If it’s Friday, it must be time for another open thread. Please scoop your poop.
Can’t Bring Yourself to Type the Word “Ass”?
Eager to share our brilliant political commentary and blunt media criticism, but too genteel to link to horsesass.org? Well, good news, ladies: we also answer to HASeattle.com, because, you know, whatever. You're welcome!
Governor Gregoire…you cannot scoop any more poop than that Sorry to have filled the litterbox so soon….
chuckie @ 1 with that amount of undiluted ‘sh*t’ that you spew here, no wonder the litterbox is overflowing…..maybe you should change your diet……or get a life
From: Bill Varney [mailto:bvarney@co.grant.wa.us]
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 4:19 PM
To: martinringhofer@aol.com
Subject: RE: Voter Request – Cleaning up the voter file
Dear Martin
I am responding to your request that I submit a file of Grant County’s voter registration list to the INS and the IRS for them to compare to their data base and identify non citizens who are registered to vote.
The Public Records Act allows you to request copies of public records, but does not give you the ability to require me to submit our registered voter data base to another agency.
This issue is being considered by the State Legislature and there are some proposed bills being considered.
I have discussed this with the Secretary of State’s Office and was informed that they contacted the INS several years ago regarding this issue and got nowhere with them.
I understand there is a law requiring the INS to verify or ascertain the citizenship or immigration status of any individual but it doesn’t say that we can send a large data base for comparison.
As you probably know, the state is developing a statewide voter registration system.
I was told that the state will probably be contacting the INS after the system is up and running and discussing this issue with them again.
I think it is better to have the Secretary of State’s office deal with the INS for the entire state than have individual counties contacting the INS.
I also want to see the outcome of any bills that may be passed by the legislature during this session.
Bill Varney
Grant County Auditor
PO Box 37
Ephrata, WA 98823
509-754-2011 ext. 333
ins will do nothing, as long as there is a hands off policy in D.C.
i wrote them, called them, on several houses being used to move illegals into the u.s.
illegals use these houses to live in long enough to have a child. With their american born “hostage” they now cannot be deported.
I have watched this happen for 15 years, and cannot generate any interest through proper channels.
Then there are the social security numbers currently being used by illegals.
The fund associated with these stolen numbers, and illegals, currently contains 475-500 billion dollars.
The fed has no plans to alert the registered owners of the numbers being used illegally.
I dont see how you will get them to move on a voter list, given all the resistence at the federal level to identify illegal aliens.
Wa. state, is spending millions of dollars annually, to build camps to house illegal aliens, all over eastern washington.
Frustrating to watch them talk budgets, while supporting all the free healthcare, housing, and services, given to people that have broken the law, and beaten the system apparently.
http://www.nypost.com/postopin...../41040.htm
SECOND-RATE SCIENCE
By ELIZABETH M. WHELAN
——————————————————————————–
March 14, 2005 — ENVIRONMENTAL activists this week brought the credibility of the noble science of epidemiology (the study of the cause of human disease) to another low.
The Air Resources Board of the California EPA declared that exposure to second-hand smoke upped a woman’s risk of breast cancer. Nevermind that the “study” was preliminary and was neither peer reviewed nor published.
The national media picked up its scary conclusions in a generally uncritical manner, most scientists remained silent on the travesty and the California regulatory exorcists who are committed to removing all “toxins” from the air, pondered even more legislation to “protect” women from breast cancer by eliminating exposure to second-hand smoke.
But there is no persuasive evidence that smoking, no less second-hand exposures, cause breast cancer. In fact, there is some evidence that women who smoke may have a reduced risk of breast cancer given that smoking reduces the body’s natural estrogen levels. Commonsense suggests that if a woman smoking a pack a day is not at increased risk of breast cancer, then a nonsmoking woman transiently exposed to second-hand smoke would not be either.
Indeed, why do anti-smoking advocates need to exaggerate their claims when there is already overwhelming scientific evidence of the dangers of smoking? Because the anti-smoking movement is driven by a zeal to regulate cigarette smoking out of existence and the ends justify the means.
They seem unaware that their baseless health claims threaten the acceptance and credibility of legitimate public health initiatives as facts and hype get tangled.
Let’s not give the tobacco industry fertile grounds for claiming all smoking and health claims are based on junk science.
Dr. Elizabeth M. Whelan is president, American Council on Science and Health.
I have two messages for voters and legislators. To the rational who can think this entire smoking ban issue through and see all the issues, I say thanks. To those that are so stubborn, bull headed and frankly believe the end justifies the means maybe your line of work or business venture will be next on the list of things that the government must supposedly protect us from. I say supposedly because it’s clear those in favor of a smoking ban only SUPPORT BANNING THE ACT OF SMOKING at tax paying businesses BUT NOT A BAN ON BUYING TABACCO OR THE BANNING OF SMOKING ON TRIBAL ALL LANDS
Initiative 901 is a lie. I say a lie because the supposed statewide ban is nothing of the sorts and supporters know it. IT MERELY DESINATES ALL TRIBAL LANDS, ALL BUSINESSES ON TRIBAL LAND AND ANY BUILT IN THE FUTURE AS DESIGNATED SMOKING AREAS ALL ACROSS THE STATE. (SEE MAP BELOW)
I would like to ask those legislators who have tribal land near or within their districts what they’re going to tell their constituents and business owners when tribal leaders start building or allow to be built on their reservations businesses which are exempt from any smoking ban. Businesses that can continue to allow adults to smoke when almost right across the street in some cases another business owner will be fined or closed down for allowing his customers.
Say closing down can’t happen or seems to extreme? All any local health Department has to do is pull the permit to serve food and any bar, tavern, mini casino or restaurant is out of business. It’s that simple and who’s behind all the smoking bans?
Anyone involved in real estate want to guess the how much the value of tribal lands will soar after if a ban goes into effect as businesses owners gladly pay huge sums to build or lease buildings on tribal lands which would be exempt from any smoking ban? Cities like Auburn, Kent, Fife, Tacoma, Marysville, Everett to name a few will be hit hard because of exempt tribal facilities within their boundaries or minutes away.
This minority of smokers collectively pay over 450 million to our state just in taxes on cigarettes. This doesn’t count the taxes the businesses they frequent pay and the subsequent sales tax on food and alcohol that are paid by smokers. Better also consider the hundreds of employees who rely on tips for a substantial amount of their total pay because these will be the first to lose big time and many of these people are single mothers. Better get ready to watch unemployment and welfare payments go up.
Backers of I-901 want to get rid of smokers but voters will wise up and start asking backers of I-901 who is going to make up the hundreds of millions this minority of smokers pay each year when smokers starts spending their money at non taxed tribal businesses which are free to continue to allow smoking someone is going to have to make up the shortfall.
Many smokers, fed up with the other 80% telling them they’re not welcomed anywhere will buy their cigarettes and spend their money at non tax paying tribal casinos, restaurants, bars or any other business that is on tribal lands and thus exempt from our laws.
Besides, since 80% of businesses are already smoke free isn’t that enough? Are we to believe that with only 20% of all businesses still allowing smoking that there is a problem at all. The reason 20% still allow smoking is because about 20% of us still smoke and the fact is the vast majority of employees in these businesses are smokers themselves so these employees and customers choose to work and patronize these places. If they didn’t, they’d be non-smoking too or they’d close down. It’s called the economic law of supply and demand.
Backers of I-901 can despise smokers all they want but before you and the voters slam the door in every smokers face and tell them to go away you better figure out how to make up a big chunk of the taxes that will go to the tribes who will be laughing all the way to the bank.
Smokers are human like each of us so why is it so hard for some to figure out that many smokers will feel resentment and thus will have no problem spending their disposable income at tribal facilities that will welcome them and their smoking habit.
Finally, for what it’s worth I’ve been a non smoker since 1987.
Chuck @1 – Nice way to start this out – straight to the point, humorous, and quite truthful. Can’t get any better than that.
Let anybody smoker anywhere they feel like it. If they are bannedfrom smoking there, wherever it is, go smoke somewhere else.. End of story. WHO cares what these political hacks have to say: left or right. F*&** them! I don’t smoke but I could care less where anybody smokes.
Chuck @ 1–
That’s a big 10-4 good buddy.
Gregoire’s smoke-and-mirrors lay-off of 1,000 unseless State Managers makes one question why Gary Locke didn’t act on this?
I want a list of NAMES of the 1,000 lay-offs.
Lets’ watch the new hires then too.
This is the ultimate shell game.
People will retire and they will be replace in other positions.
I want to know what the State FTE’s is at currently and then let’s measure Gregoire’s progress from that…
Oh and let’s not forget to monitor CONTRACT EMPLOYEES.
That’s part of the shell game too!
What a joke….she won’t do it…just pretend she is.
Meet your local lawmaker TODAY at a Town Hall Meeting near you.
Thanks to Evergreen Politics for posting the complete list.
Feds ‘Tap’ Rev. Al And Comptroller
New York Post, by Andy Soltis Original Article
Posted By: Dreadnought – 3/19/2005 11:28:10 AM Post Reply
A federal wiretapping investigation of political corruption in Philadelphia has turned up some surprising names with New York connections — those of the Rev. Al Sharpton and Comptroller William Thompson. The two prominent Big Apple figures were linked to a bizarre scheme by La-Van Hawkins, a Detroit fast-food king, to create a fried-chicken empire financed by millions of dollars from New York City’s pension fund.
[I’m shocked, I tell you! Shocked!! [hehe]]
[Title: Why Dems Loooooooooove “Guvment” Jobs!!!] Read on!!! If you think this is bad, you should research how much money executives in the Head Start program are making while their volunteers and teachers are making minimum wage. Head Start ”executives” here in Texas are making $200K or more, and were incensed when told that their salaries couldnt exceed $186K.
This is another Democratic workfare program for incompetent leftists. The last check on this program found that Head Start doesn’t even accomplish it’s mission in that it has no positive impact on the children’s education level–in other words, it’s a waste of taxpayer money, but continues on as government funded daycare for the lower class.
This is where our tax money is going. If they could shut down useless programs like this, we wouldn’t have a budget deficit.
The state has no jurisdiction to regulate tribal lands. That’s under federal jurisdiction. It’s up to Congress to regulate the tribes. So write your congressman already.
Should there be a minmum dna concentration to determine who qualifies as “native” american.
Maybe its time, some tribal “members” join their brothers in the big tribe, the “human race”.
[Kalifornia…….Always A Democrat State! Read on!!] Vampirism, incest, interracial polygamy ignored by mass media
Altermedia News, by David Mullenax Original Article
Posted By: Duckboy – 3/19/2005 1:24:28 PM Post Reply
FRESNO, CA: March 14, 2005 marked the anniversary of the bizarre California murders allegedly committed by self-proclaimed cultist and vampire Marcus Wesson. One year ago, law enforcement officials stumbled upon the most gruesome mass murder in Fresno, California history, which left nine people dead.
head start wasting money, just like abstinence being taught in schools. another big waste of taxpayer money from the repubs side.
Mr. Cynical @9 – You are so right. First ;aying off 1000 middle managers is not the ticket to improved efficiency. To get effienciency – we need structural improvements, not targeted sudden mass layoffs. But does anyone think she will wack jobs from her own union constiuency?? Or really look at DSHS? Or how work is actually carried out by state agencies?
“Gotta gets the guvment job”, right, Diggindude?
Diggindude@16–
If your parents had been taught abstinence, we all would have been spared reading your BS low-life!
May a horde of bureaucratic maggots attack your colon as you sleep.
cynical @ 19
id have no problem pulling your feeding tube.
Since this is an open forum and we can comment on any topic, I’d just like to mention the GOP torture experts are busy this weekend trying to prolong Terri Schiavo’s agony for another 15 years or however long they can keep her going. If this was my wife, mother, or daughter I’d tell King George to mind his own damn business. It appears that starting wars, bankrupting the treasury, and destroying Social Security isn’t enough to keep him busy. He needs to get a real job.
Don,
Just when I thought Nelson was threatening to over take you as the biggest hack here, you go and toss this crap out.
How exactly do you know she is in agony? My understanding is she is not in pain. How exactly is it you know what she would want done with her? How is it that you cannot see that she has emotions (Laughs) and visible expressions (Smiles) when her family arrives to see her? So because she cannot walk and talk her life is worthless to you. Is she just a burden to the world that should be eliminated? Who are you to judge that the quality of her life is not worth living? She may be quite happy with her life. It is unlikely she has the capacity to remember life before and doesn’t lay there thinking of the good ol days and feeling sorry for herself. If that were the case I believe she would have died “Naturally” long ago – she would have given up. She knows only the life she has now and although you would not want it it is her life, not yours.
One could argue; that her life is more worth living then yours, that she has influenced more people in a positive way then you ever will, that she has done more good for society as a whole then your existence ever will, that she brings more joy and love to her family then you do yours.
Don’s motto – if their sick or weak kill’em off.
Let me guess, You are pro-abortion but I bet you are oppossed to the death penalty. You prefer to kill off the innocent in society (Babies w/Abortion and Terri Shiavo) but those that rape and muder deserve rehabilitation and a life of cable tv, 3 meals a day and parole.
Don@21
I posted a response but it has yet to show up. Just in case it doesn’t I won’t retype the lengthy response, I’ll just summarize……your an ignorant ass.
Chris @ 22
Kiss my ass.
Don @ 24 Chris cannot kiss your ass, his head is so far up Cynicalidiots that he can barely breath
Chris @ 24
“She may be quite happy with her life.”
Are you serious? This is a joke, right?
“Let me guess, You are pro-abortion but I bet you are oppossed to the death penalty.”
You can’t get anything right, can you? Wrong on both counts. I personally oppose abortion on moral grounds but I support the death penalty in appropriate (i.e. heinous) cases.
jpgee @ 25
OMG pull his oxygen tube! No, on second thought, let him suffer. Golden rule applies here — do unto Chris as he would do unto Terri.
Chris @ 24 (continued)
There’s only one “s” in “opposed.” Why are Republicans such bad spellers?
JPGee and Don @ All – What would you do if you were in the same situation? Leave your wife? Or stay with her, have a second “common law” wife and children, and then when the settlement money arrives, demand to pull her feeding tube? Her parents have already said that they would take care of her. By removing her feeding tube, she wull ultimately die a slow, horrible, painful death. Is that what you really want?
Chris@22. Regarding Schiavo, void of emotions is what experts define her condition, stating her movements are not gestures directed at anyone. They are uncontrollable. she is not brain dead. Sure, parents hold hope and any sign is a mistaken hope. Naturally they want her life restored and cling to threads, watching every little sign, hoping the 15 year vegatative state is reversed. It is a tough call. If thinking emotionally or religiously,any ray of life will do. Thinking on the level of quality of life, allowing natural causes to take over and death may be a sterile call for other than medical experts. Sometimes our life saving efforts intervene where nature intended to leave off life. When advanced age is a factor, extra methods to revive or sustain life are gauged by a mere paper signed before. A paper being the differance, not spark of life. I did not think it was Jeb’s business, Supreme Court business nor some Senator’s business who needs to think on those killed in Iraq, the strong and husky with a quality of life ahead of them.
Zappora@21. Expert medical testimony does not rely on what someone thinks. It has been stated by the profession field of experts in all the news that her condition leaves her without pain. Meaning she feels no pain. No feelings. The center of her brain regulating that being deprived of oyygen died.
Don@27. Note what a paradox exists when not dealing with death as an inevitable or accident or murderous cause. One believer will say, it was God’s will in any of the above. Another type of believer will blame the death on Satan. Another will say the Devil reigns on earth and we are all subjective. Some other believer stands on the promises, the In God We Trust, expects the Diety to protect us from all evils of mankind. Someone else thinks the Supreme Court can reign, be it death or life. Jeb Bush believed he could reign over life and death. Now, another control freak emerges on the scene, a Republican that wants to pick up the ball and add his two cents of reigning power as Lord of all. Many many cultures celebrate death in a merry way. The Irish wake is one way. But our culture has shrouded death in black to accent the mourning of the passed away. Death in the case of the feeding tube being pulled has become a state-wide issue. Not hard to recognize the smell of a mixture of church and state; religious arguement. The value of life is still being based on old religious dogma not upgraded for modern medical facts. Back when, the lions got their share to eat. Barbaric times.
REPUBLICAN SENATOR TOM DEALY, is a “thou shalt not kill” version of the highest form of hypocricy in high places. RECALL the troops Tom. You have been party ot suppling men and woman with weapons to KILL others. Killing done in the name of ALMIGHTY self-defense is not okay then either. That is really questionable. More Republican unsound reasoning. It is called taking a LIFE. Tom thinks starving to death is not okay but killing is. Many the innocent children, men and woman whose lives have been literally ripped out from under Tom and Bush’s blessings view them as killers; the taking of lives is a taking of lives. No differance. If the ten commandments is one’s bread and breath, abide by it. Thou shalt not kill goes for Tom And G.W too.
Don@28
Never had a typo? The fact you focus on the spelling of the word as opposssssssed to the meaning is quite telling.
Chee@30
It would be intersting to know if when left alone in her room does she continue with these “uncontrollable” gestures? Smiles, Laughs. I would guess the answer to be no. These gestures are contolled responses, in my opinion.
Jpgee@25
I have yet to hear you bring substance to any debate. I don’t mind the personal stuff – my head up cynicals ass – just try to mix in some thought provoking comments as well every once in awhile.
Zapporo@29
The libs have no use for people like Terri, they can’t vote. Or maybe they can, in King County.
Chris @35 – It’s almost unbelieveable. I read the posts and they can only hurl insults because you are right on target. Maybe if they had some more moveon.org coaching, maybe something more cogent would arise, but I doubt it.
I can hardly believe JPGee’s comments considering his head hasn’t seen the light of day for decades. And Don, well Don appears to be a little low on blood sugar today. Er, everyday.
zapporo@17
If you check into it laying off 1000 middle managers in this state isnt a mass layoff…it is a pitifull joke designed to make us “feel” better. There are so many employees in this stste that 1000 managers wouldnt even make a dent in the Tacoma area alone.
Chris@35 Speaking for all Libs, you say. “Libs have no use for Terri.” Unfactual mass generalization speaks for it’s self; mere flip, unsupported by truth or fact.
Hmmm… We have the mutual support society going on here. We see Chuckie, Zapporo and Chris taking hateful ignorant and hateful digs and then high-fiving each other.
Flashback to the Future: The high-fiving R guys!
It must be comforting when your positions on the issues are so losing and bankrupt.
John@39
Our positions are banrupt? Have you seen the financial mess your buddy Gary Lock left this state?
Re: Schiavo
The firestorm this has kicked up in winger blogland is nothing short of overwhelming. No wonder the usual suspects are engaged, i.e. Dubya and DeLay.
DeLay is one especially shameless scumbag. This guy’s going to go down for his illegal money-grubbing and he thinks this is his lifeboat.
Dubya cuts short his weekend of relaxing at the ranch to help the Speaker bail water.
The high-fiving R guys:
Chuckie, Chris, Zapporo and Adriel
Can I be a high-fiving R guy too?
No WAY!
Chuckie @ 40:
LMAO! Again you demonstrate your ignorance!
Gary Locke proposed a balanced budget in the last bi-ennium without raising taxes. The gas tax went up only because he convinced the R’s that the money would at least help stop the bleeding of our crumbling road infrastructure.
Gary Locke was highly praised for his innovative management initiatives in the bureauracracy. Stuff that doesn’t make the headlines but stuff he had to do to make the government work in the face of Eymanism, a recession and budget cuts. History is going look kindly on Gary Locke’s term.
Chris Gregoire is carrying on his good work. She’s going to squeeze more efficiency out of the government by adopting Giulianis’ Zero Based Budgeting and GMAP ideas. Again she has to do this if she going to have a prayer in reforming the brain dead tax system in this state which due to political reason will have to wait until the after the 2006 elections.
chee
The evidence is clear that Libs have no use for her, they want her dead. Where is the evidence to the contrary? Of course it’s a generalization and could not possibly include all libs. The same can be said for every comment posted here, there are always exceptions. But of all those that want her to starve to death, they are all LIBS. AGAIN, Do all libs want her dead? No, but all people that want her dead are Libs.
There goes Don with his spelling bee rules again. Is that all you have Don?
Here is the real scoop, the temporary governor, Gregoire, is a Rudy Guliani fan. Did you all catch the interview in the Olympian?
Someone actually called in and asked her point blank, Is 1st Man Mike on the Gov payroll? How rude, someone please censor these subordinates from asking such invasive questions. Where is Julia Patterson when you need her.
Why didn’t someone call in and ask why she needs a full time chef on staff? Or, why did Rob McKenna dismantel her lovely lounge at the AGO that she had built? Rob found it to be a frivilous waste and turned it into an office.
Crissy is interested in herself and her needs.
did you also know that the dems in Oly are trying to get rid of teaching abstinence in the ex ed program and want to replace it with teaching contraceptives. Here comes the cucumbers. Thank God they still allow us parents to opt out. ESHB 1282 & SB 5306
Rep Shay Schual Berke baby, she is afterall a doctor. How impressive. She gave up her cardiology practice to be a state rep??? this clearly proves Michael Savage is correct, that Liberalism is a Mental Disorder. Don, can I send you my copy of this book?
Terri Schiavo is alive.
http://www.nationalreview.com/.....160848.asp
Dr Cranford is a liar and George Felos has a book to sell. Christopher Reeve was a hero right? It seems Terri outlived him.
pardon my insensitivity, but christopher reeve, was making public appearances, and promoting research, terry schiavo, is a shriveled husk, with a large portion of her brain missing.
Like comparing a human being with a bowl of tapioca.
Thursday, February 10, 2005
Are brain injured, comatose patients aware? – Using MRI scans of the brain, a new study in the journal Neurology found that patients who are brain damaged and minimally responsive may be capable of displaying the same type of brain activity to various external stimuli as healthy patients. Does this mean that they are aware? Maybe. Maybe not. We still don’t know enough about consciousness to understand if certain brain activity equates to awareness. But this didn’t stop the New York Times from taking an apple and trying to convince its readers that it’s an orange!
Dr. Bernat [professor of neurology at Dartmouth] said findings from studies like these would be relevant to cases like that of Terri Schiavo, a Florida woman with brain damage who has been kept alive for years against her husband’s wishes. In that case, which drew the attention of Gov. Jeb Bush and the Legislature, relatives of Ms. Schiavo disagreed about her condition, and a brain-imaging test – once it has been standardized – could help determine whether brain damage has extinguished awareness.
Ms. Schiavo suffered severe brain damage from a cardiac arrest and a lack of blood flow and oxygen to her brain. She is kept alive with a feeding tube in her stomach.
When ever a part of the body is severely and irreversibly injured it tends to atrophy (shrink). In the case of Ms. Schiavo, CAT scans have shown that ever since her cardiac arrest her cerebral cortex (that outer layer of the brain that allows us to think and to be conscious and self aware) has atrophied so much that little is left and the rest has been replaced by cerebrospinal fluid.
If one of these functional MRI tests were done on Ms. Schiavo to see if her brain could react to external stimuli there would not be enough of her brain left for the MRI to detect such a reaction. Any reactions that are seen in Ms. Schiavo’s brain during such a test (in the deeper autonomic areas) would likely just confuse the issue since we still have no way of knowing if these reactions mean that there is consciousness and would draw attention away from what we do know; that the thinking part of Ms. Schiavo’s brain is gone thus making consciousness extremely unlikely.
What’s more is that Dr. Bernstein points out that the study in question used patients who were in a minimally conscious state and by definition, patients in such a state are still capable of awareness. Terry Schiavo is in what is clinically described as a Persistent Vegetative State in which the brain damage is so severe that there is no conscious self-awareness.
posted by Chris Rangel MD
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRA.....kl.00.html
Well that is certainley something 50 other neurologists are ready to debate. If you can, please answer this question.
When did Terri have an MRI?
the more important question was answered 2 posts above.
Diggindude#48. Under the circumstances rendered by Rangel Md, quality of life as we experiance and know it is gone. I tend to rely more on medical opinion than non-medcial opinions. I have known parents, sweehearts and wives have had to sign to pull the plug. Never was it easy or done without much deep soul searching. Many have done the same with beloved pets and suffered deeply over having to decide to do so. We all may be confronted with this issue someday be it about us or a beloved one.
When did Terri have an MRI? -Comment by chardonnay— 3/20/05 @ 1:25 pm
I don’t believe she has had one as her murdering husband will NOT let her have medical care, will NOT get her therapy, will NOT let here family in to see her, will NOT let her Priest in to see her, will NOT let her be photographed, will NOT let her be videotaped.
All those WILL NOTS beg the big question…what does hubby have to hide (since we all already know what he stands to gain)?
Since he was offered (and turned down) a million $$ to divorce her and walk away, we are left to speculate that he wants to hide the true facts behind her “accident” and is trying to get rid of the “evidence”: Terri.
Quite the bastard.
Even thinking about the bastard/hubby begs a few more questions…
What kind of woman would hook up with him?
What kind of woman would bear 2 of his (theoretically, equally disposable) children?
What kind of woman would not be worried that the same thing can/will happen to HER?
