I’m still processing the news of the protests in Olympia, but so far it’s been pretty inspiring. Things like this create the space to do, if not good, at least less bad. Still, there’s a 2/3-or-a-vote requirement to pass any tax increases. The Democrats still have a record of spinelessness, and the Republican agenda is still horrible. The budget hole is still awful.
So, I have a bit more hope for the special session than I did this morning. But I’m still skeptical that the actual gritty work of legislating will produce the kind of budget that Washington needs. We’ll see.
But we’ll also act. So those of us who can’t be down in Olympia can still call or email your legislator. You can write on a blog, or social media. You can call into talk shows and write letters to the editor.
I’ve done that every session since 2008. My reps are Sam Hunt and was Brendan Williams. Senator is Karen Fraser. Sam and Brendan always responded. Mostly that they felt the same. Brendan would actually report the absurd shenanigans that pass for legislative work and how the process has stayed at the top (Brown and Chopp) and the less senior legislators had no voice, really. Not much opportunity to be heard. Crickets from Fraser.
So there is no mystery that we have stale thinking and very little in the way of gumption amongst the elective body. They are all helpless to do anything about it.
Nothing on the table is big enough. Here is something I just sent to the Times:
Governor Christine Gregoire’s wants another 0.5% bump in the state’s sales tax. Maybe that’s the best she can do. It is just another bandaid. It is a lean-to on the back of the garage, still on the scale of the soda and sin taxes, the increased park fees, higher tuition rates, shaving paychecks to teachers, closing this or that loophole. These are chicken coops, not capable or worthy of housing Washington’s family.
But there is a ramshackle barn in Washington’s tax structure that with a one-step upgrade could quickly provide the scale of the revenue the state needs, while at the same time getting rid of a distortion-riden relic that does more harm to Washington business than good. This is the B&O tax.
A change to deduction rules – simply allowing deduction of purchases from other tax-paying entities – alters the tax from one of gross receipts to one of net receipts and makes the B&O stable and fair. Economists like taxes with broad bases and low rates. Citizens should too. They act as overhead charges, not obstacles to purchases or hiring. Since the B&O applies to almost everybody, everywhere, it could finally put a roof over the state’s budget.
AnswerForWashington.com
I’m wondering if the best thing to do is to just do nothing. Ignore them and let them hang themselves with their own rope. It’s just I theory. I reserve the right to change my mind at any time.
Still, there’s a 2/3-or-a-vote requirement to pass any tax increases.
Carl, this is highlighting a point that goes overlooked in these protests. The biggest problem we face in America right now isn’t necessarily the amount of money in politics or how campaigns are funded (although I’m reading Lessig’s new book on that). I think the biggest problem we face is that voters simply aren’t engaged enough with our politics to separate truth from fiction, or to even understand what’s in their interest. I’m not sure there’s an easy answer to that.
re 4: The melodrama of professional wrestling is probably the best metaphor for American politics. I think that the Republicans understand and use this insight better than the Democrats do at this point in time.
At some point, the good guy has to stop taking the bad guy’s guff and rip him a new one.
@4 Lee on 11/28/2011 at 9:14 pm,
That’s not an accident. It is in the design.
No, the solution to the problem is not easy. Organizing is hard.
$2.5 billion a year goes from Seattle/King County to other counties. Mostly to the Rethug counties. What is strange is in the Rethug counties they believe their tax money flows into Seattle/KC instead.
I suggest that if we can’t raise taxes then taxes be kept in the county where the tax money is raised. This would not take a 2/3 majority vote.
# 2: That’s a half-step into turning the B&O Tax into an income tax on business.
Not that I’m opposed to an income tax on business. Most small and medium-sized businesses in Washington would prefer that to the current tax on gross receipts. The current system favors the big guys, who extort the state for preferable rates for their industry with the threat of moving elsewhere.
But I think a fresh start would be preferable to trying to fix the Rube Goldberg contraption which currently approximates the B&O tax. The form could be very simple – take the adjusted gross income as found on the federal tax returns and multiply by the state rate. It’s much easier than the current system, and wouldn’t involve extra accounting.
The problem isn’t implementation. It’s political. Expect the big guys in Washington to hit hard against business tax reform. Boeing, Amazon, etc. will threaten to move elsewhere and call it a “job killer”.
