Tonight, tens of thousands of patriotic Americans in hundreds of communities across the nation held Peace Vigils in solidarity with Cindy Sheehan’s vigil outside President Bush’s ranch in Crawford, TX. I’ve been struck with a vicious summer cold (or possibly, the plague) so I was unable to attend my local gathering, but David at HomesteadBook.com has a nice account (and pictures) of the vigil at Sunset Hill Park in Seattle’s Ballard neighborhood.
I would love to hear more first hand reports of vigils from around the state and beyond, so if you attended one, please post in the comment thread. And if you have posted an account on your own blog, please let me know, and I’ll update my post with a link.
UPDATE:
It’s front page, above the fold, in both the Times and P-I. Thousands of people turned out for over 50 vigils across the Puget Sound region, including an estimated 400 at Greenlake and 200 in Bellevue. (The P-I has also posted an excellent photo gallery from the various gatherings.) MoveOn.org estimates that over 50,000 people registered to attend 1,627 vigils, nationwide.
NWCitizen.com reports on the vigil at Fairhaven Village Green in Bellingham, where several hundred people attended. In the comment thread, Danny reports on the Olympia vigil, while Greg and Rujax briefly mention Bellevue Square and Seacrest Park respectively.
If you have more reports, post them, and I’ll keep posting the links.
Get with the program, Goldy, Cindy is only to be referred to as “Mother Sheehan”.
http://dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/8/13/9565/81042
350 Plus, Camp Casy, Olympia Washington (none / 0)
At one point there were 350 lining the streets with candles and signs across from Heritage Park in downtown Olympia. The number was probably far greater as the crowd was fluid with people coming and going. Pretty impressive–given there was little organized activity, and compelling example of the Power of One (Cindy) multiplied by the Internet! There were no speeches and little organization, but occasionally a song would breakout like “We Shall Overcome” or “Give Peace a Chance” and “Imagine”. The cars traveling by were mostly supportive. Olympia is an interesting community–decidedly BLUE, yet Fort Lewis is only a few miles down the road. As I stood there with my candle I was reminded of the protests before we went to war and thought how right we were. I thought back further to the impomptu candlelight vigils after 9-11 and how we were united as a country and the world was one with us. I felt very sad that our President had squandered that for NO noble cause. And because I am old and grey I thought of the Vietnam War Protests I participated in and how they built momentum until finally the political institutions had to respond and we left Vietnam. One stark difference between tonight and the Vietnam protests (at least here in Olympia) was the age of the protesters. The Vietnam days were marked by crowds of youth who led the charge. In tonights crowd there were few youth. Has the lack of draft made the difference? Ot was a moving event– because of its spontanuity (sp?) and lack of an agenda. I suspect there were many agendas–but they all had a common theme of appreciating the efforts of one grieving woman who has allowed herself to become a focal point for us to stand beside and with. Our thoughts are with Casey, Cindy and the members of our own local Stryker Brigade at Fort Lewis and WA National Guard who have made the supreme sacrifice. We have watched memorial services at Ft Lewis for some 30 soldiers and want it to end.
Danny
Hey Zippo!
Thanks!
Close to 300 at Bellevue Square. It was great to see how much support we got from the people honking and waving as they drove by.
About 100 at Seacrest Park in West Seattle. We got freeped twice. Both guys were uhhhh…drunk.
Whatcha doin’ Zippy (ya’ old pinhead) checkin’ out the competition…or trying to learn something.
Alas, we are still at war. Another dispatch awaits at http://www.michaelyon.blogspot.com/
You folks should read this web site, you might learn someting new other than what you read in the PI. What are your real fears? Someone else success or your failure. (“Fear kills more people than death” Gen. Patton). Open your eyes and look from another vantage point, you might see the forest from the trees. Have you been in the Southwest Asia and meet the people we are trying to help? I have and from my from my vantage point, I see a different picture that what you see. The difference from myself and you, is that I wear a uniform, and make sacrifices you are incapable of making. Don’t devalue our sacrifice beacuse you can’t deal with your Fears or your loss of stature. God Bless
Fear and loss of stature got nothin’ to do with it kkklake.
