A birdie tells me that a meeting was hurriedly called at Seattle Public Schools headquarters Friday morning to address a suddenly pressing issue. I wonder if it had anything to do with this?
From: Mike Rosenberger
Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 5:26 PM
To: Gary Ikeda, Seattle Schools
Subject: Public Disclosure Act RequestDear Mr. Ikeda:
Pursuant to the Public Disclosure Act, please produce the following hard copy and electronic documents, including email:
1. All documents since January 1, 2006, relating to moving the Secondary Bilingual Orientation Center (SBOC) from its current location, including all documents mentioning potential locations.
2. All documents since January 1, 2005, relating to or discussing the potential closure of Graham Hill Elementary School.
If you withhold any documents based upon any exception to the PDA, please identify the documents with sufficient specificity to allow court review of such action.
Thank you for your attention to this request.
We have asked district officials point blank as to when they started discussing Graham Hill as a new home for the SBOC, and nobody will give us a straight answer, even though we have heard from people at the SBOC that our building was offered weeks before the CAC’s preliminary recommendation.
It would have been nice if the district had just been honest and upfront with us from the start so that we knew exactly what we were fighting. But we’ll get to the bottom of this one way or another.
are you actually accusing your democratic peeps of not being HONEST?
how does it feel to be on the receiving end?
that’s why the “end justifies the means” mentality that you so heartily cling to is not a good thing. it can cut both ways.
my god….after 40 years of the democrats runing seattle and washington state you would think it would be a complete utopia of perfection . but no!
and i don’t think anyone will soon foret your treatment of a fellow parent at your daughter’s school. god…what a complete hypocrite you are!
You are wasting your time, Goldy. Put your daughter in private school, where she will thrive and you will be dumbfounded at the vast improvement in academics that she gets taught. Learning the 3 Rs plus some history and science will ACTUALLY be taking place, instead of silly ruminating on “future-oriented thinking” being crazily labelled as racist, as it is in the Seattle Public Schools. It will amaze you.
Sorry Goldy about the post above different subject matter but reflects the same bad values and principles. Some folks will do anything to make their point at the cost to the community.
Goldy:
two words: PRIVATE SCHOOL.
Now that you got your radio gig, you can afford it. (or would your DL binges cut into money for your brat’s education).
You’re a fucktard. You are getting what you asked for. How ’bout booting out some of the libs that have been running this town for decades?
Eric’s a fucktard. He’s the fucktardiest.
Private school is stoopid. Why pay for school? School is free, or at least it should be.
Goldy’s is doing all kids in Seattle schools a service by speaking out. The management of Seattle schools needs some cleanin’ up, and it’s got little to do with politics. Republican district have their own issues (hello Columbine HS?). Goldy has chosen to stay and fight, and not quit. That’s called moral fiber.
Goldy: “It would have been nice if the district had just been honest and upfront with us from the start so that we knew exactly what we were fighting.”
Yes, and this surprises you how with the Seattle Way? Whether it is Ron Sims with the CAO or election issues, or Greg Nickels with the Monorail and the Viaduct, being upfront is not the way things are done around here.
Before everybody rips me to shreds, I’m not criticizing either Sims or Nickels on their stances on any of those issues; but neither they, nor apparently, the School District is/was being honest about their true motives/intentions/desired results. Yes, I’m sure somebody will point out the lack of honesty in other levels of government, too, but a. the subject is Seattle and b. multiple ‘wrongs’ do not produce a ‘right’.
Say “no” to private school for your daughter, Goldy. Live up to your principles.
Goldy,
Request their financial records, follow the money and you will find the problem!
They need to eliminate the racial disparity in the Graham Hill Montessori program. It just isn’t right for 85% of the white students to attend Montessori and 83% of the minority students to have to attend the “Regular” program.
