The Iron’s folk are touting a new SurveyUSA poll showing David Irons leading Ron Sims 46 percent to 43 percent, with 7 percent going to Green Party candidate Gentry Lange, and 4 percent undecided. Good for them. Tout it all they want. Maybe they’ll knock some sense into the heads of the stupid, arrogant fucks on my side of the political spectrum who’d rather send a message than… um… win.
So to all you proto-Naderites out there, I’d like to take this opportunity to invite you to pull your heads out of your asses and join me in the real world, where believe it or not, there really is a difference between Democrats and Republicans. You want to elect more progressive candidates? Then roll up your sleeves and do some heavy lifting by joining organizations like Progressive Majority in recruiting, training and supporting progressive candidates at the local level, so that we can build a progressive farm team from which future political superstars will rise. But if you’re just too lazy to do what it takes to win… or you really want to hand King County over to a bush league Bush-Republican like Irons, then you go ahead and cast your precious protest vote… just like the Republicans want you to do.
See, this race really is too close to be either complacent or stupid, and while I’d still rather be in Sims’ shoes right now, Irons could definitely win if enough Democrats and moderate independents don’t take him seriously. And an Irons victory would be a travesty, not just for the county, but for Democrats… giving the GOP an undeserved advantage heading into the 2006 election season and beyond.
So let this poll be fair warning, we have a choice this November between two candidates, Sims and Irons: an experienced executive who shepherded the county through tough economic times, putting it on its most secure financial footing in its history… versus a pathological liar with a fictionalized resume who will surely serve the gambling and building industry interests who finance him. You may not be happy with that choice, but that’s the choice you have.
And to my friends in the Green Party, whose ideology I mostly embrace, I remind you that the blood of 2000 American soldiers and untold thousands of innocent Iraqis is on your hands, not mine. I think I speak for many of my fellow progressives in saying that you lost our respect in 2000 when the pigheaded Nader campaign gave the White House to George Bush…. but should Lange prove the difference in the county executive race, this time you will earn my contempt. For in the immortal words of the first Green president:
“Fool me once, shame on… shame on you. Fool me… you can’t get fooled again.”
Don’t get fooled again: a vote for Lange is a vote for Irons.
Goldy,
I thought some of your readers might appreciate the video of the first Green President (here) making that statement.
Goldy, shame on you for trotting out that tired old anti-democratic trope about the 2000 election. The Democratic candidates don’t own my vote, they have to earn it just like everyone else. And as for blaming the Iraqi disaster on anyone who didn’t vote for the disaster occupying the White House, all I have to say is “Fuck you!”
I guess you really are a party hack after all.
The margin of error for this question was 4.4%.
GeoCrackr @ 2
“I guess you really are a party hack after all.”
I’m glad you’ve seen the light. If SoundPolitics is the Irons campaign web site, Goldy has become the Sims campaign web site. Does that mean Goldy will have to report a inkind contribution to the Sims campaign?
by Goldy, 10/18/2005, 5:51 PM
“See, this race really is too close to be either complaisant or stupid..”
I guess the poll reflects that Sims has moved too far to the right for the hard core lefty crowd. Although I’m skeptical, and the margin of error could put Lange’s support anywhere from 2.6% to 11.4%. It’ll be interesting if they come out with a poll with similar results for Lange close to election day.
BTW, I assume you meant “complacent”.
GeoCrackr,
Yes, a tired complaint by Goldy. But it is true. Of course if all the Libertarians had voted for Bush, who knows! :)
As for Sims, I would think his support amongst “greens” is as good as ever. I fear where Ron is hemmoraging worse is from the tired and scared right wing of the Democratic Party and dem “leaners”.
These folks have been loyal throughout good times and bad, but are getting squeezed by the tilt of the economic table to favor the rich. This is creating a society of high uncertainty and unease, and the GOP holds out simple solutions like “blame government”, or “ID predicts Terri Schaivo will grow a brain, trust us”.
Sadly, these folks are starting to buy it.
Until Democrats act like Democrats, the Greens will be the only real choice. Ron Sims brough Diebold into King County… Ron Sims needs to be replaced. I’m sorry if you think that the Democrats deserve the Green votes, that’s just going to keep loosing your team the game, set, and match.
And let’s look at the Track Record shall we… Ohio, challenged by David Cobb, not John (I will count every vote) Kerry. Every time Democrats make this tired argument, they will give Greens more power. Your party is dying, not because of the Greens, but because you are not countering the corporate take over of everything we as Americans have been taught to believe in.
Ron won his last run by 70% or so, he was at 52% before I entered the race. Let me repeat, Ron lost 18% before I even entered the race. Now I am getting a small 7% of the vote, and you are going to trot out that tired song and dance. Well it’s not gonna work. But I tell you what would. Ron speaking out against Diebold, against voting fraud, and against the corporate fraud that passes as politics these days. If Ron spoke out against Diebold as strongly as he speaks out against Wallmart, I’d never have entered this race. But the real story here is that he doesn’t.
There’s a perfect They Might Be Giants lyric that sums up why the Green party runs candidates like me in this race, and it goes like this:
“Can’t shake the Devil’s hand and say you’re only kidding, This is where the party ends”.
Now Irons, I’m no big fan of David Irons, he voted to bring in the Diebold funded Election Center, just like the rest of the council. But at least he’s talking about reform. And when he gets in and does as little as Ron, then I’ll be his biggest critic as well.
Go Greens!!! Stand your ground!! Kick those evil oil companies right out of the state!! Every one, including the gas stations and distribution centers!! Blow them up!! Go Greens!! Dean!! Nader!! Marx!! Go!!!
No trucks!! No SUVs!! No nukes!! No drilling!! No windmills off Kennedyland!! No oil spills!! No oil companies!! No logging!! Save the spotted owl in the “old growth KMart sign”!! Go Greens!!
Yet again, the Dems take for granted a portion of their base. You don’t believe in free and open elections. You believe in scare tactics. African-Americans had better vote Dem or the GOP will bind them back into slavery. Greens had better vote Dem because Greens have no chance of winning and if Irons wins he’ll… he’ll… fail to recycle!! (which, totally OT, often ends up in landfills because recycling isn’t cost-effective)
Goldy, why don’t you Dems actually put up what you are FOR instead of campaigning as “not Republicans?”
This is scary. If, given the environment, the republican has the lead, it may be unwinnable.
What are these folks thinking to want Republican leadership at this point in time.
It’s the same mentality that favors I-912. Just inexplicable all around. But not to be underestimated.
All you on the left who are serious about global warming and the environment need to vote green. The planet can not wait any longer.
Gentry @6,
If Irons wins it will be too late to criticize him… and if you think we’ll somehow have fairer elections under his watch, I don’t know what your smoking. Meanwhile, you malign Ron Sims using the GOP’s dishonest talking points, and you somehow think that makes an argument for change?
I am certainly no fan of Diebold, but we just had an unprecedented trial on the accuracy and integrity of King County Elections, and the case was dismissed with prejudice. Meanwhile, put the GOP in charge and dollars to doughnuts one of their first reforms will be to purge the voter rolls in minority districts and college campuses, just like the old Democratic machine used to do in my hometown of Philadelphia. There are a lot of words you can use to describe Ron Sims, but “corrupt” is not one of them.
And finally… the Greens will NEVER be anything but a marginal fringe party as long as they focus on high profile seats instead of putting all their efforts into the smaller local races where they actually have a snowball’s chance of building a base. I know that’s frustrating, because it will take decades, and perhaps you’ll never personally see the promised land, but the only shortcuts are real reforms like IRV and proportional voting… and you’re sure as hell not going to get that by constantly trying to fuck the Democratic Party for not bowing to your inflexible ideals.
Sorry to be so harsh, because I’m sure we are in near agreement on most issues of the day… but welcome to the real world. The difference between me and you is that I’m focused on stealing the party back, whereas you’re focused on destroying it. In the meanwhile, I’ll just have to settle for the candidate best qualified to run King County… and that’s Ron Sims.
Thomas the Tankengine @ 10
In this case, people are either just “sending a message” to Sims to shape up or, if they actually vote that way, are voting for “not Sims.” Irons hasn’t been overwhelmingly inspiring or charismatic. I would bet that a lot of people simply feel that it is time for a change. People don’t like tension and controversy as an actual part of their lives (as opposed to watching a train wreck or Hollywood marriage) and Ron Sims is the posterboy for tension and controversy — even if the words spilling from his mouth aren’t self-serving political lies. He SOUNDS like a politician now.
Mark @ 13
Irons has run an outsider campaign as an insider.
