HorsesAss.Org

Open thread 8-26-05

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Okay… I know… I didn’t get the open thread posted Friday night like I usually do, so technically this was posted on the 27th… but what the fuck.

Comments

  4. 4

    Speaking of bullshit, it’s time once again to check on (un)Sound Politics, because now that I’m Dean Logan and Stefan is an election worker, it’s my job to supervise Stefan.

    Let’s see.

    Item No. 1 — A piece by Timothy Goddard argues that 2nd District voters should replace Rep. Rick Larson (D) with Doug Roulstone (R) (who the hell is he?) because military bases (e.g., Everett naval base and Whidbey Island Air Station) are more likely to get whacked in districts that elect Democrats. Nice commentary on Bush administration military policy, Timothy — thanks.

    Item No. 2 — Stefan’s panties are in a bunch over objections by the ACLU and State Labor Council to a misleading TV ad being aired (at taxpayer expense) by the Secretary of State’s office. Stefan’s complaint is: “In fact, the new law regarding ID at the polls is almost completely worthless, but naturally, the Democrats are up in arms at any attempt to introduce integrity to the voting process.” Whatever, Stefan.

    Here’s what the law says:

    “Any person desiring to vote at any primary or election is required to provide identification to the election officer before signing the poll book. The identification required in this section can be satisfied by providing a valid photo identification, such as a driver’s license or state identification card, student identification card, or tribal identification card, a voter’s voter identification issued by a county elections officer, or a copy of a current utility bill, bank statement, paycheck, or government check or other government document. Any individual who desires to vote in person but cannot provide identification as required by this section shall be issued a provisional ballot. The secretary of state may adopt rules to carry out this section.” (Chapter 243, Laws of 2005, Section 7)

    Here’s what the ad says:

    “Bring photo ID to the polls, because voter ID is now required to protect legitimate votes and prevent duplicate votes and errors.”

    Guess what, the ad is lying! So is Stefan, because ID fraud IS NOT A PROBLEM — I’ll bet you can’t cough up one single instance of an illegal vote being cast in this state that would have been prevented by a photo ID, you lying sack of shit!

    Sam Reed’s shenanigans are more serious than just the ad, though. In the guise of implementing the law passed by the Legislature, Sam enacted a rule that says:

    “A voter must provide photo identification to the precinct election officer before signing the poll book.” (WAC 434-253-055)

    Sources tell me a public hearing was held on the SOS’s proposed rules on August 9, and this rule was objected to because it obviously conflicts with the legislation. Reed adopted it anyway, on August 22 or thereabouts, and within a day or two began running the TV ad telling voters they need photo ID to vote. Well my friends that TV ad wasn’t scripted, produced, and distributed to media outlets in two days. It takes weeks to make a TV ad. This means the rule adoption process WAS A SHAM. The public input through the written comment process and public hearing meant absolutely nothing because the SOS had already decided to adopt the rule as written above no matter what the public said. This legally invalidates the rule. My sources haven’t told me yet whether a lawsuit will be filed against the SOS, but I think it’s inevitable, given the ACLU is involved. The state Democratic Party is involved, too — I know, because I received a mass e-mail from WSDP about this yesterday. Shit’s gonna hit the fan, and soon. Democrats all over the state are mad, and have every right to be.

    Gotta hand it to Sam Reed, though. He’s now managed to piss off both the Republicans (who are mad at him for certifying the hand recount that put Gregoire in off ice) and now the Democrats whose votes might otherwise have saved him from the angry Republicans. It takes talent to get everybody in an entire state mad at you. Sam Reed is a talented guy. He’s probably also a lame duck.

  5. 5

    Sims and KC to pay $300k for hiding info..

    Armen Yousoufian took KC to court; 4 yrs later got some $$.

    Anyone think KC and Sims still forthcoming?

  7. 7

    Guy who heard Sims say new stadium was justified by economic impact statement, thought, baloney and asked to see a copy. County spent 4 odd years stonewalling him. Oddly he’s got the cojones and money to pursue this. (and he was right, on lack of the study).

    Ever wonder how much Ron costs us beyond the stuff itself, that is, fines, extra studies, the incompetance tax (oh yeah the extra $70mm for the new voter system)..

  10. 10

    Better yet, what, exactly, did Ron Sims have to do with the partial release of the economic studies that Sims mentioned on the radio? Other than the fact that Sims mentioned it on the radio, there’s no evidence that Sims had anything to do with the partial disclosure that’s the root cause of problem.

  11. 11

    Headlice; are you a turk who hates armenians or just ignorant. And btw I thought you guys like diversity? (ps he’s american born)

    Rick; Isn’t Sims the boss, or is he a teflon KC exec?

  14. 14

    I’m continuing to keep a close eye on the outrageous act of barbarism in Seattle committed against three American soldiers (two of whom were beaten unconscious) in Pioneer Square last month by a group of thugs. [Democrats at play!]

    KING 5-TV follows up:

    The first man is black, 5-feet-11 inches tall, 185 pounds, wearing a white baseball cap, a white T-shirt blue jeans and white shoes.
    The second suspect is black, late teens to early 20s, 5-feet-7 inches tall and weighs about 170 pounds. He was in a black T-shirt with “Scarface on it,” black pants, and has gold teeth and cornrows.

    The third suspect is also black, approximately 6 feet tall, wearing a red baseball cap and a white T-shirt.

    If you have any information you are asked to call the Seattle Police Department at 206-684-5550.

    I can’t believe the politically correct liberals at KING 5-TV (and other area media outlets) allowed detailed suspect descriptions to be broadcast. Good for them. I’m sure the local race hustlers are quite unhappy. (Side note: If this heinous crime had taken place in the D.C. area, the Washington Post would likely have whitewashed the descriptions no matter the risk to the public.)

    (Sidenote II: Reader Brian L. writes in, “Regarding the PC police allowing the report to contain the fact the assailants are black…My guess is they allowed it because the victims are also black.”)

    The lowlifes remain on the loose. Meanwhile, readers and fellow bloggers are asking many of the same questions I have.

    Why, for example, did it take so damned long for the Seattle PD to release the video of the beating and suspect descriptions? (Police won’t say when they received the video from a tipster.)

    And, as depicted in the video released to KOMO-TV, why did at least two bystanders with cameras escape the assailants’ wrath and violence?

