Light posting this weekend as I focus on some system maintenance. So talk amongst yourselves.
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Holy cow, 18 minutes and yet 100% of the postings on this thread are by Aaron.
KLake is homoerotic.
ken mehlman – top r – is being outed national on sveral show
self oppressed homo = sad
burner is toast – need to concede – quit stringing out the cordial process
WA is now MA. We’ll have Democratic Senators and a Democratic statehouse for the next few decades (at least). We’ll have a couple of Republican Reps at times.
And, like in MA, at times we’ll have an R Governor. But, true conservatives will call this person a RINO, as he (or she) will be socially liberally and pro-business. No true conservative in WA will win a statewide race in any reader of the blog’s lifetime.
Media~”We have lost the peace in Iraq”
“We are in a cabin deep down below decks on a Navy ship jam-packed with troops that’s pitching and creaking its way across the Atlantic in a winter gale. There is a man in every bunk. There’s a man wedged into every corner. There’s a man in every chair. The air is dense with cigarette smoke and with the staleness of packed troops and sour wool.
“Don’t think I’m sticking up for the Germans,” puts in the lanky young captain in the upper berth, “but…”
“To hell with the Germans,” says the broad-shouldered dark lieutenant. “It’s what our boys have been doing that worries me.”
The lieutenant has been talking about the traffic in Army property, the leaking of gasoline into the black market in France and Belgium even while the fighting was going on, the way the Army kicks the civilians around, the looting.
“Lust, liquor and loot are the soldier’s pay,” interrupts a red-faced major.
The lieutenant comes out with his conclusion: “Two wrongs don’t make a right.” You hear these two phrases again and again in about every bull session on the shop. “Two wrongs don’t make a right” and “Don’t think I’m sticking up for the Germans, but….”
The troops returning home are worried. “We’ve lost the peace,” men tell you. “We can’t make it stick.””
Does this still apply today?
Media~”We have lost the peace in Iraq”
A tour of the beaten-up cities of Europe six months after victory is a mighty sobering experience for anyone. Europeans. Friend and foe alike, look you accusingly in the face and tell you how bitterly they are disappointed in you as an American. They cite the evolution of the word “liberation.” Before the Normandy landings it meant to be freed from the tyranny of the Nazis. Now it stands in the minds of the civilians for one thing, looting.
You try to explain to these Europeans that they expected too much. They answer that they had a right to, that after the last was America was the hope of the world. They talk about the Hoover relief, the work of the Quakers, the speeches of Woodrow Wilson. They don’t blame us for the fading of that hope. But they blame us now in Iraq”
Media~”We have lost the peace in Iraq”
Never has American prestige in Europe been lower. People never tire of telling you of the ignorance and rowdy-ism of American troops, of out misunderstanding of European conditions. They say that the theft and sale of Army supplies by our troops is the basis of their black market. They blame us for the corruption and disorganization of UNRRA. They blame us for the fumbling timidity of our negotiations with the Soviet Union. They tell us that our mechanical de-nazification policy in Germany is producing results opposite to those we planned. “Have you no statesmen in America?” they ask.
Does this still apply today?
The skeptical French press
Yet whenever we show a trace of positive leadership I found Europeans quite willing to follow our lead. The evening before Robert Jackson’s opening of the case for the prosecution in the Nurnberg trial, I talked to some correspondents from the French newspapers. They were polite but skeptical. They were willing enough to take part in a highly publicized act of vengeance against the enemy, but when you talked about the usefulness of writing a prohibition of aggressive war into the law of nations they laughed in your face. The night after Jackson’s nobly delivered and nobly worded speech I saw then all again. They were very much impressed. Their manner had even changed toward me personally as an American. Their sudden enthusiasm seemed to me typical of the almost neurotic craving for leadership of the European people struggling wearily for existence in the wintry ruins of their world.
Does this still apply today?
The skeptical French press
The ruin this war has left in Europe can hardly be exaggerated. I can remember the years after the last war. Then, as soon as you got away from the military, all the little strands and pulleys that form the fabric of a society were still knitted together. Farmers took their crops to market. Money was a valid medium of exchange. Now the entire fabric of a million little routines has broken down. No on can think beyond food for today. Money is worthless. Cigarettes are used as a kind of lunatic travesty on a currency. If a man goes out to work he shops around to find the business that serves the best hot meal. The final pay-off is the situation reported from the Ruhr where the miners are fed at the pits so that they will not be able to take the food home to their families.
“Well, the Germans are to blame. Let them pay for it. It’s their fault,” you say. The trouble is that starving the Germans and throwing them out of their homes is only producing more areas of famine and collapse.
Does this still apply today?
The skeptical French press
One section of the population of Europe looked to us for salvation and another looked to the Soviet Union. Wherever the people have endured either the American armies or the Russian armies both hopes have been bitterly disappointed. The British have won a slightly better reputation. The state of mind in Vienna is interesting because there the part of the population that was not actively Nazi was about equally divided. The wealthier classes looked to America, the workers to the Soviet Union.
The Russians came first. The Viennese tell you of the savagery of the Russian armies. They came like the ancient Mongol hordes out of the steppes, with the flimsiest supply. The people in the working-class districts had felt that when the Russians came that they at least would be spared. But not at all. In the working-class districts the tropes were allowed to rape and murder and loot at will. When victims complained, the Russians answered, “You are too well off to be workers. You are bourgeoisie.”
Does this still apply today?
The skeptical French press
When Americans looted they took cameras and valuables but when the Russians looted they took everything. And they raped and killed. From the eastern frontiers a tide of refugees is seeping across Europe bringing a nightmare tale of helpless populations trampled underfoot. When the British and American came the Viennese felt that at last they were in the hands of civilized people. But instead of coming in with a bold plan of relief and reconstruction we came in full of evasions and apologies.
Does this still apply today?
U.S. administration a poor third
We know now the tragic results of the ineptitudes of the Peace of Versailles. The European system it set up was Utopia compared to the present tangle of snarling misery. The Russians at least are carrying out a logical plan for extending their system of control at whatever cost. The British show signs of recovering their good sense and their innate human decency. All we have brought to Europe so far is confusion backed up by a drumhead regime of military courts. We have swept away Hitlerism, but a great many Europeans feel that the cure has been worse than the disease.
The taste of victory had gone sour in the mouth of every thoughtful American I met. Thoughtful men can’t help remembering that this is a period in history when every political crime and every frivolous mistake in statesmanship has been paid for by the death of innocent people. The Germans built the Stalags; the Nazis are behind barbed wire now, but who will be next? Whenever you sit eating a good meal in the midst of a starving city in a handsome house requisitioned from some German, you find yourself wondering how it would feel to have a conqueror drinking out of your glasses. When you hear the tales of the brutalizing of women from the eastern frontier you think with a shudder of of those you love and cherish at home.
Does this still apply today?
U.S. administration a poor third
That we are one world is unfortunately a brutal truth. Punishing the German people indiscriminately for the sins of their leader may be justice, but it is not helping to restore the rule of civilization. The terrible lesson of the events of this year of victory is that what is happening to the bulk of Europe today can happen to American tomorrow.
In America we are still rich, we are still free to move from place to place and to talk to our friends without fear of the secret police. The time has come, for our own future security, to give the best we have to the world instead of the worst. So far as Europe is concerned, American leadership up to now has been obsessed with a fear of our own virtues. Winston Churchill expressed this state of mind brilliantly in a speech to his own people which applies even more accurately to the people of the U.S. “You must be prepared,” he warned them, “for further efforts of mind and body and further sacrifices to great causes, if you are not to fall back into the rut if inertia, the confusion of aim and the craven fear of being great.”
Does this still apply today?
Greeting fellow liberals,
We have won. Our victory march started in November 2004 with the questionable re-election of Preznit (I’ll never call him President) Bush. Here in Washington State when wingnuts should have celebrating, they were instead tearing their hair out when Christine Gregoire edged out the BIAW creature Dino Rossi. The wingnuts fought back hard with the reality-challenged hysterical ravings of Sharansky, his phony “orange” revolution and the election contest.
After judge-shopping and spending over two million dollars the wingnut-dominated Republicans lost big time. DISMISSED WITH PREJUDICE!
It was just the beginning. The wingnuts then tried to get revenge with I-912. Even most Dems and liberals thought they’d win that one. The people, sick and tired of squabbling and obstructionism on road construction that started with that greedy, self-promoting prick Eyman voted NO! These wingnuts tried to put up another BIAW creature, David Irons Jr., to oust Ron Sims. He was a woman abuser and a serial liar. Goldy exposed this poor excuse for a leader. The wingnuts lost again!
Now here it is 2006. We have organized, donated and doorbelled. We have taken back Congress and advanced our majority in the State Legislature. We have won! I’ll say it again. We have won!
However, the victory is also bittersweet. Some good people like Ned Lamont didn’t prevail. Darcy Burner may not pull through. That one is especially close to home and will hurt if it doesn’t go our way.
Back in 2004, I knew the wingnuts were corrupt and completely wrong. I used to hang out at (un)SP and its predecessor Shark Blog to bug the righties. Sharansky banned me once. It was over there that I discovered HA.org and I’ve been here ever since. I have skewered every wingnut I could with their lies, corruption and hypocrisy. It’s been fun most of the time but it’s also been tiring. So on a high note I announce my retirement from HA.org.
I’m starting a blog of my own focused on lifestyle. It will be about 80 percent focused on living the good life, about 10 percent on something or another and only 10 percent on politics. The political commentary will be strictly limited to discussion of issues. I’ll come back here to HA.org under a new handle with a link to my blog to weigh in on issues. It won’t be very often.
It’s been a great pleasure hanging out here. Some special thanks are due to Goldy. May your winning streak continue. More thanks to the inimitable Roger Rabbit. Your commentary has had me in stitches. Thank you. Some relative newcomers like rhp, Daddy Love and Proud Leftist have written excellent commentary. Thank you. Carl and Teresa Grossman have skewered the odious JCH and ProudAss – some of the most entertaining takedowns I’ve seen. Thank you so much. There are many more who have weighed in over the years. Thank you all.
We’ve come a long way to taking our country back. Now we have to keep what we’ve won and advance against the most corrupt regime in our memory. We still have more work to do to keep our country and clean up the godawful mess the right has made.
So on a high note I announce my retirement from HA.org.
Go forth. Do well, and do good.
“…proud ‘neath heated brow!” Bob Dylan
There is a person named “klake” who sounds like he’s about 17 but claims to have several advanced college degrees and his personal mission seems to be to vanquish Headless Lucy in debate. His absolute obtuseness to anything but the hard core reactionary right- wing view is astounding. If a surgeon chopped his leg off by mistake he’d come out of anesthesia arguing in favor of a 250,000 dollar cap on punitive damages.
“Crimson flames tied through my ears
Rolling high and mighty traps.
Countless fires on flaming roads
Using ideas as my maps.
We’ll meet on edges soon said I
Proud ‘neath heated brow.
Ah! but I was so much older then
I’m younger than that now!”
Bob Dylan, “Younger Than Yesterday”
I hope I got the words right. I got them by listening to the Byrds version. The Byrds still sound good. They have some of the best Dylan interpretations that have been done.
“Outposts of Tyranny”
“…Stripped of social coloring and modern legal restraints, the arrangement for work in modern America resembles the same terms that functioned during feudalism. But this is more than an echo from distant times. The employment system is the defining structure for maintaining a still dominant hierarchy among citizens, those with stunted rights and those with expansive power over others.”
“Where did citizens learn the resignation and cynicism that leads them to withdraw as active citizens? They learned it at the office; they learned it on the shop floor. The real-life education in who has the power and who doesn’t creates a formidible barrier to ever establishing an authentic democracy in which Americans are genuinely represented and engaged. The socialization of powerlessness is probably far more damaging to politics than the special-interest campaign money or the emptiness of televison advertising.” William Greider from, “The Soul of Capitalism”
Maybe we should tend to our own garden before we attempt to tend to the rest of the world’s. What was it that that esteemed Repuplican president, Dwight Eisenhower, warned us against? He warned in his farewell to the nation address,in substance,to
beware the military-industrial complex!