And he has taken tons from developers…his loyalties are plain as day.
Sims may not be great…but Irons is truly a puppet of the builders. Is that really best for us?
The Greens and Ralph Nader brought us a federal judiciary, including the Supreme Court, that will be dominated by right-wing nuts for the next 25 years. And all the rights that will be lost by Americans and rights gained by the corporations because of that election are gifts from the Greens and Ralph. Ralph’s absurd argument that Gore and Bush are basically the same is being disproven every day in the courts.
All the greens have to do is get a charismatic guy with a lot of money to run. That would do more for the environmental movement then trying to build at the local level. You need to think big. You know sort of like a green Ross Perot.
Ron Sims is a Liberal, and proud of it. He also believes that the government must balance it’s books. Look at the history of his budget submittals. No gimmicks, and plenty of cuts.
His priorities are human services and the environment. If your interests are global warming, and you do not support him, you are ignorant of his positions.
Irons is simply running as “not Sims”. Is that enough?
15
In 2000 you would be correct. The outcome would have been the same in 2004 regardless of the greens or Nader.
Goldy, I agree with your punch line but think that your rhetorical approach was pretty stupid. Instead of winning hearts and minds you seem more interested in unnecessarily alienating Greens.
As a case in point, you aren’t going to get a fractured Left to come to agreement any time soon as to whether the Democratic Party is worth salvaging. Nor are you going to get Naderites to take the blame for Bush.
The best that you could have done was to convince Green-leaning voters that it would have be in their best interest in this particular race to vote for Sims.
With all due respect, you blew it.
go greens….give em hell. At least they stand for something, besides a poll, and a theme song.
I don’t begrudge anyone voting for a third party. No party owns anyone’s vote. And, at least some voters for third party candidates wouldn’t vote at all, if they had to choose between the R or D candidates. And who knows, one of these third parties might grow into an influential movement — or even a major party. Quite possibly America will be in the market for a new party to replace the R’s after the neocon revolution implodes.
This county needs a corporate pig factory in it to wake up to what Reps. mean by “private property rights”. Of course by then it’ll be too late.
Thomas @ 14
And Sims is a puppet of… and almost every damn politician (except maybe a Perot) is a “puppet” of the folks who pay for their campaigns.
Steve @ 15
Man, you’re dribbling out Kool-Aid as fast as you can sip it!
Roger @ 21
If the Dems can try to come back from foot-in-mouth disease, droning-monotonitis and perpetual implosion, the GOP can push aside the NeoCons with more traditional Republicans. There won’t be anyone “replacing” the GOP any time soon.
Goldy,
Where have I used the Republican’s talking points? Is the GOP talking about Publicly Owned Open Sourced Software? Is the GOP talking about precinct level random hand-counts? For that matter, are the Dems? What about Felony voter purge lists, where’s the Democratic party working on that issue? David Irons? Nowhere.
My talking points are my own, I wrote them, I researched them, I posted them on my website. So if you want to disagree with me, fine. But saying that I’m dishonest, where do you get that?
And I seem to recall sending you the press release racking the council over the coals for hiring the corporate front group called the Election Center. Perfect attack point showing the shallow depth to which Irons is using election reform as an issue, while voting for corporate front groups to “audit” the election. I attack David Irons, and Ron Sims everytime I get a chance to debate them.
The difference between me and you Goldy is that I get out there every day and every night and put my name, my face, and my reputation speaking the truth as I see it. Whereas you throw barbs from a computer… essentially armchair quarterbacking. I have worked to expose the corporate controlled voting machines nationally, and locally for several years now. I am working on building the Green party, and have no desire to destroy the Dems. The Dems are destroying themselves just fine, they don’t need my help.
Finally, I will add this. If you’d get your head out of the sand and look at what I see every night, people who are wanting to vote against Ron Sims, planned on voting for Irons, and now have a choice so they are instead going to vote for me. Every single night I run into luke warm Irons supporters who are basically tired of Sims, and aren’t blindly partisan like yourself. So while you argue I’m “stealing” votes from Ron, the reality I encounter in the really real world is that I’m actually giving progressives and independents an option outside of the partisan bickering, and an option that isn’t David Irons.
But please Goldy, back up your statement and show me where I’ve used “Republican” talking points.
You have got my vote Gentry. Well said.
Gentry Lange @ 25:
There’s nothing “progressive” or “independent” about having David Irons as County Executive. If that becomes the result of your candidacy, then all your good intentions can pave the road to hell that you will so richly deserve.
Wow! The “Sam Reed: all 39 counties have dual registrations” thread now has 420 comments! Is that a new record for HorsesAss, Goldy?
Mr. Rabbit @ 28:
What is so praiseworthy about you and Josef displaying your mutual addiction to blogging?
Who said it was praiseworthy? Frankly, I find Josef’s obsession with getting in the last word a bit unsettling … it’s evidence of a possible mental disorder.
First of all let me say much I reject the “Spoiler” effect and the way that the Democratic Party has used it to take advantage of progressive voters for decades.
The governorship, both state legislative houses and the Supreme Court in Washington State are controlled by one party: The Democrats.
If they wanted to change the system so that candidates with only a minority of the electorate’s support would not be elected to office, they would have. They could do it overnight.
They could support systems like Proportional Representation and Instant Run-Off Voting and eliminate the spoiler effect alltogether.
But they do not. Because they like the system just the way it is. Under the “spoiler” system, they use fear of a villain to brush aside their own actions and flaws. Voting for the lesser evil, we’ve gotten worse Democrats, not better ones.
Democrats who voted for NAFTA, the PATRIOT Act, the war in Iraq, CAFTA, who have rolled over for the worse Republicans when they’ve illegally purged voters from the rolls and used intimidation tactics to prevent them from voting.
It was the Green Party that provided the voter lists to the ACLU of Florida in 2000 to allow them to sue the state. It was the Green Party that kicked off the Ohio recount in 2004 while Kerry was waving the white flag.
By continuing to vote for them, you are putting your stamp of approval on everything they do that betrays your values, because the alternative is even worse.
I prefer to set my bar a little bit higher than that.
I myself am a former Democrat and I can describe the experience to you like this: it’s like standing in a line fighting for things you don’t quite believe in because you’ve been led to believe that if you wait long enough, they’ll get around to fighting for what YOU believe in.
After a while, you realize that the line doesn’t move.
That every four years a progressive will be able to fall in love with a Eugene McCarthy or a Dennis Kucinich or a Jesse Jackson or a Jerry Brown. You’ll fight your ass off for them, you’ll brush off comments about throwing your vote away and the ever-so-popular “I love him, but he can’t win”. And then you’ll be ignored, marginalized, defeated, watch the winning candidate take NONE of your issues, and be expected to “grow up”, fall in line and support whatever tall, vanilla, inoffensive factory model they’ve rolled out as the “perfect candidate”.
If I had to do that every four years, I would go insane.
As Gentry said above, Ron Sims has coasted to re-election twice before with a very comfortable margin of victory. If this race is close, it’s his own damn fault.
To have people like Goldy speak to me with such a sense of arrogant entitlement to my vote is the greatest insult of all.
Elected officials do not own my vote. Ron Sims does not own my vote. David Irons does not own my vote. Gentry Lange does not own my vote.
My vote is GIVEN when it is EARNED. My vote is my voice in a democracy. It is my balance on the power of those who make policies that affect my life. It is my only power.
And the candidate you are trying to scare me into voting for, Ron Sims, would sell that power away to people who can make it disappear with the touch of a button or steal it and give it to someone else.
And that I will never vote for. Will never support. Gentry isn’t perfect. No candidate ever is. But what he ISN’T is crooked and has a near religious convinction in the sanctity of my vote and for that he’s EARNED my vote.
I serve as Tabling Coordinator for the Seattle Greens. I will tell you that I’ve talked face to face about this race with hundreds of people this year. More than you have, I’ll wager, Goldy.
And I’ll tell you what I’ve seen.
People are pissed off at Ron. They’re pissed about the Critical Areas Ordinance. They’re pissed that he’s playing “hear no evil, see no evil” with Election irregularies. They’re pissed about Southwest Airlines. And these people that I’m talking about are not Republicans, they’re Democrats.
I’ve been thanked at least thirty times for having a Green in this race, because these people had written off Sims and were disgusted with the idea of voting for a Republican. Gentry is giving them an alternative.
I’ve seen Democrats openly talking about voting for David Irons because they want Sims out and a new Dem in four years. Gentry is giving them an alternative.
And the fact that he got 7% with NO MEDIA coverage should give you an idea of just how pissed these people are.
