Last night’s Drinking Liberally was quite a gathering. A large crowd showed up to meet King County Executive Ron Sims and pepper him with questions on everything from light rail to avian flu… and Sims enthusiastically threw himself into the debate. And Sims wasn’t the only candidate in attendance; both Dwight Pelz and Al Runte distinguished themselves by being the first politicians to actually make a return visit… though when I congratulated Runte on this feat, the retired history professor objected to being labeled a politician.
Sorry Al… that’s the sort of mud people are going to sling at you when you run for office.
One of my favorite moments of the night was an extended and contentious back and forth between Sims and a DL regular on the merits of Southwest Airlines controversial proposal to move to Boeing Field. Personally, I oppose the Southwest deal, mostly for my own selfish, NIMBY reasons. (I live near Boeing Field, and don’t particularly welcome the extra road or air traffic.) But what struck me most was the vigor with which Sims argued his position, not just with a constituent, but with a supporter. Sims already had this guy’s vote, and he knew it. And yet he not only dove into the debate with the passionate abandon of… well… just some guy at DL… he clearly had a great time doing it.
This was not the run-of-the-mill retail politics all candidates must master in order to win — though Sims is good at that sort of stuff too. This was an expression of joy from a man who clearly loves diving into the nitty-gritty of politics and policy.
In case you’re interested, the gist of Sims argument is that the Southwest deal would be good for consumers, while adding jobs to South Seattle. He wants to study the proposal, but would only approve it if noise abatement and traffic concerns can be adequately addressed with no public subsidy… a stance that he repeats in Bruce Ramsey’s column in today’s Seattle Times. Sims also points out the irony of him being attacked by members of the business community for considering such a free market proposal.
“I thought government’s role was to establish infrastructure so that wealth could be made by the private sector,” Sims says. “This is so anti-free enterprise.” He pauses for a moment. “I’m a Democrat,” he says. “For the first time in my political life I’m unabashedly on the free-enterprise side and being criticized by the people who are supposed to be on that side.”
Ramsey for his part, is consistent in his pro-business stance:
The Southwest offer is the real thing. And in keeping his door open to real competition, rivalry and choice, Ron Sims is on the side of the traveling public.
Agreed. While I sure hope Sims eventually shuts that door, it’s hard to blame him for opening it in the first place.
This is so surreal! I am for Sims, a far left Democrat, and against David Irons, a Republican, on this issue.
Irons has a good point, though, in how much Southwest is expecting the county to spend on infrastructure. What was Sims’ answer to that?
Sims answer is consistent… no public subsidy.
I don’t get why Sims is supporting SWA over our local carrier Alaska Airlines. Why is his chief of staff referring to their proposal as a game? Why does Sims care more about union jobs in Texas than jobs here locally?
Plus, which “consumers” is Ron saying this is good for? Certainly not the consumers from the regional airports across the state. They have all come out against this proposal for fear that Alaska Airlines will be weakened and that Horizon won’t be able to continue to fly to their regional airports.
I can’t help but think that Sims support for SWA over Alaska Airlines has more to do with his former campaign manager Tim Hatley being a registered lobbyist for SWA than what’s good for us. He may consider himself a Democrat but he’s acting like a Republican and shunning all the opinions of the other Democratic groups that have come out against this in his quest to return a favor to his former campaign manager.
I never thought I’d ever vote Republican but this just may be the race. Obviously, I am not the only Dem considering a jump with the new King 5 poll showing the race too close to call. And this is King County. If Ron Sims turns the Executive Office over to a Republican in a heavily Democratic county, he’ll be the only one to blame. Not the Democrats that were forced to cross the party line. Every major Democratic group has come out against this and he’s not hearing us. He needs to win our votes too.
How will roads and improved freeway access be paid for? As I recall, Southwest is only paying for the terminal and parking. This isn’t considered a subsidy, but it will require the county to spend money that otherwise would be spent elsewhere.
I’m in support of the expansion, but I want to make sure we have a clear picture of what is being proposed. I’d hate to get half way into it and then have the county say we can’t pay for something, and have to propose some new tax.
key words here are “…with no public subsidy…”
If y’all believe for one second that Southwest (or any airline for that matter, but especially SW)is going to build all the infrastructure needed to support the Boeing Field concept, I’ve got a bridge to sell you. Airlines, esp SW, are notoriously tight with a dollar. (I work solely in the airport consulting field so I know whereof I speak). This concept is probably just a bargaining chip to pressure the Port of Seattle to reduce the Cost per Enplaned Passenger (CPE). POS has already undergone an extensive review of financing for future projects and has reduced the CPE from $20-25 to around $15. This is a reasonable number when compared with other international hub airports. SW, arbitrarily, says it has to be below $10 for them to be profitable. However, SW had also previously agreed to all the improvements being made at SEATAC, so a cynical person might say that, now that the SEATAC is commited to these improvements, SW is trying to gain a competitive advantage over the other airlines by leaving SEATAC in the lurch. But that’s business right? I agree, only so long as the public doesn’t susidize the move.
All this is complicated even further with Alaska saying that they would also need to have flights out of Boeing to stay competitive with SW, reducing the load further at SEATAC, thus increasing the CPE even more for those airlines that remain. And increrasing the number of flights and road traffic around Boeing field, making it even less attractive to the NIMBY’s. Good luck, SW. Have you met the people who tied up the Third Runway at SEATAC for 10+ years?