A monstrous war and an insane foreign policy built on absolute, provable lies, profiteering and coruption has everything to do with it.
You just don’t have the nuts to deal with the facts and the truth.
Wait just a minute here Goldie. To qualify as “patriotic”, you must have the following qualifications:
You must consistently vote Republican,
You must support an idiotic war in Iraq,
You must be opposed to the necessary tax increases to pay for it,
And, you must have your head up your ass.
Get with the program Goldy. You’re an embarrassment to us all.
Fear and loss of stature got nothin’ to do with it kkklake.
A monstrous war and an insane foreign policy built on absolute, provable lies, profiteering and coruption has everything to do with it.
You just don’t have the nuts to deal with the facts and the truth.
Comment by Rujax206— 8/17/05 @ 10:44 pm
You really do have you head up your ASS, for you will not look from a different vantage point and learn the other person point of view on the subject.
Bellingham:
Several hundred citizens assembled on the Fairhaven Village Green this evening to stand with Cindy Sheehan who is standing in Texas.
Above, Dan Weekly, the fellow behind the vigil, speaks to the crowd. This photo doesn’t show the full crowd of perhaps 400 people who came out on an August night. Heads up when autumn arrives and we assemble to protest the war. Dan rented the Green from the Bellingham Parks and then registered the vigil with MoveOn.org, where 285 people registered to attend. This was one of over 1,600 vigils across the USA this evening.
http://nwcitizen.com/
A cold? You stayed home for a cold?
Wuss…
;)
ok…kkkid…give me the business.
Your best shot. Whatcha got.
From Seattle P-I, 08/18/2005:
But some Republicans suggested that the White House was not handling the issue adroitly, arguing that its insistence the war was going well was counterproductive.
“Any effort to explain Iraq as ‘we are on track and making progress’ is nonsense,” said Republican Newt Gingrich, the former House speaker. “The left has a constant drumbeat that this is Vietnam and a bottomless pit. The daily and weekly casualties leave people feeling that things aren’t going well.”
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/.....ubs18.html
Klake @ 10 “You really do have you head up your ASS, for you will not look from a different vantage point and learn the other person point of view on the subject.”
response 1 : Do you not recognize IRONY when you post it?
response 2 : When was the last time you looked from as different vantage point?
response 3 : “Fear kills more people than death” Whatr is the Terror Warning Color Today?
And Klake, you can kiss my Soldier-loving, Democracy-worshipping, Neo-Con-hating ass.
Klake, I served a 13-month tour with a front-line combat unit in Vietnam, and concluded from my experiences there that war sucks.
Thanks for the link, but I didn’t really need it to understand the gritty details of urban warfare such as you may experience in Mosul. We already have the written and photographic histories of Stalingrad to enlighten us about the nature of urban warfare and its potential for unlimited or at least incalculable horror.
And please understand that any time you invite a discussion about sacrifice, you are also inviting a discussion about vain sacrifice. We know about that from history too, because history is full of it.
I want you to know that, having lived through 60 years of the human condition, I have come to believe that we can’t fight our way to a more noble world. I think reality dictates that we conserve our human and other resources by limiting our fighting to self-defense.
“The daily and weekly casualties leave people feeling that things aren’t going well.”
Gee, and why would they give people that impression? Maybe you guys should have considered the impact that lying to the American public would have on our tolerance for war deaths.
Cindy Sheehan obviously has struck a nerve. The discontent was there; now it has something to rally around — an anguished mother. The right wing noise machine has been on a roll and has gotten used to dominating public debate; perhaps it is now on the verge of getting drowned out by a rising crescendo of vox populi.