What kind of woman doesn’t wonder how she will explain to those likely disposable children how bastard/daddy dearest so easily gets away with murdering inconvenient wife #1… and why?
chardonny@50. All 50 neurologists must be Republican. Chris @ 44 said that all people who want her dead are Libs. Insensitive, yes. Sensible, no.
anonymous@53. Watch any TV? Terri has been seen on TV. In fact again last night. Her photos have been in the many newspapers time and again. Now is a poor time to trash Terri with all your warp. What kind of a woman is she? Certainly you don’t know or care. It is your shit, such a thing as decency. Look into the looking glass. The kind of a person you will see is you.
still it’s -50-, compared to Michael Beelzabub Schiavo’s ONE! And a Dr Kavorkian at that.
MS said the snipets we see are mear seconds out of a 4 hour tape. So, Larry King asked him if the CNN cameras could video Terri and he refused. Why?
In the same interview M.B.Schiavo accused Terri’s father of being “in it” for the money. He then said Terri was very close to her parents. Any father who loves his daughter would be after her best interests. Any husband who loves his wife would also.
He admits he came home after 2am after closing the restaurant (or bar), what job was this because he was continually fired from jobs due to his temper.
Oh the temper issue again, yes, the care facility said the same thing about beelzabub. Screaming and yelling, demanding of the staff. I see a pattern evolving. this same loving, caring husband, who showed many signs of a controlling spouse. Terri’s girlfriends all confirm this about MBS and even said Terri was contemplating a divorce.
what is the name of George Felos book? better yet, what is the subject matter? how to kill your wife and get away with it (as long as I defend your ass)?
zap @ 29
Zap, if you ever see me laying in a hospital bed in that condition, for God’s sake jerk the tubes out! And shoot me to make sure!
Chris @ 34
I’ll give you “intersting” as a typo, but I don’t believe “oppossed” was a typo.
Chris @ 34
“I have yet to hear you bring substance to any debate … try to mix in some thought provoking comments ….” Comment by Chris— 3/20/05 @ 9:52 am
Chris @ 35
“The libs have no use for people like Terri, they can’t vote. Or maybe they can, in King County.” Comment by Chris— 3/20/05 @ 9:58 am
Me:
No comment.
Chuck @ 40
It’s spelled “Gary Locke.” Why are Republicans such bad spellers? Is it because they never read anything?
“Litigation as Spiritual Practice” by GJ Felos, describes the excitement and drama of the courtroom, and the ecstasy and anguish of spiritual evolution in a combative environment.
With this meeting, Attorney George Felos became the legal advocate of Estelle Browning’s right-to-die and in the process plumbed the depths of death and dying and spearheaded a social revolution to enable death with dignity in the state of Florida. Felos uses this case and Fellouzis vs. United States of America – a decade-long tax battle sending him to Hong Kong’s back alleys in search of antique jades and ivories – as framework to interweave the story of his law practice and spiritual unfoldment.
Is this why Terri should starve to death? I just read Terri has a fever now and the hospice staff has been instructed not to admin meds, not even a sip of water. husband beelzabub has also ordered no family in Terri’s room. NONE!! what the F?
where would the pETA crowd be if this were a dog or horse?
anonymous @ 53
It’s not hard to understand why whoever posted this libelous attack on the husband would want to hide in anonymity.
In a combative environment (HA) one can be charged with a weblog felony for spelling and grammar errors. What we need here is some good home training.
I find it interesting that all the spokespersons for conservative philosophy on this board have nothing to say about Big Government (sponsored by the Unconservative Party) interfering in a private family matter. Why are the conservative true believers so quiet about Congress floating a bill to overrule the Florida courts, and for that matter the federal courts? Whatever happened to personal liberty? To states’ rights? To separation of powers? and all the rest of that good stuff? Apparently it’s all expendable, and conservative principles also are expendable, when it’s their side controlling Big Government and drooling over the opportunity to use Big Government to push people around.
LIVING, ALIVE, LIFE!!
http://www.cogforlife.org/schiavoDC.htm
Co-conspirator George J. Felos combined
and conspired with Michael Schiavo to arrange for Terri’s “free” stay at Hospice Woodside as part of an “exit protocol” designed to advance Felos’ self-perceived messianic mission of “helping” incapacitated people to die by categorizing them as “terminal,” warehousing them, and depriving them of therapy and rehabilitation services. (Attorney Felos is Director of Florida Right to Die and has testified that he can ascertain a person’s desire to die by “looking into their eyes and letting their spirit speak directly to him”)
So he is selling a book.
Watch any TV? Terri has been seen on TV. In fact again last night. Her photos have been in the many newspapers time and again. Comment by Chee— 3/20/05 @ 2:04 pm
Once again dear CHEEtoh, pay attention to the facts: the pictures you see over and over and over and over are pictures taken by her family YEARS AGO (2001, 2003, 2003)(http://www.sptimes.com/2003/10.....ri_S.shtml) and that, dear CHEEtoh, is why you see the very SAME image every time. Even YOU dear CHEEtoh would have to admit it is misleading to the max to use 3yr old pics and videotapes and it begs the question: why won’t murdering bastard hubby allow NEW pics and/or videos?
char @ 65
Checked out your link and here’s what it says: “We are asking for: An immediate criminal investigation of Michael Schiavo, Judge George Greer and the Federally funded Woodside Hospice Center in Pinellas Park Fl, all who have grossly violated Terri Schiavo’s rights under both State and Federal statutes.”
So typical of the right-wing. Don’t just go after the husband; if the judge rules against you, get him too — and don’t forget to crucify the hospice, its administrators, and the nurses and doctors, too. Don’t get made, get even. That’s what the wingnuts are all about.
The damned link is even dated 10-28-2003.
Sounds like the only thing you really checked out was the bottom of your beer mug.
DON, yes, it is similar to the radial left going after the CAT company for rachel corries death. “typical left wingnuts,” if you wanna call names now. lets also critique the spelling and grammar of everyone, you know, to be fair!
I am so sorry for you that you cannot engage in a civil discussion without getting yourself worked up ito a frezy.
I assume if we were talking live you would be constantly interupting and shouting over others. Is this where the censorship issue comes to into play?
Kristallnacht in WASH State? Looks like Goldy and DON have been busy.
Don@64. You just took the words out of my spouse’s mouth. EXACTLY! Great minds do run in the same channel. Doesn’t take a great mind to see government interferance of the worst kind, Repers are running in the same channel without any mind to what is and what is not sacred. They should mind their own business. Government is going way too far when entering into family matters such as the case of Terri. The Repers have seized on the right to decide and want Federal support to boot as they race against the clock. Maybe the God of Terri’s heart will intervene and stop her heart.
lil chuckie @ 40 the financial mess of Gary Locke is nothing compared to the financial disaster that your dear GW is leaving as his history. The USA has never been in a poorer situation and it will take years to recover from the Bush family’s trouncing of the USA.
John @39 — Fantastic! We are all waiting to hear you explain your morally and ethically-superior beliefs. Enlighten us Obiwan.
OK, here’s the thing. I actually don’t think that the US Senate et al, getting involved in this case is a good thing. While I may not agree (vehemently) bastard hubby has the “right” to murder his wife by judicial blessing, I also don’t think federal government has a spot in the debate. At the most, it would be a states rights issue.
I think, if anything, Terri should have her OWN representation, as a minor child would, in form of a guardian ad litem.
Secondly, the burden of caring for her will NOT fall on the murdering bastard husband (despite the fact that he BENEFITTED to the tune of $100,000 in insurance), nor will the burden fall to the state and/or the taxpayers. Terri has a loving family ready, willing and able to care for her.
Thirdly, would people be quite so cavalier with life if it was about pulling the feeding tube on an incapacitated Parkinsons patient… say Michael J Fox? Or perhaps Grandmama in the throes of Alzheimers? Or perhaps Mom with amyotrophic lateral sclerosis?
It’s interesting they way some on the left prioritize life: Underwear on the head of a terrorist prisoner: not OK.
Sentencing a cop killer to death: not OK. -(And let’s be sure to make Mumia our hero.)
Testing lifesaving medicines on rats: not OK.
Killing the unborn: OK.
Killing Terri: OK.
I hope YOU poor, confused folks raising your kids in moral relativism don’t ever become a Terri.
AnonoMO@66. Go visit a death tank, then come back and tell me if you wish to go there. The wards are overcrowded with the living dead, similiar to Terri and waiting to die. Do they want their picture taken? Can you take their picture if not a family member. No you could not, house rule prohibts such and not hard to know why. I wouldn’t want to see your death tank photo on my huge flat screen. Your drooling here is bad enough.
The POINT is CHEEtoh, is that murdering bastard hubby is preventing her family from visiting, making memories (that despite YOUR typical heartless attitude, would be valuable to them) and taking pictures to preserve those memories, and yes to show the world she is not the lump of cheese you all continue to insist she is. She is a living breathing being with as much right to live as YOU have.
http://www.thekansascitychanne.....etail.html
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/stor.....038;page=1
Don@59
Point? If you have one.
By the way I went back and found a couple spelling errors in a post or two of yours, are you switching sides?
Investigate Insurance company established in Jan 2001 at the home of Michael Schiavo and his girlfriend/fiancee Jody Centonze. (Jerger and Centonze Insurnace Agency Inc.) Michael is listed on the Board of Directors for the corporation. Note: Insurance is deliberately misspelled in the State of Florida Corporate filing, possibly to avoid investigation.
would that be one of those evil corporations?? Not if he is a Democrat.
Oh kind hearted ANON@75, me thinks you are anything but. You don’t know Terri’s husband. Don’t know if he is or is not a bastard. You do not know how he feels but you call him murderous. Consider that having compassion can also be a motivation force for right to die naturally rather than be kept alive artificially. I suspect by your posting that your not motivated by the virtue of compassion for others. Nor mercy.
The man, aka, murdering bastard husband, can solve this whole issue by simply divorcing Terri. He has divorced himself from her life in every way except legally: He has a “fiance”. He spawned two children with her. In doing so, he violated the vow he made when he married Terri. He simply wants her dead. The question remains, why is he anxious to have her terminated, when his “problem” is easily solved with a simple divorce.
He qualifies to be called a bastard.
He qualifies to be called immoral.
He qualifies to be called murderous.
I believe in always erring on the side of human LIFE, even when it means cop-killing, offensive and disgusting human animals like Mumia get to keep breathing.
Okay, guess I will be a weenie (or aluminum hat boy, if Goldy would let me borrow it) and ask why the Federal Government is getting involved in Terri Schiavo’s case?
From my perspective, at what point does the government (state or fed) have a right to decide this issue by legislation, thus circumventing the state judiciary (the state decision was upheld by the SCOTUS)?
More to the point, how can a law be written to extend to the Schiavo case when that case has already been fully adjudicated under existing law? A good term here is ex post facto…a decidedly unconstitutional practice.
Beyond that (or, before that, perhaps), 15 years have passed since Terri succumbed to her vegetative state. Why is it laws are being written today and signed tomorrow which will/may affect the outcome of something which has already been decided? I thought Congress was a deliberative body. Should they not have taken this up before crunch time? I don’t remember Congress acting in such a manner before. Maybe I am being paranoid, but it is more than a bit disconcerting…can the media (aggregate) exert that much control? What happens if some other issue were to become the emergency du jour?
Having said all that, how is it that the judge reached the decision to allow her husband to remove the tube in the first place? Was it not because the state law specifically allows the spouse to be the legal controlling guardian and arbiter? Is such a ruling wrong? From a moral standpoint, sure, as the outcome is inevitable, but it is the law that counts.
Can someone give me reasons why the Legislative and Executive branches of our federal government is getting involved after the fact?
Mark, I don’t think the federal government should be involved.
BUT, I think they became involved to reinforce that America is a country that believes in LIFE.
I think the culture of death that has taken hold in places like The Netherlands is a very frightening slippery slope they don’t want America and Americans to succumb to.
In the Netherlands they participate in infanticide, assisted suicide, outright euthanasia. The problems have arisen since they began to continually expand the definition of who should/could/would be put to death legally. What started as OK to abort severely and genetically ill children has evolved into aborting children with highly reparable cleft palate. What started as ok to “euthanize” a suffering end stage cancer patient has evolved into murdering poor, inconvenient Granpapa with Alzeimers.
Marks @ 81
Responding to your last paragraph, the reason overriding all others (let’s assume there are some others) can be found in any decent dictionary somewhere between the entries for pandemonium and pane.
Mark@81. An existing practice has been a long standing practice. Grown children have had to decide when to pull the plug on their parents. Under doctor’s reports, reommendations and direct supervision they have done so. Not only is it financilly draining to keep the plug in but emotionally draining as well. Further, more emotional to have to pull the plug. This has went on forever in every hospital for years. Were the Republicans asleep all those years? Tonight at midnight, roll will be called in Washington. DC. Not for a minute do I not think the sponsors of this hurry-scurry do not have a hidden adgenda. Of course they do Mark.
Pulling the damned plug of LIFE SUPPORT is not the same as STARVING a woman to death who is NOT on life support.
Do you even understand the difference?
anonymous @82
Very good points. Certainly the lesson is to make a living will, the sooner the better. In that way, your wishes will not end up misrepresented by anyone.
RDC @83
Ouch. You discovered the overriding factor…
@80. Terri is a high profile case for Republicans to shine it on with. Meanwhile, every so many seconds, minutes, hours, days, weeks or months, somewhere in the U.S. someone’s life support is being directed to be removed by a spouse and next of kin without a mention, Shows the little people mean less publicity for the Republican Party. Why make an issue out of Bobby Joe from Seattle skid row whose only living realtive was a seconed cousin by incest who hitched a ride up from Gash, Arkansas to ok pulling Bobby Joe’s plug. Republicans are making issue out of what they think will increase their political clout and feather their o, to Hell with Bobby Joe.
Withdrawing anything that sustains life is support, tube or plug.
So lets pull those dialysis machines – that’s life support.
Let’s disable those pacemakers – that’s life support.
When my 3yr old neighbor was enduring chemo for his leukemia, they gave him a “feeding” tube because he couldn’t keep foods down – that was life support.
Hell, why even offer chemotherapy or radiation or surgery? – they’re life support.
Nitoglycerine for those with heart problems, inhalers for the asthmatic, epinephrine for the dangerously allergic, insulin for the diabetic – all life support.
RDC. Hospitals when admitting, staff member gives a form to sign by incoming patient or a party who legally represents them in case of patient being incapacitated. Nursing homes do the same. All is arranged before hand, not an after the fact. And form is upgraded yearly and resigned. I do not know what was signed or upgraded re Terri. But I do know the Terri Schiavo Bill will have U.S Congress working overtime and by midnight will be moved on. The news calls it a politicial move for conservatives to strenghen their Republican base.
It’s amazing to see white whine in here defending Terri, She is the one in favor of Death Penalty for Jay Walkers.
The news states passing the bill does not eliminate the husbands rights and tube may not be replaced even if bill passes.
Yep it probably IS a political move to strenghten a base… the very same way democrats opposing it is a political move to placate their $$$ base: Planned Parenthood, NARAL, ACLU, People For the American Way, MoveOn.org.
THAT’S exactly what this is all about politically – defining what LIFE is or, in the case of the pro-bort liberals, devaluing life DOWN.
I wonder if Joe Blow on skid row that got his feeding tube removed after his distant half cousin by incest hiked all the way from Gash, Arkansa to come to his aid would be of interest to the GOP. Hell no, they are riding their elephant on the fever surrounding Terri.
I don’t know what this is, or what it will be, but I expect it to be rivetting and heartbreaking.
Do you have the nerve to listen?
http://www.drudgereport.com/
DRUDGE RADIO to present audio of Terri Schiavo responding to her father on Friday, immediately following the removal of her feeding tube…. Check local listings…
DRUDGE RADIO LIVE SUNDAY NIGHT 10 PM ET TO 1 AM… HEARD IN ALL 50 STATES…
NET STREAMS…
WABC, 770AM, NYC [*STARTS AT 9:30 PM ET]…
KFI, 640AM, LOS ANGELES…
KOGO, 600AM, SAN DIEGO…
WGST, 640AM, ATLANTA…
WIOD, 610AM, MIAMI…
WFLA, 970AM, TAMPA
WJNO, 1290AM, W. PALM BEACH…
KPRC, 950AM, HOUSTON…
@92. The Donkeys are laying low on this hot elphant.
I heard it. She is clearly trying to say IIIIII WAAAAAAA to live but simply cannot because ratbastard husbund denied her therapy for a decade.
I see where you HA group is on this. This issue is like trying to explain to you why my money is MY money. There is no convincing the mentally challenged here at HA. Can’t be done. Hence the liberalism disorder. I say we hand you over to Dr Cranford and George Felos. We will appoint Michael Schiavo as your guardian since he seems to be your poster boy. All hail the democrats, hey where is Harry Reid on this issue? Hmmmmm?
Lets check out how he voted. Last I heard he was working in what is called a bi-partisan effort on Terri’s behalf. Interesting huh? Murray, Cantwell?
I can say one thing, I have looked into this Schiavo issue and have found interesting things on Michael. Since I have first hand knowledge of what it is like to live with an abusive ratbastard, I can absolutely say he had all the traits. And that it is enough for any descent person to take a serious look at. You see, the abuse never really stops. The abuser finds ways to keep it up. Michael Beelzubub continued on today by keeping Terri’s parents from seeing their daughter. Yes Michael, the real victim here.
oops, spelling err, 1st sentence, HUSBAND! Sorry Don, please don’t get mad and have Goldy ban me. Please.
Special News Bulletin from Washington D.C. “an undisclosed source recently leaked a confidential memo from the white house listing ‘Washington Association of Ridiculous Trolls’ (WART) as the official mouthpiece for GW’s policies in the state of Washington. WART is composed of, Mr. CynicalIdiot, Pres, jch, Vice Pres., angryvoter – Pubic relations, soundcrossing – secretary, xmasghost – treasurer and newly elected member anonymous – sargeant at arms. The Wart Society has the following as major benefactors: BIAW, EFF, Haliburton, DeLay’s Pizza and the ‘Saint Rossi’ foundation. This must be true, I have not heard a single one of them deny it. Pure and simple Republican logic 101
@93. Co-addiction is real, takes two. Abuse is real, takes one or two. I abhor abuse and make no allowance for physical or mental abuse of any kind. We share that much in common even if of differant faiths and political status. I can see your side from your picture book. Having not met either Mr. or Mrs. Schiavo or observing their life or interactions I remove myself from passing judgement on either of them. However, quality of life is very important and I would never want to live on when quality of life is gone. The Indians welcomed death as a friend saying, Today is a good day to die. Everyone thinks differently about death.
Continuing on the “life support” theme…
To an accident victim, the emergency room is “life support”.
To the unemployed/unemployable, welfare is “life support”.
To the addict OD’d on his drug of choice, Narcan is “life support”.
To the family with no health benefits, Medicare/Medicade is “life support”.
To retired poor planning Granny, Social Security is “life support”.
Come on CHHEtoh and lib followers… belly up to the bar and tell us all where YOU draw the “life support” line… where exactly are we cutting it off?
CHARDONNY. Sorry..error. I meant post 97 for you at 95. NAd yur= speling us jutt ffione. -)
@95. :-)
@98. When my wives breasts drop below her ankles is where I draw the support line.
chee, Abuse of one spouse on another is not co-addiction. you are wrong. and bless you my lord for your forgivness of my spelling error.
@98. When my wives breasts drop below her ankles is where I draw the support line. -Comment by Chee— 3/20/05 @ 7:14 pm
Ah yes, one of those “enlightened” liberal males. A real, live SNAG*! How wonderful it must be to be loved by you.
*Sensitive New Age Guy
@102. I separated the two. Look again. I understand the differance as you do.
I understand the differance as you do.
Dictionary.com babe… or is it a simple TYPING error for you as it usually is for the rest of us? If so, then perhaps YOU should refrain from comment.
@98. Add to your list support hose and jock straps.
@103. Gotcha. Wide open, took hook.
LOL @ 106 – to say nothing of VIAGRA!
LOL @ 106… to say nothing about Vi*gra!
@108. I almost forgot to take mine, thanks for the head up. BNF.
CHAR @ 69
I suggest you take a good look at how your friends of the Far Right treat anyone who disagrees with them before you lecture me (or anyone else) on debate etiquette, sweetie.
Chris @ 77
Since you can’t figure it out, it appears I have to explain it to you. In #34 you complained about jpgee never bringing any “substance” to a debate, then 6 minutes later in #35 you demonstrate your idea of “substance” by making a flip remark about Terri Schiavo voting in King County. This is a case of the kettle calling out the pot. Or maybe you were staring in a mirror and didn’t realize you were looking at yourself when you posted #34.
anonymous @ various
You say America is a country that believes in life, yet it attacked a country that did not threaten or attack us, and has killed tens of thousands of innocent civilians.
You say America is a country that believes in life, yet its soldiers, operatives, and agents have killed over 100 detainees in torture chambers.
I say America is a country that believes in life when saying so suits its convenience, and is a country more than willing to take life whenever it feels like it, simply because it can.
What you call pulling underwear over people’s heads is actually shoving broom handles up their rectums, raping them, kicking and punching them, and killing them. Over 100 dead in U.S.-run torture chambers and the only thing you have to say about it is we’re just pulling underwear over people’s heads. Shame on you. It is people like you who enable such behavior by our own government. Shame on you.
anonymous @ 85
A feeding tube IS life support.
there you lefties go, Death in War, death penalty, abortion, and assisted suicide. Why oh why do we always have to go down this path? DON, are you really going to put them all in the same 1/2 empty glass and blame Republicans?
Please tell me Don, your Honor, when did Terri have a MRI?
anonymous @ 88
Dialysis is medical treatment, not life support. Dialysis patients are sentient human beings able to walk, talk, hear, see, think, work, love, and play. By your definition of “life support,” taking a drink of water or eating a meal would also be “life support.”
Umm…Don @112,
Where are these facts, as you see them? If I have missed them, then, indeed, shame on me…let me know.
char @ 96
I’m not made at you righties for your spelling errors, I’m just giving you a hard time. Because it’s fun. :D
And the kidneys of dialysis patients will shut down and they will DIE if they don’t have it, hence it supports their life.
Terri can see, she can hear, she can love and be loved, she can smile and frown and perhaps only in a limited capacity compared to you and I, but she can also THINK
104, 105
Oh shit, what have I started?
Don@111
I assumed that is what you meant but I still ask; Point?
As I mentioned before I don’t mind the personal attack or a concise comment with a bit of humor, like I made. I appreciate if more often then not a little substance is brought into the comments. I think you’ll find plenty of substance in my posts. That is why we disagree so much.
don @ 117, just a slighjt error, you don’t need to be made, or mad at anyone. HUN!
oops…slight. once again so so sorry. your honor! don’t be made at me or mad. LOL
You know, it’s kind of – Goldy gave “us” the open thread for ugliness, yet it seems that so far this has been the most cordial thread.
oops, missed a word: interesting
anon @ 118,
Do you see, they cannot produce the MRI info on Terri. the ratbastard never had one done on his wife, the one he loves so much.
If liberalism is a mental disorder, a disability, similar to alzheimers, it needs the Democratic party to survive, aka life support. What would happen if the party were to implode? LOL, liberalism might die. rectumitis retentive.
Oh look, another example of the US government lying to us and our allies about matters of life and death (y’now, like nuclear secrets and what-not).
http://story.news.yahoo.com/ne....._2005mar19
From this we can conclude the Bush administration clearly believes:
1) The ends justify the means (see also torture, false rationale for war, indefinite detention, violation of prohibitions against government funding of propoganda, etc.).
2) “Do as I say, not as I do”.
So, next time you hear a Republican or conversative getting on some soapbox about how “liberals lie” and Conservatives have ethics. Tell ’em to buzz off.
Sanctimony is ugly – buzz off.
131 @ jc
liberals like Barney Frank and the page boy?
http://www.ytedk.com checkthatout.
Broken windows at Rebublican Headquarters in WASH State. Goldy? DON? Fess up!!
1) The ends justify the means (see also torture, false rationale for war, indefinite detention, violation of prohibitions against government funding of propoganda, etc.).
Kinda like bombing an aspirin factory when you get caught “staining” a particular blue dress… or like the phony tears manufactured for the camera at a colleagues funeral when it really caught you gaffawing it up… or the impromptu dance on the beach with your “wife” when your mainstream poll numbers are down….or oh so conveniently “finding” a cross of pepples on the beach -(God, you’d have to be an total brain dead idiot to believe that one) …or your answer depending on the meaning of “is”, or the 2004 Washington election being a “model for the country…
ALL @ ALL, and Don
Are we past the spelling and grammar colon exam yet?
I am trying not to puke as I watch barney frank on cspan.
time to vote for terri, prez standing by.
oh my GOD dems are split so far 23 yea 37 nay 10 min to go.
char @ 114
“Please tell me Don, your Honor, when did Terri have a MRI?”
I don’t know, and it’s not necessary for me to know. The trial judge, with the medical evidence in front of him, concluded that “Mrs. Schiavo was beyond medical science’s ability to help.” (Quoting a news report: See http://www.sptimes.com/2003/09.....te_t.shtml) An appeals court, with the caution appropriate for a life-and-death case, ordered Judge Greer to hold another hearing and consider additional medical evidence. He did, and on appeal, the appeals court upheld Judge Greer, referring to “irrefutable evidence that (Mrs. Schiavo’s) cerebral cortex has sustained the most-severe of irreparable injuries.”
