Enjoy your sandbox.
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I think the sandbox is going to turn into a shitbox real quickly, knowing the wingnuts.
kid oakland at his best:
there’s more here:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/7/8/14597/18323
In times like these, it’s important to keep one salient fact on the table at all times:
The ambitious, inflexible, small-minded prigs who currently run the United States government are wrong. They are:
– wrong about Iraq
– wrong about terror
– wrong about what makes us safe
– and they are wrong about what makes us strong
It is no surprise, however, that in the wake of the recent tragedy in London, that the GOP and the nattering, blathering nabobs who dominate our airwaves will tell us….with a straight face no less, and in the name of “spreading Democracy”…that we who disagree with them should simply shut up.
Interesting that.
I’m not going to shut up, and neither should you.
I wrote last summer that only with the defeat of George Bush would we as a nation get a chance to sort through what happened to all of us and to our world on September 11th, 2001. Despite our best efforts, that did not happen.
We did not get a chance, without the Bush Administration defensively hiding, obfuscating and lying about its own actions, to sift through the events leading up to and following 9/11 and draw our own conclusions in the sober light of day. At the same time, over the course of the 2004 campaign we were subjected to the appropriation of the events of 9/11 for political purposes. We know this is true.
The GOP has made a political linkage of our national tragedy to their political party.
Think about that for a second. 9/11 happened to all of us, with the heaviest burden suffered by New York City…but it was George Bush who used actual footage of flag draped coffins from Ground Zero in his campaign ads. It was the GOP that spent their convention sanctimoniously invoking the events of that day over and over again. It was Dick Cheney who invoked the fear of more attacks, and Condoleeza Rice who used the phrase “a mushroom cloud” to justify invading Iraq.
That was no accident.
From the very beginning the events of 9/11 and “the war on terror” have been used to reshape our political landscape and our national security priorities. From the very beginning, even at the time of George Bush’s initial speech before a united Congress just days after the attacks…there was a plan afoot to make 9/11 mean one thing: a war in Iraq to reshape the Middle East….a war that this Administration had been planning since before 9/11.
Now, in July of 2005, with another attack, this time in London, and George Bush’s war in Iraq entering it’s third year in full swing with no end in sight, it is quite clear to all of us that a brutal equation is in full force:
9/11 = Iraq
the “war on terror” = Iraq
our response to al Qaeda = Iraq
the bulk of our spending in response to terror = Iraq
our response to any new attack anywhere in the world = Iraq
And we all know….even those blathering AM radio hate-jockeys know…that the war in Iraq, unlike our forgotten and ongoing war in Afghanistan, was based on an outright lie.
Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. And further, there were no WMD in Iraq. Neither of these rationales for war in Iraq justified sending our citizens to fight and die there. Simply put, there was no threat.
Dick Cheney can sputter till he’s blue in the face. He can lie through his teeth again and again….heck, he’s done so repeatedly. But Dick Cheney can’t change the fact that he and George Bush made our national response to 9/11 a unilateral, highly divisive invasion of Iraq that had nothing to do with 9/11 or WMD. Nothing. Zero. Nada.
And so we have passed through the looking glass.
In the wake of bombings in London that have the hallmark signature of al Qaeda…our world is asked, once again, to recommit to George Bush and Tony Blair’s advocacy of this war.
And if we speak up against this insanity we are told to shut up. If we state the obvious: that more attacks don’t retroactively justify a misguided, poorly executed war that was based on an outright lie: we are told, simply put, that we should be silent.
In a nutshell, the GOP has determined that our response to 9/11 or any new act of terror is…Iraq….and if you disagree with that equation, you are weak and evil. Friends, we have passed through the looking glass.
It didn’t have to be this way.
Those who attacked the United States on September 11th, 2001 had us in their sights long before George Bush became President. If their goal, however, was to destabilize the United States and lure us into the misuse of our own power, they have succeeded thanks in large part to none other than George W. Bush. There is no hiding from this.
Strength is best expressed in the potential use of force. Our national security is best expressed by wars we don’t fight and diplomatic successes we do win. And while, sometimes, in the course of events, we must use force, and must be ready to do so at all times and win; our strength is best expressed by the victories we win without firing a gun or shooting a missile.
That logic is what civilization and democracy is about on a bedrock level, and we all know it. That equation is one of our core values. It is not, however, George Bush’s.
Every time a great power uses force is a situation fraught with potential downsides. First, because the use of force represents a failure of diplomatic and tactical pressures. And second, because failure in the use of force greatly reduces the perceived power of any nation. This is why, when great nations absolutely need to go to war, they build coalitions that guarantee that they will prevail, and ask every one of their citizens to make sacrifices in support of the cause.
That is the catch-22 of Iraq….just as it was the catch-22 of Viet Nam. We are pouring more and more of our resources into this fight…the wrong fight, in the wrong place, at the very worst time…not because it is reaping benefits.
It isn’t.
Nor are we are pouring resources and our fellow citizen-soldiers lives into Iraq because it has proven highly effective at stopping acts of terror.
It hasn’t.
We are fighting in Iraq because once George Bush misguidedly committed our great nation to this project the cost of failure was much too high for us to let it fail.
It is now this simple: If we weren’t threatened by the situation in Iraq before our invasion: we certainly are now.
But given this state of affairs, and the dire events in London…we see it made all the more clear that the time is now, more than ever, for the great nations of the world, and responsible citizens everywhere, to stand together in the face of the threat of terror. It is not too late to resolve the “looking glass” that George Bush has made of Iraq and face terror the way we should have from the very beginning: directly in the eye.
For starters, in regards to Iraq, we need to break the looking glass, we need to break the equation that Bush has made between Iraq and 9/11 and get on with the real business of responding to the events of that infamous day and al Qaeda like we should have in the first place.
News flash: Bright eyes to maintain political nuetrality came out with a brand new song “When a president gets his knob bobbed”
bleh
MOH–
Ye of low expectations!
I suppose I could immediately fall to your low level and call you something like a low-down, useless piece of crap cocksucker….which would be highly accurate, yet more in the shitbox category. So I refuse to call you names this time MOH..even though no one would deny what a stupid fucking asshole you are.
Thanks for holding back, Mr. Cynical!
In a very sad announcemnet today:
I would remind everyone on this board the type of people we are currently at war with. So when you start bleating about the “torture chambers” of Gitmo or how some poor detainee had his cookies and Milk spilled on his Koran, and how evil America is, this is in fact the alternative.
In my opinion, we need to purge the world of Islamic Fundamentilists and if this means declaring all out war on Islam, that may become an unfurtunate element in this war.
KABUL, Afghanistan – A purported Taliban spokesman said Saturday that the group has killed a missing American commando, but he offered no proof and the U.S. military said it was still searching for the Navy SEAL.
The commando is the last of a four-member elite commando team missing since June 28 in Kunar, near the Pakistani border. One of the men was rescued and the other two were found dead.
“This morning in Shagal district in Kunar province, the Taliban killed the American soldier and cut his head off,” Mullah Latif Hakimi, the purported spokesman, told The Associated Press in a telephone call. “We left the body on a mountainside in this area so Afghan or U.S. soldiers there can find it.”
Hakimi repeatedly has said the rebels were holding the commando. But information from him in the past has frequently proven exaggerated or untrue, and his exact tie to the Taliban leadership cannot be independently verified.
U.S. military spokesman Lt. Col. Jerry O’Hara, however, said “the search for the commando continued.
“The only proof we have is that he is missing,” he said. “We will run down these reports to see if anything thing pans out.”
Thanks for that bit of wisdom, ppr. You’ve obviously put forward the final solution to our troubles. Perhaps the nation and the Cause of Christ would be better served if you forwarded your suggestion to Cheney and Rummy so they could issue some no-bid contracts to their friends at Halliburton in order to get those needed camps and ovens constructed.
