One of the common refrains from those opposing health care reform is that they don’t want a government bureaucrat getting between them and their doctor, but what do an overwhelming majority of physicians prescribe for fixing our nation’s broken health care system…?
Among all the players in the health care debate, doctors may be the least understood about where they stand on some of the key issues around changing the health care system. Now, a new survey finds some surprising results: A large majority of doctors say there should be a public option.
[…] Most doctors — 63 percent — say they favor giving patients a choice that would include both public and private insurance. That’s the position of President Obama and of many congressional Democrats. In addition, another 10 percent of doctors say they favor a public option only; they’d like to see a single-payer health care system. Together, the two groups add up to 73 percent.
That’s right, nearly three-quarters of doctors support a public option in one form or another, because more than their patients, they know how thoroughly broken the current system is. Support for a public option was “broad and widespread,” occurring at rough equal levels amongst all categories of doctors, and in rural and urban areas alike.
“Whether they lived in southern regions of the United States or traditionally liberal parts of the country,” says Keyhani, “we found that physicians, regardless — whether they were salaried or they were practice owners, regardless of whether they were specialists or primary care providers, regardless of where they lived — the support for the public option was broad and widespread.”
Support was widespread even amongst rank and file members of the AMA, which as an organization has lobbied against a public option. And what explains this surprising consensus?
Keyhani says doctors already have experience with government-run health care, with Medicare. And she says the survey shows that, overall, they like it. “We’ve heard a lot about how the government is standing in between patients and their physician,” Keyhani says. “And what we can see is that physicians support Medicare. So I think physicians have sort of signaled that a public option that’s similar in design to Medicare would be a good way of ensuring patients get the care that they need.”
We trust our doctors to make life and death decisions… to cut us open and reach inside our own bodies to mend or remove our parts. But will we trust our doctors to recommend the best health care reform alternatives?
NOTE:
You can listen to the NPR report below:
More dishonesty from David Goldstein. Just because we don’t feel it necessary to have a complete overhaul of the system in order to achieve “reform” of adding 15 Million more to the rolls of the insured. Besides, what example of government efficiency can Goldy hold up that they’re qualified to do the job? He can’t.
…and he probably wonders why some bloggers are even less trustworthy than the
Obama pom poms waving“news” media when it comes to dispensing facts.The US Military health care system is very well run even Newt agreed on that. Conservatives refuse to take their head out of the sand.
SJ summarizes TrollTalk
@1 Empty suit would like an example of successful government run enterprises:
post office (unless you wanna pay FedEx $25 for first class trash mail?
Manahattan Project
NIH discoveriey efforts
The Internet
Lewis and Clark expedition
Hydro electrification and regional riigation efforts (how it comes we can grwo stuff in deserts like California).
WWII
creation of democracies in Germany and Japan
end of poliuo
end of small pox
GI education bill
VA healthcare system
ending slavery
interstate highway system”air traffic control system
inventions and production of radio and TV
Tang
VLSI (without which there would be no computers!)
eradication of malaria
construction of panama canal
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
There have been a number of articles in the news pointing out how difficult it is for patients in the medicare system to find a doctor.
Now are doctors going to agree with this if they are required to accept patients? Or are they going to be accused of turning down patients just as insurance companies are demonized because they turn down patients?
Empty Suit Obama–
Actually, of the 47 Million uninsured Obama & His Bozo’s keep spewing fails to tell us 10 million are Illegal Aliens, 14 million have access to free Health Care, 8.4 million uninsured Americans are making $50,000 to $74,999, and 9.1 million more are making more than $75,000 who CHOOSE not to purchase Health Insurance.
That leaves 5-6 million who are somehow falling thru the cracks. And they want to spend what, $2 TRILLION and deminish the level of service.
Dumbasses.
It’s all about Big Government and Socialism!
So Goldy quotes a nebullous NPR Poll where they say absolutely nothing about the statistical sampling or polling techniques.
It might as well be a Goldy HorsesAss Poll.
It is MEANINGLESS.
re 4: “There have been a number of articles in the news pointing out how difficult it is for patients in the medicare system to find a doctor.”
Can you give us a link? Trust but verify — and all that.
re 6: “So Goldy quotes a nebullous NPR Poll where they say absolutely nothing about the statistical sampling or polling techniques.”
I didn’t hold my breath, but I did know it was only a matter of time until you impeached the integrity of the poll.
We’ll see what ‘Rasmussen’ has to say tomorrow.
Sample ‘Rasmussen’ question: “Do you want the government to tell you who you can have as a doctor or would you prefer a private insurer who allows you to choose your own?”
Cynical evaluation of the results of such a Rasmussenny poll would have 93%!!!!!! of all Americans prefering private insurance to Kobamacare (in deference to your love affair with that consonant).
Kynical — Do you think lower Ko-pays would move us toward a viable Kompromise — or are we all just kursed to ceep going in the same kirection???
Just heard on Hartmann that the Rs intend to obstruct a vote on health care until after the NJ and VA Gov elections.
Ernie: Good one! Klynically speaking, of course. Hackilishous is Klynical and his friend sKott.
That’s right, nearly three-quarters of doctors support a public option in one form or another, because more than their patients, they know how thoroughly broken the current system is.
————
Yes, well, according to this poll and without specifics.
How many of these same doctors would favor tossing the current fee-based model which results in sky-high costs, and going to a salary-based model? This has been identified as a key problem with our current system, but my guess is the poll numbers would shift dramatically out of pure self-interest, forget fixing health care.
Cynical @6,
If you read the article, you’d see that it was a survey of 2,130 physicians nationwide, a rather large sample, and is published in the New England Journal of Medicine, perhaps the most prominent peer-reviewed medical journal in the world.
But here… here’s a link to the NEJM article itself.