    Rob Port at Say Anything has an interesting theory about a sleazy business that sells videotapes of “real fights” and “ghetto fights” on the Internet. Port writes:

    One thing that really makes me think the video taping of this beating was a setup was the way the guy operating the camera was able to walk in amongst the people doing the beating with nothing happening to him. If I were in the middle of committing a crime and somebody was video taping me I’d probably give them a beating too.
    One company that distributes this gross “real fights” stuff has a nominal Seattle tie, and Port has been in contact with police about it. I agree with one of Port’s commenters that the Seattle address given in the registry may be bogus. But it’s worth investigating and Port says the police will be doing that.

    Unfortunately, based on my past experience, I don’t have much confidence in the Seattle PD and the city leadership. I mentioned the infamous Kristopher Kime beating death the other day, in which p.c. police were ordered to stand down as mobs of black youth rampaged the streets. The Kime family sued and won a large settlement and apology. Here’s an excerpt from their lawyers’ summary of the case:

    In the days leading up to Fat Tuesday, the City made flawed and ultimately fatal command decisions that led to results which will forever haunt the Kime family. Testimony elicited during the criminal trial of Jerell Thomas, newspaper accounts, and internal police documents reveal that the City attempted to abandon its duty to protect the public from harm with catastrophic consequences.
    By late Tuesday night, the City was fully aware that gangs had entered the crowd, rampant fighting with throwing of rocks and bottles was occurring. Several people had been mercilessly beaten by Thomas who at one point wielded a skate board to cudgel his victims. Christopher Shirley who went to help a woman under attack was knocked out with the skateboard and awoke with his face split open. The police were not allowed to protect and serve but were ordered to stand by and watch as citizens were brutalized. Mayor Schell had given strict instructions that he was not to be disturbed as he planned on getting a good night’s sleep.

    Kris Kime was with his friends in the midst of Pioneer Square, just under the vantage point of the media and police chief. The group of friends became separated. Some of the young women were assaulted. They were in the process of desperately trying to leave when Kris bent over to help a victimized woman who had been knocked to the ground. As he reached out to her, Kris had no idea that Thomas was approaching him from the rear. Massive blows were delivered to the back of Kris’ head and he fell to the ground. Kris’ friend, Connor O’Neal testified that Kris was “blindsided on the head by two punches” from Thomas.

    Michelle Breasaw, one of Kris’ friends, saw her boyfriend kneeling next to someone on the ground. “There was bleeding coming from his head, so they flipped him over. It was Kristopher Kime.”

    The group of friends and onlookers created a circle around Kris as the mob surged around. A few people tried to kick him.

    As he lay dying in the street, the City stood by and did nothing. Friend Louis Dickinson called 911 to get help. The dispatcher explained that the police would not go in to the melee. “He’s hurt bad” Dickinson pleaded. Not giving up, he ran to the perimeter and begged the police directly. In wooden tones they told him that they had heard the dispatch but would not go in. Meanwhile two off duty paramedics came to help and along with a few of the friends were able to drag Kris out of the square. No ambulances or aid vehicles were present, so Kris was placed into the rear of a patrol car and taken to Harborview.

    Read the whole thing.

    The police brass exhibited similarly incompetent and reckless behavior during the WTO riots in 1999–chaos that then-police chief Norm Stamper blamed on underfunding, rather than his own abject failure to anticipate mass violence.

    Finger-pointing was the standard m.o. at the Seattle P.D. when I covered them in the late 1990s. Things don’t seem to have changed. Seattle-area reader Charles K. writes this morning that blame-the-victim rhetoric is already being floated:

    Thanks for highlighting the savage, animalistic beatings of the two soldiers in Seattle. It came as a shock, but not a surprise, that neither the local police nor the local “media” made any mention of this sick attack until three weeks after the fact. Also, hardly surprising is the comment by the media and the police that the victims should have ignored the groping [MM note: the thugs reportedly groped one of the soldiers’ wives] and simply left…
    This morning the parents of one of the victims told the “media” that at least one Seattle police officer watched the savagery for some time and did absolutely nothing. Shades of the “Mardi Gras” politically correct inaction by Seattle’s finest.

    Contrast this with a minor fire and explosion, this morning, at the local NAACP headquarters in the Rainier Valley. Within in seconds of the event, all the media were screaming “HATE CRIME”. Over and over…until the fire officials went in and found out that faulty wiring and other neglected conditions were the cause of the damage. Very quiet now.

    Anyone want to move to good old friendly, safe Seattle?

  15. 15

    @11

    Thank you for confirming the absence of any evidence that directly links Ron Sims to the failure to fully disclose the economic studies that Yousoufian sought.

    Your evasive response, however, does lead to another question: do you propose that a county executive be held responsible for every act of wrongdoing committed by any county employee? Or does this sort of reasoning only apply when the county executive in question happens to be a Democrat?

  19. 19

    And all leftist-liberals are pathetic, miserable losers who haven’t had a logical, resonable, rational thought or debate in their lives. You’ve all been too busy blaming everyone else for your own individual failure to thrive. But keep your head up Dan and keep working on that phrase “would you like fries with sir” and someday perhaps you’ll have at least one distraction from your pathetic, day to day existance.

  20. 20

    Soooo….am I to understand that rethugs (and yes they are all greedy liars) think (without any proof) that Ron Simms personally took this $70mm and say, maybe bought a Cayman Island mailbox so he could bilk the American people out of billions of our tax dollars without any accountability? Hell maybe Ron could even LOSE say…8 billion dollars without any rethug so much as breathing a question about it… Oh. That’s right ~ that is what Dick Cheney’s company Halliburton did and those facts ARE actually documented…..

    God! Talk about the elephant in the living room!

    righton and redneck: “Move along, nothing to see here….”

    Cat In Seattle <---literally sick at the hypocrisy of these clueless, immoral, people

  21. 21

    P.S. I would also like to include IDGAF in my comments above.

    Listen here you elitist pig in highheels:

    Do you really think liberals are jealous of your whoring, immoral grab for money? See, we actually WORK for a living, we do not expect someone to give us everything. Liberals do not define “success” as killing for profit. We define success as caring for our neighbors enough to make sure everyone wins fairly, not just some elitist, greedheaded prostitutes “winning” by spreading their legs for any moneyed opportunity that comes along. As long as it carries the name Jeeeezus, you think your lying, disgusting death cult is moral? You think you actually hide your filth under those Armani suits?

