In olden days, a glimpse of stocking
Was looked on as something shocking.
But now, God knows….
Can’t Bring Yourself to Type the Word “Ass”?
Eager to share our brilliant political commentary and blunt media criticism, but too genteel to link to horsesass.org? Well, good news, ladies: we also answer to HASeattle.com, because, you know, whatever. You're welcome!
… Anything goes!
Let the name calling begin!
You know, it is amazing how much time posers to this blog spend coming up with unique and stupid ways of insulting each other. How does a political discussion progress with quotes like, “Just like the Republicans that post on this blog kick your sorry asses all over the place. They make you wet yourself and watch you run home crying to mommy. It has nothing to do with ethics, it’s a cry for help. Dems are moraly bankrupt.” Or, “For a liberal, you’re typically predictable in your defense of an immature, narcissic mysogynist “married” to a one woman communist government shrew.” Come to think of it, most of the vitriol seems to come from the conservative side of the fence; maybe it just makes them feel better to put others down. I think the liberals should dive into the muck and bitch-slap a few conservatives, what do you say?
Well You asked for it: Let’s start with Bagdad Bob. Yeh ole Bagdad Bob hasn’t apparently read yesterday’s NY Times article on the mass graves of Saddam’s victims (over 1300 victims, and many are yet unfound). He is a piece of work to have aligned himself with this murderer!
For your own reading, here is the article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04.....;position=
April 15, 2005
Iraqis Find Graves Thought to Hold Hussein’s Victims
By ROBERT F. WORTH
AGHDAD, Iraq, April 14 – Investigators have discovered several mass graves in southern Iraq that are believed to contain the bodies of people killed by Saddam Hussein’s government, including one estimated to hold 5,000 bodies, Iraqi officials say.
The graves, discovered over the past three months, have not yet been dug up because of the risks posed by the continuing insurgency and the lack of qualified forensic workers, said Bakhtiar Amin, Iraq’s interim human rights minister. But initial excavations have substantiated the accounts of witnesses to a number of massacres. If the estimated body counts prove correct, the new graves would be among the largest in the grim tally of mass killings that have gradually come to light since the fall of Mr. Hussein’s government two years ago. At least 290 grave sites containing the remains of some 300,000 people have been found since the American invasion two years ago, Iraqi officials say.
Forensic evidence from some graves will feature prominently in the trials of Mr. Hussein and the leaders of his government. The trials are to start this spring.
One of the graves, near Basra, in the south, appears to contain about 5,000 bodies of Iraqi soldiers who joined a failed uprising against Mr. Hussein’s government after the 1991 Persian Gulf war. Another, near Samawa, is believed to contain the bodies of 2,000 members of the Kurdish clad led by Massoud Barzani.
As many as 8,000 men and boys from the clan disappeared in 1983 after being rounded up in northern Iraq by security forces at the command of Ali Hassan al-Majid, widely known as Chemical Ali. It remains unclear, however, how the victims ended up in the south.
Investigators have also discovered the remains of 58 Kuwaitis spread across several sites, including what appears to be a family of two adults and five children who were crushed by a tank, Mr. Amin said. At least 605 Kuwaitis disappeared at the time of the first gulf war, and before the latest graves were discovered, fewer than 200 had been accounted for, he added.
A smaller site was discovered near Nasiriya earlier this week. Arabic satellite television showed images of residents digging up remains there.
Mr. Amin declined to give the exact locations of the graves, saying it could endanger witnesses to the massacres and anyone working at the sites.
One obstacle to exhuming bodies has been an absence of DNA labs and forensic anthropologists in Iraq, Mr. Amin said.
In the aftermath of Mr. Hussein’s fall, thousands of Iraqis overran mass grave sites, digging for their relatives’ remains with backhoes, shovels, even their bare hands. A number of sites were looted, making identification of victims difficult, said Hanny Megally, Middle East director for the International Center for Transitional Justice.
The American occupation authority, after some initial hesitation, began classifying grave sites, and international teams began traveling to the sites in 2003 to conduct assessments or exhumations. But toward the end of 2004, rising violence led nearly all the teams to abandon their work.
Only one site has been fully examined, a grave of Kurdish victims in northern Iraq, Mr. Megally said. That work was overseen by the Regime Crimes Liaison Office, which is gathering evidence for the trials of Mr. Hussein and his deputies.
The interim Iraqi government, working with the United Nations, has drawn up plans for a National Center for Missing and Disappeared Persons that would have authority over all aspects of the process, from exhumations to providing assistance to victims’ families.
oh Geez, don’t tell me McDermott & Murray are going to explain to Iraqi’s what a philanthropist sadam was.
Just what are you trying to say there Cheap Whine?
Shawn @ 3:
I think the liberals should dive into the muck and bitch-slap a few conservatives, what do you say?
Naaaaah. I like having adversaries who are sophmoric in their approach. I’m just waiting for the harsher parts of NCLB to kick in so we can hold them back a grade until they get a passing score in civics.
Shawn @ 3
“I think the liberals should dive into the muck and bitch-slap a few conservatives, what do you say?”
I’m trying, I’m trying, but Rome wasn’t built in a day … there’s so MANY of them (or maybe it’s two people posting under 20 screen names).
chardonnay @ 5
If Chardonnay thinks Iraqi lives are worth spending American lives for, maybe hers should be one of them. When are you going to enlist, Chard?
Well, Shawn, you opened the door for my observation:
When I moved to Texas several years ago I had to get used to the local dialect and phraseology. “Bless your heart” is not used as frequently as it once was, so it took me several months to figure out what it meant. I was helping my uncle with a kitchen renovation when I smashed my thumb with hammer. My aunt said, “Bless your heart!” Which was when I figured out that it was southern shorthand for “You dipshit!”
To the adherents of either party’s entire political agenda: Bless your heart…
Two news items this morning.
Florida investigators reported they found no evidence of Terri Schiavo being abused or exploited. Investigators said Schiavo was “well cared for.”
The Washington Legislature has passed 2 election reform bills. The House stripped the photo ID requirement from the Senate version. ID will be required, but voters can use utility bills, paychecks, etc. The Legislature also refused to require everyone to re-register as demanded by the GOP.
Republicans wanted to require a driver’s license or passport, knowing that many elderly people don’t drive and cost would discourage most of them from getting a passport (a passport costs $97). Fortunately, this blatant attempt at voter suppression failed. The ID requirement enacted by the Legislature is sufficient to deter fraud. Republicans assume it’s easy to get ahold of someone else’s paycheck or utility bill. Nonsense.
The demand for re-registration also was an effort to reduce the Democratic vote. Republicans know very well that Democratic activists, unions, and others worked hard to register voters in the first place. They usually don’t match these efforts with comparable voter registration drives on their side. Their solution? Nullify all of the past Democratic voter registration efforts by requiring everyone to re-register. Baloney. The proper solution is for them to register Republican voters, not deregister Democratic voters. The Legislature’s message to the GOP is be constructive, not destructive. Ineligible felons and dead people can be purged from the rolls without requiring en masse re-registration, and that will be done under the reforms passed by the Legislature, which include among other things a statewide felon database.
But wait and see, the Republicans will now yell that Democrats didn’t do enough to prevent illegal voting. IMHO that energy would be better spent preventing illegal buying of guns by ex-felons and criminals at gun shows. How come we never hear Republicans talk about requiring photo ID or registration when the subject is firearms trafficking?
Shawh–
When LEFTISTS start trying to “bitch-slap” anything, they usually end up with an “owwwwwwwwchy” or “spraining some little finger joint” or “some mental deficiency worse than the many they have accumulated along the road to becoming a LEFTIST/MARXIST/SOCIALIST”.
We on the Right possess a rare armor that comes in the form of a “broken giveashitter” when it comes to the LEFTIST Agenda. Say what you will…it don’t matter a lick to us.
Nice to know that Cheney is a throwing his two bits worth (kinda like stale vinegar) into the pot. He has come out in favor of the nuclear option. Come on Reid, stop the senate now and see how the talibaptist/theocon/chardonilk like it!
BOB E.–
Great news!!!
You all can still find plenty of ways to cheat.
You must be relieved and proud.
Bob E. @ 11 because they know it is their family members buying the guns ilegally!!!!!!!
Tim Eyman’s latest $30-dollar car tab scheme, to me, shows why he should just move to King County and run for King County Executive.
Besides, there are only 3 places that can be improved by nuclear bombs: Nevada deserts, Arizona deserts… and King County Gov’t!!
joseph @ 15 and Marummy’s face
Comment by jpgee— 4/16/05 @ 7:38 am
Whatever that means? Marummy’s face is just fine…
Zits and ALL?
Comment by jpgee— 4/16/05 @ 7:40 am
WHAT zits? I didn’t see any. Just a birthmark.
Now is probably the time for GWBUSHWACKER to follow in the footsteps of another GREAT modern day leader……the religious and military man, LUCIO GUITERREZ, Pres. of Ecuador. He just disbanded his parties own hand selected supreme court because they were causing ‘problems’ with the general public. That is surely covered under the ‘holier than thou’ politics of the talibaptist/theocon/frigidchard politics of these great United States!!!!!
that is afterbirth…..you should try her diet and get back on your meds!!!!
sorry josef et al, I am just trying to ‘feel’ what it would be like to be on the ‘other side’. Not very fulfilling
Another sky is falling b.s. story from gwdummy.
Energy study finds greenhouse gas limits affordable
10:29 PM PDT on Friday, April 15, 2005
Associated Press
WASHINGTON, D.C. – Mandatory limits on all U.S. emissions of carbon dioxide and other “greenhouse” gases would not significantly affect average economic growth rates across the country through 2025, the government says.
That finding by the Energy Information Administration, an independent arm of the Energy Department, runs counter to President Bush’s repeated pronouncements that limits on carbon dioxide and other gases that warm the atmosphere like a greenhouse would seriously harm the U.S. economy.
http://www.king5.com/topstorie.....dc1c5.html
Bob E@11
Republicans wanted to require a driver’s license or passport, knowing that many elderly people don’t drive and cost would discourage most of them from getting a passport????
To get SS you need a picture ID so it would be no burden…if you were a citizen, very uneducated statement to make.
The demand for re-registration also was an effort to reduce the Democratic vote. Republicans know very well that Democratic activists, unions, and others worked hard to register voters in the first place. They usually don’t match these efforts with comparable voter registration drives on their side.??????
Once again the voice of ignorance, churches, local political activists, republican talk show hosts as well as one of the biggest drives led by the WWE wrestling federation, Vince is a Republican from way back (by the way I dont support a re-registration but I dont like people using false information either)
IMHO that energy would be better spent preventing illegal buying of guns by ex-felons and criminals at gun shows????
What gun and when was it bought at a gun show?
Does gwdummy know how to google? It’s no surprise, people think he’s lying about the S.S. crisis. (aside from the fact he tells so many other lies, I mean).
***Does Social Security Really Face an $11 Trillion Deficit?
Bush and Cheney say yes. But actuaries say the figure is “likely to mislead” the public on the system’s true financial state.***
http://factcheck.org/article302.html
Chuck, I called a guy about buying a couple steyr 40’s the other day, and even though these were brand new guns, he was able to sell them to me without any paper work.
And chuck,
I got his number out of the nickel ads.
What does having a picture id mean anyway?
Shit, I had a picture ID, when I was 14 years old that I could buy alcohol with.
Its harder to get a utility bill in your name, than it is to get a fake ID.
Just ask any of the 150,000 illegals in wa. state.
that is beyond chuckie’s scope, he is still trying to get the electricity turned on to his ‘ranch’ in Roy with no luck
I wonder if he needs to know where to get a handgun also?
Diggindude@30
Then why try, fuck it, we will just open up the polls and let peoples concience be their guide. We dont need voter registrations or any of that bullshit people can always find ways around that. No you need to put steps in the system, you know hurdles to make it a bit harder on the dishonest.
Let’s talk about Dean Logan’s deposition that begins Monday.
I heard that Logan and Huennekens will be grilled for a whole week going thru all their processes, internal controls, prior PUBLIC COMMENTS, documents, reconciliations, altered documents with no idea WHO altered them, discrepancies, pressure from Sims et al…..
A real grilling to the nth degree.
How will Logan make-out?
Will he “seal the deal” for setting the election aside?
Will he validate Gregoire’s comment that this was “a model election for the rest of the nation and the world at large”?
Will Logan breakout in hives, get those red blotchy LIE-spots all over his face?
Will Logan crap his pants?
Diggindude@28
I can do that without a gun show…and once again what gun what criminal?
Diggindude@32
Dont worry bout me Ive plenty of guns, hand and otherwise…and a CWP
Chuck@33
No you need to put steps in the system, you know hurdles to make it a bit harder on the dishonest.
Comment by Chuck
No, i dont think we should fuck it, i just am not going in for the chip implant yet myself.
I can prove who I am just fine, without having my fuckin dna,fingerprint,picture, and semen sample on file, at my local sherriff’s office.
The only real step we need, is a paper trail, to match to current records. Its then up to the individual, (individual responsibility, remember?), to make sure you have your voter registration up to date.
I also, dont think we need any more bullshit layers in gov’t, that repubs. will try to avoid paying for.
chuck@36
Dont worry bout me Ive plenty of guns, hand and otherwise…and a CWP
Comment by Chuck
Same here, although I was kinda pissed off when they raised the price from $5 to $60. ;)
Diggindude@37
I can prove who I am just fine, without having my fuckin dna,fingerprint,picture, and semen sample on file, at my local sherriff’s office.??????
Re read and possibly you can see the ignorance in your statement. No one recommended all of that nor did they imply it. A paper trail is useless unless we can prove that it was YOU that voted YOUR vote.
chuck@35
I can do that without a gun show…and once again what gun what criminal?
Its not the gun thats criminal, its who is allowed to buy it.
Gun laws do absolutely nothing towards removing guns from criminals.
There is a problem however, in anyone being able to buy guns at a gun show, or at any private purchase for that matter.
I dont see how to solve this problem without infringing rights of the public in general.
If it was up to me, we would all own guns.
I cant think of a better deterrent to crime.
Hmmmm
Saturday morning and the same cast of characters is here posting away.
Let this be an intervention ladies, you all need to get a life.
Diggindude@38
Yes me too, something else that pisses me off is that the feds are so into gun ownership, I feel a Washingon CWP should be good nationwine. (example, a trucker should be able to pack heat in his truck on cross country runs)
chuck@39
Re read and possibly you can see the ignorance in your statement. No one recommended all of that nor did they imply it. A paper trail is useless unless we can prove that it was YOU that voted YOUR vote.