I Hate Ronald Reagan
Corporate taxes under Reagan and now GWB have reached their lowest point since 1929. This fact alone should give any reasonable person a good idea where things are headed in this country and the world. Corporations, who DO use water, electricity, garbage collection services and all the other things provided by government through taxes, are now taxed at a lower rate than individuals are. They also receive special discounts on the resources that they use. This trend in America, for individual citizens to pay for the services used and the collateral environmental damage caused by corporations through their payroll taxes, began in the administration of Ronald Reagan. The now discredited theory used to describe this situation was aptly called the “Trickle Down Theory.” We were promised a trickle and we did not get even that. Real wages, after adjustment for inflation, fell in the Reagan years as they have in both Bush administrations. -(1)-
Labor was also hard hit during the Reagan administration
After Reagan fired all the air traffic controllers for striking for better working conditions and hired permanent replacements, corporate employers followed suit, thereby, for all intents and purposes, emasculating the Labor movement and turning the clock back on the decades of progress made for the American working man. Far from being upset by these developments the majority of voters inexplicably were enthused by them.-(2)-
So, during the Reagan years taxes were lowered on the upper 1% of the income tier, thereby increasing their wealth tremendously, and those in the lower income tiers received meaningless decreases accompanied by a DOUBLING of withholding on their Social Security. In addition, the Reagan administration could spend this “surplus” on whatever they chose. And they did– every cent of it– with no accountability to anyone but themselves. One of the things that they spent the money on was right wing death squads south of the border. They also spent the money that they acquired illegally through arms sales to the Iranians on similar projects south of the border. This was the famous Iran-Contra scandal that many of Reagan’s minions were convicted of master- minding and participating in. Reagan, of course, alleged that he had no memory of these dealings-(3)-, hence his other popular moniker: “The Great Forgetter”, a name that would prove to be ironically apropos in the ensuing years.
Reagan,as well as George W. Bush, ostensibly believe in smaller government, a strong military, lower taxes, and a balanced budget. However, both presidents have lowered taxes for the rich, increased military spending, and almost paradoxically created larger government and crippling budget deficits.-(4)- which they then leave for their successors to deal with. My belief is that these presidents did and do believe in a weak and small government and concurrent unanswerable and vast power in “private” multi-national corporations. The strategy now is to weaken our government,which is the only force powerful enough to control the corporations, by deliberately bankrupting it. There is no other reasonable explanation for their behavior.
This is why I hate Ronald Reagan.
Knowing these things, would you consider Reagan to have been a patriot, a knowing traitor, or an unwitting dupe of huge corporate interests? This fracturing of governmental power is a worldwide phenomenon and the way it’s being done is similar in many respects for the different countries involved. The power vacuum is, of course, being taken up by huge multi-national corporations. This is what is being referred to by scholars who know as “the New Feudalism.” But that is a topic for a different post.
-1- Mark Weisbrot,”Ronald Reagan’s Legacy”, Knight-Ridder,6-7-2002.
-2- Randy Schweitz, NATCA press release, 1-28-1997.
-3- P. Kunhardt, Jr., The American Presidency (NY, Riverhead Books,
1999), pp. 292-301.
-4- Joe Strupp, “Ronald Reagan: still the teflon president”, in Editor and
Publisher, 6-8-2004.
“burner is toast – need to concede – quit stringing out the cordial process”
Commentby Jack— 11/11/06@ 9:54 am
Let me get this straight. With 188,000 votes left to count in King and Pierce Counties and only approx 3100 votes separating them, you think Ms. Burner should concede. (Source: http://vote.wa.gov/elections/general/)
Now, if you want to say that King and Pierce Counties should get their acts together and finish the counting, I will certainly agree with you. This is taking way too long. (Darn those tight-fisted fiscally responsible Democrats for not allowing a bunch of overtime and not hiring and training a bunch of temporary workers.)
If you somehow think Ms. Burner is being rude by insisting that the vote counting be at least reasonably close to complete before conceding, then I would have to think you must be some sort of partisan troll just making a cheap shot.
Of course, the Republicans would like Ms. Burner to concede. That way, even if the vote turned in her favor they would still have something to complain about. We’d be hearing about how she “conceded” and then took office anyway on the entirely flimsy argument that the people elected her.
No, I think we’ll just wait to see what the voters in her district have said. Nobody is taking office until January anyway, so we’ve got time to finish the count.
Lucy that is why I would like to see the nationalization of all big industry were they would be turned it over to the workers and the workers would elect the best person to be in charge of them . Businesses are really the last remnants of the feudal system. I would like to Democratize Business.
And the market it pretty much a giant shell game. If you ever listen to ch 9 Lear news hour talk about all the cooked things going on there it puts the Mafia to shame.
(phalangefirst posted this in an earlier thread, so I thought I’d answer it here.)
Dear Moonbats: Thanks for your support, now shut up about impeaching Bush! We cut a deal with Bush you suckers, now go away until we need you again.
Best Wishes, Nancy Pelosi
Commentby phalangefirst— 11/10/06@ 6:00 pm
– The Deal With Bush –
1. President Bush may say or propose anything he likes, but may not implement any of it.
2. President Bush is allowed to speak to the public on whatever topics he or his handlers wish to advance, but nobody is required to listen.
3. President Bush may propose any candidate for any appointive position, but the Congress is not required to confirm said candidate, and in cases where said candidate is out of what the Democratic majority considers “mainstream”, the Congress is not required to even hold hearings to consider said candidate.
4. President Bush is permitted to rant, rave, complain and curse to his subordinates in any way he wishes, but if he expects to get any cooperation whatsoever from the Congress of the United States, he’d better be very polite in his requests.
5. President Bush’s signing statements are confined to “Approved as written”, “I and my offices will fully comply with the will of the American people as stated by their elected Representatives”, and “Yes sir, yes sir, three bags full.” Alternatively, he may simply sign the bill without further comment.
(Yes, I think we can live with that, especially as we probably don’t have the votes in the Senate to convict, and at least one of the major political parties sees that it would be harmful to the country to pursue an impeachment for primarily political reasons.)
4
burner is toast – need to concede – quit stringing out the cordial process Commentby Jack— 11/11/06@ 9:54 am
Go fuck yourself, Jack. Nobody knows who won until all the ballots are counted.
4 (continued)
Who’s being cordial? Why should ANYONE be cordial, EVER, to a Republican? I repeat, go fuck yourself Jack! Is that cordial enough for you?
5
WA is now MA. We’ll have Democratic Senators and a Democratic statehouse for the next few decades (at least). We’ll have a couple of Republican Reps at times. Commentby TellingTheTruth— 11/11/06@ 10:00 am
Works for me. If you don’t like it, move to Jesusland. You’ll be happier there. We’ll be happier with you there, too.
Looks like the spammers are out in force this morning, specifically including klake.
Hey klake — if you don’t put it in quote marks and provide attribution, it’s plagiarism. We all know you’re too stupid and ignorant to write that stuff yourself. Hell you can’t even read Dick and Jane! But how about following convention when quoting others, okay? Stop stealing intellectual property, it’s theft man, and it’s a crime.
Hi, Roger. Let me take the next half.
“And, like in MA, at times we’ll have an R Governor. But, true conservatives will call this person a RINO, as he (or she) will be socially liberally and pro-business. No true conservative in WA will win a statewide race in any reader of the blog’s lifetime.
Aside from a disagreement about the definition of “true conservative” (Remember, that hero of the right, Gov. R. Reagan, was the fellow that signed the most liberal pro-choice law of its time), I’m pretty happy with that outcome too.
By my understanding, “true conservatives” do not consider it to be any of the government’s business what consenting adults do in the privacy of their homes.
I realize that you and Rev Robertson disagree with me there. Too bad. You lost. You can always move to Idaho. (Can I help you pack? – Let’s see. Where does this go? Did you realize that all your sheets have eye holes?)
I would like to ask for Roger Rabbit to be the judge at Bush and Channeys war crime trials….
Im sure Roger will be a fair and balanced bunny :-)
17
Clueless — Rossi, Vance, their lawyers, and the Pukes were even dumber than you realize! Gregoire’s final margin was 129 votes — memorize this number. Remember the WA State Democrats’ signature drive? to validate ballots cast by eligible voters who either forgot to sign their absentee ballots or whose signatures didn’t match the voter registration cards on file? (People’s signatures do change over time.) The Democrats mobilized 7,000 volunteers statewide who collected about 1,000 signatures of which about 70% were valid. In case you’re wondering why the GOPers didn’t do the same thing, the answer is they did, although they got started late and can’t mobilize the Democrats’ manpower resources, so they collected only 200 signatures. But wait! Let’s say 70% of their signatures were valid (a reasonable assumption), this means they probably had approximately 140 good signatures, and Rossi likely would have won IF THEY HAD TURNED IN THEIR SIGNATURES which they didn’t. So why didn’t they? Because their lawyers were arguing in court that the Democrats’ “signature ballots” shouldn’t be counted, and their lawyers told GOP party officials it would weaken their legal argument and their chances in court if they turned in THEIR signatures. Well they lost in court — and because they didn’t turn in their signatures, they lost the election too. That’s how stupid the Republicans were. After all the handwringing and crying, they have no one to blame for Rossi’s defeat except themselves.
17
“So on a high note I announce my retirement from HA.org.”
We’ll miss you, Clueless. Please leave with this thought in mind. We haven’t defeated these fuckers — not in their minds, at least. Karl Rove thinks this election is just a temporary setback and still has his sights set on a “permanent Republican majority.” They’ll be back more fiercely than ever. The North didn’t win the war at Gettysburg, only a battle, and the war was only half over at that point. We’ve got ’em on the run, but there’s more hard fighting ahead, my friend. I ain’t retiring from HA.org or anything else. The wingnuts still want war, and I’m gonna give ’em “war.” Enjoy your retirement, you’ve earned it, but I still have work to do here.
why do Republicans seam to always do the completely immoral thing . They seam to have no problem breaking the law or bending it as long as they think it will benefit them.
I mean are all Republican Sociopath or what ?
19
“‘klake’ … claims to have several advanced college degrees”
I don’t recall seeing him post that but if he did it’s utterly ludicrous; klake can’t even spell “to.”
“Who’s being cordial? Why should ANYONE be cordial, EVER, to a Republican? “
Commentby Roger Rabbit— 11/11/06@ 11:20 am
Now, now Roger. We can afford to be cordial to the poor, blighted Republicans. After all they lost big time.
Kicking them while they’re down is only a momentary pleasure, and bound to get us talked about. Yes, I realize that they would not refrain for an instant if our positions were reversed, and that they lied, cheated, intimidated and stole every vote they could in order to come out ahead, regardless of the will of the American public.
I realize as well that their leadership is a bunch of worthless, power-hungry monsters that were willing to do anything up to and including condone and aid pedophiles in order to hang onto power.
I also realize that the President that they managed to get elected through deceit and trickery has lied and cheated in order to get our country into a war that has cost thousands of American lives, hundreds of thousands of Iraqi lives and will stain our reputation throughout the world for generations, just so that his friends could steal billions of dollars.
That’s no reason not to be polite to the worthless losers.
22
“Let me get this straight. With 188,000 votes left to count in King and Pierce Counties and only approx 3100 votes separating them, you think Ms. Burner should concede.”
Yep, John, that’s their game — make a premature declaration of “victory” before the votes have been counted, prance around like the anointed winner-elect, then pretend they were robbed if it goes the other way. It’s all designed to brainwash the public into thinking Democrats steal elections when the real crooks are the Republicans.
I repeat, Jack, go fuck yourself.
yes we have only one one battle we are far far away from winning the war. I think that was the biggest mistake the Demercratic atiavist made in the urly 70es after nixion resiened they thought thet the war was over and they went home.
22 (continued)
“Now, if you want to say that King and Pierce Counties should get their acts together and finish the counting, I will certainly agree with you. This is taking way too long.”
I emphatically do not agree with you here, John. Speed is NOT of the essence when counting ballots — accuracy is. There is NO NEED to know who won before the Nov. 27 certification deadline. The pressure for instant results comes from the media, for their selfish reasons, and against the best interests of the rest of us. And this sort of thing plays right into the hands of the rightwing strategists who play the game described above. Until all the votes are counted, NO ONE HAS WON, and the counting takes as long as it takes, period. If we have to wait another week to find out that’s perfectly fine with me.
The Deal With Bush
You left out one thing …
6. From now on, President Bush must obey the Constitution and the laws of the land, and if he doesn’t impeachment is back on the table.
33, 34
I would like to ask for Roger Rabbit to be the judge at Bush and Channeys war crime trials….
Commentby The Socialist— 11/11/06@ 11:30 am
Im sure Roger will be a fair and balanced bunny
Commentby The Socialist— 11/11/06@ 11:32 am
Not really but I’ll take the job …
John it is no wonder people think the Democrats are weak as far as fighting war or protecting them . We have to get rid of this Pollyanna niceties.
We need to be tuff but fair That is why Bush and Channey need to be sent to the huag and tried as war criminals justice must be served so this will never ever ever happen again.
We can not let war criminal live amongst us just because we want to be nice and not offend anyone
“I emphatically do not agree with you here, John. Speed is NOT of the essence when counting ballots – accuracy is.”
Commentby Roger Rabbit— 11/11/06@ 11:50 am
Given my choice between speed and accuracy, I’l have to agree that accuracy is more important. I’ll even agree that there are most likely problems that I have no knowledge of that would tend to slow the vote-counting.