In order for you to be right, every court that has reviewed this case has to be wrong. It’s not plausible that all the judges who reviewed this case are lying about what her medical condition is, or have a homicidal motive.
This case is a terrible tragedy. A vibrant young woman collapsed and suffered cardiac arrest. Deprived of oxygen, the sentient, conscious, thinking part of her brain — the part that makes us human — died before medical aid arrived. Compounding the tragedy are the facts the rest of her body didn’t die when her cerebral cortex died, and family members — parents, brother, husband — can’t agree on whether to continue maintaining such life as remains in a body that is not dead of a person who is not alive. When this happens, the law directs the courts to make the decision for them, based on medical evidence and the best available expert interpretation of the medical evidence. The courts have done their job.
What we see now is strangers with an ideological axe to grind resorting to ad hominen attacks instead of medical evidence to press their argument. The husband has been accused of everything from causing her condition through spousal abuse to wanting to terminate life support for personal financial gain. The level of hate being directed against him, the judge, and others who disagree with the do-it-our-way-or-else is typical of how the ideology-driven Far Right deals with virtually all issues. They are blind to lies about the war in Iraq or tortures inflicted by American forces because it’s not what they want to hear. They have equally immunized themselves against the medical facts about Terri Schiavo’s condition because it’s not what they want to hear.
I’m just a stranger living in a distant state expressing an opinion. My opinion is this. If the judge and medical experts are wrong, and that woman indeed is aware of her surroundings and has a capacity for thinking and feeling — this is extremely unlikely but if she does — I can’t imagine a crueler fate than being kept alive because what she has is not life but imprisonment in a dead body. That body can’t speak, talk, or move. That’s not life, that’s living hell. How can anyone want this for a fellow human being?
The same folks who see nothing wrong with torture, I guess.
anon @ 134
It’s not at all clear that was an aspirin factory. As for the blue dress, while I do not approve of Clinton’s behavior, given a choice between a president who screws an intern or one who screws the whole world, I’ll take Clinton over Bush. Clinton’s affairs hurt himself, his wife and family, and his paramours. Bush’s lies and irresponsible actions are hurting millions of people.
Don, it is my understanding that the “hubby” hasn’t allowed any recent, independant medical evaluations.
As far as a useless body:
Christopher Reeves
Stephen Hawking
Pope John Paul II
There is ALWAYS hope… even after 20 long desperate years:
http://www.thekansascitychanne.....etail.html
And if there is no hope, why do we encourage medical research at all? Why bother with a cure for cancer or aids or diabetes? Why salivate over biotechnology and stem cells? Isn’t the beginning of ALL research a excercise in faith and hope as well as ideas and knowledge?
this is very long but worth reading.
http://abstractappeal.com/schi.....Report.pdf
HOLY SHIT, do you realize the vote was 203 yea to 58 nay?
sorry guys but it appears your Dems are divided. How do you “feel” about that?
It was a political hot potato vote Char.
Can you imagine next election season having to explain why you voted to give a man the “right” to kill his wife? This is not a “right to die” issue: it’s a right to legally commit murder vs a right to life issue.
President Geore W Bush just signed bill to save Teresa Maria Schindler, oh ya schiavo.
Felos is going to have to add a new chapter to his book.
im surprised they got involved at all. pretty soon you’ll have to get a ruling before you can flush.
yep, beat your wife into a coma, and then swear she told you she did not want life support or a feeding tube.
Where is the N.O.W. group?
still trying to find the vote tally.
bush needs all the diversions he can attach himself to, but i fail to see why anyone but medical professionals are deciding this woman’s condition.
Terri’s death wish or Michael’s?
Schiavo contradicts himself in Larry King interview/www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=43401
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRA.....kl.01.html
…Asked why he has persisted in his decade-long effort to end his wife’s life despite the wishes of Terri Schiavo’s parents and others who love her, Schiavo said: “Because this is what Terri wanted. This is her wish.” …
…”I won’t give it up,” he said. “Terri is my life. I’m going to carry out her wishes to the very end. This is what she wanted. It’s not about the Schindlers. It’s not about me, not about Congress. It’s about Terri.”…
…Shortly after saying his determination to end Terri’s life was about her wishes, Schiavo changed his story in the King interview. Asked if he understood her family’s feelings, he said: “Yes, I do. But this is not about them, it’s about Terri. And I’ve also said that in court. We didn’t know what Terri wanted, but this is what we want. …”
The interview aired Friday.
“In cases like this one, where there are serious questions and substantial doubts, our society, our laws and our courts should have a presumption in favor of life,” Bush said in a statement after signing the bill.
Its too bad ol’ gw wasnt feeling this sense of justice and fairness right before we bombed the shit out of residential neighborhoods in Iraq.
And it’s too bad you and all those ol’ libs pals aren’t as concerned about asense of justice and fairness for unborn babies as you are terrorist nations led by evil despots.
Don@60
Doesnt matter how you spell it it means LOSER
terri is an unborn baby?
Oh, i get it, you’re about to go off on a rant about abortion.
Political posturing, has no place in private medical affairs.
Why not be rational, and let an unbiased team of specialists determine this woman’s condition, instead of extremist groups?
ratbastard on CNN larry king right now
DD @ 144
you might not be far off, we are already being asked to conserve water, in March!
Read, the parents said they would keep her alive if she had no arms, no legs, needed heart surgery while in a coma, etc.
they dont care about what terri wanted, or how she feels. they admit they have no idea what she wanted done with her should she become needy of life support.
It may be, all about them making a shrine out of their daughter.
listen to her father telling lies.
on larry king right now.
why does that ratbastard have to even bring up a gyn exam? come on, what does that tell you? f’r abusing her, publically.
DD @ 153,
do you have a mental disorder? for Christ sake, they mean they love her that much, as in unconditional love.
What would Terri ‘want’? Not a cheating husband:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/n.....E_ID=43389
Bon appetit – Terri is starving:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/n.....E_ID=43393
Whose choice is it anyway?:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/n.....E_ID=43398
The smell of death:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/letters.asp
Rabbi Boteach said in his recent article: “Before Hitler came for the Jews and the gypsies, he first came after the mentally handicapped.”
Death lawyer George Felos, Judge George Greer and Michael Schiavo seem to have formed a pact to do the same. Felos actually tried to politicize the whole thing after Terri’s tube was removed by making it a Republican issue. I am sure there are plenty of Democrats who care about Terri.
The “quality of life … culture of death … loving neglect” crowd seem delighted at the prospect of ridding our society of one of its most helpless, all the while professing to be taking the high road. These are the same folks who protect pregnant lobsters, baby seals, whales and anything else non-human. Interesting how they tend to be pro-abortion as well. The smell of death surrounds this crowd!
My dog had a stroke some time ago, and he is less than perfect now, but there is no way I would even remotely consider starving him to death. Imagine the type of character it takes to starve a human. I know of at least three of them. -Dave Ellis
Terri’s ‘cruel and unusual punishment’
I saw the headline the other day: “Scott Peterson receives death sentence.” The judge ruled that his crime was so horrific that his death will be carried out by starvation and dehydration! Oh, wait a minute; I’m getting my stories mixed up. Death by starvation and dehydration is too cruel and unusual a punishment to implement on any lowlife criminal. We reserve that execution for the disabled and helpless citizens of America! (Terri Schiavo).
Enjoy your supper, Judge Greer. -Robert Blaski
What an incredibly perfect (and telling) juxtaposition to Terri’s story:
Lessons from my pig Winnie
Sondra Crosby decries treatment of ‘downed’ animals at factory farms
http://www.boston.com/news/glo.....ig_winnie/
char, if they love her so much, there is no better reason “””IF SHE IS BEYOND HELP”””, to let her go, and not make a zoo exhibit out of her.
How many times has everyone looked at a comatose, or very severely disabled person, and said to their spouse;..
“if i ever get like that, i want to be taken off life support”
Ive said it many times, and we have it on paper.
what does he have to gain? What does he gain, by not giving in, and letting the parents drag her life on forever at any price?
He gains nothing.
maybe hes telling the truth?
why is he guilty, until proven innocent?
anon @ 138
Terri S. isn’t Christopher Reeve, Stephen Hawking, or Pope John — all of whom are (or were) sentient, conscious, thinking human beings. Each case of catastrophic medical condition has to be considered on its own facts. Lumping these four individuals together in the same basket demonstrates a lack of analytical reasoning ability.
What does he have to lose by quietly divorcing her and letting those willing and able to care for her do so? He will be equally able to get on with his life and look like far less of a scumbag than he really is.
anon @ 39
I rely on medical experts to distinguish between hopeless cases and those offering at least a chance. What do you rely on? Political ideology? Blind faith? Mindless hope? Wishful thinking? Gut instinct? Ouija board? Stubbornness? Unreasoning emotion?
anonymous @ 142
Bullshit.
Don, Don, Don.
YOU brought it up tootsie:
“I can’t imagine a crueler fate than being kept alive because what she has is not life but imprisonment in a dead body. That body can’t speak, talk, or move. That’s not life, that’s living hell. How can anyone want this for a fellow human being?
-Comment by Don— 3/20/05 @ 9:35 pm
Stephan Hawking cannot communicate normally – he does so by artificial means, as did Reeves. Pope John Paul is almost completely unable to communicate any more. Reeves couldn’t breathe on his own… Terri can. Reeves and Hawking couldn’t/can’t “move”.
PS Don – speaking and talking are the same thing, dear.
maybe he feels the need to carry out his wifes last wishes.
maybe, he would rather die, than to not follow through with a promise he made to her?
I dont know, but niether does anyone but michael schiavo.
char @ 145
My God, woman, where do you get such ignorance from? Where is the evidence he “beat her into a coma”? If he did, why isn’t he in jail? If she was beaten why didn’t she have bruises, contusions, and fractures? And this woman isn’t in a coma, she’s in a persistent vegetative state, which is not the same thing. Comatose patients have live brains. This woman’s conscious, thinking brain is dead.
brain death.
no cognitive function. unable to convey thought or communication. big difference between schiavo,- hawking, reeves, pope……..
“Bullshit.” -Comment by Don— 3/20/05 @ 11:22 pm
What an interesting form of debate.
the vultures have come to roost on their claimed carrion, and they will defend it to the limbless, failed organ, end.
anonymous @ 149
You are a fucking idiot. The Iraqi people who bore the brunt of American bombs and gunfire had no choice about who was running their country. They were victims of Saddam, and now they are victims of Americans. The only thing they did wrong was be born in the wrong country.
Yep Don and Dude, ol’ Dave Ellis sure has you and your crowd pegged:
The “quality of life … culture of death … loving neglect” crowd seem delighted at the prospect of ridding our society of one of its most helpless, all the while professing to be taking the high road. These are the same folks who protect pregnant lobsters, baby seals, whales and anything else non-human. Interesting how they tend to be pro-abortion as well. The smell of death surrounds this crowd!
anon @ 168
Sometimes you have to call a thing by its right name.
For the benefit of our sanctimonious friends on the right we have for your benefit:
The Texas Futile Care Law.
Signed into the laws of the State of Texas by our dear friend, George W. Bush.
maybe he feels the need to carry out his wifes last wishes.
maybe, he would rather die, than to not follow through with a promise he made to her?
I dont know, but niether does anyone but michael schiavo.
Comment by Diggindude— 3/20/05 @ 11:23 pm
Oh please. Now it’s pity poor Michael Schiavo?
He’s been with his common law wife for 10 years – they have 2 chidren presumably under the age of 10:
“Daddy, daddy why did Sally’s momma say you wanted to kill that lady. If I can’t wake up will you kill me too?” “Daddy, daddy Johnny says when you get tired of mommy you’re going to stop giving her food.” Dad, how can I explain to my fiance the horrible decision you made to fighjt to kill you 1st wife?”
Why is it so hard for some people to let the medically hopeless go? Why do they feel so driven to force strangers to endure an existence that is not living but merely torment? It seems to me their motivation is to fulfill a need of their own, whether ideological or emotional, rather than any interest of the patient. Their position strikes me as profoundly selfish.
Lovely legacy your Michael Schaivo… way to choose your heroes and icons guys.
Maybe, deep down inside, they just can’t accept the idea of death because it reminds them of their own mortality and the realization they too will die someday is terrifying to them.
it just shouldnt be decided by extremists and politicians.
there has to be several specialists, acceptable to both sides of the argument, available to make some determination.
Keep the political opportunists out of it.
This case has nothing to do with politics.
The only people involved are doctors, and family.
Im going to update our living will this week.
don @ 160
christopher reeve had a loving wife by his side that made sure he had the BEST CARE. Terri has had little to no care in years. it seems she has survived longer than superman
NOW…terri’s parents on CNN
By the way righties, Dave Reichert along with 4 other Republicans has voted against Tom DeLay’s midnight political stunt.
As a lifelong Democrat, I tip my hat to them.
D @ 166 D=don
who is ignorant? what I said was anyone can beat their wife. re-read my post. I accept your apology honey! are you an attorney?
JOHN @ 73
wow, i wonder how the right wingettes are going to react to gw killing babies because they ran low on funds?
That is just another instance of the great hypocracy of the self righteous right.
You could be right Don – but what difference does it make?
Terri’s family loves her, values the time they have with her and are willing to bear the burden emotionally and financially.
Michael is not. Why should she be sentenced to a death by starvation because he is unwilling/unable to value her.
Once again, if Michael is the innocent spouse who moved on with his life, he has nothing to lose and everything to gain by simply divorcing her legally as he has already done emotionally.
Cui bono?
4 republicans may have voted no, but whats bigger is 50+ voted yes.
Don, take your prozac, I see hints of a flair up. why must you get so abusive in a discussion?
see that char? the parents on cnn.
whats the motive?
no money to be had.
Hes been vindicated many times. why would he still be here, if he wasnt carrying out her wishes? you say hes hiding something, like he was abusive, but isnt that just rumors?
Theres no basis for any of that is there?
I havent found it yet.
The father wanted some of the money.
Is this true?
I heard he admitted it in court.
50+ dems voted yes.
By the way righties, Dave Reichert along with 4 other Republicans has voted against Tom DeLay’s midnight political stunt.
As a lifelong Democrat, I tip my hat to them. -Comment by John— 3/20/05 @ 11:41 pm
What are you going to do with your hat regarding the 47 DEMOCRATS that voted with the Republicans?
Perhaps, instead of eating your hat you would prefer to eat your words.
Oh wait. That’s even more than Terri would be allowed to do.
Terri can’t “eat”…
i really do understand the love they have for their child, and if there wasnt the question of her last wishes, her going to the parents would be the best thing for the parents.
If you were asked to carry out your loved ones last wishes, would you do it?
Better yet, i would like to see the question posed to the parents.
If terri had made it clear to them she did not want to live like this, would they carry out her wishes?
DD, thats nonsense. why doesn’t MS divorce her, give them custody of her. i read that a doctor said there were injuries on her neck that were consistent with strangulation. The Judge refused to hear it.
anyone have the link to the senate votes?
Have you ever been faced with making that decision? I have.
i’ll ask you again, if this reason is valid, that he is honoring her wishes, were you in this position, would you be true to your loved one, or would you let the parents keep her alive against her wishes?
anon @ 187
I don’t have too much of a problem with those Dems. I’m sure many if not all of them have to run in districts full of live wire nutcases like you, unfortunately.
By the way are you going to register your indignation at that babykilling hospital in Texas and at Dubya for signing that futile care law?
That law leaves your “culture of life” mind speechless, doesn’t it?
ive already made the decision. its on paper.
It is also fact that TERRI has never had an MRI, PET or SPECT scan. The CAT scan that purports to show cortical liquefaction isn’t acurate enough to determine that by itself. x-rays, used in a cat scan, don’t show soft tissue very well. there should have been follow up diagnostics, and there were not. therefore, everything that follows from the presumption of cortical liquefaction has to be re-examined.
so how is it you are an expert?
“I don’t have too much of a problem with those Dems. I’m sure many if not all of them have to run in districts full of live wire nutcases like you”
Comment by John @ 192
Sounds like you’re rationalizong a little too heavily there, John. Maybe they actually voted their conscience. Or does that only occur when they vote the party line? I think the Dems and lefties like you are pretty far out there by making such a big “anti-Bush” deal over this.
You guys are marching in “anti-Bush” lockstep, that is your problem. If Bush had come out for killing Terry S. the “progressives” would have been against it.
Sit on your bias a minute please Don, I have a legal question for you.
Could a court ORDER Michael Schiavo to divorce Terri and relinguish her guardianship to her family?
Thats why i said, get a group of specialists, acceptable by both parties, and determine pvs or not.
If so, why cant terri decide her own fate?
Im sure of one thing, we need a right to die law, as well as a right to live.
The courts need to respect a persons wishes as far as prolonging life artificially. We dont want to give the right to keep a person alive, to politicians.
Why arent you republicans jumping all over bush for killing a baby last week?
Dont babies have the right to an artificially extended brain dead life also?
anon @ 171
This isn’t about “ridding society” of Terri Schiavo. This is about not forcing her to linger in a state of living death. As usual, wingnut reasoning has it ass backwards!
chardonnay @ 168
Utterly irrelevant. Reeve wasn’t brain dead, he was a conscious human being with a functioning mind.
char @ 181
No, that’s NOT what you said. You did NOT use the word “anyone.” What you said was: “yep, beat your wife into a coma, and then swear she told you she did not want life support or a feeding tube.”
How many people here think chardonnay did NOT accuse Michael Schiavo of beating his wife into a coma?
anon @ 183
Yes, he could chose to divorce her … actually, he wouldn’t even have to divorce her, he could simply defer to her parent’s wishes. He didn’t. I don’t know why.
And Florida law could give the parents precedence over the spouse. It doesn’t. I don’t know why.
If it were up to me, I think the law should put the parents’ wishes ahead of the spouse’s. But it’s not up to me.
On two points, however, my mind is clear: 1. No one should be forced to live in a vegetative state. 2. Congress has no business usurping the courts.
Diggin @ 185
The claim that Michael Schiavo abused his wife isn’t even a rumor. As we have seen again and again, right wingers live in a fantasy world, and don’t hesitate to create “facts” to support their beliefs. Some folks call it fiction. Others call it lying.
zip @ 195
Maybe they did. Like I said, I don’t have much of a problem with them, just like I salute the R’s who said no to DeLay’s lifeboat stunt. I’m sure they voted their conscience as well especially Dave Reichert who’s seen his share of life and death situations during his career. Or maybe they serve districts with sane people in them.
anon @ 196
I can’t visualize any circumstance under which a court would “order” someone to divorce his or her spouse. The procedure a court most likely would utilize to accomplish the same end would be to appoint a GAL who would file for divorce on the incapacitated spouse’s behalf, and the court could then grant the GAL’s request for a divorce.
Unless there is some statutory impediment in Florida, I don’t see why a divorce would be a necessary prerequisite to a court simply appointing a different guardian (i.e., the parents).
The bottom line is, yes, a court could take guardianship and decision making power away from the husband and give it to the parents. I think this would be the case even if statute expressly grants these rights to the husband, because courts have inherent equity powers that can override statutory law in certain circumstnaces.
Personally I think Don is a product of the “FREE” berkely class that says do what feels good and FVCK all others. He sees the world in a ME vision. I am glad I am not related to this guy, he may have unplugged me just for my feelings about politics! Wake up Don, this guy wants money….all of it. When he gets it he will do the talk show deal and suck up more. This loser is playing into your hand. OK Don tell me how he deserves it…..
Goldy, of the current line a bit. Would it be possible for you to ‘adjust’ your blogging program to keep the most recent posts at the top of the main page. Many forums etc, have this function and it tends to keep good threads going and the lesser threads get settled towards the bottom. Thanks,
jpgee@206
WOW! A liberal idea I can agree with! Kudos jpgee!
zapporo @ 29 ‘By removing her feeding tube, she wull ultimately die a slow, horrible, painful death. Is that what you really want?’ From all that I have read from the medical professionals ‘she’ has no sense of feeling, no sense of pain, no one can say if it would be slow or not. I would not wish the decicion on anyone. One thing that I am sure of, the National Politicians have no right to be trying to overturn the state courts decisions. They have their plates full with the budgets, wars, etc. They should stick where they know ‘a little’ and not meddle in things that are not thier main concerns. GW stated today that “We in government have a duty to protect the weak, disabled and vulnerable,”, seems rather ironic coming from a cowboy that wants to cut most federal programs for the underprivelaged in our great society, seems kind of ironic for a warlord that bombs innocent neighborhoods in foreign countries (before you R’s start ranting about Iraq being ‘evil’ the public of Iraq had no choice in where they were born nor did you or I), seems kind of ironic for a mastermind that sides with the torture of prisoners whether they are prisoners of ‘war’ or just locked up. PS> Chuck…wow, we agree on something…that’s a start……lol
hey Idiot, here is a great job for you as president of WART. “Town sells chance to rule over testicle festival”
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/.....lly19.html
The LeftWingNut idea of compassion:
“Son, we’re gonna kill yer dawg….
But then you can keep ’em if ya want to!”
jpgee@209–
Read the fine-print AS YOU OBVIOUSLY DON’T QUALIFY!
RULE 12–You must have testicles bigger than a BB (now that disqualifies you right thar’ jpgee!)
And if that doesn’t do it, read
RULE 13–Yer testicles may not have been used to pump seminal fluid into the back-end of another dude.
jpgee-You are a funny little fella!
Hey Idiot, now you have ‘outed’ yourself. Remember how you used to love our ‘flings’ at the farm. Atleast that was before Mrs. C. found out your true sexual preferences. (ps…..remember, I practiced ‘safe sex’ with you always)
Watching the special meeting, debate over Terri, one could not help but note the posturing and body language of those who wanted to play God rather than leave it to the family. They ignored words of the law, courts, medical experts, and all evidance of testings. That not being enough shame on them, Terri’s court appointed guardian-ad-litem’s testimony fell on the brain-deads deaf ears and they ignored it also. The yays have won nothing yet, what they have done is walked over, stomped on and trashed every American’s rights and pushed swing voters away from them. Even Republicans do not share the parties sanctimonious hypocricy and the general public aired their views after the vote tally came in, saying they were leaving the Republican party. Those Repubican and Democrat Nay voters presented the matter in a sane, respectible and educated manner. Republican’s play in this case is similar to what Micheal Jackson did, aired on vidio and TV to aid his dwindling popularity. Look where it got him. Anyone who thinks with compassion would not want to air Terri in the manner she has been aired. There is such a thing as dying with dignity and privacy. What her life philosopy was and what her feelings were when she had some, may be a surprise. This feverish franic fanatic driven misdirected anger hiding under the mercy for life label might not set well with Terri is she had a stay out of my business attitude when not incapacitated. Those fanatic YAH Gods played Judge, Jury, Doctor, Lawyer, Merchant, Chief. It will come back to bit their pretenious pious ass.
All the while the Super-Power stood by on hold waiting to sign. I suspect, being of Super-Power mentality, if the same condition happened to Super-Power’s, he would want to be propped up, looking like the dummy he already is, by the Oval Office window for all gawkers to see him at least make the V for victory sign for lost lives in Iraq. They cry Mercy Mercy but Washington still executes lives. One voice speaking out against intervention by House was simply put by an endearing black woman during the Terri debate on the floor. House “MEDDLING” where you have no business to.
Chuck @ 205
Living in your bubble again, Chuckie? Where’s the money? There isn’t any. Michael Schiavo’s attorney hasn’t been paid since 2002 because there’s no money left to pay him. Just what do you think it costs to keep a vegetable alive? Not pennies a day. As for the “me” portion of your rant, you must be gazing into your mirror again, chanting “mirror mirror on the wall, who is the fairest of them all?”
Chee @ 213
Pull the plug on brain dead congressmen? Hmmm … now there’s an idea worth considering!
ARTIFICIAL NUTRITION AND HYDRATION: ETHICAL IMPLICATIONS AND CAREGIVER SUPPORT
ETHICAL PRINCIPLES
Despite the benefits of modern medicine, one of the greatest abuses of patients takes place in the arena of artificial feeding and hydration. Recently, at the end of a visit with a terminally ill patient an aide came in asking the patient if he was ready to eat. The patient told the aide that he did not want to eat. The aide brought the food in anyway. I proceeded to address the patient more directly in the presence of the aide. “Are you hungry Mr. Y? Do you want to eat?” “No,” he replied, “I’m not hungry.” The aide looked at me, then at him, then back at me and said, “Oh, he always says that. If we didn’t force him to eat he wouldn’t eat anything.” Though well-meaning, this happens far too often.
Patient autonomy is one of the cardinal principles of medical ethics. So also is the sanctity of life. When artificial nutrition or hydration is initiated in a patient who has been physician diagnosed as terminally ill, the interests of these two principles can become a matter of great debate. The reason for this conflict often goes far beyond the issue of ethics. In fact the reasons are multi-dimensional and involve issues ranging from the greedy to the malicious to guilt to inadequate coping with anticipatory grief to misinformation. Sadly, in our culture, where medicine, traditionally a holy kind of work, has been co-opted by business, the principle of respect for the sanctity of life sometimes becomes a means for making money.
