Conventional wisdom says that nearly all initiatives dramatically lose support the more voters learn about them. For example, last year’s Initiative 912, which would have essentially repealed the state’s transportation improvement package, enjoyed a 15 point advantage in June, but lost by 10 points in November… a twenty-five point swing in only five months.
Most consultants will tell you that unless your issue polls upwards of 75 percent, you shouldn’t waste your money… thus one of the first things most prospective initiative sponsors do, is commission a favorably worded poll to prove to potential backers that they have overwhelming support.
And that’s exactly what the Washington State Farm Bureau did last fall in preparation for I-933, when it crafted the following loaded polling question:
“If there were an initiative on the ballot that would require state or local government to pay a property owner if a government action damaged the value or use of their property, would you vote yes to support the initiative or no to oppose the initiative.”
Well, gee… an initiative requiring compensation if government damages your property? Well that sounds good. (Actually, it’s already in our state Constitution.) No wonder the question reportedly polled at 79 percent.
But of course, you can’t expect such favorably loaded wording when the Attorney General’s office writes your ballot title. Or can you…?
Concise Description:
This measure would require compensation when any government regulation damages the use or value of private property, forbid regulations that prohibit existing legal uses of private property, and provide for exceptions and conditions.
Uh-huh.
Gee… when I filed my initiative, Deputy Solicitor General Jim Pharris wouldn’t even write me a ballot title that described what the initiative did… and then sought an injunction against me when I challenged the title in court.
But Pharris not only gave the WSFB a ballot title with the most favorable wording possible — using the loaded word “damage” — he apparently relied on their focus group and polling data to craft it. This is a ballot title the WSFB might have written itself. (Perhaps, it did.)
Not that any of this is a surprise. Pharris has long suffered from “Stockholm Syndrome,” identifying with the likes of Tim Eyman after being forced to defend so many of his unconstitutional initiatives. Intentional or not, he routinely gives anti-government initiatives favorable ballot titles.
Neither would it surprise me if Attorney General Rob McKenna — proudly in the pocket the Building Industry Association of Washington — took a personal interest in the Developer’s initiative. The BIAW, a strong backer of I-933, has played a crucial role in developing and supporting WA’s so-called “property rights” movement and its right-wing militia spin-offs. The BIAW also put $275,000 into independent expenditures on McKenna’s behalf in 2004, calling his election one of “the biggest political victories” it has ever had. For his part, McKenna reportedly phoned the BIAW on election night and told them “If it wasn’t for BIAW I wouldn’t have been elected.”
But regardless of the motives or behind-the-scenes wrangling, this is simply a bad ballot title, and I-933 opponents are rightly challenging it in court. Statute requires “a true and impartial description of the measure’s essential contents,” but a brief filed on behalf of the League of Women Voters and other petitioners correctly points out that Pharris’s the WSFB’s wording fails to describe any of I-933’s four main provisions.
Maybe our State’s voters would vote “yes” if the November ballot described this measure’s four basic changes to Washington law. Maybe they would vote “no”. But at the very least, the Concise Description of this measure printed on the november ballot should tell voters what those four changes are. Indeed, Washington’s ballot title statute demands it.
With that, attorney Thomas Ahearne goes on to propose a truly neutral alternative to Pharris’s leading description:
Concise Description:
This measure would require government studies before restricting property use, exempt or pay property owners who object to certain zoning, environmental, and other laws, and prevent development regulations that prohibit previously-existing uses.
Opponents have a single shot at a ballot title challenge; there is no provision for appeal beyond Thurston County Superior Court. If this is an unbiased judge interested in presenting the citizens of this state with an unbiased ballot title, he’ll approve a concise description closer to Ahearne’s than that drafted by the WSFB/AG.
I think the initiative process has grown out of frustration with government. More and more people see the Reps representing only the far right and Dems representing only the far left. This means the major players in the political process are nothing more than two competing special interest groups. Those in the middle of the road don’t feel represented by either party, so they turn to initiatives as a way of making their voices heard. That’s why guys like Tim Eyman have come to such notoriety. Eyman, howeer, seems to be using the initiave process as his personal weapon of choice against big government. It’s personal with him.
Eyeman is worse than any politician.
The whole initiative process was meant to be a way for the people to voice opinions, but now it is nothing more than a tool of well financed special interests.
When was the last time a true “citizens’ initiative” made it before the voters?
“I think the initiative process has grown out of frustration with government.”
Government?
Shit – it’s people who have no clue that frustrate the hell out of me.
Hey you BIAW suckups, if you want your initiative to PASS, write your ballot title like this:
“This initiative requires Mr. Cynical to suck Roger Rabbit’s dick.”
That’s not precisely true, but what the fuck, it’s close enough, and no more misleading than what BIAW-lackey Pharris wrote.
Goldy,
For example, last year’s Initiative 912, which would have essentially repealed the state’s transportation improvement package
You sure do have a way with words, Goldy. So, did a focus group come up with that phrase? Funny that political machination requires both a media group and an army of attorneys. Back in the day, common sense ruled the universe. Now, the sound byte does…
Oh, sorry, I’ve only groaned about that 3 times this week. My media advisor tells me it is wearing thin…(translation: my dog is bored)…
Gosh, marks. Sorry Gold offended your tender sensibilities. What do you call duly passed legislative appropriations? Stop groaning and take the dog for a walk.
I believe we need an initiative to the effect that if government makes a zoning choice that INCREASES the value of a property, said owner shall remit the full proceeds of that increase to the state.
Marks: I have a minute to comment on your comment. Goldy is a wordsmith. It takes intelligent individuals such as us to decipher his garbage. Too bad he has many middlemen who suck up his daily slime with glee! But I digress. For the toads who misspell Tim Eyman’s name, it demonstrates their own positional incompetence! Your arguments would make more sense if you didn’t personally atack the man, just his positions. But, I suppose being a lefty is never having to say you’re sorry on Animal Hind Parts!
What these toads forget is in WA state like California, the dominant party gets swayed by the special interests and forget the people elected them. So the initiative process is the only way to shake the shit out of lazy of beholden politicians. I like initiatives. It provides a fascinating way to view the special interests and who they have in the short hairs. We watched the I-695 frenzy from below and the commercials by the police and fire were so funny!