Let me tell you why my vote for Gentry isn’t wasted, because instead of trying to fix what can’t be fixed, I’ll building a new alternative.
Everything we have and now consider the bare minimum for a just and decent society — minimum wage laws, unemployment insurance, women getting the right to vote, the abolition of slavery, social security, public education, the direct election of U.S. Senators — were all won because of third party activists.
When these proposals first appeared — in the platforms of parties like the Labor Greenback Party, the Socialist Party and the Progressive Party — they were adamantly opposed by both Democrat and Republican alike.
It was only buy voting for these parties and them gaining momentum that the two major parties adopted their issues as their own and put them into law to protect their own power.
The most recent example is Bill Clinton’s focus on a balanced budget and the GOP’s “Contract with America” that were taken almost verbatim from the platform of a Mr. Ross Perot.
The Greens have over 220 elected officials in this country, including the Seattle School Board President, Brita Butler-Wall and fellow Board director, Sally Soriano. We have John Eder, a State Representative in Maine who was just re-elected with 56% of the vote. We have Jason West, the mayor of New Paltz, NY who forced the issue of marriage equality into the national spotlight. And we have Matt Gonzalez who nearly won mayor of San Francisco last year with 46% of the vote after his Democratic opponent outspent him 10-1.
And we did that with elections laws that are written to exclude us or bury us. We did that with a fraction of the money of the major parties — and none of the corporate money. And we did it with people like yourself, Goldy, spewing the same fear-mongering, tired and anti-democratic drivel about wasted votes and spoilers.
Far from a wasted vote, a vote for a third party can in fact be the most powerful vote one can cast.
All the while no one is stopping Sims from taking votes BACK from Gentry by adopting pieces. He has every right to do what FDR did with Socialist Norman Thomas’ platform and steal his entire program and make it his own with The New Deal.
But Sims doesn’t. Because he thinks he owns my voice and my vote. I’m sorry, Ron, but the only vote you own is your own. You don’t even own Goldy’s — though he’s all but offering it to you on an altar and making no demands for it.
And I control mine. And I’m giving it to Gentry Lange. The man who earned it.
To quote the late, great Eugene Debs, I would rather vote for what I want and not get it, than vote for what I don’t want…and get it.
In the Green’s defence – a vote for Nader in Washington State in 2000 didn’t affect the election at all – Gore was going to win Washington no matter what.
Now, that’s not to say that Florida Nader voters aren’t dumbasses.
This is a ridiculous, dated argument and undemocratic at it’s core.
If Democrats hate the idea of a candidate with minority support being elected, maybe they should eliminate the cuurent election system and replace it with system of Instant Run-Off Voting and Proportional Representation? I mean, the Democrats DO control, the state House, the state Senate, the courts and the governor’s office, right?
They could do it overnight if they wanted to, but they don’t. Because they like having people like Goldy under their thumb, afraid, and refusing to hold them accountable because a Republican monster will leap out of their closet and eat them if they don’t.
If you want to hold Sims accoutable, vote for Gentry. Because the alternative is more of what you’re getting right now.
Gentry @ 25
While I disagree with you on some issues and, as a (moderate) Republican I have issues with the Greens, I have to give you credit for at least talking about what you are FOR on your website! I also think (based on your blog entries) that it is shameful that Trahant wouldn’t interview you for the PI. (And to think the Left believes the MSM doesn’t have an agenda)
Anyway, good luck with your campaign. It is refreshing to see someone that actually says something besides “#$%!! the other guy.”
Gentry @ 25
If you live in the 7th district, run against McDermott. I think you have a better chance of winning there than in the KC Executive race.
I love it! Now Goldy’s filter (and not Goldy himself, of course) filters my post because I praise Gentry Lange’s campaign for being about something??!!
I reject the very idea of the spoiler effect, in Florida or otherwise.
Want some stats on Florida? How about these:
In 2000, Ralph Nader got 97,000 vote in Florida. However, 250,000 register Florida DEMOCRATS voted for George W. Bush.
You want to yell at someone? Yell at them.
Meanwhile, it was the Green Party that provided the FL ACLU with the voter lists that were able to prove that the GOP illegally purged voters from the rolls. Only a political party could make that demand and the Democrats were silent.
And who was silent when the vote count was contested by several members of the House of Representatives? That’s right. Every Democratic Senator.
Who stood up for voters in Ohio who faced being illegally purged from the rolls, voter intimidation and demanded a recount?
That’s right. The Green Party. While Kerry was waving the white flag, it was the Greens who raised the money to do a full state recount and investigated much of the blatant fraud there.
The filter killed one of my posts as well and one that stressed the historical important of third parties and why lesser evilism has given us worse Democrats, not better ones.
Go Gentry Lange!
Gentry @25,
The Republican talking point you are repeating is the most dishonest one of all… that King County Elections is corrupt and untrustworthy. The vast majority of the irregularities in the 2004 election were due to problems with the voter rolls that existed in all 39 counties, statewide. These were known issues, to be addressed by the statewide voter registration database that is scheduled to go online in January.
I’m just as concerned with black box voting as you are, but we don’t have that in King County. We have optical scan… the most reliable voting technology available, and one that leaves a paper trail. It’s Snohomish County you should be worried about, not King.
And let me ask you… what exactly makes you qualified to run a government larger than that of 13 states, huh? Why would anybody vote for you, except as a protest vote? I mean, you strike me as a decent guy and all, but does anybody actually think you’re qualified to manage a $3.4 billion budget?
We can argue all we want about who you take votes away from, but in the end my argument is with the voters, not you. Either Sims or Irons is going to come out of this election the winner… that’s a fact. And voters should choose the candidate they’d prefer to serve in office.
Goldy @40
Just as concerned eh? Well I’ve spent the better part of the past 3 years of my life working on exposing the black box voting issue, and you… uh… Yeah. ok
Ever try to get a public info request from King County Elections? Ever try running a campaign in King County? Ever exposed the felons programming our voter registration database?
The central tabulator is a “black box voting” system. Blackboxvoting.org has been breaking news on this system recently in fact.
You obviously do not know about that which you speak. Unauditable computer code in the vote counting machines are the definition of blackbox voting. End of debate.
On the CNBC TV show “Topic A With Tina Brown,” several months ago, Howard Dean had filled in for Tina Brown as guest host. His guest was Bev Harris, the Seattle grandmother who started http://www.blackboxvoting.org from her living room. Bev pointed out that regardless of how votes were tabulated (other than hand counts, only done in odd places like small towns in Vermont), the real “counting” is done by computers. Be they Diebold Opti-Scan machines, which read paper ballots filled in by pencil or ink in the voter’s hand, or the scanners that read punch cards, or the machines that simply record a touch of the screen, in all cases the final tally is sent to a “central tabulator” machine.
That central tabulator computer is a Windows-based PC.
“In a voting system,” Harris explained to Dean on national television, “you have all the different voting machines at all the different polling places, sometimes, as in a county like mine, there’s a thousand polling places in a single county. All those machines feed into the one machine so it can add up all the votes. So, of course, if you were going to do something you shouldn’t to a voting machine, would it be more convenient to do it to each of the 4000 machines, or just come in here and deal with all of them at once?”
Dean nodded in rhetorical agreement, and Harris continued. “What surprises people is that the central tabulator is just a PC, like what you and I use. It’s just a regular computer.”
“So,” Dean said, “anybody who can hack into a PC can hack into a central tabulator?”
Harris nodded affirmation, and pointed out how Diebold uses a program called GEMS, which fills the screen of the PC and effectively turns it into the central tabulator system. “This is the official program that the County Supervisor sees,” she said, pointing to a PC that was sitting between them loaded with Diebold’s software.
Bev then had Dean open the GEMS program to see the results of a test election. They went to the screen titled “Election Summary Report” and waited a moment while the PC “adds up all the votes from all the various precincts,” and then saw that in this faux election Howard Dean had 1000 votes, Lex Luthor had 500, and Tiger Woods had none. Dean was winning.
“Of course, you can’t tamper with this software,” Harris noted. Diebold wrote a pretty good program.
But, it’s running on a Windows PC.
So Harris had Dean close the Diebold GEMS software, go back to the normal Windows PC desktop, click on the “My Computer” icon, choose “Local Disk C:,” open the folder titled GEMS, and open the sub-folder “LocalDB” which, Harris noted, “stands for local database, that’s where they keep the votes.” Harris then had Dean double-click on a file in that folder titled “Central Tabulator Votes,” which caused the PC to open the vote count in a database program like Excel.
