I’ve been awfully quiet about Tim Eyman recently, and for a number of reasons, not the least of which being my reluctance to be pigeonholed an “Eyman critic” at a time when Tim is gradually transitioning to the role of a marginal political figure.
But I have also been loathe to publicly discuss Timmy’s proposed performance audits initiative in any detail, for fear he might cull something constructive from my criticism. I’ve never subscribed to the theory that Tim is some sort of a political genius… but he ain’t dumb. And he certainly doesn’t need my help in perfecting the initiative’s policy or rhetoric prior to its January filing date.
That said (or not said), I agree 100 percent with the sentiment expressed in an editorial today in The Seattle P-I: “Beware of magic bullets.” Surprise… Tim is pitching a very simple fix to a very complex public policy issue, cloaked as usual in his familiar anti-government spiel.
I support the concept of performance audits — in theory — perhaps even to a greater extent than currently conducted by the Joint Legislative Audit and Review Committee (JLARC). In fact, I would like to see JLARC extend the audits from state agencies to tax exemptions.
But once the public learns of the true costs of Eyman’s overreaching initiative, and how little in savings we can reasonably expect to see in return… well… I don’t suppose it will make much of a difference one way or the other, as I sincerely doubt that Tim can raise the kind of money or grassroots fervor necessary to get this dog onto the ballot.
More on this subject after the New Year.
Well, I think it’s good you’re on this issue. But I think Gov’r-elect Dino Rossi will institute a version of this w/in his first 100 days.
I also think LIE-man should go screw himself. He’s just as washed up as Sizemore, just not in as much legal trouble YET. The PDC currently has a pending investigation against him…
And anybody can discuss this investigation at http://www.permanentdefense.com/forum . . .
This just in from the Skagit Valley Herald:
———
He [Rossi] also said he approves of performance audits, which aim to reduce government waste and improve efficiency.
“The first question always should be, ‘Should government be doing this function in the first place,'” Rossi said. “If the answer is, ‘yes,’ then the second question is, ‘How do we do these things?'”
Not by raising taxes, Rossi said. More taxes would further injure the population of a state struggling with a high rate of unemployment, Rossi said. Nationally, Washington has the 13th highest unemployment rate.
———
GO DINO! PUT THE LIE-MAN OUTTA BUISNESS!
And if LIE-MAN wants another 892, well, well I just happen to have a friend who can loan us her Pentagon…
Dino Rossi put Tim Eyman out of business? Laughable. I think you ignore the fact that Dino Rossi and Tim Eyman are very good friends.
Yeah, and there’s a cave in the Cascades they’re all hiding in Jenny.
I’m confident that when Rossi passes the sensible version and Eyman is in trouble with the PDC – Eyman will be politically dead. You can’t do much political from jail…
Doubly so, dear, when you’re proven to be a fraud, a rip-off artist and convicted of mail fraud in the court of law…
OOPS, I meant “you” to be LIE-man…
Don’t be so quick to give Rossi credit he doesn’t deserve. The Democratic house has passed expanded performance audits legislation in recent sessions, only to see it blocked in committee in the Republican controlled Senate. My understanding is that the Democratic leadership had plans to send a performance audit bill to the governor this year.
So neither Eyman or Rossi should take credit for pushing this issue.
I agree with you Goldy…
But I also think the games with performance audits would end with the EFF Performance Audit pledge, the LIE-man initiative, and Gov’r-elect Rossi…
One thing that us troopers have missed is that Rossi announced this at: “Hawthorne Funeral Home and Memorial Park”!
My suspicion is that Eyman will become the alter ego of the Rossi regime, the Dino folk in drag. I alwys thought it was mass R folk who voted for his stuff, and some Donocrat” Dems. Small govt. stuff and screw the Dem contol of Olympia, west vs east, and anti BIG BAD SEATTTLE stuff —-all very R.
Most of his latest signture drives have failed, and the number is now even greater for sucess, since the formula is per cent of the last Gov. race, and this one push that threshold up. This audit issue will be hard to engage the piblic, kids atre no at risk from slot proliferation/corruption and the family does not save 50.00 in car tabs.