Mr Cynical: Although I hate you (NO Offense) sometimes you say extremely funny things. I would like to put in a request for the word ,”cornhole”. I think the effect would be dramatic and hilarious in the hands of a pro like yourself.
Rooselk,
No problem, glad I could help.
One this is for certain, some quiet time to sit down with Al Qaeda and the Taliban should solve all our problems.
MOH @ 2,
Pssst…. Al Qaeda IS in Iraq
prr @ 6
“In my opinion, we need to purge the world of Islamic Fundamentilists and if this means declaring all out war on Islam, that may become an unfurtunate element in this war.”
Really? This is akin to calling for a war on “fundamentalist Christianity.” Even though there are Christian terrorists in the world, would it be fair for a nation to target all fundamentalist Christians because of this handful of crazy or brainwashed extremists?
There are something like a billion people in the world who follow Islam. Are you proposing wiping out 20% of the world’s population (this would make Hitler look like an amateur)? And, you propose to kill off as many as 10 million Americans because of the religion they choose (how is this different from what the Nazi’s did)?
prr, on the face of this, your statements could not be more anti-American. They fly in the face of the most fundamental principles expressed in the Declaration of Independence and embodied in the Constitution.
If somebody made this statement to me and I knew nothing about them, I would question their patriotism and accuse them of turned their back on America.
But, prr, I will not question your patriotism. What little I know about you is enough to understand that you deeply believe in America, and that you are a patriot.
Thus, I am trying to reconcile your anti-American rhetoric with your patriotism. I can only come to the conclusion that you have become so afraid of death that you are willing to give up your liberties and the liberty of other Americans for the perception of safety.
I have no doubt that you remember the sacrifice of people in acquiring and preserving our liberties. Yet, I cannot help but feel that you have lost the “big picture” message of their sacrifice: that freedom and liberty is hazardous to preserve, but well worth preserving for all of America. If we are to honor the sacrifices of our freedom fighters of the past and present, and preserve the liberties of all Americans, it requires us to deeply examine our American values; It will require our willingness to fight and take risk to preserve those values.
Suppression of religious freedoms is not an American value. Genocide isn’t an American value. Security at the cost of liberty is not an American value.
This issue is not right-wing versus left-wing. It is about American values versus anti-American values that are strikingly similar to the raciest “values” of the Nazis leading up to WWII.
Prr, when the terrorist are able to attack Americans in our own cities again, I hope you will join me in fighting against terrorists, rather than becoming a lynch mob and oppressing millions of innocent Americans whose only “crime” is exercising their Constitutional right to worship as they choose.
When terrorist attacks come to our cities again, our Constitution will come under full blown assault from cowards willing to give up their liberties, and especially the liberties of other Americans, for a perception of security. Doing so spits in the face of those who died to preserve our liberties. Prr, I sincerely hope you are not among those cowards.
Al-Queeda is in Saudi Arabia. If any government needs to be dismantled it is that of the Saudi Arabians. We need
to occupy Saudi Arabia and pressure that country’s ruling class. If the Saudi Royal family were the prisoners being held at Gitmo, we would have the right people.
If any relative of mine is ever killed by a Saudi Arabian terrorist, I would find out who some of their family members are in this country(look to the universities)and take tenfold revenge upon them. That is how to defeat terrorists.
DJ @ 12
To Quote Jihad al-Khazen, an op-ed columnist for the London-based pan-Arab Al-Hayat newspaper, wrote: “Such criminal terror acts prove that no measure is enough to fight terrorism.
“Actions that governments take to fight terrorism are totally justified because protecting life is a lot more important than protecting civil liberties.”
At what point does one stop saying a politically correct statement such as, there are plenty of law abiding Muslims and recognize that to date, every terrorist attack has been Muslim based?
Dr Quest @ 13,
You may want to take a broader look at this problem.
My previous comment reagrding Iraq and Al Qaeda is not meant to limit Al Qaeda to Iraq.
Al Qaeda has become a World wide organization that has terrorist cells everywhere. Count on it, If there are cells found in Lackawanna NY, there are cells in Medina, Bellevue & Seattle as well.
America is Admittedly a Godless country without pride in itself (seperation of church and state, freedom to burn our own flag), whereas our enemy is not. There belief in rewards after deatj as opposed to a vlue for life cause real concern for us.
There are no negotiations or peace talk that will get us out of this, we are in a battle for our lives.
The sooner we all recognize this, the better.
prr @ 14
“At what point does one stop saying a politically correct statement such as, there are plenty of law abiding Muslims and recognize that to date, every terrorist attack has been Muslim based?”
Perhaps you are under the perception that the terrorists are attacking America as a way to spread their religion?????? If so, you are an idiot. The people who promote this war are insane extremists who have political aims. They abuse Islam to further these political goals.
There have been plenty of Christian terrorists (and their still are) who have abused Christianity as a pretext for killing and destruction. Is it reasonable to kill off all Christians for their actions? How about just the fundamentalist Christians?
It all comes back to the Saudis. That is the source of the infection. The only way to kill the infection is to deal with the source.
DJ,
I really don’t care what there goals are or what tey are or are not trying to spread.
The simple truth is that they are attacking innocent civilian targets and need to die.
Dr Quest @ 17,
Aghain, not limiting to just the Saudi’s, but yes, I see your point
dj–
Your weak attempt to tie together these Islamic Fundamentalist TERRORISTS who are a known entity whith some magically, mystical Christian Terrorist Group that is so secret YOU don’t even know who they are (although you seem convinced they exist…even though you can’t identify them) is pathetic. You can do better than that…except I reckon some neighbor or relative must have CORNHOLED you at a very young age….hence your delusional episodes such as this.
In Iowa, CORNHOLE means something related to harvesting a crop.
However in the LEFTIST PINHEAD “anal canal of the Universe” known as Seattle, CORNHOLING means something totally different and has sadly become a big part of all your lives there. And once the Gas Tax increase is repealed, I expect the CORNHOLING to increase at an alarming epidemic rate as all you rats scurry around your little rat maze BUMPER-TO-BUMPER in a state of perpetual CORNHOLING!
How’s that Dr. Quest?
“- wrong about Iraq”
Wrong that Saddam was an oppressive leader that shouldnt be a leader?
“- wrong about terror”
Took down Afganistan did we not?
“- wrong about what makes us safe”
Seen a US attack lately?
“- and they are wrong about what makes us strong”
I think they pretty much have that figured out as well.
Wake up and smell the coffee dude.
Mount Olympus Hiker@1
Hey genius, I suppose you recommend we imediatly pull out of Iraq.
Chuck–
MOH NEVER has a viable solution….only endless criticism dontchaknow! I think MOH was CORNHOLED in his youth clouding his reasoning gland.
I-912 makes State history today! Over 420,000 plus signatures in a mere thirty days. What does that tell you and lil Crissy and Co.? That the People are pissed off over their bullshit end-run around good ole I-601. That, and all the I-912 backers mostly think all this traffic money problem for the 520 and Alaskan Way Viaduct is simply King County’s fucking problem. I agree; set up some godamn toll booths and let them pay for it. Either way, agree or disagree with I-912, one should take a step back and realize that the voters will not stand for arrogant and selfish lawmakers and our “Governor” not heeding the will of the People. Go 912, go! I-912 is sending Crissy and Olympia a message they won’t soon forget! Thanks.
Comment on 2
9/11 is the best thing that ever happened to George W. Bush and the GOP. Without 9/11, Bush would have been a nondescript one-term president. The GOPers have shamelessly wrapped themselves in the flag while leading one of the most inept and corrupt administrations in our country’s modern history. What the hell is wrong with the voters? Or maybe these guys WEREN’T elected but rigged the voting machines? Can this many people really be this stupid? Oh well. At least we can take comfort in the knowledge that history probably won’t be kind to this president. Our great-grandchildren will understand he is a charlatan.