So tell me, Cynical… are you an idiot or a liar? Or just an asshole?
@3 Funny you should mention Tang, but not what that was ancillary to: going to the frikkin’ moon.
Oh, yeah….it’s also worth pointing out that most of that stuff was accomplished by the government when it was run by Democrats.
Slavery’s something of an exception, but these days the party of Lincoln appears to have been taken over by folks who have a hell of a lot more in common with Johnny Reb.
My Dad was a doc, I worked for 11 years in the Dept. of Medicine at the University of Washington and another 11 years at Physio-Control. My wife’s a nurse. We know a hell of a lot of caregivers, and off the top of my head I can’t think of a single one of ’em who doesn’t think our present “system” taken as a whole sucks donkey balls.
When Medicare was relatively new, its byzantine system of rules and its arcane means of applying for reimbursement were difficult for independent providers to deal with, so Dad would sometimes simply charge a patient less and bag the Medicare filing. The last decade or so he was practicing, things had pretty much turned around–filing claims against the private insurers had become the bigger pain in the butt.
OK, that’s what I know, from my own personal experience. You can choose to believe me, or instead you can choose to accept the bullshit Cynical makes up as he sits out in East Bumfuck Montana picking lint out of his navel.
ArtFart-
We have 3 CURRENT docs in our family.
What the Obamunists have failed to investigate or disclose is the number of specialists near retirement who would quit if a Government-controlled system was adopted.
Look there is NO DISAGREEMENT that the current system can be improved. I’ve already suggested Tort Reform, Interstate Competition and weeding out more FRAUD.
But adding 49 MILLION more insureds to a system where good docs are already strained WILL lead to rationing…and good docs retiring.
I guess if we all learn to speak Hindi or other foreign languages…we might not die during the first visit.
@14 Mr Ccccccc
FWIW, the application pool of folks to become docs is easily three to five times the number of available slots and that comes BEFORE we ask why we do not let more foreign grads in.
The only possible shortages of docs are imposed by our decision to restrict supply.
@14 “Tort reform”? Most of what I’ve read seems to indicate that at best it’s going to save a few percent. In a way that’s good news, because it means that for the most part, caregivers, provider institutions and even Big Pharma are doing their jobs without a lot of screw-ups.
“Interstate competition”? Or would that turn out to be more like “interstate collusion”?
Fraud? Where? You mean like the HMO run by Bill Frist’s brother that got nailed for trying to bilk Medicare (probably the private insurers as well) for a ton of money? Or are you applying some conservative ethos that says we’ll be better off if we kick the po’ folks out of the emergency rooms and leave them to rot somewhere?
Frankly, unless we want the embarrassment of a third-world humanitarian crisis and turning the claim that we’re the “richest nation on earth” into a sick joke, we’re stuck providing some sort of care for everyone–even if we let ’em croak somebody’s going to have to bury them to deal with the stench. Where we’re screwing up here is in trying to avoid a dime’s worth of preventive care and winding up paying a dollar to deal with the bigger problems that follow.
Rationing? We already have it–presently governed by whether people have the means to pay for care, at least until they’re at death’s door and Medic One peels them off the pavement and hauls them in as “gomers”. That’s not a very efficient way to do things.
By applying the same interpretation of the data as Goldy used, you could also make this statement:
“That’s right, 90% of doctors support a private option in one form or another”
90% > “nearly three-quarters”…
Therefore, case closed, right?
@14 So, you’re claiming that the Mount Sinai School of Medicine (which conducted the poll) is run by “Obamunists”? Gawd, I can’t imagine what you’d have to say about the Harvard med school, except that they trained Bill Frist.
@18 And 63 percent are in favor of having both…which seems pretty moderate. Nobody’s talking about taking away anyone’s private health insurance….Oh, wait. the private insurers have been doing that to people anyway.
Tort reform as practiced in those wonderful right wing states who have adopted it has NOT resulted in lower health care premiums.
Essentially it means, the doctor screws up, you get a nominal payout and after that you’re on your own.
The interstate competition would mean health insurers relocate to a state with weak consumer protections and would only be regulated by the regulations of the state – bought and paid for by the insurers of course. And the same old story would get even worse – all the healthy people are scooped up and the older, more illness prone crowd would get the shaft only much quicker.
Weeding out more FRAUD to a health insurance company means throwing someone sick off the plan – claim denied, pre-existing condition, medically unnecessary.
16. ArtFart spews:
that’s because you only read the DailyKos and Obama propaganda.
The several % is the cost of lawsuits and insurance.
The BIG COST is the cost of defensive medicine. Docs are now forced to do unnecessary testing and procedures BECAUSE OF LAWSUITS!!
If you Dad is a Doc, get educated. One Brother-in-Law is head of huge pathology lab. He told me tests that used to be 1-2 procedures have turned into 7-8….directed by their Insurance Companies BECAUSE OF LAWSUITS!
Another is an Anestiseologist. Same thing. Unbelievable cost increases BECAUSE OF LAWSUITS.
They both do procedures NOT DONE in other country’s….but are forced on them because of Ambulance Chasers.
Did you look at the Price-Waterhouse-Coopers Study I posted many times AF??
Obviously not.
Here it is AGAIN!
Read it this time, will ya.
The Price-Waterhouse-Coopers Study shows 50% waste in the current system and where it is.
Here are the key findings:
And here is the link–
http://www.pwc.com/us/en/healt.....cess.jhtml
@20 “63 percent are in favor of having both…which seems pretty moderate. ”
I agree. “moderate” is certainly a more accurate descriptor than “overwhelming majority” used above. And I think that you can agree that data can be cut both ways. That’s all I was trying to show: data can be manipulated.
And the original post was cutting the data a certain way to show overwhelming support for a certain viewpoint. I’m just pointing out how the interpreted data that supported the entire premise of this topic is questionable if not flat-out wrong…
This all seems vaguely familiar …
@24–
Good one!