Can’t smart political folk turn him to good use……like productive public policy? Offer him a paying job? So he pays himself, who cares. Where are the free lobbyists or free political consultants…..paper work problems at the PDC, whoopee ding dong…little like non-issue Clinton blow jobs…
Comment by Bob from Boeing— 12/12/04 @ 5:52 pm
Bob, you respectfully don’t know what you’re talking about as to the PDC complaint…
Eyman has failed to keep separate contributions to I-864 and his personal compensation fund, Eyman lied about the true status of I-864 and donations to NOT just to his own donors but also to the free press & the general public, and Eyman failing to report donations & expenditures – period.
You see – this is a little different than Wilygate/Monicagate…
Oh and FYI: I have NEVER voted for an Eyman initiative. But I voted Rossi (you’ve heard the speel before).
Maybe should should read the complaint…
Let me refine my PDC – thesis. Two leaders of my favorite Seattle political folk always had PDC problems. late filings, etc. Most people have bureaucrcy problems, ie. they register to vote and go to the polls and the bureaucrats do not count their votes….I pay my fine, the hold does not fall off from my liscense…talk to builders trying to get the paper work all right…. on and on…. my point is that the PDC stuff resonates with the political elites and no much elsewhere. Eyman, is a hired gun, whose star is fading……but abitious and hungry, bears watching.
I will read the complaint, thanks. I have worked very actively on a couple of initives, failed at the ballot, so I know just how hard it really is. Some begrudging respect for the crook. The romance of the old West outlaw, tilting at the system.
I will find his e-mail and give him a list of good issues to work on…try to make him a reformer….media would eat it up, Eyman cluching his litle dog crying on camera, mea culpa….bucket of Wahington apples in the foreground….
Bob from Boeing- a lot more than R’s voted for Eyman crap, because there aren’t as many R’s as there are votes for some of his idiocies- and, believe it or not, a lot of R’s vote against him.
What gets me is the number of public employees I know who vote for his crap. They wanted the cut in car tabs, the cap on property taxes, and were senior enough that they didn’t think cuts would hurt them… Now they bellyache about workload.
They are like the 20% of UFCW members who shop at Wal-Mart.
Even liberals, public employees, and union members can be very short-sighted.
I dont think tPDC cannot put anyone in jail, only levy fines. If they refer a case to the AG, then you can go to jail.
Comment by Angry Voter — 12/12/04 @ 7:10 pm
Well, the complaint lays the groundwork for alleging mail fraud – which if you read or watched Grisham’s “The Firm” you know is a FEDERAL felony w/ a 5 year penalty…
As the person who actually wrote the complaint, I suggest you read between the lines and think RICO.
All the political stuff aside, Eyman has been deliberately defrauding contributors to Voters Want More Choices, by claiming the money would be used solely to qualify initiatives for the ballot, when in fact, tens of thousands of dollars a year are diverted to pay for his the activities of his personal compensation PAC, Help Us Help Taxpayers. It’s a shell game whose end result is that he has been compensating himself from initiative campaign contributions.
Hell… all I do is file a joke initiative, and a Democratic AG sues me. If I got caught doing accounting shit like Tim, they’d throw the book at me.
OK you democrats have been pumping the “every vote should count” theory. You guys want this vote to count if it was hoofmarks on the Mr Ed show, you want it to count if it was a “hanging chad”, you want it to count if it looked like the guy might have been dreaming of sweet chrissy in bed the night before…cool. Now you want to cut down Eyeman, a pinnicle of democracy. I am not crazy about his financial arrangements personally, but he gives us choices…he makes our vote COUNT! We need Tim there, we need the initiative prosess. I-695 did more for this state than all of the governors combined for the last 25 years! Face it it isnt Eyeman you libs are scared of it is Mr. and MRS. Washington voter!
Comment by Chuck — 12/13/04 @ 1:08 am
Chuck, I am part of the “count every LEGAL vote” chorus and yes, we’ve found ballots that were to be counted. But I abhor the litigation that today’s hearing brought about.
You respectfully need YOU, not LIE-man and his crooked initiatives, to participate in the initiative process! I’m not scared of the voters – I’m scared of the mainstream media/MSM not giving us equal time to LIE-man to rebut his lies unless he preys on a minority (like 892) and turning him into a celebrity. I’m not scared of the voters – I’m scared of LIE-man telling them 1,001 lies and putting things in small print that’ll do serious damage. I’m not scared of the voters – I’m scared of initiatives that declare war on our community approved based on lies and misinformation.
