Seems that the people of the United Kingdom actually kind of like their health care system, and don’t take too kindly to the infamous lies being spread on Fox Noise. From BBC:
Labour has stepped up its criticism of Daniel Hannan, who waded into the debate over Barack Obama’s health bill.
They claim his view – that the NHS is outdated, unfair and should be scrapped – is shared by many Conservatives.
But David Cameron said Mr Hannan’s view was “eccentric” and accused Labour of making a meal of the row, stressing that the NHS was his top priority.
Mr Hannan has made a series of appearances on American television in recent weeks, describing the NHS as “60 year mistake” and saying that he “wouldn’t wish it on anyone”.
And the right wing lies are pretty obvious and infuriating to Britons:
Kate Spall, who appeared in a US free market group’s TV commercial opposing Mr Obama’s health bill, said her views were misrepresented.
She told BBC Radio 4’s The World at One: ” “Absolutely I was deceived yes because when I then found out the link to the website and it was a huge political machine I was horrified because it was the polar opposite of what I believe in. I absolutely believe in universal health care.”
If you click through to the BBC story you may notice a nice little graphic they have that shows, in percentage of GDP, health care expenditures by country. The US is at 16%, while the UK is at 8.4%. The graphic also includes the rather damning information “45.7 million people have no health insurance.” So we manage to spend twice as much and still leave a tremendous portion of the population vulnerable.
This is what the righties have been reduced to: they’re willing to tell infamous lies about and insult one of our staunchest allies in the world in order to block health care reform. Guess that “special relationship” only applies when Republicans are in the White House.
…and when those Republicans are searching for additional cannon fodder.
oh fuck you devoreberg. i’m sick of you
2 – I suggest you stay at stormfront dot org where you belong.
@2,
Bonus!
Heh. David Cameron, the British “conservative” wants to “conserve” the National Health System.
Wait a minute wingnuts I thought you all said that the Brit system is “socialism”.
What kind of a “conservative” is David Cameron?
Oh I get it. The only true “conservatives” are the screamers at the townhalls.
hey devoreberg, is “dr” roxanna a left wing lie?
@6 Let’s see….where’s my “bigotese” decoder ring?
(American) conservatives are for high cost, free-wheeling, out-of-control, spend-every-last-dime spending whenever it benefits them. Or, when it benefits the people/industries which fund their party/propaganda machinery.
Rural rednecks and southern racist yahoo tea party types showing up to these raucus town meetings could really USE some health insurance. However, they are too fricking stupid to figure out they are shooting themselves in the foot.
Not like it’s the first time. How many W bumper stickers do you still see on beat-up pickup trucks in Skagit County? Bush enriched the super-rich, and ignored the working class -especially when it came to health care. Yet poor, white, rural folks rooted him along the whole time.
Bush used Middle Eastern Terrorists to fool these suckers for the past 8 years; Obama set the yahoos off by the color of his skin – no evildoers necessary.
@7
i know artie. i wouldnt expect katie couric to say that the woman at sheila jacksons town meeting said she was a doctor but turned out she wasnt, she was a “community organizer”.
“If you click through to the BBC story you may notice a nice little graphic they have that shows, in percentage of GDP, health care expenditures by country. The US is at 16%, while the UK is at 8.4%. ”
It was said that Reagan and W pushed the national debt into the stratosphere to make future federal spending (on humans, that is) nearly impossible. The idea was that if we are paying 25 cents for every dollar on debt service, programs for the poor and infirm could finally “whither on the vine.”
Maybe these conservative yahoos LOVE the fact we spend double everybody else for health care. Yeah, it’s bankrupting government…which is what (American) anarchist/conservatives WANT.
Too bad clowns like manoftruth haven’t figured out US business is being hurt by out-of-control health care costs, too.
There is a difference between British Conservatives and US Conservatives: about 30 IQ points….
11 – Heh. I truly do appreciate succinct distillations of truth like that. Thanks!
@8 “Rural rednecks and southern racist yahoo tea party types showing up to these raucus town meetings could really USE some health insurance. However, they are too fricking stupid to figure out they are shooting themselves in the foot.”
Several factors involved with these folks:
(1.) In the case of the hard-core Bible belters, their religious upbringing has left them inured to authoritarianism–at least as long as the authority claims some direct connection to the Almighty.