That being said, most of the country has managed to count their votes, even in some very close races. I’m assuming that the absentee ballots are machine readable, so accuracy should not prevent speedy counting.
If it takes this long given modern equipment, then we have a problem that needs to be addressed. We aren’t in the 1890s or even the 1950s, and neither King nor Pierce counties are really that large. This really is taking longer than it should.
But again, if I must choose between accuracy and speed, accuracy wins.
I think I herd that msmbc had a poll up asking if bush should be impeached and it was running at 80% yes so the democrats may have no choice but to impeach him if he has done 1/2 the thing wrong we think he has.
I mean give me a break you impeached Clinton for having an affair. This idiot has attacked a country for no reason and killed all most 3,000 american solders and 650,000 Iraq’s
And that is just the beging of his crimes agiens humanity
John this is the first year most of the state is voting on absentee ballets I think that is probily why it is taking so long .
37
why do Republicans seam to always do the completely immoral thing . They seam to have no problem breaking the law or bending it as long as they think it will benefit them. I mean are all Republican Sociopath or what ? Commentby The Socialist— 11/11/06@ 11:40 am
The answer is very simple, Sosh. Back in 1988, Newt Gingrich exhorted his fellow Republicans,
“ … this is a civil war, that … has to be fought with the scale and duration and savagery that is only true of civil wars. While we are lucky in this country that our civil wars are fought at the ballot box, not on the battlefields, nonetheless it is a civil war.”
This speech is historically significant because Republicans everywhere took it to heart, and it became the defining meme of their subsequent behavior; and the “war” rhetoric is not merely a colorful metaphor. It was, in fact, a declaration of civil war against Democrats and liberals which meant, “throw the rules out the window, and win by any means at our disposal.”
When conservatives thus put themselves on a “war footing” against their political rivals, American politics ceased to be a competition. In their minds, the “state of war” existing between conservatives and their opponents justifies everything they’ve done since then — all the lying, cheating, election stealing, dirty tricks, smear campaigns, etc. are merely necessary tactics against an “evil enemy” in a “war.” This “war” mentality in the minds of the Republican leadership and masses transformed American politics into raw combat without the restraining influences of ethics, morals, or law. But conservatives don’t think of themselves as the immoral lawless ruffians they actually are; they cast themselves in the mold of the Crusaders, i.e., valiant knights riding gallantly forth to do God’s work in slaying the dragon of liberalism and liberating the land from false ideologies and religions, storming castles and ridding the land of wizards and witches, their armor shining and their swords flashing in the sun.
Sheesh. They’re nothing but common criminals.
re 23: All I’m askin’ is that you let me keep my own toothbrush.
If they really want “civil war,” they should quit playing “war,” break out the guns and play some REAL civil war. I don’t want that, but if these pansies think they’re man enough to play this game with hot lead, I’ll exercise my lawful right of self-defense!
As I’ve been saying all along, liberals must arm!
John it is no wonder people think the Democrats are weak as far as fighting war or protecting them . We have to get rid of this Pollyanna niceties.
We need to be tuff but fair That is why Bush and Channey need to be sent to the huag and tried as war criminals justice must be served so this will never ever ever happen again.
We can not let war criminal live amongst us just because we want to be nice and not offend anyone
Commentby The Socialist— 11/11/06@ 11:55 am
A couple of observations.
First, a large percentage of the country still supports the President. Many of these folks would see any attempt to impeach him as a strictly partisan move in response to the (strictly partisan) impeachment of President Clinton.
Next, it would be an exercise in futility. The votes simply are not there in the Senate for a conviction.
Lastly, it would reinforce what is already a really terrible precedent, that the party in power in the Congress can impeach a sitting President for partisan disagreements.
I think we’ll just have to settle for serious, honest, thorough investigations leading to possible indictments of lower-level functionaries in situations where there is absolutely no doubt that they abused their official position, while keeping the President from implementing anything that would harm us further.
Essentially, he’s already toast, and we don’t have the clout to do much more to him. Failing to convict on an impeachment would make us look weak. Boxing him in and taking away his closest aids will make him look weak.
39
“Now, now Roger. We can afford to be cordial to the poor, blighted Republicans. After all they lost big time.”
I offered them peace on very reasonable terms, and they didn’t want it. So be it.
39 (continued)
That’s no reason not to be polite to the worthless losers. Commentby John Barelli— 11/11/06@ 11:43 am
See #42, to wit:
I repeat, Jack, go fuck yourself. Commentby Roger Rabbit— 11/11/06@ 11:46 am
48
“most of the country has managed to count their votes”
That’s because 80% of the other jurisdictions have gone to touch-screen voting machines, mostly without paper trails.
We need to reach across the aisle, but never forget to wear a joy buzzer OR lift our arms at the last moment and make an exaggerated hair-smoothing gesture. They are so stupid they will fall for it every time.
Think of Nancy Pelosi as Lucy and Bush as Charlie Brown speeding toward the football.
John I am not talking about impeaching him for partisan reasons like the republicans did Clinton After the investigations are over and if they leaded to Bush which I am sure they will. I think the whole Country will be behind impeaching Bush. It would take me all day to list the crimes I think he is guilty of and I am sure you are aware of them any ways. I mean just think if the investigations even show that bush is guilty of 1/3 of what I think he is guilty of he should not only be impeached but he should be hung as a traitor to the country. And I think the whole country would be behind that and I think if the Democrats do not do the constitionel duty that will hurt them way more. If this asshole has done what we think he has done. Justice will have to be done. And this is not a partisan hack job like the republicans did this would be justice. There is a difference and I no the people under stand the difference and will be behind it. People are very upset about Iraq that is why you Democrats won. And you have to make this right with people and make sure this never happens again.
There’s maybe 60K votes left in the 8th CD to count (not all the 188K left in King and Pierce are from the 8th CD), which means Darcy has to win them 33K/27K.
Now, maybe she’ll pull out 55% of the remaining votes, but for all the handwaving I’m seeing about how she’s going to start picking up votes Real Soon Now™, it’s not happened yet.
I think she’s done (because I think the margin between her and Smilin’ Sheriff Dave needed to start narrowing already for her to eke one out on what’s left to count, and it hasn’t), but it’s certainly up to her to decide when to concede. Raising money for a recount when she’s well outside the margin for one strikes me as a bit less than classy, though, and you notice ex-WSDC head Paul Berendt saying between the lines she needs to think about this.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.c.....ct10m.html
Before y’all start flaming me, look at my record back in the primary (where I told you we’d pick up some in the State Senate and House, and pretty much own the Eastside) and on Goldmark (where I thought it was a Hail Mary). I’m as partisan as the rest of you, but at some point, you have to detach your feelings and look at reality. These are elections. You win some, you lose some.
Oh, and Klake, you’re an idiot (even though that should go without saying). West Germany was in decent shape 3-4 years after the end of WWII. Iraq, not so much.
what is it with republicans and counting the votes they just can’t seam to handily counting all the votes in an election.
Commentby The Socialist— 11/11/06@ 12:26 pm
“After the investigations are over and if they leaded to Bush which I am sure they will. I think the whole Country will be behind impeaching Bush.”
Assuming that we reach that point through completely fair and open investigations, then my objections will be moot, and I’ll agree with you.
Wingnuts like phalangefirst and pravda2006 are crowing that somehow we liberals have been fooled by Ms. Pelosi because she isn’t publicly calling for impeachment procedings to commence immediately upon swearing in the next Congress.
Instead, careful, open and honest investigations of any number of issues will be undertaken, and only after those investigations are complete will we consider what action is appropriate based upon the findings.
Until and unless there is hard, indesputable evidence that convinces the vast majority of the American public that an impeachment is both appropriate and necessary, I will continue to preach restraint.
But… being that I am not a wingnut, my opinion can change based on additional information and evidence. I realize that this is what the far-right calls “flip-flopping”, but I’ve learned to live with that.
Hey, Headless Lucy –
I’m not a huge Dylan fan, but I thought that song was called “My Back Pages.” Any real Dylan fans out there?
“Somewhere along the line in the last few months, the Democrats got some spine and got the courage to say out loud what they had been saying behind closed doors, which is that the president’s national security policy has been an utter failure, has made us less safe, and that Iraq is Exhibit A for that failure,” she said after Tuesday’s vote.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/.....Lease.html
the got some spine part is what people want john. That is why I left the Demercratic party after 04 and Kerrys breaking his promise to us to count every vote.
I mean are all Republican Sociopath or what ?
Yes.
This has been the HA edition of “Simple Answers to Simple Questions.”
65#
I think that is what most people want john well sead.
If after the investgation it may have to be done.
I agrea with you whole heartedley
Wow – Rush needs to check out the spam on this comment thread! Right up his alley!
why has rush not been fired yet. I mean what does he have to do muder someone before they would think about fireing him.
I think the anser is probibly yes :-(
Commentby The Socialist— 11/11/06@ 12:50 pm
No argument, but there is a difference between showing some spine and rushing to judgement.
I’m pretty happy with Ms. Pelosi’s actions so far. Restraint does not equate to spinelessness, and I think that at least some of the Republicans would like for us to rush in wildly.
They told many of their followers that we would immediately rush to impeach the President, Vice President and any other Republican we could find, regardless of the facts of the situation.
Careful, open and honest investigation of the facts, and then decisions based upon those facts. Where there is any reasonable doubt as to the facts of the situation, we give the benefit of that doubt to the people being investigated.
Just because the Republicans ran rough-shod over the Constitution does not mean that we should, regardless of the purity of our motives.
i gota go make some freanch toast and scrambled eggs i’ll BBL
Reichart will no doubt survive Darcy, but he’ll be a total nonentity and nonplayer for the next two years in the new congress. And the Democrats will come at him again, harder and smarter.
Has anybody ever noticed that the “godless” liberal Democrats act more like Jesus than the God Fearin’ right wing Christian Republicans ever do?
Younger than Yesterday is the Byrds’ album that I got the words to Dylan’s My Back Pages. Thanks for the correction.You’re a real Sweetheart of the Rodeo and I hope you find your chestnut mare in the Blue Canadian Rockies.
Gotta go now — “to dance beneath the diamond sky with one hand waving free, sillouetted by the sea….” R. Zimmerman
http://www.dailykos.com/
Look how easily the media manipulates everyone’s perceptions, including our own. An hour of vote tabulation reveals a stunning fact: Democrats won the popular vote for the Senate by an overwhelming 11.6% margin – 55%/42.4%. “Bipartisanship” and “compromise” are today’s buzzwords, when the phrase on everybody’s lips should be “mandate for dramatic change” – especially in Iraq.
re 73: And don’t forget it.
Farewell For The Clueless. Go forth and enjoy having a life. Something the wingnut trolls can only dream of.
John B @ 37 or thereabouts modulo spam deletions
Why be cordial? Never kick a man unless he’s down. That’s the way they do it.
Thank you, For The Clueless. Always a pleasure to read you posts, both thoughtful and passionate.
Socialist @ 68 or thereabouts modulo spam deletions
Bring me some o’ that French toast (the hell with Freedom toast) and scrambled eggs while you’re out. I’ll cook us up some sausage and squeeze some orange juice. I love winter when the oranges start getting cheap.
John B, you may be too decent for me. When I made my comment about Speaker Pelosi’s possible ascension to the White House, I was only dramatically illustrating a portion of our Constitution, not advocating any action. I’m perfectly happy to proceed slowly and with caution, to serve the broad middle. Although many are anxious for rapid, if not direct action and change. Many of the crossover voters were moved by strong emotion, probably revulsion.
However, I think we agree that this is a nation of laws, and should proceen as such.
57
There’s maybe 60K votes left in the 8th CD to count (not all the 188K left in King and Pierce are from the 8th CD), which means Darcy has to win them 33K/27K. Now, maybe she’ll pull out 55% of the remaining votes, but … I think she’s done …. Raising money for a recount when she’s well outside the margin for one strikes me as a bit less than classy ….
http://seattletimes.nwsource.c.....thdistrict 10m.html Commentby eponymous coward— 11/11/06@ 12:27 pm
I subjectively think she’s done, too. Buuuuut … as I pointed out in a previous thread, there’s no cause-and-effect relationship between counted and uncounted ballots. The fact 50.9% of the counted votes are for Reichert, doesn’t mean the remaining ballots will go that way. Absolutely no predictive value, none. The uncounted ballots could be anything. The other thing is I’m simply unwilling to play by wingnut rules — i.e., declare victory when their candidate goes into the lead and then pretend they were robbed if it goes the other way in the late count.
On your other point, it’s my understanding that Burner is NOT raising money for a recount and the media retracted this story as having been published in error.