@8 Capitalists don’t believe in competition, they believe in destroying competition so they can manipulate markets and charge monopoly prices. That’s why Boeing took a $500 million loss on its Air Force tanker project to keep Airbus from establishing a North American assembly line. That’s why, a century ago, John D. Rockefeller moved into new markets by giving away heating oil for free until his competitors went bankrupt and he could buy their refineries for 5 cents on the dollars. (Needless to say, the price of his heating oil went up — a lot — after there was no more competition; taking his free heating oil was the most dangerous thing his competitors’ customers could do.)
And, now, we have Costco paying $22 million to buy an initiative that not only kicks the state out of the retail liquor business, but also makes sure convenience stores and moms-and-pops can’t get into that business. Costco wants that business for itself — and wants to keep competitors out. What do you think the odds are that the stupid voters who voted for this initiative will ever see the lower liquor prices they thought they were getting by voting for it? Nobody goes to the trouble and expense of creating a monopoly in order to lower prices.
Now visualize a B&O tax that charges small businesses 4 or 5 times the rate paid by Big Business. Voila! — no small competitors nipping at Big Business’s heels with better products, better customer service, or better prices. A skewed B&O tax is a tremendous anti-competitive tool for established businesses that want to keep startups and small competitors out of our state. The last thing they want is replacement of the B&O tax with a corporate income tax. They like things just the way they are.
I wonder if some creative lawyer could bring a successful antitrust suit against the state to get differential B&O rates invalidated by the courts? You’d probably have to sue in federal court under federal law.
# 11: With the current makeup of the U.S. Supreme Court, I doubt it would ultimately prevail. Remember, that five of them think that corporations are people. I’ll believe that when one gets executed by the State of Texas.
Not too shabby.
As rabbit keeps saying, we all gave ourselves a voluntary tax cut and stopped buying as much stuff. Of course they want to increase the sales tax.
# 13: That’s the problem with a sales tax. It’s particularly subject to economic fluctuations and the “consumer confidence index”, as measured on the street level.
If you have 9% of people unemployed, you would expect a 9% decrease in sales tax collections. But it doesn’t work that way.
(a) In addition to the 9% unemployed, you probably then have half of the remainder worried if they, too, might join the ranks of the unemployed soon. Employers fuel this pessimism by telling employees things are tough, somebody’s probably going to be laid off, and there will be salary cutbacks and everyone has to work harder. Those folks are going to cut back on non-essential spending until they feel their jobs are more secure again.
(b) the 9% unemployed cut back on spending even more significantly, as not all qualify for unemployment benefits, and those that do have trouble making rent, utilities, and basic food purchases. This means lower revenue to all the people who used to sell to them, reducing their own tax payments, etc.
(c) An awful lot of tax surpluses in 2005-2007, which generated cash for the rainy day fund, were caused by lots of people buying houses during the real-estate bubble caused by loose lending practices. You can buy a lot of groceries all year long, but one house purchases dwarfs the other spending. With the real estate market still depressed, the state will take years to recover it’s revenue based solely on sales taxes.
Given what was posted about the “Death of Suburbia”, I don’t see housing prices and taxes from them EVER coming back to near the levels they were before.
The recent Supreme Court decision regarding the personhood of corporations is not something that just suddenly sprung out of the blue — at least — not now:
In 1886, in the case of Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad Company, the U.S. Supreme Court decided that a private corporation is a person and entitled to the legal rights and protections the Constitutions affords to any person. Because …. http://www.ratical.org/corpora.....R1886.html
The right will inevitably refer to this decision as legal precedent. What say you Senor Rabbit?
Of course, Roger Rabbit is right. We would do a lot better, both personally and as a nation, to emulate the Japanese, and save for purchases instead of borrowing. That would reduce our exposure in times of economic uncertainty – we would have savings to fall back on, and we wouldn’t have to be making debt payments while unemployed.
The down side of this, however, is that it makes the Fed a very blunt instrument for adjusting the economy. It’s primary method of goosing the economy is to lower interest rates, which it hopes will encourage borrowing and ultimately deficit spending by consumers. If we don’t spend based on borrowed money, this tactic has little effect.
@15
We have to realize that what came before where we’re at now was the largest debtor society and the largest stock market bubble in the history of mankind. Those “before” numbers that everyone wants to get back to were a phantasm.