Most of this disparity stems from (1) only 1 out of the 15 slots each year in the 3, 4 and 5 year old programs is open to a student who qualifies for subsidized lunches, (2) the other 14 students each year in these grades have to pay $290 per month for 10 months, or $2,900 per year, (3) far more whites are able to pay $2,900 than minorities, (4) a lot of whites are willing to pay $2,900 to get their child in a exclusive, white-oriented program, (5) for 1st grade (which is tuition-free), children in the 5 year old program (14 out of 15 tuition-paying) are guaranteed the right to advance, and the same for each subsequent grade level, and (6) the only time poor students can qualify competitively for grades 1 through 5 are when students leave the program due to attrition and vacancies occur.
I bet you Goldy wouldn’t want to eliminate the racial disparity in Graham Hill Montessori.
I have a reasonable method to eliminate this disparity immediately, at least for grades 1 through 5.
For next year, all slots in grades 1 through 5 will be open to free competition (i.e. lottery). This will eliminate the whiteness and richness resulting from the continued advancement of students whose parents were able to pay $2,900 per year for pre-school grades.
For future years, grade 1 is filled through open competition, without any preference whatsoever to students in the previous year’s five year old class whose parents were able to afford tuition. Grades 2 through 5 can then be filled by advancement preference to existing students — since one year of open competition will eliminate all the disparity at the higher grade levels.
Richard Pope @ 13
Bellevue is too lilly white.
Do something about it.
(I’ll donate the razor blades!)
DJ @ 14
My daughter’s elementary school in Bellevue has a lower percentage of whites than the Graham Hill Montessori program that Goldy’s daughter attends.
So if Goldy moves next door to me, it will tend to make the racial levels of white in both schools more equal.
In fact, most elementary schools in Bellevue have a higher percentage of non-whites than the Graham Hill Montessori program that Goldy’s daughter attends.
I think that Goldy would need to move to northern Idaho to get the kind of education he is seeking for his daughter, if Graham Hill gets closed down.
Richard…how many of the non-whites in your daughter’s school are Asian?
And, Richard, what’s the buzz in Bellevue about WASL math scores going down…while other towns around are all up?
Libertarian: Staying and fighting is a nice idea in many cases, but in this case, the time spent fighting the school is time spent losing out on your kid’s education. After 6 years in public school, I finally realized (Gary Locke was still gov. at the time) that it wasn’t ever going to get any better than this, no matter how hard I wished or talked to the teachers about what I wanted. So I followed my hunch and left, and was blown away at how much better the education was where we ended up (a private school). It’s not even close. I mean, look–they are wasting time talking about race this and race that, when they should be focusing on whether the kids are learning anything! While they label people who are “future-oriented” and racist and wallow in all that silliness, the kids are not learning what they should. in private school, they just focus on academics and helping the kids learn. Period. No time is spent putting everyone into categories of this and that. And don’t lecture me about what you think I may or may not be; I am of mixed race and I just don’t get excited about the whole race issue. I never did fit neatly into any of those little checkboxes. I just wish the kids in this state could be taught the 3 Rs and some history and science. It would be refreshing.
19% Asian
1
I like our liars better than your liars.
Rabbit @ 21
Too bad your Animal Control Officers aren’t more efficient.
Speaking of gas guzzlers, Air Force One is a Boeing 747, which gets 1/5th mile per gallon of jet fuel, and the roundtrip from D.C. to Seattle is roughly 5,600 miles, so Bush is burning 28,000 gallons of fuel to help Reichert raise campaign cash. I wonder if the GOP or taxpayer is paying for that (do I need to ask)? What a waste. Reichert could get more votes from hugging one rabbit than he’ll get from Bush burning 28,000 gallons of jet fuel. That’s 667 less barrels of oil in the world. Republican pigs. Oink, oink.
Darcy Burner didn’t need 667 barrels of oil to hug a rabbit. She accomplished it with arm power.
22
They aren’t my Animal Control Officers. If they were, I’d give them to you.
2
If students do better in private schools, why did Bush turn out to be such a miserable fucking failure?
3
Two questions for you, klake.
1) When you quote someone, could you please put quote marks (“”) around the quoted material, so we know it’s a quote and not your words? This is the approved method in the English speaking world. Otherwise, your posts look like copy-and-paste plagiarism.
2) Could you try to be more concise? Like this: What is your fucking point?
