Ouch. From The Spokesman-Review:
Washington’s state government – which pays for schools, prisons, colleges, last-resort medical coverage for the poor and hundreds of other things — now faces a $4.6 billion budget shortfall over the next two year, state officials say.
That’s up $1.4 billion from what was expected just two months ago.
Now that we’re facing nearly unprecedented economic woes in this country, and with consumer spending in the tank, it’s utterly predictable that a system of taxation that relies so heavily on regressive taxes on consumers will basically break down.
Yeah, I know. Don’t touch that third rail (income tax) or you’ll be electrocuted. Far better to dismantle the state’s education system, that will fix things. Is there no way to move forward with tax reform by ditching awful things like the business and occupation tax and reducing sales and property taxes? It’s impossible no matter what forever and ever and ever?
Okay, hope you liked that educated workforce, it was neat while it lasted. Now start chopping those universities and community colleges!
I thought Gregoire swore that there was no projected budget shortfall. Did she lie to get reelected?
Troll @1,
No, she swore that there was no current budget deficit. And there isn’t. There’s a surplus.
Every two years the governor and the legislature take the revenue forecasts and attempt to draft a balanced budget. And that’s what they will do in the coming session. Indeed, the fact that Washington is one of the few states not to show a deficit at this time is credit to our state government’s forecasting and discipline.
Going after community colleges would probably be the one thing that would unite Republican and Democratic state legislators – by demanding it be stopped dead in its tracks.
I’m not arguing the point of this post, regressive taxes are just that but complaining about the B&O Tax is absurd. Is it really so bad paying $1.80 per thousand dollars income? No, it isn’t.
@1: No – you lied.
She said it was a projected shortfall not a deficit and she is right. Are you too stupid to understand plain English or do you just ask pathetically dumb questions to be annoying?
Please – just go away and play with your third grade counterparts and leave the political ananlysis to people mature enough to not deliberately ask provacatively stupid questions that are lies.
@3: Palamedes:
I think you are saying that republicans and democrats would rally to protect community colleges from failing to take everyone and offer sufficient classes in a recession (for worker retraining) due to budget cuts?
@4: Actually, I agree about changes the tax structure on both counts:
I want an income tax – but ONLY if we completely outlaw ANY sales tax (like Oregon).
Also, I want to get rid of the B+O tax and replace it with a tax on profits (with some minimum base). The most profitable businesses should pay the most.
@5
One thing we like to do on this blog, which I feel I helped build, is to stick to the issues. There are plenty of other blogs where flame wars and name calling is tolerated in the comment section. This is not one of them. If you can’t abide by our rules, perhaps this isn’t the blog for you.
Indeed, the fact that Washington is one of the few states not to show a deficit at this time is credit to our state government’s forecasting and discipline.
——————–
According to the Seattle Times the shortfall is closer to $5 billion because of a projected half billion shortfall in the current budget (I’ll leave it to others to argue whether this means the current budget is actually balanced.). And these numbers could be conservative depending on the depth and length of the recession (in a mere two months the projected shortfall has increased by a whopping 56%).
Since the Governor ran a campaign that pledged not to raise taxes, this means there’s going to be an awful lot of deep cutting . . . and some pretty unhappy groups, with higher education being right up there at the top of the list.
It will be very interesting to see if the Governor keeps her pledge.
@8: hahaha
You had and have no role on this blog and I have been here much longer than your little ignorant butt has been sitting at a keyboard.
Go back to your jungle gym little girl!
@9: Of course you are forgetting the rainy day fund – so there is no current shortfall. there is a projected shortfall and Washington state will be hit like every other state (see Califonia) – but less and later thanks to our economy and governor.
I feel much more confident having Gregoire who is transparent than Rossi who lies and is incompetent with numbers. Yes, there will be tough times – but we will get a real-world explanation for the actions – not some fantasy numbers and empty promises ala Rossi.
If there is no defecit, only a “projected” shortfall, then now is the perfect time to trim back some of that increased spending that Gov gregoire engaged in since 2004.
“projected” budget defecit = cut spending….
With the economy being in the tank, too, it doesn’t make any sense to cut at the community colleges, where people are going to get the training they need to be successful in the workforce.