@16 Frankly, unless we want the embarrassment of a third-world humanitarian crisis and turning the claim that we’re the “richest nation on earth” into a sick joke
But it already is a sick joke. We’re drowning in deficits and debt through 2019 and beyond:
http://www.cbo.gov/publication.....health.cfm
Klynical (Dumbass) says:
Again, these figures from an idiot copied from other idiots are so wrong and stupid. the original 47 million was calculated in 2006 by the US census for Americnas (not illegal aliens)
the 14 million number is just stupid….yes, they can go to Emergency rooms, so what? We still pay for them becuase they can’t afford health care.
the 50-75K is for family income….at an average of 14K a year many families can’t afford health care coverage if they don’t get it work.
Then there are the many who have inadequate coverage…remember that the majority of bankruptcies in this country is due to health problems and the majority of those health related bankruptcies are for people who have health insurance!
Further stupidity from Klynical:
1. Nebulous (Dumbasses can’t spell!)
2. The poll was not conducted by NPR, they reported on it. It is from the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation.
3. Doctors think that private insurance companies are even worse than the government.
4. Read the original poll moron to get info on the methodology (not that you would know squat about that).
Conclusion: Klynical is too stupid to even understand the health care debate.
@24: 73% of doctors support either government only or government option…that is damn strong support.
That is more support than the ignorant fools in the general public who listen to idiots rave about death panels and rationed care.
That is support from the people who actuall know and do health care…who experience the private health care mess every day.
@22: Dear Moron Klynical
I already linked to the definitive study that showed that tort reform will yield about a 1% savings. Can’t you read?
@18 You could say that, but you would be totally misinterpreting the data.
but then that is what you want to do….misinterpret the data and come to your own false conclusion.
Puddy knows what the messiah said… 30 million Americans.
@7 Again, these figures from an idiot copied from other idiots are so wrong and stupid. the original 47 million was calculated in 2006 by the US census for Americnas (not illegal aliens)
———-
What stats do you have?
@31
Well good for you Uncle Tom. Keep up the sarcasm, ignore the substance.
re 22: ‘Tort Reform’? Sure. Why not?
The main reason people have to sue doctors is because a mistake has been made and now they have long-term medical bills that they cannot afford.
If you have universal health care, the need for suing is non-existent. You get the medical care you need.
Not only that, but doctor’s would not have to buy their outrageously expensive insurance.
That’s what the insurers are REALLY scared of.
re 33: The fictional Uncle Tom is actually a metaphorical Christ figure.
We should not dignify the Puddwaxxer with such a moniker.
@33 I hope progressives can do better than calling a black man “Uncle Tom”.
@31 Ah…Mr. Shuck-And-Jive shows up to give Klynical a little backup.
X’ad–
Yet another Progressive Racist..
to join the klub with YLB, steve and the rest.
I see steve’s OUTRAGE!
Wow Steve…could you get any angrier?
What would your pretend Black Friend who died say?? Imagine his outrage.
Puddy has thick skin…unlike you Heathen pricks….who whine at the slightest politically incorrect utterance.
Hey ArtFart–
I see your racist underpinnings allow you to not only ignore X’ad’s remark…but make one of your own.
What makes it worse for the typical citizen at the bottom of the economic food chain is that if he does have some low-paying, menial job, not only do the assholes who employ him not provide medical coverage, but if he wants to take time off to go pursue what low-cost or free care might be available, they’ll dock his pay and make it abundantly clear that they might replace him with whoever happens by before he gets back.
Hey ArtFart–
Here is a little education for you–
It’s a SLAVE based comment you numbskull.
Where is your apology??
The gig I had for the majority of the time I worked at the UW was in the Department of Cardiology, in the drive to “eliminate coronary heart disease”. We didn’t do that, but we established beyond any doubt that eating the right foods in less quantity, exercising regularly and not smoking would do a damned good job of preventing coronary arterey disease. While we were doing that, Corporate America was busily brainwashing everyone to gorge themselves on greasy fast food and smoke cigarettes, and inventing ways to infiltrate the food supply with delightful new nasties like high-fructose corn syrup and ground beef laced with hormones and poop.
@41 No apology offered. Puddy has co-opted the technique for an entirely different and reprehensible purpose–and if he’s not doing it for his corporate “masters”, then he’s just plain stupid.
Not that’s exactly news to anyone here…except maybe him.
@38 “What would your pretend Black Friend who died say??”
I’m pretty sure he’d say that Mr. Klynical is a KLOWN who fucks goats.
@41 The KLOWN sez to AF: “Where is your apology??”
Where’s yours?
@ 7 Ernie ask for a link. Well here ya be.
I know the NY Times is questionable to a lot of people, but some of us still use it as a source.
“Many people, just as they become eligible for Medicare, discover that the insurance rug has been pulled out from under them. Some doctors — often internists but also gastroenterologists, gynecologists, psychiatrists and other specialists — are no longer accepting Medicare, either because they have opted out of the insurance system or they are not accepting new patients with Medicare coverage. The doctors’ reasons: reimbursement rates are too low and paperwork too much of a hassle.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04.....ealth.html
Mr. Klynical posts racist jokes and then accuses everybody on the left of being a racist. You all follow that now, don’t you?
Here’s a GAO study on malpractice insurance. I’ll suggest yout take a look at the rates for Florida and then Minnesota. Quite a difference and we need to ask why. Those are just a short way in.
http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d03702.pdf
@30 “but then that is what you want to do….misinterpret the data and come to your own false conclusion.”
Please explain to me how interpreting the data the *exact* same way but using the private option as the additive variable is not a valid interpretation but using the public option is.
If we’re are only looking at data, the additive conclusion shouldn’t only apply to the public option.