I have a feeling that the WASL requirement for the class of 2008 will end up in court. The math scores across the state didn’t go up in the same manner as the reading and writing scores. The number passing math went up about 3%, but reading and writing went up in double digits. It was assumed that since the students now have a stake in the outcome of the test, they would take it more seriously. Stay tuned – a test this subjective is wide open to criticism.
BTW, goldy gets what he deserves. Seattle schools have prided themselves on their diversity and political correctness, and have ignored the real purpose of schools: to provide an education. You voted in the morons, now live with their decisions.
5
“How ’bout booting out some of the libs that have been running this town for decades?” Commentby Eric— 6/12/06@ 4:13 pm
Fine with me, if their replacements are liberals. In case you’ve never noticed, we liberals love to fight among ourselves, and we eat our own.
9
” … being upfront is not the way things are done around here.” Commentby Kyle Broflovski— 6/12/06@ 4:22 pm
And you are comparing with what? The White House?
As long as liberals run the public schools they will be a colossal waste of money. Liberals fuck up everything they touch. Nuff said.
RIght on! This is only way to deal with this district. Nothing gets their attention faster than a team of lawyers. It’s like a screaming toddler in a crowded parking lot. I hope you get the answers you’re looking for.
If you’re keeping your Sunday KIRO slot, I hope you devote a show to Seattle Schools. Get a good screener and let the parents who’ve been screwed have their say. The stories you’ll hear will curl you hair. (I’ll save mine for Sunday. Suffice to say, that when a student is threatened with violence and reverse racism on a daily basis in their Seattle middle school, that long waiting list at a popular alterna school suddenly melts in the face of a law suit. Can you say, “Let’s not litigate?” I knew you could.)
31
For those of you who want your kids taught that the Earth is flat and 6,000 years old, there’s always home schooling to fall back on.
Janet:
To an limited degree, I agree with you. I’d like to see most of our school board slate wiped clean. Therefore, I’m hoping Goldy will come forward and run for a spot on the board.
For all it’s flaws, I’m not ready to give up on Seattle schools because of the unique program my younger children are enrolled in at their school. It’s the only one of it’s kind in the state. As long as they get what they need, we’ll dig in and fight.
I *left* the Lake Washington District for Seattle. Not the other way around.
Oops, wrong photo. Here’s the picture of the one-room school Dufus graduated from. http://waltonfeed.com/old/outhous3.jpg
It take repubs to fix liberal messes. It took Reagan to fix the Carter mess. It took Giuliani to fix Dinkins/Koch mess in New York.
36
You can have an outhouse as a school and it would still out perform the Seattle public schools. Well maybe not at putting condoms on cucumbers. Hehe
roger (I’ll not use any f-bombs, as it really doesn’t add to the discussion in any way, hint hint), Bill Gates went to a private school and didn’t hang around much for college. He looks like a testment to the value of a great K-12 education.
testment=testament
Richard…ah..makes sense
37
“It take repubs to fix liberal messes.” Commentby RUFUS Fitzgerald Kennedy— 6/12/06@ 7:57 pm
Who do you recommend should fix Repub messes? Bwaaa-haaa-haa-ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
36
“You can have an outhouse as a school and it would still out perform the Seattle public schools.” Commentby RUFUS Fitzgerald Kennedy— 6/12/06@ 8:00 pm
You’d never know from YOUR spelling and grammar.
39
Gates is a fucking genius. It didn’t matter what school he went to.
ROGER RABBIT QUIZ
Bill Gates is a fucking genius because:
[ ] 1. He went to a private school
[ ] 2. He has a high I.Q.
The only shools worse than the Seattle public schools are other public school districts.
38 & 39
You could send Dufus to Lakeside and a turd in an outhouse would still outperform him.
Pope: You never answered the question about the reaction that Bellevue schools’ MATH WASL scores are falling, while nearby districts are gaining!
And that Bellevue trails Issaquah, Northshore, Lk. Washington and is just slightly ahead of Shoreline in math.
Are the folks there worried?
Of course the Seattle public schools do have there advantages. Where else would you get legal protection for being a pedophile? As long as your union dues are paid in full. hehehe
For all it’s flaws, I’m not ready to give up on Seattle schools because of the unique program my younger children are enrolled in at their school. It’s the only one of it’s kind in the state. As long as they get what they need, we’ll dig in and fight.