At one point I thought there used to be a “hold harmless” theory towards the community colleges, where the legislature would do their best to insulate them from the vicissitudes of the state budget. That is the way it should be.
re 12: Everyone agrees that there needs to be spending cuts as a short term solution. It’s what to cut that is the nub of the problem.
What you people don’t seem to quite grasp is that it is not government that is weakened to the point of being drowned in the bathtub, but business.
Cut government spending at this point and you destroy the ‘private sector’.
So how do we slash 15% of the state budget next year?
Far too much whining in here about the tax system in Washington! For starters, taxes here are lower than most places. More importantly, the package of taxes those whom we elected settled on is neither “broken” nor “stupid.”
The word regressive always is misused by the wingnuts. Sales taxes are not that bad, and the Microsofties of our region pay most of them. Sales taxes are voluntary: you don’t have to buy the $500 leather coat – a coat on sale for $35 will do just fine. Spend less, pay less. Nothing complicated about it. It’s better for all of us if you spend less on cheap imported stuff you probably don’t need. There’s one word for the voters’ approval of Prop. 1 and its investments, despite the fact that some sales taxes are involved: smart and far-sighted (ok, that’s two of ’em).
Got an idea for a better revenue alternative? I guarantee you it’ll go nowhere. There’s no political will for anything but the options the public will accept. For example, and even given that it would reduce congestion, we aren’t going to see road tolling on any scale. Plus, something like that is bad policy. Nothing could be more regressive than taxing some poor schmuck just because he has to drive 25 miles (from where he barely managed to qualify) to get to the workplace his boss chose. Tolls like that are the epitome of regressive.
This was the educated workforce? Ugh, we really are in trouble.
@6:
The community colleges are the easiest means by which training can be provided for jobs local to the given community. Running them and teaching at them also means jobs for said community. State legislators of any stripe are not going to want to see “their” community college(s) take a big hit on their watch.
But they don’t come cheap, and we have a lot of them. Because of the perception that we fund both the community colleges and the four-year colleges out of the same pot (I don’t know if that’s accurate), places like the UW despise the community colleges, to the extent that they don’t think much of Running Start students, or of students who tried to get as much as they could of their first two years accomplished close to home.
On top of that, we tend to run the four-year colleges around the idea of keeping entry costs as low as possible, so tuition at UW or WSU is cheap compared to the public Big Ten school where I went. So that’s another direction from which price/cost pressures are applied to state public four-year colleges.
One possible path might be to mandate that your first two years of college in the public system MUST be through the community colleges, with places like UW and WSU being for the last two years plus graduate studies. (I don’t think places like WWU or EWU would like that idea, though.)
Opinions?
But we already pay income taxes at the federal level, and unlike in most western countries, there is no federal sales tax or value added tax. Washington then has a sales tax and property taxes. Call me crazy, but it makes sense for taxes to be spread around. The federal government taxes income, and the state government taxes sales and property.
Jeremy @ 16: The current tax system was already antiquated over a half century ago. Washington State is among the few states left not to have a state income tax. Reliance on state sales taxes have forced the State to into the ridiculous attempt to collect sales tax on internet sales and distribute the receipts on a “ship-to” location basis with other sales-tax states, an unconscionable burden on small internet-based businesses (care to guess what the local sales tax rate is in a particular suburb of Podunk, Alabama, before finalizing the sale?).
And for your information, a “wingnut” is a far-right wing neo-con Republican who’s political ideology is based upon turning back the clock to the 1950’s. A wingnut would not be complaining about a regressive tax. A wingnut would be in favor of a regressive tax.
I recall George W. Bush spent a lot of time flapping his gums about community colleges, at least during his first term. My impression was that he believed they’d be the most efficient way for the common folks’ kids to be quickly trained in Burger Flippology or Advanced Cash Register Operations, leaving the fancier four-year institutions to be the domain of upper-class twits like himself.
20 “And for your information, a “wingnut” is a far-right wing neo-con Republican who’s political ideology is based upon turning back the clock to the 1950’s.”
The 1950’s, my ass. Try the 1890’s, or maybe the 14th century.
In the 14th century they still had the Magna Carta.
Goldy–
This Biennium’s “surplus” is also shrinking.
Amazing that Election Night, both Gary Locke and Locke’s Budget Director told us the $3.2 Deficit for the next biennium (THAT WAS THEIR WORDS!) was really around $4.5 BILLION! Keep voters in the dark is Gregoire’s motto.