(2.) They’ve been sold the “American dream” idea that as long as things are really, really nice for those at the top of the heap, it’ll be all the more nice for them if somehow a miracle happens and they become the Beverly Hillbillies.
(3.) Fear. Big-time. They’re scared shitless that someone might take away some of what little they have…which goes along with…
(4.) If not racism, one hell of a case of xenophobia. They just know all that’s keeping them down is that there’s some people who look different, sound different, think different or live in a different place from them are dedicated to taking away what’s “theirs”.
@6,
Yes, it’s true. Roxana Meyer tried to pass herself off as a primary care physician at a town hall meeting conducted by a Congresswoman. Meyer is a community organizer, not a doctor. In short, she was a plant.
2, 6, 9 — Anytime a wingnut starts flinging the word “truth” around — especially in reference to himself — watch out!!!
Got this email from a friend in the UK this morning:
On both the BBC and CNN-UK this morning, the top story (even over and above the humanitarian release of the convicted Lockerbie Bomber), is the comments of Daniel Hannan on Sean Hannity’s show last night. It should be noted that Hannan is a MP in the Europan Parliment, not the British Parliment, so his Tory comments are as close to irrelevent on this subject as they could be. What Hannity will not report (but I hope somebody else does over there) is that PM Brown, as well as Conservative Leader David Cameron, and virtually every other member of the British elected government, is ether asking or demanding that Hannan be disciplined, some calling for an investigation re: his “invite” to the Hannity program (did he go over on his own accord, or was there some financial incentive from the healthcare industry in the US?).
@13 Yes, those who have little are terrified of losing what little they have, and are easily manipulated into believing those who want to help them are their enemies.
Usually those who are YOUNG and in good health generally LIKE the health care available in Canada and the UK
Get older and it’t NOT such a rosie picture.
Besides, this ISN’T about Healthcare.
It’s about developing a voting block dependant on those who will promise and perhaps even deliver something for nothing.
A REAL bill would simply offer a program for those who cannot get/be insured…AFTER it addresses TORT REFORM and MANDATES.
All else is left vs right clap trap.
The Times has more on the subject.
re 18: We’ve already got healthcare for older people in this country. So your own argument is the best one for extending the care to the younger, healthier population.
I assume that you are smart enough to realize that the fears of ‘death panels’ is a completely absurd lie. Ask the Republican Congressman from Georgia who offered the amendment to assure end of life counseling– only to have it sunk by his own party.
http://www.examiner.com/x-2134.....nt-is-nuts
“Republican congressman says Palin’s death panel statement is ‘nuts’….”
…………………….
@18 Yeah, right. First priority is insulating the corporations that are buttfucking us all from any trace of responsibility.
The nice nurses will take you back to your room now.
What nobody seems to be reporting about the Canadian system is that there’s absolutely nothing prohibiting people there from purchasing supplemental coverage, similar to the privately-offered supplemental policies to Medicare which some seniors buy in the US.
And yeah…quite a few Canadians come to the US for operations–almost all of them nose jobs and fake boobs.
Some of us also remember the aftermath of 9/11, when we were all supposed to be so terrified about anthrax…but you couldn’t get vaccinated for it here in the US. You could if you dragged yourself to Canada, though.
@18
I have relatives in Canada and the UK.
All ages generally like the health care that they receive. Most see room for improvement, but would not give it up for private (which is available in the UK). They think the USA system is a joke.
Biggest problem in the UK is that the government also runs most of the hospitals (the government likes central planning; leftover from being a Kingdom) and rarely gets the forecasts for demand correct.
Republicans: Unhinged and at the end.
I think the lyrics to the Doors classic: The End can easily be applied to the political demise of Reagan Republicanism.
George W. Bush is the “killer” the song refers to in the passage below. The “father” is Reagan, and the “mother” is the philosophy of the modern day conservative movement.
For your thought enjoyment here’s the passage:
“The killer awoke before dawn, he put his boots on
He took a face from the ancient gallery
And he walked on down the hall
He went into the room where his sister lived, and…then he
Paid a visit to his brother, and then he
He walked on down the hall, and
And he came to a door…and he looked inside
Father, yes son, I want to kill you
Mother…i want to…fuck you”
Thanks, George, for totally fucking everything up for the Republican Party. The utter destruction you left in your wake ultimately killed conservatism instead of that which you intended on destroying; Liberalism.