BTW: I would bet good money you voted for Rob McKenna for State AG and if you’re from King County, for Councilman. Guess who was against I-695 and most of Eyman’s other tax-cut initiatives… AG-elect Rob McKenna!
P.S. Those ballots – well, there were seven in Whatcom, for starters. Three for my man Dino, two for Gregoire, one for Bennett and one with no vote.
Hey, Chuck – here’s something else for you to stew on:
“Democracy is a difficult kind of government. It requires the highest qualities of selfÂ-discipline, restraint, a willingness to make commitments and sacrifices for the general interest, and it also requires knowledge.” The late John Fitzgerald Kennedy…
FLASH- remember Supreme Court hearing today, 1:30 pm. Will be live on C-Span and Cable Northwest. —Today.
KING CO NEWS- Read ths am Times. Ballot trashing blues for Dean Logan and his cast of ballot throwers. Threw the wrong one out. King County Councilman, Larry Phillips had his ballot thrown out.
Of course, a perfect long time voter, for you R’ s, no idiot who can’t handle the task. Not clear exactly why, but it was an absentee and the over zealous Logan (and staff) has had his shit called.
Phillips is very upset, called Logan, and Logan quoted in Times, “they will review other ballot like his and submit them to the canvassing board as they seem to have been wrongly rejected”. (close quote)—- well, well.
Protect Every Voter Alliance seems to making headway in King County. Wonder if Dems will add his affidavit to the case—-REMEMBR OUR BLOGGER GURU, incarnate Golda, spotted the proviso that Sec of State Reed issued that, yes, counties can indeed correct mistakes, here we are.
Larry Phillips is trying to break into the foreground in local politics to run for higher office. All you Count Every Vote folks email him and tell him to go for it. His voice will be heard- He is de facto one of Logans’ bosses.
Good break for the Dems and Chrissie.
For those intereted in mystical omens — Christ ine- might be our Gov.
I don’t believe in omens, Bob.
But I support what Dean Logan’s doing. It’s the ONLY right thing to do.
I take a certain care in signing my absentee, knowing it will be checked for a match. Did Councilman Philips? Just because a voter is registered does NOT mean that it is automatic that the signature will match. The reason for checking signatures is to prevent someone else from casting a voter’s absentee.
And if the Councilman’s signature didn’t match, he woulkd have received notification (it was only provisionals NOT receiving notification). Did he NOT respond in a timely manner? The Councilman is obviously capable of having responded-
What is the rest of the story?
And Chuck- there is a reason that not a single Republican budget-writer- for the past decade- has anything but disdain for Tim Eyman.
He screwed I-601, then screwed up his efforts to “restore” it. That “surplus” he kept prattling on about- that was the state reserve fund- the savings account for rainy days that Republicans had worked for two decades to establish and build up. The media has no clue about responsible budgetting in the public sector, and fed Eyman’s lies out to the public. The damage continues to grow…
Then he undercut property tax reform. His initiative passed- are your property tax bills lower? But his initiative passed- and he got his, you got the shaft.
It isn’t just liberals who are fighting Eyman, and the effects of his initiatives. Small business is out there facing b&o tax increases in the cities, to cover the damage from Eyman. That doesn’t help the business climate one bit.
But march on with Eyman, Chuck. March on…
Don’t ask me about Phillips voter intercourse with the elections dept. Call him.
Sound a litte stressed Jim K- and the Hawks won.
Will this make a difference in King County – YES, already has. How large? Dean Logan.says sending this and other ballots that might have mistakenly been disqualified to the canvassing board.
This recount was never about just statistics, but the proverbial Wild Cards as well. This might be a big one, will try some sources and see how many ballots are now in play on this separate little gambit.
Very mystical, Chist ine – elected on Chirst mas eve……angels guiding? And a thread about the anti – Christ.
Bob- I wasn’t asking you- I was asking the rhetorical question- what is the rest of the story…
This story leaves me more concerned about Phillips’ competence than it does Dean Logan’s…
But no stress here, Bob- you are reading too many tea leaves.