    What a bunch of hypocrites.

    My rant and disgust, sorry Goldie but IDGAF was TOO much!

    Cat In Seattle

  22. 22

    Mushrooms in the morning for you nutjobs?

    How come Bezos and Ballmer are liable for material misstatements, but you seem to say a determined policy (that sims knew about) to deny material mandated under law is no big deal

    And also, Sims blatently lied

    I’d think good gov’t libs would expect accountability, or is this too close to home for you to be able to fathom.?

  25. 25

    Thank you Cat, Clueless and Rujax for an exact demonstration of what I posted. Other than your rant makes it clear that I left out one thing SOCIALIST losers!

  26. 26

    Wingnut Dictionary entry:

    a logical, resonable, rational thought or debate: dittoheading RNC talking points.

  27. 27

    They know who he is but they’re not saying. The gig is up once we find out who this guy’s political pimp is.

  28. 28

    Jerkoff Creepy Hater @ 14

    You didn’t have to go to so much trouble to “educate” us Seattleites about these 2 beating incidents. We’re all pretty familiar with what happened. If you want to get the shit beaten out of you, go to Pioneer Square after dark. That’s where the winos and gangs hang out, and there’s no police presence after the commuters go home. Seattle has budget problems that limit the number of cops on the streets because the rich people around here (spelled R E P U B L I C A N S) are too fucking cheap to pay taxes. As long as they’re safe in their McMansions they don’t give a shit what happens to anybody else.

  29. 29

    @21

    Please don’t go away, Cat. And whatever you do, DON’T moderate your comments! These blood sucking, widow cheating, greedy fuckers have it coming! Kick ’em in the balls!

  30. 30

    Roger; you help pass some seattle laws that allows good old fashioned law enforcement (e.g. also delete the law against asking if the person is legally here), and I’ll gladly take a tax increase.

    But you offer/argument is false. Its not gop cheapness, its leftie softness.

  32. 32

    righton – What do you mean about the law against asking if someone is in the state legally? Like an immigrant?

    Is your stand: “deporting illegal immigrants is a part of good law enforcement?”

    I’m just asking. You are offering this compromise above about coming over to the side of the consumption tax. You want to trade something relating to immigration?

  33. 33

    “Leftie Softness” ends the moment it comes to a personal confrontation. Then the Rightards whimper like frightened candy-stripers.

  34. 34

    @28

    “Its not gop cheapness, its leftie softness”

    What a load of equestrian methane!! These incidents happen because Seattle doesn’t have ENOUGH COPS, and Seattle doesn’t have enough cops because Seattle doesn’t have ENOUGH MONEY! Now let’s examine why municipal budgets are too cash-strapped to provide citizens with safe downtown streets.

    Washington has the nation’s most regressive state/local tax system. The Gates Commission documented the fact that the bottom quintile pays 16% of their income in state/local taxes while the top quintile pays 4% of their income in state/local taxes. Now which socio-economic class votes Democratic, the bottom 20% or the top 20%? Take a guess. And WHO is blocking tax reform in this state? Republicans, that’s who! They want to suck money from the state’s economy without paying for government services because they’re

    F R E E L O A D E R S

  35. 35

    Rabbit – C’mon… do you think all of us get our “news” from NPR?

    The rich pay by far the most dollars. By far. Not even close. The noble pooooooor pay nowhere near their load, yet the consume an inordinate amount of government services. And by giving them a free ride and insulating them from the consequences of their bad choices, we encourge more bad choices, or at the very least don’t encourage them to change their stupid ways.

    As for GOP blocking tax reform… c’mon… GOP in this state has zero power. None. The dems in this feminocracy have total control. They can do whatever the fuck they want, and there’s not a fucking thing GOP can do to stop them.

  36. 36

    The rich pay by far the most dollars.

    Gee I wonder why after Reagan and now Bush lowered the rates on the rich so much? Maybe, ah the rich are so much richer now!

    And do “government services” include being cannon fodder for delusional neo-con wars to “end tyranny”?

    Redneck you should happy with WA state where the poor pay a bigger chunk of their income in taxes than other states because of the regressive tax structure here.

    Your contempt for women and the poor is disgusting because it is so ignorant.

  37. 37

    Moonbats – Help me with this… Truly Fucking Clueless and Rabbit have demonstrated their neurotic hate of successful people. I really don’t get this mindset. Why do you hate so much? What have we done wrong?

  38. 38

    36

    We don’t anybody, Redneck. But we think a single parent who works full-time for a daycare has the same right to the necessities of life (including medical care) that you do, and we don’t believe the fact she makes $8.00 an hour makes her a less worthy person or less valuable to society than you. So get off your arrogant high horse.

  39. 39

    With these fucking Republicans everything is about money, money, money. They’ll crawl through any gutter to get money! They treat anybody with less money than they have like dog shit. And they don’t want to pay their fair share! They want to make their money by using OPM (other people’s money), they want to fight their wars with OPC (other people’s children), and they want their highways, schools, and government services paid for by OPT (other people’s taxes). They’re

    F R E E L O A D E R S

  41. 41

    Wabbit @ 36 – OK. Can you enumerate the specific “rights” that she (or anybody else) has? Please make a list. Quantify these rights if possible. You mentioned medical care, but I’m wondering what other “rights” you think exist.

  42. 42

    Lucy @ 38 – STFU. We’re trying to talk. Go ask your “life partner” if she’d like to have her pussy licked. Try the Kinison “alphabet tracing” technique. Repeat to yourself “I am not painting a fence… I am not painting a fence… I am not painting a fence…”

  44. 44

    Bingo! MTR, I hit a nerve! I didn’t know Sam Kinison was into primary education!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    WWWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHH! WWWWHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHH!

    Whadaya mean we killed Jesus and He died for our sins. Youcan’t kill him. He’s God!!!!!!!!!

  45. 45

    Guys – Check out lucy’s response to alphabet technique. Looks like the mere mention of it works. Wow..

    Too bad she Can’t Understand Normal Thinking.