If SW really can’t afford the CPE at SEATAC, they should pull out altogether. That would be a real free market.
Why no public money to SWA? Since when is Sims frugal with taxpayer money? Or is it because SWA is one of those eeeeeevil corporations?
Who do we hand BILLIONS to corporations who own pro sports teams but not to a corporation that provides valuable transportation service? What’s the difference?
Oh, this is good. Sims is always saying what a great company SWA is and yet they booted an Oregon woman off a plane because other customers complained about her anti-Bush t-shirt. So much for freedom of speech. I guess it’s true you really don’t mess with Texas (-based companies).
http://www.krnv.com/Global/sto.....=menu113_2
After wattching news reports of Bush’s press conference on TV, I wonder if George plans to put Ann Coulter in charge of using the military to enforce avian flu quarantines of (liberal) cities and states. You know — “Fire! Fire at will!” (Ann Coulter, you will recall, has publicly declare that liberals should be put in “concentration camps” and “executed.”)
Dear Mother of God — Republicans are scary! This is the same president who wants authority to torture people and jail American citizens without charges or trials! Now he says he might use U.S. troops to surround AMERICAN cities! OF COURSE the necessary implication of Bush’s statements yesterday are that American soldiers will be killing American civilian citizens in American cities — if, in the president’s opinion, such action is necessary to “contain” whatever fake avian flu crisis he and Karl Rove dream up. I don’t trust these GOP bastards any farther than I can throw them! If this is their policy, then what’s to stop them from using the U.S. military to invade U.S. cities for the purpose of killing liberals, Democrats, gays, and other people they don’t like?
Guns, that’s what. Liberals need to arm themselves. We can’t afford to put ourselves in a position where only right-wing fanatics have guns. Not when we have a president who might put someone like Ann Coulter in charge of using the U.S. military against us in our own towns and homes.
Boeing Field only has a limited capacity for commerical passenger flights. Southwest would take up the majority of that capacity. Other airlines, like American, Alaska, etc. also want to move flights to Boeing Field. The reason is that Boeing Field would be cheaper than SeaTac — if airlines don’t have to pay very much to operate there. This leads to the limited capacity at Boeing Field being rapidly oversubscribed.
There are lots of reasons why commercial passenger service from Boeing Field would be a BAD idea. But if they are going to do it, then Boeing Field’s limited capacity should be sold to the highest bidder on normal short term leases, rather than cutting a sweetheart deal with Southwest giving them most of the capacity for 50 years at a very low cost. If Southwest had to pay a competitive price for Boeing Field, rather than getting a sweetheart deal, then it probably wouldn’t move in the first place, and all this nonsense would be over with.
Maybe I’m confused about the word “subsidy”. I’m pretty sure freeway ramp access and surface streets would need to be substantially improved to accomodate a commercial carrier moving to B Field. This is specifically not included in SW’s proposal, I believe. So, if the local gov’t pays for the road upgrades, isn’t that a subsidy? Or are people playing word games here to hide the fact that there will be public monies spent to ONE airline’s benefit, even if the money is not given directly to the airline?
Another note: You think the Monorail threw a wrench into Sound Transit’s planning? Regional air travel planning is arguably much more complex (primarily due to the numerous and vociferous commercial interests involved. The airline people I have worked with act as if they are being personally pursued by the scourging, demonic whips of the bottom line and competitive advatage. Lawyers and sharks ain’t in it, as the Brits say). I can’t wait for the “Tim Eyeman of Boeing Field” (heavily but discreetly funded by SW) to emerge, and use the initiative process to bypass all the folks (not me, thankfully) who have spent YEARS trying to come up with a workable solution to this area’s needs.
It is wrong for the public to create an environment whereby some private companies benefit and others don’t.
This is a bad proposal all around.
Hey Mark the Redneck: Two wrongs don’t make a right. And, I believe (I may be misremembering details, but generally)that Seattle voted against susidizing the sport’s stadiums, it was the state legislature that voted that in.
Generally, progressives are against corporate welfare, though. The real problem here isn’t that people might subsidize improving Boeing Field for all, it’s that it would give one of those evil corps a competitive advantage over the others, which they in turn would use to stick it to the consumer. Not very free market, and thus not very conservative. Get ur ideology straight.
Not only is it a bad idea to create an environment whereby some private companies benefit and others don’t but it’s even worse in my opinion when you are favoring an out of state company over your local hometown company. (Alaska Airlines.)
And don’t forget that Alaska Airlines owns Horizon Air so the regional airports will be hurt too if Alaska ends up weakened.
Maybe this was Ron’s plan all along? His failed race for governor showed he’ll never have a chance at a state-wide office so maybe this is payback time. Not to mention that his campaign manager from his his failed run is a registered SWA lobbyist so they both get to enjoy in the payback.
Roger Rabbit-7
I agree with the Wabbit. Even though GW did not get the troops into N.O fast enough, there is no reason to contemplate solutions for flu epidemics. It would be better to count on the vaccines. Oops. That is GW’s fault too. Anyhow, if any kind of epidemic hits the US it will primarily clean out the heavy urban (blue) areas, which can then be blamed on GW also. Wabbit can’t lose!