We need to make some major changes in our society. Your last two years of high-school probably need to be turned into a system where you either go into college prep or go into some form of skills training and internships. As long as the voc-tec kids have a shot at college or some other skills training later on this should work fine. With Boeing and Amgen picking up the price of some of kids schooling it will help out the state budget. The biggest hurdle to this is probably that American adolescence seems to last until 25 these days.
We need to get people living back in small towns and cities. When I was a kid that ghastly wasteland between Sea-Tac and Tacoma was a charming place with a few small towns a lot of woods and a smattering of hobby farms. How you convince people to move out of and stop building in sprawl areas is beyond me, but we can’t afford to pay them. We never really could afford it, we cooked the books (and the planet and killed all the salmon) to make it look like we could.
@18
Nobody wants to raise their kids in a 20 story box. The childless wannabe hipsters will live there, but when they finaly grow ujp and have a family, the urban lifestyle just doesn’t cut it, and they move on….just ask lee.
19 LMAO! You mean this Lee??
https://twitter.com/#!/Lee_Rosenberg
Twitter is the gehy…….figures you would be into it
Done all the time in NYC, Hong Kong, Vancouver BC…
21 – No use denying you’re a dumbass who’d confuse Rujax with the “lee” you mention in 18.
Way to go genius!
Michael @ # 18:
“…With Boeing and Amgen picking up the price of some of kids schooling it will help out the state budget…..”
Actually, there are already apprenticeship programs in place, as well as training programs associated with the community colleges specifically geared to the 787 program.
Only problem is, they are paid by the State of Washington for Boeing’s benefit – part of the deal they made to get the 787 production line in Everett. But they should have inserted some long-term guarantees which prevent Boeing from skimming off the work to Charleston and other locations.
@22. Because they are forced to in those areas….not so much here.
I should be considered child abuse to raise kids in that environment…
@19
Looks like it’s time for another edition of I said you said.
I said:
You said:
Every seen a 20 story box in a small town? We could double the population of Gig Harbor while never breaking 30 feet and with on a small % of the new homes being multi-family.
According to the US census multi-family units of all kinds comprise 49.4% of housing in Seattle. The 20 story boxes are probably only a small sliver of what’s available in multi-family.
Judging by the prices on those “20 story boxes” I doubt many “hipsters” could afford to live there. They’re most likely living 2 to a room in a large house built before WWI. Like everyone else and every group that did this before them (I used to live in a house with 5 guys and 2 of their girlfriends, it always smelled like cross between butt and stale beer. That got old quick) it will get old after a while and they’ll move on.
There’s no shortage of kids going to school in Seattle. As a matter of fact, there’s so many kids going to school in Seattle that there’s a shortage of schools.
I’m not saying and have never said that everyone should live in a place like Seattle. I don’t live in Seattle and quite frankly, I wouldn’t want too (Btw, I’m 43. I’m hardly a young hipster). I’m in a town of 8,000 right now and that’s working fine for me. I could move to many other towns and small cities and be just fine. Cle Elum’s a nice place if you can find a job in town. Like I said. Small towns are fine. I could move back to Spokane and like it just fine.
You said.
Suburbia didn’t exist prior to the 1890’s and most it was created post WWII. So this notion that people have always lived in the burbs and will always move to the burbs is just wrong.
You’re also ignoring how we’re going to pay for the upkeep of unincorporated areas. In case you haven’t noticed we’re broke. Keeping The ‘Burbs functioning is more expensive than keeping a town or city functioning.
Finally there’s this:
And this:
I could list more, but I know you’re not going ever accept the truth. You’re too hardcore for that.
@then rujax shouldn’t be claiming lee’s blogs as his own.
Not to worry though, his blogs are like yours: nobody reads them.
Now run along girly-man, before you get stomped on.
@27
You seem a bit obsessed with mentally ill street kids. That’s probably not very healthy.
Oops, looks like I left off an I. I meant pre-WWII. The median build date for homes in Seattle is 1946
http://www.epodunk.com/cgi-bin.....ndex=24992
OK, so there’s two problems with my plan.
1. One convincing kids and parents that adolescence should end at 18 or 19, not 25.
2. Getting Boeing to pay their own fucking bills.
@what do you mean, she was the lefty poster child for ows movement…next time you guys should vet your poter children a little better….same goes for the professional protestor granny…..