Comment by Chuck
Well, how many people are going to cast a vote in my name, before it throws up a flag?
chuck@42
I got mine ok’d all through id., mt.,wy.,or., and parts of ca.
I even got one when i was working in ca., in eldorado county.
The only thing, down there, they aren’t respected statewide, just per county.
Let this be an intervention ladies, you all need to get a life.
Comment by prr
look in the mirror. You obviously didn’t get “tied up in the sheets” this morning either.
Diggindude@40
I completely agree, as a matter of fact with careful passenger conceal carry policys it is my opinion that we could solve our present airline/tsa problem alltogether. And no I am not saying to pass guns out at the gate…
haha,
funny.
Excuse me sir, can I get a “loaner” sw 40 for the trip to phoenix?
lol
Diggindude@43
But that assumes you vote, Ill bet only 50% of the registered voters actually exercise that right. Every year you can go to the fair or many other functions and someone is registering voters, now it is my opinion that few of these new “voters” will actually vote. So if I knew of such a person, it would be easy to vote for them…that is what I mean.
But think, who is goung to hyjack a plane when they know that 5-10% of the passengers are packing…and they dont know which ones….
chuck@48
But if that person receives a statement, THEY would know.
If you are going to go to this much trouble to get anothers personal info, why not just get a fake id?
You can make one on your computer today.
Diggindude….
HA,
Actually I had to get up and do some work & feed the Cat and thought I would look inside the looney bin.
It’s Saturday morning and my wife is sleeping and am just getting ready to go back to bed to wake her up.
Big plans for the day are a long (wet) run, housecleaning and then a friends Birthday dinner this evening.
On Sunday I will be going to church and spending the day surrounded by family.
I am guessing that you will be doing none of these things. Your day will be spent in front of a computer, alone, while you judge everyone else on their life, & their politics and criticize if they have any moral fiber and actually believe in a god.
I have no doubt that when I return on Monday, you’ll still be here.
Hope you have a good weekend you miserable piece of work.
prr
LOL Please!, waaaaaaay too much info, buddy!
Take your meds. There is now way, shes gonna let you crawl around in there with THAT attitude!
Diggindude@51
It is just another hurdle to go through for the dishonest. You cannot nessisarily stop them but you can put hurdles in the way. How much do you think it would cost to sent a voter confirmation to enery voter?
Comment by jpgee— 4/16/05 @ 7:48 am
Try writing in plain English…
The demand for re-registration also was an effort to reduce the Democratic vote. Republicans know very well that Democratic activists, unions, and others worked hard to register voters in the first place. They usually don’t match these efforts with comparable voter registration drives on their side.??????
Once again the voice of ignorance, churches, local political activists, republican talk show hosts as well as one of the biggest drives led by the WWE wrestling federation, Vince is a Republican from way back (by the way I dont support a re-registration but I dont like people using false information either)
Comment by Chuck— 4/16/05 @ 8:03 am
Hey look, I’m a Dinocrat and I STRIDENTLY support reregistration. If you need to do that to drive, then to vote it should be the same thing. This ensures only REAL citizens vote!!
And BTW, as a sinner, I DID carry around voter registration forms as a doorbeller – BEFORE I knew the extent of the abuse of the current voting system. I swear before you I won’t do that again!
Mr. Cynical – Right on again as usual.
Chardonnay – Hello! Your ideas have great merit – otherwise you would not see such unrighteous indignation herein.
jpgee – Bless your heart.
prr – Sounds like my weekend, only with a workout instead of a run.
chuck – I am very thankful for the second ammendment to the constitution.
DigginDude A lib with guns? Hmm, there may be some hope for you yet.
Josef The Marummy thing is really starting to freak me out. Fashion Tip – Stay the hell away from the hockey masks.
all@all – This is a political blog and it’s time to vote.
Repubilcans and conservatives only get one vote.
Democrats and liberals can only vote up to three times each, unless they are dead and then anything goes.
(we need to make this real, ok)
What are the Top ten movies of all time?.
1. The Passion
This joke is for Goldy–
A guy sits in his seat on a flight to Philly…next to a real hottie. She tells him she is going to a sex convention to lecture on “Myths & Truths of Sexuality”.
“Like what for instance?”, he asks.
She says, “I’ll give you 3 examples”:
1) People think African men are the most endowed when really it’s Native American men.
2) Frenchmen are not the best kissers…it’s actually men of Jewish descent (I knew you’d like that Goldy!)
3) Cajuns are the best lovers overall…period!
The woman blushes and says, “I’m so sorry, I shouldn’t telling you all this when I don’t even know your name”.
“Tonto” says the man, “Tonto Goldstein…but my friends call me Boudeaux”!
Diggindude: you are going to have all the liberals on this blog wetting themselves over your views: a gun toting, homophobic liberal. remember, these posters are citi slickers.
CYN @ 35
A whole week? That is going to require mass tongue excersises to maintain their lisp. I hope there is a govn’t subsidy to subsidize them for the trauma they will endure.
GODZILLA
way before it’s time. The first true life enactment of democrats out of control in washington. I really pick
THE PASSION!
@ 61
Keep that image of all us libs. You be unpelasantly supprised when we show up just as armed, ready to fight for our freedoms or country. The caliber dosent care who the pointer is, and not all of us piss on command.
DamnageD @ 64
You say you walk the walk, then why the hell aren’t you talking the talk? are you a closet conservative?
64. ok tuf guy.
65 & 66
nope…I have a life and have no desire to waste my weekend slinging shit with trolls.
&
whatevea
yes, Damaged, it is quite clear you are one happy fellow.
64 – I second that sentiment. I grew up with weapons training but have eschewed them for many years now. My wife hates them.
Unfortunately I’m going to have train my young sons in their wise use because it’s going to be a harsh world we’ll be leaving them with oil depletion and mobs of hateful people who want to blame the country’s misfortunes on anyone but the leaders they themselves put into office.
68
read into what you want…ya shouldnt judge a book by its blog post
69
exactly!
maybe i’ll hit the range this weekend…
you are a short book to read, Damaged
13: Come on Reid, stop the senate now and see how the talibaptist/theocon/chardonilk like it! -Comment by jpgee— 4/16/05 @ 7:11 am
This is classic deterrence theory at work. Democrats are talking about political Armageddon in the hope that Republicans will chicken out. Unfortunately, it’s easier for Democrats to threaten dire consequences than it would be to enact them. Because, while Democrats feel they are morally justified in shutting down the Senate, some are concluding that, as political a matter, the strategy is too radioactive to handle.
Typical liberal bluster: all gums no teeth cowardice!
A few weeks ago, it sounded like Democrats were ready to implement this scorched-earth strategy. In mid-March, Reid sent Frist a letter warning that, “[S]hould the majority choose to break the rules … the majority should not expect to receive cooperation from the minority in the conduct of Senate business.” The letter was accompanied by a defiant rally of Senate Democrats on the Capitol steps. Republican senators–and the press–treated Reid’s letter as a pledge to burn down the Senate. “senate work may come to halt if gop bars judicial filibusters,” The Washington Post reported. Iowa Republican Senator Charles Grassley told The Hill that, if Democrats were going to render the Senate inoperable, Republicans might as well pack up and leave town.
The specter of a shutdown certainly pleased the pugilistic liberal left. But it seems to have spooked Senate Democrats, who now emphasize all the things they don’t intend to block, like bills dealing with national security or “critical government services.” Where their tone was once bellicose, Democratic staffers are now circumspect. The initial response “was a little too overblown,” says Jim Manley, spokesman for Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid. “There never was an intention to shut down the government.” But other Democrats say it’s clear that some nervous backtracking is underway. Says one aide to a Senate Judiciary Committee member: “They did a showdown press conference and got showdown headlines, and then said, ‘Oh my God, what just happened?’ Well, what do you expect?”
UM< well it seems they didn't expect Republicans to say "BRING IT ON!"
Even if Democrats undertook a shutdown (or slowdown) strategy, it’s not clear how long they would feel bound to enforce it. “That’s the big question nobody has asked,” says the GOP aide. “If they say a month, well, who gives a shit? And if it’s until the end of [2006], it’s ridiculous and untenable.”
Meanwhile, some Democrats are now pushing for strategies that look less like obstructionism–a word that makes them jittery after last year’s defeat of former Senate Democratic leader Tom Daschle. (The role the GOP’s “obstructionist” label played in Daschle’s loss has been exaggerated, but that doesn’t mean many Democrats want to chance it.)
Given their uncertainty about how to deal with a post-nuclear Senate, an increasing number are desperately hoping that Frist’s bomb never detonates.
John@69
A survivalist friend of mine once said, in the end times there will be 2 types of people left, the ones with guns and the ones with food, the ones with guns will be able to aquire as much food as they need….
The girly men liberal democrats actually think they have a chance at winning against the REAL MEN REPUBLICANS. The R’s will only need one weapon, the verbal advantage, to call you what you are and laugh as you wet yourselves and run home and hide under mommy’s skirt.
possessed @ 73
sycophantic obeisance to a falangist dictatorship compells you!
and john @ 69 proves it, only a girly man says
“mobs of hateful people”
74: some decades ago there were great fears that the world would have devastating food shortages, particularly in India and China. yet the world has only a distribution issue, not a food shortage. doomsday forecasters have spread fear forever. yet the world is quite well off and the outlook is hopeful. while there are problems to be sure, a bright future exists for the hard working and the self reliant.
God, I don’t know who this guy is but I LOVE THIS QUOTE:
“Then again, there’s nothing quite like the look in the eye of a radical liberal when he knows his bullshit isn’t stirring up any fear in the person he’s directing it toward. When you witness that realization happening, it’s like seeing Velveeta melt.”
AND, he goes after simpering, whimpering, spineless “College Republicans” too.
http://www.ultimatewarrior.com.....Retort.htm
Sounds like ted nugent
Terrible ted, the motor city mad man.
I cant find anything i dislike about ted.
LibPet-
That is an awesome quote.
Most LEFTIST’s in our town will walk 3 blocks out of there way to avoid seeing me on the sidewalk because they know I can see right thru them and their words??? Like cotton balls.
Are you that handicapped guy on the skateboard?
Ted Has his own version of the 10 (14) commandments.
http://www.vh1.com/shows/dyn/s.....copy.jhtml
Most LEFTIST’s in our town will walk 3 blocks out of there way to avoid seeing me on the sidewalk
Actually you probably just have a horrible case of halitosis.
Chuck @ 74
“A survivalist friend of mine once said, in the end times there will be 2 types of people left, the ones with guns and the ones with food, the ones with guns will be able to aquire as much food as they need….”
Now, THERE’S a vision for the future of America! That must be what the founding fathers had in mind when they penned the second amendment.
Zapporo @ 58
The Exorcist
Oh now this one is really a riot! The Democrats won’t make 3rd time DUI’s a felony (Frank Chopp has held this bill up in his committe) but they will make stealing a goat a felony.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.c.....ing14.html
So in their twisted eyes we must assume that stealing a goat deserves a far larger penalty than driving a vehicle legally over the the influence of alcohol and getting caught for the third time hopefully without killing anyone so far. Amazing!
Dave @ 84–
I brush my teeth 3 times a day–
You oughta try it.
I think you can use for FOOD STAMPS for a toothbrush and toothpaste.
gs @ 87
Clearly, this is the Democrats adopting a Tom Delay-like “politics is war” strategy. I mean, Democrats are the only ones to get 3 DUI convictions, right? (Repugs flee from the cops or can afford to hire expensive lawyers). On the other hand, we all know that sexually uptight Repugs are the ones stealing all the goats–that is the only way they can get laid.
Damn right, goat theft is gonna be a felony!
Dave @ 84
The breath is just part of the reason. It’s those wingnut bumperstickers he wears as clothes with the BIAW-financed err.. L&I money-financed ones as his loin-cloth.
dj@85
I wasnt passing judgement on the comment eiter way, I just borrowed it and tossed it out there
wait a minute, screeeech,
Mike Lowery, a WA State Dem Gov busted by the WSP on I-5 many times for driving while intoxicated, while in office.
The breath is just part of the reason. It’s those wingnut bumperstickers he wears as clothes with the BIAW-financed err.. L&I money-financed ones as his loin-cloth.
Yikes. So sorta like Matthew Leskow meets Tarzan, right?
wonder what ol’ Lowery is doing these days? another dem “model” governor. maybe he is modeling ??
P.S. didn’t he get accused of sexual harassment ?
What better name for a republican senator, that walks around with his dick hangin’ out?
http://www.now.org/issues/harass/packwood.html
The insanity here is almost too much to reply to–it could give you a stupidity overload just reading it all. Anyway, the fact is that many Americans are now saying sex DOESN’T sell–modesty is coming back, due to the opposite being overused and peddled as NORMAL. If you don’t believe me, check some of the high end and avant garde fashion mag trends coming your way.
Good to see that none of that ‘sophomoric’ ‘repug’ insult tendency has rubbed off on you whited dem sepulchres.
Libs are like….computers…..full of spyware, vuruses, trojans and useless games and novelties.
Libs are like ….communists….oh, wait, they ARE communists.
See if you can spot the SIC above for three more ballots.
DJ @ 85–Just remember which side HAS the guns before you get too insulting (GRIN).
Chuck @ 92
Yeah, no problem. . . my comment wasn’t meant to be critical of you. It was the overall imagery that I was responding to.
For you libs with a real sense of humor, check out thoseshirts.com.
chardonnay @ 92
My point, exactly! Democrats are the ones to get DUI convictions. Republicans are the goat fuckers. Of course, we want goat kidnapping to be a felony. Delay has shown us the path of “true politics”–political warfare.
@ 72
Thanks for reinforcing your ignorance. No facts just opinion. How typical…
Finger2u @ 98
Naaaa. . . I am not worried that a Republican will shoot me for expressing my opinion. Even if we disagree, I know that Republicans stand for high principles, moral fortitude, and all that is American.
It would be unthinkable that a Republican would shoot me for exercising my first amendment rights to free speech.
Furthermore, all God-fearing Republicans would only use a gun against another human in self defense, in strict obedience to the 6th Commandment (Exodus 20:13).
Besides that, I’m not Gay, nor am I a minority.
(GRIN)
Cynical @ 12
Yes, we know you don’t care if the hungry go without food, or the homeless go without shelter, or the sick go without medical care, or consumers are cheated, or jobs are outsourced to India and Mexico, or libraries are closed, or school kids don’t have textbooks, or parks aren’t maintained, or cops are laid off … you don’t CARE. We already know that. No need to remind us.
per the washington post
DeLay’s Ability to Raise Funds Seems Unhurt.