Jennifer et al,
I think everybody is getting their undies in a knot for no good reason. SW has proposed moving to Boeing Field, and Sims has suggested that they study the proposal. No details, no final terms, no committments… just study it and see if it makes sense. Sims HAS NOT come out in support of the deal.. he merely wants to look at all the options.
I surely hope that’s not enough to drive you to vote for an unqualified, pathological liar like David Irons.
You’re making a much bigger deal of this than it deserves. I agree with the Larry that his is mostly a play by SW to pressure SeaTac into lowering its fees.
I think the SW plane breaks down with two sides: The Business Side and the Quality Of Life Side. The Buisiness side looks at the value of cheap flights out of Seattle metro, with competition among airlines. The Quality Of Life Side is important too, because folks who live in Seattle may think it’s more important to not have additional flights at a local airport.
My question for the use of Boeing Field for commercial jet flights is how are they’ll handle the fact that the flightpath for Boeing Field crosses the flightpath for Seatac. If you look at a map, you’ll see that Boeing field is directly north of Seatac and Seatac’s landing strips are N-S..
I am going to have to agree with Richard here…. While SW’s move of locking their opponents into Sea-Tac while they bolt for the cheaper Boeing Field makes a lot of sense from their point of view, I hardly see this as an overall win for anyone but them under their conditions.
If the county decides it wants to open up Boeing field for commecial air traffic then lets do so under conditions that benefit everyone. I somehow doubt that if SW or any other airline was asked to provide all the money for infastructure and noise abatement that they would step up to the plate.
It makes sense for SW to try this, but it makes no sense for us to approve the deal as it now stands.
Sorry but this is an election issue for me. Sims is back tracking now claiming he’s neutral but if you look at his public statements before this became a hot issue they read otherwise.
And if he truly is neutral and just wants to study the issue, why is he (or at least his chief of staff) claiming the Alaska Airlines proposal is just a game? And why haven’t we seen any positive statements from Sims on the fact that a local carrier is matching this SWA offer. He *gushed* over the SWA back in July. ‘Refreshing’ was one of my favorite adjectives he used. So, SWA’s proposal is ‘refreshing’ but Alaska’s is a game?
At this point, I am so pissed off at Sims that I’ll gladly throw my vote away on Irons as you say. I am sick and tired of the Dems not cleaning their own house. Sims has been wounded for a long time and yet no one within the party would challenge him. Like I said, it’s the Dems fault if they lose the Executive Office. I am tired of being told I need to be a ‘good Democrat’. My response is that Ron needs to be a ‘good Democrat’ and realize that there is more than enough info already to turn down this proposal. He doesn’t need to study it any longer. So many Democratic groups have come out against it. Why won’t he do the same?
As I told Ron at DL, if the alternative airport was north of Seattle, I’d be all for exploring the SWA offer. At Boeing Field, IMHO, it’s a non-starter due to air congestion, noise, and other problems.
SWA flies into smaller airports in a number of markets — Manchester and Providence instead of Logan, Love Field rather than DFW, Midway instead of O’Hare. But even the closest of those (Midway and O’Hare) are 15 miles apart; Boeing Field is just 6 miles from SeaTac. In addition, the runways of our two airports are on very similar directional orientations, so the two will always have to worry about interference from the other. OTOH, the Chicago airports both have runways at a variety of orientations. If the takeoff/landing patterns in Chicago are basically east-west, the two airports won’t clash at all.
That said, Sims is making no commitments. If Southwest can overcome all the inherent obstacles, from flight patterns to noise to terminals to access roads, maybe they deserve a chance. If not, there’s a place for them at SeaTac if they decide to stay in the Seattle market.
Jennifer, if you really do end up throwing your vote away, please toss it at Gentry Lange of the Greens, not that “pathological liar” (as stated by his own father) David Irons.
I’d love to vote for a Green as I’ve voted Green in the past but if I cross lines this year, it’s in an effort to get Sims out of office so we Dems can get a better candidate next go around. Green candidate doesn’t have a chance but Irons does. Obviously no one from within the party elite is going to challenge Sims so that only leaves us the choice of voting him out.
#8.Roger Rabbit writes, “After watching news reports of Bush’s press conference on TV, I wonder if George plans to put Ann Coulter in charge of using the military to enforce avian flu quarantines of (liberal) cities and states. You know – “Fire! Fire at will!” (Ann Coulter, you will recall, has publicly declare that liberals should be put in “concentration camps” and “executed.”)” [God, I love her!!!]
All you need to know about Ron Sims:
“I thought government’s role was to establish infrastructure so that wealth could be made by the private sector,” Sims says.
Disclaimer: I speak as someone who has large quantities of property in an area affected by airplane noise, and see a move by Southwest in terms of an immediate and substantial quantity of both revenue and asset value loss.
With that in mind, can someone explain the increased consumer value to me?
Southwest gets cheaper landing slots. This is good for Southwest. Southwest passes some of this savings along to consumers. Plane tickets are now $6-10 cheaper per seat. Good for consumers. How many people are going to benefit from this?
If road upgrades are made on the public dime, how much are we paying to buy cheaper Southwest seats?
How many millions of dollars of property/quality of life value is being shaved off of Beacon Hill/Georgetown property owners because our windows rattle every 20 minutes?