# 29: I remember living in a modified Victorian home as an undergraduate. The landlord was an assistant professor who bought dilapidated houses on the side, split them up into as many apartments as he could, and then rented to students. The one house I was in probably had twenty students living there.
The problem was, the place still looked dilapidated. He did absolutely nothing to restore the outside of the building. I offered to get the other tenants together and paint the house, as long as he would supply the paint. He looked horrified. “Don’t do that!” he insisted. “The tax assessor will just raise my tax bill. I keep it looking like that for a reason. I want him to be scared to even step foot inside the building!”
Later, I learned that this was true for a lot of poorer tenants. The white suburban folks used to cluck there tongues and mutter about how the poor folk were “that way” because they don’t take care of their property. But the poor folk know from experience that if they fix up the property themselves, the landlord will just raise the rent. “Oh, it looks much nicer now! I’m going to have to start charging more rent. If you can’t pay it, somebody else will!”
We need to get people living back in small towns and cities.
People will do what’s affordable and maximized their quality of life. That used to be the suburbs. When living in the suburban styx becomes too expensive, they will move in and abandon the burbs to the squatters and the trees and get the most bang for the buck in the city.
@31
It’s your unhealthy obsession with her that we’re discussing here.
Yep! But, that was only possible through all sorts of zoning laws and tricks and subsidies to the builders and to the motoring public. If they’d had to pay their own way, we’d still have some suburbs, but they’d be both smaller and much more densely populated.
We need to stop subsidizing the ‘burbs.
@32
Bet it didn’t smell that great in the summer time!
We need to stop subsidizing the ‘burbs.
If nothing else, when we run out of money, we will stop.
# 30: Well, getting adolescents to become emancipated at 18 is a middle-class problem. When I graduated from high school three months after my 18th birthday, and my summer job fell through (it was a rescession year), I went straight to college. The idea of living at home for a summer with no money was abhorant to me. The upside was that I got to graduate in three years, once I discovered that going to college in the summers had it’s advantages.
For the poor, it’s simply a problem of finding a job or some way to pay for a trade school or college. It’s a continuation of the same struggles they’ve lived with their entire life. They plan to live at home because there is no way they can afford their own apartment at subsistance wages or live in a dorm while attending college.
For the rich, the idea that they are “emancipated” at 18 is a rather novel concept. Studies show that most of the rich get accepted into college because of their family’s wealth and social position, they join fraternaties and sororities to seal their social ties within their social-economic class, then after college they go to work in the family business, where their parents groom them to ultimately take over the business some 20 or 30 years later. They are never truly “emancipated”, their parents control their lives and have a control over their futures, a fact which most of them are reminded of on occassion. The upside of this loss of comparitive freedom, of course, is that they are NOT allowed to fail, that the parents will ensure their success through family resources and connections, and they will live very, very well in the meantime. It’s a bit of a cage, but a gilded one – which sometimes account for the seemingly irrational, rebellious, and self-destructive behavior some exhibit from time to time.
@18, @19, @26 Our daughter and her husband recently moved to Vancouver BC. He has a job connected with the movie industry (they met when they both lived in LA) and prior to this they lived for a year in Australia and more recently, six months in Wellington, NZ. (They absolutely adored Kiwi-land, but decided it was too far from their families to stay there permanently.)
They’ve pretty much decided to put down roots where they are now and start a family. (Medical care becomes a huge issue when you start having kids, unless you’re completely stupid.) They’re renting a small apartment with an incredible view 14 stories up in a newish building, and looking for something larger on a purchase or long-term lease. There are lots of families with kids in their neighborhood–there’s a park right across the street from their place that gets lots of use. Vancouver’s geography is such that there’s nowhere to grow but up. A modest two-bedroom house in the city goes for over a million and a half.
Is this better or worse than suburbia? Well, it is different, but at least you’re living in something built for stout. As mentioned above, the oversize houses being turned into multiplexes in “slumburbia” aren’t all that well built, and with a collapsing tax base sustaining basic services out in the boonies is going to get more and more difficult. Then again, if you want to see some really crappy construction, take a look at some of the five-story stick-built condo blocks in Ballard and Renton.
@39
Vancouver already with though all it’s troubles with poorly built condos. I’m terrible with chronology, but I want to say that was in the early 90’s.
Looking at what’s coming down the pike, a condo in Vancouver BC is a good place to be.