House Majority Leader Tom DeLay’s (democrat induced) ethics troubles have not hurt his ability to raise money for his reelection.
In the first three months of this year, DeLay’s personal campaign committee took in $438,235, including $100,000 he borrowed personally for his campaign, according to the latest records from the Federal Election Commission.
“Congressman DeLay continues to enjoy broad and deep support,” said Dan Allen, DeLay’s spokesman.
“He’s continued to fund raise at regular levels. It does not appear it hurt him in any way, and a lot of the big players showed strong support with contributions in February and March,” Cooper said
You see Don, that’s where you’re wrong. Conservatives do indeed care. What we don’t agree on is that the government is the default answer to every single problem under the sun.
Josef @ 20
Look closely at office photos (when she isn’t made up for TV) and you’ll see that gal’s face is a Zit Farm. She’s probably got ’em on her ass, too. I’ll ask some of my Democrat friends who are in a position to know and get back to you about that. (She’s been cheating on you, Joe — sorry to be the one to break it to ya.)
PUBLIC NOTICE — DON NO LONGER EXISTS
Don died and went to Hell for being a mean drunk. Dubyasux NLSP, a no-liability sole proprietorship, is now being run by Alan. Like Don, Alan is a retired guvmint hack attorney, and a mean drunk who’s even meaner when he’s sober. Let’s all welcome Alan to HorsesAss! (cheers in background)
Cyn @ 14
When are you going to explain how your washing machine works? For those of you not familiar with the washing machine on Mr. C’s desk at BIAW, it looks like one of those old-time wringer machines with two rollers turned by a hand crank like my mom used in the ’40s, except it doesn’t have a bucket of water, it has a bucket of money instead. Mr. C feeds $100 bills into it and turns the crank, then the $100 bills come out the other side of the rollers. After going through the washing machine, they look the same, but they’re not the same. They went in as L & I taxes for injured workers but came out as Rossi slush funds. Something inside the washing machine changes the $100 bills, much like the proprietary software in Snohomish County’s touch-screen voting machines changes Gregoire votes into Rossi votes. Mr. C refuses to let us see what’s inside the machine. I surmise he doesn’t want to compromise BIAW’s money laundry.
But all his backers are criminals!!
hahaha
Even got the connection to the swift boat liars in there.
This really shows how the fish stinks from the head down.
Seems everyone he knows is a criminal.
How did this guy get elected?
Oh thats right, republicans.
***DeLay is under scrutiny for his overseas trips, political fundraising and his association with a lobbyist under federal investigation.
A Texas prosecutor is investigating a political fundraising committee DeLay helped launch to assist Republican candidates in the state’s 2002 legislative elections.
Three DeLay associates and eight corporations have been indicted in the investigation, although three companies have reached agreements with the prosecutor.
DeLay has not been charged with any wrongdoing and has denied any legal or ethics violations.
More than half of DeLay’s contributions, $221,000 were from corporate political action committees or trade associations.
The National Association of Convenience Stores political committee gave $10,000 and Wichita, Kan.-based Koch Industries Inc., donated $7,500.
Donors of $5,000 included political committees of energy companies TXU Corp., ChevronTexaco Corp. and Velero Energy Corp., and pharmaceutical company Pfizer Inc. and California-based ChevronTexaco.
“He’s continued to fund raise at regular levels. It does not appear it hurt him in any way, and a lot of the big players showed strong support with contributions in February and March,” Cooper said.
Among the individual contributors were Tony Rudy, a former DeLay aide, and Rudy’s wife, Lisa, who each gave $2,000. Rudy made the contribution while working for Greenberg Traurig, the former law firm of lobbyist Jack Abramoff. A grand jury and two Senate committees are investigating work Abramoff did for several Indian tribes.
Bob Perry, a longtime backer of conservative causes, and his wife, Doylene, contributed $8,000 to DeLay. Perry was a financial backer of Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, a group that campaigned against Sen. John F. Kerry (D-Mass.) during the 2004 presidential election. Perry also was a contributor to Texans for a Republican Majority and the Texas Association of Business, two groups at the center of the Texas investigation. ***
Dipsy dopey doodle… snooooooze…
With prominent dems committing equal and greater supposed “ethics violations” Delay is as safe as you are in your narrow little Seattle lib cocoon.
Unless of course, you’re willing to sacrifice Pelosi, Reid, Hitlary et al…
Oh, i forgot to mention, tim delay, mirant corporation, huge donations, and also a large player in the enron, california power rioff.
Just another day, in the lives of delay.
Chuck @ 34
Also, don’t forget to put hurdles on the system to make it harder for the honest, if they’re Democrats. The RNC will thank you!
An Arizona attorney called voter ID a “sham” to suppress Democratic votes and said Arizona simply doesn’t have a voting fraud problem and charges of voting fraud by GOP attorneys were “fabricated.” http://abqjournal.com/opinion/.....-15-04.htm
Georgia’s Secretary of State said Georgia Secretary of State, in opposing a GOP bill to require photo ID for voting, said she “could not recall a problem with false voter identification in the past nine years.” http://www.constitutioncenter......4100.shtml http://abqjournal.com/opinion/.....-15-04.htm
A law professor with expertise in voting rights pointed out that proponents of ID laws can’t point to studies or “tangible data” of how many fraudulent votes are actually cast, whereas “self-interested politicians can use ID laws to manipulate election results by disadvantaging political groups whose members are less likely to bring ID to the polls.” He also pointed out that ID laws do nothing to prevent felon voting, double voting in different states, or ballot box stuffing by election workers; and noted there are other problems with ID laws such as poll workers selectively enforcing ID requirements to discriminate against certain groups of voters. http://www.cjonline.com/storie.....g_id.shtml
Photo ID proposals are a sham for voter suppression. Photo IDs aren’t necessary (and as pointed out above, aren’t effective) to prevent voting fraud, because more effective safeguards already exist.
prr @ 42
“Saturday morning and the same cast of characters is here posting away. Let this be an intervention ladies, you all need to get a life.”
And what, exactly, are you, yourself, doing here, on which day of the week?
Chuck @ 47
“with careful passenger conceal carry policys it is my opinion that we could solve our present airline/tsa problem alltogether”
You’re fucking nuts, you know that? The LAST THING we need on a plane is some cowboy blowing holes in his fellow passengers, the pilots, and the fuselage! Not to mention terrorists showing their gun permits to the screeners and loudly announcing their intentions of safeguarding the plane and passengers against would-be hijackers! This has to be the most screwball idea ever posted on this blog.
prr @ 52
Would you please share more of your personal life with us by posting your calendar for Monday, and the rest of this coming week. Please do not omit your work schedule, so everyone can see how industrious and morally superior you are compared to us slothful retirees who sleep in until noon.
Josef @ 56
Yes, as a Republican, you WOULD support re-registration wouldn’t you?
zap @ 57
Chards had an idea? Where? Did I miss something on this blog?
On the other hand, you occasionally have interesting and useful ideas, e.g. your hockey mask idea for Zit Farm. It would certainly improve her appearance, and is appropriate for her personality as well.
zap @ 58
Fahrenheit 911, seen 10 times in a row.
Alan @ 108, welcome to HA! We will surely miss Don. Now I can look forward to dying and going to hell just so that I can meet Don.
DamnageD @ 64
The most important thing is lots of caliber. You don’t need very much muzzle velocity, for example 900 fps is fine if the bullet weighs at least 1000 grains. Always use hollowpoints or Glaser Safety rounds. If you don’t own a hand cannon, a 12-gauge loaded with double-00 buck is terrific for harvesting fat fascists, but a 10-gauge is better.
Robbed @ 68
I’m not — I’m a delusional paranoiac, but fortunately my military training and combat experience enables me to exercise sufficient fire discipline to hit what I’m shooting at.
Pet Poop @ 73
“This is classic deterrence theory at work. Democrats are talking about political Armageddon in the hope that Republicans will chicken out.”
You have completely misread Harry Reid’s mind. Deterrence theory assumes the person(s) you are trying to deter are rational. No Democrat believes Republicans are rational. When we talk about Armageddon, it’s not in the hope that Republicans will chicken out, but in the fatalistic realization that they won’t. Shutting down the Senate is not something Democrats are threatening, it’s something Democrats believe is going to happen, and is no more avoidable than droughts or volcanic eruptions.
Chuck @ 74
In the end times, all food will have a short shelf life, and survivalists trying to “acquire” food from liberals with guns will have an even shorter shelf life.
chards @ 75
Sweetie, if you want to bring words to a gunfight, you go right ahead dearie.
I think chards has secretly fallen for me, but regrettably for her, it’s unrequited. She’s not my type — I just don’t go for those fat, pimply, trailer-park girls with buck teeth and glasses, and a third-grade education.
Robbed @ 78
Republicans will always do quite well eating their children as long as they keep having plenty of children.
Mr. C @ 81
Your town has 3 blocks??
gs @ 87
“Oh now this one is really a riot! The Democrats won’t make 3rd time DUI’s a felony (Frank Chopp has held this bill up in his committe) but they will make stealing a goat a felony.”
That’s because of what Republicans do with goats after stealing them.
Finger2u @ 98
Please feel free to assume liberals don’t have guns when you fascists come to get us. Don’t be bashful about walking straight up to our front doors. Leave your kevlar vest at home; you won’t need it, because liberals don’t have guns.
dj @ 103
For now, all they do is vandalize your car if they don’t like your bumper sticker. http://www.komotv.com/stories/32534.htm They won’t come with guns until their theocratic dictatorship is in place.
Pet Poop @ 106
Don doesn’t exist anymore, I’m Alan now, but you can keep calling me Don if it makes you happy.
DD @ 110
Bob Perry, one of Texas’ biggest homebuilders, is famous for his crumbling foundations, cracked walls, leaking pipes, and support of “tort reform.”
“The company promises that its homes will be solid, care-free, efficient and economical. Agnew’s new town house was all of those things — for about a year. In 2002, cracks appeared on the floor of the garage and in the house’s bricks and mortar. A pipe in a bedroom wall sprung a leak. Nails poked through tilting drywall, and off-balance doors wouldn’t stay open. Thrown up in the span of a few months, Agnew’s building was supposed to be warranted from major defects for a decade. But Perry Homes refused to fix most of the problems.”
http://www.houstonpress.com/is.....print.html
“… Perry Homes has been sued dozens of times. Last year, Perry was among several developers watching as the Legislature imposed strict limits on civil lawsuits, particularly claims brought by homeowners alleging shoddy construction. Critics called the seats where he and other builders watched the legislative debate the “owner’s box,” because much of their money had gone to advocacy groups fighting for limits on the civil court system, as well as politicians who supported those efforts. During that debate, the governor put a Perry Homes executive on a panel established to put in place new restrictions on claims against builders.”
http://www.tpj.org/page_view.j.....;pubid=429
“His company, Perry Homes, has been sued dozens of times.”
http://ideamouth.com/swift.htm
“As of 2003, Perry Homes had been sued more than 60 times in the past 15 years, according to a search of court records.”
http://www.texasobserver.org/s.....cleID=1664
dj @ 120
shhh! Don’t tell the Republicans! They think they’re the only ones down there, and they think they’re in Heaven.
@ 130,
awe, let ’em keep his vest…just adjust high (or low, dosent matter, effect is similar..result tha same).
Don–
21 POST IN A ROW!!
I don’t read your content…I suspect most don’t when you are literally posting to yourself.
Are you hired by Goldy to crank up his stats?
Maybe Don is Goldy?
Goldy–
I know you have proven to be very, very open-minded towrds posters. But 21 in a row?????????
I think you will soon lose people if you allow that to continue.
Limit to say 3 in a row.
My 2 cents…
Comment by zapporo— 4/16/05 @ 10:15 am
In solidarity w/ the Defense Secretary of the State of Washington!
Comment by Dubyasux— 4/16/05 @ 11:38 pm
You’re just being trashy. As if THAT’LL stop me!!!
Comment by Alan d/b/a Dubysux NLSP— 4/17/05 @ 12:43 am
I’m a Dinocrat (Democrat for Rossi) and I support reregistration. It’s HARMLESS to law-abiding folks!!
Dubbled-up @ 104–It isn’t that we don’t care. We just know that welfare robs a man of incentive to do for himself and all you end up with is a dependent–useless and unhappy. TEACH a man to fish or get stuck in the kitchen the rest of your life. I was once on welfare and it robbed me of caring ata all–and when I finally pulled myself out of it and wanted to be better, they tried to keep me on the chain–job security for them, no doubt. It enslaves a man, plain and simple. In fact, it takes away his manhood. You can understand that, can’t you?
The community has given less and less since welfare and “entitlements” (where is that in the Constitution?) have been introduced by politicians wanting a means of making promises they never have to fully deliver and ensuring their election by a gullible, dumbed-down, government school confused public (the peasant class). It is what Engels envisioned and it is now here in its’ fullness, thanks to the idiots we elect.
Alan whatever your name is: posting all nite long about what a great shot you are and trying to foment fear is just winding you up. no wonder you can’t sleep. we repubs sleep like babies, knowing we are on the right side.
some advice: don’t forget those meds so often and watch out you don’t shoot your foot while you are shooting your mouth off.
In fact, I think if we “elected” a real hero, our elite ruling class would override it for “our own good” and the papers would praise them for it endlessly.
Also, I would like the Christophobes to stop blaming everything on Jesus and I will stop blaming everything on Bill and Al’s Excellent Adventure in return, okay?
While you are considering, here is a joke for you:
Liberals are like …..Microsoft Windows…..they never really fix anything, but the patches and explanations are endless and cost you with each upgrade.
I just neutered my dog—now he’s a politician.
OY! “Theocratic dictatorship”? Asking a man to forget he has a belief is like asking Hillary to forget she is woman just because she is a senator (in my opinion, she has done the first and the second status is dubious at best). Do you atheistic socia…sts really think a man is unfit for office because he feels responsible to someone besides himself? We want freedom of religion, it is true. What you want is freedom FROM religion. And before you start all the, ‘no, we just don’t want it shoved down our throats’ thing, consider that we who believe don’t want Marx and Engels forced upon us either. I think you need to petition for secession from the Union if you want to be left alone to do your experiment. It hasn’t worked anywhere else, but you may be able to kick that dead horse and get it moving again–God only knows. (wink)
Alan@115
Alan, I said a CAREFUL concealed carry policy. When was the last time you were in a restaraunt and had a licensed gun wielder stand up and start blowing holes in patrons? When was the last time you were in Walmart and saw that? The bank? My point is in this state you dont know who is packing unless you happen to get a glimps of the gun. Under the policy I would propose the average passenger wouldnt know either, it would be pre arranged with the airline. Ever wonder why no one robs a gun shop in daylight hours?
