The City of Renton’s plans to develop a mixed-use “retail urban village” on 68 acres formerly owned by Boeing at the South end of Lake Washington is sparking an international war of words. The project, which would include offices, a movie theater, 900 residential units and over 800,000 square feet of retail space is bitterly opposed by the Australian mall giant that owns Westfield Southcenter Mall just 7 miles away in Tukwila.
And as the Seattle P-I reports, the battle is getting nasty.
“To have some outsider try to put a jackboot on our economic throat is not going to fly,” Bill Taylor, the Renton Chamber of Commerce president and chief executive, said Thursday. “What plays in Australia does not play in Renton.”
Peter Buck, a lawyer for Westfield, said Taylor’s reference to a jackboot, a high black boot worn by soldiers in Nazi Germany, is extremely offensive. The jackboot reference is also on the chamber’s Web site.
“The chamber will live to regret it,” Buck said. “There will be a reckoning for the anti-Semitic attacks.”
Hmm. I think the “jackboot” reference comes off more anti-Nazi or even anti-Australian than anti-Semitic, but it’s rather hyperbolic and insensitive nonetheless in the way it trivializes the Nazi era. Meanwhile, Buck (not exactly a Jewish sounding name) goes way over the top with his mock indignation and threats of “regret” and “reckoning” on behalf of my people.
I don’t know much about the project in question, but personally I’ve been quite impressed with Renton’s renaissance over the past decade, and I’m not exactly a big fan of $2.8 billion multinationals coming into our communities and trying to dictate their development.
So as patriotic Americans I thought we might all join forces with our countrymen to the South and help the Renton Chamber of Commerce come up with some proper vitriol for belittling and vilifying the Australian invaders. I don’t speak much Australian myself, so I was hoping my incredibly diverse, educated, talented and foul-mouthed readership could offer some suggestions.
The comment thread is open. I’ll forward the best anti-Australian insults to the Renton Chamber for use in future media availabilities.
Figures. A spammer trying to make a few quick bucks from people clicking through. Regardless of the debates over whether to “moderate” discussions on this site, I hope Goldie can delete these types of comments.
Not to spammers – host your own site, pay for “pay-per-click” advertising, or put in the effort to post real content that will draw readers. Don’t try to pollute the efforts of others.
Oddly enough, that post @ 1 is more useful than most the shit in these threads.
Is another commercial development needed there? I’d like to know the best use of the property? I’m sure tired of shopping malls replacing viable downtown areas.
http://www.crooksandliars.com/.....x-evasion/
Another shining example of the righ wing taliban party. These are the folks who want to tell US how to live.
John Stewaer puts it to Novak and gang but good!
http://movies.crooksandliars.c.....-Plame.wmv
With all due admiration for the gullible manner in which they allowed themselves to be sacrificed to the Turk machine guns at Gallipoli by incompetent military leaders, the Aussies should stick to fucking up their own country, which they’ve made an outstanding job of.* **And keep their mitts off ours.
* If you don’t like my ending a sentence with a preposition, go fuck yourself, and fuck the armadillo you rode in on.*
** If you don’t like my starting a sentence with a conjunction, fuck a queer armadillo! (If you’re fucking yourself, that proves you’re queer, because fucking yourself obviously is same-sex intercourse.)
I didn’t see #1. Apparently Goldy already deleted it. Good for him! If these spammers want to advertise on this site, they should pay Goldy for the space. Running the server isn’t free to him, it costs at least $10 a month, which is serious beer money for us liberals!
These on-line spammers must be Republicans, because they’re
F R E E L O A D E R S
Roger Rabbit @ 7
“* If you don’t like my ending a sentence with a preposition, go fuck yourself, and fuck the armadillo you rode in on.*”
That was a nasty trick.
There are at least a dozen wingnuts who have been recursively reading that sentence for 15 minutes. (Notice how quiet the trolls have been since you posted that?)
The proposed development in Renton is a polar opposite of replacing a viable downtown with a shopping mall. If anything, this might actually help create a new downtown for the city of Renton
The property is essentially an old parking lot north of downtown Renton and south of Lake Washington. The nearby residential neighborhoods are high-crime, low-desirability areas. This would be a great example of effective development.
It’s also worth noting that the city’s insistence on a grocery store and the inclusion of 900 residential units constitutes more than a half-hearted attempt at viable suburban sustainability. That’s something you don’t see every day around here.
” If you don’t like my ending a sentence with a preposition, go fuck yourself, and fuck the armadillo you rode in on.”