If you try to trample on my freedom, klake, you’d best not attempt to “tread on me!” A picture’s worth a thousand words and your “patriotism” is weak and lamebrained. I’d request a transfer if I had to serve with you because you’d talk big and then turn tail and run—like your chickenhawk leaders did in the Vietnam era.
You guys really don’t see it, do you? This lady has either lost her mind with grief or is looking for her 15 minutes or both.
Allegedly, she said, “We are waging a nuclear war in Iraq right now,” a while back.
On one hand, she demands a meeting with the President. On the other, she keeps ramping up the vitriol and says she hopes he DOESN’T meet with her because it keeps her name in the papers.
Protest the war all you want — it’s a free country. But this has become a cult of personality.
Donna @ 16: “…you can kiss my Soldier-loving… ass.”
Clinton said it best: “Don’t ask, don’t tell.”
As usual, a bunch of wierdos gathered alongside the street, and nobody but the left wing press noticed. You guys are rediculous, get a life.
Maybe she means the nuclear bullets that litter Iraq. How would you like your toddler to pick one up and put it in his or her mouth? You won’t be able to spin your retarded Republican asses out of this one. The truth always catches up to you.”For what noble cause did our sons and daughters die?” You don’t have an answer because there isn’t one that will hold water.
Every time you pay for that gallon of gas, consider how much of it is tax and how much you are being GOUGED BY OILMEN LIKE CHENEY AND BUSH. That’s what Cindy Sheehan’s son died for:OIL. And if Bush’s daughters were in Iraq I might believe he’s sincere, but they are doing just like their daddy did when he was young— drinking , drugging and havin’ a good old time while young men like Casey Shehan go to Iraq to die in Bush’s oil war.
And Bush didn’t forget to ELIMINATE THE TAXES ON THE OIL PROFITS that he gets at the expense of our sons and daughters–not his own.
I’ll make sure I clean a gun and check my stockpile of ammo in her name…..
Keep it loaded and near the nightstand, Tom. You may need it sooner than you think…
Mark @21,
No… you don’t get it. Or you do get it, and refuse to admit.
As a grieving mother, Cindy Sheehan is a symbol, and these vigils are not about her, but about what that symbol represents… the grief and anguish of a nation over the blood and treasure wasted on a war whose justification changes with the wind.
You and the other Bushies keep focusing on the person, and ignore the cause. It does not matter what personal flaws she may have, or what her personal motivations might be… her protest has captured the national imagination, and has given a nascent anti-war movement a powerful symbol to rally around.
Call it cynical if you want, but effective PR is effective PR, and it’s just as justifiable for grassroots movements to use it as it is for Republican administrations.
Brainless, witless, shiftless Lucy @ 24: “How would you like your toddler to pick one up and put it in his or her mouth?”
Typical Lefty parent (and I’m sure you’ve got multiple kids with multiple partners)… A real parent wouldn’t let their toddler wander the street alone and unsupervised. Then again, you probably let your filled-diaper toddlers wander the streets while you were sprawled out on the couch in a narcotic haze listening to Pink Floyd on auto-replay.
Goldy @ 28: “her protest has captured the national imagination”
That is quite a stretch. She may have “captured the imagination” of the Far Left, but most of the country is watching because she’s a car wreck in progress.
headless lucy @ 25
Your name says it all. What more could anyone add.
But could you tell me why BJ Clinton:
Drove the price of Alaskan crude oil up by allowing it to be exported?
Balloned profits of Exxon, BP, etc by allowing Alaskan crude oil to be exported.
Allowed TRs oil trust busting to be undone?
One would almost mistake BJ for an oil barron.
Please excuse me if I confused you with the facts.
@21
in addition to what goldy said, this consant insistance that she’s ‘insane’ is pretty damn low.
windie @ 32
I NEVER said “insane.” However, it isn’t unfair to say that she’s emotionally distraught and perhaps vulnerable to suggestion from those who might exploit her grief. She’s HAS said some “insane” things and many of her words and actions don’t match up.