  46. 46

    Moonbats – I’d also like to know what you think of I-900. Since it was spearheaded by the spiritual father of HA, I’m assuming all you good enlightened progressives are against it. I’d love to know why…

  48. 48

    Righton – I-900 is performance audits for all levels of gummint. Brought by The Spiritual Father of HA. It’ll quantify mega-boondoggles like Sound Transit and expose essential services such King County’s babysitter referral service and a hotline that provides dating tips. It’ll question whether gummint bureaucrats are “entitled” to drive luxury SUVs paid for by the taxpayers.

  49. 49

    After what his personal “pastor” Pat Robertson said about assassinating Chavez he’s got the nerve to call us MOONBATS!!!!!!!!!??????????

  50. 50

    Lucy – Did the alphabet technique work? You’re babbling incoherently, so I guess it did.

    By the way… grown-up word of the day “steganography”.

  51. 51

    ……and you, MTR, can look up , “glossolalia” and “eating pussy”. Hint: It’s something “Dr.” Frist engages in.

  52. 52

    Lucy – do you have an opinion on entitlements or I-900? I’d love to hear the feminazikook perspective.

  54. 54

    Mark The Redneck @all HL references:

    Umm, “she” is actually a “he” and loves to teach your children wrestling moves in public school. Funny that he would know his own language (glossolalia)…The only perspective you get from him is the “kook” perspective. You’d think he was an aspiring Catholic priest…

  55. 55

    Marks @ 51 – Holy Crap – How do you tell the difference between an actual vagina and a metrosexual seattle progressive? Is there a difference?

  57. 57

    MTR @52

    I have no idea, but if you interact enough with someone (whatever the descriptor) over the internet, you glean something from the responses. Perhaps I am so bad off that I have inured my physical self from the expected resultant damage (I hope, I hope, I hope)…then again, truth in advertising has fallen to such a low point in our lives, mayhap I am jaundiced…

  58. 58

    Twenty years of taxpayer-financed education and this is what we get?

    Comment by Roger Rabbit— 8/27/05 @ 7:11 pm

    Umm, what did you expect?

  59. 59

    Reply to 48

    If you know what “steganography” means you’re probably a commie spy. Interesting. Posing as a bloodsucking commodities trader, freeloading Republican, and woman-hating chauvinist with a fixation on sexual pervisions would provide a perfect cover, wouldn’t it? Somebody report this bastard to the FBI.

  61. 61

    Reply to 39

    Why should I bother? In your Wingnutty world, no one has any rights, you see everything in terms of the strongest helping themselves to whatever they can take.

  63. 63

    Roger Rabbit @57

    I have no expectations where MTR is concerned – none whatsoever.

    Yet you question the education system? 20 years of an education “system” is not enough, regardless of political persuasion. Then again, perhaps it is too much…

  64. 64

    When people call Repugs. “RASCISTS”, it’s an intentional misspelling. If you want secret messages go to WESTERN UNION!

  66. 66

    So in other words, Rabbit won’t come right out and make the case for grouchoandharpoism, but he will make rigoddamdiculous claims about “entitlements” to medical care for scourge of the earth single mothers.

    And alphabet pussylicking lucy is not informed enought to make the case that gummint should not be held accountable.

    My education is not “taxpayer financed”. None of it. All my degrees are from private universities. That would never even occur to you freeloading libs would it?

  68. 68

    HEY RABBIT
    If money is all we think about why the fuck dont you donate your sorry ass retirement check to the homeles.you sorry fuckhead

  69. 69

    thanks lucidless for the nazi tag; pity the day real nazis show up since you’ve cried wolf ad nauseum…

  71. 71

    When WWIII Started

    A must read historical account of Terrorism against the US ~

    This is not very long, but very informative. You have to read the catalogue of events in this brief piece. Then, ask yourself how anyone can take the position that all we have to do is bring our troops home from Iraq, sit back, reset the snooze alarm, go back to sleep, and no one will ever bother us again. In case you missed it, World War III began in November 1979…

    That alarm has been ringing for years.

    US Navy Captain Ouimette is the Executive Officer at Naval Air Station, Pensacola, Florida. Here is a copy of the speech he gave last month. It is an accurate account of why we are in so much trouble today and why this action is so necessary.

    AMERICA NEEDS TO WAKE UP!

    That’s what we think we heard on the 11th of September 2001 (When more than 3,000 Americans were killed -AD) and maybe it was, but I think it should have been “Get Out of Bed!” In fact, I think the alarm clock has been buzzing since 1979 and we have continued to hit the snooze button and roll over for a few more minutes of peaceful sleep since then.

    It was a cool fall day in November 1979 in a country going through a religious and political upheaval when a group of Iranian students attacked and seized the American Embassy in Tehran. This seizure was an outright attack on American soil; it was an attack that held the world’s most powerful country hostage and paralyzed a Presidency. The attack on this sovereign U. S. embassy set the stage for events to follow for the next 25
    years.

    America was still reeling from the aftermath of the Vietnam experience and had a serious threat from the Soviet Union when then, President Carter, had to do something. He chose to conduct a clandestine raid in the desert. The ill-fated mission ended in ruin, but stood as a symbol of America’s inability to deal with terrorism.

    America’s military had been decimated and down sized/right sized since the end of the Vietnam War. A poorly trained, poorly equipped and poorly organized military was called on to execute a complex mission that was doomed from the start.

    Shortly after the Tehran experience, Americans began to be kidnapped and killed throughout the Middle East. America could do little to protect her citizens living and working abroad. The attacks against US soil continued.

    In April of 1983 a large vehicle packed with high explosives was driven into the US Embassy compound in Beirut When it explodes, it kills 63 people. The alarm went off again and America hit the Snooze Button once more.

    Then just six short months later in 1983 a large truck heavily laden down with over 2500 pounds of TNT smashed through the main gate of the US Marine Corps headquarters in Beirut and 241 US servicemen are killed. America mourns her dead and hit the Snooze Button once more.

    Two months later in December 1983, another truck loaded with explosives is driven into the US Embassy in Kuwait, and America continues her slumber.

    The following year, in September 1984, another van was driven into the gate of the US Embassy in Beirut and America slept.

    Soon the terrorism spreads to Europe. In April 1985 a bomb explodes in a restaurant frequented by US soldiers in Madrid.