Unless… Unless… Looking at the data that way was only done to improve the perception of the public option results, but wasn’t really a valid interpretation? Maybe it was all just an enhancement to change perception? Maybe?
By applying the same interpretation of the data as Goldy used, you could also make this statement:
“That’s right, 90% of doctors support a private option in one form or another”
FWIW, I support a Private and Public option. I just don’t like the public option in the current bill… (and I don’t like people adding apples and oranges)
Mr.Cynical
I would try to summarize but it seems as if he has exploded in a big bang of primal matter.
One thing he seems very upset about is tort reform because … well because he heard from his brother in law or cousin that lots of tests in path labs occur because of tort reform. NOW that is impressive.
Of course the research that has defned several hundred cytokines, immune cell types, circulating stem cells, etc etc has nothing to do with these costs … nothing at all!
Seriously, there is no great reason NOT to have tort reform. Like our effed up healthcares system our legal system sis a mess too.
Of course this has almost nothing to do with the real costs our healthcare is so expensive:
1. cost shifting … when you do not pay for medical costs but mandate that the care be given somebody pays. That means instead of paying the actual $100 cost of a test done on some uninsured person, a hospital pays that real cost PLUS at least 30% more in legal and accounting costs to find ways of hiding the $100 in someone else’s bill. The the insurance comp discovers they are being overcharged so we hire more accountants to do more shifting.
2. High end medicine and terminal care. 20% or more of all healthcare costs go for terminal care. An additional huge amount goes to pay fopr the fact that we live longer and need more care as we get older. Many of therapies developed in the USA for this time in life are very expensive. So next time your grmaps neds a kidney translant remember we di more of those and are better at it than any other country in the world .. and we pay for that.
OR .. we could have death panels .. oops most fo us laready do in our insurance plans that decide, based on age, what therapies they will pay for and will not.
3. Alternative Medicine … a lot of the stuff we pay for does not work .. whether it is Lee’s Cure All M&Ms, or acupuncture. BUT, all this stuff costs money and increases costs when real disease is left untreated.
4. Cost of Skilled Labor …a wet behind the ears attorney gets 300 to 500/hr. An physician with a lot more training and even an RN with the same number of years, usually does not get that much BUT there is an irreducible minimum of hands-on time in medicine. You wanna pay a shyster $500/hr .. then shouldn’t nurses and quacks get that too? BUT, many folks do not ever have any real need of a shyster, almost everyone needs docs.
Add to this that docs have $300,00 to $500,000 in debts … what do you think happens.
6. Admin Costs .. Mr. C, while oyu worry about your cuz the pathologist .. ask him about the admin overhead in his hospital. Our costs of admin for healthcare is .. well we are number one by a long shot. Unless, of course, you get your care fomr the guvmint where most fo that shit don’ happen.
Bootm line: We docs know the system is broken, we want to do our jobs. ,, that is why polls and the AMA have all voted for reform.
BUT Mr. C’s cuz knows better!
re 38: “Puddy has thick skin…unlike you Heathen pricks….who whine at the slightest politically incorrect utterance.”
You are so full of crap. Puddy weeps and whines at the slightest provocation. Even if you call him something that could better be described as inane rather than racist: like Lionel or Br’er Rabbit.
Apparently, some people can’t figure out what “efficiently” means, which is the word I used.
A Wiki synopsis:
and then theres another re: reform of the current MHS with a link below.
http://www.eric.ed.gov/ERICWeb.....o=ED294127
Remember also the military is full of younger and more physically healthy persons than the average American civilian.
And cynical wonders why he is a universal object of derision here. Wow.
Ouch.
Good thing you’re a democrat, otherwise you couldn’t get away with that.
I’m sure that doctors support some kind of reform as the current system is not the best (nor the worst) yet can’t believe that the majority support a public option. Both my parents are on Medicare and choose to supplement it with additional policies as the Medicare system sucks. Both parents are in reasonable shape, no major medical problems, but have the basic problem of even going to the doctor of their choice on basic Medicare. I still find it hard to believe that a public option is ideal given that 1) health care is available to all right now, 2) gov’t can’t run any program efficiently.
And if this is so urgently needed, why does it not go into effect in 2013 (or 12 – I’ve heard both dates)?
Stumpy@35&50 is the 29th sockpuppet name used by headless lucy… so headless how would you know about Puddy whining unless, of course, you are headless lucy.
What a fool. Good try on “the messiah” quote fool. Here it is again…
Now headless tell Puddy why he uses it again fool?
X’ad,
Thanks for the uncle tom call. That comment proves the photons are not moving today. Keep fiber in your “diet” moron. Read #55 so you can refamiliarize yourself why Puddy calls the preznit “the messiah”. It’s a New Testament thing (Chris Matthews). So if Chris calls him that he’s a racist per your definition. Thanks for the clarification ya idiot. I have other quotes for later use still in the PuddyHopper.
Hey Steve, they are showing their true colors calling Puddy an uncle tom. Hey it’s all good baby. It proves what Puddy has been saying all along about “progressives” in the Democratic party. Very telling, especially about the HA Libtardo progressives on this blog.
Puddy calls it quality parenting. Their parents failed miserably!
Oh, and Steve SJ.
Of course doctors approve of the public option. All they do is fill out bogus info and who pays the bill? The U.S. Government that’s who. They can and will bilk the system like its a fucking ATM machine and worse yet, they’ll get away with it. Medved had Dr. Martin L. Gross on his show to elaborate, but knowing the U.S. government and its fucked up accountablity skills (see Barney Fwank and Chris Dodd aiding the housing crisis for exhibit A).
I will be going out and getting one of his several books tomorrow.