You seem to focus on this upcoming deficit as a “revenue shortfall” issue…Has it dawned on you Goldy that increasing spending $8 BILLION or 33% in 4 years in the face of a recession is a SPENDING ISSUE.
You are coyly trying to make a State Income Tax a “fairness issue” when it is merely a TAX INCREASE. Keep going down that path.
I have said many times, if re-elected, Gregoire will PRETEND to be reducing expenses…Locke’s Budget Director said Gregoire’s actions to date were INSIGNIFICANT.
Then, Greoire will propose Draconian cuts into areas people yearn for like Parks & Rec.
Then she will tell us she has heard from voters that they want to vote on a TAX INCREASE! This is called Extortion or a Con Job.
Voters will reject any tax increase Goldy…guaranteed.
This is a F*CKING Recession you idiots. Gregoire needs to layoff 10,000+ State Workers. None of this hour cutting horseshit either. State Diamond Benefits average nearly 40% of salary when you factor in paid time-off.
Let the Lay-offs begin!
A wingnut would be in favor of a regressive tax.
Interesting logic you employ – if sales taxes are “regressive” and favored by “wingnuts,” then you must think the landslide victory of Prop. 1 is due to all the wingnuts in our region, right?
And another thing @20 – the current tax system was not “antiquated over a half century ago” as you seem to think. As an example, the sales tax we just approved was given to Sound Transit by our elected officials in the legislature in 1990. It’s a new tax, for a new agency.
The public in this region in 2008 obviously does not agree with your creative views about how revenues should be raised :)! It’d take a constitutional amendment for the state to start imposing an income tax, and hell’ll freeze over before that happens.
The DOW closed under 8,000.
You idiots should have been following my advice…
Zero Debt, rural living, lots of food (2 freezers & a huge pantry), weapons and cheap power. Self-sustaining.
No money in market…looking at it again tomorrow however. Own Gold & Silver.
With more dry powder than we will ever need.
Enjoy that MetroSexual, Urban Living KLOWNS.
Where’s William Gates, Sr. and his analysis of our need for an income tax?
Seems as though that option fell to ill winds several years ago…
Off topic, but too good to pass up:
Source: Cheney, Gonzales indicted in Texas
And in related (but more dissapointing) news, The U.S. Justice Dept. has agreed to pay for a private attorney to defend Gonzales from charges that he illegally used his position to inject partisonship into the Dept.’s hiring and firing practices.
Source: Public to Pay for Gonzales’ Lawyer
Gee, a lawyer within the civil division of the justice department, or a public defender, isn’t good enough for him? We have to pay to prosecute him and defend him at the same time? I say, let him wait in line for a public defender – he can meet him for the first time at the arraignment, and then have a fifteen minute conversation with him again right before the trial, like every other defendant in non-capital cases. Gonzales didn’t see any problem with that system before, why should he complain now?
From that bastion of far-left thinking The Economist:
http://www.economist.com/world.....d=12599247
And the wingnuts wonder why they were rejected in 2006 and 2008?
re 26: Lock the doors — and don’t come out.
Cynical @ 26: Gee, I thought you were telling us that it was a great time to buy stock, when the Dow was in the 10,000 range!!!!!??????
What the FUCK are you talking about.
What’s this WE bullshit.
And just WHO THE FUCK do you think YOU are?
YOU built WHAT???? You own this blog now? You do ANYTHING other than spout racist, homophobic christianist tripe?
You are a black hole the SUCKS life force from wherever you are, you miserable asswipe.
My GAWD what a doooofus.
So, with the DJIA closing at 7,997.28 today, the George W. Bush administration has presided over a 23.88% drop in the stock market over the past seven years and ten months it has been in charge. It’s incredible. I wouldn’t have dreamed it were possible. This achievement DWARFS the (bad) performance of all other Presidents in the last century, except perhaps for Herbert Hoover.
So much for Bush’s pledge to “Grow the Economy”. And all but a fraction of that loss occured during his SECOND term, so he can’t blame it on Clinton, the dot.com bust, or 9/11 (at the end of his first term, the DJIA had posted only a -0.78% performance during the preceeding four years). No, this pile of dung can be laid right at the door of the Republican philosophy of looking out for the rich, ignoring the plight of the rest, and de-regulating everything in site.