Shame on you. A preposition is not a good thing to end a sentence with.
David Goldstein gets into an extreme tizzy over the slightest perceived insult to his claimed Jewish identity.
But when vile anti-Semitic slurs are made against REAL JEWS (i.e. Jews with whom Goldstein has disagreements), Goldstein thinks it is really funny and justifiable.
The Westfield Group is a major business started by two Jewish businessmen from Australia, who are still presumably its largest shareholders: Frank Lowy and John Saunders
Here are some references from Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Westfield_Group
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Lowy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Oceanian_Jews
John Saunders the Australian businessman should not be confused with John Saunders the Canadian-American sports journalist. The link to “John Saunders” in the Wikipedia article “List of Oceanian Jews” is to the wrong John Saunders.
David Goldstein should ask his good friend Cindy Sheehan for some vile anti-Semitic insults that he can use against Frank Lowy, John Saunders and all the other Australian Jews in the Westfield Group.
I think there is another dynamic operating here that contributes to the vicious nature of this conflict. While South Center is strategically place at a confluence of Super Hiways, it is not> easily accessable to a large group of local shoppers. They’re not ready to survive only on a base from Tukwila and the rabbit-warrens (sorry Roger) along the Burien Highline Ridge.
Gas is ‘way up, and shopping by running up and down the I-5 corridor is not so attractive. For people in Coal Creek, the Renton Hilands, and living along the Kent Ridge, getting to and from Tukwila most times of the day are a beast. Even the layout of the surface streets is poor, and clogged for hours a day.
The proposed shopping village in Renton could kill South Center, a shopping mall concept designed for another era.
Richard Pope, Republican shill, failed lawyer and failed politician never fails to litter these threads with personal attacks on Goldy.
Nothing substantive in his head, only attack ads for the talibangelists.
What difference does it make whether the Westfield Group has hired a Jewish lawyer or not? What difference does it make whether Peter Buck is Jewish or not?
The important issue here is that the client here is Jewish and has been subjected to a vile anti-Semitic slur.
@11 In a way, Roger ended with a “proposition”.
Here is the law firm bio for Peter Buck:
http://www.buckgordon.com/FSL5.....m_Buck.asp
The last item, under “Volunteer Activities”, is particularly note-worthy:
“Chairman of the Board, Powerful Choices – a nonprofit organization serving women’s empowerment and self-defense needs and supporting witness protection for Bosnian rape camp survivors, 1993-96”
For the benefit of mentally deficient leftists out there, the Serbians in Bosnia committed a horrific campaign of genocide against the Muslims in that country, which claimed hundreds of thousands of lives. Had this not been stopped by U.S. and NATO intervention (one of the better actions of the Clinton administration), this could have risen close to the levels of the Nazis against the Jews. Still, it was a horrible crime against humanity.
Regardless of whether Mr. Buck is Jewish or not, he certainly has both the professional and moral character to represent a Jewish-affiliated client who is being subjected to vile anti-Semitic slurs.
Mr. Poop, what seems to be important here, is the fact that a large business owner, who has in the past profitted mightily is facing extinction through changing business conditions, and is attempting to act in an extremely regressive fashion by opposing development by a sovereign local government entity.
To this date, most Mall Development in the area has relied on an extremely profligate energy model. South Center is a poster child for this model. Bellevue Square is another. These business interests are deeply intertwined with the BIAW. Not the most progressive group around. Their solutions tend toward more freeway cement.
Intentional shopping villages with integrated living spaces is a progressive, forward thinking business model. I can understand that this might be foreign to your thinking.
If David Goldstein is so concerned about whether or not a particular lawyer is Jewish, here is a list of all the lawyers working at Buck & Gordon LLP:
Aliza C. Allen
Peter L. Buck
Brent Carson
Jay P. Derr
Ellen Gish
Duncan Greene
Joel M. Gordon
Adam Gravley
Seth Gustafson
Cristina Jorgenson
Tadas Kisielius
Amy L. Kosterlitz
Molly Lawrence
Denice Marchman
Richard A. Moore
Keith E. Moxon
Kitteridge Oldham
Samuel W. (Billy) Plauché
Susan S. Shyne
Jeff S. Weber
http://www.buckgordon.com/FSL5.....0team9.asp
Perhaps Goldstein can give us his opinion as to which lawyers among these, if any, are Jewish. And Goldstein can sponsor a contest for appropriate vile anti-Semitic slurs against these lawyers, if applicable.