MOH-
Don’t let these trolls (creeps) get inside your head. I am a dedicated kossack myself…I read the post by my great friend prr. Some peeople just can’t get it through their heads that even if it was a good idea to do all the batshit insane things they say they want to do; we just can’t because of the way their fearless leaders have screwed things up.
We have no extra troops, we haven’t adequate armament, we haven’t adequate border protection. And the Cheney administration has raped and pillaged the treasury to such an extent that the US can’t afford to ramp up arms production and troop procurement and training to a level that would enable the country to fight another front on the fucked-up chimpy war on terror. Right now, folks, we’re screwed. Rumsfeld misused the army that Clinton built and ignored the advice of for real military guys who said that what they were trying to do with what they had wasn’t going to work. And guess what…CHUCK…IT’S NOT WORKING!
So my progressive bretheren…as we descend into the new “Dark Ages” let’s keep fighting the good fight.
Yeah, Mark1…there are 420,000 stupid shortsighted morons like you. Big surprise.
Fuck you Cynical…you pompous jerk.
Reply to 24
I have a better idea than toll boths. Just spend King County’s gas tax money in King County. Currently, KC exports $125 million a year of gas tax revenue to other counties. The state should let KC use that money to fix AWV and 520, and let the freeloaders in the rest of the state who have been subsidized by Seattle motorists pay for their own fucking roads or do without.
prr @ 14
We can always count on you to say something racist. What would you say to a law abiding Muslim family that is attacked by mindless haters because of what a few terrorists did?
prr @ 15
“America is Admittedly a Godless country without pride in itself (seperation of church and state, freedom to burn our own flag)”
We can also count on you to make totally asinine (and false) comments like the above. Most Americans are religious. Separation of church and state is not anti-religion, but profoundly pro-religion — it protects religion from state interference (and vice-versa). Allowing our citizens the freedom to burn our national flag in protest is a sign of strength, not weakness.
Get your head out of your ass, prr.
Rabbit @ 28,
What a well thought out plan.
Excellent input.
Is that the drugs talking?
Rabbit,
BTW, last week I was rooting for the infection.
Yet more “insightful” “intelligent” and lucid, sane commentary from rujax206. If anybody with a functioning brain wants to know whats wrong with the left and the democratic party in general, need not look any further he and donnageddons continous idiotic, myopic and limited verbal expression. yes i know for you that use of words four letters and above is difficult for you, but it is my guess, that is a result of continous poor personal choices resulting you in the undeniable facts that you both are CERTIFIED LUNATICS!
Have a nice day.
Hey RR, prr can’t get his head out of his ass. It’s permanent. It’s a birth defect. He deserves our pity, not our contempt. Poor little man.
okay DJ…christian terrorists? where? where?
back this up…..i would really love to see you do that.
Rabbit@25
If you want to talk of rigged voting look at your own governor…with the 4th lowest numbers of ANY governor in the US
NEWS FLASH! SOUND POLITICS AGREES WITH ACLU!
An item on (u)SP by Marsha Richards says,
“The American Civil Liberties Union is going after the Pierce County Council for its new ordinance restricting free speech in public meetings.”
Richards responds to a letter by ACLU attorney Aaron Caplan criticizing the ordinance, “Well said!”
Richards points out the ordinance was passed by a 4-0 vote, with three Democrats absent, and all 3 Republicans on the Council plus 1 Democrat voting for the ordinance. (Just what we expect from Repubs, but what the hell was that Democrat smoking?)
When even (u)SP thinks the ACLU is good for something, it must mean the ACLU is good for something!
Thanks IDGAF,
Screw you too.
Hey Guys-
Look at this! The young righties believe in this war so much they are making like their “chickenhawk” leaders.
From the Las Vegas Sun about a Young republican Convention:
http://www.lasvegassun.com/sun.....21050.html
rujax206…than you for yet another non-enlightening post. all it points out is that, once again, the democrats whole claim to fame is trying to stop other people from exercising their freedom of speech.
Heh, heh.
DJ…peepless in seattle….where is the proof to back up your idiotic claim of christian terrorists?
“When even (u)SP thinks the ACLU is good for something, it must mean the ACLU is good for something!”
They are the worst organization, they have truly done more harm than good. I will however put that aside and support them on this recent event, but I am guessing the lightening bolt of good causes won’t strike twice.
dj is busy endlessly google searching for some obscure example of “Christian Terrorists”. Once dj dredges something up, it ought to be shallow. We are waiting dj.
rujax206 @ 27–
My oh my aren’t you testy. I do appreciate the brevity of your comment however. I suspect you too rujax206 have been a victim of CORNHOLING. I also think that the Seattle traffic jams have taken their toll on you too. You appear to be quite MAD sir! Perhaps while stuck in Seattle traffic jams, you might consider turning on KVI-570 from 6-9AM (Kirby Wilbur) and 3-6PM(John Carlson). A few weeks of Kirby & John in your frail LEFTIST PINHEADED condition will certainly result in your commitment to the LOONEY-BIN. How are you going to stop I-912 rujax206?? Why don’t you and the other LEFTIST PINHEAD stupids get together for a scheming session. Perhaps an hour or three of circle-jerking, group validation and CORNHOLING will uncloud your fuzzy visioning.
The issues are: the Iraq War and repealing the gas tax increase.
Concluding that the primary reason for the Iraq war is securing the region’s petroleum, almost half of which is distilled into gasoline, the anti-gas tax camp must be pro-war. In theory, a gas tax will reduce demand for gas and the necessity for oil wars.
!! SUPPORT OUR CANON FODDER !!
!! DIE FOR OIL !!
!! LIVE TO DRIVE !!
That said, I’m supporting the gas tax repeal because of rife incompetence and corruption within ALL transportation planning agencies. They all have their heads up their asses.
Reply to 39
I didn’t see anything in that article about interfering with the Young Republicans’ freedom of speech. On the other hand, I did see them quoted as saying their convention was on “private property” and no protesters would get near them. That sounds like the YRs interfering with the protesters’ freedom of speech. Say, aren’t the Young Republicans the outfit that got in hot water for predatory fund raising tactics aimed at senior citizens? If they’re America’s future, America doesn’t have much of a future, methinks.
Roger Rabbit–
Whatever “infection” you claim to have had is obviously interferring with your abilility to discern what is important and what is relevant. You would prefer America to be LEFTIST PINHEADS ONLY. Young pretend-Hippies running around destroying others property, no desire for “real” jobs, only guv’mint handouts like you had as a 30-year DSHS lawyer suing and ruining families in the name of BIG SISTER. You are a fine one to express concerns about “freedoms” you low-life, CORNHOLING SOB!
roger…what i was referring to was the counter protest that the other group wanted to hold. counter protest is no more than code for “we are going to make it impossible for you to exercise your right to freedom of speech” and i’m pretty sure you know that.
gads…when will all this childish crap stop?
Thanks for the CORNHOLE comments, Mr Cynical! They’re almost as funny as Gore Vidal’s use of the word in his book on the American Revolution. Just think, Cynical, you’re almost as good a cornholer as Gore Vidal!
rujax206@post 27: Big words there for a big man. Lemme guess; you live in King County, which seems to think the world
revolves around them? No Suprise there. Pay for your own fucking road problem you selfish prick. Either way, the people have spoken-420,000 plus strong. Go to California if ya don’t like it. Bye.
Markl–
That’s tellin’ the bastards!