    Then in August 1985 a Volkswagen loaded with explosives is driven into the main gate of the US Air Force Base at Rhein-Main, 22 are killed and the snooze alarm is buzzing louder and louder as US interests are continually attacked.

    Fifty-nine days later in 1985 a cruise ship, the Achille Lauro is hijacked and we watched as an American in a wheelchair is singled out of the passenger list and executed.

    The terrorists then shift their tactics to bombing civilian airliners when they bomb TWA Flight 840 in April of

    1986 that killed 4 and the most tragic bombing, Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland in 1988, killing 259.

    Clinton treated these terrorist acts as crimes; in fact we are still trying to bring these people to trial. These are acts of war.

    The wake up alarm is getting louder and louder.

    The terrorists decide to bring the fight to America. In January 1993, two CIA agents are shot and killed as they enter CIA headquarters in Langley, Virginia.

    The following month, February 1993, a group of terrorists are arrested after a rented van packed with explosives is driven into the underground parking garage of the World Trade Center in New York City. Six people are killed and over 1000 are injured. Still this is a crime and not an act of war? The Snooze alarm is depressed again.

    Then in November 1995 a car bomb explodes at a US military complex in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia killing seven service men and women.

    A few months later in June of 1996, another truck bomb explodes only 35 yards from the US military compound in Dhahran, Saudi Arabia. It destroys the Khobar Towers, a US Air Force barracks, killing 19 and injuring over 500. The terrorists are getting braver and smarter as they see that America does not respond decisively.

    They move to coordinate their attacks in a simultaneous attack on two US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania.. These attacks were planned with precision. They kill 224. America responds with cruise missile attacks and goes back to sleep.

    The USS Cole was docked in the port of Aden, Yemen for refueling on 12 October 2000, when a small craft pulled along side the ship and exploded killing 17 US Navy Sailors. Attacking a US War Ship is an act of war, but we sent the FBI to investigate the crime and went back to sleep.

    And of course you know the events of 11 September 2001. Most Americans think this was the first attack against US soil or in America. How wrong they are. America has been under a constant attack since 1979 and we chose to hit the snooze alarm and roll over and go back to sleep.

    In the news lately we have seen lots of finger pointing from every high official in government over what they knew and what they didn’t know. But if you’ve read the papers and paid a little attention I think you can see exactly what they knew. You don’t have to be in the FBI or CIA or on the National Security Council to see the pattern that has been developing since 1979.

    The President is right on when he says we are engaged in a war. I think we have been in a war for the past 25 years and it will continue until we as a people decide enough is enough. America needs to “Get out of Bed” and act decisively now. America has been changed forever. We have to be ready to pay the price and make the sacrifice to ensure our way of life continues. We cannot afford to keep hitting the snooze button again and again and roll over and go back to sleep.

    After the attack on Pearl Harbor, Admiral Yamamoto said “… it seems all we have done is awakened a sleeping giant.” This is the message we need to disseminate to terrorists around the world.

    Support Our Troops and support President Bush for having the courage, political or militarily, to address what so many who preceded him didn’t have the backbone to do, both Democrat and Republican. This is not a political thing to be hashed over in an election year this is an AMERICAN thing. This is about our Freedom and the Freedom of our children in years to come.

    If you believe in this please forward it to as many people as you can especially to the young people and all those who dozed off in history class and who seem so quick to protest such a necessary military action. If you don’t believe it, just delete it and go back to sleep.

  72. 72

    JC Bob – … and did ANY of these terrorist attacks have ANYTHING to do with Iraq? No. In fact the word “Iraq” is not even in that huge post of yours. THAT IS THE POINT. We support our soldiers. We support our couIntry. We DO NOT support military adventurism….

  73. 73

    JC Bob – … and before you start, “staying the course” is not the reason we invaded, nor is it a reason to stay. Oh, and neither is “we gotta find them WMDs”. Or “he shot at my dad”. In fact, what WAS the reason we invaded Iraq? Hmmmm?

  74. 74

    hang_fire @69

    We DO NOT support military adventurism

    I have wondered what such a term means. Can you explain military adventurism? I can’t wait to find out what you think it means.

    BTW – did you ever serve?

  75. 75

    – Yes. I am retired Army with twenty four years of service and three combat tours. Military adventurism is just another term for Bush’s foreign policy… Now, answer this one: Why did we invade Iraq?

  76. 76

    re 68: What specifically, JCB, do you mean by: “our way of life.” This is not some Norman Rockwell illustration we’re talking about. If preserving this system so we can be ripped-off by the corporations we’re saving is your idea of a good deal , I’m afraid you’ve got quite a sales job ahead of yourself.
    Has any one of our neo-con leaders so much as lost one relative in this “important” struggle? I’ll start to believe it when I see the MASTERS OF WAR pay the price theselves.

  77. 77

    @68

    “In April of 1983 a large vehicle packed with high explosives was driven into the US Embassy compound in Beirut … later in 1983 a large truck heavily laden down with over 2500 pounds of TNT smashed through the main gate of the US Marine Corps headquarters in Beirut … in December 1983, another truck loaded with explosives is driven into the US Embassy in Kuwait … in September 1984, another van was driven into the gate of the US Embassy in Beirut … April 1985 a bomb explodes in a restaurant frequented by US soldiers in Madrid … in August 1985 a Volkswagen loaded with explosives is driven into the main gate of the US Air Force Base at Rhein-Main … in 1985 a cruise ship, the Achille Lauro is hijacked … terrorists then shift their tactics to bombing civilian airliners when they bomb TWA Flight 840 in April of 1986 … we are still trying to bring these people to trial.”

    The 1st thing I did with this, of course, was run a debunker check on it. According to TruthOrFiction.com, Navy Capt. Dan Ouimette (ret.) is a real person, and really gave this speech. http://www.truthorfiction.com/.....ake-up.htm Okay, so there really IS a retired Navy captain as ignorant of facts as this guy — hell, he doesn’t even know who was president from 1980 to 1988!

    Hey Bob … Dan … helloooo … REAGAN was president when all of these events occurred!!! Oh, and Mr. Ouimette, you’re also mistaken (or maybe intentionally loose with truth) when you say we’re “still trying to bring these people to trial” — let’s add to the falsehoods in your polemic that the Achille Lauro hijackers were captured and imprisoned, and a Libyan intelligence agent was convicted and imprisoned in the Lockerbie bombing. You didn’t get the Admiral Yamamota quote right, either. Clearly, Captain Dan is not someone who bothers with fact checking.