In the meantime, if you think Physicians are above bilking the American taxpayer when there is little to no investigating or prosecution, I’ve got some ocean front property in Arizona for sale…
http://www.naturalnews.com/009334.html
It wasn’t a RACIST comment, Pud,despite moron cynical’s demented accusation, it was a historic/social comment. I don’t “DO” racist. Even YOU pay enough attention to know that’s not my style. I can insult you in much more creative ways than that shit.
Pass that on to pissy little marvy. I certainly hope YOU did not pick HIM as your sycophantic little clone, Even YOU deserve better than HIM.
And I don’t get the Matthews reference…..
Yo X’ad,
Anytime you call a black man/woman an uncle tom, it’s denigrating to him/her. Ya see Puddy looks at what libtardos use and then turns it around. David Ehrenstein is a black man. He called “the messiah” a magic negro last year. No one went ballistic on that until Rush had his buddy take the comment and make a song. Butt you see X’ad leftist pinheads thought Rush made it up until Rush directed the liberal MSM to the LA Times. This is why the media has such low marks.
Now back to the topic at hand… doctors supporting the public option. Those are interesting poll numbers from the doctors.
X’ad,
Jesus Christ the REAL Messiah was a New Testament thing. Hence Chris Matthews comment. Does that help?
Apparently you do now dumbass. You’re either extremely young, extremely ignorant or just feel as a liberal you can get away with racist statements like that. Most liberals think this of conservative blacks like Michael Steele and think that throwing oreo cookies at him while he’s speaking on stage isn’t racist.
Anytime you have the Grand Keagle of the KKK sitting in your senate leadership, you have to wonder exactly which political party is the party of racists.
Actually, I don’t have to wonder, I know.
IBD has a different poll that shows that two of every three practicing physicians oppose the medical overhaul plan, and hundreds of thousands would think about shutting down their practices or retiring early if it were adopted. The poll contradicts the claims of not only the WH, but also doctors’ own lobby — the AMA — both of which suggest the medical profession is behind the proposed overhaul.
http://www.investors.com/NewsA.....?id=506199
@61
@58 It wasn’t a RACIST comment, Pud,despite moron cynical’s demented accusation, it was a historic/social comment. I don’t “DO” racist.
Wow.
A “historic/social” comment? I don’t “DO” racist? That’s pretty lame backpedaling, even by HA standards.
You owe Puddy AND HA an apology.
Do the right thing, X’ad. Like Steve said, this isn’t what progressives stand for.
@ 63 Ku KluX’ad Klan – Your intentions are clear when labeling someone of color an “uncle tom”. If nothing else, your ignorant ass learned something today.
I think we’ve just renamed you. Congrats, you’ve earned it.
@61
Fuck you airhead, and don’t presume to tell me what my intentions are. You embarrass yourself enough in here.
It’s hard to imagine having more contempt for you than I already do, but you’re working on it.
Puddy, If I offended you I apologize.
@64
And fuck you, Sue, I don’t presume to be instructed by what progressives stand for by you or anyone else. I was unaware that YOU set the standards for HA.
You sound like cynical.
@ 67~ That’ wasn’t so tough now was it? Wonder if you would have done it if no one piped up and called your ignorant ass out?
I say no, you wouldn’t have.
You just gave us a glimpse into the hypocritical world of “progressives”.
I think Mr. Cynical will approve of your new name…
Good for you, puspuddle. Take a long look and tell us more about “hypocrisy”, you moron.
@67
You did the right thing – you should be proud of yourself. Everyone should eat a little crow once in while, and you just had a full course meal.
I disagree with Puddy and Cynical most of the time, though they mostly have their way on HA because of the caliber of the competition, sorry to say.
I like it that you are still thinking of me honeybunch.
Every time I am sitting on the toilet, love
You DO have a strange way of asking for a date, but if you’re willing to come all the way up from LA…..
@51 “Remember also the military is full of younger and more physically healthy persons than the average American civilian.”
Yeah, but the average American civilian isn’t subject to being sent to the other side of the world and brought back with pieces shot off and fucked up in the head.
If it wasn’t a racist comment and it wasn’t your intention why did you apologize to someone you continuously insult?
Knowing that you are thinking of me now makes me feel dirty.
I better go take a shower.
What, and have steve call me a goatfucker?
I wasn’t planning on being on the receiving end, as it were, and cynical DOES speak highly of you.
@ Marvin Moron
And, Dr. Einstein, if you could READ you’d see that “puspuddle” was a name directed at ESO for the preceding message, and had NOTHING to do with Puddy.
Idiot.
I do hope you can find somebody to help you survive after your mama is gone. Poor thing, she certainly deserves a rest.
That’s assuming all those rumors about you and her are false…..
Considering your posting here tonight, I’m not sure your plans are worth crap.
I have to drop by the cesspool to see you, sweetheart. You get a little class from your surroundings.
God knows you need it.
But I’m sure everyone else is bored by your attractions, so I think I’d better go….
@71 Klynical has his way here….are you on drugs Ms. sue?
We regularly take down the idiot Klynical and almost everyone ignores Puddy because he argues like a child and has been shown to not understand his own postings that bqsically regurgitate from rightwingnut websites. Puddy has no credibility and no ability to form a logical argument.
Oh, and by the way Klynical….just because someone makes over 75K and can afford health insurance doesn’t mean they can get it.
You lack of logic and skin deep depth fails to account for pre-existing conditions….which is one of the major drivers of health care reform.
But I would not expect someone of your limited intelligence to remember that.
Once again, you have refuted your own arguments and failed to refute the arguments I have put up:
1. We currently spend almost twice per person or per GDP on health care as the next leading nation.
2. We get health care that is 37th in the world for all that we spend. Every other major industrialized country is whipping our sorry butts in health care and we are on par with Slovenia.
3. Health insurance companies currently use over 20% of their revenue for overhead and profit…Medicare uses under 3%.
4. In 2006 there were 47 milion Americans uninsured…there are many more now due to the Bush recession (unemployment has gone from 5 to 10% and most Americans get HI from their jobs).