Gary@23:
You, Mark and other neo-constipates have also “noticed” Mrs. Sheehan — in fact, you are OBSESSED with her, so much so that you write screeds and screeds about her. If you are NOT obsessed with her, then stop writing about her.
tom@26: Be careful, son, those things are dangerous. You might shoot yourself. Just remember, the end with the little hole should always be pointed away from human beings.
anti @ 34
A I’m a neo-WHAT? So anyone who disagrees with the Weeping, Wailing Left is a neocon? That just exposes you for the dullard you are. Go look up the definition of “neocon” and come back when you’re ready to talk to the adults.
I’m not obsessed with her in any way. I actually feel sorry for her. She’s had an emotional trauma and has disconnected from reality and civilized discourse (or she’s just another crazy Lefty wanting her 15 minutes of fame).
As I said before, you’re the ones building this cult of personality.
mark@33
fine, you didn’t say ‘insane’ you said ‘lost her mind’…
Thats barely up to the level of arguing semantics
windie @ 36
I said “lost her mind with grief.” Emotionally distraught, etc., etc.
When one complains to friends about rush hour traffic or idiot co-workers and says, “argghh!! I’m losing my mind!” they aren’t saying they’re insane in the clinical sense. It is a level of emotional distress. In Cindy’s case — assuming she isn’t shrewdly faking it for media attention — her level of emotional distress is causing her to say illogical or unreasonable things and/or be influenced by people with an agenda.
on a totally different note, those PI photos are excellent. Good collection.
also, what do you folks think of
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/.....=8/17/2005
The guy that pulled his son’s cross out of the ground because he didn’t think the Crawford protesters were honoring the troops? Thats an interesting tidbit, I think…
also, photo 21 is interesting, if scary… The fat bastard trying to grab the other guy’s sign.
FREE SPEECH IS SCARY TO RIGHTIES!
Yes, Goldy, Cindy is just a symbol. One that was eagerly picked up by the Moveon.org folks to be exploited for their own uses. She now says what they want her to say and goes where they tell her to go. She is their tool.
Did you hear about the mom who drove to the Crawford Circus to remove the cross that had her son’s name on it? No one asked permission to use her son, and she did not want him to be associated with such disrespect. Of course, the left doesn’t care about details like that. It is all about the message. Oh, yeah, and the donations that this is spawning.
Page one of the republifuck play book.
Trash and smear anyone you don’t like the opinions of.
Funny that the right wing whackos can only attack shehan. They can’t seem to come up with any good reasons as to why she’s wrong about the war. All I hear is that she’s a crazy attention whore, blah blah blah. If she’s so wrong, shouldn’t it be easy to tell us why? I don’t really care if you think she’s a bitch. I want to hear all reasons as to why this war is a good idea.
Herb @ 42
The answers to most, but admittedly not all, the things she says are simply “because it isn’t true” or “you’re guessing.” She also speculates on things she knows NOTHING about (e.g. the intricacies of foreign relations & how they impact historical socio-political dynamics).
She can spout whatever conspiracy theories she wants, but that doesn’t make them true.
As for “trash and smear,” what is this website if not “trash and smear anyone to the right of Kucinich?”
Janet@41
If they refused to let her remove her sons name, then maybe you have something…
But I have to ask you, how the hell is memorializing the dead treating them with disrespect?!