GBS, I will be back in town before Puddy. Let’s plan on the week he suggested! Keep up the good work eviscerating JCH. I told him before to lay off his racist diatribes. Not only are they over the top but some of them make no sense. I bet he and headless loocy are fraternal twins separated at birth!
Libertarian–get your facts straight. The far left is not “represented” by the Democratic Party. You wouldn’t know a far leftist if they sat on your lawn and sang the Internationale (all three choruses in the original French).
Proud He’s An ASS: So let me ask you this question? My taxes just went up and I’ve only been here a little while. Aren’t we already doing what you suggest in #7 when the city and county reappraise your home value every year through higher home and land taxes?
S’okay Proud to be an ASS,
I just fired my dog (she had a good walk and indicated her media responsibilities were too much), but my 19-month-old granddaughter indicated she will take up media operations. Good thing, she is much smarter than my dog.
Also,
No tender sensibilities here, but if you wish to discuss any, I’ll be happy to talk you through them…
Last one before I hibernate again due to work conditions. Puddy, is it near zero where you are this week? I hope your ass isn’t freezing.
And windie, full of hot toxic fumes, I’d invite you to GBS’ sushi party but GBS and I agreed assholes such as yourself aren’t allowed! He will provide a meeting synopsis for you.
Marks, you a grandpa? When did you get started? You can’t be over 45? Must be that marriage before entering the military?
@10: To answer your question, no. Welcome to the great Pacific Northwest. If you want to see your property taxes go down, lobby your legislator for a progressive state income tax.
PacMan!
Good to see you again. I hope all is going well with your move?
Yes, I did start early…some things you don’t regret…which reminds me that you need to meet the Mrs…
Puddybud mentioned the great Midwest…I’m sure the weather has been better, months ago..
marks @ 5. Thanks for the therapy offer, but no thanks, marks. However, do tell me about “when common sense ruled”. Must be a fascinating legend. You read it to your grandkid by the fire at night with the dog sleeping peacefully nearby?
Cordially,
Proud to be an Ass,
Actually, that “legend” was not too far back in history. Of course, my liberal democrat Grandma had a small bit of influence on my thinking. She was the one who renewed my “Mad Magazine” subscription every year, believing that was the only thing that kept me reading…
Marks: Mad Mag was a winner. I bet half the ASSes here look like Alfred E. Newman.
ProudToBeeASS: What did you write to PacMan? Lobby my legislator for what? What did you write? Can’t be. I moved here to get away from oppressive NY & NYC taxes. The last thing I want is another state income tax. Here’s a suggestion for ya. Call that legislator and tell him/her/it they can tax all donkocrats. We Republicans will sit back and watch the coffers fill up. Since this is a blue state, getting bluer, I am sure the few $$$ missing from us on the right will not be missed. Be sure to ask for that valuable booklet: “How to tax yourself into prosperity and out of a job!” by Marjorie Margolies-Mezvinsky.
BTW Proud To Be An Ass-
I can’t offer therapy. I am not licensed for such things.
(The preceeding was a necessary legal clarification. In the event that emergency therapy must be obtained, written approval from the recipient must occur.)
Wow, my granddaughter is pretty good…
Puddybud,
You must have talked to PacMan. Else, how’d you know I was an Alfred E. Newman look-alike?
BTW Marks it’s cold up here. Way below zero!!!! Even the rental cars have block heater plugs.
Marks, sorry to blow yer visual cover! PacMan said you were a handsome devil, witty, bright and funny. He mentioned you knew where headless looselips went to skool! Me, I’m just an semi-good looking black man, who married above his pay grade!
Puddybud @19,
“by Marjorie Margolies-Mezvinsky”
I remember the gyrations that Lynn Shenck (CA-49) went through regarding that vote (I was stationed in CA at the time)…somebody named Bilbray beat her in a big way in ’94…
Eyeman is worse than any politician.
The whole initiative process was meant to be a way for the people to voice opinions, but now it is nothing more than a tool of well financed special interests.
When was the last time a true “citizens’ initiative” made it before the voters?
Comment by LEFT is RIGHT— 2/28/06 @ 3:41 pm
Let me translate:
Whaaaaaa slobber sniff It is not fair that the right has ideas that people vote for and we lefties don’t. Whaaaahaaaaaa booooohoooo hooo.
Puddybud,
“PacMan said you were a handsome devil, witty, bright and funny.”
PacMan, I won’t call you a liar…but you is fibbing on a few things…
RUFUS –
Let me translate – WAAAAAAAAAAA snober sniff.
= republicans cannot get elected in this state so they have to do an end run aroung the legislative process to feel like they accomplished anything. AND they also need to mislead the public to be sucessful. Read the story this is linked to. The right is misleading the public to pass their “ideas” off as something other than what they really are. That is why people vote for them, not because they are good.
Please, they day ReThugians come up with a good idea and put it on the ballot they wont NEED to lie about it.
Marks, he also said you know good Chinese buffet locations in North East Dallas! You mean you are not handsome, witty, bright and funny?
Which one(s) are lies? If you have a great looking granddaughter, then he received her looks from the grandmother? Did you marry above your pay grade too?
Oops erratum …then she received…
26
Misleading? WTF are you talking about? The public has full knowledge of what they are voting for when they pass and Eyeman initiative. Lower Taxes!!!! The initiative are straigt forward and simple. As far as telling lies the left is great at it. Chrissy promised not to raise taxes in her 2004 campaign, not much truth there. If she would have told the truth she would have never been elected.
Speaking of the lying left did you hear how many conservatives were included in the CBS poll which puts Bush’s approval rating at 34%. Only 27% republicans!!! Then the media wonders what went wrong on election night when their polls didnt match election results. Lying is a natural reflex to you lefties. Of course why would you expect anything less from a news agency that diliberately forged documents to create a story.
@29 DUFUS –
Lower taxes? How is Eyman’s latest initiative to repeal the civil rights bill going to lower your taxes?
