Goldy promised the attorney who was demanding that we take down a post ridiculing her that he wouldn’t reveal her identity. I did not make that same promise.
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Margaret Dore is a Bore! Calvin Borel is far more interesting than her — he made it two in a row today by winning the Preakness on Rachel Alexandra; the horse he rode to victory in the Derby, Mine That Bird, was second by half a length. No Triple Crown this year.
@1 I’m probably gonna get sued now.
Major ups to Jenny Durkan, next US attorney for WA!!
It used to be the adage to not fight newspapers that buy ink by the barrel.
Now it’s don’t fight a blog that streams bytes by the giga load.
Being overly generous with my suppositions–her legal brief reads as though she printed out some other file on her desktop: an opinion editorial piece she was preparing for some future release.
stillbentover loves to fart a link or two a day from PMSNBC. Curiously he didn’t fart out this one and we all know why…
Notice the pro-babydeath libtards and their OMG statements. Another TDF!
Still no thread about lying vile cunt Nancy Pelosi….we’re waiting assholes. C’mon, spin it!
@7
Keep waiting for that one. People who actually understand what’s going on with the torture investigations aren’t getting distracted by the noise around Pelosi. Or the photos. We care that our government was torturing people to conjure up a justification to go to war.
If you ever decide to be a real patriot one day Mark1, you’ll start to figure that stuff out.
Only a wingnut could possibly try to take the lying, cheating, and criminal wrongdoing of the Bushies in destroying our values and our moral standing around the world while the Constitution was shredded by the actions of the Bushies, and then turn it into an attack on Pelosi based on what she did or did not remember of what they thought to share with the Congress about their criminal acts. Gee, if you fucktards really want to start an investigation I am all for it. Start with Rummy and Darth cheney. John Yoo should be in jail and instead is now paid columnist? He should be in front of a war crimes tribunal.
Hey while you are at it, keep Dick out there as your spokesman. Now at a whopping 18% approval. Great spokesman for a new party! You guys are geniuses.
Lee — what exactly did you do to defame Margaret Dore? I can see that see probably didn’t like being called a “fringe lunatic”. Personally, I would not call her that. But it is clearly a statement of opinion, and not defamation.
It was a great week for the Democrats. The country now knows for sure that the Bush regime designed, approved, and executed torture for political gain. The GOP’s numbers continue to fall – as if that’s hardly even possible…the country has decided that the Democrats are the right choice and all is right with the world. We even got that traitor Karl Rove under oath. Perjury here we come!
1:
But what if Borel wins the Belmont on Rachel Alexandra? That’d be the oddest Triple Crown in history. One thing’s for sure, though: This has been the weirdest Triple Crown in quite a while.
Lee,
Can’t you do better than your comments over at Effin Unsound?
You give a (mostly) rational rebuttal of Attny Dorne’s position on I 1000 than somehow inveigle me? Sad.
If, as you claim, her brief in Montana is obsessed with concern about murder, I pretty much agree with you. This is pushing at the edges of rational concern.
Are you pleased with how your legislation is being enacted here? It seems to me that having worked to get this in place, you would taske more interest in how it is implemented.
Many of my concerns remain. As I expected, very few WA physicians appear willing to use this option. Havinf a few pro-suicide docs doing this for patients they do not know well, is not very good.
While I think Dorne’s worries abiout murder are over the top, She is correct that the way the bill is worded, it would be nearly impossible to prove that some nasty person had misused the law to commit murder. There are also significant worries that the bill may prevent ME’s from accurately defining cause of death for public health and scientific purposes. There may also be issues I was unaware of because of the choice of drugs in the cocktail.
I-1000, unfortunately also did not set aside funds to cover regulatory and compliance costs. These may be quite high given the small number of expected users of the option.
My biggest concern is that the bill will be misused by healthcare providers anxious to save costs. As you must also know, there has been an episode of an insurance provider in Oregon raising the financial issue implicit on I-1000. Public outrage rightly scuttled that but the law remains with no prohibition of health care providers encouraging the suicide option as a way to save the costs of terminal care. Very similar issues of societal misuse may be arising , not yet in Oregon, but in England and Germany where therapeutic decisions are already subject to cost benefit analysis. One of the major issues that will face the healthcare reformers will be whether the US adopts similar laws.
Finally, the population with the greatest need for this choice, that is those undergoing extreme misery due to protracted non-lethal disease, remain unserved.
Oddly, I suspect you and I would be on the same side of that issue, people who face interminable suffering should be free to choose tom end their lives in a dignified manner.