Alan d/b/a Dubysux@121
a 12-gauge loaded with double-00 buck is terrific for harvesting fat fascists, but a 10-gauge is better.>>>>
Stick with the 12 guage for ammo availability.
Whistling @142
“Also, I would like the Christophobes to stop blaming everything on Jesus and I will stop blaming everything on Bill and Al’s Excellent Adventure in return, okay?”
Blaming Jesus? I’ve not seen much of that around here. You may be confusing this with blaming people who shove Jesus down other people’s throats. Remember, many such critics don’t believe that Jesus exists, so, why would they bother to blame what is an imaginary being?
The bottom line is this, Whistling, Christianity is currently the largest religion in the U.S. But, who knows what will happen in 50, 100, 200 years. Then, maybe Paganism will reflect the majority, or perhaps Islam will dominate, perhaps the U.S. will go completely secular. Whatever the outcome, shouldn’t we have the laws in place now to protect the rights of Christians in a minority Christian society? Shouldn’t we treat other religions, now, with the same respect we expect for Christianity in a minority Christian society?
Do you want Pagan origins myths being taught to your great grand kids as “science?” Do you want government funds to be funneled into Islamic schools exclusively? Do you want mandatory readings of the Koran and mandatory prayers facing Mecca five times a day in public schools? Should a majority atheist society be able to use the government funds to suppress other religions?
I hope we can all agree that every American should have the right (now and forever) to practice the religion of their own choice, rather than the religion of the president or attorney general.
The “religion” part of the first amendment might well be paraphrased: Congress cannot suppress anyone’s right to freely practice the religion of their own choice, and cannot pass laws to privilege any religion over another.
This amendment will be mighty handy in a future minority-Christian America.
Chuck @ 114
Should we have kids packing guns in school, too?
One major failure of our society is that we don’t allow postal workers to pack a gun—it would help when a co-worker goes postal. And, it would help out with the dog problem, too.
Chuck @ 144
(I meant 144, not 114 in my previous post, too).
Guns on airlines are useless. Likewise, the Air Marshal corps is a Republican “No Tax and Spend” sham. Hijacking became an obsolete terrorist tool within a few of hours of the first plane hitting the tower. Anyone trying to hijacking a plane today will be immediatelly pummeled by the other passengers. Putting guns on planes increases the probability that a would-be hijackers partially succeeds—those stray bullets might well bringing down the plane.
Chuck @ 144… how do you monitor *careful*? Who establishes those rules? An overbearing government? ;0
marks way back 10… **To the adherents of either party’s entire political agenda: Bless your heart…** Good one…I always like reading your input… ;0
Goldy, perhaps you should educate your users to fair use copyright laws? Could be trouble for all…just a thought…
And all you gun toters, you’re welcome to come to my door any time you’d like…each man’s home is his own castle…each man will defend his castle to the death…
DamnageD @ 135
I like the way you think. Low is the way to go — blow their balls off. Normally I would recommend laying down grazing fire three inches above ground level to blow away their ankles, causing them to fall to the ground, whereupon they catch the next one in the head; but this is unnecessary with wingnuts, who usually manage to shoot themselves in both feet before you come in contact and engage them.
Cyn @ 136
You can call me Don if it makes you happy, although making you happy really is Mrs. C’s responsibility. Why don’t you talk to her about your happiness, if you’re unhappy.
Cyn @ 136 (continued)
By the way, dummy, the reason all my posts are in a row is because, unlike you, I don’t sit on my computer all day and all day with nothing else to do. I log on whenever I can fit it into my busy retiree schedule of eating, sleeping, and watching TV, and post my messages all at once. I usually have to post a lot of them because you Republican trolls are yourselves such prolific posters. And you’re wasting your time posting complaints to Goldy about my behavior; if you ever bothered to read Goldy’s articles, you would know he doesn’t have time to read the threads. You COULD try turning me in to the FCC for vulgar content … maybe that’ll work for ya ….
Josef @ 138
If you love Zits despite her face, don’t let me stop me! I wish you two all the happiness in the world. You might want to invest in a good bacterial soap before you shack with her; and, as many of my Democrat friends will attest, you take her with the understanding that you’re getting used merchandise. Consequently she comes “As Is,” with no warranty.
Josef @ 139
“It’s HARMLESS to law-abiding folks!!”
Uh no, it’s not — it will cause MASSIVE confusion. Instead of two or three hundred ex-felons confused about whether they’re entitled to vote, we’ll have two or three MILLION unregistered voters showing up at the polls thinking they’re entitled to vote. You rightys ENJOY creating election chaos, don’t you?
FingerPickingNose @ 140
“We just know that welfare robs a man of incentive to do for himself and all you end up with is a dependent–useless and unhappy.”
Most people on welfare are dependent children who are too young to work or disabled people who can’t work, but don’t let little facts like these interfere with your cherised ideology.
Robbed @ 41
My name is Alan, but you can call me whatever you like.
FingerUpAss @ 143
Actually, I share your belief in God and your repugnance for Marxism. However, I don’t think Republicans should be allowed to take the benefits of public services while paying no taxes for them. I don’t care for freeloaders regardless of whether they call themselves socialists or Republicans.
Chuck @ 144
When was the last time anyone saw a careful right-winger, armed or otherwise? I simply reiterate that if the government, in its stupidity, allows yahoos to pack guns on airplanes, I’m not boading.
Alan @ 157
“I simply reiterate that if the government, in its stupidity, allows yahoos to pack guns on airplanes, I’m not boading.”
But every cloud has its silver lining . . . what better way to make Amtrak profitable without government subsidies?
Alan d/b/a /Dubyasux@157
Just go to an Easyriders convention, most are armed and few are dangerous, the knowledge of firearms keeps the assholes at bay.
Chuck @ 159
Yes . . . that’s what makes their public service in rock concert security so valuable.
dj@147
In answer to the schoolkid question, if you can figure out how that would fit into a CAREFUL policy as I referred to. But I wouldnt be against some staff members packing heat…again with a CAREFUL poicy. Most of the Columbine death could have been stopped dead in its tracks. Remember Lubys in Texas, people died while the patrong gun was under the seat in vehicle outside because the law at the time prevented it to be in the restraunt, as far as the postal workers, you could be onto something there.
dj@148
You know simular things were said back in DB coopers day, no where there is a will there is a way, and if you think unarmed people are going to jump armed jackers, I have news for you, that 1 case was an exeption not likely to repeat itself in the future, people are too programed to follow like sheep in this day and age.
I signed off last night feeling gracious toward our liberal opponents in our common ground of love of reading, only to sign this morning to find, even in that, they are crass, immmature assholes.
So, tit for tat, this one is for you Seattle LIBERAL men*.
*Please note the word men is used advisedly and soley in reference to those ‘beings’ equiped with a penis, whether functional, disfunctional or totally useless [MetroDon/MetroAlan/…])
Metrosexual or Medieval?
http://www.townhall.com/column.....0416.shtml
“ Now, for all you Backstreet Boys who are wondering if, if, you are one of these metrosexual males from whom women, men and small animals are running, I’ve concocted a little test to help you shed your proclivities toward abnormality and begin to saddle up and ride in a more masculine direction. Are you ready? If you start to hyper-ventilate, just take a break and control your breathing. Here we go. “
You might be a metrosexual if …
• You use more than three words when ordering your Starbuck’s,
• You’re still into rollerblading,
• You put on cologne to go to the gym,
• You have an Armani Exchange or Banana Republic credit card,
• You Tivo Sex in the City and/or Will and Grace,
• You watch Friends with a note pad,
• You have panic attacks (look, either have a real heart attack or cut the crap. That feeling you’re feeling is not death; it’s called responsibility and most everybody feels it. So … suck it up, drink a Guinness and get a life),
• You shave any part of your body except your face or skull,
• You buy your shampoo at a salon instead of a grocery store,
• You take more than two, that’s two, minutes to fix your hair,
• You think Ben Affleck, Colin Farrell, and Orlando Bloom are really, really good actors,
• You think you have a feminine side to get in touch with, and/or
• You must have Evian and only Evian for hydration (Hey, thongmeister. What’s Evian spelled backwards? That’s what you are).
“ …something will fill the pink vacuum the metrosexual spirit is leaving, and I hope it will be that which history has always exonerated, i.e., the warrior gentleman. “
“ …throw away your four different hair products, dig into the great truths of yesteryear, plumb the traditional traits of greatness and fly a holy finger at the culture-crippling machinations of metrosexual madness. “
Sorry, Donny boy, your mauve pink day in the sun has gone POOF.
Democrats tax and spend; Republicans borrow from the Chinese and spend. Take your pick.
Goodbye, new man. Welcome back, Mr Rough and Ready
http://news.telegraph.co.uk/ne.....hunk17.xml
“ The poll’s findings might make uncomfortable reading for actors such as Jude Law, Orlando Bloom and Hugh Grant, all at the vanguard of “metrosexuality”. Their emphasis on high fashion and personal grooming – sending the sale of male beauty products rocketing – is now considered a turn-off. “
“ “I think a lot of men called themselves metrosexual because they thought it would get them a more intelligent bonk,” she said. “The bottom line is that women want a man who is not competing with them for mirror space. They don’t want a man who has love bites on his mirror.” “
Sorry, Donny boy, your mauve pink day in the sun has gone POOF.
You might be a metrosexual if …
• You use more than three words when ordering your Starbuck’s,
Le’see. “Sixteen ounce drip . . . please” ‘Doh!
• You’re still into rollerblading,
Does watching rollerdurby as a child count?
• You put on cologne to go to the gym,
Go to the gym????
• You have an Armani Exchange or Banana Republic credit card,
I might have been dragged into BR once.
• You Tivo Sex in the City and/or Will and Grace,
Never seen ’em.
• You watch Friends with a note pad,
Only seen Friends on an airplane–without sound.
• You have panic attacks (look, either have a real heart attack or cut the crap. That feeling you’re feeling is not death; it’s called responsibility and most everybody feels it. So … suck it up, drink a Guinness and get a life),
I do drink Guinness when good microbrewery beer is not available.
• You shave any part of your body except your face or skull,
I don’t shave nothing no how.
• You buy your shampoo at a salon instead of a grocery store,
Nope: generic shampoo for me.
• You take more than two, that’s two, minutes to fix your hair,
I have a lot of hair, but I’ll keep this important guideline in mind.
• You think Ben Affleck, Colin Farrell, and Orlando Bloom are really, really good actors,
They’re actors? Can’t say I’ve seen ’em.
• You think you have a feminine side to get in touch with, and/or
Not sure what that really means.
• You must have Evian and only Evian for hydration (Hey, thongmeister. What’s Evian spelled backwards? That’s what you are).
“Sixteen ounce drip, please.” In the A.M.
or
“Do you have any Sprechers or Victory Brewery products?” P.M.
Hmmm. . . except for the “please” I guess I need to go out, buy a pickup and git me a gun rack.
Thanks for the fun post Pet doo!
Lib Pets–
Damn you…you are going to take away MY TITLE as the poster these Left WingNuts would most like to ban.
I worked hard for that title. Then you come along with brilliant stuff like @163,
How can I compete with that?
I thought my Dean “Weird Al Yankovic lookalike” Logan stuff would easily secure me another month but now I have my doubts.
Goldy–
It’s time again for the BANNED TROLL OF THE MONTH contest.
So, who’s trolling?
G Davis @149
Good to see you again. I was wondering if someone had chased you off…I can’t imagine what would keep anyone away from here… ;)
Only a relativist could find equivalency between war, an accident, a murderous despot and the purposeful killing of an unborn baby an innocent woman or even a criminal – how handy that is for you.
War is not equivalent to purposefully murdering a baby or even a criminal.
An accident is not equivalent to purposefully murdering a baby or even a criminal.
Utilizing animal meat for sustenance and nutrition is not equivalent to purposefully murdering a baby or a criminal.
I’m pretty sick and tired of you’re throwing up the Bible, faith and Christianity in my face. Sadly though it’s YOU who say I was “indoctrinated”. It’s YOU who say my moral conclusions are only as absolute as decisions by others. Can you be more smarmy and insulting? I’m certain you can. But I suspect it’s the only way possible for you to comprehend someone secure in their moral code.
You want to diagnose me as delusional? Terrific, go for it. Conversely though, one might wonder what scares you so much about someone secure in their belief.
Good & bad, right & wrong never change no matter inconvenient that may be to a changing society or to a relativist that only believes what’s expedient at the moment.
DJ @ 146–Well said. I have no problem with that and cannot understand where you might have gotten the idea that I did. If I have guessed wrong, tell me.
You ask, “Shouldn’t we treat other religions, now, with the same respect we expect for Christianity in a minority Christian society?” As a good Christian I would expect that kind of treatment for anyone with a legitimate religious choice. By legitimate I mean ones that improve a man and do no harm to society in the process (I would not include satanism in this category, though I would allow for a man to choose not to believe in God). I don’t think there was any other aim for the founding fathers except that end result of protecting the rights of all men to worship or not to worship. Having said that, I would also add that they recognized the fact that our Constitution was adequate to no other society except one that would practice self-discipline along with the law.
“…every American should have the right (now and forever) to practice the religion of their own choice, rather than the religion of the president or attorney general.” We are told Congress shall have no power to mandate religion or the free practice thereof–period. Since Congress, as the supreme law-makers (not the judges who are so confused today about their own proper roles) cannot mandate this area, either for or against a certain practice, it would follow that it is also not the place of a president or attorney general, would it not? I am surspised to think that you might believe President Bush or any Attorney General is doing so today. If you are simply observing that he attempts to practice while in office the faith he claims to have, then is that not more honorable than a man who claims to believe and sets it all aside while leading the nation in such an important office? Who could respect his claims to faith if he did?
Let’s consider for a moment the definitions of ‘conservative’ and ‘liberal’, as I think there is a place for both in our society (despite my jabs to the contrary).
Conservative– Favoring traditional views and values; tending to oppose change. Traditional or restrained in style: a conservative dark suit. Moderate; cautious: a conservative estimate. A supporter of political conservatism. Archaic– A preservative agent or principle.
Liberal–Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry. Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded. Of, relating to, or characteristic of liberalism. Of, designating, or characteristic of a political party founded on or associated with principles of social and political liberalism, especially in Great Britain, Canada, and the United States. Obsolete–Morally unrestrained; licentious.