I *left* the Lake Washington District for Seattle. Not the other way around.
Commentby WenG— 6/12/06@ 7:43 pm
Wen G that explains your problem today. I hope your children do not get short change as tou did in Seattle.
ROGER RABBIT POLL
Bill Gates is smart because:
[ ] 1. He attended a private school
[ ] 2. He’s smart
roger: The answer is–He’s smart AND he went to a good school. Every kid needs a good foundation from which to spring. You know that. Even Christine Gregoire knows that. But even a smart kid needs some core knowledge to function. Bill Gates would not achieve as much if he was illiterate and couldn’t add numbers.
..and some schools just do a far better job teaching numbers and reading and writing. I’ll bet Gary Locke sends his kids to private school. Does anyone out there know for sure? Would love to know.
Bill Gates is a fucking genius because:
[ ] 1. He went to a private school
[ ] 2. He has a high I.Q.
[ ] 3. He did not attend public school
[X] 4. All of the above
Bush’s poll numbers must be up. We havent heard poll numbers from the left in weeks. Either that or they are running out of new democrats to take poll numbers from. Hehe
WenG – you are proving the point I’ve been trying to make ever since goldy started this rant. The specialized programs that Seattle does seem to be quite successful. It is the regular programs that aren’t making it. So, the parents who are lucky enough to get their children into the special programs are happy, and those who don’t leave if they can.
This smells suspiciously like charter schools. Special programs that are customized for a certain population. Like Montessori at Graham Hill. They stay if they attract an following, otherwise they fold. So why not just admit it, and go forward? Allow all parents the option of a charter school that meets their needs?
Re:WASL – I’m not convinced that there wasn’t something odd going on with the Math. The results are not statistically consistent with past results or with other tests. I know of a student who excels at math and has always tested in above the 95% percentile on every math test given, and only scored a level 3 on this test. It is passing, but not what would be expected.
Roger @ 30: “And you are comparing with what? The White House?”
Here, I’ll repeat myself just for you:
“Yes, I’m sure somebody will point out the lack of honesty in other levels of government, too, but a. the subject is Seattle and b. multiple ‘wrongs’ do not produce a ‘right’.”
WenG, Janet S,
What about violence in Seattle Public Schools? I just learned that at African American Academy last week three 8th grade (or maybe 7th) grade girls beat the hell out of female classmate sending her to the hospital with face lacerations and a concussion. I was floored (and will be pulling my 1st grader out of there next year) – is this SOP for much of Seattle schools? Do administrations cover this violence up? Are there stats on student/student violence and student/teacher violence at SPSs?
Darcy Burner didn’t need 667 barrels of oil to hug a rabbit. She accomplished it with arm power.
Commentby Roger Rabbit— 6/12/06@ 7:18 pm
And Darcy Burner won’t being causing a lot of jet fuel to be burned come January 2007, since she will be staying right here in King County and not contributing that much to global warming.
48 trainwinder
If you look at the website of Bellevue SD, you’ll see the boast that they have been tested by the TMMSS (something like that) international organization and that Bellevue’s scores match those of the Asian countries doing so well in math and science. That is an international testing organization and Bellevue’s very proud of their ranking. . . Maybe something wrong with the WASL?
Richard… why do you feel the need to lie about my daughter’s elementary school? I’ve corrected you before on the racial disparity issue. You simply don’t know what the fuck you are talking about.
Richard, (somewhere way up above).
Yes, your daughter’s school in Bellevue may have non-white people in it. My school in Bellevue had a few non-white people in it too, because Bellevue likes it’s diversity, even if it’s a bit forced at times.
Race doesn’t matter. Economic status does.
What on earth does the yuppie Chinese couple (dad at Microsoft, mom at Cingular Wireless) have to do with a single mom in South Seattle in terms of education level, attitudes towards learning, resources to dedicate to children who aren’t thriving academically, etc. etc. other than both of them are “non-white”.