Moral of the story: You cannot kill the truth, only lies which is why conservatism committed suicide.
Keep on keeping on, Liberals!!
Here’s a little something for that pinhead Stamn:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeWUTP6Uhko
I guess he’s ok with it because the “letter writers” are for lower taxes too.
Jon…you rock!!!!
Hey Anti-Semetic fuckhead…
I’m changing my handle to manofthruthstein!
Har Har Har Har Har Har Har!!!
I’ve heard of the panels that the sick will have to go before if ObamaCare passes. And the word is these panels may be political in nature. A panel of Democratic medical advisors, who will not only take into account the age of the person, and the cost of the procedure, but also their voting record throughout their life. I’ve heard that these panels will have a person’s voting history in front of them, and factor that into their decision. If that’s true, that scares the hell out of me. We are now going to be approved or disapproved for medical procedures depending on if we voted “correctly?”
@29 You should have voted Democrat, Troll. You’d sleep easier at night, I’m sure.
I’ve also heard these Democratic medical panels that will have the power to approve or disapprove any medical procedure, will give preferential treatment to: Undocumented Immigrants, African Americans, LGB&T’s, Democrats, Prisoners (except white collar criminals), The Disabled, and The Unemployed and Homeless.
Troll,
You are well past anyone either taking you seriously or finding your pathetic attempts at humor humorous. Just go fuck yourself, you racist pig.
@32
Racist? How am I racist? By using the n-word? Jesse Jackson uses it. He called President Obama one. Is Jesse Jackson a racist? Is Chris Rock a racist?
I just use the word in the Chris Rock sense. He said there are black people, and then there are niggers. I agree with Chris Rock.
Speaking of racism, do you know that some people consider gentrification a form of racism? Where does Goldy live? And how many black owned bars does Goldy pass by to get the a bar in the very white, and very upscale neighborhood of Montlake? And how many people of color have posting privileges on HA?
Troll, silly Troll, you’ve switched from “Some say…” to “I’ve heard…” Why the change? You still post fact free silliness.
Why is Chucky Steal Your Social Security Number Schumer afraid of town hall meetings? Maybe a verbal spanking?
Headless was this one of your “relatives”?
It’s from CNN so clueless wondermoron can’t cumplain
Why are Republicans (Grassley, Palin) spreading deliberate lies about the current debate? Why do they call provisions for counseling they supported in the past “death panels”?
In my opinion deliberately poisoning the debate is worse than avoiding screaming fools.
And how about that Rick Larsen!!
This in from CNN: “Britons including Prime Minister Gordon Brown have leapt to the defense of their creaking healthcare service after President Barack Obama’s plans for a similar system in the United States were branded “evil” by Republicans.” PuddyEmphasis.
This in from CNN: “Despite the support, the 51-year-old NHS is regularly the target of criticism at home, with opposition politicians accusing Brown’s government of mismanagement resulting in long waiting lists and a “lottery” in deciding who gets life-saving drugs and surgery.”
And this direct from the BBC, Pud:
Tory leader David Cameron, who has vowed to protect health from spending cuts if he comes to power, has been at pains to stress his commitment to the NHS and distance himself from Mr Hannan.
“The Conservative Party stands four square behind the NHS,” he told BBC News.
And more, same source:
“We are the party of the NHS, we back it, we are going to expand it, we have ring-fenced it and said that it will get more money under a Conservative government, and it is our number one mission to improve it.”
And he rebuked Mr Hannan, saying: “He does have some quite eccentric views about some things, and political parties always include some people who don’t toe the party line on one issue or another issue.”
2006 FLASHBACK: PELOSI TELLS ANTI-WAR PROTESTERS “I’M A FAN OF DISRUPTORS.”
http://www.breitbart.tv/06-fla.....isruptors/
@43
DEMOCRATS PROTEST KILLING
REPUBLICANS PROTEST CURING
Remember that next time you vote.
Aren’t Republicans in the United States supposed to be fans of Margaret Thatcher? What kind of health care system did she run in Great Britain?
Seems there are other things that the British Conservative Party is talking about changing that does not seem something some conservatives here would endorse. Rolling back the Bonus Culture in the banking industry.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_.....202738.stm
i think you have to realize the republicans spent the last 8 years saying one thing and then doing the exact opposite.
so all these senators who are saying they are opposed to HCR will eventually come around.
especially when they realize that offending the poor, disabled, sick, minorities and moderates doesn’t equate to a winning strategy.