Setting aside epithets such as ‘stupid’ and ‘ignorant’ and worse, let’s concentrate on the most efficient defining terms of both words. Speaking as a conservative, I see myself as favoring preservation of tried and true traditional values. I am not against change, if it is to the REAL and LASTING benefit of society as a whole and not just to slake their present desires, but ending in disappointment and decay of morals or morale. We know virtually nothing of our history as the schools no longer teach it. We know little of our rights for the same reason. What could be more important?
As a liberal, I would guess that you favor freedom from authoritarian rule, openness to new ideas, tolerance of differences in others. Having once been a liberal myself, I understand this– not being limited in what we can do or dream of. This is a laudable attitude. Why did I change? Because I saw the role of human nature in that desire for change and freedom from rules of any kind. Too often there were no limits to what happened when the blocks were removed. The result was confusion and decadence. As I grew up there was no question as to what marriage was, what a good well-rounded education was or what a good politician and election meant. The lines have been blurred or fully erased today. It has not been progressive–it has been destructive. Some things are meant to be as the North Star–never changing and ever dependable. Other things, such as invention, are open to whatever we can imagine. But even these can be destructive–war technologies, too much leisure in our technological ‘improvements’, leading to time for mischeif and decay in morals–hence the phrase ‘idle hands are the devils’ workshop’.
As I have said before, I am not your enemy (I mean this in the broadest way). We both want what is best for our families and our nation. We may disagree on the methods, but that is what discussion is about. I read that ‘there is no harmony where all are singing the same note’. Differing views can point out new and better directions, it is true, but there is also an old saying as true today as when first spoken–‘don’t throw out the baby with the bathwater’. What works should be kept unless there is something better. We have all heard of ‘common sense’. This refers to the sense of the majority that something is right orr wrong–the common belief. Today we have the same thing. It amazes me how constant it is. In almost any issue that is controversial you will have a 1/3 to 2/3 split. In WW2 1/3 of the population said do not go after Japan. The same ratio is true today of those who felt we should act as if nothing happened on Sept. 11, 2001. But the common ‘sense’ was that we should go after these dangerous elements. Because of that there has been “progress”–millions now vote that never could before–a great percentage of them women. Do conservatives WANT war? No. I think most of us want to do as Teddy Roosevelt suggested–“walk softly and carry a big stick.” No need to explain that–it is plain enough and it works.
We also don’t want to starve children or rob old ladies. What we do want is to allow the community of peers (those who know you, not defined as our judges seem to think) to take up charitable collections to help those they have determined to be worthy of such help. This does not “tax” the public at large and reward sloth among the recipients. The government approach has resulted in laziness among recipients, a group of ‘public servants’ interested only in job preservation and fewer charitable contributions in the local community because “the government will take care of it’. Do we have less authoritarian rule as a result? No, we have more, because we have asked government to do what we should be doing for ourselves. They now tell us from distant locations what we can and cannot do in our own communities. I agree–we want LESS intervention, but we keep voting for more government promisers (not a typo).
PJ, I think we can meet halfway. As a church-going man, I have to repent today. There has been far too much inflammatory talk here and nothing gets accomplished. Even the humor has been vitriolic. None of us makes any progress and we don’t even get to know one another better, let alone solve problems. If we are divided in this way we will never be anything but sheep. I hope you can agree with this one statement from Ronald Reagan–“Government is not the solution to the problem. In this present situation, government IS the problem.” I would add that only self-government will suffice. Paul Harvey has said, “Self-government without self-discipline is self-defeating”. Religious conservatives want to improve the man, knowing that when the man is improved the government will follow, for it is made up of men. World peace begins at home with sound principles being taught to young minds who will one day be nations leaders. Does it not make sense to take great care in what they are taught? Tolerance is great, but a doctor who expects to heal a person of cancer does not tell the patient to tolerate the illness. He removes the offending tissue to improve the patients’ chances of survival. That is what conservativism means to me. Keep the baby and throw out the bathwater. We need to look beyond the label of the party and see into the heart and policies of the man or woman asking for our votes. I have voted on both sides and in the middle. I have seldom voted straight ticket–only once, in fact–I was forced to do so in the primary election this last year. I have wondered about the logic in the claims of it. I was told it was done because the old system was un-constitutional. But then we were asked if we wanted to keep the present system we were just forced to use. Do we want to keep it? If it was the only choice and the only constitutional path, why ask if we want to keep it? Are we to understand we could go back to the old method we were just deprived of without our permission? I had to question the motives of the decision, quite frnkly. And I truly believe that if my vote isn’t safe, neither is yours. As a conservative and as a Christian, I have to defend your rights if I want to preserve my own. That’s just the way it works and it is common sense.
Not sure what happened to my formatting–sorry. I had paragraph breaks and they vaporized.
Formatting aside, Stop – OUTSTANDING AND WELL SAID!
A fabulous well thought out conservative voice ‘Stop that whistling’ could teach Mr. Cynical-pants a few things about furthering dialog without so much crap.
The government should not sanctify marriage, only civil unions. A civil union should be possible for any couple or group of people, even brothers and sisters. The sanctification of marriage should only be the concern of one’s church.
Where does it say ANYWHERE that any “government in the US ‘sactifies’ marriage?
Government has an interest in marriage (between men and women) because of CHILDREN which are necessary to sustain the nation.
Winning Team–
Amen Brother.
Shawn is trying to relagate marriage to a simple religious crackpot ritual. Like many of the LEFTISTS who post here, Shawn seems to have no problem with children born out of wedlock..marriage is a simple religous ceremony. Not to me. It is one of the key foundations of any civilized society. Watering it down to please the politically correct minority may make the Shawn’s of this world feel better….
Do you have children Shawn?
yes, and grandchildren. My daughter is in a group marriage including several men and women. I have rarely seen a traditional marriage with as much love, respect, and support. The notion that one woman and one man is the only viable way to raise children is uninformed at best.
Chuck @ 161–Columbine could have been prevented, along with many other incidents, if we stopped medicating kids who don’t need it. I agree that we should arm those who are trained and ready to use force to save lives–in ANY situation. The police can’t always be there and contrary to popular opinion, they are not obligated to do anything until the crime is over. They serve the ‘state’, not protect the people.
A finger in your ear will stop that whistling— @ 143, and what all encompassing religion do you belong to? What is the ONE great religion that all of us should be forced into believeing whether we like it or not? The catholic religion, lutheran, christian scientists, presbyterian, methodist? Come on, what your answer? Or is it the Southern ‘Holy Roling’ do as I say, not as I do, marry your brother/sister/cousing/ hang those who you do not like, persecute all minority Baptists? What is your answer sir/madam, I really need to be enlightened. Maybe you should ask Chardonnay, as she posts like she has a monopoly on all things religious…very proud girl….oh oh,pride, isn’t that one or your mortal sins?
Cynical and Presidency–I have tried hard to bring the sides together in honest and civilized discussion. Previous to this, I was as much at fault in my partisan carping. I really hope now to keep things civil and make a real difference. May I count on your help to keep me on track?
By the way, to others who think righties are uptight and hate fun and sex, etc. I think it is just more accurate to say we have seen things slide so far afield that we just know it takes an hard pull with a tractor to get it back to center.
jpgee–geewhiz! What did I ever do to you, dude? I never said you should subscribe to any certain form of faith, did I? That is not for me to decide. See my comment @ 170 and you will better understand me. I don’t care to stop you if you wish to worship a yellow dog, as ill-advised as that might be. That is your choice and protected right. All I ask is the same for me and mine. No schools and universities teaching how great Stalin was (and it does happen) nor any of the same stuff from the right. Just a balanced discussion of BOTH sides and let them make an informed decision. It may surprise you that I TOLD my kids to visit other churches and make up their own minds. I never forced anything on them. Guide them in decisions? Yes, of course. Answer questions hinestly and look up whatever I did not know? Certainly. But i never forced my opinions and decisions on them. NEVER! Nor on you. All that does is get an uninformed decision made for you and a rebellious attitude in return. I may be a conservative, but I am not stupid. Nor do I assume you are, so that is why I posted at 170 as I did. Are you with me or not?
I agree with you Stop @ 179. My thoughts are that if we all met each other on the street, we would all be within the middle 40% of our culture with our ideals and views. Once we can hide behind our blognames, the acidity, hate, stubborness, closedmindedness, name calling etc come to the fore.
A finger in your ear will stop that whistling— @ 143 if you would take the time to read my post, you would see that it was for 143, not 170. Guess it was held up for the word ‘chardonnay’ by goldy’s blog program. Your post at 170 is better…..I guess
seems the problem here now a days is that there are daily nick changes and you don’t know/forget who you are talking with. Don changes nicks but always states it, most of the rest just change post for post until they get so much heat they find another one
Why not just use your own name?
jpgee keeps trying to convince himself & others he is a “centrist”!
What a laugh!
jpgee has gone by several other names (ie Rudy..the angry gay male, among others).
Don (ie DubyaSux, Alan, etc. etc.) posts under numerous names to cause confusion.
THESE ARE BOTH LEFTY’S SHAWN.
THESE ARE YOUR GUYS SHAWN.
Mr. Cynical, I have never posted under any other name. You can check that out witl Goldy, but I am sure you would call him a liar. That is your game. I have no Idea who your friend Rudy is and I really do not care.
also, Mr. Cynical, oops, not worth wasting time with a comment.
Mr. Cynical-pants,
Take a chill pill dude, I never thought you were a name bender, just a jerk.
Actually Shawn, maybe he should change his name….mr comical comes to mind. His posts are the one thread of laughter that entires my world each and every day. Very consistant, very ‘honest’, and very unintelligent
Stop @ 79
“we have seen things slide so far afield that we just know it takes an hard pull with a tractor to get it back to center”
You make this sound better than it is, because the GOP isn’t pulling to the center, it’s pulling to the hard right.
funny, I stopped by the day care center (uSP) just to get some laughs. Wow what an eye opener….I did not know that MacDermott loses every election and KC just gives him 80%. What a bunch of deluded hypocrites over there. The Christmas Ghost, KS, and a new one, Amused by liberals (mysteriously writes like our own troll). It is really amusing…you should go there once in a while to get your jollies
Hi guys. I am Barb, Shawn’s wife, and I have a couple of questions: Have you who claim to be Christians actually read the New Testament and words of the Christ? Doesn’t he say a great deal about letting everyone know what you are doing in the name of religion, e.g. Pharisees, praying quietly at home, and keeping your charity secret?
Have you actually read either Marx or Engels, especially Engels? How about any information on the origins on ancient peoples, who existed long before and long after your particular Christ? Perhaps, you might find the “real” origins of marriage in there somewhere.
Obviously, I am married, but can no longer have children. Should Shawn and I divorce after all this time because no more children are being produced now? Our daughter can no longer have children. Should she divorce her husbands as well? Marriage appears to be a very flexible “institution”. I will ask you about Abram and Sarai in Egypt another time.
jpgee @ 191
Everytime I take a peek over there I start to get sick to my stomach. You have more intestinal fortitude than me.
Snark’s titles on his posts read like tabloid TV story headlines
Goldy knows who I am (and what my real name is), and I trust him not to tell. I won’t post on USP because Stefan could then track my IP and “out” me, and I don’t trust him not to. I prefer to remain anonymous — this lion doesn’t want to get fed to the Christians.
Stop that whistling @ 170
Thanks for the insightful response. I really do appreciate it. Yes, my response to your post was broader than the points you were making. It was, in some ways, a continuation of points from previous threads and discussions on the topic of “separation of church and state”. Thanks for taking the time to respond.
Although it seems we are not too far apart on the States role in religion, I find it curious that you exclude Satanism, but apparently not other religions. Is this really necessary? If Satanists don’t break laws (or otherwise engage in socially unacceptable behavior), shouldn’t they have the same rights as all other religions, even if this is distasteful to Christians?
The comment about President and Attorney General were commentaries on the current administration’s numerous attempts to put religion (or semi-religious elements) back into government and schools. I believe they have been MUCH more active in this than most Americans realize, but certainly there have been numerous subtle examples.
Yes, I agree that the dialog can be much improved here. I’ll likely continue in some of the bloodsport, but it is always refreshing and welcomed to read a thoughtful and sincere post (particularly if it is a response to one of my posts). Indeed, we do have some things in common, but other things on which we differ significantly. Still, I very much value rational discussion of differences, and the philosophies underlying them. I always respect a well-argued position even in cases when I disagree with it (or elements of it).
@ 192–??????!!!
blah, blah, blah, blah
blah, blah, convenience abortion, blah
blah, stoke that racial warfare, blah, blah
astroturf in el camino, Monkey Business, and more.
blah, blah, blah, blah, welfare state, blah, blah, blah
lie, cheat, steal, murder, commit adultery amid glib denials
demonize republicans, crucify people of faith, blah-de-blah-duh
mass transit, smog control, minimum wage blues
blah-de-blah-de-dah. hug a tree today. someone else can pay.
ship those jobs overseas and buy a foreign car.
It just doesn’t matter. blah-de-de-blah-de-dah
It just doesn’t matter anymore. blah-de-blah-blah!
To paraphrase Andy Warhol –
“Everyone has 15 minutes of liberalism.”
I just wanted to get mine out of the way.
(I’m sure glad that’s over.)
Dubya @ 190–Well, when things have slid so far to the left , a strong pull to the right is the logical direction just to GET to center, is it not? Would a hard push further to the left do it for you? No animosity intended–that is a sincere question and I see no other real alternative to correct the situation.
DJ @ 190–“If Satanists don’t break laws (or otherwise engage in socially unacceptable behavior), shouldn’t they have the same rights as all other religions, even if this is distasteful to Christians?” Well, human sacrifice would be objectionable, I hope. In todays’ tolerant society, who knows–“at least it wasn’t anyone I knew”. I just don’t think that those who seek to destroy freedoms and morals while hiding behind the Constitution should have the same rights as those who protect the freedoms of others. This is called subversive behavior or treason and the last I knew it was punishable by anyone who actually gave a rat’s posterior about America and its fate.