CONFLICTING VALUES
The most often expressed request of the terminally ill and their families is that “You keep me/him/her comfortable.” Frequently, however, when the patient is unable to speak their wishes, the family, faced with impending loss is faced with options that may prolong life. Whether they receive these options as a result of their own questioning or others present the option, there are normally several reasons that they choose artificial support.
1) Fear of letting go. Families often keep a patient on tube feeding simply because the idea of letting go is too painful. If a crisis occurs in the life of a loved one, the family is often forced to make a decision as to the kinds of measures they will use to sustain life. Without the benefit of some form of advanced directives, the family is left to ponder what kinds of medical treatments might be available for their loved one several months hence: Will a cure of some sort be discovered? Will he/she awaken from the coma? Will he/she regain her speech? Additionally, they must confront the pain of deciding to let go. One daughter says of her mother, who lay comatose, “Two years ago she had a massive stroke…I decided to have them put in a feeding tube…Now, seeing her lie there like this, I wish to God I hadn’t.” When asked by a relative if he wants to continue seeing “your mama lay there like that” one son replies, “Yes, yes I do, if I can just have her a little longer.”
2) Guilt (“I’d be letting Daddy starve if I didn’t have a tube put in.”) At times nursing facilities nurture this guilt, using such words as starve or neglect. Occasionally, they even go into a description of the starvation process. One daughter had this lecture from a nursing home in which her mother was a patient. She sobbed deeply as she envisioned what they had told her would happen to Mom if they didn’t put a tube in her. Some nursing facilities will not even admit patients who are in a vegetative state without a feeding tube (Isn’t this discrimination? …Just a thought…). We will address the possible motivations of such facilities later in this article. Suffice it to say ethical questions should be addressed to those who have a familiarity with ethical decision making. The starvation argument is not only bad ethics; it is bad medicine.
3) Religious concerns. Rightfully, there is much concern about an increasing callousness to sanctity of life issues. At the forefront of these concerns are often religious prohibitions/concerns. Many families fear that they may be encountering the “slippery slope” of “humanism” if they consider letting go. Again, the issue can often be understood better if a helper invites the family to give consideration to other ways of viewing a loved one’s plight. If artificial support was not initiated or was stopped in a terminal patient would the patient’s death change in any fundamental way? “I understand what you’re saying about not wanting to be responsible for ending a life. But perhaps there is another way to think about it. First, really is her terminal illness that would take her. Second, in not starting artificial therapy, you’re choosing to let her go the way God would have taken her, naturally. Third, in starting artificial therapy, you’re still making a choice, a choice that may keep her like this.” One choice always minimizes another. In this case, to choose for sanctity of life minimizes and forestalls the sanctity of death. Nonetheless, we have nothing but support and blessing for those genuinely feeling the need for artificial support as a result of faith or religion or spirituality. Still, it may be helpful to recognize that many faith traditions support the withholding of nutrition / hydration if it does not enhance patient comfort and quality of life: “The morally appropriate foregoing or withdrawing of artificial nutrition and hydration from a permanently unconscious person is not abandoning that person. Rather, it is accepting the fact that the person has come to the end of his or her pilgrimage and should not be impeded from taking the final step.”
4) Persuasion by medical personnel. As noted earlier, the drive by medical staff to “keep the patient alive” may have many motives. Death is often defeat for the medical profession. Sometimes, there is money to be made in the continuation of nutrition and hydration: lots of money. For many of us there is a preconceived, though not medically well-founded, concern that lack of water and food causes a painful death. However, much research indicates that this is not the case.
The body and the spirit together begin a process of shutting down. The patient will often begin to emotionally withdraw near the time of death. There may be some flourishes of activity in which a patient will try to accomplish some necessary tasks, but in general, the patient is preparing to leave. Some tribal customs have natives leaving the tribe to die alone, not unlike Moses dying on the mount. As the spirit of the person begins to prepare to die, so also does the body. Both the means to process food and liquid begin to shut down. The patient naturally becomes dehydrated. This is normal.
If you attempt to hydrate a dehydrated and terminal patient you risk:
Increasing urine output possibly necessitating a catheter and its associated discomfort;
Increasing lung secretions and possibly the need for suctioning;
Increased nausea, vomiting, and bloating;
Increased likelihood of swelling.2
It should be pointed out that there are cases where hydration, even in the case of the imminent patient, may be appropriate and called for.3
Indeed, there are ill effects to dehydration, most of them relating to oral problems.4 These can be overcome by good mouth care.
In discussing artificial hydration and nutrition careful consideration must be given to all the principles of medical ethics. Unfortunately, the issue is debated in an atmosphere of stress arising from financial, religious, medical, and enormous emotional pressures. Consequently, the discussion often fails to take into account all the principles of medical ethics that include “the alleviation of suffering;…(and) the right to die with dignity.”5 Furthermore, it would appear that there is considerable misinformation about the issue. If caregivers knew (inasmuch as one can know such things) that their loved one would be free of suffering even if they don’t have a feeding tube or hydration, it might make their choice much easier. Indeed, if they knew that suffering might be increased and prolonged with these measures, the choice of the caregiver might be eased enough to eliminate their suffering. Regardless, informed consent is another universal medical ethic that must be respected. Caregivers should be fully apprised of the implications for both the present and the future of the patient.
CAREGIVER SUPPORT
For the outsider the issues may seem quite clear. But to the husband who is facing the loss of his wife of 39 years, the matter is far less esoteric. This must be kept in mind by anyone who desires to give meaningful help. In this spirit, we offer the following supportive measures that we have used with families facing feeding/hydration decisions.
Bless the family’s choice and patient autonomy. The principle of patient autonomy should be kept in mind. The helper should resist the urge, however well intended, to impose his own understanding upon the situation. In spite of all the foregoing reasons that hydration and nutrition may be contradictory to a patient’s well being, it is the patient/family choice that must be honored. In many cases families have learned much about life in moving forward with choices that might not have been the ones we would have made. It is important to resist the urge to categorize the caregiver based upon their choice. For instance, if a family decides to initiate artificial feeding/hydration it’s very easy to presume that they are in denial. Likewise, it would be easy to judge discontinuing such feedings as a disregard for life and/or euthanasia.
Honor the humanity implicit in the dilemma. The family is facing a dilemma that, in some sense, leaves them feeling they are making a very real choice to end the life of their loved one. Frequently, there isn’t a lot of clearheaded logic occurring in the mind of family; they see only their choice (cause: refusing feeding / hydration) followed by the loved one’s death (effect). They often cannot yet face the reality that apart from all technological interventions their loved one is certainly days or weeks away from death. Indeed, in a moral/theological sense, they may already be in God’s presence. The gracious helper tends the wounds of both the family’s anticipatory grieving and the coinciding guilt that is part of making end of life decisions for another.
Hear deeply the true concerns of the caregiver/family. The family is frequently engaged in a very thorny game of what if. In the scenarios that go on in their minds, they ask themselves an endless series of questions. Unfortunately, the questions themselves may often paralyze the caregiver/s. “It seems like you don’t really win either way you go. If you have the feeding tube started, she lives but may not have any quality life. If you don’t feed her she’ll certainly die. It’s hard to be responsible for those kinds of choices for another, especially someone you love.”
Invite the caregiver to consider shifting responsibility. Often the burden of guilt is so great for the caregiver that he/she may not be able to accurately see the scope of the situation. The caregiver may not be able to see that the disease is responsible for the terminal nature of the illness. Indeed, the disease is responsible that such a choice must be made. When the caregiver makes the choice to discontinue/ not start feedings, they are simply accepting the reality of the illness. Further, it is helpful to assist the caregiver to direct her/his thoughts towards what the patient would want. Was the patient a strong, independent person? Would the patient consider life on a feeding tube a quality existence? This moves the arena of discussion out of the caregiver’s guilt (frequently a source of emotional paralysis). It may also be helpful, depending on the spiritual resources of the caregiver, to inquire as to the place of God with respect to the patient’s illness. What would happen to the loved one if it weren’t for the technology currently available? Is God not able to save the person apart from the technology if God wanted to? Under natural circumstances would not the person die?
The task of the helper is to support the caregiver and/or the patient in their choice, to support the medical team in providing information, and to provide opportunities for meaningful reflection and insight. The task is not, nor can it ever be, to make the choice for them.
___________________________
This page is for informational purposes only. You should always make health care decisions with the consultation and advice of a licensed physician. You should NOT make these important decisions without such consultation. We do not merely suggest this, we BELIEVE IT.
Superman loved Republicans more than Democrats.
Reeve, who is a liberal Democrat, explained his politically active career: “I became politically active in high school, protesting the Vietnam War. And when I went to Cornell, I became involved in environmental issues. And then, as an adult, I became involved in First Amendment issues and funding for the arts. And now that I am disabled, of course my main focus is on the quality of life for all disabled people and doing everything I can to help scientists make progress toward cures.” Reeve further explained his personal political preference for the Democrat party saying, “Actually, the Republicans have done more for the disabled and for funding medical research over the past eight years than the Democrats.
so, if you are a liberal democrat you are allowed to live. Right? Hitler-D is alive, walking among you. Follow lock step or they will GAS YOU!!
reeves stood for all the things republicans stand against.
With one sentence, you’ve altered his whole life’s meaning.
That is just the most assinign conclusion anyone could possibly derive from a single sentence about funding research.
chardonnay are you in a mental hospital?
You have accused a man of beating his wife, stealing her money, denying her health care, and now you have redefined the life work of a person, with one deranged thought.
you are crazy, and i’m being kind.
DON @ 200
once again you forgot to take your prozac. you are twisting what I said. I accept that & expect nothing more from you. Afterall Ron Sims is your hero, you both have zero tolerance for others yet scream and force others to show tolerance. This is what is hurting your party Don. Dr Cranford is 100% supportive of killing alzheimers patients. I pray for you.
AF @ 219
assinign ??? I’m confused. Don help me out here.
Chris@218. Superman numner one loved Lane. That is Lois as in Lane not Mary Lane as in with Rossi.
asinine, but “ASS”-inign sounds more like you.
obsessive compulsive fits into this dementia you have.
artificial feeding @ 217
I have no doubt the do-it-our-way-or-else crowd will jump on your shit for posting this. Your offense? Bringing a voice of reason to this debate. Why? Because reason is their mortal enemy. Their world operates on reflex and made-up facts. Its fuel is faith. Truth destroys fantasy, therefore fantasy must destroy truth — it’s eat or get eaten.
In recent years my wife and I have experienced the deaths of several elderly relatives in rapid succession. Our mothers both suffered strokes, were bedridden, and unable to communicate at the end. Both were close to age 90, had terminal illnesses, and no chance of improving. The issue of prolonging their lives with artificial feeding and/or hydration was discussed with doctors and hospice nurses, and rejected. The natural process of dying was explained to us. It is as described in the post above. It took one of them three weeks to expire, the other one, one week. Of course that was not an easy thing to go through, but prolonging it would have been far worse. We did the ethical thing by letting nature take its course when their bodies could no longer keep the flame of life burning.
The ethical issues are not exactly the same when the patient is relatively young and what is killing them is not old age but a traumatic and untimely illness or accident, as in the case of Terri Schiavo. In these cases, the body is not yet worn out, and may keep going for years, while the patient’s conscious being hovers on the boundary between life and death — or even when it has crossed over. Here, the decision is tougher but the principle is the same. The person’s life is over, and prolonging it is needless cruelty. Yet even here, we hesitate.
No one is advocating euthenasia in any case or circumstance, although the unreasoning minds of the knee-jerk wing of the Kneejerk Party often try to win debate points by extrapolating allowing nature to take its course into deliberate killing. When Terri Schiavo dies, her life was taken by the illness that felled her, not the people who decided to shut off the force-feeding tube. This point is utterly lost on the knee-jerk crowd. They insist that a person who has hovered on the edge of death for 15 years, and has no prospect of ever returning to the living, be forced to keep one toe in this world — because it serves some ideological or emotional need of their own, and to hell with the patient.
That’s not ethical, it’s cruel. But then, we have come to expect cruelty from these people. Theirs is not a deliberate and premeditated cruelty so much as the cruelty that springs from ignorance. We should judge them harshly anyway. Ignorance is a matter of choice. People can choose to not be ignorant. When they inflict pain and suffering on others because they willfully choose to be ignorant, they should be held responsible for their choices.
Asinine @ 219
I think that was more than a sentence, that was an entire paragraph. BTW, we don’t buy your AF BS either. Sounds like Julia Patterson wrote it. HOWEVER, you posted it on the perfect website HORSESASinine.orgasm lol
please take your meds, you are teetering on violence, remember tolerance, diversity & all that other BS.
white wine @ 220
I’m not on any medications whatsoever, but I’m convinced you’ve already taken your daily dosage of stupid pills today.
Anon@217. My mother had terminal cancer. To spare her the painfullness of the last stages of cancer, when she began refusing to eat which does occur in such cases, our long time family doctor who delivered all of my mothers children at home did not recommend tube feeding. I questioned this as a neophite would wanting to preserve her life as long as could be. His explanation was enough to convince us children that tube feeding was out of the question. Nature knew best, my mother had made peace with death, wanted to be free of pain, ready to meet her maker. She passed away naturally in her sleep hours after our decision, brain facilites in tact. Mmny if still able, can will themselves to die. Especially if in pain or have lost their life partner whom they feel they will be reunited with in the herefter they believe in they lose the will to live. Giving up the ghost!
Best of the Web Today – March 21, 2005
By JAMES TARANTO
Till Death Do Them Part?
“…Supporters of Michael Schiavo’s effort to end his wife’s life have asked how conservatives, who claim to believe in the sanctity of marriage, can fail to respect his husbandly authority. The most obvious answer is that a man’s authority as a husband does not supersede his wife’s rights as a human being–a principle we never thought we’d see liberals question.
But why do those of us who aren’t right-to-life absolutists side with Mrs. Schiavo’s parents, who want to keep her alive, over her husband, who wants her dead? It’s a fair question, and it raises another one: What kind of husband is Michael Schiavo?
According to news reports, Mr. Schiavo lives with a woman named Jodi Centonze, and they have two children together. Surely any court would consider this prima facie evidence of adultery. And this is no mere fling; a sympathetic 2003 profile in the Orlando Sentinel described Centonze as Mr. Schiavo’s “fiancée.” Mr. Schiavo, in other words, has virtually remarried. Short of outright bigamy, his relationship with Centonze is as thoroughgoing a violation of his marriage vows as it is possible to imagine.
The point here is not to castigate Mr. Schiavo for behaving badly. It would require a heroic degree of self-sacrifice for a man to forgo love and sex in order to remain faithful to an incapacitated wife, and it would be unreasonable to hold an ordinary man to a heroic standard.
But it is equally unreasonable to let Mr. Schiavo have it both ways. If he wishes to assert his marital authority to do his wife in, the least society can expect in return is that he refrain from making a mockery of his marital obligations. The grimmest irony in this tragic case is that those who want Terri Schiavo dead are resting their argument on the fiction that her marriage is still alive.
I think her job is stupid pill collector at the rabbit farm.
If this person represents the republican party, how the hell did they get in the white house?
There is no way to reason with such hysterical fantasy.
so gas em all, huh Don? all those disabled people, old people, different people, put em in a vault and turn the gas on. Unless they proclaim the liberal God Democrat, their life is not spared. tough decision but thank God you are man enough to make those tough decisions. Bless you Esq.
Don@175 – Why is it so hard for some people to let the medically hopeless go?
Don,
Prevent anyone, even the most healthy among us, from eating and we’ll all die. Is that what you call letting go. The only support she needs to survive is to be provided food. My son would have died if I had not provided him food, would that have been just “letting him go”? The homeless on the street would die if someone did not provide them food, should we just “let them go”? Let me guess because she can’t feed herself the food, that is why she should die. Lots of handicapped people cannot feed themselves, should we withhold food from them as well?
Chee @ 231
My heart breaks for you Chee.
But terminal cancer is not the same as Terri’s condition. Terri is NOT terminal and as has been shown by the woman in Kansas the status of those in vegetative states can change in a moment or in 20 long years.
WHY won’t anyone answer about erring on the side of LIFE as you are so willing to do with those on death row?
How many times have we heard and how many examples have we been given about DNA research changing the facts of a case and exonerating a few on death row as a reason to protect all on death row?
Why not err on that same side of life for a KNOWN INNOCENT as Terri?
Why WON’T you all answer that question?
What was the exact date Michael Beelzabub Schiavo declared his wifes “choice” or right to die? Anyone know? Press release anyone?
Was it before or after he was awarded the million+ settlement?
The court case where he proclaimed his love for Terri and vowed to go to school with that money so he would know how to care for her.
And where in Terri’s medical history does it state she was bulimic?
You see, I am trying to connect the dots…..just doesn’t add up.
she has been forced to live for 15 years. she would have been dead 15 years ago, without the doctors sticking a tube through her abdomen, and forcibly pumping her full of food and water.
she is not “choosing” to live, she is being animated by force.
What right does anyone have, to force feed a person against the closest family wishes?
This man tried everything in his power for 4 years to rehabilitate this woman.
He finally faced the reality, that her brain was gone.
FORCED TO LIVE AGAINST HER BODY’S OWN WILL.
Her body should have died so many years ago.
Whats next from the hysterical right wing, taxidermy?
NEWS FLASH
***************
SUPERMAN SURVIVED 9 YEARS AFTER ACCIDENT
Incident May 1995, Died-Oct 2004
THERESA MARIA SCHINDLER schiavo
STILL LIVING AFTER 15 YEARS
ACCIDENT 1990-PRESENT
Don@219
The money is in the talk shows, mark my word, you havent seen the last of this leach…
af @ 238
I force fed my 3 babies. today they are 23, 17 and 6. I am so glad I forced them to take the bottle.
@221. Excellant article, well covered all aspects. Religious rights in seats of power want make everyone go by their limited perspective. There want to override the rights of others to freedom of religion and that right extends to atheist thinking also. Blatant invasion of our rights by co-mingling of CHURCH & STATE is an absolute violation. I don’t care what religion Bushy is or his cabinet or anyone else, just don’t lay your should and shouldn’ts founded from your religious belief on my doorstep after you took a sworn oath to represent impartially the WE, WE is not YOU or those of your faith. WE is All, all encompassing. All people are not pro-life. All are not against right to die. This Terri issue is based on dogma, religious rightwing thinking. Unconstitutional.
Did they have potential to leave the infant state they were in, or did you expect them to remain helpless babies forever?
Did you force feed them with a scalpal and a motorized pump when they refused the nipple?
chuck @ 40
Are you and chardonnay in the same mental institution?
Are you being force fed republican propoganda against your will?
Does chardonnay have 3 babies, or is she trying to force feed the rabbits that supply her with stupid pills?
186. Cui bono? No thanks. Quality of life rather than Quanity.
AF @ 238 –
25 years ago my newborn son was “forced to live” while being nursed and fed for 6 months.
25 years ago my newborn son was “forced to live” because he couldn’t hold his own bottle to feed himself (not to mention PREPARING the damned thing)till aboout 5 months old.
25 years ago my newborn son was “forced to live” because he couldn’t feed himself using his own fingers till about 7 months.
How about this fellow? How long do you think he was “forced to live” because he couldn’t feed himself? http://www.kmaynard.com/index.html
What about YOU, kiddo, how long were you “forced to live” because you were helpless?
How long were your children “forced to live” because they were helpless?
186. Cui bono? No thanks. Quality of life rather than Quanity.
Comment by Chee— 3/21/05 @ 11:17 am
Yoohoo…CHEEtoh… it means WHO BENEFITS?
Clearly Michael.
Did kyle eat?
Did they need to cut him open to feed him?
Babies are allowed to die when they have no expectation to live.
Going back to my 3 year old neighbor with a HIGHLY CURABLE FORM OF LEUKEMIA… yep, he had a feeding tube inserted surgically as well a ports implanted surgically in his chest and spine… and golly gosh he was given a very high expectation to live and has done so — his last chemo, 3 long years later, is in May.
Note: he was DIAGNOSED at age 3 and clearly able to feed himself at that time.
@236. Your full of bull. Did you just get a brain fart. Your heart breaks for yourself not Chee. Of course, nothing is ever the same. Never the same river. But, departing is departing, a final to earthbound days. Err where it’s comfy.
artificial feeding@243
There are countless mentally handicapped and/or permanently paralyzed people, are you suggesting since they will never be able to feed themselves they too should be left to starve to death?
Righties,
Take at look at Terry Schiavo’s brain. (Scroll down a bit to see.)
This is not life. Without all our modern technology and know-how this woman would not be breathing.
All the sentimental pictures you’ve seen is just you reading your morbid fears and juvenile desire to control events into that poor woman’s face.
From Judge Greer’s ruling:
At first blush, the video of Terry Schiavo appearing to smile and look lovingly at her mother seemed to represent cognition. This was also true for how she followed the Mickey Mouse balloon held by her father. The court has carefully viewed the videotapes as requested by counsel and does find that these actions were neither consistent nor reproducible. For instance, Terry Schiavo appeared to have the same look on her face when Dr. Cranford rubbed her neck. Dr. Greer testified she had a smile during his (non-videoed) examination. Also, Mr. Schlinder tried several more times to have her eyes follow the Mickey Mouse balloon but without success. Also, she clearly does not consistently respond to her mother. The court finds that based on the credible evidence, cognitive function would manifest itself in a constant response to stimuli.
Righties, your position on this like so many of your other stands is completely bankrupt. If somehow you get your way on this then this country has truly gone completely nuts.
af@248 – Babies are allowed to die when they have no expectation to live.
Terri has all expectations of living – dumbass. The only way she is expected to die is when assholes like you don’t let her eat.
Nice cynicism.
Very illustrative of your mindset.
See, the difference is kiddo, you made a choice (and factoring in your cycnicism we’ll still give you the benefit of the doubt that it was a heartbreaking difficult choice) with your mother.
I’d give my right arm to have been able to make that choice – but I wasn’t. They kept running in and out of what should habve been a simple surgery, ‘we lost her’, ‘we brought her back’, ‘her heart is weak’, ‘we’ll put her in a coma to let it strengthen and you’ll have decisions to make’, ‘you no longer have to make decisions’, “I’m sorry she died on the table”.
John, do your research – she IS breathing on her own. Her heart IS beating on its own. we dopn’t know if (or how much she can “eat”) because Micahel won’t ALLOW that swallowing test.
Taking a position between doctor and patient is bad enough, aside from being un constitutional.
Now they want to take the place of god.
God does not save people with machines, and atrificial stimuli.
The right is wrong here, and the sooner we put the kybosh to it, the better.
Everyone reading this, needs to contact their reps. in D.C., and make it clear, this is not acceptable.
You then need to get your living wills in order, and we also need a right to die bill, or “butt out” bill as I like to call it, sent to the legislature.
These hysterical right wing wack jobs riding this for political mileage, need to have their wings clipped.
The only assholes here, are the ones sticking their noses into private affairs, as right wing wack jobs will always do.
This is none of your business. It has to do with the wife, the husband, and their doctors.
Not some politicians, looking to take attention off their dirty deeds currently pasted all over the globe.
Affidavit From Terri’s Nurse
http://www.terrisfight.org/doc.....090203.htm
john@252 – This is not life. Without all our modern technology and know-how this woman would not be breathing.
Are you really this stupid?
Since when can you define what life is for the rest of us?
She can breathe on her own, her heart beats on its own, and her body keeps itself alive without external support, just like yours. She needs food, just like you. She needs help getting it and you want her to starve to death because she can’t feed it to herself.
How many millions of people are alive today because of our “Modern Technology and know-how”. Without it they would not be breathing either. Should all of them have been left to die?
Christopher Reeve could not feed himself and he needed a machine to breathe. Should they not have fed him? Should they not have let a machine breathe for him?
Terri has no expectation to live, without forcing something into her abdomen.
They cut her open to force her body to live, like some grotesque marionette.
She will never regain musculature, or brain tissue.
Are they going to give her a new brain so she can have at least some knowledge of all the molestation they are putting her through?
It has to do with the wife, the husband – Comment by artificial feeding— 3/21/05 @ 11:48 am
Yea and the other family: the common law wifey, the kiddies he spawned with her.
Such a devoted guy.
AF @ 256
the vote is over, 58 democrats in the house voted YEA. The Senate was unanimous. The President signed it. It’s a done deal.
Whatcha gonna say to them?
Terri has no expectation to live -Comment by artificial feeding— 3/21/05 @ 11:55 am
Except that she has lived for 15 years.
Anonym”ass” @ 61
Do you think anyone has the right to invade this sanctity?
If you wanted to let your brain dead, never to regain an ounce of cognitive function spouse, die, as per her wishes to you and a promise you made to her, would you welcome some politician into your time of ultimate sacrifice, to force you to go against her wishes in such a way?
Hint: If you say yes, youre lying.
Oh here we go, gwdummy is gonna tell us its hard work, and what he doing, well,.. its…..hard!!
Gwdummy: “we always want to err on the side of life”
Ya, except when it has to do with oil, there, gwd!