It just goes to show, that if you want to hire someone to manage your government, perhaps you shouldn’t hire someone from a party which professes to hate government. Looks like the Republican neo-cons were successful in their goal to “starve the government until it’s too weak to resist, and then drown it in the bathtub”. Looks like there was a lot of collateral damage inherent in that tactic.
31. rhp6033 spews:
I said Day-Trading rhp. Buying on big dips. I documented what I did. I only held Wells Fargo for long-term, because of the Dividend, but sold it before the Election.
You can always find some Gold Nuggets, even in a down market. I made 15 short-term trades this year..and profit of over $100,000. I sold my long-term positions in May, 2007…when the market 1st hit 14,000. Life is good. You KLOWNS don’t want to hear my advice so I stopped sharing my trades..however, nothing to share lately.
I did share a 5 year, 5-3/4% Annuity that is very solid and supported by a government Guarantee Fund…but no one wanted details. The rate will change after this Friday…not sure to what. $100,000 minimum.
Yep, Troll seems to think rather highly of himself, doesn’t he?
Next he’s going to take credit for the Emancipation Proclamation.
President Obama,
Make our day and jack up short term capital gains taxes really really high retroactive to this year.
We need to pay off the Chimp war debt.
Jeremy @ 25: new taxes have to piggy-back onto our existing tax system, hence the choice of a new regressive tax, or no tax at all.
The difficulty in enacting a better tax system isn’t an excuse to refuse to consider it entirely. If we followed your logic, our nation would still be 13 colonies on the easten seaboard, and slavery would still exist.
But our nation expanded from coast to coast, fought a civil war, helped defeat the Nazis and Japan at the same time, and put men on the moon. If we can do all that, I don’t see any reason why we can’t produce a more reasonable tax system in our state, regardless of the hurdles it might require.
36. YLB spews:
I know your “dream” is to punish folks like me…but retroactive Tax Increases will never happen…only Retroactive Tax Decreases. Sorry to spoil your dream. I’m already paying 35% on those ST Gains YLB. Same as I pay on earned income.
If ST Capital Gains Taxes were say 50%, I would not play the game.
Looking ahead at the next DJIA benchmark:
The DJIA closed at 6,893.13 at the end of Clinton’s FIRST term in office. I used to think that it was IMPOSSIBLE for the economy under George W. Bush to reach that level. But with the DJIA closing at 7,997.28 today, and with frequent 400 and 500 point swings a day, I no longer consider that to be improbable.
Gee, Saddam stayed in power in Iraq while George H.W. Bush lost to Clinton. So his son, George W. Bush went to war in Iraq to get rid of Saddam – killing tens or hundreds of thousands of Iraqis in the process. And now he’s trying to erase the Clinton economic legacy by killing the American economy, also????
It’s hard to believe so many “Educated” Americans got themselves caught with poor investments and high debt. They were “educated” in our highly expensive colleges Jon wants to save????
YIKES!
Perhaps our colleges are not teaching students the right things?
I’m just sayin’!
@1 Are you stupid, or a liar? How many times does this has to be explained to you? Even a stupid person usually manages to absorb information by the 5th or 6th try, so in your case, I think I’ll opt for the “liar” explanation.
Cynical,
So you’re going pay 35 large in federal taxes.
Great. Let’s make it 70. 30k is respectable compensation for flipping chits.
The Chicoms are owed a lot of change for helping us dig a hole for ourselves.
Feel proud to have consented to that?
Great. Pay up.
@41, see @8
My memo to the comment section applies to you, too.
Let’s look at the revenue structures and budgets of all the state’s that are successfully avoiding shortfall’s this year wo we learn how we could manage better….oh,wait nevermind.
Wow the stock market is so down….
According to Bush-loving logic, we need more tax cuts on the rich with a little check to all us middle class shlubs to buy our consent.
I mean day-trading is such economy building activity.
Dear Stupid Little Bitch @ 43…
I was here WAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYY before you “dearie”.
Fuck.
Off.
Asshole.
Let’s make something clear. State tax reform is about fairness, not more revenue. Under Washington’s Rube Goldberg tax system, the poor pay 17% of their income in local/state taxes while the affluent pay only 4%. The purpose of a state income tax is to fix this. It’s not a panacea for budget woes. Under a state income tax, revenue would still fall in a recession because the state’s population is earning less. Enacting it won’t prevent painful budget cuts in times like these.