I think the beauty of Cindy Sheehan is she is not a smooth political operative. She opens her mouth and makes mistakes. Some of the allegations may or may not be true. But that does not distract from her message. She’s just everyday folk who lost her son and looked at the issue and has decided a call to action is in order. She’s doing the best she can–at a time when emotionally she must be in turmoil. She has lost a son, a marriage ended, family in fighting. But she is staying on course. And yes, the liberal political types will use her to further our cause as she resonates at a deep level with most of us. She calls upon us to consider if this was our child? Would we think the sacrifice worthy? The cause noble? The Bush camp is scared of her and I think they should be. Note that most of the Demo leaders are all to quiet. This protest is starting from the bottom, the grassroots. I like to think it will grow and be another example of “the people will lead and over time the politicians will follow.” I am reminded of other imperfect people who have changed the tide of American history–Martin Luther King, etc. So I applaud Cindy as her actions could lead to some politicians getting a backbone. And perhaps the Bush camp may not see the light in the way I do but re-examine the way they are executing the war. Their blank check with current American support is eroding fast. Note the other family who called for more troops or getting out. That’s a message I think American’s are buying into. Right now it seems like an unwinnable quagmire. I urge you to read the Bob Herbert editorial int he New York Times today. Danny
The problem is, there is no debate. If I try to say anything that supports the actions we are taking in Iraq, I will be shouted down and called all sorts of names. The left is not open to other views. Either agree or be demonized.
There is a large amount of support for what we are doing in Iraq. That support would be greater if there wasn’t the constant drone of bad news from the MSM. I watch the 11:00 news. The ONLY information about Iraq is how many were killed, and if any had a local connection. For many people, this is the only news they get. If the MSM didn’t have an agenda in agreement with the anti-war, we would be hearing what is actually going on over there. Then opinions might be changed.
Okay, go for it – swear at me, call me names, shout me down, whatever. It is really much easier than listening and possibly admitting that there are rational arguments on both sides.
Mark –
I love the smell of depleted uranium in the morning.
Breathe in Mark, breathe, that depleted smell, it smells like…
Garden flowers…
What good news from Iraq?
Janet S – you don’t think too well for yourself. Most of what you write here is just RNC talking points either direct or filtered through Rush or (u)SP.
and positive uplifting stories about Iraq are hard to come by. Link to some if you’d like.
24
Lucy, they aren’t worried about the uranium bullets, any more than they care about the land mines and unexploded ordnance they’ve strewn all over the planet. French farmers still plow up projectiles from the battles of 1914-1918. The deadly detritus of war litters farms and villages for generations to come — the gift that keeps on killing. But I suppose if a French farmer gets blown to bits the right-wing haters would say, “Good!”
Witless Mark @ 29: Why should a parent have to worry about their kid picking one up in the first place? Why can’t kids grow up in towns that don’t have military ordinance lying around in the gardens and foot paths?
In a word — what kind of world are monsters like you creating; and how do you justify creating such a world?
Mark (Again) @ 33
“it isn’t unfair to say that she’s emotionally distraught”
No shit, Sherlock! You would be too, if you got your son back in a cigar box.
Mark (Again!!!) @ 35
“disconnected from … civilized discourse”
And what do you call a person who shills for shooting, stabbing, shredding, perforating, and burning human beings; and beating, biting, choking, sodomizing, strangling, kicking, and whipping them unto death?
Go away, Mark. Just go away.
Mark @ 37
“assuming she isn’t shrewdly faking it for media attention”
You didn’t really say that, did you? Yes … you did.
… You haven’t left yet? Why are you still here?
Comment on 42
We need more bitches to get in their faces. They don’t have enough bitches screaming at them yet. That’s the whole problem — everyone has been too nice to them.
Mark (groan) @ 43
“She also speculates on things she knows NOTHING about (e.g. the intricacies of foreign relations”
WTF do you think Dubya does?
Reading the posts from the Bushites’ apologists on this thread, you’d think that the Bushites and their media friends have never used anyone for their political purposes. I guess they’ve forgotten about Jessica Lynch. And, she never consented to being used. With regard to the various suggestions that those opposed to what is happening in Iraq have closed minds, I would submit that anyone who still has no opinion about whether the invasion was just or not, on either side of the fence, has not been paying attention. Likewise, the evidence that post-invasion planning was woefully inadequate seems rather compelling. Perhaps the only issue left concerning Iraq that we should all approach with an open mind is what to do now. On that issue, I believe that reasonable minds can differ.
