Is it even necessary to point out the irony of Ted Van Dyk remarking on other people having outlived the politics of their youth?
Kennedy’s death, Dodd’s withdrawal, and Sen. Robert Byrd’s perilous health have drawn attention to the fact that the Senate that existed when they arrived has dramatically changed.
An astute observation which of course demands immediate, anecdotal references to Hubert Humphrey, Everett Dirksen, Lyndon Johnson and Barry Goldwater, as if to illustrate his point by example.
Um… could Van Dyk be any less self-aware?
Those leaders all knew that no major policy change would be lasting if passed on a one-party basis. This stands in contrast to the path taken over the past year by Obama and Democratic congressional leaders with stimulus, cap-and-trade, and health-care legislation. All were drafted and passed on a Democrats-only basis.
So, Van Dyk’s point is, what? That the Senate that existed at the time Humphrey reached across the aisle to Dirkson has “dramatically changed,” but that Obama and the Democratic leadership should behave as if it hasn’t?
What a load of crap. The Dems did reach across the aisle to “moderate” Republican Senators Susan Collins and Olympia Snow, and even to more conservative Republicans like Sen. Chuck Grassley and others, but the Republican caucus, determined to see President Obama fail, refused to concede an inch. Yeah sure, I suppose we could have gotten Republican support for something called “health care reform,” that severely limited the ability of patients to sue for malpractice, while eliminating the ability of states to regulate insurance within their own borders, all the while continuing to allow insurance companies to deny you coverage for preexisting conditions, and cancel your coverage when you get sick. But what would have been the point of that? Short of total capitulation, the Republicans were intent on denying Obama a legislative victory.
That is the new Senate, that exists today, which is indeed very different from the Senate of Van Dyk’s youth, and as much as he may bemoan the decline of bipartisanship, that’s the reality that President Obama et al have to deal with. Times change, something even Ted Kennedy didn’t fully realize until it was too late, for despite his reputation as a liberal lion, he was also one of the Senate’s consummate practitioners of the sort of bipartisan collaboration that Van Dyk now mourns. Stuck in the mindset of the Senate of his youth, Kennedy ended up playing the role of Roosevelt at Yalta when it came to education reform, becoming little more than a Republican tool in garnering bipartisan support for No Child Left Behind, an act that promised to invest in and improve public education, but which ended up punishing those schools that needed the most help, while turning our classrooms into the public school equivalent of a Stanley Kaplan prep course.
I won’t argue with Van Dyk as to whether America might be better served by the more collegial Senate atmosphere of the 1960’s, though it was no doubt easier to reach across the aisle when both sides were populated almost entirely by white, Christian men. My dispute with Van Dyk is over his repeated accusations that the current partisan rancor is entirely the fault of the Democrats — a bizarre assertion after a decade during which Republicans have taken to vilifying their opponents as morons, traitors or worse — and his apparent conclusion that the necessary prescription to our nation’s political woes is unilateral Democratic disarmament.
Not only would the Republican minority laugh at us as we ceded to them the national agenda, voters would laugh at us too. Indeed, I’d argue that the Democrats’ greatest political weakness is the popular perception that Democrats are in fact weak. That’s not a trait that voters tend to seek in their national leaders… hence the two terms of that idiot cowboy, Bush.
But that is exactly the posture that Van Dyk, calling upon his personal experience with a Senate that no longer exists, so vociferously advocates.
” voters would laugh at us too. Indeed, I’d argue that the Democrats’ greatest political weakness is the popular perception that Democrats are in fact weak”
Seems to me “that idiot cowboy” got his legislation passed with democrat assistance. That Obama can’t should be a pretty glaring commentary on the man.
And voters will laugh at you. That’s precisely what’s going on in Massachusetts. Get used to it.
The first cap-and-trade program in the US was passed by the first President Bush (R).
VAn Dyk says, “Those leaders all knew that no major policy change would be lasting if passed on a one-party basis.”
Um, what is he talking about?
How many Republicans voted for the creation of social security, Medicare and the minimum wage?
He’s so out of touch with reality.
I find it interesting that when Republicans stand on the principles they told the voters they stood for they’re trying to make Obama fail. They are, and have said so, but only because his policies are bad for the country and against every principle that made this place great.
No matter what happens in tomorrow’s special election in Massachusetts, Democrats can pass a health reform bill. Last night, posting in a previous thread, I outlined three different ways. If Brown wins and Democrats thrown in the towel on the health bill, it will be a shameless and indefensible surrender to minority rule. That is intolerable in a democracy whose guiding principle is that decisions are made by majority vote.