I wonder what the basis of the rank fear you folks have for the right in this country is?
The ‘right’ in Brittain isn’t. It isn’t conservative, it isn’t free market, and in all senses of the word it isn’t right.
I also got an email from a friend in Europe today. He told me about a 6 month waiting list for an operating slot. He told me about his Italian wifes’ uncle who is on dialysis for life because of bungled medical care, with no financial or other resitition for ruining his life. He told me that the politically connected get bumped in line at the expense of everyone else. He told me about a 50-80 percent tax rate to support this inept system.
Who’s lying? I’d say anyone who truly believes the corrupt morons who seek government as a career can create a better health care system. Or make a ham sandwich without help and directions. Or tie their shoes.
You folks are going to lose. That’s why the fear and outright lies about any conservative position. Maybe some form of ‘reform’ will pass. But with corrupt Pelosi and Reed running the show it won’t be what you want. And it damn sure won’t be what real Americans want.
@29 How can you have “heard” anything with your head so far up your ass?
Re 13
This guy just can’t keep from calling anyone who has legitimate policy disputes with the idiot in the white house a rascist.
How about you try to argue the topic Art?
(4.) If not racism, one hell of a case of xenophobia. They just know all that’s keeping them down is that there’s some people who look different, sound different, think different or live in a different place from them are dedicated to taking away what’s “theirs”.
lostinaseaofblue,
“I wonder what the basis of the rank fear you folks have for the right in this country is?”
Mostly, your inability to objectively examine facts combined with your uncritical willingness to latch onto lies, provided they “confirm” your wacky ideology.
“I also got an email from a friend in Europe today. He told me about a 6 month waiting list for an operating slot….”
Anecdotes are like assholes, Asshole. Everyone has one.
Rather than clinging to your bankrupt ideology, take a look at the actual data. You’d be surprised. By many meaningful health care measures, the U.S. does not rank highly. When examined relative to costs, the U.S. downright sucks.
These things are facts, not ideology. You are lying to yourself and cause harm to America by placing ideology before facts. You know, if I thought you were smart enough to know any better, I’d call you a traitor.
lost,
an email from your friend’s wife’s uncle? sounds like this one got lost in translation.
considering the top tax rate in italy is only 45%, i’d say that
a. you don’t have any friends, let alone in europe
b. your entire post is a complete fabrication.
btw, there are no 80% tax rates in europe, sweden has the highest rate @ something like 55%
my family lived in italy for 5 years (NATO) and we were all on the local medical system as we weren’t stationed at a base. never had to wait (or pay) for anything.
and as for your real Americans, i think having served in the military and being born a u.s. citizen qualifies as real enough.
as for the hoards of morons disrupting town halls, and curbing the civil rights of citizens, i’m pretty sure the anger is as fabricated as your posting.
Sheila Jackson Lee is a stupid cunt. “Dr” Roxanna is a douchebag. Could you imagine the outcry if a republican pulled a stunt like this dynamic duo. Fuck Obama too with his lie that AARP endorsed his bullshit. Fucking dirtbags.
re 33: “I just use the word in the Chris Rock sense. He said there are black people, and then there are niggers. I agree with Chris Rock.”
That bit was written for Rock by Wanda Sykes. So, I guess you really mean it in a black, Lesbo-comic sense.
And that’s …………………OK…. Because I know that you are good enough, smart enough and, goshdarnit, people like you!
troll @ 33,
rock also said george bush was a retard. hey, now we both agree with chris rock! groovy!
Lostinaseaofblue:
Every thing anti-“the messiah” health care is an anecdote. Even when Paul Krugman had to deal with his Canadian “anecdote” ASS-kicking with his “informal” poll. – Just another anecdote per the HA Libtardos.
Of course the architect and the father of Quebec medicare, Claude Castonguay and his view 40 years later is another anecdote.
“Four decades later, as the chairman of a government committee reviewing Quebec health care this year, Castonguay concluded that the system is in “crisis.” – Just another anecdote per the HA Libtardos.
Imagine that. Saint Ronnie Raygun hobnobbing with a communist (Gorbie) and a “socialist” Maggie Thatcher.
LMAO!!! The temperature in hell is not likely to plunge anytime soon! Man, that’s a rib tickler! My Oh My!