Nope. You’re ignorant as shit. Google lists blog reload on rujax’s profile under My Blogs but “My Blogs” is a profile category for any blogspot blog whose profile is published for viewing.
It was really a stretch to taunt rujax with “ownership” of blog reload.
You must be desperate for attention. LOL! Sure sucks to be you.
It’s already been pointed out to your pathetic stupid ass that no one in these threads save for right wing idiots like you and Puddybud ever commented on her.
What about her story was faked? NOTHING..
She saw the commotion, went to check it out and was pepper sprayed for her trouble. She and her friends were en route to a boring transportation public meeting over the tunnel.
You really live for swallowing the latest right wing bullshit.
So here comes the emperopo max-minidick. An amoral fuck lecturing on morality.
Here’s a little background on this cretin:
So the emperor max-minidick thinks kids should be raised in the great outdoors…like he probably was. In Gig Harbor or something. Maybe his dad worked for the shipyard at Bremerton, or Todd or something. Some job with a strong union and a defined benefits persion. Some job where your average guy could really support a family. Maybe the emperor max-minidick went to the lacal high school, where he did pretty good in sports then on to a State school like WSU and this is the opportunity he wants for no one else.
Nice selfish asshole son-of-a-bitch, huh…that emperor max-minidick.
41 – Oh almost forgot.. Blog reload is listed under Rujax’s “My Blogs” because Rujax wrote for Blog Reload for a brief time. He wasn’t claiming ownership..
Heh..
The handle changes..
The link to Lee’s facebook page.
Must have been at least a couple dozen comments..
What a fail!
To #18: I couldn’t agree more with what you’re saying in the second paragraph. I would add that some extra emphasis should be put on basic life skills those last two years of high school. It always amazes me that so many kids turn 18 and start to become qualified for credit and financing, but don’t have the slightest idea of how it works. Or how to handle a checking account for that matter.
To #18: I couldn’t agree more with what you’re saying in the second paragraph. I would add that some extra emphasis should be put on basic life skills those last two years of high school. It always amazes me that so many kids turn 18 and start to become qualified for credit and financing, but don’t have the slightest idea of how it works. Or how to handle a checking account for that matter.
I also think we need to reconsider the stance our schools have adopted in the last 25 years in which every child is more or less pushed into a 4-year university. I’m not trying to discount higher education entirely, but some of these kids could be much better served by a trade school, which seems to be frowned upon by so many of their peers (as well as some teachers).
@44
ahhhh, mr angry-n-jealous chimes in!
Nope, neither parent was in a union…we lived a very middle class life in suburbia. Nothing special accept the drive to succeed(you know, that thing you cant seem to achieve).
and whats wrong with gig harbor? never lived there, but its a cool town. Way too cool for the likes of losers like you.
yep, local high school..so what? and I wasnt “pretty good” at sports..I was fucking great….but thats beside the point.
opportunity isnt “given” you lazy piece of shit. Opportunity is earned. bottom dwellers like you havent earned anything, so you expect to take it from everyone else..well guess what chump, Im done giving out my hard earned money to the likes of you. go starve.
@48
the idea that everyone has to attend a 4 year school and get a degree is the biggest scam going right now.
hyopcrite
the prick “kaiser bun the first” and his little sidekick “partied too hard” clearly don’t believe in America or the American Dream.
Assholes.
how am I being a hypocrite?
the notion that having a 4 year degree is necessary to be succesful is pure bunk. It all depends on what a person wants to do.
some great careers need college…other great careers do not. its that simple. I know plenty of people who never stepped foot in college and are making over 100k a year. Its the talent behind the person, not some piece of paper.
fuck, no wonder you cant rub two pennies together.
bugger off loser….
I’m not trying to discount higher education entirely, but some of these kids could be much better served by a trade school
(sigh….)
I grew up in a conservative and poor part of Oregon. When I heard the adults talk about trade schools, it was usually in the context of trade school were best for the black and brown kids and any kid from an even poorer than our community, so the kids of my community would have an easier chance of getting into college and make something of themselves.
College was supposed to be a place to teach you to think for yourself. Trade school was a place to teach you do a job that a robot had not been invented to do yet. ( or offshored. )
Maybe that’s why people fight for a collage degree.