Unless I completely misread your remarks, it’s such a disinguenous comment that I’d ask you to excuse yourself to the men’s room to wash your mouth out with soap if I had the opportunity to do so in person.
I AM TELLING THE TRUTH ABOUT GRAHAM HILL
Graham Hill has a total of 353 students (including the Montesorri 3 year olds and 4 year olds). 268 or 75.9% are minorities and 85 or 24.1% are white.
Of the 85 white students, 72 or 84.7% attend Montesorri, and 13 or 15.3% attend the “Regular” program.
Of the 268 minority students, 45 or 16.8% attend Montesorri, and 223 or 83.2% attend the “Regular” program.
As for subsidized school lunches, for Graham Hill as a whole, 175 or 49.6% have subsidized lunches, and 178 or 50.4% do not.
Of the 178 students with non-subsidized lunches, 102 or 57.3% attend the Montesorri program, and 76 or 42.7% attend the “Regular” program.
Of the 175 students with subsidized lunches, 15 or 8.6% attend the Montesorri program, and 160 or 91.4% attend the “Regular” program.
So the Montesorri program is basically for RICH WHITE STUDENTS and the POOR MINORITY STUDENTS get stuck with the “Regular” program.
http://www.seattleschools.org/.....2final.pdf at pp. 70-71
JSA @ 61 & 62
Bellevue schools are much more diverse than Seattle schools. Mainly because a much smaller percentage of parents send their children to private school in Bellevue, than they do in Seattle.
Believe it or not, there are portions of Bellevue that are actually majority non-white. Several of our elementary schools are majority non-white — some heavily so. For example, Stevenson Elementary is only 22% white, with 52% speaking a first language other than English, and 44% qualifying for subsidized lunches.
My daughter goes to Phantom Lake, which has 56% white students. The Graham Hill Montessori has 61.5% white students.
There will be some serious backlash for you now that you and your group have lawyered up Goldy. Your arrogance knows no bounds. You want to keep the hard work you’ve put in, a Montessori education for your daughter, a nice school campus, all funded mostly by Seattle Public Schools. In short, you want what almost amounts to a private school, for free. You keep digging in further, and the next step will be to use your radio show to continue to attack Seattle Public Schools to your own ends. Don’t be suprised when the media, the district and others turn this around and make you the focus of the debate. You are behaving exactly the same way Sound Politics does on other issues with which you don’t agree. A bully pulpit is not the answer, you are going to lose.
“These two communities share little in common except for one thing: In some theoretical world, their children all go to the same schools.
Note the key word: theoretical. Almost All the Central cluster schools have African American student populations of 75% or more.”
Commentby jsa on commercial drive— 6/13/06@ 1:09 am
Graham Hill is the exception which proves the rule. It basically consists of two schools in one — a Montessori program for most of the white students (and the richer Asian minorities), and a “Regular” program for minority students (blacks, SE Asians, Hispanics, and a few really poor whites).
Liberals like Goldy would like to create more Graham Hills, so that they can send their children to “integrated” schools without having to attend class with too many blacks, Hispanics, SE Asians (or poor whites for that matter).
Pope — see 47: I’m impressed you rail against Goldy on every point but don’t, yourself, respond to the points brought against your comments! (see 47).
Pope @ 64: You said “Bellevue schools are much more diverse than Seattle schools”
FACT (from OSPI site): Bellevue schools are 64% White, 25% Asian, 9% Hispanic, 3% Black (each rounded so adds to more than 100%).
Seattle schools are 41% White, 23% Asian, 22% Black, 11% Hispanic, 2% Native American.
PLEASE do as you expect others and admit you were wrong. Provably wrong.
Skagit @59: Bellevue math SAT scores have been flat with the state for years. Now their math WASLs drop when every district around them is going up (and yes, they are below a number of districts).
Yet, you take issue with the measurement…instead of assuming there is a potential issue. And you point to one measurement where there is no comparision among local districts.
When real data is available, it really should be used and not thrown out because you don’t like the result.