5. Most bankruptcies in the US are due to health problems. This is more than any other country.
Most of the health bankruptcies are due to people who HAVE insurance. So the world’s most expensive medical system is not protecting people from going broke and the insurance system doesn’t work even for those who have insurance.
6. Most people say they are satisfied with their insurance. That is because most people are healthy. If you ask the people who are actually in health trouble, it turns out most of them are not happy with their insurance.
7. Most doctors are not happy with the current system either. And doctors know health care…unlike idiot republicans who regurgitate the same old “socialist” crap.
Oh, and nola @48: Please don’t be stupid. Read the actual questions asked in the survey.
Would you favor a public option with competing private insurance? 63% yes
Would you favor only a public option? 10% yes
Do you like things as they are? 27%
there is no way a sentient being could interpret this as 90% like private insurance….you are just being stooopid. They asked that question and 27% already answered it.
And saying that 73% favor a public option is legit…63% want competition with the private plans and an additional 10% want only the public single payer option.
@80 Said the pot to the kettle
Marvin, when have you added anything useful to the conversation?
I am waiting for your answer…….
X’ad,
Puddy accepts your apology. That was really nice to see the photons flying down the fiber. Puddy will gladly spar with you.
Sue,
How progressive of you. There are some real people Puddy enjoys sparring with while there are bottom feeders which you acknowledge by your comment. Maybe you should call out the bottom feeders AKA those who are not “the caliber of the competition”. Puddy would like to know who these are… in your eyes.
Come on Sue… name them for Puddy. Please?
Useful enough that YOU replied.
I know many people who make over $75K and they choose not to buy insurance because they 1) don’t think they need it or 2) work for the construction industry and are covered under worker’s compensation.
And those countries pay much higher taxes for it without the rewards.
I thought Obama said in his speech last week that is was 30M. Which number is it this week?
Please provide link. My sis works for bankruptcy attorney in Bellevue and the majority of bankruptcies are a result of overspending and people not saving for a rainy day.
As I have stated, both my parents are on Medicare and purchased additional policies to see the doctor of their preference. And they are both relatively healthy, with no major diseases. Those I know with major diseases have an employer-provided plan that serves them well.
Read this: http://www.investors.com/NewsA.....?id=506199
@83
As an example of insurance idiocy, I make enough money and I have Federal Blue Cross, the fancy stuff everyone in Congress is also entitled to (or its federal equivalent) and I had to fight for months to get surgery covered HERE, and they are refusing to pay for a hospital bill in SE Asia from a hospital they accredit, because their emergency authorization team was off for 4 days at Memorial Day, (in violation of their stated policy), and they could not get a diagnosis from the attending physician over there.
So I have to produce a copy,(All other paperwork is done). But Philippine laws require me to get it in person. And I will be in the US until after the deadline for the claim.
So, of course, they win by default, because, although I will be entitled to a hearing, it will be here after I have moved there, and I must be here in person.
But I’m sure it’s just an unfortunate accident and there’s no intent to avoid paying the claim!
Snort.
If by Americans you mean American citizens, you are of course lying, but no surprise there.
Which makes the source you
postedcopy and pasted from completely without credibility- See Bullshit spoon-fed agenda pushing web site like Kos or Huffp (like HA , but actually generate internet traffic).To quote the great Willy Wonka, “you get nothing, you lose!… Good day, Sir!”
Speaking of queefs, former useless president Jimmy Carter gets the goat this week. Given his batshit crazy mental illness and “Deliverance” style southern upbringing……I highly doubt the goat is aware of the weekend that he’s going to experience.
My GOODNESS! ESO HAS A NEW WORD!!!
Queef
WE are SO impressed. With ALL he says. MY MY MY.
You know what your credibility here is, don’t you, asswipe?
Or are you too stupid for THAT, too?
Sometimes its just better to say nothing and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. You are a perfect example of that saying,KlulessKluX’adKlown. That word has been around about 25 years that I’m aware of but you wouldn’t know that cuz you were still floating around in your daddy’s ball sac.
@86 Puddy would like to know who these are… in your eyes.
Tsk, tsk, tsk . . . vanity can be vicious. ok, just the first three letters of the names of two, but you’ll have to do the hard spade work:
1. y l b
2. c o r
58. X’ad spews:
X’ad calls a Black man an “Uncle Tom” and this is his response!
What a KLOWN…and a racist.
You need some serious training KLOWN.
Sue@93,
Puddy expected those two. Thanks. Puddy surprised you left ruj off this list. Well it was only two. Puddy was looking for an extensive list like the running list Puddy keeps of HA Leftist Libtardos.
So ylb arschloch, you have another “fan”. How does it feel to know you are held in “high” esteem?
And correctnotright, sue ain’t impressed. Neither are we. You need to bring it.
Hey cnr,
Sue thinks you are stupid. So do we on the right.
We are also the most unhealthy nation. We have too many lardass fat people in the US. We overeat, don’t exercise much. When Puddy traveled to Europe, your favrit place to compare health care stats, most people are thin. This contributes to the
Even the CDC Head said – “As a result, the United States doesn’t even muster a spot in the top 10 on rankings of nations’ health. On one list it’s 26th, the CDC says; on another, 47th.”
“It’s basically about changing the conversation. People are talking about health care reform, but they’re not really talking about health.”
Yet all we hear from you is vacuous hot air when it comes to an individual’s health.
You love to use Slovenia. Well in 2002 Slovenia had 2000 deaths due to heart attack. See Puddy’s answer to #1. Yet based on the US heart attack rates for 2004, just two years later they would have had 55,463 or a level 27.7 times higher correctnotright. See how stupid your analogy is? Well probably not. You are very stupid.