I can see righties rubbing their hands with glee saying “Oh! Now you see. Welcome to our world.”
Fucking bite me. Hard.
I live in a neighborhood that ranges from just plain po’ to kind of sort of barely upper middle class. Every single person I know here has the bulk of their worldly assets tied up in property. This is not a little skim off the top to benefit the more unfortunate members of society. This would blow a huge hole into things that we’ve saved our entire lives to buy. At the same time, I am seeing very little public benefit except for a huge giveaway to Southwest Airlines.
JSA –
You hit the nail on the head. I’m perfectly happy to fly SW into Oakland when I go to San Francisco (and into Burbank when I go to LA), but why open that can of worms here?
I’m with Jennifer – I don’t think I can vote for Ron Sims (god knows I won’t vote for Irons, though!) based on his support for corporate welfare in general and this stinker in particular.
jsa @ 24:
I totally agree. I don’t get how this is good for anybody but Southwest. Sims is wrong on this one. And when he touts jobs, he should be asked how many, and at what pay rate? Are these living wage jobs, etc? How many jobs will be lost at Sea-Tac? How much cheaper will my ticket on SW be? He’s obviously made this calculation that those benefits are going to outweigh the negatives. We should make him show us his math, because it just doesn’t add up.
N in Seattle @ 20
That’s the same thing I’ve been thinking.. Well, similar thing. Why not Paine Field? King County doesn’t reel in the bucks because of it, but there already is a 4-6 lane highway (SR526) leading to it from I-5 and since SWA is already willing to build a terminal and parking garage for Boeing Field, I’m sure they’d still be willing to do so up in Everett.
If it has to absolutely be in King County, would Renton Municipal work? Boeing uses it for their 737s and SWA is all 737.. It’s still mighty close to Seatac, but it doesn’t appear that their flightpaths are overlapping like Seatac and Boeing field. Downside with Renton Municipal is that the flightpath is right over Mercer Island and I don’t see that flying over to well.;) Not to mention there’d need to be infrastructure upgrades to get to Renton Municipal.
The only other airport I see on google maps in King county is in Auburn, but it’s a puddle jumper and would need massive infrastructure to support 737s.
The only reason the Green candidate doesn’t have a chance is because the media purposely excludes him from all discussions.
If you have a chance to read his website… http://www.gentrylange.com, you’ll find he’s got more to say about voting reform than both Ron and David combined. It’s a bullet point plan for election reform. And while I may not think everything on it is perfect, at least he offers real ideas instead of political pandering with no substance.
But according to the media his campaign doesn’t even exist. David Iron’s own poll showed Gentry Lange at 5% just 2 days after entering the race, but King 5’s poll doesn’t even mention his name.
Goldy here is guilty of the same myopic view.
You know who the media puts on stage from 3rd parties, not someone with something to say, no, they put up people who they can ridicule easily. Mr. Lange has something to say, obviously then, no one will ever be allowed to hear it.
There was already a proposal to allow commercial traffic at Paine Field and some community opposition killed it, ironically, with help from the Snohomish County Executive.
Third parties are a joke. If Mr. Lange can’t get anyone to listen to him, maybe he doesn’t have anything interesting to say.
Third parties are just a bunch of sore losers having temper tantrums. If they were serious about their candidacies, they would go to the major parties and work to persuade them to their views. Instead, they sit on the outside and cry about how unfair it all is.
I wish the Republican party would adopt more libertarian views. That doesn’t mean I would ever vote for a libertarian, because that would be the waste of a vote. I’ll take someone I agree with most of the time over someone who I think is wrong on most issues.
The CEO of SWA was asked if they would consider Paine Field as an option at the hearing held last month at the Museum of Flight. The CEO replied that SWA would not consider Paine Field as it does not fit their business model.
As for the per passenger fee savings, it’s important to remember that SWA has not said they’ll pass along the savings to the consumers.
And, as for the highly praised “Southwest Effect” that’s been proven to happen when SWA moves into an area and forces down air fares, don’t forget that this isn’t a new market. SWA is already flying here. There was testimony at the public hearing stating that the “Southwest Effect” has already been achieved in our region.
Although SWA is spinning this as good for consumers (and Sims is slurping it up) this isn’t the case. SWA isn’t doing it for consumers. They are doing it to get a competitive edge over Alaska Airlines and to a lesser extent, their arch enemy American Airlines. It’s business 101. Weaken your competitors so you can win. It has nothing to do with consumers.
Yo Janet,
Your ignorance, as usual, is breathtaking. Guess how the Rethug party started? That’s right – they were a third party (perhaps you’d like the Green Party better if they changed their name to the Whigs?)
That said, third parties are better at electing the guy they like less than themselves (Perot helped Clinton, Nader helped Bush, etc)…
Jennifer.
If you were commenting on my “savings on seat cost” comment, I never meant to imply that SWA would pass ALL the savings on landing fees on to customers.
Some, perhaps. A few bucks a seat. Sure. If SWA built a terminal, and passed 100% of the savings in landing fees on in the form of cheaper tickets, they would be involved in what is fundamentally a money-losing proposition. SWA is an extremely well-managed airline and would not do something that did not entail increased revenue for them.
