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Saturday Night Open Thread

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  1. 1

    Love The Count!

    If you’re still wondering how to vote on I-1183, you might want to take a look at what the folks at Dry Fly have to say about it.

    http://www.dryflydistilling.com/blog/
    Our Stance on I-1183
    October 26th, 2011
    Dry Fly is not opposed to privatization of the liquor system. And in our opinion I1183, and the $22 million large retailers have invested, is not about privatization. From talking with customers and friends over the last year, we have learned that the two primary objectives that spirit consumers want from a change in the liquor system is greater market selection (i.e. more new or unique items at more locations), and lower pricing. In our opinion I-1883 delivers neither. Big box retailers are not in the selection business. Their objective is to sell quantity, usually in a limited number of items. This means brands like ours and others from Craft Distillers may not have the volume to meet the needs of big box stores. Those who want selection usually visit a specialty retailer, but I-1183 virtually limits the creation of such specialty retailer with its 10,000 square foot minimum. Additionally, we are very confident that with the addition of new fees (aka taxes), and distribution and retailer markups which our experience in over 20 “open” states is significantly more than proponents quote, prices on most spirits will rise. There will be exceptions, but primarily through private label products, or discount offerings from the largest producers. Some say these taxes or fees will decrease over time, but with a multi-billion dollar deficit, we don’t

  2. 2

    @1
    Trader Joe’s qualifies under the 10,000 square foot minimum and I have a feeling they’ll capture the “specialty retailer” niche. But I think they’re right that the price of liquor might go up.

    I’m rooting for I-1183 to pass merely because I’d love to know which predictions will come true and which ones won’t.

  3. 3

    WHO WILL STAND FOR PATIENT RIGHTS? I-502 will imprison an entire population, whether it is in their own home or in jail, I-502 will make it illegal for cannabis patients to drive. That is, unless they give up their medication for days, or weeks.

    The legalization crowd has tossed patients under the bus with their infighting and stubborn greed for fame and power. There is no compromise and no give to save the patients from even further wrongful prosecutions, all in the name of legalizing cannabis for the recreational user.

    People are dying, and now you walk all over them, ignoring your fellow man when they have fallen. Instead you stomp right over the top, in your selfish quest to get high legally. What happens when you fall? Who will help you?

    I am a patient. I am not impaired but I will fail your test every time. But you don’t want to see me. You want me to stay inside my tiny little run-down apartment, staring at four walls, because you gave me up so you could smoke a joint without fear of arrest. My suffering is blood on the hands of every single one of you who supports this, and it also falls on the backs of those of you who are standing by the wayside watching it happen and not lifting a finger yourself.

    For those of you who say patients should work for their own protections, I say we already did! Stop this criminalization of the sick, dying and disabled. Or just get it over with and shoot every one of us, because it’s the same damn thing!

  4. 4

    @3

    I’ve been saying this the whole time.

    The potheads dont give a shit about the medical marijuana users…its all a bunch of bullshit so they can get high without getting busted by the man.

    just a bunch selfish, dishonest fucks – most of which are a bunch of derelict, burn-out losers.

  5. 5

    Very interesting comments @1.

    @2: In terms of wine and beer, the local Safeway beats TJ in terms of local/regional selection. Regional selection at TJ seems small and stagnant, with a constant heavy churn of bulk/house brands. A politburo in Monrovia basically decides what they sell, even if all their signs are handmade, it’s how they keep prices low.

  6. 6

    My irritation with 1183 is the provision that locks up the competition for the ones buying the initiative process. That the initiative is winning in the polls proves that despite what we like to think of ourselves, we are helpless to the advertising message and incapable of thinking for ourselves. So big corporations can take away from this that as long as they keep pumping the money into legislative matters in states, they can manipulate our tiny little brains to vote for their interests no matter what.

  8. 8

    @6: Hopefully Ohio will prove that a state initiative process can occasionally deliver what it was supposedly designed and sold to us for.

    I’ll be depressed if 1183 passes. The price of having the initiative process is the onus being turned on low-information voters to make democracy work.