Unfortunately, higher education is one of the very few discretionary spending items where large reductions are achievable. Nearly half the state budget goes to K-12 education, and most of the rest is spent on things like prisons, transportation, and Medicaid nursing home care. And transportation is paid for with dedicated taxes that can’t legally be spent elsewhere.
Unfortunately, when state revenues tank, the governor’s and legislature’s options are limited. Unless you want to release dangerous felons from prisons or put elderly nursing home patients out on the curb, the only way you can preserve K-12 education is by cutting spending on higher education, medical care for the poor, and freezing salaries for state employees and teachers.
Although the state doesn’t negotiate directly with teachers, school districts and teachers shouldn’t expect the state to come up with more money for teachers when state employees are getting nothing. It isn’t fair to state workers to take away from them to give to teachers. If school districts want to pay teachers more in difficult times when the state faces a severe revenue shortfall, the money should come from local voter-approved levies.
@4 “Is it really so bad paying $1.80 per thousand dollars income? No, it isn’t.”
Yes, it is, if you own a startup or struggling small business. Let’s say your business grosses $250,000 a year and is breaking even. That’s $450 a year in taxes you have to pay from your own pocket for a business that isn’t earning a dime. By itself, that might not be enough to put you out of business, but it’s another nail in the coffin lid.
@7 Under the most common income tax proposal, under the 6.5% state sales tax would be repealed. Here in King County, you would still have about 3% of local and transit sales taxes being collected. If the legislature repealed the local sales tax as well, that would have to be replaced with another tax in addition to the state income tax.
@5 Aw hell, let him play his games (see, e.g., #8). After Nov. 4, it’s all he’s got left.
@12 “If there is no defecit, only a ‘projected’ shortfall, then now is the perfect time to trim back some of that increased spending that Gov gregoire engaged in since 2004.”
She thought of this before you did by, oh, about a year.
Gregoire is a parasite, liar, racist, and crook. She needs to be in jail, not public office.
@16 Real-life revenue statistics say your argument is bullshit. Anytime you have the poorest 20% of the population paying 17% of their income to local/state taxes, while the richest 20% pays only 4%, you have a serious misallocation of tax burden. The truth is that Washington’s tax system, which is the most regressive in the nation, is utterly indefensible. So don’t try to defend it or you’ll end up looking like a fool.
@26 Having read your investment advice for some time, Cynical, I figured you’d end up living off the land but I didn’t expect it to happen this soon.
@26 (continued) Folks, what we have here is a Republican advocating that America return to a hunting and gathering economy. To Mr. Cynical, this represents progress.
@25 Hell may freeze over before we get a state income tax, but that doesn’t make the current hodgepodge of state and local taxes that were grafted into law by a succession of legislatures over a period of more than 100 years anything but the patchwork, jury-rigged, regressive and unfair, small business-destroying mess of goo that it is.
@47 Thoughtful post. On this:
“The purpose of a state income tax is to fix this. It’s not a panacea for budget woes.”
states everywhere are facing big budget problems, including those with income taxes. Connecticut, for example, with a much smaller population than ours is facing a $6 billion deficit over the next two years.
@38 “I know your “dream” is to punish folks like me…”
Wrong. First of all, you’re too small and inconsequential to be affected by tax changes. What I mean is, how can we get taxes out of someone who lives on berries and roots?
Second, the object is not to “punish” the rich for not working, but to stop punishing the non-rich for working. A hedge fund manager making over $1 billion a year (e.g., George Soros) pays a maximum tax rate of 15%. A worker making $50,000 a year pays a marginal rate of 32.65% (25% income tax + 7.65% FICA). Why the hell should anyone work under a tax system like that??!! More to the point, when you tax people twice as much for working as you tax them for flipping real estate and stocks, you’ll destroy the incentive to perform productive work and end up with a bunch of lazy rabbits who sit on their fat asses all day flipping stocks and producing nothing. I mean, why the fuck should I work under your Republican tax system that rewards people for pushing money around in circles and punishes people for doing productive work? I refuse to do any work under a system like that.
President Obama’s tax reform wouldn’t even make the tax rates equal for rich capitalists and poor workers. Not even close. It would only close the gap slightly, but the tax system will still heavily favor the asset owning classes and penalize the working class. And this is what the wingnut whiners call “socialism” and “redistribution”?!!