And, by the way, Bellevue was just fine with the WASL from a PR side when they did well last year (before this year’s results were announced) – they didn’t seem to take issue with the measurement. As quoted on their site: “Compared to all public school districts in the state with at least 5,000 students, Bellevue’s 2005 high school WASL scores rank in the top 5 in all subject areas. Of districts with at least 5,000 students, our 10th graders ranked #1 in Math, #1 in Science, #2 in Reading, and #4 in Writing.”
The good news is that Bellevue apparently does take it much more seriously than you do (as they show on the front page of their school district website).
richard @ 64:
We seem to be having a disconnect. I see your numbers and anecdotes as proving my point. Bellevue is an affluent community. You don’t have to be rich and white to live there, but it sure helps.
Phantom Lake seems nice enough. It has blacks and Asians, but not in scary numbers. Poverty, yes, but not a lot.
Stevenson is an exception. It is poor and majority-minority, but it represents one school. Nice Bellevue parents can dodge that particular land mine with relative ease.
Seattle is a rich city with a dark, poverty-filled center. Worse, a lot of that poverty is down on the South end. It’s not one school. There are 15 or 20 schools with Stevenson-ish demographics. If you’re a young parent living South of the Montlake cut, you don’t have one poor majority-minority school. You have six of them to choose from on the enrollment form!
It’s fun to pick on affluent white liberals. We’re an easy target. The thing is, nobody, white, black, Asian, liberal, conservative, Trotskyite or raving Fascist wants to send their children to a school where their child sticks out like a sore thumb. It would be nice if Seattle had less poverty, or at least had it broken into small, easy to manage pieces, but we missed the urban planning movement by a good 45 or 50 years. Bellevue was a planned city. It was Seattle’s white flight suburb during the 60s and 70s. A lot of what you see in Bellevue today is reaping the success of building a city where poor people were largely excluded. I am actually happy to see it’s looking a little more normal than the lily-white relentlessly upper-middle class place I grew up in all those years ago.
Das: I’m with you. I don’t know what kind of stats the district is keeping other than suspensions and expulsions. This is the only information that’s available from individual school reports at the website.
My son wasn’t moved until another student threatened to kill him, and even then, this student wasn’t suspended until my son filed a police report after he was beat up, off school grounds. The vice principal was working to stop the conflict, but the principal didn’t care. But then, this was the middle school where a 7th grader was raped by two other students on the playground, while school was still in session. A week later, when the principal held an assembly to discuss what happened, he refused to answer female students who asked if they were safe at school.
Has your principal spoken to parents about what happened at your school?
@66 That is such a stupid, hatefilled, and wrong headed assertion based on partisan, jealousy, and venom:
“Liberals like Goldy would like to create more Graham Hills, so that they can send their children to “integrated” schools without having to attend class with too many blacks, Hispanics, SE Asians (or poor whites for that matter).”
Richard, you prove over and over why you could never deserve the public’s trust.
Well, as someone close to the CAC I will tell you nothing was said, not a single thing about Graham Hill and SBOC. In fact, the staff at SBOC asked to remain where they are on Queen Anne. The community groups representing the SBOC would like it moved as the majority of its population lives in the Central/southend. But they have no interest in displacing anyone.
JSA @ 68
Bellevue is not some “lilly-white” enclave as compared to Seattle.
The 2000 census figures have Bellevue at 74.3% “white” and 5.3% Hispanic. This 74.3% “white” figure includes Hispanic whites, so it is a bit higher than the “white” percentage used by the school system (which excludes Hispanics as “white”).
The 2000 census figures have Seattle at 70.1% “white” and 5.3% Hispanic. Virtually no difference in either statistic from Bellevue.
Obviously, the school system demographics vary quite a bit between Bellevue and Seattle. Most of this comes from the extremely heavy tendency of affluent liberal white parents in Seattle to send their children to private schools.
Richard:
Bellevue in the 70s was lily white. I was there. You weren’t. Please don’t misread what I am saying.
Bellevue now is somewhat more normal racially. It is economically FAR richer (on average) than Seattle. If the census numbers don’t show that for you, the number of kids taking reduced-price lunches should. (note that you have to be pretty damn poor to qualify for a free lunch in the public school system).