    But then on much of what gets passed by initiative, most of us are inevitably low-information voters. You can read the bill, but it could take months of careful research to understand the state-wide implications.

    I thought we created legislatures to keep us from being ruled by warlords and plutocrats?

  9. 9

    Yellowpup, I really dislike initiatives for the reason you describe. The cost to implement is never well understood and many voters seem to have in their mind examples of “waste” that can be mitigated to fund whatever initiative they vote for. It never works that way. And one person’s “waste” is anothers vital service.

    With 1183, the information most voters have probably comes from the TV ads. Just like the repeal of the pop tax. And those were funded by the American Beverage Association and Coke and Pepsi.

    I bet that one of the motivators for favor in 1183 is the thought “hey I like Costco.”

  10. 10

    Who the fuck is Kim Kardashian, and why the fuck should I care about her divorce?

    1183 is all about corporate rent seeking, and voting a resounding “NO” should be a no-brainer.

    Another thing…some progressives favor this measure because they will get more “choice” for boutique type spirits at the local Costco, spirits that are not available at the local liquor store. This is pure bullshit. How many Ferraris does Costco sell? Case closed.

  11. 11

    Privatizers: To get the same tax revenues as we get from the current system AND get lower booze prices more booze will, ceterus paribus, have to be sold. Please submit a 200 word essay as to the social positives to be realized by our society consuming more booze.

    OTO, if privatizing does not lower prices (demand curve is inelastic) what have we gained other than destroying some good paying public jobs?

  12. 12

    The popular consensus here in the HA echo chamber seems to be that the state-run booze stores are the best business model available in terms of low consumer prices and money being fed into the state ‘s piggy bank.

    if thats the case, why dont you support the state running everything and being the sole provider for all goods and services?

    state run software stores? state run vitamin shops? state run lumber stores?

    this should be interesting…………..

  13. 13

    4 – Shorter asshat: anything that gives me an opportunity to hate gives me a woody.

    3 – Welcome to initiative politics. The unscientific intoxication standard has been discussed here by Lee and condemned as well. Folks from all walks including Republican prosecutors like John McKay have had a hand in this initiative and decisions are made as to what makes an initiative most palatable to the voters. With this intoxication standard as bad as it is, you WON’T see commercials with cops and EMTs complaining of scraping stoned drivers off the roads.

    12 – shorter asshat troll: I’m so fucking ignorant I’m damned proud I don’t know what I’m fucking talking about when I’m not freaking LYING about people I hate.

  14. 14

    this thing is gonna do some damage

    Yep, it caused the National Restaurant Association AFAIK over 100k in damage all told.

  16. 16

    Nothing says “hey it’s the weekend” like a bunch of people
    getting shot.

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/.....5164.story
    CHICAGO— Chicago police on Sunday were investigating a shooting that left three people dead outside a long-established bakery.

    Two men and a woman were killed Saturday on the city’s South Side, police spokesman Dan O’Brien said. The three were sitting in a car outside A Piece of Cake bakery about 5 p.m. when a gunman from a nearby alley shot at the vehicle, authorities said.

    “God bless them because they didn’t deserve this. No one deserves this,” she said. “We have to be careful with the world we live in because no one is safe.”

    A man and woman died at the scene. Chicago fire officials said the other man later died at Advocate Christ Medical Center in Oak Lawn.

    The Cook County medical examiner’s office has not identified the three victims; autopsies were scheduled for Sunday. All victims were believed to be in their 20s.

  18. 18

    Welcome to The Long Emergency, folks.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15613162
    BP’s sale of its Argentina assets falls through
    A deal to sell off the Argentinian assets of oil giant BP has fallen through, after its partner withdrew.

    BP had hoped to sell its 60% stake in Pan American Energy (PAE) to its partner in Argentina, Bridas Energy Holdings.

    Bridas is 50% owned by CNOOC, China’s largest offshore oil producer.

    But on Sunday CNOOC said it was terminating the deal, signed a year ago in the wake of the Gulf of Mexico oil spill.

    BP had hoped the sale would help it meet the costs of the spill.

  19. 19

    @4 I’ll take a pothead over a Republican any day.

    P.S.: I’m not saying potheads are great; all I’m saying is Republicans are terrible.