When given the choice MOST people will vote for lower taxes and increased services. The problem is that MOST people don’t understand that when you cut taxes you cannot also increase services. People should know what they are voting on when they cast their vote, if its for lower taxes then what services are they giving up? If its for increasing taxes then what services they will be getting?
Trying to MISLEAD the pulic into voting for something they don’t understand is standard operating procedure for the far right, and I think it is wrong. If your ideas are soooooo popular then let them stand with the public for what they are, not what your poll says gives you the best advantage.
Are you saying it is alright to lie? That the special interests who have hijacked our citizens’ right to initiative can mislead the public as long as it accomplished their goal? Fuck that.
DUFUS –
the 27% is probabally because the conservatives lied to people to get them to join. When they woke up to the “party” and saw what was happening, maybe they decided to no longer be a “conservative”
After all what is conservative about record deficits, increased spending, and the largest expansion in Medicare ever?
Election records show that one of Tulsa’s mayoral candidates voted twice in a presidential election. Democratic candidate Kathy Taylor denies the accusation – but state records in Florida and Oklahoma show the votes, one by absentee, the other in person, for the 2000 election.
Here is just another Democrat who took Michael Moore’s advice and voted twice in 2000.
Details, everyone knows she only voted once, in two different states. Sheesh, how can they get hung up on details, details are for the little people and republicans.
She’s in big trouble with her party because she only voted twice.
[A little more Democrat voter fraud????????? Why yes!!!!]
Lower taxes? How is Eyman’s latest initiative to repeal the civil rights bill going to lower your taxes?
This latest initiative is just an extention of I-200 which the voters of this state already passed. Your are right that the impact will be minimal on taxes. This is about fairness. Most of Eyemans initiatives are anti tax.
the 27% is probabally because the conservatives lied to people to get them to join. When they woke up to the “party” and saw what was happening, maybe they decided to no longer be a “conservative”
After all what is conservative about record deficits, increased spending, and the largest expansion in Medicare ever?
Comment by LEFT is RIGHT— 2/28/06 @ 9:03 pm
Don’t believe that for a second. Way more people describe themselves as conservative than Liberal. Democrats are many things, but conservative is not one of them. The CBS poll is just another example of liberal media bias. Nuff said.
E3 GBS, Were you asked to leave the service under dishonorable conditions?
E3 GBS, Were you asked to leave the service under dishonorable conditions?
RUFUS, are you really that blind? You can’t even believe that most Americans are tired of being lied to by the President? His numbers are in the toilet because people finally have woken up to the fact there are no WMDs, his “reforms” in Medicaid have hurt people, he is cutting taxes on dividen income while cutting VA services, fuck I really could go on but there really is too much to list.
His numbers are in the toilet because he lies, or “misleads”, this initative is another example of the standard operating procedure of the far right being forced to lie to sell their policy to the public.
Why would you think it is ok for someone to mislead the public just to accomplish a policy agenda? I am tired of it from the Federal Gov’t and from the right wing crazies in this state as well.
Why are you against having an accurate ballot title so people can actually know what they are voting on? Oh yeah, the idea came from the right wing extremists so if you let people know what it actually is about you’ll lose.
E3 GBS, Were you asked to leave the service under dishonorable conditions?
Anyone hungry? Let’s see what on duty messcook E3 GBS can make?
Spit shine my shoes, E3 GBS!!!!
38
Does Bush have low approval rating, yes. But not fucking 34%. More than 34% distrust the MSM and knows that most of the accusations against Bush are lies. His real approval rating is probably somewhere in the low to mid 40s. The left has got to understand that they can not manipulate public opinion like they did 20 years ago. There are too many watch dog media organizations out there and the truth will get out now. The MSM monopoly is over.
Why are you against having an accurate ballot title so people can actually know what they are voting on? Oh yeah, the idea came from the right wing extremists so if you let people know what it actually is about you’ll lose.
Comment by LEFT is RIGHT— 2/28/06 @ 9:32 pm
I am not against it as long as lefties are not the ones making the decision on what to title it.
SUPPORTING THE TROOPS: BUSH BUDGET HIDES CUTS IN VETERANS’ MEDICAL CARE
“WASHINGTON — While veterans are worried about proposed cuts to their health care, Vice President Dick Cheney tried to reassure the American Legion on Tuesday that the Bush administration is committed to improving the system. …
“The Associated Press reported Monday that under a White House budget proposal, tens of thousands of veterans with non-critical medical issues could see delays or even denial of care. …
“The AP reported that even though the cost of providing medical care to veterans has been growing by leaps and bounds, White House budget documents assume a cutback in 2008 and further cuts thereafter.
“The White House’s VA budget request for 2007 adds nearly $3 billion for veterans’ health care, compared with 2006. But American Legion National Commander Thomas L. Bock said the request is built on charging new annual enrollment fees for VA care, nearly doubling drug copayments and driving 1.2 million veterans out of the system. …
“The White House says the long-term budget numbers don’t represent actual administration policies. Similar cuts assumed in earlier budgets have been reversed.
“;nstead, the president’s subsequent budgets have increased funding for all of these programs,’said White House budget office spokesman Scott Milburn.”
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/.....erans.html
So which is it? Cuts or increases? Depends on who they talk to. For voters’ consumption, their budget reduces deficits. But that budget terminates VA medical care for 1.2 million veterans, and imposes higher charges and copays on the rest. When they talk to veterans — they say they don’t mean it. They’re lying to somebody. The question is — who?
Oh yeah, let’s not forget, Bush wants another $70 billion of tax cuts for the rich. It appears they plan to get it on veterans’ backs. Hey you guys fighting in Iraq, try to come home in one piece, because if you get hurt they ain’t gonna take care of you.
The right loves Freedom of speech and the freedom of the press. That is why you never hear righties demanding political correctness in the public square or demanding that news organiztions be shut down.
Why does the left have to have front groups like “Media Matters” to lie about the MSM? The lies from the left MSM have been “donkumented”
The right and the left of the citizenry squabble while Delaware Corporations that are registered in this land rape the citizenry.