63
I mean are all Republican Sociopath or what ? Yes. This has been the HA edition of “Simple Answers to Simple Questions.” Commentby Tlazolteotl— 11/11/06@ 12:53 pm
In this case, the simple answer happens to be the correct answer.
63 (continued)
Commentby Tlazolteotl— 11/11/06@ 12:53 pm
Who the hell are you? Are you new here? Let me acquaint you with the informal HA posting rules:
1. This is a liberal blog.
2. Anyone can post here.
3. There is no censorship.
4. As liberals, our job is to verbally kick the living shit out of unpatriotic, America-hating, fascist trollfucks.
5. No mercy for wingnuts.
6. Our terms are unconditional surrender.
7. klake is a nazi.
Any questions?
70
Has anybody ever noticed that the “godless” liberal Democrats act more like Jesus than the God Fearin’ right wing Christian Republicans ever do? Commentby treasonous pickle— 11/11/06@ 1:46 pm
Yeah, we notice that every day.
73
Democrats won the popular vote for the Senate by an overwhelming 11.6% margin – 55%/42.4%. Commentby headless lucy— 11/11/06@ 2:09 pm
Now that IS interesting — thanks for pointing it out. And it points out something else … we don’t live in a democracy. If voters prefer Democrats to Republicans by 55% to 42%, why do Democrats have only 51 seats in the Senate and Republicans have 49 seats? Seems to me they’re hogging more than their fair share. I think they should voluntarily relinquish 7 of their seats — give 4 to Democrats, and 3 to independents. That’s only fair.
The fact 50.9% of the counted votes are for Reichert, doesn’t mean the remaining ballots will go that way. Absolutely no predictive value, none. The uncounted ballots could be anything.
True. And just because the sun rose in the east this morning doesn’t mean it will tomorrow, if you really want to get all David Hume. ;)
But the odds that this will get reversed depend on a LOT of coinflips going Darcy’s way, basically, because with 75% of the vote counted, the last 25% has to be VERY different than the first 75%. It well could be…but I suspect some chunk of the provisional ballots come from flooded E King County…which is probably the most R part of King County (the 5th LD). I dunno if they are going to be quite the wave of pro-Darcy votes we’d like. There also isn’t the kind of college campus you’d like (like UW).
I suspect Monday’s counts will tell us everything we need to know.
79
I think we agree that this is a nation of laws, and should proceen as such. Commentby Tree Frog Farmer— 11/11/06@ 2:23 pm
Well, that’s the point, isn’t it? If Bush has broken laws, he should be outta there. But we gotta let the process run its course.
From the standpoint of political tactics, we’re better off to leave him in there. I’m convinced we’ve seen only the tip of the iceberg where scandals are concerned, and after the lid comes off the GOP will go into the ’08 election looking even worse than they do now — very much worse. That can only help our side. I pointed out in a previous thread that Democrats are well positioned to pick up another 4 or 5 Senate seats in ’08 and if the forthcoming investigations reveal, as I believe they will, even worse GOP maledictions then it could be more than that. And if the public is shocked by revelation of what I’m convinced has gone on behind the scenes, we could expand our majority in the House by quite a bit and the presidential contest could turn into “anybody but a Republican.” I’d rather be us than them.
I actually think understating the power of what went on is going to HELP the Democrats in Congress. The expectations are fairly low and the agenda is actually pretty popular if you look at pollinig data. That should help the moderates and independents feel that their concerns are being dealt with… and to be blunt, the inside baseball stuff that energizes us partisans is completely irrelevant to a lot of independents and moderates. They don’t WANT “impeach the bastard”; they want their health care costs to stabilize, their wages to quit stagnating; they want us out of Iraq. If the Congress can address their concerns and quit with the freakshow of Terry Schiavos, Mark Foley and so on, this is a durable majority and a great place to start a run at the Presidency in ’08.
Oh, and Klake, you’re an idiot (even though that should go without saying). West Germany was in decent shape 3-4 years after the end of WWII. Iraq, not so much.
Commentby eponymous coward— 11/11/06@ 12:29 pm
Yes Mr. Coward you were there after the World War II and you just returned from Iraq. My Uncle was a mole in East Germany and he said you are full of shit. Europe was just many piles of rubble unlike Iraq.
Was you aunt a shrew?
Not bad Roger for an old bunny, but for you folks that needs an English version.
“The Posse Comitatus Act, passed in 1878, prohibits the military from enforcing civil criminal law within the United States. But recent congressional acts granting exceptions to Posse Comitatus have altered the manner in which the armed forces may assist law enforcement. Active-duty soldiers can be employed to respond to a domestic crisis when a state, usually through its governor, requests a presidential declaration of a state of emergency. Once a state of emergency is declared, military forces are under the direction of the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA). The Robert T. Stafford Disaster Relief Act of 1984, as amended in 1988 (42 US Code Section 5121 et seq.), commonly referred to as the Stafford Act, is the authority under which such assistance is provided.”
http://tinyurl.com/ybqwhp
Commentby Roger Rabbit— 11/11/06@ 12:36 am
The Posse Comitatus Act is a United States federal law (18 U.S.C. § 1385) passed in 1878 after the end of Reconstruction. The Act was intended to prohibit Federal troops from supervising elections in former Confederate states. It generally prohibits Federal military personnel and units of the United States National Guard under Federal authority from acting in a law enforcement capacity within the United States, except where expressly authorized by the Constitution or Congress. The Posse Comitatus Act and the Insurrection Act substantially limit the powers of the Federal government to use the military for law enforcement.
The original act referred only to the United States Army. The Air Force was added in 1956, and the Navy and the Marine Corps have been included by a regulation of the Department of Defense. This law is often mentioned when it appears that the Department of Defense is interfering in domestic disturbances.
There are a number of situations in which the Act does not apply. These include:
National Guard units while under the authority of the governor of a state;
Troops when used pursuant to the Federal authority to quell domestic violence as was the case during the 1992 Los Angeles riots;
Troops used under the order of the President of the United States pursuant to the Insurrection Act
Under 18 U.S.C. § 831, the Attorney General may request that the Secretary of Defense provide emergency assistance if civilian law enforcement is inadequate to address certain types of threat involving the release of nuclear materials, such as potential use of a Nuclear or Radiological weapon. Such assistance may be by any personnel under the authority of the Department of Defense, provided such assistance does not adversely affect U.S. military preparedness.
TITLE 6 CHAPTER 1 SUBCHAPTER VIII Part H Sec. 466. Congress finds the following:
1. Section 1385 of title 18 (commonly known as the Posse Comitatus Act) prohibits the use of the Armed Forces as a Posse comitatus to execute the laws except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress.
2. Enacted in 1878, the Posse Comitatus Act was expressly intended to prevent United States Marshals, on their own initiative, from calling on the Army for assistance in enforcing Federal law.
3. Some believe the Posse Comitatus Act has served the Nation well in limiting the use of the Armed Forces to enforce the law. Whether this is a good thing or not is subject to debate.
4. The Posse Comitatus Act was not intended to be a complete barrier to the use of the Armed Forces for a range of domestic purposes, including law enforcement functions, when the use of the Armed Forces is authorized by Act of Congress or the President determines that the use of the Armed Forces is required to fulfill the President’s obligations under the Constitution provide for the common defense or to respond promptly to insurrection, or other serious emergency.
5. Existing laws, including Title 10, Chapter 15 (commonly known as The Insurrection Act), and The Robert T. Stafford Disaster Relief and Emergency Assistance Act (Title 42, Chapter 68), grant the President broad powers that may be invoked in the event of domestic emergencies, including an attack against the Nation using weapons of mass destruction, and these laws specifically authorize the President to use the Armed Forces to help restore public order.
6. The Posse Comitatus Act could be replaced, nullified or modified by a simple act of Congress.
92
Nice cut-and-paste job, klake. Do you have any idea what the statutory language means? I doubt it. Hire Richard Pope to explain it to you. I’m sure his rates are very reasonable right now. He needs work.
I heard Goldy was awol cuz he had to go fudge some provisional ballots. Only has to scratch in a few thousand.
Feds are watching this time, so layoff the tomfoolery
Bush at 31% approval.
He’ll be no trouble.
Democrats won the popular vote for the Senate by an overwhelming 11.6% margin – 55%/42.4%. Can you say “Mandate for change?” How about “political capital?”
96
I heard Goldy was awol cuz he had to go fudge some provisional ballots. Only has to scratch in a few thousand. Feds are watching this time, so layoff the tomfoolery Commentby righton— 11/11/06@ 4:46 pm
Same old wingnut bullshit. So yaaaawn.
SONICS BOOSTERS SEEK NEW TILL TO TAP
The Post-Intelligencer reports,
“The influential Washington Restaurant Association said it’s willing to support an extension of a King County food and beverage tax that would generate roughly $60 million for a new Sonics arena. … Trent House, the association’s government affairs director, told the Seattle P-I(,) ‘We are more than willing to help the new owners.’
“A representative for Hertz and Avis also told the P-I the rental car giants are open to keeping a 1 percent rental car tax in place to help fund a new Sonics arena.”
http://tinyurl.com/yju2q2
Roger Rabbit Commentary: Of course they’re willing to help the Sonics — with other people’s money. THEY don’t pay these taxes; their customers do. Betcha these people are REPUBLICANS. Freeloading comes naturally to them.
Reichert Extends his lead!
Roger,
I’ve been lurking for awhile, but don’t post too often because of the amount of trollfoolery that’s usually present…funny how that’s died down in the past few days.
Anyway, I agree that Dems need, most of all, to show the people that the adults are back in charge. So…do the economically populist things like raising the minimum wage and giving Medicare ability to directly negotiate drug prices, fixing the AMT, etc. People are also asking for oversight, so let the investigations begin, subpoena if necessary, and impeach if there is enough to get the majority of people behind it. As much as I would like to see it personally, it must be a transparent process and cannot look like “revenge of the Clenis.”
They could also always turn over anything they get on Cheney, Abu Gonzales, Rummy, Woo, and the other architects of the torture policy to the International Court and rely on them to charge the traitors with War Crimes. Though I’m sure they’ve shredded most of the evidence already.
103
Means nothing. The last 10,000 ballots could be 100% for Burner, for all you or I know. We’ll know who won when all the votes are counted, and not before.
Look how easily the media manipulates everyone’s perceptions, including our own. An hour of vote tabulation reveals a stunning fact: Democrats won the popular vote for the Senate by an overwhelming 11.6% margin – 55%/42.4%. “Bipartisanship” and “compromise” are today’s buzzwords, when the phrase on everybody’s lips should be “mandate for dramatic change” – especially in Iraq.
Commentby headless lucy— 11/11/06@ 2:09 pm
“Bipartisanship” can mean a couple of different things. Yes, it can (but should not) mean giving up our core beliefs and compromising on important issues of policy.
It can also, however, mean taking the time to listen to the honest and honorable people left in the Republican party (and I’m sure that Speaker Pelosi will have a pretty good idea of which folks on the other side of the eisle are honest and honorable), then working to find ways to address their concerns.
A good example of this is in the area of elections. We want to ensure that voting machines are designed to be difficult to tamper with and that their is a verifiable paper trail to discourage any electronic “fixing” of the vote.
While I tend to agree with Roger Rabbit that the issue of voter identification is a red herring, being used by some on the right to implement procedures that look suspiciously like poll taxes, I also think that some on the right have honest concerns, and that there are ways we could address those concerns without disenfranchising legal voters.
Honest Republicans will welcome the opportunity to address the issues that, for whatever reasons, their constituents have told them are important, and since we control the Congress, we can make sure those issues are addressed in a way that does not have a hidden agenda attached.
That is bipartisanship as we should practice it. The added benefit is that those Republicans that are honest and honorable will be able to demonstrate that they are still effective, while the neo-cons with hidden agendas will find themselves left out in the cold.
Today’s Letters to the Editor Follies
Marilyn Probst of Seattle wrote to the P-I:
“The Republicans took a beating at the polls. However, unlike with the Democrats when they lose elections, there will be no riots in the streets or crying over spilled milk.”
Roger Rabbit Commentary: Let’s review. Who was the big fucking crybaby after losing the 2004 governor’s election? Who rioted in the streets demanding a “revote” when the state constitution and election laws make no provision for such a thing? What planet are you getting your news from, dearie? Not this one. Miz Probst continues:
“You will see Republicans working with the Democrats in trying to keep this nation safe, solve domestic and foreign challenges and bringing unity to this nation.”
Roger Rabbit Commentary: Want to lay money on that, cupcake? If your answer is yes, said funds must be deposited to escrow, given our past experience with Republicans not paying their gambling debts.
“Unlike the Democrats, the Republicans will take the high road and act in a mature fashion and lend their expertise and support while working with Democrats in a non-partisan way to accomplish what is in the best interests of this country.”
