I’m trying to live blog the presidential debate from the Montlake Ale House, wireless router gods permitting.
UPDATE (6:12):
Anybody who had “Joe the Plumber” on their debate bingo card has already won.
UPDATE (6:17):
When John McCain speaks, the CNN squiggle flat-lines like Dick Cheney’s heart.
UPDATE (6:18):
McCain: “I know how to save billions of dollars in defense spending”… but I’m not going to tell you. Shhh.
UPDATE (6:20):
McCain brings up the “overhead projector” bullshit again, even after it has been thoroughly debunked. Has he no shame? (Don’t answer… it was a rhetorical question.)
UPDATE (6:25):
Obama: “Even FOX News disputes it.” Big laugh here at the Ale House but little response from the squiggly line. Speaking of which, there have been huge disparities between the men and the women in the CNN squiggly line. Lee’s theory is that the men in the squiggly line group are drunk. Could be.
UPDATE (6:29):
This is, by the way, a crappy, uninformative debate, and I don’t think either candidate is doing particularly well. But then Obama doesn’t have to do particularly well, he just needs to do well enough.
UPDATE (6:31):
McCain: “Joe the Plumber”…!!!
UPDATE (6:33):
Obama said “tit”…! (Of course, he also said “tat”, but I’m sure there’s an FCC fine in there somewhere.)
UPDATE (6:40):
Apparently, due to a glitch, comments have been off. Oops. Fixed it.
UPDATE (6:41):
The candidates have been asked about their running mates. Lee asks whether it’s too late for McCain to dump Palin in favor of Joe the Plumber.
UPDATE (6:42):
Obama: Joe Biden “fights for the little guy.” How many electoral votes does Munchkinland have?
UPDATE (6:45):
McCain: Palin “understands the needs of special needs families.” And nothing meets the special needs of a Downs baby like running for Vice President. I’m just sayin’.
UPDATE (6:47):
McCain thinks we can build 45 new nuclear power plants “right away.” What… are they built out of Legos? Mashed potatoes?
UPDATE (6:56):
The squiggly line (which by the way, represents Ohio voters) really liked Obama talking about Detroit making the fuel efficient cars of the future.)
UPDATE (6:59):
McCain: “Joe the Plumber”…!!!
UPDATE (7:04):
First candidate to promise to buy the Ale House a new wireless router gets my vote.
UPDATE (7:10):
So… McCain says that there should be no litmus test for appointing a Supreme Court justice, and that he would appoint justices purely on their qualifications, but… he doesn’t believe that a judge who has supported Roe v. Wade is qualified to serve on the Supreme Court. Get that? No litmus test. Except, you know, abortion.
UPDATE (7:15):
I’m not so sure that Obama should be going on the defensive so much. He’s spending way too much time defending himself against McCain’s bullshit charges, when he should be either attacking McCain, or talking substantively about issues. But maybe that’s just me.
UPDATE (7:18):
Turns out, the plumbers union was the first national union to endorse Barack Obama. Got that Joe?
UPDATE (7:20):
McCain wants to “find bad teachers another line of work.” You know, like plumbing.
UPDATE (7:25):
I think Obama started slow, but once again is closing stronger than McCain, providing more specificity, and being more considerably more coherent, whereas McCain stays mostly on the attack. Perhaps this debate might be considered more of a draw than the previous two, but that’s just not good enough for McCain, who not only needs to win over undecided voters, he needs to win over some soft Obama voters as well.
UPDATE (7:29):
McCain’s closing statement: “America needs a new direction. We cannot continue doing what we’ve been doing for the past eight years.” And so, that means we should elect a Republican?
UPDATE (7:31):
Obama’s closing statement. He also doesn’t think we can afford to follow the same failed policies of the past 8 years. So they agree on something. More substantive, policy oriented closing, and that pleased the squiggly lines, especially the women.
GOLDY’S WRAP UP:
Not as sucky as the second debate, but not as good as the first one, and there’s no way McCain did what he desperately needed to do to change the dynamic of this race. We’ll wait for the insta-polls to figure out who won, but it doesn’t really matter anymore, does it. Stick a fork in it, this race is done.
Oh… and I loved David Gergen’s comment about McCain… it looked like “an exercise in anger management.”
McCain flat lined when the palling around with terrorists came up. He went after him, but got no traction on the squiggly lines
Dumbass!!
On Joe Biden the lines went up, up, up.
Women are not buying McSame’s Palin argument. Men, however are. I guess men are stupid.
He is pulling out the disabled kids card. He said nothing. Flat line.
I’m watching the CNN feed online. The red, yellow, and blue squigglies represent Rep, Ind, and Dem, respectively. It seems to me that the Reps have been favorable to McCain… as well as to Obama—even more than the Dems!
Maybe the Dems are just bored by now, because they’ve heard it all?