In the “Sum of the Candidates” row of numbers, she found that in one precinct Dean had received 800 votes and Lex Luthor had gotten 400.
“Let’s just flip those,” Harris said, as Dean cut and pasted the numbers from one cell into the other. “And,” she added magnanimously, “let’s give 100 votes to Tiger.”
They closed the database, went back into the official GEMS software “the legitimate way, you’re the county supervisor and you’re checking on the progress of your election.”
As the screen displayed the official voter tabulation, Harris said, “And you can see now that Howard Dean has only 500 votes, Lex Luthor has 900, and Tiger Woods has 100.” Dean, the winner, was now the loser.
Harris sat up a bit straighter, smiled, and said, “We just edited an election, and it took us 90 seconds.”
On live national television. (You can see the clip on http://www.votergate.tv.) And they had left no tracks whatsoever, Harris said, noting that it would be nearly impossible for the election software – or a County election official – to know that the vote database had been altered.
http://www.commondreams.org/he.....106-30.htm
Gentry Lange,
Until this very evening I have never heard of you. But, let me give you some advice anyway, Mr Lange. Don’t get into a pissing contest with Goldy on his own blog. In particular, don’t try to dismiss Goldy’s accomplishments simply because they are different from your accomplishments. Many of us know some of the things Goldy has accomplished, but most of us have no idea what you have accomplished (ummm … except for getting your name on one of Goldy’s posts).
A pissing contest in Goldy house with Goldy’s friends all around will not really help win votes.
Goldy…I think you are a smart guy…but why keep defending Simms? He has been terrible for King County. I’ll bet you could name personally 300 people that would be better…and so could I…and our lists wouldn’t overlap. I know you don’t like Irons…but he is better than Simms and if he’s elected…maybe seeing the change would give everyone a sense of what can be.
I wouldn’t vote for Simms for Student council…It’s completely “white guilt” that keeps this guy in office…I hate to say it but it has to be the reason. Let’s get someone qualified. I would vote for you, Goldy, over Simms. Over a lot of people actually…I reaally think you care about the citizens…Simms doesn’t.
dj @ 43
So, there is no room for dissent within HA? Kinda like the Dem party…
As I mentioned before, I don’t agree with the Greens and it is highly unlikely that I’d ever vote for Lange, but at least the guy (if it is really him posting) seems to have a pair. Is the Democratic Party so weak that they can only deal with millions of nodding heads, zombified eyes and a smiling pitcher of kids’ drink busting through the walls? Oh, yeah!
Why like the Dem party Mark?…They are definately the Socialists of the time…and the Republicans are the new liberals…don’t believe me?…the Bush administration has now outspent the LBJ administration…and that’s in inflation adjusted dollars….JFK would be sick if he were still around.
Mark @ 23
Correct.
Just have to figure out which puppetmaster you like best.
Goldy @12 says:
“The difference between me and you is that I’m focused on stealing the party back,…”
Thank you for clarifying what’s going on.
Mark @ 45
“So, there is no room for dissent within HA?”
Of course there is room. I’ve never suggested otherwise.
dj @ 48
In 43, you seem to be telling Mr. Lange what he should or shouldn’t say. It seems that Lange is holding Goldy’s feet to the fire and it makes you uncomfortable. Are you saying that all of the Lefties that post on SP should shut up because they don’t have the firsthand experience with the elections data like Stefan? From the posts above, it appears that Lange has at least done a bit of homework about voting irregularities. It may be BS, paranoia and/or the conspiracy theories of a fevered Left-wing mind, but he seems to have as much, if not more, firsthand experience with the topic as Goldy does.
I’m glad to be voting for the most qualified guy in the race – Ron Sims. Balanced budgets, AAA bond rating, growing the economy, all while remembering our priorities – preserving the environment and helping those less fortunate.
Why mess with success?
Felix @ 50
What has Ron done do “grow the economy?” What has he done different than his predecessors re: the environment or “helping those less fortunate?”
And he is SOLELY responsible for the budget and bond rating?
Goldy @ 12: “…and you’re sure as hell not going to get that by constantly trying to fuck the Democratic Party for not bowing to your inflexible ideals.”
Cripes, Goldy, do you actually go back and read what you write? Inflexible ideals? What the heck has the Moore/Moveon crowd been doing to the Democratic Party? Why is Hillary (HILLARY!!) been the target of complaint from the left? Why don’t you criticize those “inflexible ideals” within the party, and not worry about folks on the outside??
Don’t blame the Greens or Nader. At least they stand for something.
Roger Rabbitt: Do you still think the reason Sims dropped the Southwest Airlines idea had nothing to do with this election?
Sorry to be so harsh, because I’m sure we are in near agreement on most issues of the day… but welcome to the real world. The difference between me and you is that I’m focused on stealing the party back, whereas you’re focused on destroying it. In the meanwhile, I’ll just have to settle for the candidate best qualified to run King County… and that’s Ron Sims.
Comment by Goldy— 10/18/05 @ 8:02 pm
Goldy what was you smoking at the Pub last night? The Party is failing beacuse it lost Focus on who is paying the bills and you left the Scoop Jackson party members out. The party support for certain groups is way out of balance and those members will leave the Party. You and the Wabbit aren’t the same person? Your filter sucks also, one has to misspell certain words to present a point that you disagree on. If the filter has certain rules try posting them. Belgian Beer is to die for, by a plane ticket Goldy to Gent and enjoy a different culture. The food is great and meet new people with a different vantage point. Hey Wabbit you can take Headless Lucy with you too. God Bless
Mark @ 49
“In 43, you seem to be telling Mr. Lange what he should or shouldn’t say. It seems that Lange is holding Goldy’s feet to the fire and it makes you uncomfortable.”
No … read it again. I offered advice about a specific mode of discourse to Lange. I did not suggest anything at all about what he could or could not say. Furthermore, I offered no judgement about Lange “holding Goldy’s feet to the fire.”
“Are you saying that all of the Lefties that post on SP should shut up because they don’t have the firsthand experience with the elections data like Stefan?”
Really…read what I wrote again. You seem to have missed the point hugely.
“From the posts above, it appears that Lange has at least done a bit of homework about voting irregularities. It may be BS, paranoia and/or the conspiracy theories of a fevered Left-wing mind, but he seems to have as much, if not more, firsthand experience with the topic as Goldy does.”
Whatever. My message to Lange does not criticize him over doing homework, nor the substance of his arguments.
While I think that the difference in the stakes between this election and the 2000 Bush/Gore contest are significantly different (i.e. Neocons, Iraq war, Supreme Court, gutting of the tax code, deficits), I’d have to agree with Goldy’s argument. Having one vote is like having one dollar: You can spend it on something you hate (Irons), something that is marginally OK (Sims) or …you could light it on fire, and get nothing. I’m too much of a pragmatist to throw money away.
Since Bush took office, everyone with half a brain now realizes that the whole “I’m making a statement” argument is simplistic, idealistic, naive, and, potentially, horrific. Now, Irons isn’t going to launch a war against Chelan county, but could he gut local environmental protections? Drop the county’s bond rating through fiscally irresponsible policies? I guess you have to weigh what you want vs what you are willing to lose, a side of the equation the Greens seem to ignore in thier calculus.
klake @ 53
“Goldy what was you smoking at the Pub last night? The Party is failing beacuse it lost Focus on who is paying the bills and you left the Scoop Jackson party members out.”
More importantly, what were you sniffing when you wrote that last sentence????
“You and the Wabbit aren’t the same person?”
WTF???? I mean, Goldy certainly has a right to post under multiple monikers on his own blog if he chose to do so, but, holy shit, man, Roger Rabbit’s style is nothing, whatsoever, like Goldy’s! Just say “No!”, klake!
“Your filter sucks also, one has to misspell certain words to present a point that you disagree on. If the filter has certain rules try posting them.”
Here is an idea for you … get your own fucking blog, punk! It is realy, realy, realy easy to do, and you could then enlighten the world with your brilliant insights. BTW: Goldy’s filter’s behavior has nothing whatsoever to do with points he disagrees with. Don’t like the filter? Then scram!
“Belgian Beer is to die for, by a plane ticket Goldy to Gent and enjoy a different culture. The food is great and meet new people with a different vantage point. Hey Wabbit you can take Headless Lucy with you too. God Bless”
Whew … so I guess it is true about the brain damage from sniffing glue….
Mike Gillis @ 31 says:
“To quote the late, great Eugene Debs, I would rather vote for what I want and not get it, than vote for what I don’t want…and get it.”