As a further aside, in response to the red herring of anti-semitism. . .I would refer you to photographs of a recent military display in Pyongyang, where jackboots were in prominent array. Reference to almost any footage of coverage of MayDay displays in China and Russia will reveal both jackboots and choreographed goose-stepping as part of the military panopoly. this is merely a Red Herring Issue to mask a purely commercial conflict.
Well, if someone talked about the Chinese “jackboot” in Tibet or the Russian “jackboot” in Chechnya, I would view these uses of “jackboot” as references to Chinese or Russian militarism.
However, the commercial and land-use dispute at issue here has nothing to do with military action, and nothing to do with China or Russia. Nor is the “jackboot” considered to be a national icon of Australia in any way.
Instead, it deals with a Jewish-founded and affiliated business, the Westfield Group. The “jackboot” in question can only be a vile anti-Semitic slur, given its close identification with the German Nazis.
Goldy,
I’m pretty new to the comment threads, but not to the site. A few days ago you posted about possibly transitioning to a more interactive format as part of an effort to get more substantive comments.
I don’t know much of anything about web design, but I here’s hoping…
Richard, that is almost too lame for rebuttal. The reference to jackboots is quite clearly referring to thuggish behavior and to assert that only Jews were a target of such behavior is foolish and only self-serving to the point of this arguement. I doubt any of your posturings should be taken seriously.
It’s all a red herring.
The Renton comment was a reference to thuggish behavior. Clearly, if they had intended to be anti-semetic, they would have used other terms. I doubt they had the slightest idea of the racial componant of the owners of the firm, or of the law firm representing them.
So we have one suburb attempting to subsidize, in part, the re-development of a former factory/industrial district which will actually be developed by a private developer. The extent to which this is a good and fair use of the taxpayer money of the citizens of Renton is a fair subject for discussion. Because of the potential environmental contamination on the site due to long-term industrial use lasting over half a century, some public participation would probably be necessary in any re-development scheme. Otherwise the property might remain as a blighted, unused eyesore.
But now you have a commercial enterprise in a neighboring suburb, attempting to finance a challenge to the enterprise for the sole purpose of restricting competition in the area. I don’t know this “citizens” group, but if a lawsuit is filed, I would hope there is extensive pre-trial discovery to determine if this is a sham front, a “straw man” set up by the Westfield group.
But you have to wonder about the claims that the residential/retail center would cause environmental/traffic problems which could not be overcome. The property used to be used by Boeing! Whatever traffic or environmental problems arise, they surely cannot be greater than that created by a 2:30 P.M. shift change which was previously experienced on the same property! And a residential/retail space is not going to create any greater environmental pollution than what existed under the previous industrial uses.
In fact, the environmental remediation which will be required as part of any development project will probably do more to good than just leaving the property empty.
I said “it’s a red herring” because the group is trying to appear to be the victim, and to take attention away from their attempts to restrict competition in the area.
Just out of curiosity, but wouldn’t such a motivation make their actions a consipiracy in “restraint of trade”, prohibited under state and federal antitrust laws?
I don’t mind seeing merchants duking it out in the marketplace, with Darwinian results, but I don’t like it much when one tries to keep the other one from ever opening its storefront, either through political connections, financial influence, or inordinate legal or regulatory challenges.
The City of Renton has land use and environmental laws, as does the State of Washington. These laws have both substantive and procedural components.
Shouldn’t these land use and environment laws be followed? Even if the project is 100% appropriate in substance (i.e. assuming it meets land use codes and doesn’t harm the environment), shouldn’t the proper procedures and timelines still be adhered to?
At the present time, the group concerned about the Renton development has merely made filings with the City of Renton as part of the procedural review process at the city level. There is no sort of litigation pending in any court at the present time.
To use a “jackboot” reference in that context against anyone is inappropriate and misplaced. And when used against a Jewish-founded and affiliated company, it is vile and offensive.
Yet another couple of components here are Richard Pope’s long standing animosity toward Goldy, and propensity to smell the large amount of money to be spent on this conflict. It is rather like chum in the water around sharks. . . .Mooching around for a little sub-contracted lawyering, are we Richard? Hmm?
RHP9033 @ 25
An “inordinate regulatory challenge” might be something like one of my neighbors challenging the City of Bellevue issuing a permit for a minor change to my property, such as widening my driveway.
However, in this instance we have “a proposed 68-acre project of more than 800,000 square feet of retail, 900 residential units and a movie theater. The city is funding more than $20 million in infrastructure costs for the project, which could exceed $300 million of private investment.”, according to the Seattle P-I article linked by David Goldstein.