And the Reps are just excited about anyone getting jiggy about anything… anything at all. Except taxes.
@0 Goldy [UPDATE (6:45)]:
Neocons, by definition, are “special needs”…
UPDATE (6:12):
Anybody who had “Joe the Plumber” on their debate bingo card has already one.
I think you meant to say “won”, not “one”, there Ein(gold)stein
On health care: Obama’s plan topped out on the all knowing lines. McSwindle’s, not so much.
Obama has him here. Big time.
McSame keeps blinking, SNL will make use of that this sat
The smart ass ” JOE THE PLUMBER, you’re rich” line just bombed.
Snark does not work here. He is not presidential. Dumbass.
Boy, I hope Joe the Plumber remains anonymous.
McCain has ruined him.
@ 8 I am thinking it must be morse code for “My Meds are no longer working! Send Help!”
McCain just called him Sen McGovern. Quick, get Roosevelt on the phone!
Yeah, I think McSame is sending out code or has morphed into “Teddy Ruxpin”
Abortion and supreme court has lines going up for Obama. Particularly when he mentioned a woman’s right to choose and how it is a personal decision.
And McCains eyes… they keep going back and forth like he is watching a tennis match…
They need to get a new geriatric doctor for him.
Teresa just threw a slipper at my flat screen. If it had broke McSame was getting the bill.
No litmus test her ass, she said.
Rick @6,
Ohmigod! A typo! That’s it, you can dismiss everything I’ve ever written because of a typo in a live blog.
I will hand it to McCain, he has listened to his base and is bringing out all the disproven wingnut talking points.
It is just too bad for him, that they sound just like disproven wingnut talking points. They will delight the ignorant wingnuts, and anger the other 70% of America.
Every time McCain gets snarky, the lines dip down. They should have those he could see them.
I am still hoping he snaps and slugs Obama. My neighbor would be outside later during our post debate debate telling me how Obama deserved it.
This is funny!
http://officeofstrategicinfluence.com/blog2/102
Fiscal Conservative my ass!
LMAO @ Little Rickie Dumbass!
Spelling mistakes is all you have left.
You’re goin’ down Little Rickie Dumbass…
Look at those lines for education for Obama, they were trying to break through the top of the scale.
For McCain that is not the case.
On the issues of the day, Obama held his place.
Debate a draw. Obama wins due to that.
@ 16 McCain tried to have it both ways.
No Litmus test, just weight them on their qualifications.
And then he said that Roe v Wade would of course be part of their qualifications.
… hmmm… smells litmussy to me!
@0 Goldy [UPDATE (7:15)]:
He’s ahead in the polls and this is probably his last opportunity to separate fact from fiction for undecided voters who don’t pay attention to anything except for one, maybe two presidential “debates” before casting their vote.
I’ll place my bet on it not so bad of a strategy… maybe.
McSame has flat-lined for sure in this debates.
All he’s got left is smears..
And oh boy will there be a lot of those these next couple of weeks..
Why does McCain keep confusing Downs Syndrome with Autism?
Oh yeah! He is an addled old man!
… and McCain feels the only good baby is one barbecued, and slathered in sauce.
McCain is not getting this white man’s vote. He is not getting the woman’s vote next to me either.
Still seems like McSame was a talking points robot.
McCain’s campaign motto this year really should have been:
McCain, fingernails on a blackboard.
Or,
McCain, as desirable as your yearly prostate checkup.
Or maybe,
McCain, an example of a pathetic asshat sitting in congress for thirty years sucking off the taxpayers.
Obama was on the defensive this entire debate and alot of stuff he didn’t want to have brought up was- Advantage: McCain.
Kudos to Bob S. for letting the candidates kind of take the debate off the beaten path and actually address charges made by both camps during this campaign- Advantage: McCain.
Now, back to Goldy’s regularly scheduled barnyard buffoonery. Look for “Joe the plumber” to be on Letterman this Saturday night.
Goldy- a bit too early on your conclusions.
In the closing, McCain fumbled his way through his close, Barack was much stronger. mcCain flat lined entirely until his close about mcCains’and service, Barack got a big lift on the second half of his comments.
Barack may have been more defensive, throughout but he sparred effectively.
After a good start tonight, McC went mad and flat, Barack got stronger.
Barack may have just sparred his way through it, but thats all he needed to do. I think he won at the end, but either way he did well enough.
BTW, Joe the plumber passed out an hour ago, after he drank his Joe the six pack.
Watched the debate on CNN, for the squiggly lines, but switched to MSNBC just to hear Pat Buchanan’s hilarious delusionary commentary.
He is not disappointing me!
“Obama was on the defensive this entire debate and alot of stuff he didn’t want to have brought up was- Advantage: McCain.”
Another clown’s tortured existence in a parallel universe.