Goldy- perhaps we could have the Snark use his magic excel program to audit Tim…
Yes, the Snark is obsessing again, recomputing the spread to prove he’s right…
His insecurity level is so high, it is pathetic- as is his math.
to jim king –No, use liquid tea concentrate. NEW STUFF- King 5 announcing at noon that King County has also found an unknown number of ballots never counted – no number announced yet. Another Wild Card?
Phillips says he is a perfect voter, voted absentee for the first time, as he was somewhere else working for Kerry on election day. My uninformed specualtion is they did not re-file his card when they set him up for an absenteee. Good voter card on file, intercourse with voter- ref absentee, card not on file-admin error, ballot tossed.
Oh, yeah, people voting for 30 years are suddendly idiot voters, incompotent, come on Jim K……the whole system is supposed to protect voters, not throw out their ballots because of either bureauctaic error or arrogance.
Bob- So why did he not respond to notice his absentee wasn’t being counted? Lordy, Bob, I forgot to sign an absentee a couple of years ago, in a school election (and I’ve been voting almost thirty years), but got my notice and got the signature in.
I’m not saying there wasn’t an error at King County- in fact, they are going back and doing some rechecking, and great for them. I’ve heard it is 561 ballots that canvassing board will review signature decisions- but that doesn’t excuse the Councilman’s failure to follow up, either.
The system is set up to have safeguards, and some of those safeguards depend on the voter.
And as inspired by a comment on KING 5 News about the race that never ends, our themse song:
This is the race that never ends
It jusy goes on and on my friends
Someone started counting it not knowing what it was
And they’ll go on counting it forever just because…
Goldy- laugh it up- The Rapture came, but the neo-cons are here in hell with us!
Oh, yes, 561 NEW King Co votes- hear the fatal howling sounds over on the sound of ripping and renting site.
Sure beats soap opera by the nines.
Ah Jim King, no my property taxes didnt go down…but let me tell you what they did, they STABILIZED. They dont go up by 2/3 every other year at the whim of elected officials. As far as I-695, it was a godsend, as far as the local tax problems, if the voters held the polititions feet to the fire they would start living in their means…(like the rest of us). As I said I dont like some of Tims financial arrangements, but when he comes up with something good Ill get behind it, such as the slot machine initiative…everyone should be equal (not just native americans). But if you think of it this way, the governor we have had the past 8 years has done NOTHING for the state whatsoever, and how much has he bilked out of the taxpayer? I suppose it was nice of us to give him unlimited trips to China to visit his relatives. (oh I forgot, he sold 20 tons of apples…that helped us a lot, I can buy apples for $.29 a pound). By his comparison Eyeman gives the taxpayer a bargain! By the way, I choose not to finance Eyeman, but I support him when I agree with him by signature and vote…
Yeah, well that’s no justification Chuck.
*”Ah Jim King, no my property taxes didnt go down…but let me tell you what they did, they STABILIZED” – no, they went down and now we’ve got local government continiously under the knife
*”They dont go up by 2/3 every other year at the whim of elected officials.” – Goldy has done some research on this and in fact your taxes have gone down in the past TEN years – mostly WITHOUT Eyman’s help… you can go to http://www.horsesass.org/index.php?p=53 for more…
*”As far as I-695, it was a godsend, as far as the local tax problems, if the voters held the polititions feet to the fire they would start living in their means…(like the rest of us).” Well, there’s better ways to go about it. One of the state’s most activist politicians on the matter – namely AG-elect and King County Councilman Rob McKenna – was stridently against it, saying “It would be a huge hit” in the 3 July 1999 Seattle Times. So was ex-King County Councilman Chris Vance.
*”As I said I dont like some of Tims financial arrangements, but when he comes up with something good Ill get behind it, such as the slot machine initiative…everyone should be equal (not just native americans).” Well, that’s rather misinformed. Here’s why: a) Vote for an Eyman initiative, that fuels Eyman itself for that’s his raison d’etre. You know it, I know it. Also, I-892 was taking away from the tribes their ability to have a future – and we’ve already had this debate as a state.