@10
Lee — what exactly did you do to defame Margaret Dore? I can see that see probably didn’t like being called a “fringe lunatic”. Personally, I would not call her that. But it is clearly a statement of opinion, and not defamation.
You’ll have to ask her, she re-iterated her demand to Goldy again today. I have no idea.
If she doesn’t like being called a “fringe lunatic”, then she should probably stop being a fringe lunatic.
There once was an attorney called Dore,
Who was a frightful bore;
From which we surmise
It’ll come as no surprise
If she didn’t vote for Gore.
Voting Republican should be a criminal offense.
Earthworms have better sex than Republicans.
The only thing Republicans are good for is fill dirt.
Let’s see someone make a defamation claim out of 16, 17, and/or 18. Truth is a defense, you know.
Roger, Richard, and others with legal cred …
I suspect this si the post Lee is referring to:
http://horsesass.org/?p=6045
While Lee does make strong statements, nothing there is defamtory .. at elast as my non legal eyes would have it.
@20
Nice detective work, SJ! It’s only linked from the EffU post that you’ve already commented on. How on earth did you decipher that?!?
Moron.
Lee,
I was not sure from EFFY post was the same message she griped abotu so I just did a search and that was the only relevant HA post I found.
Was this really what upset her?
I have met her once and she did seem to have a strange attachment to the murder issue. It does seem to me that now that the thing is pased everyone should be working to make it more useful than the Oregon bill.
@22
Was this really what upset her?
Yes.
I have met her once and she did seem to have a strange attachment to the murder issue. It does seem to me that now that the thing is pased everyone should be working to make it more useful than the Oregon bill.
That’s what we’ve been doing. When you stop pretending that we’re not, we’ll start taking you seriously.
You know when the leftist pinheads at Slate start asking questions on the Pelosi/CIA affair, things are smelling too good for the libtards.
Well, well, well – I guess the right wing is REALLY in trouble – they’ve stopped giving money to the faaaaaar right nutjobs!
Focus on the Family, a Colorado-based evangelical group led by the semi-retired James C. Dobson, recently cut more than 200 jobs!
YEAH! 200 right wing crazies walking the streets looking for work – now THAT is justice!
@23 Lee
Are efforts being made to make DWD/WA work better hear than in Oregon?
@20 I would argue that holding oneself out as a professional expert on a legal topic related to a controversial issue of public policy, then arguing a partisan point of view on the policy issue as a guest editorialist in a major daily newspaper, brings one within the “public figure” doctrine of Times v. Sullivan, in which case one has to prove “actual malice” to establish a claim for defamation.
In short, when you start behaving like a politician instead of a lawyer, you should expect to be treated like one. Of course, everyone knows what we do to politicians and other partisans on this blog … hehehe …
Are efforts being made to make DWD/WA work better hear than in Oregon?
Yes, there’s an organization I communicate with that works to improve the way doctor’s work with the bill in both states.
I suppose those who are against Death with Dignity really have some perverse desire to die painful and lingering deaths.
Fine – just don’t get in the way of others who feel that dying a horribly painful and drawn-out death isn’t for them.
@8 Stoner Lee,
‘Noise‘ around Pelosi? Nice down-play. I expected that. I understand what’s going on with this B.S. perfectly, thank you. The issue is that she lied and is a hypocrit, and now is trying (in the typical Democratic way) to shift focus and blame, all the while taking no responsibility whatsoever. How can you even attempt to defend the undefendable? Just admit that she fucked up, got caught, and now will pay the price and move on. As far as patriotism goes, you my friend are not in a position to question mine. Go sit on your bong. I’m heading out to enjoy this beautiful sunny day.
@30
The issue is that she lied and is a hypocrit, and now is trying (in the typical Democratic way) to shift focus and blame, all the while taking no responsibility whatsoever.
No, dumbass. The primary focus should be the Bush Administration officials who authorized torture and who are now lying and trying to shift the focus and blame to spineless Democrats like Pelosi who chose not to rock the boat and then got caught lying about it.
When you understand that, you can start talking about patriotism. For now, you’re working to help the people who’ve been undermining the security of the United States. That’s the opposite of patriotism.
Even axelrod is mocking miss kalifornia for her views on gay marriage.
Of course the npr host laughed.
Of course the npr host didn’t ask about obama and his religious objection to gay marriage.
npr partisan hosted show
DAVID AXELROD, WHITE HOUSE SENIOR ADVISOR: I only, I only got called in for the final three on the dog.
SAGAL: Really?
AXELROD: I wasn’t there at the beginning of the process.