Of course, redistribution of wealth has been going on for a long time in this country, and Republicans are its foremost practitioners. They have used tax policies and government subsidies to take the fruits of our labor and redistribute it to themselves.
@44 “Let’s look at the revenue structures and budgets of all the state’s that are successfully avoiding shortfall’s this year wo we learn how we could manage better….oh,wait nevermind.”
It’s a simple formula, Janet Simpleton: Small population + big oil and gas reserves. I can think of 3 states that might fit that category: Alaska, Wyoming, and Oklahoma.
@52 You’re confusing her with Ted Stevens and the rest of the corrupt lying GOP gang.
rr @ 47: Actually, I think a state income tax IS a bit less subject to the ups and downs of economic cycles.
Sure, less personal and corporate income would mean a decrease in personal revenue. But for most of us, income continues to come in even during a rescessionary cycle.
In contrast, however, sales tax revenues go down, even if the individual hasn’t lost their job, or suffered a reduction in personal income. That’s because the CONCERN over the potential loss of a job causes taxpayers to defer any significant discretionary purchases until the economy improves, which creates a resounding echo throuout the economy. (This, in turn, tends to make fears of a rescession a self-fulfilling prophecy).
Anyway, when times are bad are when government services are most needed. Yet under our current system tax revenues are MOST likely to decline right before those government services are needed. The income tax is a LITTLE better at keeping a solid revenue stream, so that the government doesn’t have to add it’s own layoffs to compound those in the private sector.
Troll @ 52: You tried that argument, in the election campaign.
She won. We won. You lost. Get used to it.
Sounds more like our spending system is broken.
Troll – your right wing agenda was defeated.
Hey Jeremy what is more regressive than a tax that taxes someone who makes 20,000 dollars a year and a person who makes 100,000 dollars a year the same ? Sales tax! Fucknut.
State income tax is fair.
With a salary like this:
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/.....ert13.html
@26
Sure you’re self-sustaining as long as you ride a horse! How far do you have to drive to by a light-bulb? I have quite a few options for light-bulb shopping within biking rage of my house.
With violent crime running at 1.82/1,000 for my zip code I don’t see much need for a gun, except maybe to plink at tin cans.
@ 8
I think Troll is off it’s Meds and declaring itself as a “HA Moderator”.
Really Goldy/Lee/Will/whomever. Can’t you find a MediSet to dispense and get Troll back on track? They sell them cheap @ 2nd hand stores. Don’t bother to wash it, if Troll comes down with Mad Cow Disease or whatever, Troll won’t be posting much differently anyways. Just a thought here.
Actually Gregoire and the Democrats merely won a battle. The WAR is about the upcoming tax increase. I believe there will be massive, bi-partisan opposition. Gregoire and the Democrat-controlled Legislature will end up sitting in “power seats” with no money. They have no idea how to downsize State Government.
$5.1 BILLION Shortfall and the Rainy Day Fund evaporating.
Great job idiots.
Blaming Bush will not cut it.
We need to:
1) Rollback all salary & benefit increases to 2000 levels. We are experiencing “deflation”. Why should State Employees BENEFIT during this recession??
2) Eliminate Department of Ecology
3) Eliminate Dept of Public Instruction.
4) Eliminate GMA
We must cut 15,000 State Employees. Gregoire’s procrastination has made things even worse then they needed to be.
HELL NO to any tax increase!
Y’all figure it out.
HINT: Tax increases fail during a recession…no matter how you try to sugar-coat them.
69 – Bill Clinton’s tax increases on the rich did NOT collapse the economy as the right wing claimed and by the end of his term left the country in fiscal surplus.
[Deleted – Dup]
69 – That list is the BIAW’s dream!!!
Need any further proof of Cyn’s “associations”?
67. michael spews:
Michael–
No need for guns?? Please tell us where you live. Remember, I have a very simple survival kit consisting of a 9mm. Glock, lots of ammo and a small bottle of water.
The small bottle of water is just in case I get thirsty walking over to your place to steal all your shit!
The crime rate will soon be skyrocketing dumba$$. It’s a natural consequence of this deep recession.
I am very self-sustained.
I have 100 gallons of gasoline stored.
I have a huge pantry loaded with canned goods and other staples.
