From Senate Majority Leader Lisa Brown’s blog:
Our sales-tax-based tax system is least fair tax system in the country.
It hammers lower and middle class families, who pay far more than their fair share for the essential public services from which everyone in our society benefits, like K-12 and higher education.
And now they stand to pay more for less. The global economic meltdown has forced lawmakers to make dramatic cuts in the state budget, which will disproportionately affect these same individuals.
Having a conversation about restructuring this tax system so that working class families are treated more fairly is not a conversation I am afraid of having.
So, despite the Seattle Times’ shrill ridicule, Sen. Brown isn’t afraid of publicly having that conversation. But what about House Speaker Frank Chopp?
I know Chopp understands the issue. I know he knows all about Washington’s structural revenue deficit, and I know he’s personally appalled at having the most regressive tax system in the nation. And I know he knows that our current tax structure simply isn’t sustainable over the long run.
I know this, because I’ve privately had this conversation with Chopp, on more than one occasion. The question now is whether Speaker Chopp is willing to join Sen. Brown in taking this conversation public?
Right now, Lisa Brown is the most important politician in our state, because she’s doing what every other Democrat has been waiting for someone else to do — she’s crawling out on the income tax limb to see if it holds or breaks off.
The last Washington politician who did this was a Republican — Dan Evans. But the GOP doesn’t have Dan Evanses anymore, and has evolved to where it’s institutionally incapable of producing one. There’s no chance of tax reform coming from the GOP.
The problem until now has been a lack of Democratic politicians with guts to put themselves on the firing line for tax reform. Ron Sims did, and got his head chopped off in the primary, although he wouldn’t have won anyway and there were other reasons why he lost to Gregoire. Sims deserves credit for being the first major Democratic politician to talk about an income tax, but what Brown is doing now takes it to a whole new level.
Maybe there’s a secret compact among Democratic politicians on who would carry the water on this issue. Certainly, it’s smart political strategy to keep the governor away from the “third rail.” And Gregoire certainly is smart enough to understand that ultimately any income tax proposal has to pass in the Legislature anyway, so it’s probably got a better chance if it originates there. Nevertheless, it is Lisa Brown who has gone over the top into no man’s land while the rest of them stay in the trench to see what happens to her.
No question about who the heroic figure is in all this. Now it’s time for we, the grassroots, to get behind her 100%. This is combat. Lisa has jumped out of the trench and yelled, “Follow me!” My friends, the place for the rest of us to be now is out in No Man’s Land, right behind her.
This is about the 500th thread on a state income tax. The trolls will come in here and post the same vacuous tripe they’ve previously posted 500 times. We really don’t need to argue this issue with them anymore. They’re irrelevant. The Republicans have absolutely nothing of any value to contribute. Fuck ’em, just roll over ’em, and get the job done. That’s what needs to happen now.
What gutless wonders the Dems (with a few notable exceptions like Brown) have turned out to be. What, they’re all totally petrified of Tim Eyman? They think it’s still 1994 and Newt Gingrich is going to make a special visit here and say nasty things about them? I mean, what the fuck? An all-cuts budget? Really? Isn’t this like conceding the game when you have a ten-point fourth quarter lead? Come on, kids, show a little gumption. It’ll pay off in the long run and probably the short run too, really!
This country held an election on the Republican platform of giving tax breaks to the filthy rich by eviscerating governance and public investments. The people have spoken. They rejected that approach and reaffirmed their belief in using government and our pooled resources to solve our societal problems. If the GOP now wants to collectively commit political suicide by enslaving themselves to a failed ideology instead of adapting to current practical and electoral realities, that’s their business. I don’t care what Republicans think. They’re not the obstacle to tax reform in Washington state, weak-kneed Democrats are. The only relevant question is, when are the Democrats we elected to represent us going to grow a spine and do what we elected them to do?
Actually Rabbit, you did forget one other politician who led this discussion- Booth Gardner.
In the finest patrician form, he tried to get an income tax passed in 1987-88, using much of the same rhetoric as Lisa Brown, but with the high minded reality that he would pay more than almost anyone. And, he wanted to broaden the definition of income to include unearned income, or as we say, Republican slush and trust funds for spoiled rich kids who start life on third base and think they hit a triple.
So while I have been critical of Booth at times, give him his due here as a real visionary in fighting for tax justice.
Gosh–
How wonderful to honor a woman who’s real mission is to RAISE TAXES via the Income Tax.
No Sale.
So Goldy…I have asked you repeatedly,
At what level do you set the Income Tax??
Is it Tax Neutral based on Current Revenue?…(anything more is a Tax Increase.)
Brown is attempting to co-mingle 2 issues..
Tax System and Tax Increase.
I’m also sick of her repeated reference to “fairness”. What in the heck is fair about so many people using State Government services and paying little or nothing??
Services are normally paid for by user fees.
You want your carpet cleaned, you pay.
You want your shoes shined, you pay.
In our State Government, 1 class of people pays next to nothing and you are asking another class to pay even more. How is that fair??
Just because I have money doesn’t mean I am willing to pay more so someone else can pay less to have their carpets cleaned, send kids to school, use parks, buy TV’s etc.
Fair is not the issue. This is:
Karl Marx:
From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs.
This is the bottom-line no matter how you spin it. I make the money and give it to y’all because I am willing to save, sacrifice, invest capital and work hard.
No thanks.
We will here the Marxist mantra about things like “the greater good”. Watch.
How about this–
You KLOWNS put all the money you normally spend on drugs, smokes and alcohol in a jar and send it to Gregoire.
C’mon, you can afford it!