SAGAL: Seriously, were you consulted?
AXELROD: I was not consulted.
SAGAL: Really?
AXELROD: I was not consulted.
SAGAL: Really?
AXELROD: Yeah.
UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: But who were the other two? Were there really two others?
AXELROD: One was Miss California.
(Audience applause and laughter)
The point is if she thought it was wrong, she should have spoken up in the beginning, not when public opinion turned against the war.
Exactly like all those democrats lying about saddam having WMDs and working with terrorists.
How bush-like.
@ 30 and 31
First, there are two reasons to believe that Pelosi is telling the truth on this:
1) She favors an investigation. The folks who are calling her a liar do not; and
2) Former Sen. Bob Graham backs her up, and he has the documentation to prove it.
Second, all the Republican whinging about Pelosi is itself a deflection away from the mounting evidence that Cheney ordered torture, and that he did so outside the ticking time bomb scenario endorsed by the OLC memos.
So, yeah. Let’s have an investigation. And, if it turns out that Pelosi is lying, I’m more than happy to call for her resignation. But, Republicans also have to acknowledge that there is no way that Pelosi did anything wrong if the Bush Administration is not culpable in ordering torture.
@33
The point is if she thought it was wrong, she should have spoken up in the beginning, not when public opinion turned against the war.
I agree.
Exactly like all those democrats lying about saddam having WMDs and working with terrorists.
Absolutely.
The point here is that what Mark1 is doing is akin to letting murderers get off because he was more concerned with a person who knew about the murders but didn’t speak up.
How bush-like.
If I’m distorting the meaning of patriotism (the way Bush was), point it out. That’s what we did when Bush improperly used patriotism as a cudgel. If I’m doing the same thing, explain why.
Because you are defining what patriotism is.
Biden said patriotism was paying taxes, does that mean the people obama has picked for his administration aren’t patriotic?
Just remember – it’s the BUSH regime that conceived, planned and executed torture. Just remember they did it for political gains. Just remember they did it illegally. Just remember they made our country less safe when they did it. And just remember any and all discussions about Nancy Pelosi in this regard are a lame attempt by an impotent party (GOP) to deflect the attention of the public on the fact that GEORGE BUSH, WHATADICK CHENEY and their clan are torturers.
Sorry I haven’t been around lately. I’m busy inciting fear and anger over Link in another comment section.
@30 “The issue is that she lied and is a hypocrit”
Wrong, the issue is that Republicans are immoral criminal bastards who violated international treaties and U.S. laws when they tortured and murdered innocent people; and by the way, they lied about it.
You shitheads probably are lying about Pelosi, too, but in any case, what she knew is irrelevant. If she did know, it was classified, and she couldn’t say anything.
As trolls go, Mark1 is no better or worse than any of the wingfuckers who hang out here, but a post like that one almost makes you want to spit in his face. Were these people raised in caves by wolves? They’re totally unprincipled and have no moral compass whatsoever.
The truth is dems are,immoral, tax dodgers, draft dodgers,democratic party pocket liners,enemy embracers, and torture Americans in NYC, btw they lie about it. violate the laws of U.S to protect U.S.citizens rights of protection under the constitution,they are sworn to defend .Allowing the Murder of innocent children and future taxpayers (through abortion)And use our money to do it.
As far as san fran nan she is just an old person who is out of touch, she did not have notification with that cia agency, no cigar for pusslosi.
And just remember it is the Olbahma regime, that just sent my son into afghanistan, straight from Camp Victory iraq, so this must be his war of choice, i am sure they will just lay down thier weapons because they love and respect oblahma so much.
Lee ..
I would like tom know what is happening … can you post a link?
Ms. Prejean, with her fake tits (purchased by “the donald”) and the marvin with his fake “consevatism” and fakey-er “outrage” DESERVE to be mocked.
As much as possible…
…good times!!
@43
I would like tom know what is happening … can you post a link?
Compassion & Choices is an organization that works to ensure that the law works for both patients and health facilities. This is their website. I posted here about some of the outreach they’ve been doing to the medical community.
Here’s what you wrote in the comments of that post:
That’s exactly what my post was about, yet for some reason you still wrote this. Why? Did you write that to be an asshole? Did you write it because you’re brain dead?
What explanation makes sense at this point? You keep insisting that you’re an interested observer who simply wants a law that works, but every single comment you leave concerning this topic clearly proves otherwise. You’re only interested in being an obnoxious ass.
You want your opinion to be taken seriously? Stop being an asshole.