They are robbing us all blind just as surely as the Southern elite robbed both the poor white an dthe poor black by setting them against one another. Both parties are complicit in this thing. The system is so broken that they are carefully choosing what to impeach Bush on so as not to expose the entire government as the illegitimate sham that it is. All of our grandchildren will be as poor as Rio de Janeiro slum dwellers and we will have lost our chance to reverse the process.
HEADLICE YOUR NUTS NO ONE IS GOING TO IMPEACH BUSH LOK WHO CONTROLS THE SENATE AND CONGRESS.GO OUT AND TAKE A HIT ON YOUR BONG
NOT ONLY IS GBS A MESS CRANK SEAL I HEARD HE IS STILL A WOG.HE WANTS TO BECOME THE MESS DECK MAA. HIS GOAL IN LIFE.
It is hard to imagine a more “boken” man than MTR.
He is just a pathetic shell of a human… 34% will do that to a true believer.
Rufus, MTR, Yo, JCH, PuddyBud, Cynical… I feel sorry for them.
HA HA!!!
Hell no! I want to put salt on their wounded NeoCon wounded souls!
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha
You fucking fools deserve the shit that is coming down on you!
PuddyBud.. how is that “Wonderful Bush Economy” working for you!
HA HA HA HA
http://www.creators.com/opinio.....nsName=pcr
It is so sad that BushCo had to destroy America, for America to realise who it’s real enemy is.
NeoCons.
NeoCons = Fascists = Downfall of any country that lets them gain power
PuddyBud… you gonna join the army to fight the Iraq Civil War?
I am sure they will give you flowers and candy if you just “believe” the NeoCon lies!
JUst imagine PuddyBud’s wide pink ass trotting out in a street in Baghdad… “I am an American.. I am here under the authority of George W. Bush to save you from yourself! Please put the WMD we sold you to fight Iraq on the ground and embrace the democracy we are going to give you.”
Boom!
Donnageddon WHY DONT YOU GO OUT AND GET A BLOW JOB AND BRING US ALL BACK ONE.EAT SHIT AND BARK AT THE MOON LOOOOOOOOOOOOSER,JUST THINK 3.5 MORE YEARS OF BUSH.GOD THAT MUST EAT THE LIVING SHIT OUT OF YOU.
“As long as you give us your oil, and do not mind our permanent bases, we will let you live”.
BOOM!
DA WO, you need to try to attempt to not be obvious.
YO.
YO, Bush will be lucky to survive impeachment before the end of 2006.
You fucking Looooooser!
What is the difference between a free range duck and G W Bush?
The free range duck is not lame, and will not be impeached!
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha
“steady with those gallows, we have a lot of NeoCons to hang before the sun sets”
Said The Hague hangman.
Hey Troll fucks! Now you can answer this question:
What did it feel like to be a conspirator in 1930’s Germany?
It is going to be rough sailing, as the NeoCon co-conspirators get more desperate.
Expect the terror level to rise any minute now!
Puddwhack revived PacMan. PacMan claims to be black and so does Puddwhack. Sometimes Puddwhack talks like some depression era Mississippi field hand and thinks he sounds like some 21st century urban black man. It’s hilarious, embarrassing and slightly sad all at the same time.
Why do you want to do that, Puddwhack?
Donnageddon you are a burnt out light bulb in a sea of light.Tell me who controls congress who controls the senate and as soon as one more judge goes who da ya think will control the court.your the party of looooooooooooooosers.get use to it.now go play in the traffic.i see you like the word fucking something your mom taught you.do you use it at family get togethers.im sure your the talk of the family.loooooooooooooser.
Da Wa (YO) tell me who is more unpopular than Bush, Cheney, or the Republican Congress without resorting to serial killers?
Times Up!
You LOSE!
What’s the differrence between PuddyBud and PacMan?
PuddyBud’s pink ass needs SPF 210, and PacMan needs an umbrella to keep his freckles from exploding!
Donnageddon one more time who is the president.thanks for playing loooooooooooooooser.you have 3 years to hate Bush.i love it.
POLL
If all the following where on fire, who would you spray lighter fluid on first?
[_]Bush
[_]Cheney
[_]Frist
[_]DeLay
[_]All Of The Above
Da Wo, you are funny!
Bonus question!
When Randy “Duke” Cunningham goes to prison and learns the “laws” of prison showers; who will he “rat out on” first:
[_]Bush
[_]Cheney
[_]Frist
[_]DeLay
[_]All Of The Above
Will “KennyBoy” Lay, be the “prison bitch”, or will he share a cell with Cheney?
Who would you rather run US Port Operations:
[_]OBL
[_]Britian
[_]Germany
[_]U.A.E
[_]An American Company
Q: How many “Patriotic” NeoCons believe that an American company is unable to run US ports?
A: All of them!
Q: Does this make NeoCon’s and their unAmerican zombies asshole?
A: Yes!
XXX 76 was a trick question…
There are no “Patriotic” NeoCons.
DonnaStuckonStupiddon: I have never been so busy making $$$ in my life. The economy is very very good to me.
How life as an environmental chemist. If you donks clean up the environment, you’ll be unemployed!
PuddyBud… you idiot.
http://www.creators.com/opinio.....nsName=pcr
read and get real.
Unemployed? How about hunted down and skinned?
Keep trolling the NeoCon line.
Pink skin is gonna be valuable, whitey!
PuddyBud “How life as an environmental chemist.”
Uh.. try to keep score. I work for the “Industrial Defence Complex”
PuddyBud, my friend, How does it feel to be so completely stupid and evil?
I mean… you are reeeaaaly pink…. stuuuupid… sunburned and… clueless.
I have just skinned the species called “Puddybudious Pink and flabious”
Can I sell that on eBay?
Hey I saw on Jay Leno the buckshot Cheney shot that lawyer with sold on eBay for $5,000.
If Stefan hit me, I wonder how much that buckshot would sell for? Never happen …
17, 18
OK, we’ve established that Puttybrain and Marks were both avidly reading Mad Magazine while the rest of us were studying history, economics, government, literature …
… that explains a lot, doesn’t it?
24
” … the right has ideas that people vote for … Comment by RUFUS— 2/28/06 @ 7:16 pm”
Yeah, but not enough people, which is why your initiatives lose.