“…attempts to put religion (or semi-religious elements) back into government and schools.” I think it was taking prayer out of schools that got us into this in the first place. Prayer was not mandatory, but at least they did not punish it for fear of the separation-of-church-and-state bogey-man. I have heard of over-reacting morons who sent home 8 year old boys for praying silently over their lunches. Does this teache tolerance or freedom to practice religion? I know that if he were Islamic it would have been a different story–and you know that too. What is amazing is that all this Jew-bashing and Christian bashing going on here only divides and yet it is protected. There is no thanks for the Christian men who founded this nation and even gave their lives and fortunes to do so–did you know MOST of the signers of the Declaration and Constitution were ministers? They did this at risk of their lives–it was a death sentence for them to do so, but they did it to protect the generations yet to come. The schools will never teach you that. The books that do are on blacklists–(Talk about Fahrenheit 451)–and the revisionists are hard at work seeing that it remains an obscure fable should you seek to know the truth of it. Yeah, I think we are in trouble here, don’t you?
You know, I don’t care if they don’t want any official prayer in school, but if a kid wants to read a book about saints or Jesus or wear a Tshirt expressing his faith and suddenly thats unacceptable or when kids want to ask a blessing on for their team and the ACLU has a hissy fit or when symbols that have existed on city seals or buldings or monuments for dozens of years are suddenly found offensive. THAT is the bullshit nonsense that drives stridency of the right to protect religious freedom.
We are not a country of the least common denominator. Al Gore was wrong. E Pluribus Unum is ‘Out of Many, ONE’. We are not a country that gives in the the one whiner that may find something NOT to his liking (like Newdow). Why should Christians, Jews, Muslims or anyone that has a faith abdicate that to appease a few malcontent atheists?
America became great at the turn of the last century NOT because the immigrants EACH only wanted their own culture (diversity) but because they wanted to be AMERICANS. My 4 immigrant grandparents did not give up their own cultures, but they strived mightily to BELONG to the American one. They didn’t risk their lives to come here to then SNEER at American values and ways. Coming to America, raising their children (my parents) as Americans in America was their goal, their honor, their achievement. It’s a shame more Americans don’t share their honor.
whistler @ 198
“Well, when things have slid so far to the left , a strong pull to the right is the logical direction just to GET to center, is it not?”
No, a strong pull to center is, and the fact you don’t understand this explains much.
whistler @ 199
“I just don’t think that those who seek to destroy freedoms and morals while hiding behind the Constitution should have the same rights as those who protect the freedoms of others.”
I think the ACLU protected our freedoms and defended the Constitution by going to court to enforce the right of Nazis to march in Skokie, and I also think DeLay by opposing separation of church and state is a threat to our freedoms and the Constitution.
The separation of church and state was devised as a protection of the church from the state, not the state from the church. Once you start faith-based legislation, you invite legislation into our faith. That is why our founding fathers and mothers came to America in the first place, to escape government interference in their religion.
to escape government interference in their religion. -Comment by Shawn Paulson— 4/17/05 @ 11:56 pm
TO ESCAPE GOVERNMENT INTERFERENCE…
not to have it eliminated from the public sector completely.
LIBERAL Pets have been spayed, neutered, defanged & caged – ask defeated Daschle @206
Once you start faith-based legislation, you invite legislation into our faith.
Whistling out your ear @ 201 Open thread
There is no thanks for the Christian men who founded this nation and even gave their lives and fortunes to do so–did you know MOST of the signers of the Declaration and Constitution were ministers?
You know I never new that about our Declaration of Independence. obviousley neither did you.
I went and looked at the names and proffessions of All 56, I thought I would take a quick glance until I found a few who WERE ministers…darn you if I didn’t have to get all the way to the “w”s to fine the ONLY ONE. John Witherspoon of New Jersey.
This is the type of stuff that you hear crammed down your throat by the right all the time, with no facts, but sounds good to make a point….this is why we are weary and afraid of the media people like Fox, they have now shame in doing whjat you just did.
So please when your gonna make shit up, at least have it on a right wing website, not in the Smithsonain. (Unless you just want to rewrite history, and give that much needed sainthood to those mostly lawyers, merchants and farmers)
Sorry here is the link to the declaration signers
http://www.ushistory.org/decla...../index.htm
Sacked for a 10-yard loss; nice play danw
nice opinion/editorial today in the Settle Times, dedicated to all of our resident trolls. http://seattletimes.nwsource.c.....tts17.html
and a great doonesberry cartoon today
http://www.doonesbury.com/strip/dailydose/
Shawn @ 205–well said
Dubya @ 203–Get a pice of grid paper and draw yourself a simple XY graph with a center point. Choose an axis (your choice) and go to the ‘left’ by a defined number of points. Now, it is only logical that to get back to ‘center’, you must reverse that direction by an equal amount in the OPPOSING direction (let’s call it right, to remain constant, shall we?), is it not? I hope that is a bit more clear for you. Sorry for the confusion. Still friends?
I agree Stop…
***The separation of church and state was devised as a protection of the church from the state, not the state from the church. Once you start faith-based legislation, you invite legislation into our faith. That is why our founding fathers and mothers came to America in the first place, to escape government interference in their religion.
Comment by Shawn Paulson— 4/17/05 @ 11:56 pm***
Just beause it’s worth repeating… ;0
Sorry I meant to say Stop @ 213 I agree with…I don’t agree with your grid analogy as I think it’s too much the pendulum theory…we should be more evolved than having to run the range of movements before settling back in the center again.
Or is that just wishful thinking on my part?
whistling dixie @ 214
Flunked statistics, did you? How the hell does going to a point far to the right of the center point get you to the center point? Even a pendulum, after swinging to the left then swinging to the right, comes to rest at center. The GOP is trying to defy gravity and come to rest at the extreme end of the right-hand arc, where a pendulum can be held only by brute force.
DonSux–
If you are such a statistical math whiz, you ought to know that anything times 0===0.
Example–
All your posts are completely worthless..of ZERO value.
If you post 31 times/thread 31 X 0==0
In other words, your combined posts are still of ZERO value.
Actually, your attempt to confuse all readers by posting under other’s identity’s has a negative impact on the leftist movement. Kind of like the LEFTIST movement is comparable to a bowel movement.
Thank you for your contribution to the RIGHT cause Don.
GDavis @ 216–“…we should be more evolved than having to run the range of movements before settling back in the center again.
Or is that just wishful thinking on my part?” No, it is not wishful thinking, but how do you propose we accomplish that? I am all for a centrist (read as: logical, cautious and reasoning) attitude in politics.
Alan (or Don or whatever you really are) @ 217–“How the hell does going to a point far to the right of the center point get you to the center point?” Let me make this real simple for you, okay? Start at the center point that everyone seems to want. Now go about 12 points to the X+ side. In order to come back to center, go 12 points to the X- side. It may look like retrogression to some and progress to others, but ‘statistics'(and physics) don’t lie–you come back to center, okay? If not, SHOW me where that is wrong. I hope the picture was clear enough for you this time. Thanks for your patience with me.
In favor of fairness, I want to ask Mr. Cynical (supposedly on the same side of the fence as me) to be more considerate of the slower students in class. Be sensitive to their self-esteem and feelings. We need diversity in all our lives and this test teaches us patience. You will be a better man for it in the end.
(Actually I am sincerely trying to accomplish a meeting of the minds here and some are still on the attack just because I am not part of their choir–therefore they think I can’t make music or that mine isn’t as valid as theirs. Work with me here, okay? Be less Cynical and let’s see if we can get somewhere we all want to go.)
Shawn @ 3–I suggest you and I be the bigger men here and take the lead by example. I really want to accomplish a better environment (less ‘bitch-slapping’, less thrills and spills , more communication. Some may immediately change channels to the Jerry Springer Show, but do you really want these lurkers anyway?)
jpgee @ 13–A filibuster does nothing but stop the process they are SUPPOSED to perform by law. How does impeding law help anyone? I would rather they ‘just say no’ than go into a year-long diatribe about whatever kids book they are presently reading. This holds up the entire nation, though it could be argued they are not passing bills they never read anyway. Maybe some good can come from it after all–I need to rethink that one.
As to stopping the senate (I assume you meant our state senate)–great idea–I vote for gridlock there. The tighter the better. That is the only way to ‘come back to center’, I think.
Whistling @ 201
“Well, human sacrifice would be objectionable, I hope.”
Human sacrifice would be illegal, in most states. :-) I should clarify that I was refering to “Satanism”, the religion, and not satanic cults that engage in illegal activities like killing, kidnapping, etc. There are many flavors of Satanism, and some are even bona fide tax-exempt religious organizations.
(And, no, I am not a member) :-)
“This is called subversive behavior or treason and the last I knew it was punishable by anyone who actually gave a rat’s posterior about America and its fate.”
Sorry . . . I couldn’t follow how you got here.
“I have heard of over-reacting morons who sent home 8 year old boys for praying silently over their lunches.”
I am not familiar with this case, but if it occured as you describe, it sounds over the top to me, too. I would bet that this is the exception and not the rule. I would also guess that the courts would uphold an individuals right to engage in silent religious rituals that don’t encroach on others. This sounds like the kind of case the ACLU would take up (on behalf of the kid).
“There is no thanks for the Christian men who founded this nation and even gave their lives and fortunes to do so–did you know MOST of the signers of the Declaration and Constitution were ministers?”
Others have address the “ministers” part of this comment. I would like to use the analogy that some of the most significant founders of modern evolutionary biology were also clerics. I appreciate what they did as scientists and naturalists, regardless of their religion. Likewise, I admire our nations founders because they were great statesmen and politicians, regardless of their religious convictions or service.
To Bob E. @ 11–“The proper solution is for them to register Republican voters, not deregister Democratic voters.” I thought the proper goal was to just register voters, regardless of affiliation.
DJ @ 223–Now we are getting somewhere. I appreciate your civil tone and approach and hope others will follow suit.
“This sounds like the kind of case the ACLU would take up (on behalf of the kid).” I really wish that were so. All I ever hear is them taking cases where they are on the wrong side of the fence to me. They take up anti-American, immoral issues and seem to go after the guaranteed rights of law-abiders. I am speaking from over 35 years of personal exposure to their professed causes. I think they are subversive. I did not always think so–it took a long time and their own track record to convince me.
Mr. C @ 218
I can do math, thank you very much. For example:
1. You and chards should get together because the sum of your IQs equals normal children.
2. When BIAW gets hold of it, $100 of L & I taxes for injured workers = $100 of Rossi slush funds.
3. Under a Republican administration, revenue + spending = deficits
4. Under a Republican administration, 0 WMDs = 1,500 dead Americans.
5. Under a Republican administration, 2 wars = 0 Osama bin Ladens captured.
whistler @ 219
My name isn’t Don or Alan, but you’ll make chards happy if you call me Sybil.
P.S. to whistler @ 219
If we posit that we have gone 12 points to the X+ side, it follows that going 12 points to the X- side does bring you back to center, but going 120 points to the X- side leaves you 108 points right of center — that’s my point.
whistler @ 222
We’re a republic, not a democracy — remember? The filibuster protects minority rights from the tyranny of the majority. Sacrifice the filibuster and you no longer have a Republic. And, by the way, turnabout will be fair play when Democrats are back in power and it’s your turn to be on the getting end of straight majority rule.
Stop the whistling@19
Actually, the entire spectrum, left to right, would more resemble a pyramid.
You could balance precariously, at the apex, the preffered position.
Going from far left to far right, a person would not necessarily, pass through center.
More for DJ @ 223–“some of the most significant founders of modern evolutionary biology were also clerics.” This may indeed be so. I personally find it takes far more faith than I have to accept such theories and the intelligent design side (which one of your guys called an oxymoron–I never understood that)is far more logical to me. I don’t say that lightly and I also am glad that there are men of all intents out there trying to solve the questions.
There is too much junk science taught today, though. I have personally written Stephen Hawking and challenged him on his teachings regarding black holes. (You may see these discussions with another fellow regarding that subject at rubak.com) Much of what is taught today (religion or science) is conjecture and speculation at best and disinformation at worst. So-called religionists no longer believe that God speaks to man and therefore they cut off communication via self-fulfilling prophecy, if you will. So-called scientists (let me point out that in earlier days the best of these were religious also) like Hawking seems all too eager to violate the very laws of physics they proclaim as inviolable if it serves the purpose of writing God out of the equation. Again, only truth will suffice in the end.
I recently heard the analogy of 2 men arguing in the presence of a cop. One man holds a box with a lid he holds firmly in place. The other says his wallet, which was stolen, is in the box. The first man gives a lot of ‘reason’ why this cannot be so–everything from the wind speed at the vernal equinox to the specific gravity of applesauce, all the while holding the lid tighter. The first then asks to have the lid removed to confirm the claims. In response, more foolish ‘reasoning’ is offered to confuse the issue. All men know that to remove the lid is to settle the question and prove guilt or innocence. Why will the man not remove the lid? This should be obvious to all. I strongly challenged Hawking and told him I would apologize if he could show me I was wrong. I have been waiting over ayear now and have no response. I suppose he is too busy, but I told him he was perpetrating a fraud and I expected a response. I would have thought he would care to protect his reputation if nothing else. Many of them are sincere, but there is still a lot of junk out there. Global warming, ozone holes–these are easily debunked by any reasonable person. The technological things that do come to light that could improve our lots are commandeered by the dep’t of defense or whatever and never heard of again. Too many peoiple on power trips and not enough real philanthropic feelings.
Diggin @ 230–Gosh, the universe is now a better place because of that explanation. What I want to know is how does it solve our problems? I wasn’t attempting to demean or belittle him too much. I just thought he was being unreasonable–and now you are too. What will that get us?
Pet doo @ 202
“Why should Christians, Jews, Muslims or anyone that has a faith abdicate that to appease a few malcontent atheists?”
I think most liberals—atheist or not—would argue that all people have the right to practice the religion of their choice. But, if I choose to be a Jain, for example, I should not be subjected to government promotion of Christianity. Likewise, if Christianity ends up being a minority religion in the U.S. sometime in the future, we would not want the dominant religion being imposing on us through the government.
Alan @ 229–The filibuster (named for the senator who first introduced it in abuse of senate rules) is not constitutional in actuality–no matter which side of the aisle is doing it. It violates their specific job description in this instance, which is to advise and to approve or disapprove the presidents’ nominations. How hard can it be to discuss, take a tally and deliver an answer? To do anything else is to impede the legitimate purpose of their positions and is anti-American, un-Constitutional and illegal and subversive. Do you understand me now? Either side doing this is wrong and counterproductive, according to the supreme law of the land.
DJ @ 233–“…subjected to government promotion of Christianity.” I don’t believe this is what is happening. I would object to that, too, if it were so. Just because we have a president that prays and won’t set aside his core beliefs while in office? Does this not make him more honorable thatn one who would so easily cast off his belief system for the time he is in office? I couldn’t respect a man, lib or conserv, that would be such a ready chameleon. It would make me distrust him in the future. I would sooner disagree with a man that is stable in his belief and respect him for his honesty.