McCain had backed himself into a corner about bringing up ACORN and “what’s his name from the underground in the 60’s”
Obama batted it back in McCain’s face.
Advantage Obama.
McCain came in a loser and left defeated.
Joe the Plumber is a breath of fresh air compared to all Ayers/ACORN ALL THE FREAKING TIME!
“Joe the plumber” to be on Letterman this Saturday night.
Uhhh.. Little Ricky Dumbass, Letterman isn’t on Saturday night.
Saturday Night Live is…
I’ve named you well.
I didn’t watch the debate. My health insurance only covers 12 visits to a therapist a year. I’m pretty sure I’d need more than that if I’d watched it.
From what I read of Goldy’s live-blogging it sounds like Lee won!
Genius!
Rick,
Based on polling, even the conservatives have Obama up by 128 electoral votes.
Advantage: Obama.
Katie Couric is interviewing Governor Pawlenty (R-MN) in a post-debate web-only webcast. Even Pawlenty can’t bring himself to toe the neocon party lie (yes, that’s “lie”, not “line”), when referring to Obama’s:
His words, not mine… Even politicians have a limit to the lies they’re willing to reach to.
Neocons? No limit.
@5 McPalin may “understand” special needs, but she doesn’t believe in funding them. Just ask Alaska’s special needs families — they’ll tell yo Palin has not supported funding for programs their kids need and deserve. They’re frustrated with her, because she led them to beleive she would.
“Special Needs”
That is what being a Republican is now all about. Financial Institutions, and Billionaires have “Special Needs” that require making insane profits in good times, and public bailouts when they soil their diapers.
It is time to put them on the short bus, and give then the education they need.
Holiday in Cambodia comes to mind.
@41
Wait till you see what Dino does to those budgets (and reporting requirements for all the state funded companies that work with DD folks) if he gets in.
Pat Buchanan is ashen gray. He must have an undertaker doing his makeup.
And even after he makes a dramatic statement like “Without this economic crash McCain and Pslin would win this election!” he ends up just laughing his ass off at his own statement.
Magic.
@41. Roger Rabbit:
I don’t think Palin does “understand” special needs at all (unless we’re talking about neocon and billionaire special needs, of course). Trig was born into her family only this year.
Barring the ability to see into the future (or to see Russia from her house), she has no first-hand knowledge of “special needs”. Other than her very own.
And she gets her personal funding from the people who fund the government. And the oil industry. And other lobbyists.
“Health”!
Oh, and as hilarious as Buchanan is… let it finally be said… again… Chris Mathews is a complete idiot.
When he chose the idiot package he ordered every option available.
Why is this moron given TV time?
Fox news says: It was a good night for Obama!
http://www.dailykos.com/storyo.....604/631988
Obama sounded like a leader, mccain seemed old and cranky.
@23 Wonder if Senator McCain (yes, kiddies, he will be a senator next year) will insist on President Obama’s judicial nominees getting a straight up-or-down vote? If so, we don’t need to win 60 seats in the Senate to break GOP filibusters, because he’ll be our 60th vote.
@31 “In the closing, McCain fumbled his way through his close, Barack was much stronger. mcCain flat lined entirely until his close about mcCains’and service, Barack got a big lift on the second half of his comments.”
The funny thing is, two-thirds of the “service to country” that McCain took credit for was his dad’s and granddad’s — no wonder he’s against inheritance taxes!
@45 You only need to be a parent of a special needs child for one day to understand special needs, so yes, I do give her that.
@49 I thought McCain decisively lost the debate because he came across as a snide, angry, little man.
Did anyone else notice McCain slipping on the official party line on the Gulf War? He said it was about oil at the beginning of the debate.
How Undecideds Score Tonight’s Debate
“CBS has 55 percent of uncommitted viewers preferring Obama versus 22 percent for McCain. CNN has a 58-31 split. More than half of FOX’s undecided focus group broke for the Democrat.”
(Source: Newsweek; quoted under fair use)
Sorry “Joe the Plumber” the average American doesn’t even earn close to $250,000 in a year…. and those that do earn that can afford to pay extra in taxes…. With welfare not really helping but enabling those who are on it to stay poor, those of us who “dont qualify ( making $8 and hour or more)” suffer endlessly. I used welfare years ago to help with my situation…now, even when on unemployment, I don’t qualify because it averaged out to $8.15 an hour and that was too much for them to help my family. Not saying that the taxes will help with welfare but C’MON boo hoo I make $250,000 in a year and I dont want any more taxes… Kiss my A**, these taxes are going to help us people who do fall between the cracks, those of us who do try to do the right thing and get nailed for it because we are honest, hardworking and have had to become self sufficient. Deal with it… eat that extra tax you’ll have to pay and think of it as helping your fellow Americans who don’t or cant make that much in a year. Yea Obama’s plan calls for more taxes but it’s also on those who can afford to pay for it… it also calls for a lot of tax breaks for those who keep workers here working,& to help with the basics in this country which I think most politicians forgot about and just worried about the bottom line…. Forget the bottom line… John Q. Public in this country IS the bottom line…
I’ve had to wrestle with my own sleep problems over the years, and McCain’s eye-blinking and bobbing and weaving remind me of myself trying to stay awake and focused in a meeting when I’ve been way, way behind on sleep. Can’t help but wonder if he has sleep apnea (which certainly wouldn’t be unusual for someone his age) or if he was showing the effects of pulling an overzealous all-nighter preparing for the thing. If it was the latter, the fact that he didn’t come up with a single new thought is a little dismaying.