The mere idea these LEFTIST PINHEADS would even “dream” the rest of us would pay for the beautification of the Seattle Waterfront via the “bottomless moneypit” called the Alaskan Way Viaduct product shows how arrogant they are in Seattle….and how much they underestimate WE THE PEOPLE!
mark1….no no no….don’t say THAT!LOL. what have the nice people in california ever done to you? tell him to move back to new jersey where he belongs. sheesh….
and isn’t it funny that the “we want every vote to count-ers” are the ones that are upset that this gas tax will be put to a vote? it’s not like the signatures just repealed it….it’s just so the taxpayers can VOTE on it….and here all these nimrods are acting like the world is coming to an end.
i guess in reality they think all of us are much too stupid to decide these things. closet elitists alert.LOL
Hey Donks!!!!! Thats 420,000 signatures with out a recount!!! You cant count your way out of this one you donk pricks!!!!
Reply to 48
Ghost, I’m not convinced the situation was as you portray it. I certainly didn’t get that from reading the article. What we Democrats have learned in the last couple years is that Republicans are cowards who refuse to answer hard questions or face critics. What about the 3 women who got tickets from their congressman to attend a Bush “town hall” meeting on Social Security, and were bodily tracked out by private security guards employed by the GOP who falsely told the women they were Secret Service agents, simply because they came to the event in a car with an anti-war bumper sticker on it? This was no accident, the Bush “town halls” are staged propaganda events, and nobody gets in unless they’re trustworthy cheerleaders for the president. The gutless wonder who calls himself the leader of the free world doesn’t have the guts to face his own people, so why should we expect the Young Republicans to be any different? I think the point here is that Republicans are so thin-skinned they can’t take a “boo” from the audience or someone questioning their lies and bullshit.
Mr. Cynical, one question for you: Do you have any objection to King County keeping the $125 million a year in gas taxes that it currently exports to other counties? Yes or no.
Reply to 47
Takes a parasite to know one, Cynical. OK, so I fathered 7,185 bunnies running loose in Green Lake Park, but I never worked for BIAW cranking the handle that turns L & I taxes for injured workers into Rossi slush funds.
Furthermore what kind of shithead kicks a cute, fluffy, little bunny when he’s down?
RR@57–
Compassionate Conservatism is for PUSSY’s!!!
I have no objection to KingCo keeping their $125 million is Gas Tax money you claim they export IF AND ONLY IF the Growth Management Act is repealed first to allow rural counties the opportunity to build their own tax base without being completely hamstrung so the LEFTIST PINHEADS will have vast open space to gaze longly at as they drive thru the rest of the State in their BMW’s drinking latte’s and eating Brie Cheese.
Basically, I’m saying if you give the rest of the state an opportunity to regulate themselves with Seattle LEFTIST PINHEAD intervention, then it’s a deal. Unfair to tie a little County in knots allowing them to Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anything (acronym is BANANA people) without subsidizing them.
RR is kind of like tying your hands behind your back and telling you to jerk-off. Since you are the King of Jerkoffs, I’m sure you can understand the difficulty of that.
Roger Rabbit@55
“Mr. Cynical, one question for you: Do you have any objection to King County keeping the $125 million a year in gas taxes that it currently exports to other counties? Yes or no.”>>>
Vote King county a seperate state and keep all your friggin taxes!
Dont let the door hit you in the ass!
CORNHOLE!!!
I’m amazed this word has lingered all day and nobody has given Zappa the nod.
Dr. E@60
How intelectual…bet YOUR mom is proud!
roger…….if that is what happened and there wasn’t a report that they were going to cause trouble…i agree with you, it shouldn’t have happened. but…come on…we all know why they were there. i was at the orange rally and watching the paid union thugs scream obscenities at these four little nuns was enough to turn your stomach. you can say whatever you want about the GOP but last time i checked their MO was not to pay people to protest. good grief.
and have all of you forgotton when clinton had a woman taken down to the ground and into custody because as he drove by the crowd she screamed “you suck”????
okay she was rude [and innaccurate…it was OTHER people he had sucking] but into ss custody?
i have been at many many protests in my life including ones for cesar chavez where your[dem] new heroes the union thugs beat the hell out of everyone…….and people are so lazy now that they don’t even bother to pretend to think for themselves anymore…they get “talking points” from moveon and others.
we all know what those women were there to do…they had probably told everyone. but would i have done that to them? no. i would have waited until they pulled something and then nail them.
sometimes you have to enforce civility…especially in today’s overly entitled and theatrical world.
i have asked alot of democratic protestors at protests what they hope to accomplish and i can count on one hand the number of people that actually KNEW why they were there.
for most of them it is nothing more than an attention grabbing social event. why do you think seattle is such a joke?
Prr @ 18
”I really don’t care what there goals are or what tey are or are not trying to spread. The simple truth is that they are attacking innocent civilian targets and need to die.”
You ignorant fuck, only Nazi’s wipe out a religious group because there are a very small handful of bad asses how happen to practice the same religion. Killing Muslims, or even fundamentalist Muslims, because the government is too fucking ignorant and lazy to learn how to find the small percentage of bad ones is genocide, and constitutes a crime against humanity.
It is fucked up assholes like you who threaten America more than any terrorist.
Cynical @ 20,
”Your weak attempt to tie together these Islamic Fundamentalist TERRORISTS who are a known entity whith some magically, Christian Terrorist Group [blah, blah, blah].
Read my message again, you ignorant dolt. I didn’t “tie together” Islamic terrorists and Christian terrorists. I was asking whether the existence of Christian terrorists justifies killing off all Christians, IN THE SAME WAY (i.e. analogously to how) you Nazi fuckers suggest killing off people who follow Islam.
What the fuck is happening here, terrorists attack London and the right wingers overdose on stupid pills?
Oh. . . Cynical, you aren’t seriously doubting there are Christian terrorists, are you? Ever hear of Timothy Mcveigh and Terry Nichols, Eric Rudolph (Atlanta Olympic bomber and abortion clinic bomber), Randall Terry (Operation Rescue)—these folks are part of the so-called “Christian Identity” movement that has on the order of 50,000 adherents in the U.S. There is partial (but only partial) overlap between Christian Identity and various American Nazi groups, Aryan Nations, KKK, and a myriad of people who bomb abortion clinic and kill doctors, drag people behind pick-up truck or hand them for being gay, black, Asian, Native American, too effeminate, long-haired, too liberal, too conservative, non-Christian, or the wrong brand of Christian.
What cave have you been wacking off in for the last 30 years?
RR – I thought on another thread the BIAW taxes was debunked. So why do you repeat it again, to try and make it true by repeating it over as infinitum? Also, I haven’t heard much from the “normal” Muslim community in condemnations. But then again, I’m one of those neo-cons!!!
Roger Rabbit @ 30
Good health to you!
“We can always count on you to say something racist. What would you say to a law abiding Muslim family that is attacked by mindless haters because of what a few terrorists did?”
Indeed. In fact, it sounds like prr is poised to become the enemy. It seems as though he is itching to become a Christian Terrorist and kill off innocent Muslims. That’s what happens to supid extremists—the become the enemy they think they are fighting.
DJ: I will concede abortion doctor killers could be classified that way. I didn’t think Tim McVeigh and Terry Nichols are classified as “Christian” terrotists. Please provide the links for proof. Then again, what about ELF people who attack mink farms and the UW, and destroy farm equipment and SUVs? They are Democrats and what are they called? Friends of Peace?
christmasghost @ 35
“okay DJ…christian terrorists? where? where?
back this up…..i would really love to see you do that.
I guess that makes you an ignore dolt just like Cynical. I gave a list of domestic Christian Terrorists (not to mention incipient terrorists like prr).