Obama is cleaning the clock of the anti-abortion protesters right now.
http://www.abort73.com/# In the long run there will be a new clock cleaning…….2010 tick tick tock
…only in your wettest of wet dreams, dumbass.
The truth is – Publicans are, immoral, tax dodgers, draft dodgers, weapons and oil company pocket liners, enemy embracers, and torturers, btw they lie about it. violate the laws of U.S constitution, they are sworn to defend. Allowing the Murder of innocent children in Iraq and use our money to do it.
As far as WHATADICK Cheney – the new GOP spokesman – he is just an old person who is out of touch, he lied about torture and then told America “so what.” America said “fuck you” in return and voted the liars, crooks and cowards of the GOP out on their ass.
@45 ..
Tx for the link. I will look at it.
As for your name calling, you might look again at my response to your post. The issues I raised are constructive and are part of the effort now underway in our hospital.
Lee ..
from an article cited on the website:
*
It’s odd to learn the voter-approved Death With Dignity Law that took effect last month has yet to have a path to fulfillment in our community. ….
Our law is modeled after a similar one in Oregon, which has been in place for 11 years. Fifty-nine doctors there prescribed the life-ending drugs to 88 people last year, though not all the patients took the poison.
….
But so far, there’s no way to take advantage of the law in the Tri-Cities.
These are exactly the sort of problems I suggested would occur in WA given the way the law has functioned in Oregon and the way WA’s law was written.
The author, a proponent of I-1000, blames the local health system for not being prepared but these agencies do not really have the power to change the law or convince physicians that the practice, as written, is ethical. Based ion the discussion I attended here, there are serious and unresolved ethical and legal issues for a physician. For example, it is nto at lal clear how a physician who supports I-1000 but does not know this patient can write a prescription that meets the laws requirements in reagrd to diagn9sis of depression or family rights. The idea of the government intervening in the pathologist’s decision as to cause of death is also not a good idea.
These are real issues and may require amending the law to make DwD more available.
Rujax! spews:
47. WatchmanOnTheWall spews:
http://www.abort73.com/# In the long run there will be a new clock cleaning…….2010 tick tick tock
05/17/2009 at 12:47 pm
…only in your wettest of wet dreams, dumbass
tick tock tick tock tick tock,I wouldn’t worry about the ones that are verbal and comment, but the voice of millions are talking today they cry for justice, as only the innocent can….. tick tock tick tock
@51
These are exactly the sort of problems I suggested would occur in WA given the way the law has functioned in Oregon and the way WA’s law was written.
And these were exactly the kinds of problems I expected after the law took effect. What’s your point?
@51
The author, a proponent of I-1000, blames the local health system for not being prepared but these agencies do not really have the power to change the law or convince physicians that the practice, as written, is ethical.
They don’t, nor did many proponents of I-1000 argue that they should.
Based ion the discussion I attended here, there are serious and unresolved ethical and legal issues for a physician.
Please elaborate. There have not been any legal issues for doctors in Oregon, so you’ll have to explain what it is you’re talking about.
For example, it is nto at lal clear how a physician who supports I-1000 but does not know this patient can write a prescription that meets the laws requirements in reagrd to diagn9sis of depression or family rights.
This is something that doctors should certainly discuss to ensure that they’re not undermining the safeguards.
The idea of the government intervening in the pathologist’s decision as to cause of death is also not a good idea.
If an individual has a terminal illness and decides to take the medication authorized by a doctor to control the time and place of their final hour, the terminal illness should be listed as the cause of death.
These are real issues and may require amending the law to make DwD more available.
I agree, but the reason that we have all of these problems is because morons like you spent all of last year attacking people like me, but not people like Margaret Dore. You want to know why we don’t have better laws in this arena? Because people like you don’t understand the political realities involved.
ByeByeGOP spews:
The truth is – democrats are, immoral, tax dodgers, draft dodgers, union and big company pocket liners, enemy embracers, and torturers of nyc citizens, btw they lie about it. violate the laws of U.S constitution, they are sworn to defend. Allowing the Murder of innocent children in USA and use our money to do it.They allow people like myself to exibit violence towards those that oppose them, but then i expect them to bow to me because i am nothing but a narcicist and need praise for myself self centered opinion, really i am not even a good nasty smell of a real piece of shit i am just a little turd that floats around HA, Just saying i am nothing and when the big flush comes, I will still just be a swirling turd along with all of my narcicist buddies in the cesspool of life.
@51
To give a better analogy, SJ, you’re like one of the people who argues against marijuana decriminalization because marijuana legalization is the better way to go.