The Republicans were never a third party, in the same vein that the Greens or Libertarians are. They emerged as a full fledged second party, and won elections from the very beginning. Except for a few oddities, mostly local, contemporary third parties are there for the amusement of the party not being nibbled at, not for actually winning elections. Seems to me to be a waste of time and resources. But, hey, if you want to be tangential to the process, go for it.
Bobblehead @ 17: Good point on air congestion. I seem to recall during the third runway at SeaTac debate use of Boeing Field was brought up in lieu of another runway; but this was shot down saying BF couldn’t handle the traffic due to its proximity to SeaTac. What’s changed?
In any event, I agree with Goldy on that this proposal is a tool to get more money out of the Port.
Nader in no way helped Bush, this is a myth. The election was stolen. If Democrats had half the courage of the Greens, David Cobb, or the Libertarians, Michael Banarik, they would have contested both 2000 and 2004. If Nader wasn’t in the race, the Reps would have purged even more legally registered voters.
Jennifer@various, JSA@24, Mr.X@25: I don’t live in King County, so it’s not really my ball park, but Mr. Sims doesn’t look like a Democrat from a distance either. At least he’s not my kind of Democrat. I listened and watched him closely during the campaign season for Governor: I think he’s a conservative – in all the worst senses that word has come to define (among other things: self-rightous, self interested, sexist, doesn’t care what happens to neighborhoods unless it’s his, high-handed) I think he’s flying under a false flag.
Jennifer… what makes you think David Irons would stop SWA from moving to Boeing Field?
The airline industry is rapidly falling to pieces over a number of factors that are not being discussed above. Part of SWA desire to be at Boeing Field is the availability of localized maintenance and repair facilities that could be used reducing those costs over all. Likewise other airlines are seeking to reduce the necessary travel and shipping for parts and personnel as the fleet of planes age across the board. None can afford the new Boeings, and are currently desiring to purchase the cheaper, and ostensibly more reliable, AirBus units subsidized out of Europe. What with rapid fuel cost increases and reduced flights, we won’t be left with too many options when flying about the country, continent, or world. Already the three major carriers are cutting flights and services, and reducing hub activities. These sorts of decisions are made with the bottom line of the companies forefront in the minds of the boards. There will be not one penny of any apparent cost savings shared with anyone other than the shareholders who demand more profit out of poorer and more unreliable service.
The Republicans emerged as the Whigs declined. Seems to me the Dems are also in decline. The Greens have won elections all across the country. There are almost 300 elected officials that are Green. The Greens are also an international party, unlike the Dems or the Reps, so while in the US they have a hard time breaking the media barrier, around the world they are pretty strong. And it is also easy to point out that they are currently the fastest growing party in the US.
Finally, I have never heard Mr. Lange whine about not getting attention. When I have heard him speak, it has been reasoned and articulate. While he’s young, he does have something to say, and if the media didn’t restrict his access to a platform to say it from, he could maybe even get you, Jennifer, to listen.
But apparently your solution is to beg at the table of the major parties. Well some of us have tried that route, and know that it’s a dead end street. Who had more impact on American Politics, Dennis Kucinich or Ralph Nader?
Jennifer@3: Acting like a Republican? You’ve got to be kidding. Not listening to people? That is standard LEFTIST PINHEAD Standard Operating Procedure.
I am not sure that Irons would stop SWA but he’s more outspoken on it at this point than Sims. There’s hope. He’s not in bed with a SWA lobbyist like Sims is and Sims is ignoring the home town airline which pisses me off.
Not to mention that Democrats on the King County Council started to hear about the discussions with SWA and asked the Executive Office about the rumors and were told that there was no truth to the rumors. So, why trust a Democratic Executive who lies to his fellow Democrats on the council? If he lies to people in his own party with political power, he’ll certainly lie to me.
Irons may flip too but how does that make him any worse than Sims saying he’s neutral to the press and those opposed and yet he fights for the issue at DL using the economic data supplied by SWA as his proof points when the press isn’t around? And as for the jobs he says will be created, wanna bet that the fast food and car rental jobs at the new air terminal environs will pay less than the jobs lost by Alaska Air?
So, I’ll give Irons the benefit of the doubt for now over Sims.
If this were the only issue, I might consider not voting for either of them. But, for me, it’s the final straw with Sims. I supported him on gay rights and state income tax and his primary race for governor but he’s failed miserably in other areas. King County Elections office anyone? Software migration project across the county? The only reason I would vote for him is because he is a Democrat.
And yet he’s ignoring fellow Dems. Why is it that Sims is ignoring people like Cantwell and Murray and the King Co. Democratic Executive Committee, and the WA State Dems, and the 34th District Dems, and the 37th District Dems steering committee? All these groups have come out opposed to this idea.
So, I’ve decided to throw in the towel on Sims and give someone else another try. He obviously doesn’t share my Democratic values anymore or respect the opinion of other Democrats. I’d rather live with a Republican as county exec for the next term who I know doesn’t share my values in hopes of bringing in a strong, true Democrat to challenge the next time than live through another term with Sims.
Sims is a conservative? He pushed a freaking income tax in the primary for Governor for god sakes, an issue that few Democrats will talk about at all.
Goldy @ 15—
GOLDY’S DOING DAMAGE CONTROL FOR SIMS!!!! ALERT! ALERT!