Diggin @ 230–I may owe you an apology for my rashness. I now think you may have meant that the apex of the pyramid was menat to represent the population and their more’s. If that is so, then I apologize. In fact, I do so anyway. I still don’t quite grasp what you mean, but am willing to listen to an explanation.
by Stop the whistling@32
I dont think i’m being unreasonable at all.
What I’m saying, it isnt so cut and dried to get where you are, which is far right on some things, such as religion in school, it seems to me.
Framers were more deist than theist, which if adhered to, would benefit us all today.
To get to my theoretical center, one has to drop some baggage to make the climb.
I wasn’t critisizing you for demeaning his post, I figured I knew what he was trying to say, and you didn’t get it.
It appears I did judge you wrong–again, my apologies. Would you please define for me what deist and theist mean to you?
To me deism,a person would experience his realationship with god, on a more personal, private level, as opposed to having one god that trumps all others.
Just my view.
I want to air an opinion here that may help clarify my views to you. Regarding communism–it may have been an honorable goal at one time, but I believe it to be a corruption of a perfect system, the law of consecration, a theological principle.
To trust communism, one must assume that the leaders at the top are going to be trustworthy and unselfish. They must trust that the system can never degenerate into a dictatorship or totalitarian regime. None of those who ever attempted this has ever succeeded. The leaders always end up NOT having things held in common with the people (they ride in air-conditioned limos because they are party bosses and the workers treat their tools like crap because they can never get ahead and own the fruit of their toiling or be rewarded for their loyalties, etc.)
To trust a theocracy and the law of consecration (a form of ‘communism’ with God as the leader) you must trust that there IS a God, that he is a loving and caring being and that he has you rbest interests at heart. You must also trust that those he has chosen and anointed as his leaders are trustworthy and will never violate the sacred trust placed in them. You must be willing to sign over all you have to the common good, yet be willing to maintain stewardship of that which you have until it is needed and assigned to the one in need. In order for this to work, there must be direct revelation from God to man. And there must be the assurance of divine justice if any violations of trust should occur. This system has been experimented with and has been successful–the city of Enoch as described in the Bible. The system was practiced and perfected until the people themselves became perfected in heart mind and soul–all for one and one for all, you might say. There was no jealousy and no envy or covetousness in the end. Their hearts and purpose were one. They were united in word and deed. Is that not what Communism professes to want? The problem is that man is trying to do it alone, with only man in charge and only man being answerable to man. Human nature is less than perfect, as you know, and only a perfect being can teach us to be perfect. Therefore, only a perfect being canb run the system that we want and we must be answerable to him in the process, if we wish to accomplish perfection and true equality. It makes perfect sense.
“a person would experience his realationship with god, on a more personal, private level”–I think that is a reasonable goal for all of us, is it not? Is that not what makes us better people? But this does not preclude a president being aloowed to mention that he prays for his people, does it? To be a good Christian does not mean to wear it on your sleeve, but neither does it mean to hide it in your closet. The ideal goal is that all men should have a personal relationship with their God. If they not only speak to him, but get answers FROM him, they are better off for it. But we don’t want to punish the mere mention of it in public–it is not freedom FROM religion that we want.
Theism–Belief in the existence of a god or gods, especially belief in a personal God as creator and ruler of the world.
Deism–The belief, based solely on reason, in a God who created the universe and then abandoned it, assuming no control over life, exerting no influence on natural phenomena, and giving no supernatural revelation.
I have to confess to being in the former camp. I can point to a moment when I went in an instant from not knowing if there was a God to not being able to deny there is a God. He is very real to me and has spoken to me on many occasions. Now, I cannot prove it to you. You must do that for yourself. It is a personal experiment every man or woman must do if they are to find the real road to peace in their lives. That is all I can say on that issue for now. I know there will be many who think already that I am preaching. I am not. Just letting you see who I am.
“Framers were more deist than theist, which if adhered to…” I have to disagree with you here. Franklin, often accused of being a deist, put the signers back on track by stating that “if a sparrow could not fall without the grand author of the universe seeing it, then neither can an empire be raised without his assistance.” Does this sound like one who believes God has abandoned men and plays no further role in our lives?
P.S. He then called for prayer before continuing in their efforts. (Later he said we had a republic, IF WE COULD KEEP IT). Again, one might ask why we are in danger of losing it if we are not now turning our backs on him who gave it to us.
S.P. @ 205
“The separation of church and state was devised as a protection of the church from the state, not the state from the church.”
There is no implication in the first amendment or any of the documents leading to the first amendment that protects “church” as a corporate religious entity.
The First Amendment protects rights of individuals to excercise choice in religion and be free from religious coercion. It also prevents a state religion, but the intent appears to be because that would infringe on free exercise of religion by idividuals, not for protection of religions themselves.
The intent is much clearer in the wording originally proposed by Madison, “The civil rights of none shall be abridged on account of religious belief or worship, nor shall any national religion be established, nor shall the full and equal rights of conscience be in any manner, or on any pretence, infringed.” That is not protection of church, per se; it is unambiguously protection of individual rights.
“full and equal rights of conscience be in any manner … infringed” means I can believe any religion or philosophy that I choose, and the government can’t do anything to shake my beliefs.
If we go back to Jefferson’s letter that is credited with being the seed of the first amendment, Jefferson says “… I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between church and state.”
Again, this is not really protecting the “state from church” or the “church from state”, it is about protecting rights of individuals. “A wall of separation between church and state” here is a strong and symmetric idea–it is a high standard that ensures indivudals will never have the government shoving any particular religion down their throats or telling them they cannot practice any particular religion.
whistler @ 231
“I personally find it takes far more faith than I have to accept such theories and the intelligent design side (which one of your guys called an oxymoron–I never understood that)is far more logical to me.”
Let’s examine this statement. You say it takes “faith” to accept evolutionary theories whereas intelligent design is more “logical” to you. Clearly, you are applying different tests to evolution and intelligent design. You are testing evolution according to faith, but you are testing intelligent design by logic.
Your faith dictates that evolution must fail the faith test, because evolution is contrary to a central tenet of your faith — that God created the universe and all creatures. On the other hand, if God is taken on faith as the originator of species, then it logically follows that we were intelligently designed.
On the other hand, if you were to test evolution logically instead of according to your faith, you would seek an explanation for the physical facts, and after coming up with a theory, you would test the theory by investigating whether the observed fits logically fit with the theory. This investigation might include collecting fossils from different points on the time scale, comparing them for physical similarities, deducing whether observed changes that occurred in the fossils over time might be the result of some kind of relationship, and then positing possible mechanisms for the change such as adaptation, mutation, and selection (which, by the way, work very well from a logical standpoint to explain why and how physical changes in the same species might occur over time).
I think you too readily dismiss vast labors by countless scientists over several generations to understand the physical mechanisms of species origination and change. Clearly, the physical characteristics of most animals are not static; while some species are so well adapted to their environment they seem to have changed little or not at all over hundreds of millions o years (e.g., sharks), we know for example that many species have died out and new species have appeared, and within our own human species that changes in average physical characteristics such as height and weight have occurred over the course of historic time as verified by recorded data. Science consists of carefully piecing together verified data and drawing reasoned conclusions from the assembled data, always leaving the door open to future revision of the conclusions. To dismiss this careful work as “junk science” is merely ignorance. The proper definition of “junk science” is much narrower: “Junk science” is method that does not satisfy the rigors of scientific method and therefore produces unreliable conclusions. An example of “junk science” is a government scientist being ordered by his superiors to revise his conclusions so as to support the administration’s political objectives.
231
I would add that evolutionary theory does not exclude the existence of God because it is logical that evolutionary processes could have been designed or could have an intelligent guiding force behind them. The main threat evolution theory poses to religionists is that it is inconsistent with a literal interpretation of Genesis’s description of the creation of the universe and man in just six days; and it is interesting to note that the religionists who feel threatened by evolution theory invariably are Bible literalists, whereas denominations willing to treat the Bible as metaphorical do not have this problem with evolution theory.
whistler @ 234
The filibuster is “anti-American, un-Constitutional and illegal and subversive”? Really? I thought it was just a supermajority. You know — like school levies.
So — is the 60% requirement for school levies anti-American, un-Constitutional, illegal, and subversive?
Whistling @ 235
“Just because we have a president that prays and won’t set aside his core beliefs while in office?”
I don’t know anybody who expects a political leader to give up his/her religion while in office. That’s a straw man. . . . Many of us do, however, expect leaders to “uphold the constitution” in public matters, even when the constitution (and the law enabled therein) conflicts their core beliefs.
DJ @ 244–“…the intent appears to be because that would infringe on free exercise of religion by idividuals, not for protection of religions themselves.” I couldn’t agree more. Excellent essay.
To Alan @ several–
“I personally find it takes far more faith than I have to accept such theories and the intelligent design side (which one of your guys called an oxymoron–I never understood that)is far more logical to me.”
Let’s examine this statement. You say it takes “faith” to accept evolutionary theories whereas intelligent design is more “logical” to you. Clearly, you are applying different tests to evolution and intelligent design. You are testing evolution according to faith, but you are testing intelligent design by logic.
(You are stretching and bending my intent to the breaking point here. This forum is obviously too limited for a full discussion and the time it would take to do justice would be prohibitive, but suffice it to say that I apply logic to religion AND to science. It must make sense if I am to believe it. I think it is interesting that you didn’t show surprise that the logic was not applied to science and the faith to religion, but the other way around. You did not object that these would be different tests and the expected means for a Christian. I simply mean by my statement that there are too any empty spots and missing links in the theory to be easily palatable for me. It is too great a leap of faith for me. It is far more logical in the creationist approach to me.)
Your faith dictates that evolution must fail the faith test, because evolution is contrary to a central tenet of your faith – that God created the universe and all creatures. On the other hand, if God is taken on faith as the originator of species, then it logically follows that we were intelligently designed.
(You are jumping to confusions here. You assume my faith dictates such a thing. You are wrong. My faith and approach dictates that a test must be passed–even if it proves my personal understanding to be flawed. It must be logical and true, that is all. I do not assume that God could not have used a logical progression in the creation of this earth, just because I am religious. I can assume he would plan in stages and implement in stages. For example, he placed one man and one woman to populate the earth. Since the animals were here before them, I can safely reason that he placed a male and female whale in the ocean and gave time to populate the ocean, as with horses on land, trees and birds, etc. This would explain the ages you define in evolutionary theory, which I can also show from the Bible, that would place the age of the earth at about 2.2 billion years, if I recall correctly. You see, I believe religion and science need not exclude one another. Don’t judge me too soon, okay?)
On the other hand, if you were to test evolution logically instead of according to your faith, you would seek an explanation for the physical facts, and after coming up with a theory, you would test the theory by investigating whether the observed fits logically fit with the theory. This investigation might include collecting fossils from different points on the time scale, comparing them for physical similarities, deducing whether observed changes that occurred in the fossils over time might be the result of some kind of relationship, and then positing possible mechanisms for the change such as adaptation, mutation, and selection (which, by the way, work very well from a logical standpoint to explain why and how physical changes in the same species might occur over time).
(As stated above, I have tested logically and the theory as presented is full of holes, but not totally without ability to be salvaged, if seen correctly. The assumption that different time scales, as you put it, would require a living animal to lie down and refuse to rot while it wasd being fossilized is too much for me to swallow. I can, however, accept a cataclysm that would quickly bury and compress said animal and preserve the form of it. I can accept that such cataclysm could be caused by an astral body of sufficient size passing the earth and raising great tidal waves that would scour the earth of life and crack the crust in plottable arcs as our present-day mountain ranges and cause volcanic upheavals as is evident from the record you quote. Also evident is that seashells ended up on the tallest mountains, whether through these upheavals or through the giant tidal waves that “continually came and went” as the Bible puts it–not as standing waters alone. I can accept that the “fountains of the deep” could be a layer of water in the rocks that was greatly pressurized and shot foprth to extreme altitudes when the rocks cracked and collappsed, adding to the sudden demise of the water canopy and aiding in the formation of polar caps and rain that was previously unheard of, according to the Bible. I can accept that the atmospheric changes from this volcanic upheaval would induce a collapse of the water canopy in the atmosphere and that previously very large plants and animals protected by the homogenous greenhouse environment of the earth would suddenly become extinct and unable to survive the loss of sufficient flora to sustain them. I can accept a lot of things that are rational and logical and scientific in the realm of religious discussion. Can you?)
I think you too readily dismiss vast labors by countless scientists over several generations to understand the physical mechanisms of species origination and change. Clearly, the physical characteristics of most animals are not static; while some species are so well adapted to their environment they seem to have changed little or not at all over hundreds of millions o years (e.g., sharks), we know for example that many species have died out and new species have appeared, and within our own human species that changes in average physical characteristics such as height and weight have occurred over the course of historic time as verified by recorded data. Science consists of carefully piecing together verified data and drawing reasoned conclusions from the assembled data, always leaving the door open to future revision of the conclusions. To dismiss this careful work as “junk science” is merely ignorance. The proper definition of “junk science” is much narrower: “Junk science” is method that does not satisfy the rigors of scientific method and therefore produces unreliable conclusions. An example of “junk science” is a government scientist being ordered by his superiors to revise his conclusions so as to support the administration’s political objectives.
(Let me give you an example of junk science–via Hawking and his ilk. Black Holes. First we are told that nothing can escape from a Black Hole, not even light. Later we are told that x-rays can and do. These too are part of the electromagnetic spectrum and should behave according to the same laws as radio waves and visible light, but no…. We are told that the Big Bang started as a singularity–a tiny point in which all the matter in the universe was contained and then it exploded. No matter that this by definition the biggest Black Hole of all–the MOTHER of all Black Holes and that nothing COULD escape from it–we are just told it did and asked to accept blindly–with faith, if you will. Then we are told that the quasars that are on the outer reaches of our galaxy are accelerating as they recede from center. The fact that nothing can accelerate in a vacuum once set in motion does not bother them–they seem able to believe Newton AND fairytales. There is no explanation made of how this might be–is something ‘pushing it away? There is nothing in the center anymore to do so. Is there something drawing it to the edges and causing this acceleration? There is nothing there dense enough to do so. Amazing, MAGIC! The sacred cow of science has just died and none of these men have even noticed, let alone mourn for it. You said, “Junk Science is method that does not satisfy the rigors of scientific method and therefore produces unreliable conclusions.” I would say that these ‘theories’ they posit are able to nicely fit the bill–and I haven’t even covered it all or broken a sweat.)