So? When “the messiah” spoke on health care he lied about Alabama. Where were you when this lie was told. Puddy suggests you were cheering “the messiah” on.
“In fact, the Birmingham News reported immediately following the speech that the state’s largest health insurer, the nonprofit Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Alabama, has about a 75% market share. A representative of the company indicated that its “profit” averaged only 0.6% of premiums the past decade, and that its administrative expense ratio is 7% of premiums, the fourth lowest among 39 Blue Cross and Blue Shield plans nationwide.”
Still parroting that number eh? During the speech last week “the messiah” mentioned “30 million Americans are without health care”. So why do you tell lie after lie after lie after lie, when your preznit says something else. Puddy has been told he’s the smartest preznit ever.
Still harping over that Harvard 2005 study. Well when Puddy placed “bankruptcy information causes” into Google, Puddy received a varied group of reasons. Guess what? Medical wasn’t the main reason fool!
So? What does that really mean cnr?
Yeah they are not happy their medical insurance premiums are astronomically high and they have to order over $1Trillion of unnecessary additional tests to keep your buds the trial lawyers off their backs. Yet when you see this data you ignore it. Why do liberals ignore facts? Facts explode the libtardo mind.
Hey cnr, did you see Joe Bastardi’s latest retort on global warming causing the California fires? See his smackdown of Al Gorebasm “the argument is over”?
Would you feel better if the average american spent more $ on their cable bill than healthcare?
If health care is so important, shouldn’t a larger % of ones income be spent on it?
@89: Poor Marvin
I replied to make fun of you and how stupid you are. Being stooopid is not the same as being uselful….I know that is a difficulkt concept to get. Almost as difficult as the concept that we are laughing at you, not with you.
Thanks for being the clown and the fool. Still waiting for soemthing useful…..crickets chirping….
@99: Poor Marvin
Once agian, in your absolute stooopidity you miss the point:
We spend almost twice as much as the next country and get less. That means we have more inefficiency in our currnet broken system than any OTHER system in tthe world.
so the broken system that you defend and prefer is expensive, inefficient and doesn’t work.
Even a third grader could get that…but poor Marvin…not so much. Thanks for being the ignorant clown once again.
Hey correctnotright,
Sue laughs at you too. She’s a lefty.
Cha-ching baby!
@98 Poor Puddy has already proven that he can’t think straight or argue effectively….so what you think really doesn’t matter, you lack the ability to actually think.
If Sue thinks you are intelligent or coherent, then she must be on drugs or have the reasoning capacity of an amoeba.
Gee Puddy, so you agree that the current “health care system” stinks…thanks for arguing my point.
Doctors do not have the time to actually advise patients on diet and exercise. Instead, take a pill. Instead eat a low-fat corporate produced unhealthy snack.
Yeah, that is the system that YOU support Puddy. The MOST expensive health care system in the world with NO incentives for health.
Guess what Puddy – cite evidence to the the contrary on bankruptcies…..from real research…..geee, I don’t see it. Just more Puddy inventing his own facts.
The thing I love about Puddy is that he really is unable to refute anything….he just tries to take irrelevant potshots.
Oh, and I already cited the study that shoiwed that tort “reform” would not change health care costs by more that 1%.
As usual, Puddy – ya got nothin’, you can’t put together a cogent argument and you support the broken system that we currently have.
Just like you tried to justify your false arguments againsst climate change, your pathetic attempts to justify the Iraq invasion and your man-love for Bush.
You don’t make sense and you have no facts, once again. Come back when you grow up.
@92: Prove I am lying.
I already cited the US census data and refuted the idiot cynical who never heard of “preexisting conditions”.
I already cited a study that calculated about 65 million americans lacking health care some time in the last year….and you…..have cited nothing.
Typical windbag who knows nothing. And the rest of my arguments…well, Puddyfool tried to “disprove” them but offered no evidence except his own stupidity.
Could “Sue” mean the return of “Hannah”?
“Hannah” loved those right wing Stupes fantasies.
Ahhh correctnotright twists PuddyFacts just like ylb arschloch. Maybe that’s why Sue lumped you two together. Morons of a feather fly together.
Wrong turdblossom. Puddy said Americans don’t take care of their own health. Get the message straight bozo.
Since when is Puddy responsible for correctnotright’s health? When did this happen fool? Puddy responsible for Puddy’s health and Puddy’s only!
Regarding bankruptcies, Puddy gave correctnotright the search to use. This blog usually chokes on more than three links per post. You are a moron just like Sue said. There are many up-to-date links available for you while you use a four year old study…
Then you notice how correctnotright yells when someone refutes “his truths” but he doesn’t bring URLs? Puddy brought Slovenia URLs to the table. Where’s da beef correctnotright?
Joe Bastardi wiped your sorry ASS all over the place lately. Greenpeace was gonna debate Joe on the California Wildfires but they got wind the data showed the equatorial waters are cooling not heating. Remember how you went off earlier on the NOAA satellite data being off by .105°C because it was showing a cooling trend but the slope was slightly off? You were too damn funny then too.
Well we all know ylb is still ylb arschloch!
Hey moron @ 107
“Sue” is all yours. If she buys your filthy swill, we want nothing to do with her.
Puddy likes to brag about the size of his member (the thing that he Waxxes so often), but HE doesn’t deal in racial stereotypes (like hell).
Waxx also claims that he does not have a wide nose or flappy lips. So, our ‘racism-sensitive’ Waxxster claims to be a black man with a big dick, straight nose, and thin lips.
In fact, his lips are so thin, he can’t even taste barbeque (props to Redd Foxx on that one).
These guys use race as a bludgeon to try to shut up Liberals, but on the 9/12 marches in DC, when these wingnut clowns are marching around with Confederate flags and pictures of PRESIDENT Obama with a bone through his nose, wel, it is just unconscionable to suggest that the wingnuts may be motivated by racism.