I’ve been a Democratic activist all my adult life, but if our officeholders roll over and play dead for the screaming minority of the radical right, I won’t lift a paw to help any of them in 2010 or beyond. Why should any of us? Who has a right to ask more of soldiers who gave their all to generals who threw it away? No one has such a right.
@1 “Seems to me “that idiot cowboy” got his legislation passed with democrat assistance. That Obama can’t should be a pretty glaring commentary on the man.”
No, you’ve got it backwards. It’s a glaring commentary on the Democrats who helped Bush.
You know, I think liberals should behave more like Republicans. That’s a principle I’ve personally adopted in these comment threads, and at the natioal level, I think our Democratic electeds should block opposition appointees, vote en bloc against Republican legislation, and shut down the government when Republicans are in charge of it. They play by Baseball Rules, and so should we. When their pitcher hits our batter, our pitcher should hit their batter. They play by Mafia Rules, and so should we. When they whack one of our guys, we should take out one of theirs. Hey, conservatives, we can still be friends if you don’t take it personally — remember, it’s just business.
@4 If the implication of your comment is that Republican values and policies made America great, you’re a fucking joke.
You are anyway, in any case.
Too many DINOS. Their record since 2006 speaks for its self.
The solution is simple.
Primary them!
The DINOS would then just join the Republicans they collaborate with and go the way of the dinosaurs.
Re 6
This is in a nutshell the problem with liberal thought. You simply can’t conceive of a world where your choices or behaviors have consequences.
Obama is the president (God help us!) and has a majority in both houses of Congress. Does he appoint judges to sway the courts to his ideological bent, and presumably that of the voters who elected him? No. Does he hold to the promises he made to the voters who elected him? Does health care have a mandate to purchase? Is unemployment over 8%? Yes.
Obama is incapable of doing his job. He is smart, articulate and personable. His charisma is undeniable. But you have to know something about what you’re doing to do it well. You have to know how to be an executive to play the Congress and get your legislation passed. He can’t. But you blame the Republicans, whom you can’t control, instead of asking for your representatives to do their job.
Don’t get me wrong. I’m glad Obama is incapable of getting his agenda through. It would destroy this country. I’m just saying if you don’t like what your man is doing blame your man.
Re 8
Really? Are you really this dense?
Congresspeople are elected to represent thier constituency, not their party. If some of them from more moderate districts do this, they are DINOs. Do you really think that party is more important than ethical representation of the people who elected you?
lost @1,
Actually, Obama has been quite successful in getting legislation passed. Much more so than Bush was before the nation rallied around him after 9/11.
Re 5
Yes, they can. They can pass a bill that breaks the only promise Obama made regarding health care during his election. They can gift insurance companies with 40 million new customers required to purchase their product or go to jail. They can gift pharma with gauranteed price increases for the next 5 years. They can tax non-union health insurance at one rate and the exact same union plan can be exempt.
Sure they can pass this POS legislation, but why would any sane man want them to?
With all due respect-
The qualifier was ‘with Democrat assistance.’ In Obamas’ case, were he representing all of the country and not just the liberal left, this would read, ‘with Republican assistance.’
@9 Um, you can’t comprehend what I write, can you? Don’t answer this; you’ll only embarrass yourself further.
@10 “Congresspeople are elected to represent thier constituency, not their party.”
There is not one Republican office holder in this country who understands or comports with this principle, so why should ours? In the context of GOP scorched-earth politics, that’s weakness and surrender. And I’m tired of our guys giving up. I want them to kick the GOP’s ass. Thanks to the Republicans’ party-first approach to everything, we live in times when Democrats have to be partisans in order to be patriots.
If we had a majority rule democracy (50% + 1) health care would be passed by now, and we would have had a better stimulus package as well. Instead, we have a system in which Brown of Mass can claim to be the 41st vote against health care reform, and sink it, if he wins the special election, and he may be right. It is really hard for democrats to be bipartisan when the republicans have made it their stated goal to act it absolute solidarity against anything the president proposes, and we can’t even get one republican on board major social legislation. The senate, and our democracy, is broken.
btw, Ted Van Dyke is so out of touch with the political realities of today, it is surprising that a ‘new media’ outlet like Crosscut bothers to publish him.
Sometimes a person can tell that you used to deal in words for a living, sometimes not.
How hard is this? You could blame your inept president for his failure to get his agenda accross. Or you could blame the opposition for doing what they would predictably do, try to block him. Think of it like your baseball analogy. I don’t blame the A’s for pitching well to the M’s. I blame the M’s for not hitting the ball.