Just a little historical reminder here … Tim Eyman did NOT repeal the car tab tax. Although his $30 tab initiative passed, the courts invalidated it because Timmy doesn’t know how to write a legal initiative. The $30 tab law actually on the books was enacted by the legislature and signed by Gov. Locke.
29
“Misleading? WTF are you talking about? The public has full knowledge of what they are voting for when they pass and Eyeman initiative. Lower Taxes!!!!”
Want an example of Eyman’s lying? Okay, here’s one. Eyman promoted his slot machine initiative by promising voters it would cut property taxes by $400 million a year. That’s horseshit.
Eyman based this claim on estimated profits of $1.1 billion a year, of which 35% would go to the state.
Now let’s ask, 35% of what? The minimum payout ratio is set by law, and according to Wikipedia, ranges from 82% to 98% in U.S. jurisdictions. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slot_machine#Myths In Las Vegas, 97% to 98% is typical. If the payout ratio is too low, players will wise up, and stop patronizing the machines. And, of course, Timmy’s slot machines would have been competing with tribal slot machines, which typically have a payout ratio of 90% to 93%. http://www25.brinkster.com/ran.....lotstr.htm.
So, let’s assume a 90% payout ratio. That means to realize $1.1 billion in profits with $385 million ($1.1 billion x 35%, which is NOT Eyman’s advertised $400 million), gamblers would have to feed $11 billion a year into non-tribal slot machines.
At the time, Washington had 6.1 million residents, counting those nursing on bottles or confined to nursing homes. Eyman’s numbers work only if EVERY resident of the state, regardless of age, spends an average of $1,800 a year on slot machine gambling! When you eliminate those too young or too infirm to enter a gambling parlor, that number rises to over $3,000 per person a year on slot gambling. AAs you can plainly see, Eyman’s revenue estimates were patently absurd.
Even if the state realized $400 million a year, that would amount to an average of only $160 a year of property tax relief for each of the state’s 2.5 million households, disregarding the loss of state revenue that would result from slot machines cannibalizing state lottery sales, which would have to be made up somewhere else.
A more reasonable, optimistic, estimate is 10% of that, or a $40 million annual property tax cut, which would only amount to an average of $16 a year in property tax relief for the state’s 2.5 million households. People living in million-dollar homes would get more; people living in modest homes would get considerably less, like maybe $5 or $6 a year.
The voters had enough sense to see through Eyman’s bullshit. Here’s an inflated number for you: Voters rejected this turkey by 61.5% to 38.5%!!!
Here’s another inflated number for you: Many of Eyman’s initiatives do not make it onto the ballot, of those that do many do not pass, and of those that do most are invalidated by the courts. Someday Timmy’s sponsors will figure out they’re paying him big bucks for enacting next to nothing, and he’ll be out of business.
erratum
5th paragraph should read “with $385 million ($1.1 billion x 35%, which is NOT Eyman’s advertised $400 million) going to the state, …”
30
No need to speculate, Doofus. We’re gonna have a referendum on Bush’s popularity in about 8 months.
19
“Call that legislator and tell him/her/it they can tax all donkocrats.”
We already know that’s the GOP plan, Puttybutt. Bush wants to eliminate all taxes on corporations, investment income, and inheritances — only wages would be taxed.
34
I’m glad Eyman is targeting the gay rights law, and I hope his initiative gets on the ballot. Why? Because his efforts will assure a high Democratic turnout.
45
“The right loves Freedom of speech and the freedom of the press. That is why you never hear righties demanding political correctness in the public square or demanding that news organiztions be shut down. Comment by RUFUS— 2/28/06 @ 9:55 pm”
If this is true, why do GOP thugs eject anyone who doesn’t agree with Bush’s positions from his “town halls?” and why do Republicans support things like the flag burning amendment and sedition laws? Why do Republicans question the patriotism of anyone who criticizes Bush’s policies? You guys believe in free speech and freedom of the press about as much as Goebbels.
Hey Doofus, want to know how much free speech you have in a fascist country? Google “White Rose Society.”
46
Hey Doofus why don’t you tell me the right doesn’t have front groups like Swift Boat Liars and propaganda media like Free Republic, Snarky Politics, Washington Times, etc.?
51
“It is hard to imagine a more “boken” man than MTR. He is just a pathetic shell of a human… 34% will do that to a true believer. Comment by Donnageddon— 2/28/06 @ 10:49 pm”
And $500,000 poorer, too!!! (snicker) (snark) (snort) heee hee …
HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR
(bunny farting noises)
52
“Rufus, MTR, Yo, JCH, PuddyBud, Cynical… I feel sorry for them.”
Correction: Should read “Rufus, MTR, Yo, JCH, PuddyBud, Cynical… I feel sorry for him.”*
* “Him” = Kevin Carnes
53
“Job growth over the last five years is the weakest on record. The U.S. economy was more than 7 million jobs short of keeping up with population growth. …
“Over the past five years, the U.S. economy experienced a net job loss in goods-producing activities. The entire job growth was in service-providing activities — primarily credit intermediation, health care and social assistance, waiters, waitresses and bartenders, and state and local government.
“U.S. manufacturing lost 2.9 million jobs, almost 17 percent of the manufacturing workforce. The wipeout is across the board. Not a single manufacturing payroll classification created a single new job.
“The declines in some manufacturing sectors have more in common with a country undergoing saturation bombing during war than with a super-economy that is ‘the envy of the world.’ Communications equipment lost 43 percent of its workforce. Semiconductors and electronic components lost 37 percent of its workforce. The workforce in computers and electronic products declined 30 percent. Electrical equipment and appliances lost 25 percent of its employees. The workforce in motor vehicles and parts declined 12 percent. Furniture and related products lost 17 percent of its jobs. Apparel manufacturers lost almost half of the workforce. Employment in textile mills declined 43 percent. Paper and paper products lost one-fifth of its jobs. The workforce in plastics and rubber products declined by 15 percent. Even manufacturers of beverages and tobacco products experienced a 7 percent shrinkage in jobs.