In fact, Waxx, fuck off — Uncle Tom.
Oh poor poor ylb arschloch. Sue claims she’s progressive. That’s your cover story ylb arschloch.
See ya fool.
The Prosecution Rests!
Hey Waxx!! Do you eat fishdicks? If you do, then you are a gay fish.
Cynical,
See Puddy called it again on Stumpy. headless one day Puddy will tell you how Puddy immediately knows who you are. It has to do with PuddyRadar short for PuddyFindsStupidProgressivesRadar. Once Puddy locks in Puddy’s target, Puddy figgers out their modus operandi. Yours is soooooo simple to detect.
Regarding my straight nose and thin lips, you can ask Goldy, Darryl, Carl, SeattleJew, Lee, Chris, and many others who attend DL and they can vouch for Puddy’s great looks. Oh and Puddy isn’t a shrinking violet either. Tall and handsome! Butt then again peeps have already vouched for Puddy being at a DL. Puddy went to lunch with GBS twice. Then some have met Mrs Puddy. She’s beautiful. Butt then again in your case follow an ugly child home and see if ugly parents don’t open the door! Redd Foxx humor!
Regarding Redd Foxx – “You Got’s To Wash Yo Ass.” Here’s the video clip again
110 – She can say anything she wants. If she cuddles up to the likes of you and your gang of idiot degenerates, we can do without her.
re 112 — You don’t have to tell mee anything. I just change the names to yank your chain.
Then you get your lips to flappin’ in the 3rd person about ‘how Puddy know dis and dat an’ you dunno how he know it.’ You are such an obvious fucking fake.
You make me sick. You are the one who is racist.
re 112: Mixed race children are usually beautiful even if their parents are ugly. If Janet Reno and Don King had kids — the kids would be beautiful.
Lets discuss these 2 points you made.
In my case, that’s true. Not because they don’t have the time, but because I run daily, watch what I eat, don’t smoke, and drink only a couple times a year. But lets talk about those that don’t take responsibility for their own lives.
If doctors right now don’t have the time, how is adding “47 million” more patients to their caseload going to give them more time to advise patients.
Do you believe that americans are so stupid that they don’t understand what is good/healthy and what isn’t? I don’t have that low of opinion of my fellow americans, I believe people eat bad because it’s easier (compare the time prepping/cooking to driving through in-and-out) and cheaper (a pound of halibut costs more than a “meal” at a fast food place) along with emotional “issues” (self-medicate with food). I believe people know better and still make bad choices, just like it’s no secret smoking is bad but people both to continue and start smoking. Is the obama still smoking? Do you believe if only someone told him smoking was bad he would quit? Isn’t obama smart enough to know smoking is bad?
And free government healthcare is going to be an incentive?
One of the reasons I don’t drive my putt-putt car at 100mph everywhere is the increased cost (to me) of my insurance when I collect tickets. (if only I understood this when I was 18). If my insurance was going to be provided regardless of my actions, what would stop me from safely speeding all over town.
Where does the incentive come if your healthcare is not your financial concern. What can be done to force people into making better choices except taking away their freedom/money?
Should we be forced to show out national identity card when buying junk food to make sure we haven’t exceeded out government allowed amount?
SJ has a weight problem according to his photos on his blog, I’m not sure if it’s medically related or lack of self-control/respect. If it’s not medical, do you think he’s not smart/educated enough to know better? Feel free to explain how the free government healthcare is going to convince someone that already knows better like SJ to make better healthy choices.
re 112: “Regarding my straight nose and thin lips, you can ask Goldy, Darryl, Carl, SeattleJew, Lee, Chris, and many others who attend DL and they can vouch for Puddy’s great looks.”
So, you are saying that a straight nose and non-flappinacious lips are what make you look good? Sounds kind of racist to me.
re 116: You said earlier that it is far less than 47 million new clients.
If what you said is true, then there will not be a lot of people to add.
I wonder how goldy feels about that, the 3 chord guitar playing headless admitting to having multiple sockpuppets.
Do you feel it is hard to be around Puddy 24/7?
I used “47 million” since that’s the number the liberal media uses. Do they still use that number since the obama changed it to 30 million?
If their caseloads are already overburdened, wouldn’t adding even 1 person be reducing time spent on other patients?
Wow an admission@114. September seems to be your month for admissions. Puddy loves how you project yourself onto Puddy.
Sucks to be you fool!
re 121: You never answered my question: Do you eat fishdicks?
Do you get how clever my new moniker is? Did you ever read, Billy Bathegate?
re 112 and 121: You clearly state that it is your non-black features that make you good-looking.
YOU said that. Not me. You poser.
Fool, those are my black features. As they say your mother makes you Jewish, my momma gave me my good looks. My father fave me my height and other physical characteristics. They are what make Puddy black fool.
BTW what is a fish dick? Well you asked so they must be tasty to you.
re 124: “BTW what is a fish dick? Well you asked so they must be tasty to you.”
Heh!! Good answer. It was a running gag on a South Park episode that I saw part of last night. It’s an aural rather than visual joke. You ask the person if they eat fishdicks (mistaking it for fishsticks) and when they say yes, you accuse them of being a gay fish.
Any hoo — Why do you explain about your mummy and daddy and go on to note that that is what makes you a black fool?
That is very curious.
re 124: “As they say your mother makes you Jewish ….”
My mother did no such thing!!
Does this mean that Howard Stern is Italian?
@126,
Apparently history isn’t your forte!
I guess for you people that think being gay is an insult that’s a good one.
Say, can you be around gay people 24/7?
just askin’
re 128: I can’t even be around Korean War Vets 24/7.
Do you eat fishdicks, Marvin? If you do, then you are a gay fish.