The most disturbing thing about the Bushit apologists is they are FOR war and torture.
Roger @ 53: “And what do you call a person who shills for shooting, stabbing, shredding, perforating, and burning human beings; and beating, biting, choking, sodomizing, strangling, kicking, and whipping them unto death?”
Uhh… a give-em-a-hug-not-prison, bleeding-heart, soft-on-crime Leftie?
Allegedly, she said, “We are waging a nuclear war in Iraq right now,” a while back.
Yeah, and allegedly she said her son died for Israel. A lot of people from your side are putting words in her mouth and flat out making shit up.
Roger @ 54: “You haven’t left yet? Why are you still here?”
Roger, that is the smartest thing you’ve said all day and a question I was asking myself. It is clear that nothing — even the truth — will sway you from your partisan foaming-at-the-mouth. So, I’ll let you continue on with your little circle-jerk in peace. I’m sure Goldy will pop off with some other zany post on another topic soon.
Oh yeah, baby! I’m partisan — I’m partisan as hell! Nobody would EVER mistake me for a Republican!!! Yeah baby! You go, Rabid Rabbit!!! :D
MarkyMark – Goodbye and good riddance.
59
Being FOR war is not what normal, healthy, well-adjusted people do.
59 (continued)
Mark, do you masturbate under your coat in dark theaters when you watch war movies? Just curious.
Waht??? Nothing from kkklake-man yet?
I’m shocked. Shocked!!!
Goldy –
It looks like you have a few trolls after you. I generally don’t waste my time trying to argue with them, especially if it turns out to be a flame war.
Some of your slanderous commenters should note the following. Regardless of what they think about the war or Cindy Sheehan, the fact is that like it or not, the validity of the war in IRAQ is now increasingly in question; not by the left, but by the center.
Anyone who attended one of last nights vigils would have noted something quite striking. It wasn’t the usual crowd, instead, independents, undecideds, and non-partisans were out in droves at these vigils. Although the right sorely wants to characterize these vigils as leftist vigils, that simply isn’t what happened. Middle America is beginning to grasp and recognize that something is wrong. And they are starting to get involved.
I just did a google check, for sheehan vigil. There are 4040 newpaper articles listed. The word is getting out.
I think the facts are simple. First we alienated the world. Then we invaded IRAQ, destroyed their military and government. That was pretty much the high point of our efforts. Then we refused to put the rescources into providing security and stability. Regardless of what individual IRAQuis or Americans think, powers that be, in the form of insurgents who are willing to put their lives on the line, are fighting us tooth and nail. We aren’t winning.
Both our troops and equipment ar worn out. It becoming increasingly pointless for the US to fight, as we dont’ know exactly who we should be fighting or why.
Our own commanding General, General Casey, says we are facing a combined troop and equipment meltdown starting next summer. Waving bigger flags faster to support the war in IRAQ is like trying to bail out the titanic with a tin cup. It just isn’t going to happen; there isn’t enough money, our equipment is worn out, and flag wavers are too preoccupied to join up themselves.
Although I never did support the war on IRAQ, I do beleive it could have been won if the GOP had been willing to listen to the military and use more troops, and go about it in a methodical manner; or much better yet, to have contained and deposed Saddam, without destroying the country, military, or government. But due to Bush’s childlike execution of the war, IRAQ is now broken, and he can’t fix it. General Powell’s analogy to Humpty Dumpty was spot on. We broke it, period.
WOW!
All this scrutiny of every word Cindy Sheehan speaks, and yet, no one, left, right, MSM, or Fox scrutinized one word Bush said in the run up to the war.
I find the irony sickening.
Here’s a woman of no real power or influence challenging Bush’s wisdom in deciding to take our nation to war. And, she finds herself being under the proverbial microscope. Bush, on the other hand gets a free pass from having to explain his shifting reasons for going to war. The worse part is that he cannot find 30 minutes out of his 5 week vacation to talk with her and put this behind him?