Roger Rabbit Commentary: You’re trying out for TV comedian, right?
“Another hope I have is that the nasty mud slinging, half-truths, lies and ugliness in speech and actions among politicians in general will be stopped immediately.”
Roger Rabbit Commentary: Your side first. Your side started it.
“It is important that the citizens of this nation step up to their civic duty …”
Roger Rabbit Commentary: They just did.
” … and become proactively involved in grass-roots projects that will ultimately lead to improving, if not solving, many of our nation’s serious problems. We have just laws that need enforcement such as curbing/eliminating illegal immigration and keeping felony criminals behind bars and not making a mockery of justice and common sense. The welfare assistance program needs overhauling. Self-reliance should be emphasized and a person needing help should turn to his/her family, church or non-profit organization before expecting a handout from the government. Unless someone is incapable of working, those on welfare assistance should be expected to do community service in return for money and services received. Let us use our talents, minds and abilities to work together as a nation for the common good of all.”
Roger Rabbit Commentary: If you think illegal immigration and welfare reform are at the top of the list of our country’s problems, you must be a Republican.
If you want to see the original of Miz Probst’s screed, go to http://tinyurl.com/y2n3zy. I don’t know if it’s copyright, but I can’t imagine anyone wanting to steal her intellectual output — that would be like swiping a dog turd off someone else’s lawn.
The rethugs had 12 years to show they can be bi-partisan. Now I say fuck em. Let’s jail the traitors and be done with it.
Of course I want to work with mature people eager to take the high road in solving our nation’s problems in a non-partisan way; trouble is, I can’t find any to work with. On the GOP side, there’s nothing but liars, whiners, and hate-slingers whose collective mental and emotional age is somewhere between 2 and 3.
109
The rethugs had 12 years to show they can be bi-partisan. Now I say fuck em. Let’s jail the traitors and be done with it. Commentby RightEqualsStupid— 11/11/06@ 6:41 pm
I’m with you 100%.
Here is a REAL message someone just sent me on my campaign website. Talk about nutcases!
Subject: A Message from Paul Grant Harper
Date: 11/11/2006 4:52:12 P.M. Pacific Standard Time
From: harper34@new.rr.com
Reply To:
To: RPope98155@aol.com
*************************************************
Name:Paul Grant Harper
Address:1006 1/2 Elizabeth Ave
City:Marinette
State/ Province:WI
Country:
Zip/ Postal Code:54143
Email:harper34@new.rr.com
Phone:715 – 736 – crop
Fax:
Query:Having sufficiently fantasylanded yourself into obvlivion, are you
punked by the for real people, good enough, now. Give the Pope, who just
happens to be the faggot of all time hell, for not covering my ass, in the
first place. You know the story, you dishonest, nosey, and decrepid,
collection plate begging loser. Where are you? You are too busy being
punked by the faggoting in fantasyland Devil Worshippers, and the Blanch
Roqueford faggot insists that it be worded this way, punk. So be a good
little dick sucking faggot, and do your job, punk, or you will end up in
the scrap pile for real, minus your image blem ass coverings, punk. Gusss
who I am in touch with, faggot? You already know, leaving you a quivering
mound of shit, just like all the rest of your collection plate begging
faggot associates, who you are too chicken shit to befriend, punk. Quit
being a faggot, and be my nigger, for real, or you will be dammned by a
real Devil Worshippers business plan, punk. I’m wise, and I call the
almighty a faggot right along with you, wether you know it or not, punk.
No criminal punk legal, to try and put money in the collection plate
either, punk.
Sincerely
Paul Grant Harper
*************************************************
*************************************************
In this letter to the P-I, Mort Shafer of Seattle, a mature and high-minded person with a rational sense of priorities, shows the petty and mean-spirited Republican whiner Miz Probst how it’s done:
“Now that the people all over our country have spoken, virtually in one voice, to reject the Bush/Cheney program and the GOP-controlled Congress, let us focus on three reforms of major importance:
“1. End the CIA-run torture flights and camps all over the world.
“2. Since the Iraqi people across their spectrum of political and religious divisions for the past two years or longer have spoken in poll after poll, showing that great majorities of 71 percent to 89 percent want U.S. military forces to leave their country, who is there in our land to deny them their choice to have their country free from occupation forces, for whatever reason?
“3. Restore the U.S. Constitution, first by rescinding the recently adopted Military Commissions Act of 2006 that removed our hallowed right of habeas corpus, then by prosecuting the avowed lawbreakers who defied the FISA Act by setting up warrantless governmental spying activities (this would include both President Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney).”
Quoted under the same Fair Use doctrine; same link.
Means nothing. The last 10,000 ballots could be 100% for Burner, for all you or I know. We’ll know who won when all the votes are counted, and not before.
Commentby Roger Rabbit— 11/11/06@ 6:32 pm
Oh, I thought you guys were saying that Burner would start to close her deficit with Reichert over the weekend because Pierce County wasn’t counting votes this weekend? Must be my mistake. No wait here it is:
However, I am now absolutely confident that the race will narrow substantially over the next few days as King County continues to tabulate over the holiday weekend… and Pierce doesn’t report again until Monday.
At the same link (Nov. 12 P-I Letters to the Editor), Carl W. Lesesne of Renton decries the passage of Seattle’s streets and bridges levy:
“I read your Thursday editorial, ‘Transportation funding: Moving again,’ with both amazement and disgust. … Never mind that the Seattle administration has collected and spent this tax money for other projects. I hope that none of you will escape this burdensome tax. I am glad that I don’t live in that tax-happy city. What about people without cars paying this obscene tax? You have no compassion for the low-income taxpayers saddled with the outrageous taxes. … Seattle getting bogged down with ever-increasing taxes will only lead to a tax rebellion in spite of recent votes for tax increases. I know that they will soon say this is enough and join us in killing all stupid tax increases.”
Same Fair Use; same link.
Roger Rabbit Commentary: I’m at a loss to understand why Mr. Lesesne is so upset about a city tax HE doesn’t pay. He lives in Renton, so it’s no skin off his ass! So why the fuck did he bother to write this letter?
P.S. — I’ll bet he owns a car and will drive it on the street and bridge improvements that Seattle voters decided to tax themselves for. Now the FREELOADERS are bitching about taxes other people pay. It must be a sport for them.
I agree with that Rabbit, you guys can tax yourselves all you want. I live in Kirkland and will be happy to drive on your new streets, that’s of course if you ever build them. I am still waiting to drive on the new viaduct…tunnell…surface street that we are all paying for.
116
Oh, I thought you guys were saying that Burner would start to close her deficit with Reichert over the weekend because Pierce County wasn’t counting votes this weekend? Must be my mistake. No wait here it is:
However, I am now absolutely confident that the race will narrow substantially over the next few days as King County continues to tabulate over the holiday weekend… and Pierce doesn’t report again until Monday.
Commentby rob— 11/11/06@ 6:48 pm
You’re got the wrong guy. Goldy said that; I’m Roger Rabbit, and I said (#80 above), “I subjectively think she’s done, too.”
I then went on to explain the counted ballots are not predictive of the uncounted ballots, because there’s no cause-and-effect relationship between what these voters did.
All I’m saying is, we don’t know who won until all the ballots are counted. Yes, my opinion is Burner will lose, but my opinion isn’t predictive either. Still confused? Any questions?
How did that monorail tax work out for you ?
I guess i would argue that counted ballots aren’t predictive is all they seem to be showing a trend.
118
I agree with that Rabbit, you guys can tax yourselves all you want. I live in Kirkland and will be happy to drive on your new streets, that’s of course if you ever build them. I am still waiting to drive on the new viaduct…tunnell…surface street that we are all paying for. Commentby rob— 11/11/06@ 6:59 pm
fyi, I came out against the Seattle streets and bridges levy. I didn’t see why Hizzoner needed $1.8 billion of new taxes to clear a $500 million backlog of s & b repairs. I also agree with those who say this money already exists in the city budget and the mayor and council should not be rewarded for spending it on other things — they should be bounced out of office. However, Seattle voters have spoken, and they say yes. Write your complaint here [ ] and send it to them, not me.
120
How did that monorail tax work out for you ? Commentby rob— 11/11/06@ 7:01 pm
I didn’t vote for that, either.
I’m starting to look like a pretty smart bunny. Too bad the rest of Seattle isn’t as smart as me. They got the Sonics arena right, though — they shoved it up those Oklahoma owners’ asses.
121
I guess i would argue that counted ballots aren’t predictive is all they seem to be showing a trend. Commentby rob— 11/11/06@ 7:04 pm
If a trend isn’t predictive, what the fuck is it good for?
I am not complaining. Like I said, you guys can tax yourselves all you want it doesn’t affect me one way or the other.
I have to leave for a few minutes because a dog is chasing me and he’s right on my rear bumper …
maybe I didn’t write that so you could understand. If so my mistake. You are the one that said counted ballots aren’t predictive. I argued that they are and they are showing a trend. Questions?
How did that monorail tax work out for you ? Commentby rob— 11/11/06@ 7:01 pm
I didn’t vote for that, either.
Commentby Roger Rabbit— 11/11/06@ 7:07 pm
Dang rabbit, you are starting to sound like one of those anti tax knukle dragging conservatives. You have to get with the program rabbit, everyone knows the gumvit knows best how to spend your money.
Are you from france or something, you seem to have surrendered? Have a good weekend.
Whew! That pooch was some horny – he wanted to lick my cute cottontail in the worst way! No dog can outrun Roger Cheetah Rabbit, though!
For a good time, call 1-800-LICK-ROG.
NEW ORLEANS REINSTATES DUNKING STOOL
Now here’s an idea that might catch on and go national:
“FEMA Official Gets Dunked in New Orleans
“By RUKMINI CALLIMACHI, AP
“NEW ORLEANS (Nov. 11) – For $5, residents of one of the city’s hardest hit neighborhoods received three tennis balls Saturday – and a chance to vent 15 months of frustration at the slow pace of rebuilding since Hurricane Katrina.
“The object of their annoyance sat perched atop a dunk tank – Bob Josephson, director of intergovernmental affairs in Louisiana for the … Federal Emergency Management Agency. … In less than an hour, residents shelled out $250 to dunk Josephson.”
Quoted under Fair Use; for entire story and/or copyright info see http://tinyurl.com/y8vdde
http://mobile.thenation.com/do.....;s=editors
It’s Over for Bush
[from the November 27, 2006 issue]
The year 2006 will long be remembered as the Great Retribution–or perhaps the Deliverance Election. George W. Bush’s presidency is toast. Bush’s potential to further harm the Republic has been greatly reduced. Most Americans stopped believing anything he said a good while back. This was their opportunity to tell him to his face. And they did, with such force and breadth that maybe even he and his cronies heard them.
Much credit goes to the voters and the Democratic Party. Not many off-year elections move history in a fundamental way, but this one did. Americans have elected an opposition that can now check the Administration’s destructive policies and investigate its actions at home and abroad, while at the same time putting forth policies that begin to reverse the damage of the past six years. African-American and Latino voters were crucial to the Democratic victory, with a significantly higher percentage of Latinos than in the last midterms voting against the Bush agenda.
The losers, starting with Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld, who resigned immediately, deserve no sympathy. They have “ruled”–not governed–with cold arrogance and a frightening willingness to ignore the law, including the Constitution. Their Republican legions marched along in lock step, collecting boodle for themselves as they went.
I’d like to see Bush sitting in one of these! I’d pay $5 for ONE tennis ball! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I....._stool.png
Politicians invited to be dunked who politely declined included Mayor Ray Nagin and Gov. Kathleen Blanco. No shows included City Council President Oliver Thomas and the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, in charge of fixing the city’s levees
I guess Nagin already let his busses get dunked so what’s the point?
Don’t you love to watch the right wing turds make fools of themselves after the American public just bent them over and ass fucked them. Wise up punks. We don’t want you or your kind in our America!
We can’t have a real middle unless we have a real Left. So, we on the left will push for legal retribution for laws broken by the Bushistas.
How can that be “extreme”? I thought conservAtives were in favor of strict law enforcement.
I say : Shoot the looters.
From John Testers Website, those in parenthesis are mine. You could probalby tell that though.
Jon Tester proved we could do things differently — eliminating taxes on 13,000 Montana businesses,
(wow John do you mean those evil corporations?)
(John Testors problem with the Patriot Act.)
They can obtain your bank statements and medical records; they can even keep tabs on our guns. (Oh no not our guns too John?)
Jon Tester voted for a bill that would raise the Montana minimum wage to $6 an hour by July 2006.
(thanks John for that big whopping 85 cent raise after 8 years, I love you John)
. Montanans deserve a senator who’ll demand the President present a clear plan to give the Iraqi military control of their own country and bring our troops home.