I would hardly consider any sort of filing with the City of Renton at the city level as part of the approval and review process for this massive project to be an “inordinate regulatory challenge”.
I am glad to see that the first “spam” comment was deleted. Unfortunatly, that puts me at the new # 1, which is bound to be confusing for some. Oh, well, can’t have everything.
You are too disengenuous Richard. Scraping for work, and slagging Goldy at the same time. Quite the coup for you.
Actually, the irresponsible words of the Renton Mayor are likely to keep this project tied up in the court system for many years to come. I quote from the Seattle P-I article:
“The case goes before a Renton hearing examiner in September, said Alex Pietsch, the city’s economic development administrator. That decision then could be appealed to the City Council and either side could take the case to court.
But the city and the developer have no intention of slowing down.
“Renton is not going to be bullied by a multibillion-dollar mega-corporation outside this country,” Keolker said. “Renton residents have shopped at Southcenter Mall for years. It’s time for us to have shopping of our own. …
“It is unconscionable for a corporation to come in and do this to a neighboring community. I am advising my folks not to shop at Southcenter and don’t shop at Westfield properties.”
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/.....ght14.html
When the matter reaches the Renton City Council, that body has to act in a quasi-judicial capacity, as opposed to a legislative or political capacity. This means it has to avoid ex-parte contacts with interested parties, act in a neutral and impartial manner, and generally adhere to a doctrine called “appearance of fairness” — meaning not only being fair, but also having the appearance of being fair.
The Renton Mayor is already making highly charged and prejudicial comments about this matter. This official prejudice, combined with the unofficial prejudice (and vile anti-Semitic comments) by the Renton Chamber of Commerce will likely result in this project being tied up in the court system for many years.
Even if the project complies with all land-use and environmental laws and doesn’t require any variances whatsoever, the King County Superior Court or state appellate courts could reverse a Renton City Council decision approving this project simply based on the “appearance of fairness” doctrine.
Somehow I doubt that the proposed “The Landing” project is “kosher” under relevant land-use, environmental and other applicable laws.
If this proposal was 100% legitimate, then the Renton Mayor and Renton Chamber of Commerce should have absolutely nothing to fear about an appropriate legal review of the project being conducted by the Renton Hearing Examiner and Renton City Council.
The Renton Mayor and Renton Chamber of Commerce doth protesteth too much.
To quote Richard Pope:”Somehow I doubt that the proposed “The Landing” project is “kosher” under relevant land-use, environmental and other applicable laws.”
I wonder if the good RebbiRichard is available to answer other Questions of Conscience? With the press of his political aspirations and moonlighting as a consultant to the Anti-Defamation League. He seems to be volunteering to settle those thorny questions for us as to what is tref or pareve.
“Shouldn’t these land use and environment laws be followed? Even if the project is 100% appropriate in substance (i.e. assuming it meets land use codes and doesn’t harm the environment), shouldn’t the proper procedures and timelines still be adhered to?”
Absolutely.
What I’m waiting for is whether it’s going to be a cash war between the Southcenter owners and the Renton developers, to see who runs out of money with respect to funding challenges, appeals, etc.
And I still think the “jackboot” isn’t necessarily a racial comment, unless it is directed at a German. I can see the other side, I just don’t agree with it.
Richard Pope,
Ummm…time to get your meds adjusted? I mean, suddenly, out of the blue, you go off on one of your bat-shit crazy tangents.
Come on, Pope, snap the fuck out of it.
Goldy: “I think the “jackboot” reference comes off more anti-Nazi or even anti-Australian than anti-Semitic, but it’s rather hyperbolic and insensitive nonetheless in the way it trivializes the Nazi era.”
This “controversy” is yet another example of Godwin’s Law.
“Godwin observed that people had increasingly begun to compare anyone and anything they mildly disliked with Hitler and/or Fascism.”
This, of course, doesn’t apply to anyone around here, right?
Jesse P @ 10: Thanks for your considered response. As I thought it about it, I agree that we should be encouraging these smaller urban villages which are far more energy efficient and people as well as small business friendly.
Did anyone notice that Goldy is asking for vitriol to take back to the Aussies? Where are the trolls when you need ’em?
Why don’t you guys look up jackboot before getting your collective knickers in a twist.
Since when does a guy named Pope become an expert on Jews and anti-semitism?
As a Rentonian,I don’t have high hopes for The Landing development; I expect upscale stores that I wouldn’t shop at and stores like Crate and Barrel and Stone Cold Creamery…That said, if Southcenter wants to see the Landing fail, they could offer better stores and lower prices.
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