  20. 20

    Maddow: Herman Cain is a practical-joke candidate, and no one is getting it:

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26.....7#45171907

    – Speeches quoting Pokemon and Jackie Chan movies
    – 9-9-9 plan from Sim City
    – Insanely funny commercials
    – Still no real staff to speak of
    – etc.

    Tail wagging the dog… “We should have known at Pokemon.”

  21. 21

    @11 State liquor store clerks and warehouse workers aren’t all that well paid. Better than minimum, yes; better than McDonald’s or KFC, yes; better than picking apples at $10 – $15 a bin. But those aren’t $50,000-a-year jobs or even $35,000-a-year jobs. And contrary to what Sucky Politics claims, nobody ever earned $100K a year by manning a register in a state liquor store.

  22. 22

    @20 Okay, I get it, Cain is a joke candidate and his campaign is a put-on. And now that he realizes his little joke could drag him into the White House, he’s scared. Yeah, I get it, I know now who leaked the sexual harassment story — do you get it yet?

  23. 23

    Heh. Cain’s campaign has been a hustle all along??? Say it’s not so!

    Gee does this sound familiar?? Oh yeah the escapee from the Mad Zoo in Alaska harvested some cool millions from it. Why not the former CEO and disgraced lobbyist harvesting relative peanuts by shilling for the Koch brothers?

    Higher speaking fees, multi million dollar Faux News gig.. Sounds pretty good for just playing a clown for the clueless tea baggers mentally conditioned by years of right wing hate talk radio.

  25. 25

    @22: They have to find a classic way to exit the main character and end the movie! Look for the film the summer before the election.

  27. 27

    @17

    oh BS -they are the same given the context of the anti 1183 arguements.

    lets try this on for size: state run cigarette shops?

    state run beer stores.

    well?????

  29. 29

    28 – And “so” it seems as usual you don’t have a freaking clue.

    Stop the pretense – you vote R 99.99 percent of time allowing for the Monson-approved glibertarians and pseudo-D’s like Tim Sheldon and Brian Sonntag (maybe not him because you already proved you’re ignorant about his job).

  30. 30

    @26

    careful that you dont date any gay male doctors gleeman, or you could end up like this..

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new.....d-son.html

    to summarize gleeman, the flame-doc was upset because his partner was bailing on him – and gee, they just adopted a little 3 year old.

    answer: slice the throat of the 3 year old and stab the boyfriend.

    nice.

    all thats missing is gleeman’s 1977 Dodge playground torture van.

    asshole.

  31. 31

    @29

    go eat a dick, lazy latino. you dont have a clue about how I vote, but I got a clue about you…

    how come you dont support state run cigarette stores?

    nvermind, just keep to your basement, you cant handle the real world.

  32. 32

    ylb needs his nanny state like he needs his basement…

    not to worry ylb, even in a down economy, this will be close to a record setting year for us…our taxes will keep you and your kind fed and warm.

    its all good….

  33. 33

    31 – Yes I do. You vote right wing. Tea Baggers vote right wing, Republicans vote ever more batshit insane right wing and so do you. You do this because you HATE anyone who has an ounce of sense in their heads and don’t share your knee-jerk hatreds. You HATE anyone who is different from you.

    And lately you’ve proved you’re a racist.

    State run cigarette stores? That what’s known as a red herring. You can’t argue or think logically.

    It’s your life.. As long as we don’t cross paths save for this comment board, it’s all good for me. Can’t say the same for anyone else though.

  34. 34

    @33

    No, you dont have a clue – you think you do, because you think everyone is a lemming like you.

    and yes, lucky for you we dont cross paths…very lucky. with as much time as you spend in the basement, I doubt you even cross paths with your old lady, if she is still around, more than twice a week.

    the only hatred here is the vile garbage pumped out by you and the loser Lee Rujax Rosenberg.

    I think you hate so much because you get owned so much…j

    jealousy…its whats for dinner at the ylb house…..every….god……damned…..day….

    good luck with being mediocre…

  36. 36

    34 – zzzzZZZzzzzz… Why don’t you re-read your “mediocre” Hoover historical analysis.