(John, you got any ideas on how to do that yourself? Just askin.)
Jon Tester opposes amnesty for those who are here illegally. People who want to come to America should follow the rules — and we should enforce them. There should be no cuts in line.
(The rules say we should send them all back to Mexico or wherever John, that’s kinda harsh don’t you think for a liberal?)
In the United States Senate, Jon will stand up to anyone — Republican or Democrat — who wants to take away Montanans’ gun rights.
(Good luck with Nancy Pelosi on that one John, you know in San Franciso there are no gun rights)
. In the legislature, Jon supported legislation to help keep and expand military missions in Montana.
(Wow John, I thought liberals wanted to contract the military, now I know that Montana is in grave danger of being invaded by Canada but you have to get with the liberal program John and cut defense spending)
135
Politicians invited to be dunked who politely declined included Mayor Ray Nagin and Gov. Kathleen Blanco. No shows included City Council President Oliver Thomas and the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, in charge of fixing the city’s levees Commentby rob— 11/11/06@ 8:20 pm
I don’t like to get wet either …
140
Hmm. I, for one, certainly hope that our newly-elected masters display a better command of basic math skills than that. Of course, now that we’re almost a week into the age of “2+2=5″, perhaps it’s my math that needs investigation?
Commentby Grognard— 11/11/06@ 9:17 pm
I think you should take this up with the reporter who wrote the story. Your quarrel is with him, not with the politicians he was writing about.
Can’t tell the difference between reporters and pols … sheesh …
I don’t like to get wet either …
Commentby Roger Rabbit— 11/11/06@ 9:26 pm
You picked a strange place to live then rabbit. I was just pointing out that at least the Fema guy had enough guts to face the public.
Hey Grognard — are you new here? Let me explain the informal HA.org posting rules:
1. This is a liberal blog.
2. Anyone can post here.
3. There is no censorship.
4. As liberals, our job is to verbally kick the living shit out of unpatriotic, America-hating, fascist trollfucks.
5. No mercy for wingnuts.
6. Our terms are unconditional surrender.
7. There will be trials.
8. klake is a nazi.
Any questions?
145
You picked a strange place to live then rabbit. I was just pointing out that at least the Fema guy had enough guts to face the public. Commentby rob— 11/11/06@ 9:33 pm
Tell us something we don’t already know.
It’s quite dry down here in my reinforced concrete bunker.
Comfy too. :D
I forgot that you were in your moms basement. Sorry.
My mom is dead. She was running over on Green Lake Way by a speeding SUV driven by a Republican. (sniff) Bastard.
Sorry to hear that rabbit, I do have a dreaded SUV though with a 330 hp HEMI. I didn’t hit her though I would have recorded that on my armrest.
Besides you can’t speed on those crappy streets you guys have over there.
Besides you can’t speed on those crappy streets you guys have over there. Commentby rob— 11/11/06@ 9:49 pm
That doesn’t stop anybody. Hell it doesn’t even slow them down.
My burrow is a former ICBM silo.
Besides you can’t speed on those crappy streets you guys have over there. Commentby rob— 11/11/06@ 9:49 pm
That doesn’t stop anybody. Hell it doesn’t even slow them down.
Commentby Roger Rabbit— 11/11/06@ 9:56 pm
Oh come on Rabbit, speeding on Seattle streets would be like trying to get an education in Seattle Schools, It ain’t gonna happen. Thanks to the glorious liberal establishment.
I thought you guys were pro education, what’s up with those crappy skoooools you have there?
ROB HOW’D YOUR HANGOVER FEEL ON WED?
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSER!!!
Now there is a prime example of Seattle schools. But to answer your question I wasn’t happy until we lost the Senate too. Now it’s up to the Litardian Party. You just got a sweeet deal on Iraq, enjoy it.
spelling, libtardian sorry
Besides you can’t speed on those crappy streets you guys have over there. Commentby rob— 11/11/06@ 9:49 pm
Leave it to a wingnut to complain about how difficult it is to break the law.
Now there is some deep thought. You might want to scroll up a bit though and read the rest of the conversation. Special ed students are exempt from that though.
HERE’S A LITTLE STORY FOR YOU ROB:
Marie Steichen died two months ago but she won a battle to become a county commissioner for a small South Dakota town in the US elections, an official said.
Jerauld county auditor Cindy Peterson said that the election list closed on August 1, and while Steichen died from cancer in September her name was kept on the list for Tuesday’s election.
Steichen beat a Republican rival by 100 votes to 64 and Peterson said she believed that voters knew the woman was dead but wanted to make their political point.
AND GUESS WHAT ROB? THE REPUBLICAN WAS AN INCUMBENT. THE FOLKS IN THAT LITTLE RED STATE TOWN WOULD RATHER VOTE FOR A DEAD DEMOCRAT THAN A REPUBLICAN INCUMBENT. HOW’S THAT MAKE YOU FEEL?
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSER!!!!
I heard about that lib bro, it was just the end to a bad night.
So I guess name calling is one of those great liberal traditions. Not that it bothers me, I was just sayin.
Now there is some deep thought.
Commentby rob— 11/11/06@ 10:15 pm
This from the chappie whose most intelligent comment consisted of bragging about the size of his SUV.
Now there is some deep thought.
Commentby rob— 11/11/06@ 10:15 pm
This from the chappie whose most intelligent comment consisted of bragging about the size of his SUV.
Commentby Don Joe— 11/11/06@ 10:23 pm
Well I would disagree with that, like I said you could scroll up but since you ride the short bus you don’t have to.
Don Joe? what again was your most intelligent comment?
Well I would disagree with that, like I said you could scroll up…
Commentby rob— 11/11/06@ 10:25 pm
Not sure why I’d need to scroll up when I’ve already started at the top and scrolled down. Oh, I get it. This is like listening rock music backwards and finding the hidden message. Right.
WHAT WOULD HAVE MADE YOUR NIGHT BETTER ROB?
TED HAGGARD STILL IN THE CLOSET AND TALKING TO YOUR PREZNIT ONCE A WEEK?
MARK FOLEY RE-ELECTED AND MAKING VISITS TO THE PAGE DORM?
DUKE CUNNINGHAM POLISHING HIS FRENCH FURNITURE, COMMUTING TO HOUSE IN HIS ROLLS AND CRUISING THE POTOMAC IN HIS YACHT?
BOB NEY SIPPING COGNAC WITH JACK ABRAMOFF?
SHALL I GO ON? LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSER!!!
I forgot sorry, you’re a liberal and aren’t expected to have intelligent comments.
Picky, picky robloser. You can rail all you want to about our comments. Seems we have intelligent voters. Loooooser.
Lib bro, My night was fine actually. I have the same problems with the people you mentioned that you do. I was happy that Darcy Burner was a loser even with the blue wave and I was happy that Lincoln Chaffet lost, he has always been a libtard and I was happy that all the republicans that started sounding like democrats lost. I’m good with it. Now the libtardians have to govern instead of bitch all the time. We will see what happens.
Hmmm. Rob. Excellent name for a CONservative. With all the robbing and looting done so far by the NeoCons, we seem to have come up winners. Keep whining punk.
Picky, picky robloser. You can rail all you want to about our comments. Seems we have intelligent voters. Loooooser.
Commentby Tree Frog Farmer— 11/11/06@ 10:36 pm
Weren’t you guys the one who promoted Darcy Burnout? Now I would think if I put that much time and effort into a losing candidate in a blue wave i would have to check myself before I started calling people losers.
How did that investment work out for you ?
Don Joe? what again was your most intelligent comment?
Commentby rob— 11/11/06@ 10:30 pm
In this thread, I’d say the one about you complaining about how difficult it is to break the law–how very typically wingnut of you to want to have no impediments to doing something illegal.
Since I’ve started posting here, I’d say that the explanation I gave outlining the causal chain from a change in Goldman Sachs’ commodities futures index to current gas prices.
Tell you what. Take a look at this editorial from the Wall Street Journal. If you can tell me what’s wrong with the reasoning in that article, then you will have shown yourself at least slightly more intelligent than any other HA wingnut troll. Show me what you got, sport.
WELL NICE TALKIN’ TO YA ROB. I HAVE TWO WORDS FOR YOU: SPEAKER PELOSI.
YOUR PREZNIT IS AT 31% APPROVAL BUT YOU CAN STILL WORSHIP A JACKASS. IT’S A FREE COUNTRY. JUST ASK TOM CRUISE. I LEAVE YOU TO EXHAUST YOUR REMAINING TALKING POINTS. GO CHENEY YOURSELF.
NIGHTY NIGHT!
I missed the post where you called me a punk, now I have been called punk, loser, and wingnut. Seattle schools are great aren’t they?
Just passing through, Rabbit, but, given your purported rules 2 and 3, then yes I have two questions: First, is this merely another Kossian echo chamber, or may one pause here from time to time for rational discussion – know the enemy, and all that; and second, is the use of gloves required, or is one allowed to use actual (gasp) facts in their arguments here?
Night lib bro, you just made my point thanks.
ALMOST FORGOT… LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSER!!!!!!
It was good to see lib bro surrender so easily. It’s the liberal tradition, maybe he is from france though.
Grognard,
The use of facts is certainly appreciated, but picking and choosing certain facts while ignoring others is rather deprecated.
WHAT POINT? THE ONE ON THE TOP OF YOUR HEAD? SORRY ROB THAT WAS SELF-INFLICTED. LIVE WITH IT. G’NIGHT LOOOOOOOOOSER!
Don Joe,
Did you have some facts or were you just name calling? Sorry if I missed your “facts” but I did scroll up and looked for them.
Oh. I’m sorry, Don Joe, did somehow step on your toes while I was speaking to the Rabbit? I apologize.
Did you have some facts or were you just name calling? Sorry if I missed your “facts” but I did scroll up and looked for them.
Commentby rob— 11/11/06@ 10:49 pm
Go to this comment. Follow the link that’s in that comment, and read the editorial. I claim, as a matter of fact, that the reasoning in that article is faulty (there two errors). See if you can tell me what they are.
WHAT POINT? THE ONE ON THE TOP OF YOUR HEAD? SORRY ROB THAT WAS SELF-INFLICTED. LIVE WITH IT. G’NIGHT LOOOOOOOOOSER!
Commentby YOS LIB BRO— 11/11/06@ 10:47 pm
Lib bro is just too smart. I have never traded comments with anyone that is smarter than him. I give up lib bro, you got me with that one. I just can’t compete, goodnight. You liberals are gooooooood. NOT
You liberals are gooooooood.
Commentby rob— 11/11/06@ 10:56 pm
So, you are not going to take me up on my challenge?
I was just watching the news about the blizzard in the cascades tonight and that ski resorts are opening earlier than normal and closed the latest in the year on record last year. What happened to that global warming anyways, did Mayor Nichols fix it?
Roger did you wear your metals that you earned in Viet Nam today?
WASHINGTON – With National Veterans Awareness Week under way and the national Veterans Day observance on Nov. 11, the Veterans Affairs secretary is urging all veterans to show their pride by wearing their military medals.
R. James Nicholson’s “Veterans Pride” initiative calls on veterans to wear the medals they earned while in uniform this Veterans Day to “let America know who you are and what you did for freedom,” he said.
The campaign is modeled after a tradition in Australia and New Zealand, countries that honor the Australian and New Zealand Army Corps, or ANZAC, every April 25. The observance originally commemorated more than 8,000 Australians killed during the battle of Gallipoli during World War I, but now honors all Australian and New Zealand veterans.
Last year, while attending ANZAC ceremonies in Sydney, Nicholson said he was struck to see all the veterans and surviving family members wearing their military medals and campaign ribbons.
“It focused public pride and attention on those veterans as individuals with personal histories of service and sacrifice for the common good,” he noted in a message to veterans. “That is why I am calling on America’s veterans to wear their military medals this Veterans Day, Nov. 11, 2006.”
Nicholson and leaders of major veterans groups announced the initiative during an Oct. 18 ceremony here at the VA headquarters.
Don Joe I followed both links, your comment was talking about gas prices and the WS Journal article was talking about defense spending. The first error I would percieve is that your comment has nothing to do with the WS Journal Article. As for the second you have got me pegged. I don’t know. While I served in the Marines I am not an expert on what defense spending has been throught the 20th century.