That sums it up for Mike Gillis, Gentry Lange, and all the little smug, self-righteous Greenies and their politics of self-indulgence. They want what *they* want, even if the effect of their activities might be to hand us David Irons and fuck over the whole county.
They are, qualitatively, no different than the dumb pro-912 gomers who would rather pocket a few extra bucks than fix our roads and bridges so that everyone can benefit.
I was living in Colorado in the year 2000 and voted for Nader to send a message to the Democratic Party. Apparently , they have yet to get the message. They have to come out strong on a national level and though their positions may take some intelligence to understand, they need to make the effort anyway.
One message that they could make that is readily understandable is: “Republicans hate government but they love the State.” A picture of jackbooted Nazis saluting Hitler next to a discouraged contemporary white=collar worker in a soup line is all you need to do to make the message clear.
Another possible TV spot could be Bush’s press secretary insisting that Bush’s chat with the U.S. soldiers from Iraq was unscripted followed by a clip of them being coached by Republican operatives before the fact.
I disagree that optical scan is the most reliable and accurate voting system. The old mechanical lever booths are virtually unalterable and have no real “back door.” They’re also not subject to fraud in delivery of the votes to a central tabulator, as Gentry pointed out. The problem is they’re old and they don’t make part for them.
That said:
I had high hopes for blackboxvoting after the 2004 election. But after watching them, I don’t trust Bev or her methods. I’m amenable to charges of vote fraud, but one has to be very careful about how those charges are made, and Bev was definitely not.
Further, as important as secure voting processes are, this appears to be Gentry’s signature issue–which is a big problem for him, because we need leaders for the other 729 days in the election cycle where a general election isn’t going on.
Finally–Goldy, you know I love ya, but claiming that blood is on the hands of American Greens is pure demagogic nonsense, and extremely insulting. You can’t claim that Greens are missing the point that Irons is the real enemy, and then fail to acknowledge that on the national level, the one with blood on his hands is Bush. Not even if Bush had declared Iraq as a platform plank in 2000 would I agree with your characterization, but at least you’d have some kind of leg to stand on. You might as well blame Oppenheimer for bombing Japan.
In King County, a good Democratic TV spot would be a short clip of a corporate pig farm with the caption: “You don’t like land use rules? Vote Republican and meet the new neighbors!”
Go tell him he will be the fucking idiot to hand the election to Irons. He does have a comment section. Hey, all you righty trolls can go over there and give him some encouragement.
http://gentrylange.blogspot.com/
He seems proud of his 7%. That won’t amount to jack shit if Irons wins this thing.
I hope the wind shifts and Irons gets his head handed to him.
mark @ 51
Among many other things, Sims has made great strides in transportation – local road improvements in every part of the county. north sammamish plateau access road, 140th Ave SE, new Elliott bridge in Renton, new bridges in Duvall, expanded capacity everywhere. That certainly helps the economy.
More generically speaking, not allowing King Co. to turn into Phoenix keeps this a desirable area and spurs the economy.
If you don’t know that Sims’ strong support for the environment and for human services is different from other pols, well, you aren’t paying attention at all.
Sims is the most responsible person for balancing the budget. He submits the budget to the council and they tinker around the edges but ultimately it is on the executive.
And from this comes the bond rating.
So, yes, Ron deserves a lot of credit. It is quite easy to take potshots but the proof is in the details and Ron measures up very well.
Ivan @ 57: “their politics of self-indulgence”
You’ve perfectly described the entire Left.
Shiftless Loose-y @ 58: “I… voted for Nader to send a message to the Democratic Party. Apparently, they have yet to get the message.”
No. In a brief flash of wisdom, they’re IGNORING YOU, just like everyone else should.
All lefties are hereby requested to fall into a single line. All requests for issue positions, racial and gender diversity in appointments, as well as pork money will be considered AFTER the election. The immeduate goal must be to defeat the repubs, who everybody knows are forced into lock-step compliance with Karl Rove. I know what you are thinking – If it is bad that the repubs do it…..
Mark @ 62:
The entire right is not self-indulgent? BWAAAAHHHHAAAAHHHHAAAAHHHHAAAAHHHHAAAAHHHHAAAAHHHHAAAAHHHHAAAA!
yearight @ 63
The Dems are afraid of internal dissent. The irony is that they accuse the GOP of being doctrinaire, yet the GOP gives McCain, Giuliani, Ahhhnold and others the public spotlight.
Sorry, Lefties, the “big tent” is on the Right and you’re just a bunch of clowns.
Mark @ 64:
Sorry, McCain, Rudy, and Arnie all do what they’re told. Nice try. Now have another big gulp of your Kool-Aid.
re 62:I know they’re ignoring me. They’re also losing. Kerry won the nomination because a few days before Iowa he said some “fightin’ words” that resonated with the base. We’ve not seen hide nor hare of THAT Kerry since.DEms. hoped (with Kerry) that at long last we had a Democrat with some backbone. Sadly, that was not the case. If Sims doesn’t mount an aggressive campaign, maybe I WILL vote Green. The Dems. better reach in their pants and find them nads— if they still have any.
@28 Roger Rodent: (see post)
On that thread:
Total posts as of Wednesday, Oct. 19th, at 10:16AM:
420.
Total Roger Rodent mouth-spewings: 208 total posts.
That is 49.52%
At post number 407 on that thread:
Roger exclaims with joy: ‘Wow! 410 posts!’
Even though almost half are his, and none of them have any intelligent substance at all. Wow, what a shocker there.
In the great words of Jim Carey: ‘Lllllllooooossssseeeerrrr!!!’
Ivan @ 66
Just one example: Both Rudy & Schwarzenegger have been very public about being pro-choice — something the Dems consider a “defining issue” — yet they still get national exposure.
As a brainwashed, goose-stepping, MorOn.org Lefty, your little brain just can’t handle anything but groupthink. There’s a whole wide world out there… and diversity means more than race or preference of bed partners. It is also diversity of ideas — something the Left has a tough time accepting.
Hey–Perot gave us Clinton and you didn’t seem angry about THAT!
This post reminds me of an angry comment that I heard from a Dem leader in 2000 about usual Dem voters who were voting for Nader: “They have an OBLIGATION to vote for Gore!!!!” Oh REALLY? You see–THIS is the real attitude of Dems toward their base, that they are really just mindless robotoids who should shut up and vote they way they’re told to vote. If they have to be fed half-truths to accomplish that, so be it. I’ve always been appalled at how unions treat their membership with such disrespect in this way. And who could forget Walter Mondale’s creepy comment whispered to the person next to him when he ran for prez and stood before an adoring union crowd “Look at them: we’re gonna taxes their asses off”. Is this how you want your leaders to see you? Or are you deserving of better?
Frankly, I think Gentry makes some good points. It really IS Sims who is sinking himself, not Gentry. If Sims were on his way to his usual 64% victory, Gentry’s presence wouldn’t mean anything. People see Sims for what he is, and they have had it.
I am an ardent liberal and still think you have to look long and hard at any candidate before you support him or her, regardless of whether they proclaim the D – and Sims just doesn’t bear the scrutiny! He has a long history of favoring friends and donors, in spite of detrimental impact on the County. He met with a bunch of taxi drivers who wanted independent cabs – they donated $12,000 to his campaign and he “suddenly” championed a bunch of new taxi licenses. He met with SouthWest Airlines and “suddenly” the husband of one of his closest aids was a lobbiest for same airlines – pushing for SWA to move to Boeing. (And we all know what happened after that.) And he gets big donations – tens of thousands of dollars, every year – from the Indian casinos and then he tries to drive the card rooms out of business to stop the casinos competition. Are ya’ll paying attention here? Sims is NOT watching out for the county – he is watching out for himself and his friends. The proof is in the record. Check it out – and then reconsider blindly voting for him because he is a D. Be an independent, check out Irons too – and I bet you end up voting for Irons.
Wow…the censureship here is incredible. I wrote a long message about Sims swinging whichever way his big donors want – from taxi drivers who donated and then got an increase in license permits, to SouthWest Airlines that hired the husband of his senior aide….and my message didn’t post. Amazing. If you want to really check out Sims’ record make a quick review of how much money he gets from the Indian casinos (tens of thousands every year), and consider his stance on closing cardrooms (little guys who compete with the big casinos). He is bought and paid for by special interests – and that is just one example. If you’ll check out Irons you won’t end up with a knee-jerk “D” vote, I guaranty it.
Hmmm….this the third time I’ve tried to post and clearly I’m being censured. Amazing. Don’t expect a dialog here. Expect one sided diatribes. Get real info someplace where they aren’t afraid of free thinkers.