*”if you think of it this way, the governor we have had the past 8 years has done NOTHING for the state whatsoever, and how much has he bilked out of the taxpayer? I suppose it was nice of us to give him unlimited trips to China to visit his relatives. (oh I forgot, he sold 20 tons of apples…that helped us a lot, I can buy apples for $.29 a pound).” I tend to agree with that and I voted appropiately on 2 November for the man who wouldn’t come to the defense of this kind of behavior – that is how you deal with these kind of problems. NOT cutting vital services from the poor and the disabled such as mass transit, health care, education, etc.
*”By his comparison Eyeman gives the taxpayer a bargain!” A bargain? Want to say that again?!? A bargain that ferry fares have skyrocketed, that mass transit is being cut WHILE going up, a bargain that roads are going bad and therefore more wear and tear on my family’s 2 cars? I could go on…
*”By the way, I choose not to finance Eyeman, but I support him when I agree with him by signature and vote…” Bad news, YOU are financing Eyman when you sign and vote for his initiatives. His donors use your support to justify funding him and allow him to get away with his reprehensible behavior.
OVERALL: You need to respectfully look beyond the claptrap fed you and look at who’s writing the intiative, who’s funding the initiative and why. You may also want to read the fine print of an initiative and read some editorials for and against before you make up your mind.
NOT cutting vital services from the poor and the disabled such as mass transit, health care, education, etc.
*”By his comparison Eyeman gives the taxpayer a bargain!” A bargain? Want to say that again?!? A bargain that ferry fares have skyrocketed, that mass transit is being cut WHILE going up, a bargain that roads are going bad and therefore more wear and tear on my family’s 2 cars? I could go on…
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Where is it written that I should pay fare for a man to take a boat to his mansion on Fox Island? If I choose to ride a ferry I will expect to pay the full fare and not ride on your back to get there. If public transportation was as efficient as it is touted to be, give it 5 years to make itself self sufficient. These programs for the poor I assume you are speaking of are things like…$150.00 to haul a developmentally disabled person from Greater Lakes for therapy…ONE time….it goes on and on…
Comment by Chuck— 12/13/04 @ 10:53 pm
You seem to neglect the roads I mentioned earlier… and on that thought: because state ferries ARE state highways (I can cite the RCW if you’d like) that improve the buisness climate and keep the state together – since you profit, you should be asked to help pay some of the costs (just as WSF must strive for efficiencies). Unless you believe in a user-pay society, that is.
Public transportation is meant to clear up the roads and help transport the disabled and as far as the $150 for “Greater Lakes” – I’d like more details before I comment further.
Chuck… then I suppose you wouldn’t be opposed to toll roads, and perhaps a gasoline surcharge tax to help defray the costs (and widows & orphans benefits) of an Iraq war whose primary motive is the defense of our oil interests?
We don’t get to line-item veto where our tax dollars go. Live with it.
With the money we pay for gasoline tax we should have streets paved with gold, other states do it a lot cheaper and do a better AND faster job of it, as for the Greater Lakes trip, you can call pierce county transit, they sponge up the money then vend the job out to Transpo or Yellow Cab…I know this as fact because my brothers wife was the ones that took the rides…I just watched and STEAMED… As for toll roads, Ill tell you what, take the gas tax off and charge me what it costs to drive my car for the day, Ill pay, but take that charge off of the property tax as well. While we are at it, the Port of Tacoma (or seattle for that matter) There is NO reason that a port that sends and recieves goods cannot support itself. It is not a matter of picking and choosing, it is a matter of a VERY fat bloated state and local government! I want the government to spend my money with the same efficiency that I do, not like a Louisiana hay ride…
Comment by Chuck— 12/14/04 @ 12:08 am
I agree with you that we have serious gov’t waste and again, I voted appropiately on 2 November. I also vote for state legislators that understand these kind of issues. I think you and I share many concerns and gripes – but we need to be careful how we go about dealing with them… rather than using slash & burn Eymanism. There respectfully is a better way. For, as Goldy said, “We don’t get to line-item veto where our tax dollars go.” That’s why we have state legislators and a State Auditor and letters to the editor and public comment…
And how many years did we wait for a governor as well as a legislature to cut automotive taxes? They all kind of tounge in cheek said “we know the tax is too high” as they added to them. No the initiative is many times what we need to put them back to sharpening their pencils and comming up with better budgets. A government should fear the people, not the other way around. And by the way I-892 said nowhere that the tribes couldnt have their casino, it just gave others the chance to do the same…or would you rather lock up the state of Washington for Texaco only gasoline as well?