I really appreciate your efforts at politeness, patience, and your excellent attempts to try to paint these communities as being similar to each other. Unfortunately, they aren’t, and no quantity of statistical cherry-picking to the contrary is going to make it so.
Richard:
You respond to others but leave this one alone. Can you respond (as you would have others do to your points)?
Pope @ 64: You said “Bellevue schools are much more diverse than Seattle schools”
FACT (from OSPI site): Bellevue schools are 64% White, 25% Asian, 9% Hispanic, 3% Black (each rounded so adds to more than 100%).
Seattle schools are 41% White, 23% Asian, 22% Black, 11% Hispanic, 2% Native American.
PLEASE do as you expect others and admit you were wrong. Provably wrong.
You and Stefan are getting more and more alike, Goldy.
Just. Can’t. Let. It. Go.
Speaking of not letting things go, Stefan’s obsession with King County Elections appears to be downright unhealthy. The man’s losing his grip on reality.
How does jsa define poverty? He keeps citing his upbringing in lilly white Bellevue to underscore his expertise regarding poverty sticken Seattle. I live on the wrong side of the 31st Ave S that he describes and I don’t see it. I see a school district that pumps millions into the schools, dynamic business and housing patterns. There is no poverty where an evironment of expectation and excellence reigns – if poverty determined what you become in life America wouldn’t have half the leaders, athletes, artists, businessmen and other great achievers in all fields. Seattle is a fantastic place for a kid to grow up in; I see unlimited opportunity; tremendous community support at all levels for all races; compared to any other place in America Seattle is practically heaven; prove me wrong.
Pope @ 64: You said “Bellevue schools are much more diverse than Seattle schools”
FACT (from OSPI site): Bellevue schools are 64% White, 25% Asian, 9% Hispanic, 3% Black (each rounded so adds to more than 100%).
Seattle schools are 41% White, 23% Asian, 22% Black, 11% Hispanic, 2% Native American.
PLEASE do as you expect others and admit you were wrong. Provably wrong.
Commentby Thomas Trainwinder— 6/13/06@ 10:13 am
I stand by my earlier comments.
The student body in Bellevue public schools much more closely mirrors the demographic composition of the general public in Bellevue, than the student body in Seattle schools mirrors the demographic composition of the general public in Seattle.
The 2000 census figures show Bellevue with 69% non-Hispanic whites, while student enrollment (presumably 2005-06) is 64% white.
The 2000 census figures show Seattle with 65% non-Hispanic whites, while student enrollment (presumably 2005-06) is 41% white.
You basically have to take over half of the white children in Seattle out of public school in order to change a 65% white majority into a 41% white minority — even if you didn’t take a single minority child out of public school.
Richard @ 78:
This is what’s scary about the extremes. They make outrageous comments, are shown specific data that shows they are 100% wrong — and their next step is….to stand corrected and apologize?
No…it’s to massage the data in yet another way to continue the attempt to falsify the conclusion. (He groups people together in non-meaningful ways).
Simply unbelievable.
I am glad for the public disclosure request
closing the school makes no sense
and doesn’t save dollars either due to remodels necessary to move the preschool
and to set GH up for older students
Richard,
I’m really enjoying this. Seriously. You are working with a premise and presenting facts to support your premise. Unfortunately, you are ignoring small parts that cause your argument to fall apart:
Bellevue, WA Census data
Seattle, WA Census data:
You will just have to go to these pages and read the curves. There is no simple way to summarize. The bottom of the curve (households making less than 25,000/year) are dramatically larger percentages in Seattle than in Bellevue. Single parent households are a greater percentage of the population in Seattle than in Bellevue. Median household income is $20,000 higher per household in Bellevue than in Seattle. Families in every income bracket above $60,000/year are more plentiful in Bellevue than in Seattle, in some cases by as much as 3 percentage points in a given bracket. (You know, two percent here, three percent here, and we’re talking really big bunches of people).
Everything finally comes from demographics, Richard. You are ignoring a huge elephant in the room, and saying it doesn’t exist or doesn’t matter. You are wrong, sir. Wrong, wrong, wrong!