What sanctity?
The sanctity of the marriage?? He moved on kiddo – living with a woman for 10 years – that qualifies as A COMMON LAW marriage – producing a couple kids with her.
Is that your definition of sanctity?
Give me a break.
sanctity of private life and death decisions, in a family.
sanctity… what a joke.
Go read post #232 and try to untwist the moral and logical pretzel you’ve created.
Anon @ 258
that testimony is very powerful, especially knowing Judge Greer had family ties to that facility. So if you are well connected to the Right to Die movement you CAN murder your spouse. I see. Hire George Felon and Dr Craphead, take patient to hospice facility, afterall hospice is where you go to die.
Golly, and here I thought Mom and dad were family too.
Who knew?
DD @ 265,
stop talking about how hard you are.
af@256 – God does not save people with machines, and atrificial stimuli.
God does not but man does. I hope you never have a heart attack, kidney disease, cancer, car accident, allergic reaction, you get the picture. Without machines and “Artificial” stimuli you would die. CPR = Artificial Stimuli, Penicillin = Artificial Stimuli, Chemo, Radiation, Dialysis, scalpels, all Machines or Artificial Stimuli. The list goes on and on.
She is not brain dead. I would agree if she was to not have a machine keep her alive. That is not the case here. She only needs a machine to eat. And that is only because her husband would not allow them to feed her orally.
AF – Terri has no expectation to live, without forcing something into her abdomen.
Neither do you. The only difference is you force something in via your mouth, although you do talk out of your ass so I might be wrong there.
Chris @ whereever
Look at the pictures of her brain idiot!!!!
Not in our lifetimes will anybody be able to fix something like that!
How typical of the right. Take one statement out of context and ignore all the rest! You’ve totally gone off the deep end on this one Chris! All that matters is that you and your “team” get your way.
“Remember Terri is alive. She is not in a coma. Although there are a range of opinions, neurologists who have examined her insist today that she is not in a persistent vegetative state. She breathes on her own – like you or me. She is not on a respirator. She is not on life support of any type. She does not have a terminal condition. Moreover, she has a mom and father and siblings – her closest blood relatives – who love her, who say she is responsive to them, who want her to live, who will financially support her. These are the facts.” -Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, a heart surgeon by
profession, March 20, 2005
None of you “let her starve to death” idiots will answer a direct question.
How many millions of people are alive today because of our “Modern Technology and know-how”. Without it they would not be breathing either. Should all of them have been left to die?
Christopher Reeve could not feed himself and he needed a machine to breathe. Should they not have fed him? Should they not have let a machine breathe for him?
There are countless mentally handicapped and/or permanently paralyzed people, are you suggesting since they will never be able to feed themselves they too should be left to starve to death?
Regardless of the attempts to state otherwise – SHE IS NOT BRAIN DEAD!
During a debate last week in the state legislature, he (Florida State Senator Dan Webster) took a $100 bill, crumpled it up and threw it on the Senate floor, saying, “Some of our lives are like crisp $100 dollar bills, some are a little crumpled up, some are soiled and may not be the life we’d like to have, but it’s still life.
Terri Schiavo is still alive.”
Yet, because Terri’s condition is less than perfect, her
husband, a state judge, and a few doctors (one of whom is an advocate of euthanasia), have determined that Terri should be put to death.
John@274
So she does not have the brain activity of a normal healthy person so you want her to starve to death. Millions of people in this world don’t have “normal” brain activity (yourself included). Should they all be left to die as well? Who decides how much brain activity is enough to be allowed to live? You? Let’s go into hospitals all around the world and use John’s guidelines as to quality of life and adequate brain function and start killing these helpless, or should I say worthless, people off. John decided it’s not a good life so let ‘em starve.
John says – Not in our lifetimes will anybody be able to fix something like that!
How many other things will not be “fixed” in our lifetime? You want all the people suffering from those other currently incurable afflictions to be left to die as well?
We may not be able to fix your mental disorder in out lifetime either, but you are allowed to live, just allow her the same.
John says – All that matters is that you and your “team” get your way.
No, all that matters is that she be allowed to live and continue to be loved by her family. This is not about sides/teams (except to you).
Lets call Janet Reno, what would she do? Call in the ATF and raid the hospice facility.
How about the good doctor joycelyn elders, maybe she could shed some real light on this issue. she was such a visionary. you dems sure know how to pick em.
It’s an idiot question Chris and you know it. Technology is great if it means people can have a real functioning life that they wouldn’t have otherwise.
Terry Schiavo is hardly having a “real life”. She is a shell of a human being and you guys want to keep her alive until she slips away “naturally”?
What is going to pay for her upkeep? The state? Oh, that’s socialism, you guys are against that. I get it.. Sales of “Terri’s Story”. The corruption of this disgusts me from Tom DeLay to the Bush Brothers to the countless emotional nut cases that relentlessly continue to poke their sanctimonious noses into this tragedy.
Brain activity? Look at the pictures fool! Much of her brain is gone! I guess if you were in her place you’d want to live too and your upkeep would be paid by “Chris’ Story”.
Hey, how about we get Deborah Senn and Mike KKKriedler to work on forcing insurance companies to deny benefits for the “disabled.” They could get Dr Cranford and George Felos and perhaps AF here to provide testimonies on why these people should DIE!
what is really funny, all of you democrats/liberals here on this forum, are not addressing the US Reps and Senators that sided with the Republicans on this. What do you say about that?
Dear John, Char and those who value life,
It is a waste of our time to try to convince the culture of death groupies the value of Terri’s life or the value of an unborn childs life. In their eyes, had she been a death row prisoner instead of her husbands prisoner, she’d be worth saving. In their eyes, had she been an abused donkey, an ape in a window or a lab rat, she would be worth fighting for. As a human being, in their eyes, the life she has, such as it is, has no value.
They interefe with the public mention of God and mock the private belief in God, but see no disconnect, no momumental hypocrisy in PLAYING God.
*sorry, not John…Chris.
Yes. these are the real Democrats! Joseph Kennedy and Hitler would be so proud of them all. The Democrats will GAS YOU and CENSOR you, take away your property if you do not swear to their party.
Save the felons, the whales and protect pedophile teachers. These are the Democrats.
Dear “Keep her alive at any cost to make me feel good” folks,
Dori Monson aka “Dorky Moron”, unapologetic Bush shill, a guy I almost never agree with on Kiro 710AM says that Terri died 12 years ago and only her cerebral cortex is keeping her going.
He says that Michael Schiavo has been unjustly “demonized”.
He says the lurid stories of abuse, strangulation, etc. are “rumors” and have no credibility.
I’d never thought I’d see the day that I’d agree with this guy!
Dear “Keep her alive at any cost to make me feel good” folks,-Comment by John— 3/21/05 @ 1:18 pm
Michael has nothing to lose by divorcing her.
Society has nothing to lose by keeping her alive.
Her family has loudly and publicly expressed the desire, the love and the means to keep their child alive.
What is the problem?
Certainly not the cost – that’s been addressed.
Certainly not the sactity of the marriage – that’s been violated long and often when ‘loving hubby’ took and kept a common law wife of 10 years and reproduced a family with her -while still married to Terri – I guess that qualifies as the sactity of adultery, the sactity selfishness.
Why are you culture of death groupies so damned anxious to execute this woman by starvation?
You still haven’t answered the question of why not err on the side of life, on the side of hope, on the side of discovery and potenttial
I know why.
Because if society agrees this womans life has value then it royally screws your theory that NOT all life has value. It royally screws your theory about unborn life, and euthanasia.
How do you look in the mirror when you advocate death for the innocent?
John@286
Well if Dori Monson says she should be starved I change my mind. Please John, what a load of shit. My opinion is not based upon what Dori (who just recently crossed over to the right side of political thinking) or any other person tells me it should be. I, unlike you, have a mind of my own. Sean Hannity has a doctor on his show this afternoon that has spent 10 hours with Terri and says she can possibly be rehabilitated. How long have you been a doctor John? How many hours have you spent with Terri? I think I’ll rely on the information from him over information from you to make a common sense decision.
anon @288
because it falls in line with the progressive/liberal/democrat mind…that they are a much more intelligent breed. They are more educated, more sophisticated, more forward thinking. Is’t with that ever so arrogant ego that they will tell you, every chance they get, that they indeed are all these things. They will infact tell you they know what is best for you! US, the moronic mass.
Don, am I fairly accurate here? You would agree with me that you are indeed a better human being and more deserving that say a conservative, a republican? WAIT….before you answer that, count to ten, maybe take another prozac. I don’t want your blood pressure to sky rocket.
She IS brain dead.
Are you a doctor?
real doctors say she is brain dead.
Is the fact the husband cheated on his brain dead wife, cause for the republican party to violate the constitution?
There is nothing left in her head, that will ever amount to more than twitching and involountary movement.
Thats a fact. All the movements and moaning you’ve been duped with, goes on whenever she is concious, regardless if anyone is there or not.
republicans need to stick their noses into everything, while bitching about big brother.
republican is synonymous with hypocrite. The two words are completely interchangeable in a sentence.
So her heart beating on its own and her lungs taking in air in their are just twitching heh?
Still waiting for an answer – why are you all so heavily invested in her being put to death?
DD – no one says she is brain dead, because she’s not. Show me someone that has a medical degree and is familiar with her records that says she is brain dead.
DD says – real doctors say she is brain dead.
Name them.
anon @ 288
Because I’ve looked at the pictures of her brain. There’s not much there. I agree with Dori Monson (never thought I’d say that). She is not “alive”. She died years ago. She is just a body sustained by a feeding tube and a still functioning cerebral cortex.
Michael Schiavo is a widower. When a widower re-marries does it mean he stops caring about his deceased spouse?
This case is about the right to refuse medical treatment. The courts in Florida decided that Terry Schiavo would not want this.
You want to second-guess the judges, the hospice workers and Terry Schiavo herself. You think you know better. That is so arrogant and shameful.
anon @ 232
When you don’t like the message, go after the messenger. So typical. What’s so awful about Schiavo having a girlfriend? His wife has been brain-dead for 15 years.
Or do you think someone whose spouse is a tube feeding case should be deprived of human companionship and love?
Wingers sure are sanctimonious judgmental bastards.
Almost forgot. Yes, I VALUE Terri Schiavo’s LIFE.
NEVER should anyone’s un-sentient remains be a platform for ANOTHER’s POLITICAL AGENDA!
char @ 234
I can understand your insecurity about this issue, Chardonnay, as it sounds like you’re nearly a tube-feeding case yourself.
It’s not awful Don – it’s hypocritical. See post #232 – James Taranto says it far better than I ever will and I’m bored with constantly having to repeat myself.
Oh John, I get it now!
YOU looked at the pics of her brain – well then hell, go ahead and just shoot that poor innocent sucker, it’s a far more efficient way of putting her to death than starving her.
And it that bullet would at least be far more honest.
af @ 238
Now there’s an idea. Yeah, I wouldn’t put it past these people to have their loved ones stuffed and plop ’em in a rocking chair in the living room. Bates Motel redux.
anon @ 247
Your link is totally irrelevant. This guy is a sentient human being, not a vegetable.
all @ all
http://libertytothecaptives.ne.....eport.html
TERRI brain dead?
anon @ 302
A bullet would be euthanasia. Removing a feeding tube is refusing medical treatment – something Terri Schiavo would have wanted! As the courts ruled! But you know better!
How can you look at yourself in the mirror?
anon @ 263
This isn’t living, it’s living death.
excerpt from wikipedia
Since Mr. Schiavo’s petitioning the court to remove his wife’s feeding tube, questions about the cause of Schiavo’s collapse have been raised by Schiavo’s family, and by Dr. Hammesfahr, a neurologist they hired to examine her in 2002.
A bone scan
(http://www.zimp.org/stuff/bone.jpg)
(http://www.hospicepatients.org.....sition.txt)
done one year after her injury showed (according to the radiologist who evaluated it) that she had also suffered previous traumatic injuries to multiple ribs (on both sides), to both sacroiliac joints, to both knees, to both ankles, to several thoracic vertebrae, and to her right thigh, plus a minor compression fracture of the L1 vertebra. Ms. Schiavo’s family did not know of the existence of this scan until November, 2002. Forensic pathologist Dr. Michael Baden, has suggested that physical trauma, specifically a head injury, might have caused Ms. Schiavo’s condition, though in a later interview he agreed the bulimia/hypokalemia explanation was possible.Upon becoming aware of the bone scan report possibly suggesting abuse-related injuries, the Schindlers petitioned Judge Greer for a full evidentiary hearing to evaluate the new evidence. On November 22, 2002 Judge Greer denied the motion, stating that the issue of trauma 12 years earlier was irrelevant to the current case.
anon @ 269
Another example of attacking the messenger, in this case the judge. Judge Greer has “ties” to the facility therefore he wants to “murder” Terri? It appears you have run out of stupid pills and are now eating rabbit pellets.
Don @ 308
Exactly. Anon isn’t on the side of “life”. She’s on the side of “living death”. A living dead person is a perfect vessel to advance a political agenda through. You can coax her into smiling for the camera or tracking a balloon through the air.
Terry Schiavo is a bat anon can use to beat her political adversaries with.
After 15 years if anything could have been done for Terri, it would have been done by now. How many years has she been used as a political football by Jeb Bush and now by Tom DeLay and Jeb’s big brother.
Correction to my previous comments:
Terri has a still functioning “brain stem”. Her “cerebral cortex” is pretty much all gone.
Here is good overall discussion including the “swallowing” issue.
Oh really? 15 years ago unborn babies with heart defects died. Today they have the advantage of in utero surgery in live.
No progress in your world eh John?
By the way, what’s that electronic thing you get to play on here? Oh yes a personal computer – unheard of not too many years ago.
Carry a cell phone John? Unheard of 15 years ago.
Zap your popcorn in a microwave John? Unheard of 15 years ago.
Enjoy your porn on digital TV John? Or via satellite? Unheard of 15 years ago.
Grab your morning latte there babe? Unheard of 15 years ago.
Hybrid cars?
Clean fuel?
Mars rover?
Stem cell research?
4D ultrasound?
MRI’s?
Cat Scan?
Lazer eye surgery?
Optical exploratory surgery (as opposed to invasive)?
ALL UNHEARD OF IN THE RECENT PAST
anon @ 313
Point anywhere that can give anyone a glimmer of hope that this woman can live a half-way decent life. I’m open. Let’s see what you’ve got.
I hope it’s not stem-cell research. Bush has pretty much hobbled that one in this country for the time being.
Oh bullshit – get out of your talking points and do some research. He hasn’t hobbled anything. He won’t let federal funds be used but private enterprise has the right to go for it. The question is why aren’t they? Oh yes they are accountable to their shareholders and shareholders tend to frown upon losing propositions as opposed to liberals who can’t wait tho throw more good money after bad.
And so what if no glimmer of hope hasn’t appeared yet – isn’t that what all you proborts are saying we should expect with your precious, but ineffectual, fetal stem cell research?
John@312
I take this as an apology to your comment @ 274.
http://www.newsmax.com/archive.....2601.shtml
Sunday, March 20, 2005 10:19 a.m. EST
Nurse: Terri Can Eat Normally
A certified nursing assistant who cared for Terri Schiavo in 1997 filed a sworn affidavit in the case stating that she was able to feed Schiavo normally on multiple occasions – but that husband Michael Schiavo would allow only a feeding tube.
Heidi Law, a CNA at the Palm Gardens nursing home, testified:
“At least three times during any shift where I took care of Terri, I made sure to give Terri a wet washcloth filled with ice chips, to keep her mouth moistened. I personally saw her swallow the ice water and never saw her gag.
“[Another CNA] and I frequently put orange juice or apple juice in her washcloth to give her something nice to taste, which made her happy. On three or four occasions I personally fed Terri small mouthfuls of Jello, which she was able to swallow and enjoyed immensely.”
Law testified that the only reason she didn’t attempt to feed Ms. Schiavo more frequently was “because I was so afraid of being caught by Michael.”
Editorializing on the case in light of Law’s account, the Pittsburgh Post Gazette said Sunday, “It is one thing to withdraw a feeding tube; another entirely to withhold that day’s meal tray.”
Carla Sauer Iyer was a registered nurse at the same facility. In her own affidavit Iyer testified that Ms. Schiavo was capable of speech, explaining, “[Terri] spoke on a regular basis, saying such things as ‘Mommy’ and ‘help me.'”
When she put a washcloth in Terri’s hands to keep her fingers from curling together, Iyer said, “Michael saw it and made me take it out, saying that was therapy” that he had forbidden.
“Throughout my time at Palm Gardens, Michael Schiavo was focused on Terri’s death,” the RN noted. “Michael would say ‘When is she going to die?’ ‘Has she died yet?’ and ‘When is that bitch gonna die?'”
**********************
John, Don and AF – I am torn, should I rely on you hacks for information to form an opinion around or a couple nurses that actually know Terri and her condition?
anon @ 316
No glimmer of hope, eh? Then leave her alone. Leave Michael Schiavo alone. Don’t second guess the courts. It’s none of your business. Butt out. Tell your politicians to stand down.
The NSF concentrates on basic research and has produced miracles for this country and the world. They take the long view. As Bill Gates Sr. recently said his son wouldn’t be rich without investments made in basic research by the federal government. Your remark is an insult to all the dedicated researchers out there supported by NSF grants. Many wonders have been discovered and lives saved by this work.
Chris @ 317
Not at all.. Look at the pictures. Have you? No cerbral cortex. No higher brain functioning. She is therefore in a state of permanent unconsciousness. Short of miracle or some magic medical treatment appearing out of thin air – she’ll never wake up.
She can’t control swallowing. It’s a longshot to train her to swallow using electrical stimulation but then you would risk her aspirating food and catching pneumonia.
She has a right to refuse medical treatment. She would not want this. Leave her alone. This matter is none of anyone’s business.
This issue is done for me. Have the last word.
hammesfahr is a proven quack looking for a boost to the pulitzer.
Thats like posting a link to jerry falwell’s sits char!
LOL!
“””John, Don and AF – I am torn, should I rely on you hacks for information to form an opinion around or a couple nurses that actually know Terri and her condition?
Comment by Chris— 3/21/05″””
No, you should just butt out, as should eferyone else, and leave it up to the doctors, courts, and family.
gwdummy, and the rest of the political opportunists, have no business using terri schiavo, as a political football.
I realize, that wont stop them. bush is numero uno when it comes to stomping the constitution.
Chris @ 318
Newsmax? Hardly an unbiased source. That cheesy right-wing tabloid site, an old hangout of Michael “Savage” Weiner, will cut and paste anything to shill for the wingers. I wouldn’t expect much more from you Chris.
The Heidi Law affadavit was used by the Schindlers in a contempt of court motion against Michael Schiavo which was then dismissed by Judge Greer. Read about it here.
I can’t find any other info on the other two hospice workers, Carolyn Johnson and Carla Saurer-lyer save on winger websites. Let’s just say I’m skeptical until I receive better information.
I think all the claims of cognition on the part of Terri is just more of people reading what they want into her behavior. At one time people thought they had a method of effectively communicating with autistic patients until it was proven that it was all a mass hallucination.
Don@297. Have you noticed there is no sinners amongst us. The anti-right to die have no condemnation in their heart either. Pure as the driven slush is their unconditional love for all mankind and life itself. So kind, wouldn’t be caught dead with a fly swatter. The next bill that Bushy pushes could be the fly-swatter bill. Flies have a right to life. Just imagine have a strip search to see if your carrying the controlled substance. Better hide the Raid, Bush and his the moral majority wants you.
Anonymous Again,
Enjoy your porn on digital TV John? Or via satellite? Unheard of 15 years ago.
You really get hyped on the sex angles, Anon. Just read your comment at 232. You and Taranto really have a problem with a widower having a sexual relationship.
Look at how you’ve demonized this man thoughout your comments. There’s a sexual component to it.
Methinks you doth protest too much. Is this another one of your morbid fears that you’ve projected onto this case? Are you afraid of this happening to you?
John@325. Ignorance can not be reasoned with and making sense out of nonsense is like playing trivia with blind mice. Terri’s medical records have been clearly documented, she has her own guardian-ad and in a 20 hour long direct observation period by a respected professional who is not a blogger, but a authority on such matters, which is on record, Terri did not respond, track or communicate in spite of intensive begging and pleading with her. Her gestures and movments are ONLY automations. The medical profession understand automotions, apparently those less learned don’t. The differance between a belief and a fact is that a fact can be proven.
“anti-right to die”
Cute turn of the phrase there CHEEtoh
What’s the matterm cookie, is “pro-life” a bit too POSITIVE for you, a little too pretty for you? A little too honest when juxtaposed against your pro-death views in your culture of death clique?
You know CHEEtoh, I’m wondering, can you cite a source for the “right to die”?
20 hour long direct observation by the guardian ad litum.
Yep in 2003.
As you libs are so fond of asking… what have you done for me LATELY?
I wonder if you’ve grown, evolved, changed, improved in the last 16 months CHEEtoh. Imagine how much you could have with the proper therapies.
Chris@320. That was eight years ago Chris, whats more the nurse should have been fired for disobeying orders. If Terri was able to be spoon fed, doctor’s would have seen to it. Matter of Oath and Ethics. It is beyond reason to think a nurse knows best. A nurse should never defy doctor’s orders, Parkinson patients die from spoon feeding. It is very dangerous, swallow wrong and they choke to death or come down with fluid on their lungs and die froma case of pneumonia. Sounds to me like a case of neglect on the nurses part. I am ever amazed at layman who have no respect for specialists. First time they get a acid reflex attack thinking it is a heart attack where do they run to? The doctor on emergency call.
John, John, John.
You culture of death groupies want to force feed us that this is a decision made by poor Terri’s loving husband.
But oh golly, hubby hasn’t behaved as a loving husband for well over 10 years because in a rational world, in a divorce court world, in my world loving husbands do not take common law wives, loving husbands do not spawn multiple children with said common law wife, loving husbands do not announce to the world that said common law wife is a fiance when wifey number 1 is still very much wifey number 1.
When it became his desire to share his life with someone else, and that is indeed a fully understandable deisre, the honorable thing to do would be to divorce wifey number 1 according to the way Don outlined somewhere ^up^ there, turn over her guardianship to her family and walked awsy, marry the common law and legitimize their children.
But he didn’t.
And he won’t
He PREFERS to kill her by judicially blessed starvation.
And YOU still have not answered WHY you are so anxious for this pooor innocent woman to die and WHY you prefer not to err on the side of life.
And the point of post #232, which you should have easily recognized had you actually bothered to read it John, is the hypocrisy some people have to choke on to believe Michael is poor Terri’s loving husband:
It would require a heroic degree of self-sacrifice for a man to forgo love and sex in order to remain faithful to an incapacitated wife, and it would be unreasonable to hold an ordinary man to a heroic standard.
But it is equally unreasonable to let Mr. Schiavo have it both ways. If he wishes to assert his marital authority to do his wife in, the least society can expect in return is that he refrain from making a mockery of his marital obligations. The grimmest irony in this tragic case is that those who want Terri Schiavo dead are resting their argument on the fiction that her marriage is still alive.
John@326. :-)
anon @ 330
I’m just guessing but to marry his common law wife he would have to divorce Terri and thus give up his guardianship. I’ve read that Michael and the Schindlers went their separate ways after the malpractice suit and have been at each others throats since. You nutcase righties have been so anxious for him to divorce Terri. Some of you have even tried to bribe him. It’s not hard to see why. You want to control Terri’s un-sentient shell of a body for your own degenerate political agenda.
You’ve got such ideological blinders on that you couldn’t see that I answered your question at 297. As for choices I choose to take a strong stand AGAINST “living death” as promulgated by sterile, degenerate ideologues.
Are you nuts?
I have no desire to control Terri, her body or any other part of her.
I simply believe in erring on the side of life, on the side of hope, on the side of discovery and potential.
I believe if what the man wants to accomplish is his freedom then he should do it the simplest way that would be best for EVERYONE involved – willfully and purposefully terminating her life by starving her is not that way.
Are you done throwing things to see what sticks yet?
I’m still waiting for an answer…
Why are you so anxious to see that poor woman put to death?
Yea yea, YOU’RE against “living death” – I’m sure that gives oodles of comfort to your Grandpapa, your Mama, your wife, your kids, your dog and your great Aunt Matilda.
But, why are you so anxious to see THAT poor woman put to death?
JOHN@331.Touche, good fencing. Man of my own heart.
Pay attention CHEEtoh, I wrote 331.
http://web.tampabay.rr.com/ccb.....ri_Swab.rm
A short video of what I guess the bastards think is brain dead. She clearly has control and is conscious of what is happening around her and to her. There are more videos that show her interacting with people. Is it “Normal” interaction like you and I would do? No, but is it conscious interaction, damn straight it is.
I heard today that after her stroke she was able to walk, assisted with a walker, and talk – not very well but she could be understood. Then her loving husband refused treatment and therapy and she has deteriorated due to lack of proper treatment. Also, he never mentioned her desire not to “live like this” during the court proceedings going after settlement money. It wasn’t until after they were awarded the money that he started the whole “she would want to die – she told me so” crap. Sounds to me like he thought of a great way to keep all that money and not waste it on treatment and care. Get the money then say let her die. It will only cost $ 21.53 in medical bills and I can keep the rest. Unfortunately for him, her family would not sit back and watch, fought him and now the money is gone. Mostly to his attorneys.
