks, but in contact with terrorist no less.
But Bush’s false assertions on Iraq, and mismanaging the war front in Iraq is how Bush made the wrong war, wrong place, wrong time. Had he been more statesman like (smarter) he could have easily made Iraq the right war, right place, right time. March 2003 under those premises was not the right way to approach Iraq.
That’s his failure, and his alone, not Joe Wilson’s.
Now, get over it. Your choice for president is a failure. OK. Deal with it by not supporting him any more. Your support only makes it worse for our country and our military.
CG @ 93
Just to pile on my comments at 94. Ever hear of learning from history, or you’re doomed to repeat it?
Why do you continue your support Bush in his flagrant mistakes when you seem to know full good and well that interning innocent people is the wrong thing to do?
APB on PBJ!!
If anyone sees PBJ will you please pass along this message. Thanks.
PBJ
Are you going to answer my challenge on the “Dems to introduce Resolution of Inquiry into Plame’s outing” thread? Posts 60-64
Thanks,
GBS