Here are a few widely recognized acts of Christian terrorism: Christian Serbs killing Muslims in Kosovo and Bosnia, Christian Croats killing Muslims in Croatia and Bosnia, Irish Unionists (Ulster Freedom Fighters, Orange Volunteers and a number of other Ulster groups), various extremist groups of the Irish Republican Army. In some respects you can include the Euzkadi Ta Askatasuna (ETA) (Basque separatists) can be considered a Christian terrorist group.
Since you ignorant fuckers get your news from Fox News, I wouldn’t expect you to know about the terrorist groups in Asia or Africa. (In fairness, Christian terrorist groups rarely make NPR news).
I lived in an Asian Muslim country for a bit over a year in the early 1990s, so I have learned a bit about some of the active Christian terrorist groups through the media there. In many cases, of course, the groups are separatists, as well, but the common thread between Christian terrorist groups and Muslim terrorist groups is that they both abuse religion to pursue non-religious (or marginally religious) aims. The other common thread is that it is only a tiny minority of practitioners of the religion that are terrorists.
The group that I heard the most about is called the National Liberation Front of Tripura. A google news search reveals that they are currently very active—they just killed another Indian politician and kidnapped some people). When you live in Asia (or at least where I lived), you hear news reports on these groups on a regular basis. A couple of other groups include the Nagaland Rebels (I understand that N. India has many other smaller or more loosely organized groups as well) and the Maluku Christian Separatists in Indonesia.
The point I was making in an earlier post can be rephrased more specifically: given that, for example, India is a victim of Christian terrorist groups that attack Hindu, Buddhist and Muslim peoples, is it reasonable for India and some Hindu, Buddhist, and Muslim allies to wage a war against Christianity and justify it as a means to control terrorism? If not, how can we justify killing off a religion to control terrorism in the West?
Christmasghost @ 42 said,
”DJ…peepless in seattle….where is the proof to back up your idiotic claim of christian terrorists?”
and Cynical @ 44 said,
”dj is busy endlessly google searching for some obscure example of “Christian Terrorists”. Once dj dredges something up, it ought to be shallow. We are waiting dj.”
Listen, you stooped fuckers, I get $200/hour for a consulting fee. I am sure Goldy will act as a go-between for a 20% cut—contact him with a credit card number and he will get you my cell phone number for emergency consulting.
Otherwise, you will just have to wait until I am home and in the mood for bloging. Sorry to keep you dipshits drooling over your keyboards waiting for an answer, but it was a beautiful day in my neck of the woods (which does not happen to be Seattle, christmasghost), and I have a busy day outside of the house.
I answered with a number of such groups. There are many more, but, indeed I would have to google for them. So, Cynical, here is as brief list compiled from about 5 minutes of googling: Methodist militants in Fiji (overthrew the government in 1987). There seem to be numerous of Christian Flangist groups like the Lebonese Maronite Christians, who conducted the 1982 Sabra and Shatila Massicre, killing Palestinian civilians; and Christian Terrorists in Egypt who have been active in kidnapping children.
Since history is rich with religion B killing religion A and vice versa (fill in A and B from any major world religion), it is hardly surprising that there will be oppressors unjustly killing the weaker group and the weaker group fighting the stronger group. Right now in the world we have all brands of terrorists including those from indigenous religions, Buddists, Hindus, Muslims, Christians. Wiping out any one religion because there are a handful of terrorists goes against the principles of almost all religions, the Constitution of the U.S., and general humanitarian principles.
Puddy @ 67
“I didn’t think Tim McVeigh and Terry Nichols are classified as “Christian” terrotists. Please provide the links for proof.”
You are entitled to your opinion, even if I think you are wrong. They were Christians who terrorized (the comparison is no different form arguments used when Muslims kill with no religious intent). Please try to get to the big picture of my point—I am not going to quibble about individual cases.
“Then again, what about ELF people who attack mink farms and the UW, and destroy farm equipment and SUVs?”
Absolutely! Thanks for pointing that out.
“They are Democrats and what are they called? Friends of Peace?”
I am sure many of them are Democrats. But, if so, would that justfiy slaughtering all Democrats because there is a handful of extremists? Is that what our American values would offer as the proper solution?
Puddybud @ 65
“I haven’t heard much from the “normal” Muslim community in condemnations. But then again, I’m one of those neo-cons!!!”
Then you haven’t been following the news. Try searching on google news.
dj@64
http://www.rotten.com/library/.....c-rudolph/
And although you will find a nut now and again that read his bible backwards and saw God, as a rule you dont find a group in a consentrated effort to cause havoc and death in the name of God as we have with the Al Quadia. The IRA didnt want religion, they wanted independance and the ability to have religous freedom (familiar?). N o as a rul I agree with Cyn, you dont find Christian terrorists.
prr@6: You said “In my opinion we need to purge the world of Islamic Fundamentalists.” Frankly, I think we need to purge the world of all fundamentalists, so called “christians” included.
Mr. Cynical @20: FYI: The KKK is a christian terrorist organization; The Church of the World Creator is a christian terrorist organization; The Aryan Brotherhood is a christian terrorist organization; all of these claim christian principles as validation for their fundamentalist, extremist, beliefs. There are many others. Generally speaking, US based christian terrorist organizations don’t engage in international terrrorism
– why? The short answer is that they are just too fucking stupid. Unlike the international terrorist groups, US terrorists are not particularly well-educated, well traveled or well-connected. In contrast, the international terrorist groups are well educated, are accustomed to international travel, speak at least two languages, and because they weren’t educated in their own countries, but mostly at western universities, they have many international contacts as well. International terrorists prefer conspicuous, international targets. They are not especially loyal to either their country of origin or their countrymen, but are quite “at home” in many places.
Marilyn
However, back to the main point: There are many domestic groups that claim christian principles as a basis and rationale for their violence and terror tactics and they can legitimately be refrred to as christian terrorist organizations, on the same basis that people refer to “islamic” terrorist groups. However, in my opinion, neither the christian terrorists or the islamic terrorists represent the best of those religions they pretend to espouse (which is why I won’t capitalize christian or islamic when used in connection with such evil). A religious affiliation shouldn’t be attached to those groups at all and I think the more accurate descriptions would be: domestic terrorist and international terrst.
when re are worthy of religious affiliation the more accurate terms would be: Domestic terrorist or international terrorist, when referring to either of this .
Everyone: Please disregard that final sentence – it is the result of hurried editing.
dj–
What is your definition of a “terrorist”?
It seems to me you are stretching the definition BEYOND the point of recognition to try and equate the actions of 9/11 and London with other incidents where so-called Christians were involved. It’s a stretch that doesn’t reach dj.
I’m sure your statistical and analytic skills are often worth $200/hr. You are a smart guy. Just not this time.
dj@68
Incedently, just because I am fighting a battle and I have a copy of the Bible in my knapsack, even if I said my prayers in the morn or evening, that doesnt make me a christian terrorist or warrior. You have to take into consideration WHY I do it. It seems that in your example of Afganistan, the Christians were under wholesale slaughter, that makes in self defence…
Marilyn@73
“Ben Klassen, a former Florida state legislator, formed the Church of the Creator in 1973 and attacked Christianity as “a tremendous weapon in the worldwide Jewish drive of race-mixing.”
By the 1990s, the group was known as the World Church of the Creator and had attracted neo-Nazis and white-supremacist members, including a man convicted in 1992 of the murder of Persian Gulf War veteran Harold Mansfield Jr., who was black.”>>>
Where do you get Christian out of this?
Chuck–
dj, in his desperation to be right and unwillingness to admit he made a gross overstatement…..decided to throw as much anti-Christian/Christians are terrorists crap as his Google search could uncover. Thank you for pointed out dj’s highly flawed bullshit examples. I’m sure he will continue to try and justify his position…after all, he is a bleeding heart LEFTIST (not a PINHEADED one like the rest of these assholes who post here) who will go out of his way to condemn America by minimizing and marginalizing the acts of the real terrorists (Islamic fundamentalists).