I will be verifying the timeline and these events to make sure they are accurate. The settlement information and payout information I have already seen. Assuming, for now, these events are accurate, does that change any of your minds?
Chee never gets any of the @### right.
Chee is also lucky that Don agrees with everything he writes (I think they share one brain – a very small one at that) or Don would rip him a new ass for all the spelling errors.
John@324
You can’t refute the truth of the statements; all you can do is say Newmax sucks.
You’re also an asshole. The link you provided if you would actually pay attention has an “Update”. The affidavit referenced by Newsmax and originally referenced by your source is accurate. But it IS NOT the affidavit that the Judge ruled on the case. Go back to the link and read again dipshit. That affidavit that was part of that case was a boring uninspiring nothing, which served no purpose, I don’t blame the judge for not caring about the information in that affidavit. GET your Shit straight John, your crap research doesn’t cut it here. I am tired of debunking all the crap you spew here. It is a full time job to correct all your garbage. Why do you even post here you’re an idiot. You have no credibility and your posts should be considered lies and spin.
How do you know if John is Lying? Easy, if his lips are moving or he is typing.
You’re a broken record anon. Have you got anything against people who sign living wills? Is it your fantasy to fill wards and wards with these kind of people? Do you want to end up like this? I sure don’t.
Look at the pictures of her brain fool. You don’t have to be a doctor to have common sense. Everything that makes us human is gone when the cerebral cortex is gone.
Are you so naive to believe that some miracle is going to happen within another 15 years that will regenerate her brain tissue? What if that happens and she is woken? One she probably won’t remember anything about her past life. Like many brain trauma patients she’ll be a baby again but this time around she’ll be reborn in a broken, ruined body. All of this so you can feel good about yourself?
I’m not going to second guess the courts on this. Unlike you I’m not going to pretend I know better. Leave her be anon. Stand down. It’s none of our business.
But Terri DIDN’T sign a living will.
we only have the word of the guy that wants to end her life… and that only AFTER he settled the malpractice suit.
One more time…
Why are you so anxious to see THAT poor woman put to death?
Chris you are so divorced from reality I’ll let you go. That video didn’t convince me one iota that she is aware of what’s going on. Your reading what YOU want into her expressions. Your fantasy is that you think you know everything. You think because your favorite winger sites say it is so and you agree then it’s so. It doesn’t matter what any judge who’s reviewed the evidence and testimony thinks. Chris knows best.
You haven’t debunked anything anyone has put up here Chris. If you believe that then you should have yourself committed. You’re the one living in LA LA land. Keep reading Newsmax and your other favorite winger sites. I hope you’re comfortable in your bubble.
Ok brain expert John, I’ll bite…
Where can I see a picture of Terri’s brain…
How are you sure it IS Terri’s brain…
Under what circumstance COULD Terri’s brain be put up for exhibit on the internet (you know those ol’ nasty inconvenient privacy rights)…
Where can I see your resume that you are capable and have the expertise to read that picture of Terri’s brain?
Once again,
Why are you so anxious to see THAT poor woman put to death?
anon @ 344
What part of broken record don’t you understand? I gave my reasons in 297.
I’m not for anyone being “put to death”. I’m defering to the many judges that reviewed this case and have decided the way they have. Of course I understand that’s not to your liking and therefore you support the Republican “Judge shopping” expedition that’s going on right now.
Go to 297, rinse, repeat
You have indeed been arguing THIS woman should be put to death.
How nice, you’ve looked at the pictures of her brain.
Now play nice and share John – where are these supposed definitive pictures?
Where is your resume, proof of your medical degree, your curriculum vitae that gives YOU the definitive right to pass judgement on whether or not this womans brain says she’s not worthy enough to live?
Anon @ 346
Here. Scroll down a bit to see the picture. And it’s sourced as well.
John I absolutely did debunk you and have in the past as well. You said the affidavit was used in the case against Micheal and the judge threw it out. You were and are wrong and you refuse to aknowledge it. Your own source to defend your postion is where I got the information that makes you look like the fool you are.
Of course you will “Let Me Go” because you have no choice. I am right and you are wrong and letting me go is your only option. Everyone here, even Don, would have to agree you stepped in your shit again.
You are the biggest joke I have ever come across. You are completely out of your league. What’s funny is you truly think you know what the f*ck you’re talking about, what an asswipe.
anon @ 348
I’m done talking to you. Believe in the superiority of your judgement over that of Florida Superior and Supreme Court. Your idols Tom DeLay and George W. Bush certainly do.
Chris @ 350
Ohhh. My feeling are so hurt! You’ve debunked me? Ok believe whatever you want.
You’re a shambling drunk of a debater. You’ve been shredded time after time on the election issue and don’t have a shred of credibility on this issue.
You’re a parrot for the right wing sites you revere. When you’re caught with your pants down, all you can do is name call.
A blog.
OK, we’ll work with that.
Did you happen to read this part (or did you only read as far as suited your purposes?):
“CT scans are useful for trauma cases. Terri didn’t have a brain trauma. She had an oxygen deprivation. The neurologists cited by Johannsen specifically mentioned that in oxygen deprivation cases, you need an MRI and/or PET to get a good understanding of what the level of damage to the brain is; a CT scan doesn’t get it done.”
or this:
“Robert Says:
March 18th, 2005 at 3:34 pm
You’re right. I should say “a CT scan is not sufficient”.
I imagine that there are those who will not accept any test as sufficient; however, there are a number of people concerned for Terri who do not hold the hard-line RC position that you never end a life. For those folks, an MRI would provide a much better indicator. (And an openness to those tests would do a lot to dispel the idea that Michael Schiavo is hell-bent on ending Terri’s life.) In other words, it would bolster the strength of your position regardless of the outcome.
Just got a message from Fr. Johansen re: the MRI:
“My sources for the information regarding the lack of MRI for Terri are: the Schindlers, their attorneys: Pat Anderson (till last fall) and David Gibbs; statements by George Felos, testimony from Dr. Cranford (the chief medical witness for Michael Schiavo) himself, who argued in court that an MRI would not be necessary, and e-mails from Cranford himself. Needless to say, I can’t share the Cranford e-mails because I don’t have his permission to do so. The mere fact that Terri has thalamic implants contraindicates an MRI until they are removed (which Michael has refused to do in spite of a doctors instrctions to do so.)
The Schindlers did ask for an MRI at least three times, and each time Michael refused. Judge Greer refused to order an MRI for Terri, though the doctors for the Schindlers asked for one at the 2002 evidentiary hearing.
As far as news reports about this issue go, there aren’t any. The MSM has proven singularly uninterested in facts about her case that don’t fit into the “right to die” mold. As far as I know, my NRO piece was the first published article to make this fact known.”
Or this:
Philip Brooks Says:
March 19th, 2005 at 10:04 pm
What little I know of the relevant issues I’ve learned from philosophers instead of neurologists, but I was under the impression that CT scans were essentially 3D X-rays, showing the physical structure of the brain, while MRIs were 3D images of brain activity. If this is the case, to find out whether part of the brain had turned into spinal fluid (which is not as dense as brain matter, and therefore distinguishable using X-rays), a CT scan would be more useful than an MRI. Furthermore, the picture shown is only a partial snapshot of the 3D model of Schiavo’s brain the CT scan produced, which would be more detailed than just colored blobs.
Or this:
Philip Brooks Says:
March 20th, 2005 at 12:30 am
And yet more googling reveals that CT and CAT scans are two different words for the same thing. It seems to be possible to create a 3D model of the physical structure of a brain or other organ from a CT scan, but I can’t find any indication that this is normally done, let alone whether it was done in Schiavo’s particular case…
Or this:
Shane Thacker Says:
March 21st, 2005 at 12:22 pm
I came by this post because I noticed it was being linked from several other blogs I regularly read. Heck, the images used above are being used on some other blogs, if I saw them correctly. I think, in the end, they’re more noise than signal in this case.
There are a lot of reasons to argue for and against removing Terri Schiavo’s feeding tube, and a lot of perplexing questions that the situation brings up. However, these CT scans aren’t really useful in the way a lot of the commenters are using them.
First, check Anniebird’s previous comment. It would be interesting to know whether the CT scans were taken from the same level. If we do not know, then we are going to have trouble comparing.
Second, let’s acknowledge that the brain is spongy and can get squeezed into smaller areas. Check hydrocephalus for an example. Here is an example of a brain with excess fluid, compared to the same brain after a shunt is installed to drain it off. The brain can be harmed when there is excess fuid, but it isn’t necessarily the case that there is less brain tissue. Can we tell how much brain tissue there is from the above scan? Not really. Her doctors might be able to.
Third, the cerebral cortex is not a synonym for the entire brain. It’s the outer shell part…the one we worry about. A lot of the stuff in the middle is connective tissue. Can we tell about damage to the cerebral cortex from the above scans? We still can’t. Perhaps her doctors can tell something.
Declaring someone to be in a persistent vegetative state is a complex diagnosis that requires several tests. Doctors and medical specialists who have actually examined the records and Terri Schiavo are in the best position to do so. Might they disagree? As someone with personal experience with severe injury, yes, doctors will disagree even in the most severe cases.
In our case, making broad statements based on a couple of images may make us feel better, but it doesn’t exactly add to the debate. It’s good we can debate the broader issues, rather than the bits of physical evidence we have.
Don, John etc. Let the lunatic fringe of the GOP keep on ranting and raving. It will only hurt their position in the long run. The polls are 70% against GW and his cronies meddling in state afairs, the polls are 60% in agreement with leaving the tubes out. Let them hang themselves, they are good at it, their relatives had a lot of practice in the South through the years.
john @ 343
“”Is it your fantasy to fill wards and wards with these kind of people?””
well choke on this
“Euthanasia” Killings in Nazi Germany
(http://www.holocaust-trc.org)
Forced sterilization in Germany was the forerunner of the systematic killing of the mentally ill and the handicapped. In October 1939, Hitler himself initiated
a decree which empowered physicians to grant a “mercy death” to “patients considered incurable according to the best available human judgment of their state of health.” The intent of the so-called “euthanasia” program, however, was not to relieve the suffering…
And you John believe in fiat by judiciary, in this case a judiciary blessed death by starvation instead of morality, instead of life, instead of hope, instead of potential.
I can’t wait till the time your precious judicial fiat RE-affirms unborn life is still human life… as in Scott Peterson charged found guilty on 2 counts of murder (wife and unborn son) as in the recent case in the midswest where the baby was removed from the mothers womb, or as in the charming young man that was arrested for murder by attempting abortion by baseball bat.
How will you defend your sacred final say so of judicial fiat when the ruling is NOT one of your liking? Let your sputtering begin babe. I can’t wait!
PS John, I did respond to your brain pictures – for some reason it’s being held… patience Grasshopper.
John @ 352
look at this, speaking of getting caught with your pants down.
The radical Democratic left is an army of soulless ghouls. Being of the living dead, they live in a world of death and try to impose it on we the living. Witness who led the charge: a radical homosexual, Barney Frank (who raped a page boy). A radical abortion Mafiosa, Barbara Boxer (promoter of selling fetus body parts). What is difficult for we the living to comprehend is the reason they can engage in such anti-life abominations is because they have no souls.
They have said that the tears of Terri Schiavo are mechanical. They have said that her smile is reflexive. They can rip an emerging child from the womb, murder it, and call this a compassionate act.
Like Mengele – the doctor of death from the Nazi concentration camps – the radical, soulless Democrats keep referring to “the doctors,” as if a medical degree guaranteed humanity.
John@352
Back it up. You can’t. Show me where I have been “Shredded” on the election issue. Refer to the election issue at all is you conceding you got taken to the woodshed on this iisue. Your all talk and I have grown tired of you. Debating with you is not even fun, because you suck at it. You rarely use facts to support your arguments and when you do their wrong. I have proven this. Stop making a fool of yourself…I am feeling sorry for you.
jpgee, surely by now you realise that GW does not give a fat rats butt what the polls say. You’re confusing him with Slick Waggin Willie. See? that’s what being a grown up is all about: sticking to your convictions even when the popular clique is going anohter way.
John@352 says; all you can do is name call.
No John, if you read my posts name calling is only part of what I do. Debunking you with real facts is the other thing I do. I can back up the name calling by the substance of my posts. You tend to name call as a defense since you have no substance. Why on a liberal Blog like this are none of your friends defending you on this John? Becasue even they know you are wrong.
The radical Democratic left is an army of soulless ghouls. Being of the living dead, they live in a world of death and try to impose it on we the living. Witness who led the charge: a radical homosexual, Barney Frank. A radical abortion Mafiosa, Barbara Boxer. What is difficult for we the living to comprehend is the reason they can engage in such anti-life abominations is because they have no souls. They have said that the tears of Terri Schiavo are mechanical. They have said that her smile is reflexive. They can rip an emerging child from the womb, murder it, and call this a compassionate act. Like Mengele – the doctor of death from the Nazi concentration camps – the radical, soulless Democrats keep referring to “the doctors,” as if a medical degree guaranteed humanity. Therefore, choose life. God Bless George W Bush
http://www.homestead.com
John you are not worth the time and effort. You have lost your entertainment value as well. I prefer to debate with smart people, or at least those that can string two thoughts together. You don’t qualify.
bless gw and all the massacred children of iraq.
gw is smart, he knew those children could possibly, potentially, theoretically, more likely than not, have a 10% chance of becoming involved with 10% of the people that have heard about terrorism.
im sure glad we got gw at the helm, he has after all, almost 35% support.
whatta guy.
Interesting.
All the feds (Congress and GW) did was grant Terri the same right your death row inmates get, the same right your detained enemy combatants get, the same right you want your GITMO prisoners to get… the right to a judicial review.
Suddenly scared of a judicial fiat are we?
DD, stop reading your talking points and grab a fact or two:
http://www.rasmussenreports.co.....proval.htm
Tell you what Chris? When you make an ass of yourself again, I’ll call you out on it. I can’t wait!
In meantime check your faulty memory of your regurgitations of Stefan Sharkansky’s trash and how YOU have been taken to the woodshed by Goldy, TJ, Don and others. You haven’t come out on the top of ANYTHING here and you have the nerve to stroke yourself about smart you are!
You’re a sham Chris and the only way you can respond is to turn up the insults and YOU KNOW IT.
@ 357: PS John, I did respond to your brain pictures – for some reason it’s being held… patience Grasshopper. -Comment by anonymous— 3/21/05 @ 9:43 pm
It finally popped as #353
if you actually look up the raw numbers, you’ll see its what i’ve been telling you for 3 months char:
30% behing bush, 20% blowing in the wind, 50% against him.
The only way he surges up occasionally, is by the idiots that dont know who they voted for, that change their opinions like i change shorts.
Thank you for that expert political commentary and poll interpretation there DD:
“The only way he surges up occasionally, is by the idiots that dont know who they voted for, that change their opinions like i change shorts.”
Good grief.
Truth hurts at first, look around, it’ll start making sense to you.
John, you never address any of the facts. You have never responded to the many questions I have asked you. You ignore them because the answers will expose you, you don’t need the help, as an idiot.
Can you with a straight face say that I am wrong about the error you made regarding the affidavit? No you cannot.
Regarding the election; everything I believe to be true about the election is also known and admitted to be true by your side and the election officials. The only difference is I think all of it could have had an impact on the election and your side thinks it’s just all normal stuff that we should not be worried about. We don’t disagree on the facts just what the facts mean. Do you disagree that felons voted? Do you disagree that there are many more votes then voters in the reconciliation, many times the margin of victory. Do you disagree that King County found votes on numerous occasions after the initial count? Do you disagree that dead people have been shown to have voted? Do you disagree that double votes have been found? Do you disagree that hundreds of unverified provisional ballots were placed in the machines? The list goes on but you get the point. These are the facts, they are not disputable. King County does not dispute them, they try to divert attention from them but they don’t deny them. We can disagree about if these facts should or did make a difference in the result of the election but the facts are not in dispute.
I am sure you will whine some more about me calling you names and continue to say that’s all I do. John, newsflash people can read, they can see the truth for themselves. By the way I didn’t really consider myself all that smart until I started debating you and if you are smart, I figure I must be a genius.
More profundity from the dude.
Yea!
Truth only hurts when you hold it as relative to expedience or the moment kiddo, instead of the absolute that it is.
Way to pick up the liberal jargon and memorize the buzz points though…duuuude.
Chris:
At the outset, I’m just an opionated guy just like any other here. I claim no special abilities. You on the other hand consistently call people names like hacks and pronounce lame judgements like Terry Schiavo’s vote counting in King County.
You consider a person like Don a hack. Don is a retired attorney and Judge. Did you know that? You can’t hold a candle to him.
You’ve called TJ a hack. Show me one place where you’ve drilled down to the depth on the election issue like TJ has. You can’t but you sure are free with the “hack” label.
Here’s some evidence of what passes for “arguments” from you:
#
You libs are hilarious. You are blind to reality. I would never try to convince you to change your position / opinions, you are too valuable to us as you are. I can’t wait to come back to this website after the trial and the Rossi victory to see how you schmucks spin it into a victory for the Dems. You refuse to see the true strength of the R’s case and that will be your demise. PLEASE, keep the blinders on and stay in your cozy world of denial, it is quite entertaining.
Comment by Chris— 2/22/05 @ 11:25 pm
#
Goldy and Joe you really don’t believe the turds you crap here do you? Joe knows all, it’s everyone else that’s stupid. Goldy gets word of the “Big Binder” and with blind faith tells us all to go see it, that it answers all the questions, and we are stupid for believing there were any problems in the first place. You guys are always good for a laugh and the Big Binder fiasco is one of the best. You criticze shark for not doing his homework before he posts a story, even though his postions are always supported by documentation and facts, then you pull this Binder sotry out of your ass (or your KC friends ass) and you don’t have a clue what you are tlaking about. Then Joe trys to talk like he knows all about it, what a joke.
Comment by Chris— 3/9/05 @ 3:02 pm
Joe, You are at it again. I thought you would have learned from the last time. Stop stating “Opinion” as fact:…it will bite you in the ass, again. (example: Hand counts are more accurate then Machine counts…) Please save me from having to continually embarrass you and prove you wrong in front of all your friends. While entertaining, it is getting tiring.
Cynical… Good job as usual – The Leftys grap whatever little sliver they can and scream really loud and jump up and down to divert attention from the real story. Keep on on ‘em
Comment by Chris — 3/5/05 @ 8:02 pm
These insult-laden statements are what passes as arguments from you. And you wonder why people around here get their hackles up about you?
By the way Chris, the binder exists and is being pored over for more red herrings by the Snark as we speak – if you haven’t heard yet.
Anonymous @ 368
My last statement on the CT Scan – I’ll quote Judge Greer from his Feb 11, 2000 ruling which you can read here:
Turning to the medical issues of the case, the court finds beyond all doubt that Theresa Marie Schiavo is in a persistent vegetative state or the same is defined by Florida Statues Section 765.101 (12) per the specific testimony of Dr. James Barnhill and corroborated by Dr. Vincent Gambone. The medical evidence before this court conclusively establishes that she has no hope of ever regaining consciousness and therefore capacity, and that without the feeding tube she will die in seven to fourteen days. The unrebutted medical testimony before this court is that such death would be painless. The film offered into evidence by Respondents does nothing to change these medical opinions which are supported by the CAT scans in evidence. Mrs. Schindler has testified as her perceptions may become reality to the person having them. But the overwhelming credible evidence is that Terri Schiavo has been totally unresponsive since lapsing into the coma almost ten years ago, that her movements are reflexive and predicated on brain stem activity alone, that she suffers from severe structural brain damage and to a large extent her brain has been replaced by spinal fluid, that with the exception of one witness whom the court finds to be so biased as to lack credibility, her movements are occasional and totally consistent with the testimony of the expert medical witnesses. The testimony of Dr. Barnhill establishes that Terri Schiavo’s reflex actions such as breathing and movement shows merely that her brain stem and spinal cord are intact.
Two doctors and a judge examining the evidence and you still think you know better! This case has been appealed up and down and through Jeb Bush’s “Terri’s Law”. It has been refused to be heard by the SCOTUS. But of course, all you guys know better. Now Jeb’s stunt has been repeated at the federal level. It’s a freaking shame.
John @ 312
“A living dead person is a perfect vessel to advance a political agenda through.”
Yes, because she can’t speak for herself, so it’s easy for ideologues and demagogues to pretend to speak for her. I suspect if she could say anything, she would say: “Fuck off!”
The natural INSTINCT for any/every living being is to live, to cling to life. Throw a dog or a baby or even F/O Don into the ocean and their natural instincts will PROPEL them to fight for air to LIVE. That is the simple reason it is so damned hard to commit suicide by drowning – the natural instinct to find air is more powerful than the ability to purposefully stay without it.
And Judge Don, Terri had NO LIVING WILL, Terri had NOTHING IN WRITING, all Terri has is a heavily invested in seeing her DEAD.
Why are you?
*loving husband heavily invested in seeing her dead.
And somehow I doubt her Mother, her Father, her brother, the rest of her family and her friends have been been fighting for her life for 10+ years because they are “ideologues and demagogues” interested in ‘advancing a political agenda’.
Why are you so anxious to see her dead?
Come on little libs… complete sentences now…
I, Judge F/O Don, am anxious to see Terri dead because….
I, John, am anxious to see Terri dead because….
I, CHEEtoh, am anxious to see Terri dead because….
I, DigginDude, am anxious to see Terri dead because….
I, jpgee, am anxious to see Terri dead because….
John,
thank you for proving my point. You posted opinion comments by me that you may not agree with. You did not find a post where I was “Shredded” as you proclaimed. Did you post all my comments? No, just the opinion parts you did not agree with. Where did I state a fact that was later debunked by any on here. Like you have and like Joe did regarding manual count accuracy vs. hand count. He contented it to be accepted fact, and common sense that hand counts are more accurate. I provided evidence to the contrary, that showed varying opinions from varyious experts on the topic. Just because Joe wanted his experts to be right he stated it as fact. The same applies to you. You stated something as fact. The affidavit issue and I debunked you at that as well.
This is the reality of the situation. Go through and hand pick all the “sound Bites” you want John, it will never change the facts.
If you would have read my posts you would clearly know that I know the binder has been released and that it does not hold all the answers, it just creates more questions.
You have yet to respond to any of the questions and clarifications I have posed to you. That would resolve all of this. You run and whine about me name calling.
I’m not interested in seeing her dead, Im not interested in the choices michael and terri have made or where it will lead.
I’m resisting the republicans and religious zealots, that think they should have a say in what happens inside the private business of a family.
I dont care if you think they are still a family, because you have no right to judge whether they are or not.
I dont care whether you think the parents have rights over the spouse, its none of your business.
This circus, has been brought by religious extremists, and political opportunists.
GWdummy, and his little crew of puppets, have absolutely no business second guessing the supreme court, when they haven’t been able to do any other thing, to this point, correctly, let alone, that their intervention is “ILLEGAL”!!!!!!!
I’m looking at gallop polls right now on the tv, showing republicans favor letting her die 2 to 1.
Not that their opinion should sway the decision, just pointing out, there are still some real republican party members in the u.s.
Not all are neo-fascists like the ones we see trying to usurp the constitution.
Bottom line, the supreme court has ruled who has the control over a patient:
1. the wishes of the patient
2. the spouse
3. the children of the patient
4. the parents of the patient
Any of you window peepin idiots see congress’s name or gwdummy listed here?
How about church? Are they listed?
FUCK NO!!
Thats because its their job, to butt the fuck out.
I, DigginDude, am anxious to see Terri dead because….
Nice long rant DD… but you conveniently haven’t answered the question… SURPRISE! SURPRISE!
And the REASON you won’t/haven’t answered the question is because then you’d have to admit you are indeed a culture of death groupie. The reason you have such angst about the publicity and the public interest in this case is because it slaps right smack in the face the AGENDA of the culture of death. If society says Terri’s life is valuable your groupies will have a tougher time hanging on to the agenda that life has NO value by YOUR set of terms.
‘Culture of Life’
The Schiavo case shows that it’s about more than abortion.