The real lesson Cindy Sheehan is teaching all of us is never take your liberties for granted, exercise them vigorously, and stand your ground. Even if the people who disagree with you smear your good name, drag your personal affairs through the media, smash memorials to the dead,and tell you that you are dishonoring your fallen son.
For when you do you can slay any Goliath.
GBS: Since I value your thought processes over most asses horses; remember the “circle flies” commentary ladies and gentlemen, navigate to the Open Thread post 186 and read the information presented by the link. I want your opinion. Read all the other links. It will take some time. You are level-headed. Other leftiess are shit shovelers here.
Puddybud,
I’ll do that, but in all honesty not today. I’ve got a ton of things on my plate today. I can only pop in HA to occasionally gouge a few righties in the eye.
It’s a hit-n-run day. Know what I mean?
WOW! How impressive! A couple “vigils” right out of the daily kos marching orders that couldn’t even draw more people than what occupies a single medium sized apartment building on capitol hill. What an incredible display of the “overwhelming” public support for ms. media Sheehan. (Oppps, I almost forgot, mother Sheehan) Most of you daily display that you are dellusional, but now some of you are outright hallucinating.
A couple “vigils”
1,627 to be exact.
FAGDI @ 71
While you’re guzzling the conservative, crack flavored Kool-aid by the gallons, can you tell me how many counter protests are being held around the country?
Goldy @28
You said Ms. Sheehan is a symbol of what? The grief is certainly real by any parent who ends up burying their own child, but to choose one as your “symbol” negates the collective experience.
Ms. Sheehan has been visited with a horror I hope never to be part of, but she clearly has been touched by the madness of loss, not to mention the madness of her ever-present benefactors.
I hope her mother is ok, too, but then, I never would have had cause to be concerned over her mother if not for the anti-whatever crowd pushing Ms. Sheehan’s agenda.
Waht??? Nothing from kkklake-man yet?
I’m shocked. Shocked!!!
Comment by rujax206— 8/18/05 @ 1:15 pm
Hi rujax206 did you have a great day today and did it look different than yeasterday, did you grow a little more today?Did you check out that web site I post yesterday and what great wisdom did you gain from it? Did you do a gut check today, and help some old lady across the street? WHAT IS YOU REAL FEAR? Headless Lucy do I know You, did you live in Blegrad, Yugo? The one thing that is great about this web site is that Political Correctness isn’t alive and well. That might be due to Bin Laudin fine work in New York that some of folks seem to support with all you Heart. You should leave Seattle and meet some new friends over Seas. Oh! Roger Rabbit you should change your name that matches you personality, if you need someone to talk about Nam I’m open. You left with some real problems that can be resolved, but you need to get it out on the table.Remember that Custer got his Ass Kick at Little Big Horn by a few Indians who was smarter than some of you Folks. You can’t win a war by violateing the principles of war for they haven’t change in centuries. God Bless you to headless Lucy
A couple broadly pointed comments.
First, depleted uranium is not radioactive in the normal sense. it is used in civilian applications such as sailboat keels. The health risk of it are under dispute, because most scientific studies have found no link to health effects. It may only have the same effects regarding toxicity as lead. Just for your info.
2, land mines. Saddam had the countryside blanketed with mines long before we got there, that is documented. I would wager the US has cleared and removed far more then we have placed.
3, the vigils are wonderful excercises of free speech. I want peace as much as anyone, but that is not the same as pull the troops now. Just a point of clrification.
GBS, my friend, it is not like anyone in the media and the world at large has not criticised the administration about the intelligence mistakes that led to the war. Plenty of people have.
That’s why the Cindy show in texas has no real interest to me, it isn’t news. Its the same stuff MM and moveon have been saying for years.
And let me add this, if she wanted an honest dialogue on the war I would be the first one to support it, but when she uses obvious exagerations it makes me ignore her as much as any extremist who sacrifices logic for sensational headlines.