@53
Of the people that I know that are doing really well one’s a surgeon. One’s a welder who did 2 years of voc-tec training at the Bremerton skills center http://www.westsoundtech.com/ instead of his last two years of high school. He runs a welding shop, paid off his house at the ripe old age of 35, and bought the house next door for a rental. One got an electrician’s trainee position with Avista right out of high school and stayed with Avista. He’s 45 and getting read to retire. A couple others are teacher’s who have masters degrees, have been teaching for a while, and live fairly frugally. Ones owns a small recycling company in a rural part of the state that doesn’t have any trash pickup or recycling. He’s making about 40K a year working maybe 20 hours a week he spends the rest of the time fishing, hunting, & working and on his hobby farm which produces most his family’s food and their wood for heat. And a couple are RN’s. Both of the RN’s started out as CNA’s and the hospitals where they work paid for them to work their way up to RN’s. No debit and they were making pretty good money while they went to school.
@52
rujaxoff, you arent the american dream, you are the american failure.
be a fucking man dude(I know thats a tall order for the likes of you and ylbleeder) – take life by the nutsack and do something with it. Stop complaining like a little bitch about how well other people are doing and go try to do well for yourself.
godamned pussy…shit, I bet my 12 year old daughter could kick your ass.
There are many types of vocational school. The fields include:
Health Care
– Dentistry
– Holistic Health
– Massage Therapy
– Medical Administration
– Medical and Dental Support/Assistance
– Medical Specialty
– Nutrition
– Optometry
– Pharmacy
Creative
– Architecture
– Commercial Art
– Cosmetology
– Design
– Fashion
– Floral Design
– Graphic/Computer Design
– Interior Design
Crafts
– Musical Instrument Maker/Repairer
– Watchmaking/Repair
Food
– Culinary Arts
– Restaurant Management
Other
– Aviation
– Computer Maintenance/Repair
– Construction
– Criminal Justice
– Electronics
– Gemology
– Mortician
– Office Jobs
– Travel and Tourism
– Trucking
I would be interested to know what trade school Dentistry, Pharmacy, Aviation jobs are?
How much demand is there for Watchmaking/Repair?
Do they still have Travel and Tourism jobs in an internet booking age?
Guessing at the jobs in these categories, a few people might make fabulous money, but most jobs pay enough to get buy, if you can get the work. They are not good jobs for a middle class life.
It’s always seemed to me that thinking for your self was the natural state of things and that schools tried to train that out of you.
@55
thanks for proving my point michael.
To #54: The kids that fight to be there should undoubtedly be there – regardless of their background. I’m just questioning the wisdom of making 4-year universities an automatic extension of high school.
There are alway going to be blue collar jobs (not everything is going to be automated or shipped overseas). And they’re not all dead end jobs. There is a benefit to getting an early start in some of those fields, having more time to climb the ladder and possibly working into a white collar position in the long run.
Your point about college being a time to think for yourself is valid, but that’s not the ex
Dental Hygienist is an AA degree from a community college that pays pretty well. Same with RN’s. In both cases you can continue on to a BA and even better pay. Nothing wrong with going that route.
e.
out of touch much?
@59
No problem.
What I don’t get in all of this is that us lefty types have been saying for years that we should be more like Germany and the Nordic countries and the righties always freak out when we say it. But, when you propose moving our educational system to one more like Germany and the Nordic countries, which is exactly what I’ve been saying, the righties are on board and the lefty’s freak out.
It’s confounding.
(#60 Continued)
Not all kids are experiencing college as a time to think for themselves. For many kids it is simply a matter of prolonging adolescence for 5 or 6 years – oftentimes without obtaining a degree.
(#60 Continued)
Not all kids are experiencing college as a time to think for themselves. For many kids it is simply a matter of prolonging adolescence for 5 or 6 years – oftentimes without obtaining a degree.
@63
LOL…I was thinking the same thing.
@64
true that.
To #63: We need to stop automatically assigning a political ideology to every single idea. There are commonsense approaches to some issues that can benefit everyone.
@68
that notion will pretty much fall on deaf ears at the HA Echo-chamber.
To #57: The biggest issue I see with your list is that some of the fields are overcrowded or are carry limited opportunities. Aside from that, your list contains a number of well-paying (if maybe a bit unglamorous) jobs.
To #69: I’ve encountered a good handful of open minds at this site. And a few others who might agree, but just won’t admit it. :)