So Goldy, if Sims “dove into the debate with a passionate abandon” as YOU say in the thread….but is now retreating to a “study” as you backpedal in Post #15—-are you saying Sims PASSIONATELY debated for a fucking study????
You are so full of shit Goldy.
Sims is the frontman for SWA.
Jennifer has it exactly correct.
Now you are trying to soften on this.
Do you really believe anyone with half a fucking brain trusts Ron Sims???
Sims will now say ANYTHING to get elected….including backpedal on this…for now. But once Sims is re-elected, it will be full steam ahead for SWA at Boeing Field. The fix is on!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bad Try Goldy====No Sale.
But thank you Goldy for revealing what a schmuck Sims is to us…..AGAIN!
Sims ran for governor and actually hurt his chances for survival in the job he had locked. He’s pissed off plenty of people to drop his numbers so far from his last election.
Pushing an income tax was a dumb idea. Firing good election officials to hire dumb ones, was an even dumber idea. How many county officials need to sue King County before the citizens boot this guy out of office. But the all time dumbest move, saying, “We have an accounting system in elections that a bank would be proud of.” Hillarity.
Goldy, Ron Sims, Dean Logan, Bill Huennekens
The 4 Stooges!
The Gang that Couldn’t Shoot Straight! Ready, FIRE, Aim!!!
Seattle wouldn’t be in such a snarl…
If Marx had been Groucho, instead of Karl!!!!
Goldy and Logan are Sims BUTTBOYS….the BUTTBOY twins!!!!
A lot of folks don’t know much about Irons….
But they know enough about Sims, Logan and Huennekens to know enough is enough!!
Sometimes you just gotta vote the bastards OUT!
Cynical,
It’ll be fun to watch you cry when Sims whomps Irons – please send the video to the Drinking Liberally folks so we can watch you cry (as Cartman called it) the Tears of Infinite Sadness…
Still on the dumbass homophobic kick, too, I see. Methinks thou doth protest too much…
Urbanite Larry: Who controlled the Legislature when these stadia were built?
Mr. X—@46–
No tears from me if Sims wins…the joke is on the LEFTIST PINHEADS who call KingCo home.
If Sims wins===Dean Logan keeps his job.
If Sims Loses==Dean Logan is fired.
If David Irons wins===Dean Logan is FIRED.
EVERYTHING flows from fair, accurate and impartial elections.
Logan is counting the ballots in November and his fucking job depends on the outcome.
How in the hell do you think he is going to perform????
When something is questionable, how will Logan rule???
Even if Logan were honest….there is a HUGE appearance of fairness issue re: this November election. HUGE. And only avoidable is Logan goes on sabbatical until AFTER the election is certified.
That would be the right thing to do…..but Logan won’t because if Irons wins….Logan is FIRED!!!!!!
OK LEFTIST PINHEADS et al
It’s time for those of us who are always RIGHT to bring in our TOPGUN….our Lawyer with testicles the size of Bowling Balls.
I’m talkin’ about our mystery lawyer who makes Goldy’s Attorney X look like a pansy-ass who walks with his elbows in!
You know who I’m talkin’ about.
Yes, it’s the one and only bad ass attorney…DICK VAN DYKE!!!!!
Y’know, Cynical, we were having a reasonable, informative, nuanced, on-topic discussion here until you showed up.
The last SWA proposal I saw is both front-loaded and back-loaded with public subsidies. Up front, taxpayers have to pay for $100 million of road improvements (quite likely at the expense of critical projects like AWV and 520), and possibly for runway upgrades at BF. Then, 50 years from now, SWA will “give” the county a worthless, worn out, obsolete terminal and parking garage so taxpayers get stuck with the costs of tearing it down. All so SWA, not passengers, can save 5 bucks a ticket in landing fees — in the process, sticking taxpayers again for hundreds of millions of dollars of SeaTac improvements that will be left idle by SWA’s, Horizon’s, and Alaska’s departure from SeaTac.
Has something changed while I was on vacation?
Roger; I’m really on the floor; SWA is taking 520 money?
I thought condom/banana demos and other stupid “progressive” causes were stealing the 520 funds..
Righton, I just read that. I started laughing too. Rupert Wabbit, are you SURE that is what’s happnin? Golly Goldy, doesn’t that new proposal information just piss you off? Oh, wait no it doesn’t what was I thinking. It came from one of your friends.
Righton, maybe if you put a lubricated condom on a half eaten banana it won’t turn brown as fast.
Nin—@49–
OOOPS! I guess I didn’t notice all the “reasonableness” & “nuances”….
What I did notice is that Goldy seems to be doing damage control for his BUTTBUDDY Sims.
Frankly, I agree with all of you who believe this SWA @ Boeing Field is a real travesty. Hard to know exactly what pocket the money will be coming out of to pay for the road improvements. Hell, for all I know Rabbit may be right which is PRECISELY why folks should vote YES on I-912. WSDOT Funds tend to be shell-gamed around….sometimes straightforwardly & other times….well, less so.
What do you think Sims is in line for by carrying SWA bacon???
Perhaps Sims will have some sort of cushy lobbying job for them after he loses to David Irons??? Or if Sims squeaks out a victory, perhaps Sims pay-off will be down the road…..it’s called “deferred” compensation. You do me a favor today…..and we will take care of our friendly elected official down the road.
Goldy needs to wake up quick. He is starting to smell like Sims..and it ain’t good.