Will someone PLEASE tell me how removing 32% of the students in Seattle from public school — the vast majority of these 32% being white — somehow makes the remaining 68% of students attending public school “more diverse”? Only if you are using the words “more diverse” to mean “fewer whites”.
Let’s suppose you were taking a public opinion poll among Seattle voters. You end up with a sample pool of 300 voters. 240 of these voted for Kerry and 60 of these voted for Bush.
I would call this sample pool politically “diverse”, since it reflects pretty accurately the political sentiments in Seattle, which was carried by Kerry over Bush by approximately 4-to-1.
Maybe others would not call it politically “diverse”, since 80% of the group voted for one candidate, and only 20% voted for the other candidate — i.e. a 4-to-1 disparity in favor of one candidate over the other.
Now let’s suppose we subtract 200 people — or 2/3 — from the sample poll. We only subtract Kerry supporters. We are left with 40 Kerry supporters and 60 Bush supporters.
Would you call the new sample pool more politically “diverse”, because the two candidate’s supporters are more evenly balanced? Even though it doesn’t look at all like a typical political cross-section of Seattle voters.
Richard,
I’m sorry you don’t like the response you are getting.
I cannot make it any clearer than I have.
My point is, you keep saying “Look! We have non-white people in the Bellevue schools! Diverse! See!!” Big effing deal. I cannot explain any clearer than I have why the token non-whiteness of Bellevue schools does not impress me.
Very rich people don’t like to send their kids to school with very poor people. You keep harping on race. I don’t care.
If the very rich people were black, or Hispanic, or Star-Bellied Sneeches, and the poor people were white, or Indian, or no-Stared Sneeches, the outcome would be the same.
p.s. Das. I like Seattle. I live in Seattle at least part of the time. My oldest daughter is in the Seattle Public Schools and is happy there. We are also down in South Seattle, on Beacon Hill, which is not the wrong side of anywhere IMHO.
Richard has a subtext to his messages that the Seattle schools have white flight because white liberals say one thing and do another, and nice Bellevueites don’t. My point is that they are different cities with very different demographics, and no quantity of Richard playing with pie charts to show Bellevue’s diversity will change that.
Peace out dudes. Tomorrow’s a school day here.
Richard has a subtext to his messages that the Seattle schools have white flight because white liberals say one thing and do another, and nice Bellevueites don’t.
Commentby jsa on commercial drive— 6/14/06@ 1:42 am
That’s exactly what I am saying. And that is exactly what you see in Seattle. The wealthier and whiter neighborhoods in Seattle are overwhelmingly liberal these days. They tend to vote Democrat just as much, if not more, than the less wealthy and more non-white neighborhoods do.
Basically, there has been a massive vote of no-confidence in Seattle public schools by the same wealthy white liberals who run the school system and run the city government. Their children go to private school. Whites who are not liberal have tended to move out of Seattle, or not settle in Seattle in the first place. Much of this has to do with Seattle just being too liberal.
Other factors include not wanting to live in a city where so many of their fellow whites don’t send their children to public school — why live somewhere if your friends (or at least your children’s friends!) and neighbors don’t send their children to school with yours? Why inflate your cost of living by $15K per year per child for private school tuition?
roger@21………thank you for finally showing your true colors.
“I like our liars better than your liars.”
honest people don’t like ANY kind of liars. there aren’t sides when it comes to liars roger….they are just liars…period.
don’t you see how pointless and childish this tribal mentality is?
and roger….gates is nothing but a thief! where have you been ? genius? hardly. it doesn’t take genius to screw the REAL genius out of his invention for 8,000 bucks when you knew it would be worth millions. it doesn’t take genius to screw over smaller companies so that you hold a monopoly. and you stupid lefties worship at his feet and rip apart haliburton???
god…your hypocracy knows no bounds does it?
and roger….gates is nothing but a thief! where have you been ? genius? hardly. it doesn’t take genius to screw the REAL genius out of his invention for 8,000 bucks when you knew it would be worth millions. it doesn’t take genius to screw over smaller companies so that you hold a monopoly. and you stupid lefties worship at his feet and rip apart haliburton???
god…your hypocracy knows no bounds does it?
sorry about the double post……