Chuck @ 72
“as a rule you dont find a group in a consentrated effort to cause havoc and death in the name of God as we have with the Al Quadia. The IRA didnt want religion, they wanted independance and the ability to have religous freedom (familiar?). “
Thank you. This is exactly what I am talking about. Most Christian terrorists are, at most, nominally about religious goals—most of what they do is about power and politics. Killing people to achieve such goals is antithetical to Christianity.
The same is true of so-called Islamic terrorists. They are not trying to convert the world to Islam—Islam spreads much faster through peaceful means. Killing people for such goals is antithetical to the principles of Islam. Rather, the terrorists (of whatever religion) have larger political goals. They prey upon people’s religious identity for recruitment and as a way to “claim” legitamacy. That is an abuse of whatever religion is involved, but it does not justify attacking the religion. (Alternatively, to be consistent, we should exterminate followers of all major religions, since all religions have had their abusers).
Of course I don’t agree with either of these extremes. American can do better than to become a terrorist nation as a means of fighting terrorists.
Chuck @ 76
“Incedently, just because I am fighting a battle and I have a copy of the Bible in my knapsack, even if I said my prayers in the morn or evening, that doesnt make me a christian terrorist or warrior. You have to take into consideration WHY I do it. It seems that in your example of Afganistan, the Christians were under wholesale slaughter, that makes in self defence… “
I didn’t mention Christian terrorists in Afganistan, did I?
If you are a Christian engaging in terrorists acts against X, then X will call you a Christian terrorist. The bible in your backpack will held up as proof that you are waging a Christian war.
Under the identical logic proposed by some extremists here, that would be reasonable justification for X to call for the elimination of Christianity.
dj@79
If memory serves the Islamic nuts want to “kill the infedels) I believe this is one of the goals of the Al Quidea (I know I blew the spelling)
Reply to 58
First of all, how in hell could I be the father of 7,185 cute fluffly little baby bunnies running around Green Lake Park if I jerked off? Obviously, to reproduce like that, a bunny has no sperm to spare! You are a fucking idiot.
What the hell does growth management have to do with gas taxes? NOTHING!!! You slipped in that deal-breaker because what you really want to do is continue siphoning from King County taxpayers while refusing to pay a penny for infrastructure in King County. Clever, but transparent. Just as I thought, you are a fucking freeloader!
Reply to 59
Works for me. We’ll keep our tax revenues and jobs, too. As for you rednecks living in trailer parks in suburban Roy, you can pay for your own schools and roads. Actually, if you’re any indication of the population of Roy, rural Pierce County doesn’t have any schools or if they do you were impervious to all attempts at teaching anyway, so the impact on you and your kind should be minimal.
Roger Rabbit–282–
The Growth Management Act has EVERYTHING to do with rural Counties ability to build self-sustaining economies and you know it.
Seattle impoverishes the rest of the state by trying to force the major tax base into their hands and wants to leave the rest of the state for their “playground”. It’s the Amsterdam model. All the workers and poor people live in the rat-maze. The rich people live in villa’s in the country. The LEFTIST PINHEADED ELITE are just like that. Over time, with using GMA as a weapon, they can force average folks into the rat maze….so they might be the country villa dweller’s.
GMA has everything to do with rural county’s building tax bases. It was a Seattle “wet-dream”. The cost of the LEFTIST PINHEAD “wet-dream” is subsidizing the rest of the state.
RR, why don’t YOU start an initiative that allows Seattle to keep all of it’s Gas Tax money??? Go ahead and do something rather sit on your ass and blather. Hey, I went out and got plenty of signatures for I-912. DO SOMETHING FOR A CHANGE! Stand up on WORK for your beliefs. Oh, I forgot, you are a career guv’mint low-life attorney. All you know how to do is blather.
Reply to 62
What the fuck are you ranting? There appears to be one straightforward question in your entire post and I’ll answer that one.
The women in question obtained tickets for the Bush “town hall” event from their GOP congressman. As I recall, the incident and event occurred in Colorado, although I might be wrong about that. The women went into the hall, were seated, and never created any kind of disturbance. What happened was that GOP operatives went through the parking lot and spotted a “No Blood for Oil” bumper sticker on their car. The women were then approached and ordered to leave, even though they did not have t-shirts, political buttons, signs, and had not said anything. The GOP operatives who approached them falsely stated they were Secret Service agents and told the women they were “under arrest” and they were roughly escorted out of the hall. Of course, they complained to the Secret Service afterward, which issued a statement saying the people who kicked them out of the town hall meeting were not Secret Service agents and that the Secret Service had no control over the GOP operatives who ran the event.
It is no secret that Bush’s Social Security “town halls,” like all of Bush’s public appearances, were staged political events in front of carefully vetted audiences. In addition, all questions from the audience had to be submitted in writing in advance, and only “softball” questions that make Bush look good were allowed to be asked in the meetings. These events are designed to produce cheers and applause for Bush’s talking points. The White House had no interest whatsoever in honestly discussing its Social Security proposal with citizens who had concerns about it, answering questions about the flaws in the proposal, or getting feedback from ordinary citizens who would be affected by the administration’s Social Security plan. These are propaganda events, pure and simple. The women were removed from the “meeting” because the GOP operatives inferred from the bumper sticker that they were not reliable cheerleaders and applauders for the president and his policies.
The dishonesty of Bush’s “town hall” meetings, which create a phony pretense of Bush going out into communities to hear the views of citizens, is manifest. The forcible removal of the 3 women from the Colorado “town hall” — they were not gate crashers, they had tickets, and said and did nothing when they got inside — simply added an element of thuggery to what was already a dishonest propaganda show.
The public was not deceived by Bush’s dog and pony road show. The more Bsh talked and the more “town hall” meetings he attended, the farther he and his Social Security scheme dropped in the polls. The “town hall” propaganda campaign was a fiasco, quietly died, Bush slinked back to the White House, and you don’t hear anything from him about Social Security anymore.
That doesn’t mean Bush has given up trying to wreck Social Security and encumber future generations with another $11 trillion of public debt. Bushco doesn’t operate that way — they never give up their nefarious objectives, they merely change tactics when something doesn’t work. Look for them to try to sneak this piece of shit through Congress in the middle of the night when they think the public isn’t watching.
Chuck @ 81
“If memory serves the Islamic nuts want to “kill the infedels) I believe this is one of the goals of the Al Quidea (I know I blew the spelling)”
Yes, Chuck, “kill the infidels” is nice rhetoric for recruitment. But, “kill the infidels” is not an Islamic principle.
In fact, what I hear coming from some people on this thread is “kill the Muslim infidels.” That is not a Christian principle, either. It sure as hell is not an American principle!
Reply to 67
Oh please Putty Brains — abortion doctors are “terrorists?” This happens to be a legal activity. On the other hand, it’s probably fair and accurate to characterize people who murder abortion doctors and burn down abortion clinics as “domestic terrorists,” because they are using violence to achieve political ends.
Puddy – if I misunderstood your post — if you are referring to abortion doctor killers as “terrorists” — then my apologies and we are in agreement.
Roger Rabbit@83
If you start the initiative drive I will support it!
Comment on 70
I have never seen anything to indicate that ELF and other violent extremists consider themselves “Democrats.” For all we know, these people don’t even vote. Obviously people who set fire to real estate developments or spike trees are not representative of responsible, science-based environmentalists. They are domestic terrorists in the same category as abortion doctor murders and the Oklahoma City bombers. They belong in jail; and if they get shot attempting to commit their criminal deeds, I won’t shed a tear.