As always the left excels at abuse when they can’t answer an argument. Asshole and such are just ways for the stupid to demonstrate their illiteracy.
Darryl shows his superb gift for writing as usual with his descent into vulgarity to answer argument. He has no original thought not fed him by democratic talking points, but he can sure yell real loud.
Don’t know who Mike is, but I respect his service to this country, if he in fact did serve. It doesn’t stop him from being entirely wrong, but he has that right. Just so you know, Mike, marginal tax rates are not the whole story there or here. Because of chiseling local, county and state taxes we double or more our tax burden in Washington. We do this directly and in paying for goods and services themselves taxed at 2 or more levels before sales tax. Try to do 2 things, Mike. First, learn to read. My friend is married to an Italian woman. That woman has an uncle. That uncles’ life was ruined by the insane medical system you and your type want to introduce here. That friend lives in Italy now, not at some point when his Dad worked for Nato. I don’t know how to simplify this for you absent the ‘I am sam’ style appropriate to your mental level. Second, Try to know what you’re talking about before you write. It would help you enormously in not looking like a complete fool.
Here’s the truth. Numbers lie. Your numbers do, so do the anti-socialist medicine crowds’. Experience doesn’t. Government has always been inept. It will always be inept. I don’t want the morons in charge of my health care.
But those same morons can of course wage wars against swarthy people who don’t care much for our foreign policy and who happen to be standing on large oil reserves. It can do a bang-up job of that.
It can torture them as well.
That makes american conservatives (as opposed to those phony Brit conservatives) FEEL good when they sit for evening of Faux News.
Actually, I personally thought the Iraq War a poor idea. I think torture is both incapable of producing worthwhile information and ethicallly reprehensible.
I’ve said this before. You didn’t choose to be a democrat because you agreed with everything any democrat ever said or did, I hope. I chose to vote republican because of 2 viable parties is was the closest to how I view the world. It is impossible that every decision made by a republican or conservative is something of which I approve. I understand the ability to agree with 60 percent of what someone says. Do you?
You seem a reasonably bright person. I assume you do, and are using the diversion to distract from the question. Does anything in your interaction with government make you want them in charge of our health care?
LostInASeaOfBlue:
Did you really call clueless wondermoron a reasonably bright person?” Cuz a reasonably bright person would have answered you. He’s just a wandering clueless wondermoron who visits Daily Kooks every day for his latest in marching orders.
It was probably the comment of ylb the other day.
Ylb replied to either Piper’s or my post about the obama having secret meetings and coming to a deal with the drug companies despite his promise that there would be transparency and all meetings would be on c-span.
The huffington link outed obama as a lair.
Ylb made some comment about not looking good and hoping it wasn’t true.
Ylb being honest is probably what gave lost the impression that ylb was reasonably bright.
Even huffington is getting on the obama isn’t really about hope & change…
huffingtonpost.com/greg-palast/obama-on-drugs-98-cheney_b_258209.html
lost,
your anecdote isn’t even accurate. no one pays 80% of their income in taxes in italy or anywhere else in europe.
the highest tax rate in italy is 43% this year for those making over 75,000 euros.
VAT is between 4% (basic goods) and 20%.
and the one that needs to learn to read (along w/ logic, reason, facts) is you, no bills in congress are pushing for a system like the italian health care system. it would be a godsend if there were. yes, italy’s system has some problems. but it’s not as seriously f*cked as ours. even the conservatives wouldn’t dare repeal the program, as they’d become as unnecesary and ineffective as the republicans.
but i don’t see how your friend’s wife’s uncle’s life was ruined by the medical system, he wouldn’t have to pay for medical services (outside of the taxes he pays into it, unless he doesn’t make enough to qualify and soaks his neighbors). was he not an italian resident? if that’s the case, then he would be obligated to pay for the services he received.
NATO benefits for health care, retirement, etc are extremely generous.
so please, tell me how i’m the one who is lying? you are the one that can’t seem to understand how ridiculous your argument is (hyperbole)
government has always been inept – this is the most absurd and asinine statement i’ve read from right wing shill.
if you hate goverment so much, why don’t you leave? you obviously don’t think it can be beneficial, so why are you still here? is the intent to destroy the american government?
Darryl: You don’t know what you’re doing. Get help. Call Dr. Berlinski for an intelligent design before wasting more of our time.
– via Wiki