Since today is Memorial Day (Remembrance Day for our friends north of the border), I offer, for your consideration, Sting’s “Children’s Crusade”:
Young men, soldiers, Nineteen Fourteen
Marching through countries they’d never seen
Virgins with rifles, a game of charades
All for a Children’s Crusade
Pawns in the game are not victims of chance
Strewn on the fields of Belgium and France
Poppies for young men, death’s bitter trade
All of those young lives betrayed
The children of England would never be slaves
They’re trapped on the wire and dying in waves
The flower of England face down in the mud
And stained in the blood of a whole generation
Corpulent generals safe behind lines
History’s lessons drowned in red wine
Poppies for young men, death’s bitter trade
All of those young lives betrayed
All for a Children’s Crusade
The children of England would never be slaves
They’re trapped on the wire and dying in waves
The flower of England face down in the mud
And stained in the blood of a whole generation
Midnight in Soho, Nineteen Eighty-four
Fixing in doorways, opium slaves
Poppies for young men, such bitter trade
All of those young lives betrayed
All for a Children’s Crusade
To that day when “Children’s Crusades” will have become a thing of the past.
throughout, sorry
Rob, you don’t have to know anything about defense spending to spot the errors of reasoning in the Wall Street Journal opinion piece. You do, however, need to have a basic grasp of the meaning of “Gross Domestic Product” and “Government Spending”. Since both subjects are generally taught in high school, I presume you understand what those terms mean.
I’ll give you some more time to think about it. Frankly, the errors are rather glaring and obvious.
What happened to that global warming anyways, did Mayor Nichols fix it?
Commentby rob— 11/11/06@ 11:06 pm
No, Dave Reichert called up the weather board, and had it fired.
I will look at it again but it’s kinda late for me to do math problems. What did that have to do with gas prices again?
You need to go to sleep, then. The gas prices was my answer to your question about my most intelligent comment. The WSJ opinion piece is your opportunity to show the rest of us how bright you are, and I have to say that you’re failing the test miserably.
Well I did go back and look again and as far as I can see defense spending is down in both government outlays and percent of gdp since the last time we were at war. 1991 and only slightly up in government outlays and percent of gdp from when we were at peace in 2000. So I would have to disagree that there is a glaring mistake in their article. You are free to enlighten me though.
To me their article is saying that Clinton cut defense, which he admits to and Bush increased it. Which we all know and it went up only slightly as a percent of gdp and government outlays not really showing that we are at war when it went up dramatically during the cold war, vietnam etc. Look at the graphs they are obvious and they trac together. So I guess you are smarter than me if you see something in that.
Excuse me, Rob? Is this “Guess what I’ve got in my pocket!” stuff the usual caliber of argument you see here?
I looked at your gas price thing again and I have no idea what you have said since you started posting here? Jesus, I just started posting here so you might want to give me a clue. As for gas prices thank your senator Cantwell and your other senator from florida and jeb bush. If we want to burn it we should drill for it. If not we can all go live in caves.
Grognard, I am not sure. I just had one moonbat say i was failing because I haven’t followed his wisdom since he started posting here. The wisdom here seems to be, call names and retreat. But that is usual for liberals.
Rob,
The article uses those facts to argue that we aren’t spending enough on defense:
“Our own judgment is that the U.S. is going to have to increase defense spending to meet these challenges, and that the time to begin such a debate is now.”
The data they cite does not support that conclusion, and that’s about as big a hint as I’m willing to give you.
Grognard, you’re welcome to weigh in as well. See if you can spot the flaws in reasoning in the WSJ article.
WOW ROB YOU’RE SO DOWN ON DARCY BURNER. WELL HERE’S A LITTLE LINK TO THE INCUMBENT DEMONSTRATING HIS INDEPENDENT THINKING. CLICK ON IT IF YOU DARE MARINE:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=5_tTYlnlG7s
WELL WHAT HE DOESN’T KNOW ABOUT CURRENT AFFAIRS HE CERTAINLY MAKES UP FOR IN GOOD HAIR AND BICEPS.
re 202: There is only so much disposable income that Americans of average means possess. The more of our money that goes into our gas tanks, the less that goes to the likes of WalMart.
That’s good for America.
I’d like to see big oil and WalMart at each others throats.
Libtard, oh sorry lib bro, Edidted videos on U tube doesn’t sway me as much as it does you. Funny how he beat your candidate in the midst of a blue tide though.
Don Joe: I guess you and the WS Journal are entitled to their own opinions but if you look at the charts I would have to go with them.
Re: 206, yes I know. Walmart bad , big oil bad. That is so inciteful, thank you. The people that have to buy gas and shop at Walmart have no right to have money. That money should belong to the state. You may want to know that the poeple that shop at Walmart aren’t the big, rich republithugs though.
Also 206, the people that gas prices affect the most are the poor people who have to live far away from where they work. I believe alot of them are democrats. It’s nice you believe that the high gas prices they suffer is good for america because then they can’t by food and clothes at walmart.
You liberals are pretty harsh.
Not all democrats live in a condo in Belltown.
Grognard, I am not sure. I just had one moonbat say i was failing because I haven’t followed his wisdom since he started posting here.
Commentby rob— 11/11/06@ 11:40 pm
Fascinating. I seem to recall using the words “intelligence” and “reasoning.” “Wisdom,” be it mine, yours or the Wisdom of the Ages hasn’t been part of the discussion. We can discss wisdom if you’d wish, but wisdom requires the ability to do some critical thinking. So, there’s a little test I’d like to get out of the way first.
You see, Rob, we get quite a few wingnuts showing up here acting like they’re capable of putting together a well-reasoned argument. When they do, I give them the WSJ article litmus test. Those who can spot the errors in reasoning in that article get treated with respect. Those who can’t spot the errors in reasoning in that article get written of as idiot trolls.
Don Joe, right you have got me pegge. I already admitted it, now please tell me how your liberal wisdom is different than the charts that the WS Journal shows to support their argument. Please O great one. Enlighten me!
I am waiting, I am sure your great knowedge is not classified is it?
And Headless Lucy, appropriate name by the way. Tell me again how parnents and children that can’t afford to buy food and clothes at walmart becuase they are paying to much for gas is good for america again?
Don Jo, I am still waiting? If this is your usual trick you should have a quick answer.
Well, gee, thanks, Don, but that’s not how it usually works. Normally in a debate, one side, in this case the Wall Street Journal, establishes a position, and then the other side, in this case you, establishes a counter position. I’ve seen the data and reasoning behind the WSJ’s position, but nothing from you but an allegation that the WSJ “is wrong”. Since the WSJ is an internationally recognized publication, I’m afraid I’ll need a bit more than just your say-so that there’s an egregious error in their position, and frankly, the very fact that you’ve asked us to do your work for you tends to further undermine your unsupported allegation.
I think Don Jo moved to france.
Well, gee, thanks, Don, but that’s not how it usually works. Normally in a debate, one side, in this case the Wall Street Journal, establishes a position, and then the other side, in this case you, establishes a counter position.
Commentby Grognard— 11/12/06@ 12:31 am
Were this a debate, you would be correct. However, this isn’t a debate. It’s a test of your ability and willingness to think critically. If you’re going to be so intellectually lazy that I have to do your thinking for you, then I’m not going to waste my time debating you.
That said, since neither you nor Rob seem up to the task yet are likely to whinge about it without end, I shall endeavor to explain what you two should have spotted without any difficulty. There are two flaws in the reasoning of the WSJ article, which purports to use defense spending, both as a percentage of overall government spending and defense spending as a percentage of GDP, as evidence that we are currently not spending enough on defense.
The data given does not support the WSJ article’s conclusion. I’ll address each in turn.
1) Government spending is broken down into two categories: mandatory and discretionary. Mandatory spending includes, among other things, money the government spend on interest on the government debt. For that reason alone, mandatory spending is the largest part of the government spending pie as it has ever been in history.
Defense spending is discretionary. If you really want to guage how much money the government is spending on defense, you’d compare it as a percentage of discretionary spending, not overall spending. If you look at the OMB figures for 2006, and include the $50 billion emergency funding for the global war on terror, defense spendging was 55% of all discretionary spending. The requested funding for 2007 (same link) has defense spending at 56%. Both figures aren’t much different than the 59% during the first Gulf War.
2) The linkage between defense spending and GDP is even more tenuous. So, we sold more hamburgers this year than we did last year. Why would that require an increased defense budget? Not unless vegans the world over are armed and ready to attack us over hamburger consumption.
There simply is no relationship between increases in productivity, the primary engine that drives growth and GDP, and the need to provide defense. The defense budget is, or at least ought to be, determined by the threats we fact. But, hey, it makes for a pretty chart, so let’s just throw that in anyway. Nevertheless, the chart does nothing to support the WJS’s thesis.
There you have it, boys. This is what you get when you apply some basic knowledge and a little critical thinking. Honestly, are both of you really too stupid to spot these errors in reasoning? It’s shame, really, because I was hoping at least one of you would have been capable of the intellectual rigors required to conduct a decent debate here on HA.
By the way, Grognard, your argument with respect to the WSJ reputation is generally known as an appeal to authority. That argument only becomes compelling when the proponent of a particular view happens to have some expertise not available to the general public. In this case, however, the WSJ’s argument doesn’t require any form of specialized knowledge. There reasoning was plainly open for all of us to critique. However, since you accepted the WSJ’s reasoning without question, your use of the appeal to authority counts as an additional mark against you.
Oh, and Rob, it’s pretty clear that you’re not all that interested in doing any sort of mental calesthenics. I just thought it worth demonstrating for the HA crowd that when you talk about “skoooools” you’re pretty much shootin’ blanks.
SUNDAY HEADLINES
Good morning, trollfucks … I assume you’re all up and primping for church, because if you’re not in jail you definitely need to be in church … doing whatever can be done for your rotten, corrupt, evil souls. Here’s a few news items to swallow along with your wakeup juice:
CASTRO’S HEALTH DETERIORATING
The U.S. government believes Castro will not return to power or survive through 2007.
BUSH POPULARITY HITS ALL-TIME LOW
A Newsweek poll announced yesterday says only 31% of the American public approves of how Bush is doing his job, while 63% disapprove. I think this means if he’s impeached nobody will miss him.
PUBLIC OVERWHELMINGLY SUPPORTS DEMOCRATIC AGENDA
The same poll shows extremely high public support for the Democrats’ congressional agenda: Lowering drug prices (92%), raising the minimum wage (89%), investigating government contracts in Iraq (89%) and cutting the interest rate on student loans (88%). In other words, the public rejects the rightwing agenda of dismantling the middle class, and is giving the Democrats a green light to investigate Republican corruption. Suck on it, fascist traitors.
Oh … and don’t forget to pray for forgiveness of your many sins … right now, you need all the divine mercy you can get.
And let’s not forget that Stefan’s blog promotes terrorism:
“Congratulations Speaker Pelosi, now let the bombs fall where they may. My prediction: terror attack on domestic soil passenger aircraft within the next six months. Casualties in the 2-300 range. And, unfortunately, maybe that’s just what we need. It’s obvious people don’t remember what happened 5 years ago.
Posted by FullContactPolitics at November 8, 2006 10:52 AM”
http://tinyurl.com/ydlfwu
Yes, Stefan, you have a traitor posting on your blog that innocent Americans should be killed by a terrorist attack — as retaliation for electing a Democratic Congress — and you’re letting him use your blog to disseminate that message, you sorry fuckwad.
ABSENTEE BALLOT GLITCH SLOWS 8TH C.D. VOTE COUNT
As a pollworker, I know many people dropped off their absentee ballots at our polling place last Tuesday instead of mailing them. The Seattle Times reports that King County Elections received 100 ballot bags from polling places that have broken zippers or seals because they were overstuffed by pollworkers. What the hell, what else could pollworkers have done with the ballots?
These bags contain 20,000 absentee ballots that aren’t counted yet. KCE plans to ask the county canvassing board at its Tuesday meeting to decide whether they should be counted. Until then, there will be no result in the 8th C.D. race.
According to the Seattle Times,
“Jim Buck, King County’s interim elections director, acknowledged that the … broken zippers and unclosed bag seals could potentially have allowed ballots to be cast after voting ended. But Buck said the bags had a clear chain of custody until they reached the counting-room floor, and were never outside the control of poll workers. … Buck will recommend that the ballots be accepted …. ‘I think poll workers who take an oath had these under their control all the way through election night,’ Buck said. ‘I don’t think there is any question that they were timely received.’
“Mike Britt, Reichert’s campaign manager, said the GOP would monitor the Tuesday canvassing-board meeting. … ‘I’m not going to jump to any conclusions until I hear from them on Tuesday,’ Britt said.
“The … bags … were overstuffed because an unusually large number of absentee ballots were dropped off at polling sites, said Buck, the elections manager. As a result, some of the bags were too bloated to seal. The zippers on other bags burst like a sausage casing. … Because the bags are unopened, it is unclear how many ballots they contain. Jones said a well-stuffed bag held about 200. If so, the bags would hold about 5 percent of the nearly 384,000 mail-in ballots received thus far.
“Buck said voters should not be alarmed by the problems. ‘The question is not whether it is a valid ballot, because we will be doing signature verification, but whether it came in on election night,’ he said. ‘All these bags came back on election night and were locked up in the cages.'”