BY BRENDAN MINITER
Tuesday, March 22, 2005
“ A large segment of the population feels that there has been a coarsening of our culture, that as a society we no longer view life as precious and valuable in all its forms. Abortion on demand is a sign of that coarsening, but so is euthanasia and the push to use stem cells from frozen embryos and tissue from aborted babies. Like Terri Schiavo’s family, many Americans have decided they aren’t going to remain silent as lives are discarded as “worthless.” “
Schiavo case matters in symbol and substance
Cal Thomas
March 21, 2005
“Why does Terri Schiavo matter? She matters, not only because she has an endowed, inalienable right to life, but also because she is a symbol – like Rosa Parks was a symbol when she refused to sit in the back of that Montgomery, Ala., bus; like Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, who symbolized freedom by defying Soviet authorities and chronicling the inhabitants and victims of the gulags; like astronauts who brave death to explore space. Symbols have meaning. Terri Schiavo is a symbol in the battle over life-and-death issues that inconveniently, but necessarily, confront us“ …
…“ The Schiavo case should not be viewed in isolation. It is part of a flow that began in modern times with abortion-on-demand and will continue, if not stopped, with euthanasia. Once a single category of life is devalued, all other categories quickly become vulnerable.“
“ Girls who became pregnant by a drunken father and sought abortions were the symbolic beginning of a process that has resulted in abortion for any reason at any stage. Now we are targeting the infirm, and soon the elderly will be in our sights because of the pressure on Social Security and Medicare. The “reasoning” will be: rather than raise taxes, reduce benefits or raise the retirement age, let’s eliminate those who are the biggest “drain” on retirement resources – that is, the elderly and infirm.“
Terri’s Case — It’s All About Money, Power, and Our Constitution
Donald R. May
March 21, 2005
“Terri’s Case is not just about whether she is allowed to live or die. It is about establishing legal and social precedents regarding the rights and protection of the disabled. The outcome will establish case law as to whether the disabled are entitled to equal protection under The Constitution of the United States of America.“…
…“The money question is whether the disabled and unwanted can be eliminated to increase the financial status of their heirs or to save money for families, governments, and other payers of health care. The outcome of Terri’s Case will determine whether it will be increasingly acceptable and permissible to eliminate disabled and otherwise nonproductive persons for the convenience and financial benefit of others. Just think how much could be saved on Social Security and Medicare.“…
…“If Terri were killed, the door would be opened wider for death on demand for the unwanted disabled, pushing humanity more rapidly down the oiled slope of moral relativism with ever less regard for human life. Roe v. Wade opened the door to kill the undesirable unborn on demand without court intervention. Abortion criteria quickly expanded until there were no criteria.“…
…“If they succeed in killing Terri, judges and politicians will increasingly determine who will be born, live, and die. We will enter a progressively more frightening and dreary society moving ever closer to the America portrayed in Joseph Bayly’s, Winterflight, where the elderly, and even the young who have treatable chronic diseases, are eliminated.“
DD @ 381
Right on, man! Well done!
Anon @ 382
skip, skip, skip…
GWdummy, and his little crew of puppets, have absolutely no business second guessing the supreme court, when they haven’t been able to do any other thing, to this point, correctly, let alone, that their intervention is “ILLEGAL”… Not all are neo-fascists like the ones we see trying to usurp the constitution.
!!!!!!!-Comment by Diggindude— 3/22/05 @ 9:12 am
I have a real news flash for you duuuude: It is the JOB of congress to MAKE laws not illegal for them to do so.
Regarding second guessing the supreme court: They can’t be second guessed because they HAVEN’T RULED ON IT.
Regarding usurping the constitution: The constitution offers CONVICTED death row inmates the protection of federal court review and now it offers the same review to Terri. What exactly is your problem with that?
Lastly, let’s imagine your reaction when an activist court, who in recent history has enacted the liberal agenda in the form of homosexual marriage, abortion on demand, decides one day to say ‘we decide today all homosexual unions are illegal’. I’ll expect you equally and vociferously to defend THAT activist court.
dipshit @ 83
i answered it in the first sentence.
ignoring my answer makes you look like an extremist wacko.
You’re not an extremist wacko are you?
Chris @ 380
You take Stefan Sharkansky’s stuff as fact? He’s been debunked many many times. This joker can care less about the facts and the truth of the situation, his goal is to pursue a political agenda and you’re only too happy to go along for the ride!
You take Newsmax stuff as fact? The old website of Michael “Savage” Weiner? Don’t make me laugh!
I’m sure you take Limbaugh and Hannity as “fact” as well – they’re debunked here every day along with a lot of other of your wingnut heroes.
No, you made a comment but you ignored the question. How typically liberal of you!
Quoting ME:
“And the REASON you won’t/haven’t answered the question is because then you’d have to admit you are indeed a culture of death groupie. The reason you have such angst about the publicity and the public interest in this case is because it slaps right smack in the face the AGENDA of the culture of death. If society says Terri’s life is valuable your groupies will have a tougher time hanging on to the agenda that life has NO value by YOUR set of terms.”
You can’t/won’t answer because you don’t dare expose to the light of day who you really are, what you really stand for… kind of like a COWARD with no courage in his convictions.
And, you can’t disagree because then you’d have to admit Terri’s life can and should have value.
Ahhh, pity the poor relativists caught in their own web of self deception.
And duuuuude, your precious polls… have been soundly refuted as biased because the premise of the question was a factual lie.
Nice try.
Get out of the talking points duuuude and grab a fact or two.
Defending the court?
You need to step back from the brink buddy.
The court has a job to do.
I dont agree with every decision they make.
Im not going to lose sleep over it, because for one thing, I hope those supreme court judges have more knowledge, and are much more wise than me!!
Secondly, its not in my nature to stick my nose into everyone elses business, as it is for extremist wackos such as yourself.
Do i care whether or not gays get married?
Sure, i dont like it, but is my not liking it going to make them go away? Not hardly.
All they want is benefits and recognition for their choice of life partner, fk it. Its not my business how other people run their lives, until they make their choices affect me.
This is where people like you come in.
People like you, want to force your views and beliefs on everyone else. People like you, are not content in your own misery, you want to project it on every one else.
Its like a certain someone here that wants to call this m. schiavo a killer, and abuser, because of personal experience in their own life.
Nothing to do with reality, just projecting their views on the world around them.
If people like you would direct your energy towards something meaningful, instead of interfering in shit that doesnt concern you, you could probably benefit those around you.
Instead, you throw stones at others houses, while ignoring all the glass in your own.
“How did we come to a point that we are arguing about denying food to a human being, about a culture of death rather than a culture of life? A review of developments in Nazi Germany might be enlightening. The Nazi atrocities were based on a philosophy that made the “quality of life” more important than the “sanctity of life.” V
“The Nazis slipped into the holocaust by seven recognizable steps.“
“1) There was an acceptance of mercy killing to put people out of their misery. “
“2) When Germany suffered a severe economic crunch efforts were made to remove “useless” expenses from the budget. That led to the killing of the chronically ill with no hope of recovery (Terri Schiavo?).“
“ 3) Next came killing of the elderly who were without relatives and resources but were a burden to the state.“ “4) This was followed by the elimination of bums, beggars, gypsies and hopelessly poor people.“
“ 5) Then came the economy of eliminating people who were drawing welfare.“
“ 6) It was then the turn of the ideologically unwanted, political enemies of the state, “religious extremists,” “disloyal” individuals who were holding the government back from providing every citizen a better quality of life.“
“ 7) Finally there came those who in the ideology of the Nazis were evolutionally unfit such as Jew and those who were not pure Aryans. Once the first step, acceptance of euthanasia was taken, all other steps followed logically.“
Gosh, and just think, Judge F/O Don, John, CHEEtoh and the Duuuuude have already expressed themselves well enough, and in writing to prove they are already up through #6.
Seig Heil Judge F/O Don, John, CHEEtoh and duuuude!
John – Well go ahead and debunk me. You worthless piece of shit. Saying all you say does not change any of the facts.
Debunk the affidavit that we are discussing. Show me where the affidavit is wrong, fake, does not exist, is a lie (supported with Fact – please) Call Newsmax what you want I don’t care. Say Shark is a lying bastard, I don’t care. Say Rush and Hannity are sleeping together, I don’t care. PROVE SOMETHING for once. Show the evidence I am wrong.
I have expressed my position regarding Terri and the affidavit. Prove what is stated in it is a lie. I have stated the information I have seen regarding settlement money payouts. And the information, which I am still looking into, regarding Terri’s ability to walk and talk initially after her stroke. And that lack of therapy (her husband refused)got her where she is today. I asked you assuming the information was true, (conceding I don’t have confirmation yet) would that change your mind about Terri. You avoided me as usual.
I listed numerous facts regarding the election, asked you if you disagreed with those facts (simple yes or no answers). But you turn a blind eye because answering them would prove my point. The only diagreement truly is whether or not the result of the election should be affected by these errors and problems. The errors and problems themselves are not in dispute (by normal thinking people) only their impact.
Debunk any of what I have said. It will take more then saying you don’t like Newsmax. Newsmax only reported about the affidavit, they did not create it. Your own source website you used to try to debunk me originally proves the affidavit exists and that you were wrong about it’s role in the court case against the rat husband.
your nazi party rant, sounds exactly like the current wacko repubs to me.
Thanks for posting that garbage.
The fact you should butt out of private affairs remains, as does your desire not to.
Nobody but repub. wackos, want to cut all funding to poor, sick, and elderly.
If anyone is hurting the quality of life, its definitely the wacko repubs.
whether she lives or dies, is not, nor has ever been the issue from our side.
The issue, which being the wacko that you are, cant comprehend, is, its not your decision.
Its not your business.
If he told me terri said she wanted to live as a vegetable, no matter what, i would still be on his side trying to help him keep her alive at any cost, because………………..drum role please…………..ITS HIS AND HER DECISION!!!!!!!
NOT YOURS!!!!!!
fuckin idiots.
I realize you cant comprehend what it means to butt the fuck out, but it wont stop me from telling you.
so, BUTT THE FUCK OUT!
Chris,
Ok let’s talk about the affidavits.
Show me somewhere where the statements of these women contained in that newsmax garbage have any bearing on any of the courts’ decisions. I’ll doubt you’ll find anything. Wonder why? Because what’s stated in them can’t be proven – no corroboration – they have the weight of baseless rumour but you sure believe in them.
Those statements are just more of same – people reading what they want into Terri Schiavo’s face and more demonizing of the husband.
Newsmax dug up this crap and printed it because it reinforces the delusions of their readers – people like you. You then like a fool regurgitate it to back up your “arguments”. What a total joke.
Heidi Law’s statement is found in one halfway reasonable source. The rest only pop up on extremist winger websites – the kind you apparently regard as “fact”.
So what else?
Let see in 187 you say:
I heard today that after her stroke she was able to walk, assisted with a walker, and talk – not very well but she could be understood.
[Chris mode on]
Wrong asshole, asswipe, dipshit, worthless piece of shit, insert Chris’ scatological label of the day here..
[Chris mode off]
Where did you dig up this tin foil hat stuff? (Please don’t answer that.) Terri Schiavo had a cardiac arrest. Her brain was damaged because of oxygen deprivation and she’s been in PVS since. Read Judge Greer’s summary of the facts and his decision here (if the words aren’t too big for you).
Sorry Chris. I put a lot more faith in a sitting Judge whose job it is to weigh evidence and arguments, make life and death decisions and then live with them – than your useless insult-laden rants, poor judgement and what passes for your leisure time reading.
Well now that Congress has ordered federal courts to poke their noses into this case, and the first federal judge to look at the evidence has slam-dunked the right-wing ignoramuses who think hydrated cells are equivalent to a conscious human being, what next? Is Congress going to pass a law ordering Terri’s brain to resume conscious thinking? Stay tuned as the flat-earthers continue their Lazarus experiments.
anon @ 393
If we are judged by who our enemies are, then it’s a privilege and an hour to be called a “Nazi” by the likes of you.
“honor” not “hour”
Correction on my last comment:
338 not 187
Oh, by the way,
ANONYM”ASS” @ 91,
I dont know if I mentioned this, but:
“BUTT THE FUCK OUT””!!!
Read conservative John Cole on the Schiavo case.
Like Dori Monson, I disagree with almost everything he writes but on the Schiavo case he is 100% right on.
The money quote: “I am sad for my Republican Party.”
Welcome to the club, John.
Wow! This thread is now over 400 posts. Looks like the Schiavo case struck a raw nerve or two.
Seems the power to be independent is still alive and well.
John @ 400
Very interesting link, John. Everyone else, note especially this part:
“On Friday, as the leaders of both chambers scrambled to try to stop the removal of Ms. Schiavo’s feeding tube, Mr. DeLay, a Texas Republican, turned his attention to social conservatives gathered at a Washington hotel and described what he viewed as the intertwined struggle to save Ms. Schiavo, expand the conservative movement and defend himself against accusations of ethical lapses.
“‘One thing that God has brought to us is Terri Schiavo, to help elevate the visibility of what is going on in America,’ Mr. DeLay told a conference organized by the Family Research Council, a conservative Christian group. … ‘This is exactly the issue that is going on in America, of attacks against the conservative movement, against me and against many others,’ Mr. DeLay said.
“Mr. DeLay complained that ‘the other side’ had figured out how ‘to defeat the conservative movement,’ by waging personal attacks, linking with liberal organizations and persuading the national news media to report the story. He charged that ‘the whole syndicate’ was ‘a huge nationwide concerted effort to destroy everything we believe in.'”
Hmmm, according to DeLay, there’s a vast liberal conspiracy ….
Oh, by the way,
ANONYM”ASS” @ 91,
I dont know if I mentioned this, but:
“BUTT THE FUCK OUT””!!! -Comment by Diggindude— 3/22/05 @ 1:04 pm
Well, well well.
Seems I struck a raw nerve!
Quoting ME:
“And the REASON you won’t/haven’t answered the question is because then you’d have to admit you are indeed a culture of death groupie. The reason you have such angst about the publicity and the public interest in this case is because it slaps right smack in the face the AGENDA of the culture of death. If society says Terri’s life is valuable your groupies will have a tougher time hanging on to the agenda that life has NO value by YOUR set of terms.”
You can’t/won’t answer because you don’t dare expose to the light of day who you really are, what you really stand for… kind of like a COWARD with no courage in his convictions.
And, you can’t disagree because then you’d have to admit Terri’s life can and should have value.
Ahhh, pity the poor relativists caught in their own web of self deception.
Who shall “we” kill next Judge F/O Don and duuuude?
Come on brave boys, post your list.
Anonym”ass”
You lost me, and all credibility in this, back where i answered your question, then proceeded to squash your argument.
1 more time, the answer, just so all these people here can see your argument is empty:
No one wants her to die, they want you to butt out.
Rational people, understand the problem with having the government , and the church, rule people’s private personal affairs.
Again, we want the decision made by the person in charge here. The husband.
Not you, or your wacko winger pals.
Its his choice, and all the false accusations made by you and your ilk, have only lost you more ground.
You have no business in these people’s life.
Thats the thing you cant understand.
I cant answer the question you are really asking, which is: “why cant ANONYM”ASS” decide how everyone else lives?”
This is your real question right?
You people want to peek in windows to make sure every one is doing only what you allow them to do right?
I have an idea, how about everyone has to rebuild their homes out of glass?
Would that make it easier for you to keep track us?
This isn’t a question about death, its a question of privacy. A question of church, and government overstepping its bounds.
wake up.
anon @ 405
You’d be high on anyone’s list of the brain-dead.
John – First of all I never said the information in the affidavit was true. I don’t know. The point is neither do you. You dismiss it out of hand because it says what you don’t want to be true. You won’t accept the possibility the affidavit is accurate, but cannot say with certainty that it is not.
Regarding my comment, “I heard today that after her stroke she was able to walk, assisted with a walker, and talk – not very well but she could be understood.” You fail to mention that I was clear that I had yet to confirm the report. You have yet to debunk the report also, I might add.
As far as the term Stroke….I was quoting the comment I had heard and that I told you I would confirm. Of course I know she had cardiac arrest. Is that they only thing that happened to her? Can you not fathom that a stroke may have occured as a result.
From a website I am sure you won’t agree with………….
(Note: Before her stroke, Terri was a practicing Catholic. The last known public act by Terri before her tragic stroke was her public confession of her faith in her church, demonstrated by Terri’s acceptance of Holy Communion.)
No Diggindum, it is all about LIFE!! Theresa Marie is an innocent disabled woman that deserves to have her day in court. I hope the DOJ takes her into protective custody. She is afterall a witness.
DD, what are you so emotional about? this cuts right into the heart of pro-life and you radicals hate that don’t you?
yes, Carla the Nurse is lying through her teeth but Michael is not. what a bunch of hypocrites.
if she called the police there is a record of that call. If her administrator called DCS there should be a record of that. Bt why was she fired the next day? Hmmmmmm, reasonable doubt I’d say. But then again I stand up for the living.
“when is that bitch gonna die?”
anon @ 391, that sounds like the neo-progressive movement aka liberal, more intelligent, more enlightened, democrats. the pro-abortion crowd, pro euthanasia, japanese internment camp crowd. socialism, coming to a democratic convention near you, hosted by Doctor Dean and Dr Cranford. Sponsored by the proceeds from George Felos book sales.
you got dude worked up in a frenzy. this is hilarious.
Chardummy @ 09 LOL!
Quit trying to say its about killing her.
Ive told you many, many times, If he wanted to keep her alive, i would support his wishes also.
What you want, is control. Nothing to do with this patient. You just want to hold her up as a trophy.
What about the law gwdummy signed taking people off life support that have no money?
Its not about saving a life with you people. You just want to stick your noses into everyones affairs, all the while you holler about goverment rules and regulations.
It seems your wacko team, is at odds with itself on this one.
Cant tell whether youre coming or going.
Why am i emotional?
Im concerned about the neobushfascist crowd, tramping on “MY” constitution.
http://www.earnedmedia.org/bonescan.htm
BONE SCAN…..1991, NEVER ADMITTED INTO EVIDENCE. FUCKING BASTARD BEAT HER!!!
dd @ I DONT CARE,
YOU’VE TOLD ME MANY TIMES HUH? THAT IS FUNNY. DO YOU SIGN MY PAYCHECK NOW? end all caps
you lost me……
Duuuude, it’s not about what I want… it’s about what we as a society want to be.
Do we want to be a society that treasures and protects life?
Or do we want to be a society that disregards it?
I don’t presume to know where Michel Schiavo’s morality lies, except by his extraordinary actions to END a life, when he could far easier end his ASSOCIATION with that life.
I know what side I’m on, with absolutely NO ambiguity, even when that “side” has to protect even cop-killing donkey farts like Mumia Abu-Jumal. I’m on hte side that errs FOR life.
What side are you on, UNambiguously?
and btw Duuuuude, you never got around to citing where “YOUR CONSTITUTION” give you a right to die…
It seems to me the DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE says:
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”
And gosh, pulling out my Westlaw pocket copy of the Constitution of The United States …OH MY GOD! No right to die there EITHER!
Rational people, understand the problem with having the government , and the church, rule people’s private personal affairs. -Comment by Diggindude— 3/22/05 @ 2:50 pm
BRAVO DUUUUUDE!
Exactly!
Which is why you surely joined us in castigating the activist courts and the law breaking mayors (you know, those government guys) that tried so hard to allow homosexual marriage.
Now come on duuuuude – take a side … life or death?
Goldy –
What single thread holds the record for most comments at HA? Okay, granted, it seems most comments on this one are by 6 or 7 individuals…
Yooo hooo… Duuuuude!
It’s pretty darn convenient when the “government overstepping its bounds” are the bounds YOU want over stepped isn’t it?
Quoting ME:
“And the REASON you won’t/haven’t answered the question is because then you’d have to admit you are indeed a culture of death groupie. The reason you have such angst about the publicity and the public interest in this case is because it slaps right smack in the face the AGENDA of the culture of death. If society says Terri’s life is valuable your groupies will have a tougher time hanging on to the agenda that life has NO value by YOUR set of terms.”
You can’t/won’t answer because you don’t dare expose to the light of day who you really are, what you really stand for… kind of like a COWARD with no courage in his convictions.
And, you can’t disagree because then you’d have to admit Terri’s life can and should have value.
Ahhh, pity the poor relativists caught in their own web of self deception.
im done answering you.
you havent brought anything forward that i havent addressed.
Im watching you twitching and twirling at the end of you argument.
No where to go from out there is there.?
ok, back in your cage now.
next…
anonymous –
I asked, and you answered @83. I believe in the sanctity of life, as you do, but I also hold to one fact that is beyond compromise, and that is the rule of law. You can’t change the rules after the fact. If you can, this country is no longer a nation of law; it is one of anarchy and mob rule. I do not deny the fact that that this case is special, or perhaps, extraordinary.
The fact remains; the rule of law has been applied. I disagree with how it was applied, or more to the point, the law was wrong as written, but that means smart people need to ensure this does not happen again. That
maydoes mean Terri is a martyr (God, forgive me!).The court has ruled. There was always little hope in Terri overcoming this because of the laws that apply. Now it is time to figure out how it will never happen again. Contact your representatives and do something other than ask for somebody else’s not-so-forthcoming answer.
The fact the law does not always work in a way which favors all, is understandable.
What is wrong with the law as it stands?
I dont see anything happening here, that should be done differently.
Are you suggesting the gov’t should take over when our last wishes arent to everyones liking?
Duuude, Duuuuude, Duuuude…
You continue to treat us to rambling explainations, diatribes and rants and all I want is 1 itsy bitsy, teeny, little word….
LIFE or DEATH?
Stand up and be counted Duuuuuude….
Show us the courage of your convictions….
Stand right ^UP^ and shout out what you stand for…
LIFE or DEATH?
the law says what exactly DD? Most people know you need a living will, why did Michael Schiavo wait SEVEN YEARS -7- before he bothered to mention his beloved wifes wishes?
what would you seriously expect to happen if you did not have a living will and there was an accident that left your wife in a coma or something? what would you expect to happen, legally, at the hosital?
There is so much reasonable doubt here, the Judge who (legaly blind) refused so much evidence and testimony. The activist Dr Cranford and author/activist Attorney. How can it possibly be that every single person involved is LYING except The judge, the DR., MS and the Attorney?
DD, the truth is that when you get called to answer specific questions, you evade and then start spinning and Bush bashing. Nice game but it’s really old. Admit what you are, since you have specifically stated you are not a Democrat, instead you are your own man. Nobody controls the great DD, the mangod.
chardonnay @ 409
Wingnuts are pro-life only when they feel like it, and certainly not when they feel like starting a war, executing someone, letting people starve, or denying millions of people basic health care.
“”Why are you so anxious to see her dead? “”
Comment by anonymous— 3/22/05
This was the question.
Ive repeated : i would support the decision of the patient, or her guardian, whichever he decided.
If he said it was her wish to live, then i would support him keeping her alive. If she said nothing to him, it is still his decision, as her spouse, and guardian.
If he is found guilty of some crime, (Like you and cg have already charged and convicted him of), then he may lose his rights as guardian, and the decisions will fall to the parents.
If the parents then keep her alive, and they know it was her wish to not remain in this limbo, are they going to be critisized by you?
I answered it so many times, but you keep saying i didnt.
As far as bush bashing, how could i not engage in a little of that?
He stuck himself in the fray, not the other way around.
All politicians that are using this as their own football, should be chastized by you, but you’ve jumped on the wrong bandwagon. You’ve chosen the side of interfering in personal private affairs, and if the government leans this way in the future, we will all suffer from it.
I am not evading anything. This basic right to privacy, is not open for debate in my book.
If you want to see some spin, look back at some of the crazy things you’ve been saying.
Look back at what anonym”ass” has been accusing me of.
Im hitler, because I dont want wackos interfering in peoples private decisions.
We should all be on the same side on this one, especially, as you claim to be of those that want less intrusion by gov’t.
This shows just how hypocritical the new republicans are.
Since you brought it up again, did you see bush tonight stomping around in az. trying to get ANYONE to listen to his faulty s.s. plan?
joker……
To All of You Who Profess to Believe in the Sanctity of Life
How many demonstrations have you participated in to protest the bombing of Iraqi civilians and/or the torture murders of detainees in U.S. custody?
Write number here –> ____
I participate in one, every time i talk to a bush wacko.
Denied
Well, well, congratulations grim reapers, another victory for the culture of death groupies, the eugenics minded judiciary and the pro death mainstream media propagandists.
Try not to wake your neighbors while celebrating.
Try not to become so besotted in your victory that you succumb to alcohol poisining or drown in the toilet of your own vomit… the next celebration may be for YOUR execution.
Duuude, duuude, duuude.
You keep giving us lengthy explainations, rants and diatribes when all we ask is ONE simple little word…
LIFE or DEATH?
Take a stand.
Stand UP proudly for your convictions and shout em out…
LIFE or DEATH?
Don’t be so ashamed/afraid/reluctant to NAME what you stand for…
LIFE or DEATH?
What an absolute IDIOT DeLay is. He stated today on an interview that ‘Schiavo is just ‘handicapped’ like millions of other US citizens’ The real handicapped persons are DELAY and the TEXAS TACO
Anonym”ass” @ waste of time
ok
DD & other right to die liberals
So passionate about this case yet refusal to see both sides. We have had no choice but to hear the husbands side. the judge ruled in his favor based soley on his statement that this is what Terri wanted. But there is no proof. seven years passed before he bothered to mention Terri’s wishes.
Before this was consuming our lives it was everyones assumption that if you did not have a living will in writing, you would be kept alive at all costs. Life support. Why is this different now? No one is denying the fact that a husband and wife have the right to make decision for each other if one shall be incapacitated. I am not, you are not, we agree on that. The problem with this particular case is the mounds of evidence that was refused to be heard. Connect the dots of the key players associated with the assisted suicide movement.
SHOCK em first right? thats the MO of the left. After we shock em we can then bring in our experts to advocate the cause and manipulate the public with 1/2 truths and lies.
liberalism is a mental disorder. when will you socialist learn that if it didn’t work for Hitler, Stalin and other dictators it will not work for you either.