    “Clinton treated these terrorist acts as crimes”

    Ah! Now we see! The object of Captain Dan’s jingoistic (and factually sloppy) diabtribe is to BLAME CLINTON!! So what else is new.

    Interesting that a former military officer who did a third-grade job on his research picked an alarm-clock analogy to describe how America was caught napping on Sept. 11, 2001. (Pssst — Clinton wasn’t president then, either — Dubya was!)

    If someone more honest than JC Bob or Capt. Dan Ouimette (ret.) were to look into the real reasons why Sept. 11 happened here’s what they’d find out:

    “During the transition between administrations, National Security Adviser Sandy Berger arranged several extensive briefings on this last subject for Bush’s incoming national security adviser, Condoleeza Rice, and others on the Bush team, including Vice President Cheney. … Berger told them that Osama bin Laden was an ‘existential threat’ and told them that he wanted ‘to underscore how important this issue is.’ In another briefing, Richard Clarke, head of counterrorism in the NSC, the single most knowledgeable expert in the government, gave them a complete tutorial on the subject. In yet another briefing, CIA officials were brought in to go over all the intelligence available on terrorism.

    “Don Kerrick, a three-star general and outgoing deputy national security adviser, overlapped for four months with the new Bush people. He submitted a memo for the new National Security Council warning of the danger of terrorism. ‘We are going to be struck again,’ he wrote. But as Kerrick explained to me, he received no answer to his memo. ‘They didn’t respond,’ he said. ‘They never responded. It was not high on their priority list. I was never invited to one meeting. They never asked me to do anything. They were not focusing. They didn’t see terrorism as the big megaissue that the Clinton administration saw it as. They were concentrated on what they thought were higher priorities than terrorism.’ The Principals meeting of national security officials took up terrorism only once, after constant pressure from Clarke, on September 4, 2001, and at that meeting they discussed using unmanned Predator drone spy aircraft, but no decision was made. ‘Unfortunately,’ said Kerrick, ‘September 11 gave them something to focus on.’”

    — Sidney Blumenthal, The Clinton Wars (New York: Farrar, Strauss, and Giroux, 2003), pp. 797-798.

    Now — do you want to know what Clinton REALLY did about terrorism? Read this article. http://www.star.niu.edu/perspe.....linton.asp

    “When in doubt, don’t blame Clinton”

    “Ken Beck, Perspective Columnist
    Monday, September 15, 2003”

    “So, I hate to write about politics two weeks in a row … but last Thursday, Jack Daniel wrote something so asinine that I couldn’t let him get away with it.

    “In his piece about respecting the military, he wrote, ‘Had former President Bill Clinton pursued terrorism with more authority like President George Bush, Sept. 11 might not ever have happened.’ He asked what Clinton did about the USS Cole bombing. His answer: ‘Nothing. Nothing was done.’ Finally, his conclusion: ‘Because of our lax approach to this event, the terrorists felt it was proper time to launch a full-scale attack; this is why Sept. 11 occurred.’

    “That’s an excellent point. And you know what would’ve made it even better? If it were true. But it’s one of those right-wing lies that finds its way into the mainstream.

    “Here’s what former counterterrorism official in the Reagan Administration Robert Oakley told The Washington Post on Dec. 24, 2000, about Clinton’s national security policy: ‘Overall, I give them very high marks.’ He went on: ‘The only major criticism I have is the obsession with Osama, which made him stronger.’

    “Only 38 days into Clinton’s presidency in 1993, the World Trade Center was bombed. Did he blame Bush Sr.? No, he oversaw the effort that captured and convicted these terrorists.

    “Look at what Clinton did to the FBI’s counterterrorism budget: He tripled it. He was the first president to sponsor a crime bill that included antiterrorism legislation including an order to stockpile vaccines for smallpox and anthrax.

    “Clinton ordered the CIA to assassinate Osama bin Laden in 1996 after the twin embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania. And after the USS Cole bombing, Clinton did nothing … except formulate a plan to attack and destroy the terrorist training camps in Afghanistan and appoint counterterrorism expert Richard Clarke to head it up.

    “According to Time magazine on Aug. 12, 2002, the plan also included ways to cut off terrorist funding, support Northern Alliance forces in Afghanistan and give aid to countries facing al-Qaida insurgence. The same Time article quotes a Bush Administration official saying that the plan was ‘everything we’ve done since 9-11.’

    “Unfortunately, that plan wasn’t completed until Bush took office, and it was ignored despite carrying Clarke over from the Clinton Administration. Clinton’s National Security Adviser Sandy Berger briefed Condoleeza Rice about the al-Qaida threat. And what did Condi do about it? The same Time article reported she didn’t even bother to pass the info onto President Bush.

    “Maybe we should be asking what George W. Bush did to prevent 9-11. He was in office for eight months. The CIA warned him on Aug. 6 that terrorists may use jetliners to attack the U.S. That answer is nothing.

    …

    “So why do some people think it’s a good idea to point their fingers at a former president who did more to combat terrorism than any president before him?

    “Because right-wingers just despise Bill Clinton and resent all the good he’s done for this country. They can’t stand the fact that he was one of the most successful presidents in history, despite the constant character assassination attempts coming from the right.

    “I say get over Clinton and find Osama bin Laden! Remember him?”

    Ummm … noooo … they don’t remember him.

    “I don’t know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don’t care. It’s not that important. It’s not our priority. I am truly not that concerned about him.” – George W. Bush, March 13, 2002

    Comment: There’s two things we can always count on from wingnuts like JC Bob and Dan Ouimette — they blame everything on Clinton, and they’re fucking liars.

  78. 78

    I posted a response to #68 that went into Goldy’s spam filter (probably because of its length). The gist of what I posted is:

    1. Capt. Ouimette is a real person, and really gave this speech.
    2. Ouimette many made factual errors, the most egregious being that he seems to think Clinton was president during 1983 – 1988.
    3. Clinton made strenuous efforts to combat terrorism.
    4. Bush and his advisers ignored warnings about Osama and terrorists who planned to hijack jetliners.
    5. And, of course, 9/11 happened on Bush’s watch.