    You really “owned” that bullshit…

  37. 37

    ya…how ironic…Roosevelt claiming hoover was a socialist and was spending too much money.

    sucks when real history punches you in the eye.

    I suppose by now I am getting used to ungrateful, jealous asshats like you….there are lots them in washington.

    just remember, my healthy income allows you to “live off the net”, every day. It seems the stupid are always the ones being supported, and yet they still ask for more

    how come you arent down at westlake? oh, I forgot, you are too scared to come out of the house….nice life, fatbody.

    owned.

  38. 38

    I would love to keep bitch slapping you all over the place, but I need to run out and pick up a new boat….cant wait until I get to pollute more lakes next year…it will be epic.

    have fun in the basement, loser.

  39. 39

    and yes, lucky for you we dont cross paths…very lucky.

    zzzzZZZZzzz.. We do.. right here.. and despite the bit of boredom you’ve shown lately I’ll repeat my prediction: you’ll be here a year from now because you enjoy the charge hating others gives you..

    You obviously don’t care about arguments or the issues that much or even defending your obviously shallow views..

    You care about verbally abusing others who don’t toe your line.

    Carry on.. Your kind always does.

  41. 41

    lets try this on for size: state run cigarette shops?
    state run beer stores.
    well?????

    Fine with me, fuck-nuts. Oh? You thought that would end things? That all of us would run and cring at being called “socialists”? Fuck you, you fascist prick. Merely the beginning, lickspittle.

    Try this one on for size, doofus. Nearly all drugs are highly regulated. The dispensing of them is also highly regulated. Start from there, you sick moron.

  42. 42

    @21: noted. The problem is this: Cheap booze for the sake of cheap booze does not strike me as a particularly sane social policy. Your milage may vary.

  43. 43

    lets try this on for size: state run cigarette shops?

    state run beer stores.

    well?????

    I’m not universally opposed to getting rid of the liquor stores. But, I don’t like Costco trying to buy its self a law or a shared monopoly status on a product. I also doubt the costs to the state will as low as Costco says or that the benefits will be as high.

    I’m a “if it ain’t broke don’t try and fix it” kinda guy and while I do see the liquor stores as a bit anachronistic, I don’t see them as broken. They’re revenue positive for starters. So, for the time being, I’d rather leave them as they are. If law makers want to get rid of the stores they can hold hearings and have their folks write the new laws.

  45. 45

    @34 et al.: These yahoos tattoo “wingnut” on their foreheads, then think we don’t know how they vote?

  47. 47

    Yes. That must be it. If you’re against 1183 then you must by default be for the state running the liquor business. Simplistic little minds draw silly conclusions.

  48. 48

    It looks like it’s going to be Daniel Ortega, FTW!

    Reuters – Nicaraguan President Daniel Ortega, a former Marxist guerrilla leader, looks likely to win re-election on Sunday after heavy social spending won him strong support among the country’s poor.

    Ortega has overseen a period of economic progress in his five years in power, backed by financial aid from his socialist ally in Venezuela, President Hugo Chavez.

    A former commander of the Sandinista rebel army that won power in a 1979 revolution and a Cold War adversary of the United States, Ortega has solidified his hold on the Central American country with programs to improve health and education, microcredits and gifts of livestock.

    “He has helped the poor. Other presidents didn’t do that,” said law student Wendy Gonzalez, 19, after casting her vote in a poor area of the capital of Managua.

    Polling booths closed in Nicaragua at 6 p.m. local time (7 p.m. EST) and preliminary results are due from 9 p.m.

    I don’t really care, but I know Oretga makes the some of the righties heads spin, so I like to point it out.

  49. 49

    47 – No the Sandinistas aren’t anything to write home about. They had some of the moral high ground after overthrowing the ugly Somoza dictatorship and fighting back against the Raygun supported thugs the Contras but now they’re just a hopelessly corrupt political entity.

    And Daniel Ortega may even be a child molester:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/n.....28262.html

  50. 50

    You’ve just got to love the shit the WSJ is slinging about Bank Transfer day. First dig the title of the article.