Only Libertarians like you look at I-892 and see it as an initiative about fair competition. To 60% of voters who rejected it, it was about putting slot machines in neighborhoods.
Personally, I would have vociferously opposed 892 regardless of who the sponsor was. This initiative was dangerous and irresponsible, and would have been terrible for Washington. It’s bad enough that we have explosion of card rooms and tribal casinos… we don’t need to make the problem any worse.
Comment by Goldy— 12/14/04 @ 8:20 am
And that’s why YOU should be our governor!
This guy Chuck is so ignorant about the 892 issue – I’m going to let his last answer stand to show his ignorance. He thinks it was the magic bullet… and that you and I couldn’t have a casino. Bullcrap.
Thanks Goldy for putting words into my mouth. Chuck respectfully doesn’t know what he’s talking about as to I-892…
Every fool out there thinks that if it had past, then every guy out there with an extra bedroom would have started a casino…use your head! We still would have had local laws and codes…not to stop gambling but to restrict certain buisinesses to certain areas. Topless dancing is legal, but we dont have nightclubs everywhere. Ever been to Nevada and picked up a newspaper? They dont have the financial difficulties we do at all. Their problem is where to spend all the money. Even when you go into the “heavy” gambling areas, the areas are clean, safe, and the kind of area you would take the kids out to eat (not to mention the cheap food).
Chuck, don’t you lecture me on what I-892 did or did not do. I understood that initiative and it’s impact better than Eyman.
I-892 allowed slot machines at any facility with a gambling license. That included over 2000 bars, restaurants and bowling alleys currently selling pull tabs and punch boards. It would have dramatically expanded access to the most addictive form of gambling by put 18,225 slot machines into hundreds of neighborhood business districts scattered throughout the state.
You comments about “heavy” gambling areas are also not supported by the statistics. When “community based gaming” comes into communities, crime, bankruptcies, domestic abuse and divorce rates go up. Also… other businesses close. Putting a handful of slots into a couple bars in my local Columbia City does not turn it into a tourist destination, it just draws local consumer dollars from other economic activities. There is absolutely no study that shows this kind of legalized gambling functions as an economic development tools.
And finally, the whole fairness issue — that commercial card rooms should be able to compete with the tribes– was a fraud. I-892 created a new monopoly… the 84 currently licensed card rooms… because new card rooms and other gambling licensees would not be eligible to have slots. How much you want to bet five years later there wouldn’t have been legislation or an initiative adding more slots to address this inequity?
Killing I-892 was a no-brainer. A large majority of voters are opposed to expanding gambling, and all the No campaign had to do was tell the simple truth… I-892 dramatically expanded gambling by putting 18,225 slot machines into our neighborhoods.
The only reason it failed was the TONS of money dumped against it by the tribes…there was no logical or fair reason to vote it down…I saw a “teacher” on TV and in a pamplet saying what is this teaching our children…give us all a break and keep your children out of card rooms and casinos….
Chuck, I’m not going to pretend that the money didn’t help get the No message out there, but you fail to grasp why the No campaign was so easy. They didn’t have to convince voters that putting slot machines into our neighborhoods was a bad idea… all they had to do was convince voters that I-892 put slot machines into our neighborhoods.
(And by the way, I fixed a typo in my previous comment. 892 would have put slots into 2000 bars, restaurants and bowling alleys, not 200.)
The polling data on this issue has been consistent for years, and was reflected in the vote on I-892. There’s a reason why Eyman never mentioned slot machines in any of his literature, and instead tried to sell the initiative simply as a tax cut (or getting even with Indians)… he knew that if voters understood the true nature of the initiative, it would fail.
If you ever heard me debate Tim on the radio on this initiative, you’d understand why I took such pains to ignore the softballs he lobbed at me, and stay on message: I-892 puts slot machines in our neighborhoods. I-892 was defeated by the truth.
Im thinking I did hear you debate Tim on KVI, and if it is the debate I am thinking of it wasnt even a debate, Tim was all over the guy like a wet diaper…