I have 2 freezers…1 filled with meat, fish & chicken. The other filled with frozen veggies & fruit and other tasty stuff.
I have zero debt and lots of cash & gold/silver.
We are in great health and have a neighbor who is a Doctor and 2 RN’s.
You idiots living the Metrosexual, Urban lifestyle are in for a shocker. High crime and very depressing. Microsoft stock is down around 18. Starbucks around 8.
Wake-up KLOWNS. You are in a dream world if you think an income tax will pass….and even if it did, what would the tax rate be??
All you KLOWNS want is to sustain costly, over-reaching State Government at any cost. Ain’t gonna happen.
Big State Income Tax??
Manufacturing businesses will flee the state.
You KLOWNS fail to connect the dots and even think for a second about the unwanted consequences of your proposed actions.
I have been preparing you for this for a couple of years. Go ahead & spew your rants. I’m doin’ fine…so is my family and most of my friends.
You TALK about sustainability.
I actually sacrificed, planned and am living it!!
You are a bunch of NEO-Progressives.
You aren’t Progressive at all.
You rely waaaaaaaay too much on costly government.
Idiots.
69 – Rolling back salaries!!! Great. They can afford it because of “deflation”.
Who does deflation hurt the most? Debtors. Most people carry some debt.
Where are they going to go? The 43 other states that have an income tax?
Or the remaining backwaters that don’t.
I’d think they’d care more about business taxes which will have to be reformed so an income tax could pass.
As usual your spew makes little to no sense.
Christ, Cynical, are you still making up that shit about being a rich investor living on your Montana ranch, all while posting stupid crap all day long on Western Washington political blogs? You have no ranch. You have no investments. All you are is a stupid fucking psychotic twit who’s simply too delusionally wrapped up in your insecurities and inadequacies to have even one foot in the real world the rest of us live in. Loser.
Steve–
Envy & jealousy are sins.
I’ll pray for you brother.
75. YLB spews:
Big State Income Tax??
Manufacturing businesses will flee the state.
YLB–
You don’t seem to understand….there are a lot fewer Rich People than a couple of years.
$32 TRILLION of Equity reductions due to worldwide stock market’s tanking.
Probably more than that in Real Estate deflation.
A new economy will emerge. States will either get competitive and lead…or become the next “backwater”..as you call it. Manufacturing businesses are flocking to Texas, Alabama and other Southern States due to Right To Work Laws. Taxes will be the last straw for others. I personally know businesses with plans to head South taking key employees. Watch. Washington’s only real plum to offer business is no Income Tax. It is why many are here.
YLB, you don’t get it because you don’t want to get it. What kind of work do you do and what is your education in??
Perhaps that explains your massive intellectual void. You seem to belive that everything revolves around the need of State Government…rather than around the needs of taxpayers. The worm is turning….thankfully.
Will Washington lead…or be trampled by it’s own failed ideology?? Time will tell.
Without that massive tax increase…Gregoire is screwed.
Deleted by author, clicked submit waayy too early. Time to make some coffee.
You’re fucking delusional, Cynical. Nobody believes the shallow and insipid bullshit you post. Oh, and I’m not your fucking “brother”, you worthless, lying piece of shit.
Steve–
I’ll add anger & vulgarity to my prayer list.
@78 “It is why many are here.”
Can’t you keep you fucking lies straight? Somebody living on a Montana ranch would say, “It’s why many are there.”
Everything you post is a damned lie. You know it. I know it. Everybody here knows it.
@81 To hell with you and your prayers, you lying goatfucker. We all understand that the reason you feel the need to lie and brag about the quality of your made-up bullshit life of ranching and investing is because your real life sucks.
Steve–
I own several homes…including Washington.
Your envy, jealousy, anger is eating you up man. We are called to love our enemies as ourselves. You are not my enemy. Just a lost, misguided soul who is boiling over with rage. You can turn it around Steve. Best wishes…you are in my prayers.
@69
Yeah, we’ll get right on that. Idiot.
@84 “envy, jealousy, anger”
You couldn’t stop projecting if your life depended on it. A typical neurotic personality, you didn’t make up the ranch and the investments out of whole cloth. There is a link to reality. Who is it that owns the ranch and makes the investments, a more successful older brother whom you envy? Does his success make you angry and jealous?