She’s got it all wrong: the current system is extremely fair, but it may not be seen as favorable to the Dems main constituents. Under the Dems perfect system, the people on the bottom would never pay for anything, least of all government. Also, the current system stymies the Neo-socialist goal of wealth re-distribution.
Income tax? No thanks! I’ll stick with what we have now. If your conscience is bothering you send a check to:
Department of Revenue
PO Box 47450
Olympia, WA 98504-7450
Please make your check payable to “DOR,” but leave me out of your misery.
Seattle Jew–
We just might want to re-think all this Higher Education Funding. This was from a Yahoo article on Billionaires:
Let’s see, highly educated people screwed up the Financial Economy. Under-educated people built lasting, sustainable companies.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm?
Perhaps one might conclude that Higher Ed ain’t all that it’s cracked up to be?
Cynical @6,
I’ve already proposed a 3% tax on household incomes between $200K and $1 million, and a 5% tax on incomes over that, combined with a half cent reduction in the state sales tax. That would not be revenue neutral; it would raise an additional $1.5 billion per biennium.
I’m not sure how I could be any more specific.
From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs.
The phrase may also find an earlier [than 1755] origin in the New Testament. In Acts 4:32-35, the Apostles lifestyle is described as communal (without individual possession), and uses the phrase “distribution was made unto every man according as he had need”[6]:
“ 32. And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.
33. And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.
34. Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
35. And laid them down at the apostles’ feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need. ”
Hmmm, it’s almost like it would be a Christian thing to do…
10. Goldy spews:
Oh and Goldy–
How much will the tax threshhold you so courageously proposed cost you personally??
Nothing?
How courageous of you Goldy!
Another TJ–
I guess I cannot find the part where the STATE GOVERNMENT is annointed with the responsibility of redistribution.
Can you show me where it is up to the government Another TJ??
I’m sure you simply forgot that verse.
I know a lot of incredibly generous people who do plenty of redistributing without the government. People, as individuals, are called to be responsible and generous. If they are not, that is their cross to bear.
The problem with Government involvement is twofold…
1) Costly ineffective Bureaucracies.
2) Recipients look at proceeds as entitlements…not gifts or a helping hand.
Huge difference another TJ.
You made the jump from Scripture to Government…with no basis. Seems you drank the Big Government Kool-Aid.
The antidote is personal responsbility.
Try it.
How much did you donate last year??
What are you doing??
We help numerous charities with time & money..
Love, Inc.
Food Banks
Missionaries
Christian Schools
I am saddened by those who feel the desperate need to tell others how to spend their money…seems like a waste of time.
The Seattle Times peddles the canard that the middle of a serious recession is no time to impose income taxes on very high incomes, but it is sales taxes and property taxes on the poor and middle class that exacerbate recessions by taxing spending by those least able to pay. An income tax on very high incomes will raise revenues with no depressing effect on the economy.
I guess I cannot find the part where the STATE GOVERNMENT is annointed with the responsibility of redistribution.
Can you show me where it is up to the government Another TJ??
Perhaps you didn’t read the verses I quoted. The people freely gave their possessions to their chosen leaders for redistribution.
That’s all government is: our collected judgments about leaders and policy. And we’ve freely chosen a government that is more active than you want it to be. Eventually we will choose a means for funding that government that is fairer and more equitable. More Christian, even.
Of course, there’s nothing requiring you to live in Washington. If you don’t like it, you’re free to either convince people your way is best or leave. It’s called personal responsibility. You should try it sometime.
But I’m not holding my breath for either to happen. After all, you won’t succeed with the former because your approach has been discredited by its own numerous failures, and you won’t choose the latter because the states that are run on your principles are not desirable places to live.
So you stay in Washington and bitch. It may not be the Christian way of doing things, but it is your way, and you go with what you know.
@11 The Republicans and extremist right-wing Christians threw Jesus under the bus long ago.
@14 Mr. Klynical spews: “How much did you donate last year??
What are you doing??
We help numerous charities with time & money..”
Try as you might, you just can’t keep that narcissistic personality disorder of yours under wraps, can you?
I’ve always said that socialism derives directly from Christianity. That is no huge secret to anyone. This is why I abhor Christianity! I want my money! I say throw Jesus under the bus and squish him to little itty bitty pieces and feed it to the dogs!
@17 Steve: <blockquote> Try as you might, you just can’t keep that narcissistic personality disorder of yours under wraps, can you?
Well, aren’t KKK (K0NSERVATIVE KRISTIAN KLOWNS) robes “under wraps”…?
@19 Point well taken.
Geez, I was wondering why Mr. Klynical wasn’t posting his Rasmussen Polls showing that Presidential Approval Index of +4 that made him howl with glee. Well, here’s today’s results:
“The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Tuesday shows that 37% of the nation’s voters now Strongly Approve of the way that Barack Obama is performing his role as President. Twenty-nine percent (29%) Strongly Disapprove giving Obama a Presidential Approval Index rating of +8.”
Oops, now I see why he didn’t post it. It doubled in the President’s favor. My, that’s gotta really suck for our Mr. Klynical.
@21 Steve – considering Obama is supposed to be on a long honeymoon period, +8 is shockingly low. I wouldn’t be so gleeful if I were you.
@22 The latest CBS poll has him 66% approval. Heh, the latest Rasmussen has Michelle at 67% approval. All in all, another bad day for America-haters like Mr. KKKlynical and yourself. Heck, I imagine that the Rasmussen Index Approval Index was the only thing keeping Mr. KKKlynical from committing suicide. Speaking of which, we haven’t seen him since the Rasmussen was released. I wonder…
Kountry Klubber steve:
It’s narcissistic to give money to worthy causes??
Really now.
You never answer my questions you racist pig.
@24 LMFAO at you! Again!!