@16 I think Harry Reid should issue cots and assign sleeping spaces in the cloakroom to GOP senators, and force them to actually filibuster, if that’s what they want to do. And then he should sound “Assembly” on the bugle to summon the Democratic senators to the floor, and slug it out with the GOPers until they crack. Make the bastards fight, and let’s see who’s tougher! This crap of rolling over and playing possum when he doesn’t have 60 votes has got to end. Filibusters can be broken. Make the minority caucus stay on the floor until they faint or die.
I give up. I think it’s a cultural thing. Democrats assume Republicans control the Congress (apparently) and blame them for Democrat failures.
Addionally you folks try to deal with reality by ignoring it. I have yet to have a single HA leftist answer my repeated critique of the Senate health care legislation as the exact corporate welfare you claim to oppose. No, that would admit that your side has failed you, and you can’t do that. Much better to ignore the critique.
I’m going to my cabin to forget that such illogical people exist. Have a nice day.
@19 “I give up. I think it’s a cultural thing. Democrats assume Republicans control the Congress (apparently) and blame them for Democrat failures.”
Let’s get something straight. The clusterfuck that America turned into — its bitter partisanship, economic collapse, foreign embarrassments, and all the rest — are the work product of 30 years of incompetent and corrupt Republican rule. Anyone who says otherwise is a goddamned liar.
@17 “How hard is this? You could blame your inept president for his failure to get his agenda accross. Or you could blame the opposition for doing what they would predictably do, try to block him. Think of it like your baseball analogy. I don’t blame the A’s for pitching well to the M’s. I blame the M’s for not hitting the ball.”
The only intelligent thing you’ve ever said on this blog.
Two last comments and I’ll leave you folks to enjoy yourselves.
Re 20
And the answer to the critque of the health care bill you want passed so badly would be…?
Re 13
I ommited to mention that Bush got legislation passed post 911 on national emergency and with bipartisan support. He used the bogeman of national security to pass terrible legislation robbing us of basic civil rights, but he did it with Democrat help.
Obama took a national emergency and tried to use it to pass equally anti American legislation. He had the same tailwind of popular pressure to do something, anything to make it better. Could he get bipartisan support, or even the legislation passed. No.
Go away already LISB..
I agree with Rabbit. Dems have got to get a lot more Machiavellian to survive against the Republicans, who have gone way past Machiavelli and now more resemble Stalin while he was plotting to gain power. Principled collaboration doesn’t win against absolutist amorality.
I can understand Van Dyk yearning for past years and his past life. I do too. I just don’t expect people to yearn with me in the public press. Robert Byrd is 93 years old, for gods sake and he has to be wheel-barrowed into the Senate; you’re damn right he’s in perilous health. If Van Dyk wants to continue concentrating on the Byrd generation, he’s going to get very lonely very soon. Make some younger friends in their 60s, Ted.
More than that, actually.
They issued overt threats to any members of the caucus (like Collins, Snow, and Grassley) who dared to respond positively to any approach from the Dems or the White House. They went onto Sunday talks and pilloried them for their treason. And they continue to insist that they will follow through with their threats by withholding money and support in the coming years.
@22 “And the answer to the critque of the health care bill you want passed so badly would be…?”
It’s the best we can get without Republican cooperation and better than the nothing we got from 28 years of Republican rule. The GOP ignored the crisis in health care. Obama and the congressional Democrats are thrashing out what is going to be less than universal coverage and rather mild regulation of the health insurance industry, but I expect this bill to incrementally improve the state of health care for American citizens, and at least it provides a foundation to build future improvements on.
@22 “Obama took a national emergency and tried to use it to pass equally anti American legislation.”
Bullshit. Obama and the Democrats, whether mistaken or not, are acting in good faith for what they perceive as the well-being of the American people. There’s not a scintilla of doubt in my mind that as long as rightwing turds like you spew rhetoric like this our approach should be to kick your asses to the curb. When you fuckers decide to be Americans and negotiate in good faith, we’re ready to deal. Until then, fuck you.
New poll: Brown up 9
“I actually think the bottom is falling out,” said InsiderAdvantage CEO Matt Towery, referring to Coakley’s fall in the polls over the last ten days. “I think that this candidate is in freefall. Clearly this race is imploding for her.”
http://www.politico.com/news/s.....z0d0yRzXkR
@22
What anti-American legislation would that be?
Nixon had a universal healthcare plan in his ’74 SOTU address.