You’re such an obvious loser, Cynical. Give it up.
@73
1) If you live in a rural area and need to get anywhere you’ll run through that 100 gallons of gas pretty quick. I, on the other hand, could get by alright without a car.
2) The more miles you drive the more likely someone will plow into you and turn you into one of 40K or so people who die in car wrecks. High speed, undivided two lane roads are the most dangerous.
3) I’m not urban, I’m suburban. Even if I were urban I’d still be more likely to die or be injured in a car wreck than from crime/violence. Moving out to the sticks would increase my risk of getting hurt or killed, not decrease it.
4) Most break-ins occur through unlocked or poorly locked doors or windows. My house can be sealed up tight. Most break-ins occur when no one is home; with me working swing-shift and my sister working days there’s almost always someone home. The addition of a couple of Dobermans would really scare the bad folks off and it would be nice to have a dog or two around.
5) Thanks to “power walking” retirees and cell phones suspicious vehicles in my neighborhood get called in.
6) I doubt there will be a huge crime wave in Gig Harbor any time soon.
6) Boo! What are you so scared of?
78 – Right to work states? Right to trample on workers you mean. Right to hire and fire at will and overwork with no compensation or benefits.
Let greedheads go there. Wonderful places to live and raise a family I hear. Places that are safe for boards and executives to reap outrageous compensation and stock option packages that are how many times the compensation of the typical worker?
So funny you live in a State, Montana, with an income tax and no “right-to-fire” laws.
steve–
You are in my prayers friend.
michael–
Doesn’t Gig Harbor have some meth problems??
You missed my point.
I have gas stored…but I also have a sustainable living situation that doesn’t require me to go anywhere. I have over 1 years supply of food and generators for power. Wood stove with 9+ cords of wood. We have a little General/Grocery Store about 2 miles away. I can walk, ride my ATV or dirt bike…the back way is all Country Roads almost never used except by farm equipment.
I like Gig Harbor…but density can breed problems when the economy fails.
I’m just sayin’!
Amazing. Look at the map.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-to-work_law
Except for a handful of States whose people either came to their senses, have a stubborn streak or changing demographics, right-to-work States mirror exactly those who went to McSame.
Right-to-work=more of the same old right wing bullshit.
@89 “You are in my prayers friend.”
Please don’t bother yourself. Far better for you that you pray that your constantly lying your America-hating ass off, as well as your craven coveting of somebody else’s ranch and investments, doesn’t put you on the Lord’s shit list to hell. Stupid goatfucker.
@90
No, just lots of yuppies.
Rural areas seem to be rather hard hit by meth.
Actually, it is you that missed my point. The point being that there’s no reason to wall yourself off from the world. There’s nothing to be afraid of. No need to stockpile guns and ammo. Walling yourself off makes you less safe, not more.
I wouldn’t call what you described as sustainable. I’d call it hiding out.
michael–
What is wrong with having plenty of supplies, cash, gold/silver, guns & ammo??
Nothing.
I’m not walling myself off…just reasonable preparing for the worst…while praying for the best.
This recession was inevitiable. How could you not see it coming years ago.
Excessive Debt and pumped up assets are a recipe for disaster.
It was inevitable and unavoidable really.
Folks want to own their own home, work less and have lots of toys….that has been our recent recipe that has turned into ranscid stew.
Anyway, we have lots of friends, church activities, outdoor sports & living. Life is great!
I’m adequately prepared for the worst economy you can imagine. So are my neighbors. We don’t focus on this all day long. Far from it. Once you are prepared…you can live & not worry. That’s the point.
Michael–
Rural meth problems in all likelihood will turn into urban problems as the economy tanks. More drug & alcohol use in urban areas…and meth is cheap. Home invasions common with meth use. It’s ugly.
Why not be prepared?
If a meth head broke into your home and was reasonably likely to kill you or your family, would you kill the meth head??
Or would you try & reason with him?
@95
I live in a town where someone gets murdered every four or five years (at most) and those are always domestics. I can honestly say that I don’t worry, or even think about such things.
The big killers in America are car wrecks, diabetes and heart disease, not meth addicts. Let’s put the focus on the big problems.
@48
Roger, I usually agree with your opinions but you’re wrong on this one. $1.80 per $1000 isn’t worth complaining about, but what do I know? I’m just a small businessman who pays the B&O Tax.