    Hopefully my full reply will be posted soon. I concluded it by calling JC Bob and Capt. Dan Ouimette fucking liars, because that’s what they are.

  79. 79

    Isn’t it funny how these wingnut idiots pick up whatever jingoistic diatribe is circulating in the right-wing blogosphere and regurgitate it without doing any fact checking or utilizing a single cell of gray matter? They don’t even bother to run it through a debunker.

  80. 80

    JC Bob, Marks – either one of you have an answer? Simple question. Why did we invade Iraq? No? Didn’t think so.

  82. 82

    [A Little Democrat In The Making!! Read On……..!!]
    KANSAS CITY, Kan — An 11 year-old boy is accused of forcing a teenager and two young children out of a car and then driving the stolen vehicle to school the next morning. The boy, whose name was not released because of his age, was charged with aggravated robbery in juvenile court on Friday. A detention hearing was set for Monday.

  83. 83

    Comment on 83

    “Nature has a way of compensating for weaknesses, which is why stupid people have big mouths.” — Scott Adams

  84. 84

    Hey Jerkoff Creepy Hater — when your mother put your head in the microwave oven how did she make it run without closing the door?

  85. 85

    Hey Jerkoff … where ya been … we missed ya! Did you just get out of jail? Do you have to register with the police? Why does your mother hate you?

  86. 86

    @83: Uhhhh JCH… boy you people are grabbing for anything aren’t you? How can you even have anything to say against progressive and liberal people when your own is so immoral? What does your comment have to do with anything in this conversation? Sheesh. An 11 year old kid. Can you say the same about just about any conservative today? They are all lying, stealing, hypocritical herds of cattle. Every other word is about how holy they are, when behind the scenes they are all fucking money. I bet they take their bank accounts to bed with them, lol.

    What a bunch of perverts! But since rethugs just bilk for money and aren’t screwing some boy (publically anyway) or an unmarried woman, well killing, stealing and hoarding resources while others starve is all right in your book, huh? Wait a minute, oh yeah that’s right…screwing boys is all right for conservative politicians in Spokane and male prostitutes posing as journalists in the Whorehouse errr Whitehouse is just fine as long as they lie about it, isn’t it?

    Why don’t you talk about some REAL crimes like starting a “shock and awe” war based on a bunch of lies? Where is your outrage at engaging the entire country in a war that kills thousands of people so a few slobbering, avaricious elititists can add to their bank accounts? You think this is American? Perhaps you should read about the Boston Tea Party. You might find out (if you had the brains) our forebearers were disgusted about corporate elitists like the ones that began the carnage topday that you worship. Oh. That’s right. In your book, anybody with money is a saint.

    Just because people haven’t been arrested does not mean they aren’t criminals ~ and the ones I speak about are WAR criminals. Greedy war criminals, the most disgusting of human beings. The law means nothing if it does not hold accountable people who cause that kind of senseless death. The law is just a bunch of moldy papers sitting on some judicial shelf ignoring crimes against humanity, while waiting for desperate, hurting, little kids ~ who are increasing by the millions, thanks to your people’s draconian policies and laws. Republicans, right wing religious nuts, and conservatives are just billowing putrid green air if they do not speak out about the most heinous of crimes but instead point to an 11 year old kid, like a child’s actions illustrates anything close to what you ignore.

    G Greedy
    O Opportunistic
    P Pigs

    Cat In Seattle

  87. 87

    Clueless @36.

    Okay tell us again with 20 years+ of the democrats being in charge in this state why they haven’t changed the tax structure to one which you propose? The lone candidate for governor that even mentioned a fairer tax structure got his ass kicked in the democratic primary last fall. Your party isn’t for a fairer tax structure so quit blaming the republicans. It will take a bi-partisan support to change this and since your party won’t even talk about it…don’t blame mine. You’ll notice that in the last legislative sesson the democrats only raised the regressive taxes, the ones that hurt the poor people more. Poor people don’t have enough power to stop them

    Roger @ 38

    20 years of poor state leadership has gotten us single mothers who are only qualified to work $8.00 an hour jobs with horrible benefit packages. It all comes down to education.

    We as citizens of the state voted for two packages that increased the funding for the schools and lowered the class sizes. (I donated funds to support both inititives) Once again it was the democratic governor who suspended the will of the people.

    You can’t have a good paying job without an education. Seattle graduation rate is 50.9% That means that 49.1% of the kids do not have the education to compete for higher paying jobs. until that number changes for the better the seattle school district is just churning out a large number of Wal-Mart employees.

    What we have is a state (the citizens) that refuses to pay for anything because we have been burnt some many times by poor leadership. Unfortunately because of this, I find myself supporting performance audits. I view it as a way to increase the confidence in the citizens of this state so that they will support bills that benefit us all. (better education, better roads….better state)

  88. 88

    Cat in Seattle: “Progressive: Another word for Communist. Famous “Progressives”: Fidel, Mao, Dear Leader Jung, Hillary, Teddy [Oldsmobile] Kennedy [D-Chavis], and stupid parasite Democrats

  89. 89

    Cat In Seattle………”Perhaps you should read about the Boston Tea Party.” Wasn’t the Boston Tea Party about high taxes? Gee, I’m SURE you would have been right there, you communist. [hehe]

  90. 90

    Subject: MONTANA HOSPITALITY!!

    DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM?

    Star 100.7 Radio Station was doing one of their “is anyone listening who” bits this morning. The first one was, “Ever have a celebrity pull the ‘do you know who I am’ routine?”

    A lady called in and said that when she was visiting her cattle rancher Uncle in Billings, MT a few years ago, they went to dinner at a restaurant that does not take reservations. The wait was about 45 minutes. Lots of other rancher types and their spouses were already waiting.

    In comes Ted Turner and Jane Fonda. They want a table. The hostess says they’ll have to wait about 45 minutes. Jane Fonda asks if she knows who she is? “Yes, but you’ll still have to wait 45 minutes.” Then Jane says, “Is the manager in?”

    The manager comes out, “May I help you?” “Do you know who I am?”, ask both Jane and Ted. “Yes, but these folks have all been waiting already and I can’t put you in ahead of them.”

    Then Ted asks to speak to the owner. The owner comes out. Jane again asks, “do you know who I am?”