“I ommited to mention that Bush got legislation passed post 911 on national emergency and with bipartisan support. He used the bogeman of national security to pass terrible legislation robbing us of basic civil rights, but he did it with Democrat help.”
I, for one, largely agree. That the Obama administration continues the Bush policies wrt FISA, “enemy combatants”, buying in to the “war on terror” meme, and maintaining our geopolotical imperial project generally is hardly suprising, and deeply regrettable. Yet you call him a “leftist”.
You have no clue what a “leftist” is. Try reading some Alexander Cockburn (psst., he thinks global warming is a hoax, too-yes, we have lefty coo-coos). Or partake of some Chomskey. But the garden variety “leftists” you find on this blog are pretty tame by any stretch of the imagination, and Obama and the DLC are pretty much on Wall Street’s payroll (their biggest campaign contributor, but when you have all the money, that’s hardly suprising).
Could he get bipartisan support, or even the legislation passed. No.
Well, just delusionally wrong. Obama did get the stimulus package passed. And it was not enough (cf Krugman on this). Yet he did not get even one GOP vote for what is widely believed to be a necessary fiscal boost to the economy. Conclusion: The GOP has made the political decision to “just say no” to everything proposed by the administration. Tell me how one builds bi-partisanship with that kind of obstructionism? This kind of political thuggery?
Do you negotiate with childish bullies, con artists, belligerent drunks, burgalars, psychopaths and smash and grab thieves?
Since you have such an over-developed sense of your own self worth, I suspect the answer is rather obvious.
Loster: “I have yet to have a single HA leftist answer my repeated critique of the Senate health care legislation as the exact corporate welfare you claim to oppose.”
You don’t get around much in “left-wing” circles, obviously. The criminally callow corporate give-aways in the Senate version of health care legislation are a hot and quite divisive, topic.
The wingnuts have their internal divisions also (cf. immigration, corporatism, etc.), but they generally rise as one against “the other” because they all share an essentially paranoid view of how the world works.
“Leftists” fall on each other at the drop of a hat, just look what happened to SDS for example, or try actually engaging a LaRouchie in conversation.
But on the whole, the left gets it, and the right just continues to do what it has always reflexively done, provide political cover for the wealthy, and the powerful.
R I P “teddy’s” seat.
re 1: When your agenda is NO, it’s a little easier to be understood.
I seriously doubt if you can point to one piece of legislation in the Bush era that helped anybody — except the uber rich.
Bush’s biggest failure is his crowning achievment — his effort to privatize social security.
He got a dose of what he gave: NO….
To satisfy all of the Danes out there, the Senator’s name is spelled DirksEn.
I think of Everett Dirksen, Barry Goldwater, and Richard Russell as conservative Republicans who stuck to their principles but who would never do anything to harm the Republic.
31 – You can’t be implying that LaRouchies are on the left.
It’s a bizarre, paranoid, anglo-phobic, anti-semitic right wing cult.
For the stimulus? Nothing in the House but he did get Specter (before he switched parties), Snowe and Collins in the Senate.
31 – You can’t be implying that LaRouchies are on the left.
It’s a bizarre, paranoid, anglo-phobic, anti-semitic right wing cult.
you are correct. the proof is that the government infiltrated it. they’d never infiltate a leftist group.
You ignorance of history is as usual appalling.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO
And thanks for acknowledging that the LaRouchies are anti-semitic.
It takes one to know one.
It doesn’t matter what party is in charge…
Our system is designed to force compromise on everything our Government does. It is not about “We are in charge so shut up and watch”. We fought to free ourselves from that very type of governance and is the very foundation of our country.
To hear leaders in Congress talk about changing the rules to make it easier to pass their agenda items makes me violently ill. This is not what our country is about.
Obama ran on a platform of a new era of openness and co-operation and has done exactly the opposite of what he pledged. This is why his approval ratings have fallen faster and further than any other President. The approval rating of Congress makes even the lowest forms of life look good. Even if you want some of the things that this administration is doing people do not want things done by force, by dirty dealing, by corrupt methods, but by a process where everyone finds a middle ground, something they can all live with, even if it isn’t exactly what you want.
If your idea is so bad that you can’t find just ONE person from the other side to agree with you then you shouldn’t be doing it. If you have a super majority and you can’t get enough of your own party on board than you REALLY SHOULDN’T be doing it. And if you have to bribe, blackmail, and threaten members of your own party to get that support then you shouldn’t be in an elected position at all.
What is going on in Washington D.C. is shameful and that is why there is going to be a serious house cleaning this November. The people are mad as hell and they are not going to take it anymore.