Comment by Alan— 4/18/05 @ 2:37 pm
231
I would add that evolutionary theory does not exclude the existence of God because it is logical that evolutionary processes could have been designed or could have an intelligent guiding force behind them. The main threat evolution theory poses to religionists is that it is inconsistent with a literal interpretation of Genesis’s description of the creation of the universe and man in just six days; and it is interesting to note that the religionists who feel threatened by evolution theory invariably are Bible literalists, whereas denominations willing to treat the Bible as metaphorical do not have this problem with evolution theory.
(It is not inconsistent with the description the Bible gives of days. A day on Jupiter is not the same as here, is it? A day in the realm of the Gods may be very different indeed and the Bible seems to indicate such is the case. The exact reference is 2nd Peter 3:8, but the gist is that ‘one day is a thousand years and a thousand years as one day to the Lord’. Start with one day BEING equal to one thousand years. It would then follow that two days is two thousand years, etc. To continue the logic: one year to God would then be 365,000 of our years. A thousand of THOSE years would be 365 million years. And then remember there were six days mentioned. This brings the grand total to approximately 2.2 billion years. Isn’t that awfully close to what your scientists says is the age of the earth? Seems Moses and his friends weren’t so stupid after all.)
Comment by Alan— 4/18/05 @ 2:45 pm
whistler @ 234
The filibuster is “anti-American, un-Constitutional and illegal and subversive”? Really? I thought it was just a supermajority. You know – like school levies.
(I guess you don’t understand what a filibuster is. No prob–a lot of Americans don’t. It is named after a man who decided not to relinquish the floor to anyone else and just hold up things for as long as he could continue talking. So, he recited poems, read books and told stories and gave lectures–the fact that none of these were related to the topic at hand seemed of little importance to Senator Filibuster–he just kept talking anyway. And because the rules said he could talk as long as he wanted, he kept doing so. But the use today is a problem. The Constitution says the Senate will advise the president and give a yea or nay on his recommendations for judges–not that they will keep talking and AVOID doing their jobs. They are now in violation of the Constitution and should be held accountable. I think any rational man can see this. It matters not whether it is a republican or a democrat doing it–it is in violation and should be punished.)
So – is the 60% requirement for school levies anti-American, un-Constitutional, illegal, and subversive?
(See the above definition.)
Comment by Alan— 4/18/05 @ 2:49 pm
Whistling @ 235
“Just because we have a president that prays and won’t set aside his core beliefs while in office?”
I don’t know anybody who expects a political leader to give up his/her religion while in office. That’s a straw man. . . . Many of us do, however, expect leaders to “uphold the constitution” in public matters, even when the constitution (and the law enabled therein) conflicts their core beliefs.
(I whole-heartedly agree with you on that.)
Comment by dj— 4/18/05 @ 2:57 pm
Sorry about formatting again–it keeps vaporizing on me. Not sure why. I had spaces and it was divided for ease of reading. RATZ!
Stop @ 219 How do I propose we collectively get to the center without ranging all the way right followed by all the way left?
A great start would be to listen more than we talk…we’re all too busy formulating what we’ll say next while the other guy is trying to explain his perspective.
Stop @220 You say *to be more considerate of the slower students in class. Be sensitive to their self-esteem and feelings. We need diversity in all our lives and this test teaches us patience.*
What an amazingly condesending statement…
******NEWS FLASH*****
AIR AMERICAN LOSING $8 MILLION PER YEAR
despite all the MSM giving them free plugs
last in the ratings in detroit. i guess when Americans hear liberals being themselves they make the free choice to turn that crap off. old has been stand up comics and actors can’t hold an audience very long when they spew hate america rhetoric.
Nice knowing ya!
FYI, Bill Bennet picked up 124 stations right off the bat. Air America struggles with 50.
GDavis @ 251–Okay, you deserve an apology and you get one. And I have been trying to listen more and asking others to do the same–including Mr. Cynical. The condescending attitude was more in response to those who took no notice of the fact that I was trying to be reasonable and just attacked me anyway. I guess the better thing to do is to ignore the hate speech and just state what I wish to say in the future. I hope it pays off and is effective.
After watching the Democrats in this state blatantly disregard and gut the I601 super majority tax increase rules that the majority of this stat’s people put into effect, I have changed my mind about what the Federal Government Republicans should do in regards to democratic filibusters. I now say take the Nuclear option, and vote in all the new judges they want.
The Washington Democrats are setting the bar on disregarding the other party’s will, as well as the majority of the citizens in this state! Their actions in this legislative session will cost them nothing but defeat!
Comment by Stop the whistling @ 222, in all fairness, this administration has had over 95% of its judicial nominees approved. The did not approve 10 the first term. Now this ‘president’ decides to show his colors and renominate 7 of the 10 that were not approved. What would you do in the reverse situation? Would you roll over on your party? Platform? Ideals? and decide that these judges have been reincarntated into the type of judge you want? I do not think so. The courts are overwelmingly packed by judges placed by the conservative administrations. What is your answer? Mine, regretfully, would be ‘hey we told you no last time, and we still tell you no, you want to change the rules (ie, Delay and his ‘ethics’ fan club) so we therefore will stand up for our rights in the only way that is possible with the government 100% controlled by one party (and really only a handful of extremists) Answer intelligently please. Thank you
#Comment by Stop the whistling @ 222
Comment by Stop the whistling @ 222, you know the saying about assuming? I had no comment even inderectly about our state’s situation.
Stop the whistling @ 221,
I’d like to be here more often to further the less passionate intellectual discussions. People changing their screen names are confusing but why do people care about the real identity of the posters anyway. These blogs are not meant to be “Fair and Balanced” so who cares if a bunch of political shills are here posting; don’t we expect that?
I use my own name because I stand behind my words. I cannot be ‘outed’ because I am already out. Still, it is every poster’s right to change their names as often as possible or to impersonate others, they have motives we may not understand… but the right people do.
Religion ………….Why do people get so preachy about it?
DJ @244,
I was not speaking of documents but of attitudes in the late 17th and early 18th centuries. Read Roger Williams or William Penn to get a better sense of what I’m refering to.
Our founding parents came to America because their homelands persecuted them as religious fanatics. Once they got to America, everyone persecuted each other as badly, or worse, than back in Europe.
Our founding fathers rightly decided to frame a secular government separate from any church, not to protect the state from the church, but to protect the church from the state.
jpgee @ 255–“renominate 7 of the 10 that were not approved. What would you do in the reverse situation?” I would just say no again, not make a big show of it. You don’t have to throw a tantrum or put on a broadway stage play to do so–just take a vaote and say no. How hard is that? No holding up things they think are more important, no grandstanding, no childish inconsideration (and I would expect the same from the other party), just vote and speak your mind like an adult.
“The courts are overwelmingly packed by judges placed by the conservative administrations.” Viewpoint makes a LOT of difference, I guess. I was thinking they are packed with leftist extremists, myself.
“…with the government 100% controlled by one party.” By this, your own definition, it is safe to conclude that Washington state is 100% controlled by one party also. There is no difference that I can see. What do you have to say on that? Do you agree or is that somehow different?
Is that answer intelligent enough for you? Why not?–in 100 words or less.
jpgee @ 256–I could only assume, since you did not specify. I had a 50/50 chance and took it.
Shawn @ 257–“Religion ………….Why do people get so preachy about it?” This is like asking why politics heats people up, I guess. Can you discuss religion without being accused of being preachy? I hope so. If you thought I was guilty of that, I am sorry. My intent was to show that science and religion need not be mutually exclusive, but could support one anothers’ claims. I think I did that well enough, though the formatting demon keeps biting me in the butt. I am willing to discuss intelligently anything I am familiar with and listen and learn if I am not. But I was not being preachy–a bit heavy-handed in my response, yes, because I thought a rapid-fire response was deserved and would also be concise, if not impressive. I also wanted to show that just because aman says he has faith in God does not make him a simpleton and a blind follower. I take it seriously and continue to challenge my OWN belief system all these years. I expect others to do the same and I expect to be ready with a satisfactory answer when questioned, that is all.
Shawn @ 258–I have been impressed by your comments on American history thus far. Keep up the good work. Accuracy in this respect is vital and I am glad you think so too.
Shawn @ 257–“I use my own name because I stand behind my words. I cannot be ‘outed’ because I am already out.” I admire that approach and attempted to do the same thing here initially. All I got was lambasted. Admittedly, I was a bit more venomous and have decided to take a more mature approach since then. But the fact is that if anyone is interested, they can write me at the link and ask anything they want. I will be respectful and intelligent with them and will ask the same in return.
Stop the whistling, answer acceptible. I will try to find where I read the statistics on judge appointments. But it was basically that in the past 36 years there have been 12 years of a Democratic President and 24 years of Republicans. The percentages of Republican appointees vs. Democratic appointees was about 3-1. I will keep searching….good night
Shawn @ 258
Indeed, I’ve no doubt that religious persecution in Europe as well as in the Colonies had a strong influence by the time things filtered down to the first amendment. But, the end result was framed with respect to individual rights.
“Our founding fathers rightly decided to frame a secular government separate from any church, not to protect the state from the church, but to protect the church from the state.”
From an individual-rights perspective, there is no difference between protecting the church from state and protecting the state from church. A state religion, limits freedom “in matters of conscience,” resulting in a corrupt government. A government sanctioned church becomes a coercive tool for the government, which corrupts the church.
DJ @ 265–Well said.
jpgee @ 264–“…in the past 36 years there have been 12 years of a Democratic President and 24 years of Republicans.” I think that in the 40 or so years that the Dems ruled by majority previously, there were alot of judges put in place that STILL reside in our system. By this I mean not just the Supreme Court, but the legal system as a whole. Regarding the Supreme Court of the US, though, I see problems when Ruth Bader Ginsburg won’t recuse herself from hearing certain things that are a conflict of interest–she was , if I recall correctly, chief council for the ACLU at one time. I would expect the same wisdom in recusing oneself to come from ANY judge, regardless of leanings.
Hi; Shawn’s wife again. All I would like to say is my Goddess is your God’s mother. Thank you.
@ 267–And what evidence do you offer for that claim?
By the way, I believe if we have a father in heaven, there must be a mother, also–so you can’t rattle me that easily. And I accept that the Bible says Adam was a son of God and as Adams’ literal offspring we would then be descended from divinity ourselves. That will likely cause a stir, but it is scriptural.
Mythology, which means true stories of Goddesses and Gods, along with their rules for living; their instructions for making life and death work; and how to achieve nirvana/heaven/enlightenment. Most mythologies speak of the original diety on earth, who was Chaos, a Goddess. She, and all of her aspects, has been worshipped since a time we cannot even imagine. Her consort and son, the God, came later. She (and he) were worshipped before there were any “specific” dieties. She is older the Yahweh, much older.
In Genesis, at least in the Hebrew, the Elohim (plural) were the creators; the Elohim seemed to have been both female and male. Yahweh appears a little bit later. In Exodus, it is Aarons rod (a very pagan piece of equipment, as he had been a Goddess worshipper) that is struck on the floor to begin the spiritual war between the Hebrews and the Egyptians. In the New Testament, in Greek, the Holy Spirit is referred to in the female gender.
Goddess was the first recognized deity, and all others are her children, even that minor Assyrian storm diety, Yahweh.
This is only a nutshell version of what most mythologies preach. For all the nitty-gritty, books wouls have to be read and understood. I think you are a smart guy “Stop the whistling”, and deserve to know, the Bible is not the only mythology in the world, and not the only truth. You, too, are the Goddess’s child.
“Mythology, which means true stories of Goddesses and Gods,”–Now there is an oxymoron if ever there was one. And I would guess that primitive people (Not the age in which they lived, but referring to their development and BS detection factors) would have spoken of chaos so often that they BEGAN to deify the concept, not an entity. Human nature is still human nature and superstition will always be with us. Now, a God that speaks back when spoken to….
Stop the whistling @261,
You use well thought out discussion; please disregard any ‘preachy’ remarks I level against the rabble.
Stop the whistling @271,
My wifes Goddesses speak to her on a daily basis, so I’m not sure what your last remark meant. Please explain this oxymoron you mention.
Personally, I believe in spirits but not in dieties. I feel that people, places, thing, and times all have spirits associated with them yet none of these are in charge. The spirits I speak of are most like the Japanese Shinto ‘Kami’ or place spirits. There was no intellegent design, just spirit.
Stop the whistling @271,
Shawn’s wife again. Yes, I speak to Goddess, and she speaks right back to me, just as your Yahweh or the Christ does with you, on a daily basis, just as Shawn says. As for myth and truth being an oxymoron, the ancient Greeks, from whom we got the word (they got it from ths Sanscrit), believed that myth was the story of Goddesses and Gods, and the word meant that.
As the years went by, and new religions like Judaism and Christianity came into being in Europe and the Middle East, the word began to mean “lies”, because the myths they heard (and knew) did not match those of the new religions. When I say the Bible is (mostly) myth, I say that meaning it is an account of Jewish and Christian diety, assuming they have only one, not the lies as you are insinuating my myths are. “The Gods of the old religion become the demons of the new” tends to be a true thing (except in India, where they accept any religion, as long as it doesn’t hurt the others).
My Goddess has become one of your demons. Too bad, you’d like her.
a little late for this thread…but the current doonesberry cartoons are a riot. Poor Mr. DeLay
http://www.doonesbury.com/stri.....e=20050418
Shawn @ 272–Thanks Shawn. I hope we get to meet in person someday–BBQ a savred cow or something (grin) and talk face to face.
Well, the Bible actually predicted the west turning to the religious teachings of the east as they fell away from truth, but that is another thing…. By oxymoron I meant the use of the word myths and truth in the same sentence (I did NOT say lies, nor mean to imply it. I simply take myth to be traditions and fable, philosophies of men and conjecture mixed together. The result is much like the hodge-podge called modern Christianity. Personally I communicate with a God that has NOT closed the heavens or discontinued reveation to those who seek him. I have heard his voice and seen him as well. As to my comment, there was no accusation of lying. Nothing personal.)
Oh, the comment @ 226 was supposed to say SACRED cow–typo. Fingers stuttered.
Shawn, I believe in spirits also–I just do not trust all spirits that are in the world. The are malevolent ones that will deceive if we let them. There are good ones, but they do not interfere often in the affairs of men. I have had experiences with the bad ones (until I learned their nature and how to repel them) that would curl your hair (if you have any).
jpgee @ 275–I have a sense of humor, but THIS…? Scraping the barrel. I have seen better attacks on Republicans from this blog.
Is it something I said?