All things considered, if I might be permitted an unpardonable heresy, when it was over I felt at least reassured that whichever of these guys wins, we’ll have a hell of a lot better than we’ve had for the last eight sorry, disastrous years.
Assuming mccain lives his 4 years, I would have to agree. I would change my opinion if palin were president.
Watch for a send-up of Joe the Plumber and McCain on the next SNL, which is where they both belong. Let’s not shed any tears over Joe and his higher taxes. He’ll be sitting pretty throughout the recession. Hiring a plumber isn’t a discretionary expenditure. If you need one, you’ll hire one regardless of what the economy’s doing. And for all his whining about being penalized for trying to reach the American Dream, Joe’s no poster boy for those who are trying to do the same. Appearing on a talk show this morning, Joe said that when he asked Obama about his taxes, Obama “tap danced” around the issue “like Sammy Davis Jr.” Apparently he thinks an African-American who aspires to the office of the presidency is as laughable as a dancing ape. He may not even be aware that his remark was racist, which is the most frightening part of this sorry episode.
AAAHHH Jill the things we miss when watching a different channel… then Joe plumber is definitely not John Q. Public…tho I know racism still exists…I don’t feel its tolerated like it used to be… and yes showed his own ignorance…. Hell McCains theme song should be dance, dance dance, dancing machine watch him get down watch him get down…LOL maybe that one would survive the election since all the others are being pulled by the performers…HAHAHHAA
The Republicans have been using “small business” as a poster child for decades to justify their systematic selling out of the “American dream” to give big handouts to mega-corporations and blue-blooded bazillionaires.
So far, all the conclusions by all the pundits are
totally based upon POLLS. Not a single actual vote
has been cast yet. Obama supporters gush at how
well their man has done in the debates, which proves
once again that Obama is a good debater and a good
speaker. It doesn’t say anything about his character,
judgement, or what kind of a leader he would be.
I still would rather trust a man who would not sell out
his fellow prisoners, even during 5 years of torture,
than to trust a man who betrayed a 20 year friendship,
for personal ambition. And … regarding this election,
until people actually vote … it ain’t over till it’s over!
Howard?
Not quite. The AP reports that over a half-million people in Georgia have already cast their ballots. Large numbers for early voters from other states are coming in as well.
Lots of folks have already voted. (Not me, but I’m old-fashioned, and prefer to actually go to my polling place and vote on election day, especially as this may be the last election that folks here in Pierce County can do that.)
So, at least some of that polling data comes from people that have actually voted.
Still, your basic point seems to be that the election isn’t over, and that the polls and debates, interesting as they may be, do not determine the winner of the election. True enough.
As to your preference. While some of our right wingers here wouldn’t vote for Jesus himself if He ran as a Democrat, I’ll presume that your reasons are as you have stated.
I’m not sure where the “betrayed a 20 year friendship for personal ambition” comes from (if you’re talking about what I think you’re talking about, then you’ve just bought into the right wing spin), but that is neither here nor there.
Vote your conscience, with my blessing and encouragement. I shall do the same.
But… If you’d like to place a small wager on the outcome, I’m an Obama supporter, and I enjoy an occasional Guinness. Shall we say that the winner owes the loser a beer?
Oh, and for anyone that hasn’t already found out. “Joe the Plumber” isn’t in the database of the Ohio Construction Industry Licensing Board, but he is a relative of Charles Keating (of the “Keating Five“).
He does have a considerable interest in tax policy though. It seems that Joe had a lien against him by the Ohio Department of Taxation in January, 2007, for failing to pay $1,183 in property taxes.
Someone over in the McCain camp didn’t bother to vet their poster child. Of course, they didn’t bother to vet their Vice Presidential candidate, either.
Personally, I’m coming to the opinion that Senator McCain might be much smarter than we’re giving him credit for.
I think he has decided that he doesn’t want the job.
it’s kindof sad that McCain and Palin have lowered people’s standards so far that, when they finally manage to put whole sentences together during their debates suddenly they either “tie” or “are really making strides in their campaign” Between the two of them, they’ve got the pity vote locked away for sure. As for their actual competancy….