Perhaps Dick VanDyke can investigate this and look for “relationships”??? Go get ’em Dick!
Juliet @ 41:
Kucinich had little impact because he was a weak candidate. As far as Ralph Nader, he made the Greens in 2000, not the other way around.
In theory, I’d love to see the U.S.’s two-party structure broken. In practice, I’d be surprised if it happened in my lifetime. American history is littered with the grand dreams of fledgling third parties that accomplished little in the way of electoral successes (particularly at the national level).
Furthermore, to argue that the Democrats are the modern equivalent of the Whigs strikes me as overreaching. All it would take is one mega scandal to blow up in the Republicans’ face (e.g., the “pay-to-play schemes of Abramoff and DeLay) and it’s a whole new ballgame.
If you manage to get proportional voting passed in a few states, then let’s talk. Until then, voting Green in a close race is the equivalent of voting for the Republican.
Green Thumb@54–
Au Contraire GT.
Ross Perot had the 1992 Presidential Election in his grasp with less than a month to go. I will always believe Perot got scared and intentionally made comments so he would lose.
Perot showed what a plain talker could do….how deperate America was for a change from the existing 2 Party’s.
A Kuchinich will NEVER win…..he is too far LEFT.
Nader has reached his peak….downhill for him from here.
A plain-talking hard-core fiscal conservative, social moderate who refuses to pander to the FAR LEFTIST PINHEADS but has a proven track record of blending environmentally responsible ACTION (not just rhetoric) that avoids major negative economic impacts…..can do it.
Someone close to a John McCain/Joe Lieberman/Steve Forbes with a stronger personality and more grounded in statistics about where America is today and where it is going…..just like Perot did with all those charts! Forbes is quite solid in the numbers/facts department but just doesn’t quite have the dynamic personality.
Don’t give up folks.
I’m as disappointed in Bush’s “printing press approach” to finance as many of you should be to the “pandering” of the likes of Kerry & Edwards to the fringe lunatic LEFTIST PINHEADS!
43
Income tax is a conservative proposal
The faux conservatives claim it’s not — but real conservatives don’t like regressive taxes (like we’ve got)
This is B O R I N G so, I’m taking it upon myself to change the subject. Deal with it.
Err on the side of LIFE:
Italian Coma Victim Awakens After Two Years, Says He Heard Everything
by Steven Ertelt
October 5, 2005
Rome, Italy – A man who had been placed in a coma for two years as a result of an automobile accident recently awoke and told doctors and his family that he heard and understood everything going on around him during the time.
Salvatore Crisafulli, a father of four, describes his case as a “miracle” proving that lost causes are not hopeless.
“The doctors said that I wasn’t conscious, but I understood everything and I cried in desperation,” Crisafulli, who is 38, told Italian media outlets Thursday.
Although the situations are not entirely similar, Crisafulli’s brother Pietro called the recovery “an Italian Terri Schiavo case.”
He emerged from the coma three months ago and began speaking recently – his first word was “Mamma.”
The news comes at the same time as a national bioethics committee in Italy put forward guidelines saying that incapacitated patients should be provided normal medical care, including food and water.
“To feed an unconscious patient through a tube is not a medical act,” the committee’s president, Francesco D’Agostino, said, according to a Reuters report. “It’s like giving a bottle to a newborn baby who can’t be nursed by its mother … And then we reflect on the Schiavo case. The woman was left to die of starvation.”
“My brother speaks and remembers. I don’t expect that he will be like he was, but it’s already a miracle,” Pietro told the Italian Corriere della Sera newspaper. “And to think that some doctors said that it was all useless and that he would be dead in three, four months.”
Oh, this is good. Sims is always saying what a great company SWA is and yet they booted an Oregon woman off a plane because other customers complained about her anti-Bush t-shirt. So much for freedom of speech. I guess it’s true you really don’t mess with Texas (-based companies).
http://www.krnv.com/Global/sto.....=menu113_2
Comment by Jennifer— 10/5/05 @ 11:38 am
Jennifer what’s your problem, the other side does the same thing using political correctness. I deal with this shit everyday with dumb ass’s enforceing their personnal agenda from all sides. If you disagree with them you are the villain and they depart with their nose up in the AIR. Now you have to deal with the Political Correctness Police who take no prisoners and don’t follow the Geneva Convention rules. Now no one is allowed to speak nor express themselves in public. Hey Wrabbit I see you climb out of your hole, how the world look now?
GET OFF TERRY SCHAIVO YOU GHOUL!
I surely hope that’s not enough to drive you to vote for an unqualified, pathological liar like David Irons.
You’re making a much bigger deal of this than it deserves. I agree with the Larry that his is mostly a play by SW to pressure SeaTac into lowering its fees.
Comment by Goldy— 10/5/05 @ 12:19 pm
Goldy you should know better than that. You might offend Mr Irons and he might cry because you hirt his feelings. You should apologize to him for calling him a liar. You know love and pease. Dont Bogart that BC bud, Ohh I for got you now have grow your own.
thomas trainwinder; wrong..
No conservative would want an income tax. Think about it, I save, spend less than most, so I’d rather get taxed on consumption than income.
I think Wilson signed the first income tax bill …a democrat..