Roger Rabbit @ 87
I was assuming that Putty was refering to people who kill abortion doctors when he said, “I will concede abortion doctor killers could be classified that way.”
dj@86
You are right it isnt an Islamic principle, it is the principle used by ORGANIZED extremist Islamic people that do shit like fly planes into buildings, bomb subways and so forth. I think you have to go all the way to the Spanish inquisition to find anything like a subway bombing, yet even there they were in the face instead of sneaking around like a bunch of cowards.
Reply to 75
Cynical, what would you call Oklahoma City — a terrorist act, or a crime? What would you call an abortion clinic bombing — a terrorist act, or a crime? What would you call the arson of the UW horticultural building — a terrorist act, or a crime?
The Ku Klux Klan clearly was a terrorist organization. They practiced terror, and they terrorized communities and black populations. They used many of the techniques of terrorism, including kidnappings, lynchings, bombings, and arson.
Aryan Nations may or may not be a terrorist organization. They talk about violence and have a violent attitude, but other than a little occasional thuggery they seem to be mostly bluster and hot air. They lost their Idaho compound as a result of a couple of members (apparently acting without the group’s authorization) beating up passersby, which I would call brainless hooliganism, not terrorism. A splinter group murdered a radio talk show host and robbed banks, and I think it’s fair to call The Order a terrorist group. But they had parted company with the Aryan Nations group, precisely because of their desire (and A.N.’s reluctance) to use violence to further their aims.
There are/were a number of other politically motivated extremist groups with either latent or overt violent tendencies that used perversions of Christian religion to attract and indoctrinate followers, including the Covenant, Sword, and Arm of the Lord (which spawned the Oklahoma City bombers) and various “posse comitatus” and “citizen militia” groups that may or may not qualify as “terrorist” organizations depending on their willingness and readiness to act out their violent fantasies. The FBI, in tracking these groups, considers them to be either potential or actual domestic terrorists.
By the way, white supremacist and neo-Nazi groups that use religion to justify their hatred of Jews and minorities call their pseudo-religion “Christian Identity.” The central doctrine of C.I. is that Jesus was a white guy (i.e., an Aryan) who was murdered by Jews. If you see or hear someone refer to “Christian Identity” you automatically know that it refers to the neo-Nazi, white supremacist, and/or skinhead subculture. There is no legitimate or mainstream group that subscribes to so-called “Christian Identity” beliefs. C.I. is nothing more than an artificially constructed ideology for the purpose of rationalizing hatred of Jews and minorities.
Chuck@77: I am referring to Church of the World Creator – words in exactly that order. They originated in Peoria Illinois, led by the “reverend” Matt Hale. Google the words in exactly that order. thier stated objective is “the survival, expansion and advancement of the white race”. By whatever means necessary.
Marilyn
Reply to 84
Growth management has NOTHING to do with gas tax revenues, the Alaska Way Viaduct, or replacing the 520 bridge.
The bottom line is that King County sends a lot of gas tax money to other counties, which have been only too happy to take King County taxpayers’ money, usually while bitching about King County and taxes in general. King County now has infrastructure needs that call for a substantial amount of spending, and the leeches who have been feeding off King County taxpayers for years are unwilling to ante up, as the 420,000 initiative signatures demonstrate.
I won’t be surprised if the initiative passes. In fact, I’ll be surprised if it doesn’t. How hard is it to persuade people to vote against a tax increase? Human nature is on the side of the initiative promoters. But assuming it does pass, where does that leave us?
You’re a damned fool if you think what happens in Seattle doesn’t affect you. Seattle is the linchpin of the state’s economy. AWV and 520 carry about 40% of Seattle’s commuter traffic. They also carry a significant amount of freight, both incoming and outbound, AWV more so than 520.
The state’s transportation policy planners have always looked at the state’s highway networks as a whole. Farm to market roads in Stevens County are as much a piece of the state’s economy as the Alaska Way Viaduct. That’s why urban taxpayers send their taxes to rural counties. To Balkanize our state’s transportation system would be both short sighted and destructive to the state’s economy. Yet that’s exactly what you advocate, and what the initiative will achieve.
If that’s the route you want to go — which I think is stupid and harmful to our state, including the part of the state you live in, whether you ever drive in Seattle or not — then it doesn’t take an initiative to redirect gas taxes collected in King County to projects in King County. That can be done in the Legislature when the transportation budget is written. King County has roughly 35% of the state’s voters, and legislative representation is apportioned accordingly. That’s not enough to pass a transportation bill, but it’s enough to block spending of King County gas tax revenues in other counties. King, Pierce, and Snohomish counties together have over 50% of the state’s population and the legislative representatives of those three counties, if they decide to work together, can pass anything they want in the Legislature and tell the other 35 counties to fuck themselves.
I don’t doubt for a second that people like you want to continue leeching off King County taxpayers. Freeloading is what you assholes are all about. I’m simply saying that if you don’t want to support a statewide transportation system, if you want to Balkanize our state’s roads and bridges, then it’s only fair that you no longer get any King County gas tax revenue if you live outside King County. If this initiative passes, I am certainly going to contact my state representatives and senator and argue that AWV and 520 should be funded from the gas taxes currently being exported from King County to other parts of the state, which of course requires cutting appropriations for road work in those areas by $125 million a year. Let the people in Stevens, Ferry, or Lewis counties scream all they want about potholes and dilapidated roads and bridges; if they want to fix them, give them the authority to enact a local option gas tax or MVET on top of the state gas tax and MVET. If they don’t want to pay those taxes, they can do without the road maintenance, construction, and repair and live with crummy roads. But in no instance should these fuckers be allowed to vote against critical transportation projects in King County and then take King County’s transportation money for their local projects.
chuck @ 92
“I think you have to go all the way to the Spanish inquisition to find anything like a subway bombing”
Why have you exempted, say, the second incarnation of the KKK in the 20th century. Or the many groups of the Christian Identity? How many Blacks, Jews and Republicans did they kill? Probably more than al Quada has ever killed (which is not to justifying killing by any of these groups!).
BTW: in 2000, the U.S. State Department published estimates of al Qaeda membership between 300-3,000 people. At its peak, the KKK bosted a membership of 4 million, and it still has a membership in the 10s of thousands.
“. . . yet even there they were in the face instead of sneaking around like a bunch of cowards.”
The so-called Christian terrorists in South Asia have no problems using bombs to make their points. Likewise, al Qaeda tactics are modeled after IRA “Christian terrorist” tactics.
The big difference between the al Qaeda attacks and attacks by other “religious” terrorist groups is that al Qaeda was financed by a personal fortune. The 9/11 attacks did not kill all that many people (terrorists and governments behaving like terrorists have killed millions of people—e.g. Russia against their Old Believers, Nazi killing Jews, Rwanda). What made the attacks “spectacular” was the amount of property damage caused, and the symbolism of the WTC. This clearly had a huge psychological impact on Americans (as was intended by al Qaeda). I suspect the British will be less phased by the London bombings because they have much more experience with this mode of terrorism (i.e. IRA bombings).
chuck @77: You’ve misunderstood what I said. I didn’t say I saw anything Christian in those groups. Quite the contrary. Read the entire post.. The Church of the World Creator purports to be a christian organization. They claim to be Christian. I wouldn’t call them that, but that is what they claim to be, that is how they identify themselves and that is the rationale they use for their activities. It is of course, a pervesion of Christianity. However, if the accepted use of religious appellations applies to one terrorist organization, it applies equally to others. They are, therefore, a “christian terrorist organization” in the same way that “islamic” is applied to “islamic terrorist organizations.” Personally, I restate my opinion that I believe relgious terminology should not be applied to any terrorist groups because those groups don’t represent those religions at all. I think the more descriptive terms are domestic terrorist or international terrorist. Marilyn
dj@97
You are taking a group like the KKK and saying that they killed more (doubtfull) than the 9/11 attack. That is not a fair comparison, as the same groupe was involved in the original bombing of the WTC, the lockerby 747, as well as the Cole and many other attacks and many more deaths. If you are going to only compare 9/11, then just take the most grusome most deadly attack by the KKK and compare that to the WTC attack, I think you will find the KKK pales by comparison. (no Im not defending the KKK either)
Chuck–@99
You are absolutely right as usual. dj is down to comparing apples and oranges….actually it’s more like comparing a tiny raison with a watermelon.