Maybe some good will come of it, but only because they ised her as a human shield hiding the issues behind her grief.
And finally, someone (windie?) mentioned asking how the memorial of crosses was a disrespect. It was disrespectful because the people who made the memorial did so not to memorialize their service, but to make the statement that they died for nothing. The families of some of those soldiers, and I hear two have removed the names, are proud of their children’s service and sacrifice, so to use them to show it was for naught was as bad as the complaints I heard about Jessica Lynch being used to draw support by the military.
Finally, the moms that support the war are hheading to crawford to counter protest.
Tell me free speech protectors, will they have the right to equal air time? Or will they be ignored in favor of a juicier story.
karl @76
Tell me free speech protectors, will they have the right to equal air time? Or will they be ignored in favor of a juicier story.
Perhaps they will suffer the same bitterness as Mark:
MarkyMark – Goodbye and good riddance.
Comment by fire_one— 8/18/05 @ 12:59 pm
Too bad, so sad, MOVEON.ORG…
Mark, do you masturbate under your coat in dark theaters when you watch war movies? Just curious.
Comment by Roger Rabbit— 8/18/05 @ 1:05 pm
R
Do you mean like a lefty does over an aborted fetus,a starving invalid or a dead person who just voted? I just want clarification.
oookay
Klake: Nice word-salad response there. Can you tighten it up and repost? Its hard to get what you’re getting at ;)
Karl: There you go again, making up other peoples motivations for doing things. Were you there talking to the people that set up those crosses, to ask them what their intention was? I s’pose its eaiser to just assume the worst and go on slamming people…
Mark@34:
1. Reread that post more carefully. I did not refer to you as a “neocon.” I referred to you as a “neo-constipate.”
2. You’re still obsessing about Mrs. Sheehan.
Janet@46:
I for one will not shout you down if you make an intelligent argument that is built around facts and presented in a rational manner. But the cacophony of deceit that surrounds much of the “argument” for this devastating war is more than I can put up with. So have it. I’m waiting. We’re ALL waiting.
Windie,
I am not making anything up, and am evaluating the purpose based on thier statements and actions.
it is clear by her and others comments they wanted to make a display to show the senseless dead their cause claims.
And honestly, that was their right. It wasn’t something I personally condone, but it is free speech and as long as the property owner agrees, its perfectly legal.
But the parents who removed thier loved ones had the right to disagree with the use of their names, and to ask they not be included.
The fact that they peacefully confronted the protesters and the protesters allowed to remove the crosses/names, that was the right thing to do on all sides.
But it isn’t right for you to challange their offense. After all, you don’t want to try and challange their absolute moral authority, ala Dowd.
I take it as encouraging that there was no blistering confrontation. Two opposite views disagreed and then went seperate ways.
oh, I agree totally. The fact that they came peacefully is good, and the fact that the ‘vigil-ers’ let them take out the cosses is also really good :)
But, with all due respect, I find it hard to believe that its really ‘your’ analysis of what they’re saying… But rather the machine’s analysis, which you’ve bought into.
They’ve done nothing remotely disrespectful of those who’ve died.
I disagree about the disrespect.
Maybe I take it personally being a vet.
He volunteered to do something amny other wouldnt. he reenlisted during a war, knowing he would be deployed.
WHen he got to Iraq, he was a mechanic, and didnt have to enter the hostile zone, but volunteered to help rescue his fellow marines.
he made two choices and they show he believed in something.
Now his mother doesnt beleive in those things, so to her his entire service impcomprehensible, so she tells people he was tricked and coerced into going, that he went for college money, and that he was murdered.
He was 24 year old man, but she acts like he was 16 and lied about his age.
She takes his choices and reduces them to nothing.
She takes his actions and says they are meaningless. To me and alot of vets i know, that is disrespect.
I’ll grant it may be a cultural thing, but thats how i see it.
She takes his honor and committment, and reduces it to a protest.