Mr. Cynical @ 57 — 10/5/05 @ 7:24 pm –
I can’t help myself – this is the second reference (that I’ve seen) to Dick Van Dyke, apparently as an attorney. I think you’ve been watching too much PAX on TV…
Do you mean Dick Van Dyke as in “Dr. Stone” in Diagnosis Murder? If so, who has Goldy killed? Or do you REALLY mean Andy Griffith as “Matlock” on the show of the same name? Or is this merely another slack jawed, mouth breather’s attempt to twist reality?
@66–
My aren’t you curious….Curious George.
Rather than explain it to you…I’ll just let you continue to be “curious”.
HINT: You are very close to nailing it!
Thomas Trainwinder@60—
If you are so “Progressive” Thomas, how come you favor an incredibly “Regressive” GasTax???
Seems you LEFTIST PINHEADS are constantly stepping on your shlongs!! You are no Dick Van Dyke that’s for sure.
Your hero Teddy “Swimmer” Kennedy would sure face a dilemma if Bush did what this letter writer to the Times suggests.
Read it and weep….I was weeping as in LMFAO!!!!
$64,000 question
I was hoping President Bush would nominate Sen. Edward Kennedy, D-Mass., to replace Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O’Connor. What a dilemma that would pose for the senator! Would he support himself, or attack his own nomination because of his hate for Bush? Think of the dirt he could dig up on such a nominee.
— Jerry Rhodes, Bothell
Well if Ted the swimmer got to the Supreme court I know how he would vote on prohibition. Heheheh
If you manage to get proportional voting passed in a few states, then let’s talk. Until then, voting Green in a close race is the equivalent of voting for the Republican.
I hear you… the republicans lost in 1992 because too many of them wasted their vote on Perot. Well they got good material for porno movies out of it at least.
Reply to 49
The Republicans, because they controlled the Senate, and the Democrats couldn’t pass ANYTHING without GOP support.
Reply to 54
Who gives a fuck what YOU “think?” You don’t think. You just scratch your ass and call it “thinking.”
54 & 55
Maybe you two dumb fucks would like to explain to the rest of us how King County will pay for $100 million of road subsidies to kiss Southwest Airlines’ corporate ass without taking the money from other projects? And WHAT are the high-priority, big-dollar projects in King County, pray tell?
Reply to 62
“Hey Wrabbit I see you climb out of your hole, how the world look now?”
Same-old — you’re as dumb as you’ve always been.
Furthermore, Klake, you can’t even fucking spell.
Comment on 65
Tell the truth — you’d rather not get taxed at all — because you’re a Republican F R E E L O A D E R
HowCanAnAssBeProud
Thanks again for exhuming the dead to prove…uh, NOTHING!!
You have eloquently proved that you are as brain dead as Terri was. Facts don’t lie…or did you miss researching the coroners report on accident?
Oh and BTW, stupid friggen (pardon the pun) dead subjects are what Goldy makes the sandbox for…and this is the perfect thing for it.
Damn, get a life!
素人ライブチャット、無料ライブチャットが萌えて凄いライブチャット倶楽部で炎のライブチャット、そして素人で萌え。ライブチャット最前線だからライブチャット糾弾風呂具。萌え萌えライブチャットでぷるるんライブチャット。God bless.
DamnageD seems more disappointed in Proud than Teddy Kennedy waking up after passing out in a Martini Bar only to find out he missed LAST CALL!
Hell, DD is more disappointed than Rosie O’Donnell finding a CLOSED sign at the Buffet!!
Or…
More disappointed than Don Ron Sims King finding out he lost to David Irons by 1 vote despite his supports voting multiple times under multiple names and addresses….aka cheatin’ his ass off!
Or…
More disappointed than Clinton finding out Monica Lewdinsky was a dude!! and so is Hillary!
Mr. C @ 67 –
Ah…. Dick Van Dyke as the the corrupt D.A. in the movie Dick Tracy. I sit corrected. My apologies.
Although it’s no defense, I must say that 1990 was 15 years and two lives ago for me.
Curious George—
I thought LEFTIST PINHEADS preferred the movie DICKLESS TRACY….since they are so gender conscience.
ライブチャット @ 78
Is your posting really in Chinese-type characters? Amazing. But how are most of us supposed to know what you are saying?
Cyn-irr
Disappointed ??
I was “disappointed” to see NO drown days before it rained and not be able to do more.
I was “disappointed” when monkey-boy George got to inflict 4 more years of lies and treachery.
…but not nearly as “disappointed” as you were when the courts told Rossi and the local Repubs to sit down and shut up.
How was that crow?
Ouch! Crow is still crow no matter how you season it.
But DD, your life is filled with disappointment and crow eating:
Gore/Lieberman
Kerry/Edwards
Ted “Swimmer” Kennedy
Melvin Reynolds
Jesse Jackson
Monica Lewdinsky
R’s control White House, House & Senate.
I-912 will pass
You are ugly.
I guess we all have disappoints. It’s a part of life, isn’t it?
you call me ugly??
now theres a dissapointment!
I really appreciate what you’re doing here. Very interesting site. Big, White, Big nothing comparative to Astonishing: http://hubblesite.org/newscenter/ , Circle can Compute Plane to Fetch Cosmos you should be very Red , when Chips Fetch Plane Kill Bad, Curious, Profound nothing comparative to Green