@24 Pop Rabbit, who’s almost 100 years old, is lonely because all his friends and cronies are dead. He outlived them all, every one. He says being the last rabbit left standing is a curse, because he has no one to talk to.
@37 “they’d never infiltate a leftist group”
Hmmm, except all the antiwar groups of the 60s. It’s hard to tell who was the bigger paranoid freak, Nixon or J. Edgar.
@40 What a load of utter, obscene, stinking horseshit. You can’t have bipartisan government when an entire political party consists of toddlers who throw temper tantrums and pick up their marbles if they can’t have everything their way.
@38
You ignorance of history is as usual appalling.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO
LOL LOL
you think they still infiltrate women’s rights groups?? your a couple of decades late my commie friend.
Asswipe @ 44
Here’s something a little more updated my self-loathing “friend”:
http://www.rawstory.com/news/2....._0922.html
The government spying on VEGANS. Do vegans sound right wing to you moron?
Massachusetts has turned into a real horserace, and to be fair to the Republicans, if Brown wins it shouldn’t take any longer to seat him than it took to seat Sen. Franken.
@44: So, the government only infiltrates right wing groups (har har)? Do tell. Well, that’s fine with me.
@45
WTF??? Vegans??? Yeah, those vegans, they’re a scary bunch.
OMG!!! Protesters are outside the ham store!!!!
@35: I’m only saying they claim to be “the true heirs to FDR”. It’s truly sickening shit, and those kids come across as cult-like pod people.
Actually kinda tragic.
If they’d go to GOP meetings and sing their songs, I wouldn’t be so upset with them.
@46: We couldn’t do a Coleman on them. That would be partisan (snark), and T_V_D would get upset.
@45
mr asswipe to you.
@40
There is nothing in the Constitution about the filibuster. A simple majority is all that is required to pass legislation.
Also if you like sausage or have respect for the law never watch either being made. Bribes, blackmail, dirty dealing, and corrupt methods is a prety good description of how most legislative bodies work.
@51: Yes. You are right. We Communists (that’s capital ‘C’ douchebag)have taken over the entire store. We have a 5 year plan that is a guaranteed winner. Inevitable. Unstoppable. Preordained. Like Rosemary’s baby. There’s nothing you can do about it.
So sure. We stopped infiltrating the Communist Party USA decades ago, when the FBI informers constituted 75% of their members. They have served their purpose, and we have discarded them in the dustbin of history.
Your pathetic little militia groups, heh. We ignore them. After all, you got that dumb rocker going around bragging about his bambi kills, and that actor guy….you know, the really bad kung fu white guy…yeah, Norris. I may as well tell you, he’s really one of ours. Great double agent.
Yup. It’s all going according to plan. You’ll be a slave before you know it. And then comes the really big surprise. We’re not THE JEWS. Nope. It was a great disguise for a while. Fooled smarty pants wise guys like you at any rate. We’re really Mormons–you know, the aliens who gave Joe Smith (that simpleton) those “golden tablets”.
You heard about our big fortified cave in Utah, right? Drop by and say hello some time. Drinks are on the house, sucker.
@51: Sorry. The opening should read: “Yes. You are right, Mr. Asswipe.” The formalities should be adhered to.
“For the stimulus? Nothing in the House but he did get Specter (before he switched parties), Snowe and Collins in the Senate.”
Saints be preserved! Then we did have bipartisanship. So what’s t_v_d so upset about? Forget to take his Ambien?
re 46: Excellent point.
@46
Massachusetts has turned into a real horserace, and to be fair to the Republicans, if Brown wins it shouldn’t take any longer to seat him than it took to seat Sen. Franken.
i’m not sure if you mean in total, or once he was actually awardede the seat.
My political party, the (insert party here) loves America and is only trying to make us great again. ALL of our problems, every single one, is the fault of (other party). Everyone knows that, it’s obvious and if you don’t, you’re a traitor who hates our country.
@58….I think you just summed up American politics in 2010.
Its a shame and a tragedy that we have gotten ourselves to this point. I think all the partisans can pat themselves on the back for a job well done.
Doctors finally found their way inside YLB’s head:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v....._embedded#
and as had long been rumored, it was clogged with grease!
End of news alert!
53 – That was funny.. nice read..
The moron at 60 could only dream of being one-millionth of one percent as funny.
“one millionth of one percent”
WTF?? who thinks of this kind of stuff? an 8th grader?
are you sure you didnt get confused with some of algores “several million degree” lava at the earth’s core?
60 – Is this a little bit more college for you?
1.0E-8 as funny…
Asswipe..