I just got back from Northern Idaho (Hayden Lake area). We have gone on a golf trip over there for 20 years. One of my buddies is black. He has NEVER been hassled even once. The general manager of the best golf course over there is BLACK and has been the manager for many years. Never hassled.
LEFTIST PINHEADS love to create boogie-men. Sure there are a few nuts in N. Idaho. The dozen or so poor, disgruntled white 20 year-olds with a 6th grade education and IQ of 80. How about the nuts in Seattle & Portland called ELF and ALF. These Enviromentalist Terrorist fuckers are LEFTIST PINHEADS with both money and education.
The Islamic Fundamentalist terrorists are a well-entrenched, broad-based group lead by highly educated and wealthy assholes from various Middle East countries. The KKK and Aryan Nation were lead by uneducated, poor idiots.
dj–keep trying. So far you are 0 for about 20!!
Reply to 65
We’ll talk about it when right wingers cease propagandizing the shit out of every issue under the sun. Until then, write your complaints here -> [ ].
P.S., better get used to it because I’m going to beat up BIAW until the end of time.
roger…hit a nerve, did i? that’s the only explanation i can come up with for your foul language laced rant. as i said…if what you said happened [and you can’t even remember what state it was in…so are you that sure?] then it was wrong. what part of that didn’t you get?
you and dj are really on the same page…the clueless one.
al qa’ida has called for the entire world to be purged of infidels. that’s all the rest of us, okay? you get that? do you know that hitler’s book is the number one best seller in turkey and other islamic countries? they are on the same page…..
have you ever read the koran? now…i know you haven’t because of what you have been saying.
now, i have lived a very interesting life…in many places. i have had the opportunity to meet many people including three “terrorists”. one from the IRA[and it ain’t about christianity baby..] one from the ETA [ditto…it’s about homeland ]and in 1979 2 out in the middle of the pacific that were french terrorists. they were starving and we gave them supplies without knowing who or what they were. when we got into papeete we saw their pictures plastered up everywhere. would i have still helped them if i knew? hell no.
the people in the serb conflict were not christian terrorists either. they just happened to be christian….versus muslim.saying that that was christian terrorism is like saying that when a dog bites your kid it’s because he has a tail. it’s an incidental.
i have lived in the middle east. hell…my sister was born in libya. you don’t know what the hell you are talking about here.
you want to call someone a nazi…just look at the next muslim you see….he is closer religion-wise than any republican but all of you are so sheltered and coddled you just don’t get it.
and trust me…they are banking on that.
chuck @ 99,
I don’t know how many people were terrorized by or killed by the KKK and other Christian Identity groups over the years. And I don’t know how many people have been killed in al Qaeda attacks (probably well under 10,000 from what I can tell).
But, al Qaeda had nothing whatsoever to do with Lockerbie. That was state-sponsored terrorism (Libya). Libya has never had any ties to al Qaeda. In fact, even though Libya is an Islamic nation, the brand of Islam is completely different—specifically, Libya is a moderate, not a fundamentalist, Islam state. Their terrorist support was aimed purely for political purposes, apparently by Qaddafi himself.
To some extent, al Qaeda and Libya have been at odds. In the late 1990s there was an al Qaeda-backed terrorist group that tired to assassinate Qaddafi, and Qaddafi put out an arrest warrant for bin Laden.
Your lumping together of al Qaeda and Libya-supported terrorism is a typical misunderstanding of so-called Islamic terrorists. The two are as different as (Christian) IRA terrorist and (Christian) KKK terrorists.
BTW: I mentioned the Taliban was one of the first governments to decry the attacks on 9/11. Well, you may recall that Qaddafi also expressed outrage at the attacks, and he called for all Muslim’s to provide charitable aid to the U.S.
DJ: And you know I debunked the Taliban saying they were against the 9/11 bombing because they knew it had fingerprints and forensic evidence leading to them. Duh! You keep bring it up though, because somewhere in your small intellectual prison it may be true!
Yes there is secular Muslim terrorist and islamofascist terrorists. But for many of us, Islamofascist terrorism is the most virulent type which started in 1972 at the Olympics.
Rujax, I answered you.
Pacman @ 104
“And you know I debunked the Taliban saying they were against the 9/11 bombing because they knew it had fingerprints and forensic evidence leading to them.”
You didn’t debunk squat, dipshit. I stated that Taliban was one of the first governments to public ally decry the 9/11 attacks. This is simply fact.
In another thread, I added the footnote that they had might have had ulterior motives for doing so. I don’t know about your “fingerprints and forensic evidence” theory, as the attacks were conducted by, and immediately attributed to, al Qaeda, not the Taliban. Rather, the Taliban, like everyone else, saw “the writing on the wall.” It was public knowledge that al Qaeda was based in Afghanistan. Most people only needed about 6 seconds to realize that the U.S. was going into Afghanistan.
I got a good idea…lets have a “troll booth” on HA. Either we’ll get rid of the trolls or fix the state’s tranportation problems (snap) win/win!!!
DJ: Are you just being stoopid today? Where was the Al Qaeda group located? So what they gave “phony “condolences” to us. They knew when Bush said “I can hear you! The rest of the world hears you, and the people who knocked these buildings down will hear all of us soon!”
While remembering the exact words GWB used here are some of your buddies again:
septembereleventh . org / newsarchive / 2004 – 01 – 04 – groundzero . php
Rujax206: You fix the transportation problems by building more roads. What is this monorail crap? Why is there a building over I-5 in the Seattle City Center? Oh, I forgot, Democrats trying again to control personal driving nature. I noticed up there that unless you ride the car pool lanes you move slowly. At least down here we move in the car pool lane. You drive the speed limit in the car pool lane, people get pissed at you. Up there you guys drive almost as slow as the other lanes. Why is that? The car pool lanes are there to fly and rub it in to single occupant car drivers.
PacMan–
That’s tellin’ ’em!!
These LEFTIST PINHEADS can complicate even the simplest of problems, can’t they. Building a Convention Center over I-5 and then bitching because there are more cars than pavement. The LEFTIST PINHEAD planners who are into chronic mind and action control just because THEY love to ride their bikes everywhere….have pissed away billions of dollars on planning, re-planning, re-re-planning and other assorted brainfarts and false starts.
Hey, I like that one.
LEFTIST PINHEADS—
The masters of false starts…and brainfarts!!!!!
pacman @ 107
“Where was the Al Qaeda group located?”
Check my previous post—there is a hint in there for you.
“So what they gave “phony “condolences” to us. “
You fucking idiot! That is the point I was making when I pointed out that they may have had ulterior motives. That still doen not nullify the fact as I have stated it (and as you apparently acknowledge). So, go take a smart pill or something, will ya?
DJ: Where did you first mention they had ulterior motives? I could be wrong but I remember others saying that the Taliban was identified as being the friends of Al Qaeda and that’s why they sent “phony” condolences. Then you mentioned the ulterior motives afterward. Now I could be wrong but I went back to July 7th. BTW, can you form a simple argument without swearing? Or do you get excited swearing at your enemies?