If that doesn’t make sense, ask someone smarter than you to explain it to you.
Lwee,
I posted at kenbgth before on the impressive meeting I attended at UW on the issues that need to be addressed.
If you really care, I will find you a link.
As for the idea that one should vote for badly written laws is not rational. Bad law is, well bad law. Perhaps if a better law had passed in Oregon, there would be better use of this option there now.
BTW, the “cause of death” is a scientific term. Arguing that the state can make a law defining scientific terms is something I usually expect to see from of the religious right.
On a more constructive level, suppose that very few physicians are willing to do this and those that are do not know the patients well enough to fulfill the law’s psychiatric rfequirements. Is it OK for referral physicians to make this decision ofr should we find better ways to be sure that people meet the criteria?
@57
I posted at kenbgth before on the impressive meeting I attended at UW on the issues that need to be addressed.
If you really care, I will find you a link.
No, I don’t care. I care a lot about this law and how it will work in this state. But I don’t care at all about your opinion. You’ve proven yourself time and time again to be unable to understand this issue. And what’s worse is that when people point out to you to that you don’t understand the issue, you resort to lying. That’s inexcusable.
As for the idea that one should vote for badly written laws is not rational.
It’s not a badly written law. I’ve never said that ever.
Perhaps if a better law had passed in Oregon, there would be better use of this option there now.
And if that better law had been put in front of the voters, it’s possible that it wouldn’t have passed. But the law that currently exists in Oregon has been very successful – and that success has been extensively documented. Your attempts to claim otherwise are nothing more than lies.
BTW, the “cause of death” is a scientific term. Arguing that the state can make a law defining scientific terms is something I usually expect to see from of the religious right.
If I’m not mistaken, when a person is shot and bleeds to death, their “cause of death” is listed as homicide, which is a legal term, rather than “bled to death”. Is that because of a religious right conspiracy?
On a more constructive level, suppose that very few physicians are willing to do this and those that are do not know the patients well enough to fulfill the law’s psychiatric rfequirements. Is it OK for referral physicians to make this decision ofr should we find better ways to be sure that people meet the criteria?
I believe that if a participating doctor is unsure, he should have the option to consult with the referring physician for an opinion, but it should not be required. Even knowing that an individual with such limited intellectual abilities such as yourself can become a doctor, I still trust doctors to be able to certify whether a person is of sound mind to make this decision for themselves.
The truth is – Publicans are, immoral, tax dodgers, draft dodgers, weapons and oil company pocket liners, enemy embracers, and torturers, btw they lie about it. violate the laws of U.S constitution, they are sworn to defend. Allowing the Murder of innocent children in Iraq and use our money to do it.
As far as WHATADICK Cheney – the new GOP spokesman – he is just an old person who is out of touch, he lied about torture and then told America “so what.” America said “fuck you” in return and voted the liars, crooks and cowards of the GOP out on their ass.
I don’t suppose the “dumbass on the wall” (Humpty-Dumpty???) would care to elucidate…I really need a good laff right about now.
Well Lee, it does seem one of us resorts to invective. That is not usually evidence of a sound argument.
As for specifics …. I am not sure how the courts define homicide but the scientific diagnosis in the case of death by bullet wound would be just that. The same should be true of someone ingesting lethal cocktail, regardless of why they drank the draught. What gain is there is requiring a pathologist to NOT cite voluntary suicide as a cause of death if that is a legal choice?
As in the article I cited, many physicians, possibly most, are uncomfortable with the requirements of this law.
It is NOT easy to decide that somneone has “six months to live.” BTAre you comfortable with the idea of patients shopping for some doc who is willing to agree that the patient has 6 mo?
As for “sound mind” … that is not part of the law. The law described depression, a diagnosis that can take a trained shrink a lot of time to diagnose. The diagnosis is obviously difficult when the physician does not know the patient and even she is threatened with a terminal disease.
As for your “trust” that “doctors (are) able to certify whether a person is of sound mind to make this decision for themselves” … somehow I doubt that you would stand by while some doc filled out papers to commit you to a mental hospital .. as used to be the law.
Anyhow, we have both been here before. I do hope that the I-1000 supporters work with the medical system to refine this law so we can do a better job.
Hope all is well with your youngster! FWIW, I suspect you will be a good dad.
Here’s one that’d get Piper pissed off:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200.....ontroversy
jesus!!! Good on those guys! I was at the U-Dist street fair and every other guy was wearing one of those stupid things. yukkkk.
http://www.powerlineblog.com/a.....023580.php
Just an interesting tid bit, acorn back the news.
amen!