“The knowledge jobs that were supposed to take the place of lost manufacturing jobs in the globalized ‘new economy’ never appeared. The information sector lost 17 percent of its jobs, with the telecommunications workforce declining by 25 percent. Even wholesale and retail trade lost jobs. … Today, there are 209,000 fewer managerial and supervisory jobs than 5 years ago.
” … There are no jobs for [engineering] graduates. The talk about engineering shortages is absolute ignorance. There are several hundred thousand American engineers who are unemployed and have been for years. …
“Offshore outsourcing and offshore production have left the United States awash with unemployment among the highly educated. The low measured rate of unemployment does not include discouraged workers. … In the past, unemployment resulted mainly from turnover in the labor force and recession. Recoveries pulled people back into jobs. … Today, the unemployment is permanent, as entire occupations and industries are wiped out … as corporations replace their American employees with foreign ones. Economists … estimate the U.S. unemployment rate to be between 7 percent and 8.5 percent. There are now hundreds of thousands of Americans who will never recover their investment in their university education.
” … the United States is experiencing a job depression. Most economists refuse to acknowledge the facts, because they endorsed globalization. It was a win-win situation, they said. They were wrong.
” … Where is the benefit when employment in U.S. export industries and import-competitive industries is shrinking? After decades of struggle to regain credibility, free-market economics is on the verge of another wipeout.
“No sane economist can possibly maintain that a deplorable record of merely 1,054,000 net new private-sector jobs over five years is an indication of a healthy economy. The total number of private-sector jobs created over the five-year period is 500,000 jobs less than one year’s legal and illegal immigration! (In a December 2005 Center for Immigration Studies report based on the Census Bureau’s March 2005 Current Population Survey, Steven Camarota writes that there were 7.9 million new immigrants between January 2000 and March 2005.)
“The economics profession has failed America. It touts a meaningless number, while joblessness soars. … On Feb. 10, the Commerce Department released a record U.S. trade deficit in goods and services for 2005 — $726 billion. The U.S. deficit in advanced technology products reached a new high. Offshore production for home markets and jobs outsourcing has made the United States highly dependent on foreign-provided goods and services, while simultaneously reducing the export capability of the U.S. economy. It is possible that there might be no exchange rate at which the United States can balance its trade.
“Polls indicate that the Bush administration is succeeding in whipping up fear and hysteria about Iran. The secretary of defense is promising Americans decades-long war. Is death in battle Bush’s solution to the job depression? Will Asians finance a decades-long war for a bankrupt country?”
http://www.creators.com/opinio.....nsName=pcr
Of course, we know from historical experience what happens in bankrupt countries gripped by permanent high unemployment — they experience social and political unrest, revolution, and civil war — usually followed by the rise of a dictator who kills tens of millions.
68
“Da Wa (YO) tell me who is more unpopular than Bush, Cheney, or the Republican Congress without resorting to serial killers?”
Child molesters?
68 (continued)
The good thing to come out of all this is that the neocons probably will succeed in destroying the Republican Party.
78
“I have never been so busy making $$$ in my life.”
So you’re working 10 hours a week now? I notice you have plenty of time to post on HA. I’m retired, and you’re here as much as I am … oh wait, I get it, you’re “working” by getting paid by the BIAW to post horseshit.
Yeah, it’s great work for a 23-year-old College Republican — while it lasts.
Roger Rabbit has posted 100% of the last 21 comments. If you don’t like it, fuck your, and fuck the http://www.msu.edu/~nixonjos/a.....-unger.jpg you rode in on!
DA WO = DUMB ASS WASH OUT
D u m b
A s s
W a s h o u t
O u t
D u m b
A s s
W a s h
O u t
D A W O
u s a u
m s s t
b h
LEFT is RIGHT@2
Try I-695 for one, We also had an anti gas tax measure that recently failed DUE TO big buisiness as well as special inerest financing the campaign against it…but it was a grassroots initiative.
It’s really hard to think of a good first line for my new novel> I thought this one might set the tone:
“It was the November that George W. Bush honestly won the presidency.”
But then I thought ,”Nah! It has to be reasonably plausible.”
“The far left is not “represented” by the Democratic Party.”
Comment by Proud To Be An Ass— 2/28/06 @ 6:20 pm
Well, Proud, the far left sure as heck isn’t represented by the Republicans or the Libertarians. Who else represents the far left in this country? The comunists? The Socialists? Nah, they gave up tryin’ to be a real party decades ago.
So, I think the only main stream political party that represents the far left is the Democratic Party. That’s my opinion, and you’re entitled to your opinion.
111. Just what, in your opinion constitutes a member of the “far left”? I’ve heard this term used, yet I don’t know where the demarcation is drawn.
special notice to puddy-pac: Nope, sorry. Not fooling anyone. You’ve failed to show any ability to back up anything you say… I’m sure your next meeting will ‘fall through’ due to ‘unforseen circumstances’ again… And which of your identities is black now? It was pacman, but then it was puddy…
Either way, put up or shut up. Once I hear from an honest source that you’re different people, I’ll believe it. Until then its more rightwing crypto-racist garbage.
Chuck,
The gas tax repeal was spearheaded as a way to “get back” at Governor Gregoire and try to keep the negative ball rollingover her by the right. Too bad that their usual ally (BIG BUSINESS) realizes the need to get their products to market, workers to jobs, and supplies to factories. So they broke with their usual allies and went with their interest. I wouldn’t stretch it to say the anti-gas tax intiative was “grass roots” because it was in fact rolled into the Republican machine. It just lacked money because anyone WITH money knew it was a god idea to keep it in place. Shit even Joe (I stole unemployment from the State) Zarelli voted for it, so did Joyce (Proud to be a part of the FAR Right) Mulliken, and countless others…
Our INitiative system is broken just like our elections. There is too much money in it for average people to compete. The day a dollar was declared “free speech” was the day that Bill Gates got about 480,000,000,000,000 more free speeches than me. The WalMARTons now have about 230,000,000,000,000 more free speeches than I do.
You see the BIAW, WSFB, and Timmy! backed the wrong horses in the 2004 election, see their prospects as ZERO for the 2006 election, and are now using their money to accomplish a policy agenda that is doomed if they even tried to find a comprimise in the legislature.