I’m trying to figure out what the trip words are on the censure – it is contributions from “big casinos” that prompted Sims to try and block the “cardroom” competition?
I figured it out! The trip words that censure a post are contributions from (typed backwards) gib sonisac that resulted in Sims trying to close (typed backwards) smoordrac. Amazing…lol….try it. It will give you a feel for the selective postings allowed here.
contributions from big casinos resulted in Sims trying to close cardrooms….lol too funny
Sims has been getting tens of thousands of dollars from gib sonisac (backwards) for years…and as a result he has tried to close smoordrac (backwards). Why are they afraid of us discussing that here? It’s on his PDC for goodness sake. Look for the truth, my friends. And then vote for the best candidate – that’s what a democracy is all about.
Jenny,
Quit being a moron and read the discalmer below the “Say it” box.
Yes … certain words involved with g a m b l i n g and other topics get held because there are many bots trying to clog blog comment threads with advertisements. Sheesh!
dj @ 75
There are political words that will trip up the filter, too. I’m still waiting for a post of mine to be released in another thread (in response to Curtis Love’s misguided beliefs that nobody from al-Q is in Iraq, that “making a plan” counts as a plan itself and that withdrawal timetables are anything but a bad military strategy).
I did see the advertisement block…but blocking issues related to the election? And I will try your spacing idea.
Tracing contributions from special interest groups to a direct response froms Sims is disconcerting -to say the least, and makes him unsuited to public office. For instance, he met with a group of taxi drivers, who contributed $12,000 to his campaign and wanted their own cabs, and Sims immediately promoted increasing the number of licenses. And he met with Southwest Airlines and then the husband of his senior aid goes to work for SWA as a lobbist immediately thereafter – and we all know about Sims promoting SWA at Boeing field for the last two months, until the election got tight and he backed off. And as I said before (or tried to), his attempts to close c a r d r o o m s is stunning when put in context of the tens of thousands of dollars he gets from t r i b al c a s i n o s every year. Sims isn’t against g a m b l i n g he is against competition! We need somebody who’s position on the issues isn’t for sale to the highest contributor. Irons is a great candidate and deserves your attention….and Sims has problems. That’s all I’m saying. Don’t be a drone!
Uh-oh! What are you kwazy Dems going to do now? Who do you side with? Crawford Cindy is tearing into Hillary (see Cindy’s spewings on 10/15 @ the MichaelMoore website).
Then again, Cindy is really the face of the “new” Dem party — the MorOn.org fringe. Maybe Hillary wants to switch to Center Right?
You wonder why the Dem party implodes, yet the minute a party member says something you disagree with, you throw the baby out with the bathwater. Kool-Aid? Oh, yeah!
Mr. Lange has some interesting ideas, like most progressives, I find a lot to like about the Green Party. But Goldy is correct, the Green Party needs to build a base in small local elections, not by keeping the Neo-Con’s in control.
Mr. Lange REALLY blew it when, in speaking if Irn’s, he said @ 6
“And when he gets in and does as little as Ron, then I’ll be his biggest critic as well. ”
That is a self fulfilling nightmare, Mr. Lange, and I will be damned if I will let you or your party destroy King County like you have done for this nation.
Shame on you!
I agree completely with “Rightwinger!” @ 79
Wish I had said it. :)
-The difference between me and you Goldy is that I get out there every day and every night and put my name, my face, and my reputation speaking the truth as I see it.-
Really, Mr. Gentry? Until this poll came out, I had never heard a peep. And until I just viewed your website, I had no idea what you even looked like.
By “getting your face out there” maybe you meant the goofy picture on those real estate signs?
And since when did “speaking the truth” become electing right wingers who stand against all your supposed values?
Nice to see that Jenny the fake Democrat likes Gentry the fake progressive. She can vote for either Irons or Gentry, and the result will be the same. That’s democracy Green-style!
-his attempts to close c a r d r o o m s is stunning when put in context of the tens of thousands of dollars he gets from t r i b al c a s i n o s every year. Sims isn’t against g a m b l i n g he is against competition! –
Hey, Jenny sounds a lot like she worked on Tim Eyman’s last failed initiative campaign. Maybe Jenny is Tim in drag! Is ‘her’ IP from a gated community in Mukilteo? Frat row?
On his web site blog he complains about not getting press exposure. I can understand that. My guess is the Seattle press is as concerned about his impact on the election as anyone else.
Look Gentry, if you can go recruit 7% of the conservative voters in KC you might have something to complain about.
Oops – posted this on the wrong thread. Take 2….
Call me cynical, but I’m perfectly capable of being pissed at Sims for abandoning traditional Democrats and realizing that voting for a Green candidate in a close election helps elect the Republican.
Vote your desires/wishes if you must (wish in one hand and shit in the other and see which one fills up first), but if Irons gets elected and guts the Critical Areas Ordinance and the Growth Management Act, cuts transit hours in Seattle, and does who knows what other stupid right wing crap, don’t come crying to the Dems.
I’m holding my nose (over SW Airlines, Stadia, and general corporate friendliness) and voting for Sims. And you know what, it’s not a hard decision at all.
Goldy, here’s the deal: 1) Republicans suck. 2) Democrats suck almost as hard. Honestly, if you want real change, here’s what has to happen. ALL THE DEMOCRATS WITH A CONSCIENCE NEED TO VOTE GREEN. – Instead of whining about a group “whose ideology I mostly embrace”, you an your fellow Dems should join us! No more problem. The Greens have shown that they are willing to fight the real fight, not play the game as per usual. If you are truely progressive, you will abandon your stupid Democratic party, because it DOESN’T STAND FOR ANYTHING, ANYMORE. You seem like an intelligent guy, so I figure you must know this is true. If you spend half as much time forwarding the Green cause as you do maligning them, they’d be getting 21% of the numbers, and then we’d be having REAL fun. You and me both! C’mon Goldy… show us that you have the guts to overcome bipolar miopia, it’s time for a new party.
In King County, a good Democratic TV spot would be a short clip of a corporate pig farm with the caption: “You don’t like land use rules? Vote Republican and meet the new neighbors!”
Comment by headless lucy— 10/19/05 @ 9:34 am
Well Lucy if you remeber there was a pig famer up in BC that like Ladies like you, did he vote Democratic? Because your frieds in West Seattle chose to stay here instead of moving North to Canada after the election, now we have a land use rule problems. Now had they sold those homes in Seattle for a low price they would be available for the tent People living on the Eastside. Then you would have new children to fill up you great schools in Seattle. No need to build homes in the suburbs and no need for outrageous land use laws. Win Win solution and Happy new immigrants in Canada enjoying all the new goverment perks. We could also donate that light rail there also, and run it from Blaine to Vancover and to experdite their migration process.
Stupid Rightwinger: Were the Greens the cause Al Gore lost Tennessee? Al Gore lost because he could not carry his own state. They knew the man and HE WUZ REJECTED! Get it? But for these lefties to understand that and accept that would force them to regurgitate their kool-aid sips.
I say go Greenies. I luv how head-up-de-ass luucy loves to call those of us who always think right are jack boot goose steppers. Goldy proved you wrong. It’s the left who gets pissed when people are not jackbooting goose steppers drinking the mooron.org kool-aid. If this post doesn’t solidify arguments against the left and their rants about people who think for themselves (even torridjoe is up in arms), I can’t see what else does.
MuddyBuddy “. It’s the left who gets pissed when people are not jackbooting goose steppers drinking the mooron.org kool-aid.”
Not at all, Mr. Always Wrong, Progressives do not jacknoot or goose step, like the Neo-Cons have the GOP doing. We embrace the ideas of the Green Party, but realistically, you vote green and you just end up with more fascists running the government. It is not time to remodel, we got stop the destrucion first!
And, Puddlyone, when any of you wingnuts say that you do NOT embrace the ideals of the fascist Neo-Cons and get the GOP back to being a responsible party. THEN and only then will you not be seen as a bunch of Kool Aid Drunk Gooose steppers.
Donna @ 88
Face it. There is no room for dissention in the Dem Party. It is Howard Dean screaming, “my way or the highway!” (after receiving marching orders from his MorOn.org handlers)
Name three moderate Dems who actually get serious public spotlight time (i.e. Convention speeches, considered for President, etc.).
The fringes deride moderates for their supposed “lack of conviction,” yet when it is time to put your (vote) where your mouth is, you disappear. If the Green candidate is the best guy for the job, in your opinion, you either vote for him or get him to run as a Dem. But nooooooooooo… Instead you Lefties tear the guy down — a guy who actually says what he stands for — and use scare tactics to get your minions in line. THAT is goose-stepping, Kool-Aid sipping GROUPTHINK!