    Credit Unions Poach Clients
    http://online.wsj.com/article/.....85822.html

    As if clients can be stolen away illegally. What nonsense.

    And of course they point out that credit unions don’t pay taxes.

    It won’t be clear for several weeks how many deposits moved to credit unions—the member-owned cooperatives that can’t sell stock and don’t pay taxes—on Bank Transfer Day.

    Because they’re non-profits!

    I like this one:

    Some bankers complain that credit unions have outgrown their status as a lender of last resort to poor and rural communities, and should be forced to pay taxes just like for-profit banks.

    “At a time when state and local governments are struggling with lower revenue, why should some of these credit unions be subsidized if they are not going to provide those services?”

    Um… They do provide those services! It’s not the credit unions fault that banks treat people so poorly that they drive customers away.

    Hmm…

    Yet several large commercial credit unions, which invest money on behalf of their retail members, went bust after loading up on high-risk mortgages during the housing bubble.

    9 credit unions have gone under so far this year.
    http://www.creditunionsonline......sings.html

    By my count 43 banks have gone under since the beginning of June. According to this very same article 1 in 3 Americans have an account at a credit union, so it’s not like they’re a rare thing or anything.
    http://www.fdic.gov/bank/indiv.....klist.html

  51. 51

    @49 I don’t claim to be a tax expert, but it seems to me that if credit unions were subjected to taxation, they still wouldn’t owe taxes because THEY DON’T MAKE ANY PROFITS!!

    P.S., This isn’t your grandfather’s WSJ; Rupert Murdoch owns it now.

  52. 52

    I think the vast majority of Americans see through the corporate bullshit much better than the corporate bullshitters think they do.

  53. 53

    @47 “Ortega has overseen a period of economic progress in his five years in power, backed by financial aid from his socialist ally in Venezuela, President Hugo Chavez.”

    Gee, where does the money Chavez gives to Ortega come from? Anybody know? Wanna guess?

    If you don’t like these guys, park your car and walk.

  54. 54

    Here is an excellent piece by that Great American, Professor Frances Fox Piven.

    What are we doing to ourselves by stunting the social and economic development – no, security – and therefore physical and emotional health, of this GIGANTIC slice of our citizens?

    How do the genius ‘job creators’ think our national future is going to unfold with half – or more – of the citizens hobbled in poverty?

    We think health care costs are high now – wait until all these people with high stress, no recreation and poor nutrition get older. Well, by then there will be no shred of decent public access to health care, so fuck ’em anyway.

    We are being led by a pack of venal aspiring neofeudalists who want nothing more than the dismantling of all social institutions and a return to serfdom of the 13th century. Wait ’til the 1% starts fighting amongst itself – the 0.01% percent against the 0.99% – as the zero-sum dynamics play out.

    If we don’t do something creative, and radical, and egalitarian and communal – it’s going to get very very ugly.

  55. 55

    If you don’t like these guys, park your car and walk.

    Right fucking on.

    We could have spent the $1 trillion we spent in Iraq, and instead of it going to military contractors, we could be the proud owners of a shiny new windmill-driven clean energy infrastructure, and owned all the patents to boot. AND the tin-pot assholes in Venezuela and Saudi Arabia and Houston would be out on their fat assess, looking for gainful employment.

  56. 56

    Jack Abramoff: The lobbyist’s playbook

    But the “best way” to get a congressional office to do his bidding – he says – was to offer a staffer a job that could triple his salary.

    Abramoff: When we would become friendly with an office and they were important to us, and the chief of staff was a competent person, I would say or my staff would say to him or her at some point, “You know, when you’re done working on the Hill, we’d very much like you to consider coming to work for us.” Now the moment I said that to them or any of our staff said that to ’em, that was it. We owned them. And what does that mean? Every request from our office, every request of our clients, everything that we want, they’re gonna do. And not only that, they’re gonna think of things we can’t think of to do.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18.....bsCarousel

  58. 58

    @52

    Yeah, that’s part what makes me laugh. I’m the guy driving the econo-car (rarely) and riding a bike. While the guys that do the bitching keep driving big trucks and SUV’s and complaining about me on my bike.

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