    The owner says “Yes, I do…. Do you know who I am? I am the owner of this restaurant and a Vietnam Veteran. Not only will you not get a table ahead of all of my friends and neighbors here, but you also will not be eating in my restaurant tonight or any other night. Good bye.”

    Only in America, what a great country!

  91. 91

    This was cute:

    Congressman questions VP’s ability to perform duties

    “Well, he’s a sick man you know,” Rangel said. “He’s got heart disease, but the disease is not restricted to that part of his body. He grunts a lot, so you never really know what he’s thinking.”

    http://www.newsday.com/news/lo.....-apnewyork

  93. 93

    @88

    Because the selfish, greedy Republicans who controlled the State Senate since 1994 (and the State House at various times) are perfectly happy with taxing the poor, working class, and small business so they can skate.

  95. 95

    I take back part of what I said about Jerkoff in #95. He’s probably a virgin. I can’t imagine anyone fucking that retard.

  96. 96

    jch @ 89

    Who is “Dear Leader Jung” — Carl Jung? Or are you going to illuminate us all on the Juche idea?

  97. 97

    Roger Rabbit…..Democrats are the parasites of America. All demand others to be taxed to “redistribute” wealth and pay their way. Atlas has Shrugged, and “progressives” [communists] like Maxine Waters, Shriley Jackson Lee, Hillary, Teddy Kennedy, and other libs are nothing but tax payer sucking vermin. Republicans must just move away from the libs, forcing the parasites to tax each other. That should be fun to watch, as “guvment” employees tax blacks and illegals [Democrats all]. Again, this is right out of Ayn Rand.

  99. 99

    #90

    Well duh! Yes the Boston Tea Party was about high taxes ~ that is my point. The elitist, moneyed rich people imposed these taxes on the common people and the taxes the little guy paid went right back into the pockets of the elitists ~ just like it is happening today with us. Oh sure, the rich afford to pay 2% of THIER income of millions or billions, but that is not the percentage the rest of us pay. The wealthy also get big tax breaks we little people would never get.

    The little people are expected to pay 15-20% of our incomes with *no* breaks like what the upper classes receive back from us. We know our taxes are financing those business trips to the places like Africa and the Orient so you can find such “humananitarian” use for all those little boys and girls. You provide jobs, don’t you, for those poor women and children. All those people for whom you do not care about whether they die in sweatshops or from being repeatedly raped, as long as you make a buck or two off them, right?

    But I digress. I noticed that you did not address the questions I have raised on this forum in the first place, except in superficial ways. No surprise, since you have no answers for the shameful way conservatives have behaved. You have all the power and most of the money, yet you still whine and refuse to take responsibility for misery YOU supported and thus caused. You support unjust wars, the suppression of people, the taking of resources for enrichment of a few, the bad economy where only McJobs are the ones to be found, and you have taxed the hell out of us with your selfish unAmerican behaviours. Sooo….

    Tsk-tsk….I know you are just frightened little boys who cannot address the truth. Poor, poor babies! It is just too scary to take responsibility for your friends that you wuv so much, I know I know Snokums….It is too much to really look at the realities of Frat-boy Bush, bloody wars you are only too glad to have others fight but are too much of a chickenhawk to fight yourselves. I’d not want face the evil personna of Cheney and his company Halliburton’s disgusting money grubbing made from the blood of our kids and Iraqis either, or where our taxes are really going to Cayman Island mailbozes and into the pockets of people who could give a rat’s ass about America, ain’t it just too too much? Oh ootzi bootsies….Somewhere inside you know you are full of crap, Little Scared Pussies. So you say, “Look over there! Shiny!” I feel so sorry for you, I really really do! It must be hard to take the truth, all right, especially for a bunch of poor little spoiled brats. (pat, pat, pat)

    Cat In Seattle

  100. 100

    Roger @ 94

    That wasn’t the greedy republicans that stuck it to the poor people in the last legislative session.

  101. 101

    You never addressed the questions I am asking, but I know it is just because you are afraid, poor little pussies…Tsk-tsk…. poor frightened little boys. Poor poor babies! It is just too scary to take responsibility for your friends that you wuv so much, I know, I know little Snokums….It is just too-too much to really look at the realities of Frat-boy Bush, bloody wars you are only too glad to have others fight but are too much of a chickenhawk to fight yourselves,huh? I would be afraid too if I had to face the evil personna of Cheney and his company Halliburton’s disgusting money grubbing on the blood of our kids and thousands of Iraqis, much less having to face that, thanks to Bu$h, the reality our taxes are going to Cayman Island mailboxes and into the pockets of people who could give a rat’s ass about ‘Merica, is really happening. Awwww ain’t it just too much? Oh ootzi bootsies….Somewhere inside you know you are full of crap, little ones. This is why you say, “Quick! Look over there! Shiny!” I feel so sorry for you, I really really do! It must be scarey for little spoiled brat pussies to actually use your pretty little heads, all right. Shhhh! I know, I know…..(pat, pat, pat)….

  102. 102

    Cat, The tax revenue went to GOVERNMENT! Duh……..are you a dumb sh!t!!! The “elitist” are the limo libs [Clintons, Kerrys [12 % MTR on millions for Therasa!], Kennedys] These are your leaders!!! Cat……..tell Theraaaaasaaa Kerry to pay her “fair share”!!!! [hehe]

  103. 103

    Support Jesse Jackson and Maxine Waters for the Democrat ticket in 08………or you are racist and hate blacks!!!! [hehe]

  104. 104

    I lived in AZ and CO most of my life and the political atmosphere here is a breath of fresh air compared to the foetid, ignorant Republican minds you find dominating those other two states. Remember, AZ is the state that lost the Superbowl because our Gov. Mecham refused to apoligize for calling black children “pickaninnies”. He insisted it was a term of affection…… And the state, by and large, supported him.

  105. 105

    105…..AZ and CO went for Bush [twice!] You need to live in great Democrat citie, like Detroit or Gary, ID. Yes, you need to meet with your fellow Democrats and make new friends late at night in these “love fests” cities.

  107. 107

    @78 – 3. Clinton made strenuous efforts to combat terrorism.

    Clinton spent more time and effort hunting down and prosecuting Bill Gates than he did Osama Bin Laden.

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