Sorry Stuckonstupiddon, your dog just doesn’t hunt here. Trying to change the conversation to national issues doesn’t work. Ron Sims is a real horsesass and you can’t see it. If you all claim support Green Party platforms then vote for the man in overwhelming numbers. I doubt that this will ever happen. Otherwise why would Goldy end the thread with that VEILED THREAT? He gets in and Sims is replaced. Even some of your most animal hind parts rabid friends are up in arms on this thread. You are just too stuck on stupid to see it!
Sorry NeverleftstupidPuddy, I am not going to vote for Mr Gentry specifically because I do not want an asshole like Irons winning.
I know you want to split the progressive vote, but it ain’t gonna happern pudding brains! And the only “Vieled Threat” from Goldy is the obvious one: Vote for Gentry and you will elect Irons.
That is pretty damned scary!
Donna @ 90
The truly “progressive” vote would never consider Sims. He’s just the same ol’, same ol’ lyin’ politician.
Then again, all you aging, Lefties are actually sellouts anyway. You SAY one thing, but do whatever is most convenient. If you agree with Lange, but vote for Sims, you are a COWARD.
Stuckonstupiddon: Where were you when Ross Perot gave the election to Billy Bob? Probably cheering right? I was, because I was a Democrap then. Regarding the veiled threat, it is a jackboot goose step call to arms!
Awww, if Irons wins, lots of changes in King County. Heck, maybe Aaron Reardon will wake up in Snohomish!!!!
Mr. Lange, you see what you are trying to unleash on the good people of King County?
Double shame on you!
If you do not have the courage to fight for what is right in the political world that exists, you are just a part of the problem.
King County, the USA, and the world cannot afford more Neo-Con elections by division of the progressive vote. If we lived in a parlimentary democracy, I would be right with you. But we live in the USA, set up by ill-design to have a two party system.
We cannot allow the zombies of the right to destroy our world ( i.e PuddyBud and Marks posts above) They love you Gentry, because you want to hand them victory.
“Stupid Rightwinger: Were the Greens the cause Al Gore lost Tennessee? Al Gore lost because he could not carry his own state. ”
Puddybud, you don’t seem real smart, so I’ll break it down for you: between the last time Gore ran and won for Senate, and the time he ran for Prez, Tennessee became an overwhelmingly Republican state. And in case that’s too complicated for you, “Earth in the Balance” wasn’t a bestseller in Memphis (it maybe after these hurricanes wipe the bible belt off the face of the earth) And if you didn’t notice, Gorton lost his Senate seat because his state became more liberal at the same time he had a nutty Libertarian who siphoned votes from him. See how that works?
Now, I think you should blame Sims for not winning Enumclaw, Medina and Clyde Hill.
LineralRedneck @ 95 said “Puddybud, you don’t seem real smart”
Welcome to the HA Trolls, LibRed. PuddyBud is a good example of the brainless trolls who post here. They all have their favorite blend of ignorance and wingnuttery.
Keeps the conversation flowing, and remains a good reminder of why we are liberals and progressives!
Also a good reminder of why it’s important to adequately fund mental health programs.
Or maybe that is the problem? We taxpayers probably pay for Puddybud and Joseph’s internet connections via SSI.
“The Greens have over 220 elected officials in this country, including the Seattle School Board President, Brita Butler-Wall and fellow Board director, Sally Soriano.”
That’s strange, Mike Gillis, I don’t see either name on Lange’s endorsement list. Looks like they want to stay elected. Neither do I see Butler Wall or Soriano contributing a single cent to his election campaign. In fact, the only two people making any kind of significant donation to Gentry Lange’s quixotic campaign are a couple of software moonbats living on Vashon Island.
“If you want to hold Sims accoutable, vote for Gentry. Because the alternative is more of what you’re getting right now. ”
Interesting how crazy Greens like Lange and Gillis seem to be so obsessed with their “ideals and values”, yet are completely unable to tell us how this Green candidate would be any different on the issues than Sims. The only thing they can tout is the vague notion that this clown provides an “alternative.” Hell, a rock could accomplish that.
So Gentry Lange’s campaign is all about “Key Values,” huh?
Well, it looks like the apple didn’t fall far from the Nader tree – from a column he wrote in 1998:
So I’ve made a decision: I’m going to lie. It’s not like anyone expects you to tell the truth anyway. For instance, most job applications ask questions that will undoubtedly be answered dishonestly. Like that question about the salary you “desire” ) what kind of stupid question is that? Invariably my desire far exceeds the amount of money the position pays.
So when asked what position or salary I desire, instead of answering honestly, I will lie. When asked what I feel are my greatest weaknesses, I will not tell potential employers the truth about my history with drug use, migraines, depression, co-dependency, tardiness, illicit and dangerous sexual behavior, youthful angst or my lack of any discernible job skills. No, instead I will prepare something that sounds believable, maybe a little self-effacing, but definitely not the truth.
Looks like the Gentry Lange apple doesn’t fall far from the Green Party tree. Is lying onee of the Green’s “Ten Key Values?” From a column Lange wrote in 1998:
So I’ve made a decision: I’m going to lie. It’s not like anyone expects you to tell the truth anyway. For instance, most job applications ask questions that will undoubtedly be answered dishonestly. Like that question about the salary you “desire” ) what kind of stupid question is that? Invariably my desire far exceeds the amount of money the position pays.
So when asked what position or salary I desire, instead of answering honestly, I will lie. When asked what I feel are my greatest weaknesses, I will not tell potential employers the truth about my history with drug use, migraines, depression, co-dependency, tardiness, illicit and dangerous sexual behavior, youthful angst or my lack of any discernible job skills. No, instead I will prepare something that sounds believable, maybe a little self-effacing, but definitely not the truth.
Donna @ 93: “If you do not have the courage to fight for what is right in the political world that exists, you are just a part of the problem.”
So, you believe that the Green platform is worse than the Dems’ BY ITS MERITS ALONE? Otherwise, if you vote Dem, you are admitting you lack the courage. Then again, you only do what your fearless leaders tell you to do anyway. Lemme guess… you all have to log onto MorOn.org at 8pm every night for your daily mental “download?”
Go fuck yourself, Mark. You are a waste of protoplasm and because of people like you , American soldiers die uselessly every day. If you really supported our soldiers you would be asking your neo-con masters why ,to this day, they continue to enrich themselves and not properly equip our soldiers. Where’s the outrage? You’re a sick piece of crap in a leaky , dripping sack.
LibRed: he title of that Gentry Lange essay was “Honesty is So Passe” which is just sooo perfect for him. http://archives.thedaily.washi.....on430.html
In this column, Gentry Lange explains how he became a Green, bent on commiting political suicide:
Confessions of a medicinal pot smoker
Gentry C. Lange
Contributing Writer
I have smoked pot medicinally.
I worked in a toxicology lab a few years ago. Later, I discovered the lab’s fume hood did not work properly. During the period I worked in this lab, I developed debilitating migraines. Along with severe head pain and vision problems, I had frequent bouts of vomiting. My grades were dropping because I was incapable of studying. I had developed Multiple Chemical Sensitivity.
I tried numerous over-the-counter drugs and prescription medications to relieve my pain. Aspirin didn’t work. Prescription drugs only made me feel worse.
I decided I would try marijuana.
http://archives.thedaily.washi.....ssion.html
Well said, Lucy, Well said.
Liberal Red Neck @ 105 & 106
http://archives.thedaily.washi.....on430.html
Why don’t you give them the whole article to read. It’s a tongue and cheek satire, not a statement of fact or intent.
The title is, “Honesty is So Passe”. Come on? Talk about taking something out of context.
And to Jimmy, and everyone else who thinks that I am stealing votes from Sims. Sims lost 30% of the Dems in the primary. I wasn’t in the primary. Since then, the King5 poll shows that I have picked up 10% of Democrats, and David Irons has picked up 15%. Now ask youself this, am I taking votes from Sims, or Irons? Everywhere I go Irons supporters say, well I am not going to vote for Sims, and was going to vote for Irons, but now that there’s an alternative to Irons I’m voting for you.
Democrats need to stop fighting 2000 over and over in their head. Fighting the last war is what loses wars. Right Irons is pulling more Dems than me. His 15% could just as easily be 25% without me in the race. So instead of looking at it with your 2000 glasses on, I suggest you move into 2005, move from Florida to Washington, and get to working on winning the race instead of accusing me of throwing the election. The numbers just don’t support your argument. And with your selective facts, you are just making yourselves look bad. Stand your ground, speak out about why you support your candidate, but attacking me is simply backfiring when the numbers show that I could actually be helping you.