If they are allowed to have a MISLEADING ballot title, then I guess the BIAW made a wise investment in electing Rob McKenna. Its the public that is going to lose. That would include you CHUCK, DUFUS, MTR, Kevin Carnes, etc… Because I will buy the property around your house and exercise my “property rights” to
A – [] build really tall apartment buildings blocking all sunlight
B – [] file a claim for damages unless I use my property for a landfill
C – [] Begin a hog farming empire
D – [] pave over everything and create parking lots that funnel rain water onto YOUR land
E – [] Build a concert venue that only shows hard core punk music, hippie jam bands, or the most extreme gangsta rap.
After all if I can’t do one or all of the above the Gov’t is “damaging” MY property values right? Who gives a shit about yours?
Just what, in your opinion constitutes a member of the “far left”?
Comment by vancouversucks— 3/1/06 @ 8:21 am
It’s difficult to say. Joe Lieberman is not far left, but he’s a Democrat. Olympia Snow is not far right, yet she’s a Republican. Perhaps some folks would consider Ward Churchill or George Soros far left. Many in the Hollywood crowd, according to Mr. O’Reilly, are far left. My opinion is that those espousing government control (not just government regulation) over the economy, culture, society, and our private lives would be considered far left. Anyone who held this view would not be a Libertarian or Republican, for sure. Do you think that person would be more “friendly” to the Democratic Party versus any other political party in the US?
The only people I see advocating government control of people’s lives are fundamentalist Republican far right faux-Christians and Republican neo-cons. Free market capitalism in a corporately dominated world is also a phantasy — especially when the only thing allowed to be free are the non-living holding companies of the well-off: multi national corporations with no allegiance to any country. Corporations are the power that has driven us into this new feudal age. If empty libertarian chatter about the supposed “right” of huge aggregations of capital to freely rule the roost is your thing, fine. Don’t bother me with having to take the time to pull Ayn Rand’s head out of your rectum.
Don’t candy-coat it, lucy: tell us how you really feel!
115. I’m thinking that term, “far left” is a nebulous boogey man, that it really does not exist. Many Americans may harbor one or two ideas that could be “far” but for the most part a solid far left individual is quite rare.
Maybe it’s in the mind of the thinker what “far left” and “far right” are.
Donnegeddon&Windie@various It seems we have several “troll-brothers” with serious cases of transient vitiligo or even out and out albinism. . . .
Libertarian: And you should do the same. You’ve got this elitist fascistic illegally spying making money off bogus wars accusing peole who criticise them of being agents of sedition. Then there is a clown like you saying they are not trying to run other peoples’lives. You have a hell of a nerve even suggesting such a falsehood!!
Fellow Republicans: Why not register and vote Republican a dozen times in different WASH counties using the name “Leroy LaDamion Jackson”. Vote by mail a dozen times using a King County Government Bluilding as the address. NO ONE will question anything, as the Dems will defend multiple voting by minorities as “Any questions are RACIST!!!” Beat the libs at their own game!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WindieASS: GBS will be the neutral party. For you info, PacMan will appear from one direction and the Pudster will appear from another. Even I can’t be in two places at once. Also, there will be a meeting of the minds over sushi. Don’t worry we won’t miss you. You don’t have what it takes for the meeting!
Horseless Looselips: Another dull knife ASSHead on ASSes! Don’t worry no one pays any attention to your DRIVEL. You too are aptly named. And yes you are a sedition agent. You proved that many months ago. Remember looselips, neo-cons want the state of Israel to exist. So what does that make you? A Jew hater! A Hamas lover! Come on and admit it; you were rave dancing when Hamas won the Palestinian elections! In fact, anyone who calls us neo-cons is admitting they hate Israel!
Loving Israel is the number one tenet of neo-conism. The second tenet is our love of Halliburton, because the moonbats forget it was the #1 choice for military contracts of the Cigar Administration. The third tenet is our dislike for Ted Chappaquiddick Kennedy.
One more thing windieASS: When GBS touches my kinky hair, my brown skin and views my pearly white teeth, he will naturally acknowledge my blackness. Then he can rub the pate of PacMan who keeps his hair shorter. Why not post your cell phone number to GBS so he can be the first to identify PacMan and Puddy as two distinct and different individuals? Then you can publically apologize for being an ASS! No, like a leopard you can’t change your spots, you’ll always be a mindless ASS! But then again as many of us who think right continually state on ASSes, being a lefty means you never have to say you’re sorry for wrongly accusing, smearing, or killing someone!
Great snowstorm here this afternoon, but a little too cold for packing.
Wow RR: That Veterans story you posted really fits in with I-933! Keep up the worthless work. You dullness is improving!
Notice stuckonstupiddon, I ignore you? Why? Because you say nothing worthwhile. Maybe you, horseless looselips and JCH were triplets. You were farmed out to the moonbat donkocratic core, looselips to the femminazis and JCH to some poor peeps in Pennsylvania!
Halliburton, the choice of the Cigar Defense Department:
http://moorewatch.com/index.ph.....lliburton/
In 1997, when LOGCAP was again put up for bid, Halliburton/Brown & Root lost the competition to another contractor, Dyncorp. But the Clinton Defense Department, rather than switch from Halliburton to Dyncorp, elected to award a separate, sole-source contract to Halliburton/Brown & Root to continue its work in the Balkans. According to a later GAO study, the Army made the choice because 1) Brown & Root had already acquired extensive knowledge of how to work in the area; 2) the company “had demonstrated the ability to support the operation”; and 3) changing contractors would have been costly. The Army’s sole-source Bosnia contract with Brown & Root lasted until 1999. At that time, the Clinton Defense Department conducted full-scale competitive bidding for a new contract. The winner was . . . Halliburton/Brown & Root. The company continued its work in Bosnia uninterrupted.
That work received favorable notices throughout the Clinton administration. For example, Vice President Al Gore’s National Performance Review mentioned Halliburton’s performance in its Report on Reinventing the Department of Defense, issued in September 1996. In a section titled “Outsourcing of Logistics Allows Combat Troops to Stick to Basics,” Gore’s reinventing-government team favorably mentioned LOGCAP, the cost-plus-award system, and Brown & Root, which the report said provided “basic life support services � food, water, sanitation, shelter, and laundry; and the full realm of logistics services � transportation, electrical, hazardous materials collection and disposal, fuel delivery, airfield and seaport operations, and road maintenance.”