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah plenty of talk Duuuuude but still refusing to answer the question.
One little word Dudester…
LIFE or DEATH?
See?
You can’t answer.
And we all know the reason why you can’t answer is one of 2 choices…
If you answer LIFE you will be humiliated by exposing your hypocrisy of pandering in the litterbox of your liberal pals.
OR
As most donkey humping cowardly liberals you hide behind by obfuscating, reframing the arguement, changing the subject and name calling because admitting you stand for DEATH is too ugly to admit out loud or even to yourself.
No worries though Dudester, The PETA Popple Puppets came to our high school yesterday… their latest terrorist incursion is against KFC, so they’ll save you from the Colonel…BAWK! BAWK BAWK!
I have no problem with them pulling the plug on her.
Its not an issue for me.
I have no problem with them keeping her alive. again, not an issue.
Not “MY” issue.
you sure are making a fool of yourself.
Although, i admit, my answering your foolish posts is helping to encourage you.
Its obvious where rationality lies here.
Except, whem attempting to apply it to irrational people.(insert wacko repubs. here)
No Issue?
Then take a stand.
Which side are you on…
LIFE or DEATH?
We are no longer talking party preference here kiddo.
No longer talking Terri or conservative or liberal or religion or husband rights or states rights or judicial activism or the Constitution.
We have boiled this discussion down to one single question… one which you refuse to answer.
Are you coming down on the side of LIFE or DEATH – which culture do you want to be associated with?
LIFE or DEATH?
And remember… not answering is an answer and reveals much about what you are… or aren’t.
And the silence is deafening.
Let’s give the duuuuudester 24 hours and then we’ll put his status up for a VOTE:
Is the Duuuuudester a
Hypocrite who will be humiliated by exposing your hypocrisy of pandering in the litterbox of your liberal pals.
OR
A donkey humping cowardly liberals hiding behind by obfuscating, reframing the arguement, changing the subject and name calling because admitting you stand for DEATH is too ugly to admit out loud or even to yourself.
10:34AM – let the polls open
anass @ 441 I believe the polls have already closed, and you dear one, have been left miles behind reality. Don’t you understand that absolutely no one here gives a rep’s as* about you and your neocon ideas?
Thanks, i forgot i left one troll hanging.
Sure is a guppy to last all day though huh?
FISH ON!!!
LOL!
BAW! BAWK! BAWK! chicken duuuuude.
Answer the question chicken duuuuuude….
LIFE or DEATH chicken duuuuuuude
We are no longer talking party preference here kiddo.
No longer talking Terri or conservative or liberal or religion or husband rights or states rights or judicial activism or the Constitution.
We have boiled this discussion down to one single question… one which you refuse to answer.
Are you coming down on the side of LIFE or DEATH – which culture do you want to be associated with?
LIFE or DEATH?
And remember… not answering is an answer and reveals much about what you are… or aren’t.
How cute…the chickenduuuuude got the jpiggeee to defend him in the donkeys den!
Quite the little liberal barnyard.
Has this worked for you before? Maybe you should have your tube disconnected.
Yes, in your case, im on the death team.
Now go play on the freeway where you belong.
Dont forget to sign your will. Gregoire might have to have your anal tube re-inserted.
You do realize, don’t you duuuuude that even your liberal pals are sitting at their screens laughing at you:
When you refuse to answer, as you are so studiously avoiding doing, you look like a complete FOOL and/or 2yr old trying to deny reality.
If you answer LIFE you will be humiliated by exposing your hypocrisy of pandering in the litterbox of your liberal pals.
OR
If you answer DEATH even you won’t be able to run from the repugnancy of your own beliefs.
Quite the nice corner you’ve painted yourself into.
Please turn around so we don’t have to see your ugly yellow streak.
Yes this corner ive painted myself into is quite crowded, in case you havent noticed.
Most every thinking person here, agrees with me to some extent.
The fact you need to belong to a “side”, shows how narrow and biased your views are.
It seems, over 70% of the nation believes as I do.
You are part of a small minority of far right religios fanatics, in your beliefs.
If we take a vote, who’s views will prevail?
And again, I can only make my point perfectly clear, as I am limited by spoken word.
I have no desire to see her live or die.
My view is, the last wishes of a person are to be respected, not held up for approval, by people with views such as yours.
I feel if someone terminal, or incapacitated, without hope, has the right to end their life, if thats their wish.
One thing it is NOT, however, is up to people like you.
Now I’m going back to the adults section, ok?
If you want to join in some meaningful discussion, I’ll be with the grown ups.
Words, words, words, blah, blah, blah, still saying nothing.
The corner you’ve painted is REFUSING to answer a simple damned question.
A simple one word question… LIFE or DEATH??
WHY ARE YOU AFRAID TO ANSWER IT?
See duuuuuuude your problem is this…
If you are such a COWARD that you can’t even call something by its name, you can’t even begin to discuss it honestly.
So come on duuuuuuude, we’re all waiting….
Define your the philosophy of your existance….
LIFE
or
DEATH?
We are no longer talking party preference here kiddo.
No longer talking Terri or conservative or liberal or religion or husband rights or states rights or judicial activism or the Constitution.
We have boiled this discussion down to one single question… one which you refuse to answer.
Are you coming down on the side of LIFE or DEATH – which culture do you want to be associated with?
LIFE or DEATH?
Yes this corner ive painted myself into is quite crowded, in case you havent noticed.
Most every thinking person here, agrees with me to some extent. -Comment by Diggindude— 3/24/05 @ 8:45 am
Sorry kiddo, NO ONE agrees with you…or disagrees with you… YOU ARE TOO MUCH OF A COWARD TO TAKE A STAND.
We are no longer talking party preference here kiddo.
No longer talking Terri or conservative or liberal or religion or husband rights or states rights or judicial activism or the Constitution.
We have boiled this discussion down to one single question… one which you refuse to answer.
Are you coming down on the side of LIFE or DEATH – which culture do you want to be associated with?
LIFE or DEATH?
I think goldy should consider holding your posts for review.
How about it goldy?
Is this guy being a productive member of the discussion?
Hang on, I’ll email him to see if he can fix it.
chicken shit diggindude, refuse to answer the question, why? whatcha afraid of? this is hillaryious, your not going to answer yet you are calling for Goldy to rescue you.
“goldy, help me, Ive fallin and I can’t get up, can you delete this bad persons posts.”
dude, you have been so sure of yourself, what changed? no “Bush lied” come backs this time? You attack others all day long, when it comes back to bite you in the ass you cry???
I am surprised. Well DD, GOOD FRIDAY to you. Eat drink and be merry, Terri will thirst.
I havent denied to answer anything. There has to be a question posed first.
This person is like you, full of senseless rhetoric.
There is no question, i havent answered.
If you mean him trying to make me decide the fate of terri schiavo, are you totally out of your mind?
I mean, i’ve read all you stupid accusations, and thought you were just needing to get your scrips refilled, but now this.
I really dont understand what the question is.
Here, do i think she should be left off the tube? do I personally think so?
Yes!
I think, what is laying in that hospice room, is not terri schiavo anymore, i think whats left, is basically just tissue, being kept animated, like some science experiment.
She died many years ago.
She has no cognitive functions, and no chance at recovery, and is being used as a pawn for political gain.
I havent been rescued by anyone, and as far as attacking people, what else do you do?
You and cg, thats all you’ve done on this blog.
I’ve been a voice of reason for the most part.
I know how you,cg,and anonym”ass” feel, you’ve lost, you backed the wrong team, and now you see how nasty and totally fkd up, the right wing wackos are.(the team of which you all are charter members, i might add)
Now what, you want to get on the bandwagon with the rational people?
No way!
These guys should go over to king5, and christmasghosttown, and see how fkd up you guys REALLY are!!
I think you should refill your prozac, before you shoot up the office.
I havent denied to answer anything. There has to be a question posed first. – Comment by Diggindude— 3/24/05 @ 8:52 pm
That’s a joke right?
I have now framed and asked the SAME question over a dozen times:
We are no longer talking party preference here kiddo.
No longer talking Terri or conservative or liberal or religion or husband rights or states rights or judicial activism or the Constitution.
We have boiled this discussion down to one single question… one which you refuse to answer.
Are you coming down on the side of LIFE or DEATH – which culture do you want to be associated with?
LIFE or DEATH?
Are you totally incapable of giving a one word answer?
PICK ONE… ONE LITTLE WORD… THAT DEFINES THE PHILOSOPHY GUIDING *YOUR* EXISTENCE …
LIFE or DEATH?
Choose.
SEE? he won’t answer. Instead he comes back with right wing BS as if the left has no role in this saga.I just heard your Michael Schiavo on Larry King talking about right wing. I wonder where he got that. His attorney GF, stated the ACLU was on his side. ACLU and politics go hand in hand and they are always on the left.
I would say you answered the question when you called her a science exp and tissue. Reminds me of what george felos called her, a house plant.
thats what i thought.
You shouldnt wonder why you have the reputation of an idiot here char.
Youre in good company.
DEFINE YOUR EXISTENCE DUUUUUDE…
LIFE OR DEATH?
That’s a joke right?
I have now framed and asked the SAME question over a dozen times:
We are no longer talking party preference here kiddo.
No longer talking Terri or conservative or liberal or religion or husband rights or states rights or judicial activism or the Constitution.
We have boiled this discussion down to one single question… one which you refuse to answer.
Are you coming down on the side of LIFE or DEATH – which culture do you want to be associated with?
LIFE or DEATH?
Are you totally incapable of giving a one word answer?
PICK ONE… ONE LITTLE WORD… THAT DEFINES THE PHILOSOPHY GUIDING *YOUR* EXISTENCE …
LIFE or DEATH?
Choose.
Comment by anonymous
Sorry kiddo, NO ONE agrees with you…or disagrees with you… YOU ARE TOO MUCH OF A COWARD TO TAKE A STAND.
We are no longer talking party preference here kiddo.
No longer talking Terri or conservative or liberal or religion or husband rights or states rights or judicial activism or the Constitution.
We have boiled this discussion down to one single question… one which you refuse to answer.
Are you coming down on the side of LIFE or DEATH – which culture do you want to be associated with?
LIFE or DEATH?
Comment by anonymous
Words, words, words, blah, blah, blah, still saying nothing.
The corner you’ve painted is REFUSING to answer a simple damned question.
A simple one word question… LIFE or DEATH??
WHY ARE YOU AFRAID TO ANSWER IT?
See duuuuuuude your problem is this…
If you are such a COWARD that you can’t even call something by its name, you can’t even begin to discuss it honestly.
So come on duuuuuuude, we’re all waiting….
Define your the philosophy of your existance….
LIFE
or
DEATH?
We are no longer talking party preference here kiddo.
No longer talking Terri or conservative or liberal or religion or husband rights or states rights or judicial activism or the Constitution.
We have boiled this discussion down to one single question… one which you refuse to answer.
Are you coming down on the side of LIFE or DEATH – which culture do you want to be associated with?
LIFE or DEATH?
Comment by anonymous
You do realize, don’t you duuuuude that even your liberal pals are sitting at their screens laughing at you:
When you refuse to answer, as you are so studiously avoiding doing, you look like a complete FOOL and/or 2yr old trying to deny reality.
If you answer LIFE you will be humiliated by exposing your hypocrisy of pandering in the litterbox of your liberal pals.
OR
If you answer DEATH even you won’t be able to run from the repugnancy of your own beliefs.
Quite the nice corner you’ve painted yourself into.
Please turn around so we don’t have to see your ugly yellow streak.
Comment by anonymous
We are no longer talking party preference here kiddo.
No longer talking Terri or conservative or liberal or religion or husband rights or states rights or judicial activism or the Constitution.
We have boiled this discussion down to one single question… one which you refuse to answer.
Are you coming down on the side of LIFE or DEATH – which culture do you want to be associated with?
LIFE or DEATH?
And remember… not answering is an answer and reveals much about what you are… or aren’t.
Comment by anonymous
That’s a joke right?
I have now framed and asked the SAME question over a dozen times:
We are no longer talking party preference here kiddo.
No longer talking Terri or conservative or liberal or religion or husband rights or states rights or judicial activism or the Constitution.
We have boiled this discussion down to one single question… one which you refuse to answer.
Are you coming down on the side of LIFE or DEATH – which culture do you want to be associated with?
LIFE or DEATH?
Are you totally incapable of giving a one word answer?
PICK ONE… ONE LITTLE WORD… THAT DEFINES THE PHILOSOPHY GUIDING *YOUR* EXISTENCE …
LIFE or DEATH?
Choose.
Comment by anonymous
Sorry kiddo, NO ONE agrees with you…or disagrees with you… YOU ARE TOO MUCH OF A COWARD TO TAKE A STAND.
We are no longer talking party preference here kiddo.
No longer talking Terri or conservative or liberal or religion or husband rights or states rights or judicial activism or the Constitution.
We have boiled this discussion down to one single question… one which you refuse to answer.
Are you coming down on the side of LIFE or DEATH – which culture do you want to be associated with?
LIFE or DEATH?
Comment by anonymous
Words, words, words, blah, blah, blah, still saying nothing.
The corner you’ve painted is REFUSING to answer a simple damned question.
A simple one word question… LIFE or DEATH??
WHY ARE YOU AFRAID TO ANSWER IT?
See duuuuuuude your problem is this…
If you are such a COWARD that you can’t even call something by its name, you can’t even begin to discuss it honestly.
So come on duuuuuuude, we’re all waiting….
Define your the philosophy of your existance….
LIFE
or
DEATH?
We are no longer talking party preference here kiddo.
No longer talking Terri or conservative or liberal or religion or husband rights or states rights or judicial activism or the Constitution.
We have boiled this discussion down to one single question… one which you refuse to answer.
Are you coming down on the side of LIFE or DEATH – which culture do you want to be associated with?
LIFE or DEATH?
Comment by anonymous
You do realize, don’t you duuuuude that even your liberal pals are sitting at their screens laughing at you:
When you refuse to answer, as you are so studiously avoiding doing, you look like a complete FOOL and/or 2yr old trying to deny reality.
If you answer LIFE you will be humiliated by exposing your hypocrisy of pandering in the litterbox of your liberal pals.
OR
If you answer DEATH even you won’t be able to run from the repugnancy of your own beliefs.
Quite the nice corner you’ve painted yourself into.
Please turn around so we don’t have to see your ugly yellow streak.
Comment by anonymous
We are no longer talking party preference here kiddo.
No longer talking Terri or conservative or liberal or religion or husband rights or states rights or judicial activism or the Constitution.
We have boiled this discussion down to one single question… one which you refuse to answer.
Are you coming down on the side of LIFE or DEATH – which culture do you want to be associated with?
LIFE or DEATH?
And remember… not answering is an answer and reveals much about what you are… or aren’t.
Comment by anonymous
That’s a joke right?
I have now framed and asked the SAME question over a dozen times:
We are no longer talking party preference here kiddo.
No longer talking Terri or conservative or liberal or religion or husband rights or states rights or judicial activism or the Constitution.
We have boiled this discussion down to one single question… one which you refuse to answer.
Are you coming down on the side of LIFE or DEATH – which culture do you want to be associated with?
LIFE or DEATH?
Are you totally incapable of giving a one word answer?
PICK ONE… ONE LITTLE WORD… THAT DEFINES THE PHILOSOPHY GUIDING *YOUR* EXISTENCE …
LIFE or DEATH?
Choose.
Comment by anonymous
Sorry kiddo, NO ONE agrees with you…or disagrees with you… YOU ARE TOO MUCH OF A COWARD TO TAKE A STAND.
We are no longer talking party preference here kiddo.
No longer talking Terri or conservative or liberal or religion or husband rights or states rights or judicial activism or the Constitution.
We have boiled this discussion down to one single question… one which you refuse to answer.
Are you coming down on the side of LIFE or DEATH – which culture do you want to be associated with?
LIFE or DEATH?
Comment by anonymous
Words, words, words, blah, blah, blah, still saying nothing.
The corner you’ve painted is REFUSING to answer a simple damned question.
A simple one word question… LIFE or DEATH??
WHY ARE YOU AFRAID TO ANSWER IT?
See duuuuuuude your problem is this…
If you are such a COWARD that you can’t even call something by its name, you can’t even begin to discuss it honestly.
So come on duuuuuuude, we’re all waiting….
Define your the philosophy of your existance….
LIFE
or
DEATH?
We are no longer talking party preference here kiddo.
No longer talking Terri or conservative or liberal or religion or husband rights or states rights or judicial activism or the Constitution.
We have boiled this discussion down to one single question… one which you refuse to answer.
Are you coming down on the side of LIFE or DEATH – which culture do you want to be associated with?
LIFE or DEATH?
Comment by anonymous
You do realize, don’t you duuuuude that even your liberal pals are sitting at their screens laughing at you:
When you refuse to answer, as you are so studiously avoiding doing, you look like a complete FOOL and/or 2yr old trying to deny reality.
If you answer LIFE you will be humiliated by exposing your hypocrisy of pandering in the litterbox of your liberal pals.
OR
If you answer DEATH even you won’t be able to run from the repugnancy of your own beliefs.
Quite the nice corner you’ve painted yourself into.
Please turn around so we don’t have to see your ugly yellow streak.
Comment by anonymous
We are no longer talking party preference here kiddo.
No longer talking Terri or conservative or liberal or religion or husband rights or states rights or judicial activism or the Constitution.
We have boiled this discussion down to one single question… one which you refuse to answer.
Are you coming down on the side of LIFE or DEATH – which culture do you want to be associated with?
LIFE or DEATH?
And remember… not answering is an answer and reveals much about what you are… or aren’t.
Comment by anonymous
That’s a joke right?
I have now framed and asked the SAME question over a dozen times:
We are no longer talking party preference here kiddo.
No longer talking Terri or conservative or liberal or religion or husband rights or states rights or judicial activism or the Constitution.
We have boiled this discussion down to one single question… one which you refuse to answer.
Are you coming down on the side of LIFE or DEATH – which culture do you want to be associated with?
LIFE or DEATH?
Are you totally incapable of giving a one word answer?
PICK ONE… ONE LITTLE WORD… THAT DEFINES THE PHILOSOPHY GUIDING *YOUR* EXISTENCE …
LIFE or DEATH?
Choose.
Comment by anonymous
Sorry kiddo, NO ONE agrees with you…or disagrees with you… YOU ARE TOO MUCH OF A COWARD TO TAKE A STAND.
We are no longer talking party preference here kiddo.
No longer talking Terri or conservative or liberal or religion or husband rights or states rights or judicial activism or the Constitution.
We have boiled this discussion down to one single question… one which you refuse to answer.
Are you coming down on the side of LIFE or DEATH – which culture do you want to be associated with?
LIFE or DEATH?
Comment by anonymous
Words, words, words, blah, blah, blah, still saying nothing.
The corner you’ve painted is REFUSING to answer a simple damned question.
A simple one word question… LIFE or DEATH??
WHY ARE YOU AFRAID TO ANSWER IT?
See duuuuuuude your problem is this…
If you are such a COWARD that you can’t even call something by its name, you can’t even begin to discuss it honestly.
So come on duuuuuuude, we’re all waiting….
Define your the philosophy of your existance….
LIFE
or
DEATH?
We are no longer talking party preference here kiddo.
No longer talking Terri or conservative or liberal or religion or husband rights or states rights or judicial activism or the Constitution.
We have boiled this discussion down to one single question… one which you refuse to answer.
Are you coming down on the side of LIFE or DEATH – which culture do you want to be associated with?
LIFE or DEATH?
Comment by anonymous
You do realize, don’t you duuuuude that even your liberal pals are sitting at their screens laughing at you:
When you refuse to answer, as you are so studiously avoiding doing, you look like a complete FOOL and/or 2yr old trying to deny reality.
If you answer LIFE you will be humiliated by exposing your hypocrisy of pandering in the litterbox of your liberal pals.
OR
If you answer DEATH even you won’t be able to run from the repugnancy of your own beliefs.
Quite the nice corner you’ve painted yourself into.
Please turn around so we don’t have to see your ugly yellow streak.
Comment by anonymous
We are no longer talking party preference here kiddo.
No longer talking Terri or conservative or liberal or religion or husband rights or states rights or judicial activism or the Constitution.
We have boiled this discussion down to one single question… one which you refuse to answer.
Are you coming down on the side of LIFE or DEATH – which culture do you want to be associated with?
LIFE or DEATH?
And remember… not answering is an answer and reveals much about what you are… or aren’t.
Comment by anonymous
whoa what happened there????
Ahhh I see I have a clone with a capital A… how cute!
HEARSAY
HIS STATEMENT OF HEARSAY IS PRESUMED VALID
YET FAMILY AND BEST FRIENDS IS INVALID.
Coming this fall, made for TV movie
HOW TO LEGALLY MURDER YOUR WIFE
comment by chardonnay
that came directly from the nurses affidavit. the very same affidavit that Judge Greer did not allow. The nurse reported to her administrator, that she found a needle and needle marks on Terri in 3 places, she was sweating, her blood sugar was low, after Michale had been in the room with Terri withthe door locked.
She then called the police, they came to her home and took a report. The next day she was fired.
the affidavit is available for the world to see at terrisfight.org
http://www.blogsforterri.com
I suggest you read codeblueblog.blogs.com
everyone is lying except michael, right? 4 neuologists, 3 nurses, 2 speech pathologists, 2 internists, 1 neuro psychologist, all lying.
Dr Cranford, 45 minutes with Terri, he is the star witness and totally believable, right?
comment by chardonnay
Theresa Marie has NEVER had a MRI, you can say EEG as many times as you want, it means nothing without more conclusive xrays, tests. all of which have been denied.
yes, lets all just butt-out and let allow the kavorkians to kill people, legally. we shall just sit back and mind our own business. it is a private family matter. just like abortion. just like our property rights, just like how we discipline our children, just like how we should allow gay marriage.
what is the governments business? who is the government? what are we, this population, a citizenry, we the people? A society, a whole body.
A nation of laws not men. last time I checked, murder was still against the law, well at least for now. Once Terri dies we can add a constitutional amendment…the husbands property, he can beat his property into a coma, or shake his property senseless, then call Dr Cranford, George Felos and quickly transport “his” property to the “correct” hospice facility, where the Judge has ties. wink wink!!
soon it will be the norm and the left will abolish the death penalty and pedophiles will become members of the teachers union. what a lovely world.
butt-out? I shall not.
comment by chardonnay
diggindude,aka dumdum, and many other copy cat names from other forums.
you are the cloner king, you did this same thing on king5. I doubt very much GOLDY will appreciate you taking up a majority of his bandwidth.
did you notice over at king5 that most of your posts have been deleted?
BUSTED!
DD, @ 464
I was asleep way before @ 11:36 PM, nice try. copy paste = copy cat.
I cannot understand why you let yourself get out of control like this.
Excuse me?
Prozac char, its in the bathroom cabinet.
Well I see the coward boy still won’t answer. How typical and predictable.
Diggindude, I know what you see when you look in the mirror.
You see a big, fat ZERO… a moral cipher…a vacuum of nothing… a non-entity with the courage, the honesty, the moral convictions of a slug…the moral values of a useless bowl of leftover jello who cannot face the world, who cannot face an anonymous forum, who cannot face himself and say unambigously…
I BELIEVE IN LIFE.
or
I DON’T BELIEVE IN LIFE.
I cannot fathom how anyone can exist without a moral compass, without a guiding philosophy…or why they would want to. I cannot fathom pretending to be a human with the core values of a rock.
Good luck, you poor, empty, pitiful being… you really are going to need it.
Wow, you can see all that?
You really got me pegged!
I’ll have to admit, these things you’ve posted for all to see, are very enlightening.
And here i thought i was schoolin ya!?
wow, you sure showed me!!
I know a place you would really like!
Its over at christmasghosttown.com.
Theres never any waiting, as no one posts there except christmasghost and chardummy.
You would fit right in, they are all intellectuals, just like you.
I’m very proud of you, in the way you can address the issues, by following one person around like this.
You’ve made such a difference here, even goldy feels threatened by you brilliance.
Are you going to share some of your profound logic and reason again like you did last night?
From now on, as long as you like, im going to transfer your thoughts to front and center for you.
You’re so smart, i think you should share this with the class.
I cant pay you for your work, I’m like a republican, in this sense, but i can offer you notoriety!
I only hope its enough.
Are you praying for terri tonight?
On a hunger stike maybe?
You know how much she needs all the real supporters like you.
You people are doing so much for her, parading her broken wasted body around the internet and on television screens.
I just know, deep down, THIS is what she REALLY wanted.
How could she ask for any more than to be used as a poster child for the dwindling bush fascists. I’ll bet, as a catholic, it would have warmed her heart to see how the church and the republican party have shamed themselves so deeply.
Keep up the good work.
Happy easter.
I cannot fathom how anyone can exist without a moral compass, without a guiding philosophy…or why they would want to. I cannot fathom pretending to be a human with the core values of a rock.
Good luck, you poor, empty, pitiful being… you really are going to need it.
come on DD, spill it, elroy.net
that is his moral compass. the great exhaulted elroy, teacher of how to twist bible verses to suit your current argument.
socialist
…
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