Oh, right. This must be a ‘tongue in cheek satire,’ too:
Chronic suffering, chronic solution
Confessions of a medicinal pot smoker
Gentry C. Lange
Contributing Writer
I have smoked pot medicinally.
I worked in a toxicology lab a few years ago. Later, I discovered the lab’s fume hood did not work properly. During the period I worked in this lab, I developed debilitating migraines. Along with severe head pain and vision problems, I had frequent bouts of vomiting. My grades were dropping because I was incapable of studying. I had developed Multiple Chemical Sensitivity.
I tried numerous over-the-counter drugs and prescription medications to relieve my pain. Aspirin didn’t work. Prescription drugs only made me feel worse.
I decided I would try marijuana.
Instead of the nausea there was hunger; instead of pain and depression I felt giddy.
http://archives.thedaily.washi.....ssion.html
“when the numbers show that I could actually be helping you.”
Actually, the poll numbers show the exact opposite, Gentry. I know rational thought is tough to come by for quixotic Greens, but flat-out lying about polling statistics, when the polling firm covered this exact issue in two separate polls?
Go ahead – keep lying to yourself to rationalize the damage you are doing to our community. But don’t lie to us.
And just in case you didn’t read the language in the poll that gave you your 15 seconds of fame, here it is again:
“At the moment, Lange is taking votes from Sims. Those who vote for Lange are disproportionately Democrat and Liberal – voters who would otherwise be more likely to support Sims than Irons.”
Got any more delusions to share with us today, Gentry?
The pollsters do absolutely say that. But they didn’t poll on that question. I believe there bias shows on this question, just like yours. Look at the actual numbers on there sight. 15% of Dems going to Irons, 10% of Dems going to me. Did they ask the 10% going to me who they’d vote for if not for me? No. They did not. So they are simply stating something as fact that they have no basis for stating other than assumption. 15% of Dems are currently going to Irons. The numbers are right there on their website, do some research. Then argue with me all you want. Personally it matters little to me who you vote for, I will continue however to speak the truth as I see it, if you like Ron go ahead and vote for him. But expect to be stuck in traffic 4 years from now next time you head to the polls, just like you will likely be stuck in traffic this time you head to the polls. I’m not a Democrat, my job is building the Green party, not protecting Ron Sims, so I offer this view of the polls as an opinion, you can choose to ignore the reality I encounter every night I’m out on the campaign trail.
But ask yourself this, is anyone on here who currently supports Sims thinking of voting for me? My guess is no. Sims lost Democrats support well before I entered the race, and those who stayed with him are sticking it out. I have yet to meet and convert a Sims supporter, I have meet several Irons supporters and converted them.
But go right ahead and keep demonizing me. As they say any press is good press. Keep this thread alive as long as possible I say, I keep getting emails from new supporters that found out about me right here on Goldy’s website. Thanks Goldy for all your support!
I’ve got 7% now, with virtually no press, as the race heats up, it’s possible my support will grow now that people are finally hearing about my campaign. If you truly believe I’m stealing votes from your guy, the best thing to do then is to never mention my name. But it’s obviously too late for that.
The poll has no basis for saying this when the numbers clearly show I’m pulling only 10% of Dems, and Irons is getting 15% of Dems.
The poll didn’t ask who my 10% would vote for if I wasn’t it the race, so it’s funny that they assume the conclusion that I’m taking votes from Ron. Until they conduct an accurate poll there is no basis for that assertion. And my personal experience is that I have yet to convert a single Ron supporter, but I have converted several Irons supporters that meet me and say, well I was going to vote for Irons to get rid of Ron, but now that there’s an alternative to the Republican I’ll vote for you instead.
But I’m working on building the Green party, not protecting Ron. I simply offer up my opinion, you are free to do with it what you will.
-The pollsters do absolutely say that. But they didn’t poll on that question. I believe there bias shows on this question-
My God, could somebody give this naive neophyte a hand? Read the poll, silly boy. Those liberal voters AREN’T going to go to the right winger. The 15% of Democrats voting for Irons are CONSERVATIVES who swing off the right side of the party. How hard is that for you to figure out? The party has all kinds of shades, and you are sucking up the liberal vote. And by claiming Sims isn’t liberal enough (lying), you Greens have proven you won’t take responsibility for your own actions.
-But ask yourself this, is anyone on here who currently supports Sims thinking of voting for me? My guess is no. Sims lost Democrats support well before I entered the race-
Sure thing, and all those Nader votes who got Bush elected would have otherwise left their Presidential ballot blank.
I think those fumes DID affect your brain, Gentry.
Personally, I don’t mind that the Green Party is driven by suicidal tendencies. I just wish they wouldn’t keep working so hard to drag the rest of us down with them.
It’s more like murder-suicide.
I’m not demonizing you, FYI. You’ve done it all to yourself. And it seems like this “off the cliff” mentality seems to have developed over a long period of time, given your columns in the Daily. I am not an across the board Democratic voter myself, and, quite frankly, if Irons wasn’t such a Bush-like idiot, I wouldn’t be wasting my time on a hapless Green nut like you.
You had better hope Sims wins, because if David Irons wins, he’s going to follow the Bush ticket straight to hell, and you are going to be on heckuva persona non grata in your own community.
Unless, of course, Irons can find an position in his administration for the king of political and intellectual suicide.
Loose-y @ 109
And yet you and Donna fail to answer the question. Why? Because MorOn.org didn’t include the answer in their nightly “brain dump” to you. Perhaps you could put in a special request?
So, in the meantime, why don’t you go back to feverishly poring over your stack of NAMBLA Monthly magazines. It is painfully clear that the only reason you went into teaching is to be around children. If only your bosses saw the vomit you spew on this website. They’d TRY to fire you in a minute… but your child-hating union would defend your incompetence and your sick fixation with children as an “alternative lifestyle.”
No healthy family would keep bringing this stuff out like old Holloween decorations. It is sad to see that a family’s dedication to a party is more than to blood.
Using a dysfunctional family against a guy because you can’t win with your corrupt inept canidate proves your site is names well you are an ass.
“So, in the meantime, why don’t you go back to feverishly poring over your stack of NAMBLA Monthly magazines. It is painfully clear that the only reason you went into teaching is to be around children.”
And the Real Mark thinks of himself as a Christian. With Christians like this around, who needs Satanists? And why do right wingers always obsess over molesting children? A little transference going on here, per chance?
AmDazed @ 121While I am of the faith, I don’t recall EVER making a public issue of it. The last time I thumped a Bible was as a kid (because it made kind of a cool sound).
No transferrence. Lucy and the union that protects “her” both hate children. That being the case, the only logical reason for “her” to be teaching is to be around them for inappropriate reasons.
Yelling at people like Gentry Lange will not help to get rid of the “spoiler” issue. He is running to try to make a difference on issues that he believes in, such as getting rid of corporate control of our voting software. Believe it or not, Ron Sims(who clearly has done some good things for which he should be commneded)has allowed a subsidiary of the Diebold Corporation to own the voting software and control the code in King County. This is a very dangerous development which no one else has brought up. One may disagree with Gentry and his strategy, yet this is clealry a very substantive issue and not some symbolic point.
Let’s work together to get rid of the spoiler factor! There is a clear way to do this which would also promote greater voter participation, foster progressive coalitions between Greens, Democrates and others, and ensure the election of candidates who have a earned a true majority- it’s called Instant Runnoff Voting (IRV).
IRV allows voters to rank their choices- 1-2-3 etc. in order of preference. If someone earns a mjaority of #1 votes they are elected. If not, the candidate with the fewest votes is eliminated and their votes are transfered to their #2 choice and so on, if necessary, until someone earns a majority. IRV accomplishes the narrowing down function of primaries so only one election is necessary, hence it saves money. More importantly it eliminates the so called spoiler factor, as voting for your true preference doesn’t favor the election of someone you really don’t like ( you have a backup with your other choices).
IRV is a tried and true method- it is used in London, Ireland, Australia, and now in San Fransico where it has gotten good voter reviews.
The Greens, some progressive Democrats and others are working to institute IRV in Washington – why not join us in lobbying the legislature to institiute this true voting reform and get rid of the spoiler once and for all? Then we can debate issues and candidates and issues on their merits without fear.
We Greens don’t want to be spoilers, join us in working to lean up our spoiled system by supportin IRV- for more information on how to get involved and lobby your state legislature check www. IRVWA.org
Thanks!
Joe Szwaja