Actually, lucy, there are people from both ends of the political spectrum trying to run our lives. Republicans want to monitor your bedroom and personal life. Democrats want to know about your wealth and where it is. Both groups seek to promote their agendas of dominance over all, reward their friends and punish their enemies.
Are the Republicans trying to run our lives? Yes, they are. Are the Democrats trying to run our lives? Yes, they are.
Can we escape the tyranny these parties want to inflict upon us? I don’t know, but I try to call it to everyone’s attention.
I love Israel, so I guess I’m a neo-con. Yeeeeessssss!
ASSHeads hate neo-cons so they hate Israel.
So ASSHeads, why do you all hate Israel. To love Israel you have to be a Neo-con. David, are you a neo-con?
Headless Lucy: I think it’s time for a little “Tookie Williams” love for you. You seem very tense. 9 inches of “Tookie” will give you what you need!!!
Now libertarians, we are not Republicans, we are neo-cons. We love Israel. So if we peak in your bedroom, we want to make sure you love Israel too! Donkocrats want to make sure you don’t like Israel so they take your money so you can’t send it to help Israel. Plain and simple.
So ASSHeads, why do you hate Israel by taking the people’s money?
erratum peek not peak, but it would kind of work! Remember we neo-cons peak when it comes to Isreal!
I don’t know about your comments, Puddybuddy, but I think the Democrats as a whole are pro-Israel, just as many Republicans are. But there is a fringe element out there, mostly associated with the far right, that goes to some whacky estremes like denying the Holocaust (SP?). It’s funny to listen to these folks because they’ll deny the Holocaust and slam Jews in one sentence then talk about how important it is for the US to support Israel. These far right folks don’t tend to vote for the Democrats. They are more inclined, in my un-scientific opinion, to vote for the Republicans.
Libertarian: I think you are confusing the resentment of American Jews by some Republicans for their support for Democrats vs. the outright support of Israel by the same people. They separate the American Jew from Israel! We get accused for being neo-cons. So Liberatrian, look up the definition of neo-con. Neo-cons love Israel, plain and simple.
From stuckonstupiddon’s favorite Web dictionary: “According to Irving Kristol, former managing editor of Commentary and now a Senior Fellow at the conservative American Enterprise Institute in Washington and the Publisher of the hawkish magazine The National Interest, a neoconservative is a “liberal mugged by reality,” meaning someone who has become more conservative after seeing the practical impact of liberal foreign and domestic policies.” Yeah baby!
“It is a movement founded on, and perpetuated by an aggressive approach to foreign policy, free trade, opposition to communism during the Cold War, support for Israel and Taiwan and opposition to Middle Eastern and other states that are perceived to support terrorism” Horseless Looselips likes Hamas!
Libertarian: More for ya: “Neo-conservatism is a term almost exclusively used by the enemies of America’s liberation of Iraq. There is no “neo-conservative” movement in the United States. When there was one, it was made up of former Democrats who embraced the welfare state but supported Ronald Reagan’s Cold War policies against the Soviet bloc. Today neo-conservatism identifies those who believe in an aggressive policy against radical Islam and the global terrorists.” Horseless Looselips and his ASSHead friends support people who blow up Jewish women and children on Israeli buses!
Libertarian: I think the real reason is given here by Max Boot: “The original neocons were a band of liberal intellectuals who rebelled against the Democratic Party’s leftward drift on defense issues in the 1970s. At first the neocons clustered around Sen. Henry “Scoop” Jackson, a Democrat, but then they aligned themselves with Ronald Reagan and the Republicans, who promised to confront Soviet expansionism.” The donkocrats started losing their best minds to the other side only to be replaced by low life has beens such as are here on ASSes: donstuckonstupiddon, he’s still clueless, windie but no breeze, horseless looselips, tree frog farmed out, roger dumb bunny, proud it’s in his ass, rev is it anabaptist or anababtist tappman, etc.
But Libertarian, if you use the New York Times definition, apply it to the donstuckonstupiddon, rujax, Dr E. dj, horseless looselips definition of Geroge Walker Bush:” A neoconservative: “The neocons and hard-liners have long felt that no Soviet leader could be trusted” (New York Times).”
Well George Bush said he looked in the eyes and Vlad Putin and said he saw his soul. So if GWB trusts Vlad Putin, a Soviet leader, this definition blows smoke up these ASSes asses who call GWB a neo-con! Ya just can’t have it both ways!
Regardless of Butt-Putty’s bluster and BS, the hallmark of a NeoCon is a adherence to rhetoric against overwhelming factual refutation. . .’they’ll greet us with Roses”. . .’the conflict certainly won’t last six months’. . .'”Mission Accomplished”.
There are few facts the NeoCons won’t try to lie around, or shout down.
Butt-Putty. . .black, white. . .yer turning purple tyring to blot out the truth. . .that’s it, yer purple!
Oh no the Neo-con channel is winning the cable battle:
FNC O’REILLY 1,636,000
FNC HANNITY/COLMES 1,351,000
FNC GRETA 1,255,000
FNC SHEP SMITH 1,037,000
FNC HUME 1,027,000
CNN LARRY KING 708,000
CNN DOBBS 631,000
CNN COOPER 481,000
CNN ZAHN 457,000
MSNBC HARDBALL 413,000
MSNBC OLBERMANN 333,000
MSNBC COSBY 293,000
CNNHN GRACE 259,000
MSNBC CARLSON 146,000
Tree Froggy: The definition is neo-con, not what you want it to be. So who’s blotting out what truth? The Color Purple, yes, good movie by Oprah! I provide definitions of what a neo-con is and your simple little quarter micron sized brain has issues with the web definition because it differs with yours? Au contraire, maerde de taureau breath! It’s your side that bastardized the definition. Now that it’s clear certain mentally handicapped zoo residents such as yourself can’t deal with truths, you change the reference point!
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