Quoted under Fair Use; for complete story and/or copyright info see http://tinyurl.com/ychl7m
Roger Rabbit Comment: It’s no big deal — and certainly isn’t evidence of hanky-panky. Running an election in a county with over a million voters is complicated, and these kinds of glitches happen.
In order to prevent this problem, King County Elections staff would have had to predict human behavior, which is impossible. How could they know thousands of people who normally mail their absentee ballots would drop them off at the polls? But even if they anticipated it, what could they do about it? The ballot bags are a given size and you can’t requisition larger bags on short notice. The county owns enough ballot bags to provide each polling location with a bag, but they don’t have an extra supply of bags large enough to supply each polling location with two bags. It’s just one of those things.
As Jim Buck points out, these bags were always in the custody of pollworkers and/or county elections staff, and the public never had access to them. So, some individual couldn’t just walk in and stick more ballots in them. It took pollworkers until 9 PM to 9:30 PM to close down their polling stations, and the poll inspectors then drove the ballot bags downtown. By 10:30 PM, they were all locked in secure cages. It would be literally impossible for someone to sneak late ballots into the bags.
Now let’s talk about stuffing the bags with forged ballots. For someone to do that, they would need access to a supply of blank ballots, and would have to successfully forge the signatures of voters who didn’t vote on them, which would require access to lists of who voted and who didn’t and facsimiles of those voters’ genuine signatures. Accomplishing that would require a large organization with sophisticated capabilities — and inside help. It didn’t happen, folks.
LATEST REICHERT – BURNER RESULTS
Darcy Burner (D) 95,195 – 49.09%
Dave Reichert (R) 98,709 – 50.90%
The Seattle Times said,
“(I)n votes counted in King County on Saturday, Reichert extended his lead by 419 votes, to 3,514 total votes. It was the first batch of ballots in which Burner has lost in King County. Pierce County, which has heavily favored Reichert, resumes counting on Monday.”
http://tinyurl.com/ychl7m
Roger Rabbit Commentary:
I’m fed up with the GOP’s games, and I’m not going to play those games. Declaring “victory” before all the ballots are counted is bullshit. It’s sleazy gamesmanship, nothing more. “Trends” mean nothing. The counted ballots have no predictive value. There’s no cause-and-effect relationship between those ballots and how people voted in the uncounted ballots. The uncounted ballots could be anything.
Likewise, the GOP’s game of trying to transform the ordinary problems of election administration into election theft also is bullshit and sleazy gamesmanship. There is no such thing as a perfect election. If we’re going to challenge elections for reasons like overstuffed ballot bags, in the absence of any evidence of actual illegal votes, then I say let’s throw out every election that a Republican won. If they’re going to run these bullshit games against our candidates, then fuck ’em, we should do it to their candidates.
I don’t know who won the Reichert – Burner race. Neither do the trolls, or anyone else. And we won’t know until all the ballots have been counted. Until then, there is no victor, and anything anyone says is worthless speculation.
I’m sick and tired of the immature, spoiled-brat, whiny sore-loser behavior of Republicans who throw temper tantrums if they lose. Most humans outgrow that behavior by age 4; even first graders can do better than that. Fuck these childish crybabies. I’m not going to take it anymore.
155 157 rob
rob @ 155: “So I guess name calling is one of those great liberal traditions. Not that it bothers me, I was just sayin. ”
rob @ 157: “…you could scroll up but since you ride the short bus you don’t have to”
rob @ 140: “I forgot that you were in your moms basement.
We’ll just follow the example you set.
Ah…the providential newly found ballots…
Lets see, time running out, legal returns not doing the job, time to run play B…
Rons Sims shoudl resign or be sacked. Its disgracefull to have KCRE run this like a banana republic.
And the sad news is one of those ballots might be mine….
RESIGN!
SHOULD BURNER ASK FOR A RECOUNT?
It’s way too early to decide that. My only purpose here is to explain why a recount might be appropriate if the race finishes very close.
In this election, King County used two different voting systems: The paper ballots that are counted by AccuVote machines (made by Diebold), and electronic voting on Diebold touch screen machines. In 2006, for the first time, King County put “Accessible Voting Unit” touch screen machines in polling places to comply with the federal HAVA law. These machines are supposed to make it possible for disabled people to vote without assistance. The touch screen machines used by King County print a paper trail, which is stored in a sealed canister that is returned to KCRE, not kept by the voter.
Paper ballots counted by AccuVote machines include all of the absentee ballots (about 80% of the county’s total ballots) and about 85% of the poll ballots — on average, about 15% of the poll voters opt to use the touch screen machines.
As we saw in the 2004 recounts, the AccuVote machines don’t count all of the paper ballots. The reason for this is the machines can’t read a ballot if the timing marks along the edge of the ballot are damaged (for example, the ballots become frayed in handling), if there are stray marks on the ballot, or if the voter didn’t completely fill in the oval.
Note: Completely filling in the oval is NOT a legal requirement for voting, and under state law, failure to do so does NOT invalidate the ballot. State law specifies procedures for counting these ballots.
If you review the results of the three counts in the 2004 governor’s race, what you’ll see is virtually no shifting of votes from one candidate to another. Rather, each candidate gained additional votes with each recount. Most of those were ballots the AccuVote machines didn’t read on the first pass, and were either duplicated or hand counted. Those are legal, valid votes that were properly counted.
What a recount does is pick up the legal, valid votes cast by voters who were entitled to vote that were missed in the first machine count because of the mechanical limitations of the AccuVote machines or errors by election officials. These voters are entitled, and deserve, to have their votes counted. A machine recount picks up some of these “missed ballots,” and a hand recount picks up nearly all of them. (There may still be a tiny handulf of misplaced or lost ballots that fell behind the storage rack or got stuck in the bottom of voting machine bases that aren’t found in time for the hand recount, but not enough to change the outcome.)
Let’s say the 8th C.D. race ends up within a few hundred votes, with Reichert in the lead. Burner and/or the Democratic Party would then have to decide whether a recount is worth the expense. If the first result is within a certain margin, they have a legal right to request a recount and no amount of braying by the GOP crybabies changes that fact. It’s the law, so suck on it. — Just because you don’t like the 35 mph speed limit on Green Lake Way doesn’t mean you can drive 60 mph on that street and run over my mother, assholes. — And if the recount changes the result that doesn’t mean Burner, the Democrats, or King County Elections “stole” the election; it means the ballots weren’t counted accurately the first time and this the true result. If you lose a recount, suck on it, crybabies — and go cry somewhere else, my shoulder has better things to do.
How accurate are hand recounts? Absolutely accurate. Not off by even 1 vote. Why? Because every ballot is counted by a Republican and a Democrat, separately, and their tallies have t agree. If they don’t, the counting team has to count them over again. If their tallies still don’t agree, their count is scrapped, and that stack of ballots is taken away from them and given to another counting team. By “stack” I mean precinct; ballots are sorted by precinct and each counting team gets a box containing all the ballots for that precinct. In the 200 governor’s race, each King County precinct was hand counted at least 3 times and some were counted 7 or 8 times, by different teams, and all those counts had to agree or the discrepancy had to be explained. It wasn’t off by even 1 vote.
In other words, the machine recount is more accurate than the original machine count, and the hand recount is more accurate than the machine recount. State law provides for one machine recount and one hand recount, in specified circumstances. That’s all you get — and you DON’T GET A REVOTE under any circumstances. If you don’t like it, suck on it. Or better yet, suck my bunny dick! For a good time, call 1-800-SUCK-ROG.
Any questions?
155
So I guess name calling is one of those great liberal traditions. Commentby rob— 11/11/06@ 10:21 pm
This is a joke, right? The far right started the name-calling 60 years ago, and has been escalating it ever since. After being taken over by the far right, the GOP institutionalized the practice of demonizing liberals and Democrats with every vile epithet they could think of. Now we’re dishing some back. Suck on it, asshole.
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” … newly found ballots …” Commentby righton— 11/12/06@ 7:30 am
What ballots are you talking about, you ignorant and illiterate asshole? Learn how to read a newspaper and understand what it says before you start spewing garbage here. I’m calling you on your wingnut bullshit. WHAT ‘NEWLY FOUND’ BALLOTS ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT, YOU FUCKING LIAR?
“Lets see, time running out, legal returns not doing the job, time to run play B…” Commentby righton— 11/12/06@ 7:30 am
More bullshit from a wingnut bullshitter.
218 (continued)
“Rons Sims shoudl resign or be sacked. Its disgracefull to have KCRE run this like a banana republic. And the sad news is one of those ballots might be mine…. RESIGN!” Commentby righton— 11/12/06@ 7:30 am
Righton, this post puts you squarely in the category of “immature, spoiled-brat, whiny sore-loser Republicans who throw temper tantrums that most humans outgrow by age 4.” Grow up, you fucking retard.
Roger/Ron:
Why would KC introduce a new voting system when they haven’t debugged the old one? No sane business would do that…or if you don’t have business experience, no football team would screw up the heads of their limited IQ workers by adding in the wishbone to their pro set offense.
Roger, did you slip on Freud by accusing me of being a sore loser on this? I think Dave is ahead, so how can i be a sore loser? (my only other national vote was for Maria, then i guess in local races you all won, but who cares).
Now I know why Goldy was awol yesterday; out finding some spare bags to jam some ballots in.
DEMOCRATS PROMISE RESTRAINT IN LEGISLATURE
“OLYMPIA — Washington’s top Democrats, from the governor to the speaker of the House, … reassure voters they won’t use their new mega-majorities in the Legislature to launch expensive programs and raise taxes to pay for them. …
The party has emerged from Tuesday’s elections with its strongest legislative majorities in decades. Ballots are still being counted, but Democrats expect at least a 31-18 seat majority in the state Senate and a 62-36 split in the House. …
“Democratic leaders say their party will act on top issues, including education and health care, but in measured steps. Tax increases, they say, aren’t very realistic in a time of budget surpluses.
“All of us have talked about how our agenda will be thoughtful and not overly ambitious,” Kessler said. …
“Gov. Christine Gregoire said she’s confident Democrats won’t stray too far from a ‘pragmatic, fiscally prudent’ agenda. …
“‘I think you’re going to see a whole different way of investing in education,’ Gregoire said. ‘Not just more money.’
“All the Democratic leaders have the same message: They plan to make progress on multiple fronts and do it without dramatic increases in spending.
“Gregoire said she understands that Democrats will face high expectations from their supporters. But she said the Democrats have done a good job of sticking to a pragmatic agenda. They’ve also made sure to include the Republicans in major legislative deals, she said.
“Last spring, for instance, Democrats reached out to Republicans to pass landmark legislation that is expected to resolve water disputes in Eastern Washington. The two parties also worked together to end a yearslong war between business and labor over unemployment insurance.
“Tom McCabe, head of the Building Industry Association of Washington, a group that has long supported Republicans and their causes, said he’s convinced House Speaker Frank Chopp, D-Seattle, won’t do anything to jeopardize the support he’s won in recent years from business. ‘In my opinion, he’s not a left-wing Seattle liberal,’ McCabe said of Chopp. ‘He’s more of a blue-collar Bremerton Democrat.’
“Traisman, with the Washington Conservation Voters, said interest groups won’t go crazy. ‘There’s a perception out there that all the progressive groups are going to come in with their hands out,’ Traisman said. ‘We’re going to be smart about this … It doesn’t mean we’re to be coming in asking for higher taxes.’ …”
Quoted under Fair Use; for complete article and/or copyright info see http://tinyurl.com/y8hbbw
Roger Rabbit Commentary: Bad news for rightys! Next to borrow-and-spend Republicans, the Democrats will look like conservative bankers. Dino Rossi should find a new hobby, like joining a bowling league or taking up crocheting.
Giving KC the benefit of the doubt, many of those 20,000 ballots will be from precincts outside D8 (like from Seattle, for example). They won’t have a material effect on the outcome.
As for recounts, if DB is within a few hundred votes, I’d ask for one if I were her. But if the margin stays at 3000 or so, like it is now, it would be a waste of her money to do a recount. Assuming all the ballots have been counted once, a recount isn’t going to change thousands of votes… except in one possible case. If it is known there are many thousands of undervotes – ballots that were counted by tallied as “no vote” for D8, indicative of voters who might have tried to vote in D* but not filled in the bubble right (sort of like a hanging chad), then a human recount might change the tally. But this will only have an effect (again) if there are enough undervotes to make a material difference. With Reicharts lead at 3000, there’d have to be many many thousands of such ballots since some will be legitimate “I didn’t vote for anyone in D8” and some will be for Reichart.
224
“Why would KC introduce a new voting system when they haven’t debugged the old one?” Commentby righton— 11/12/06@ 7:56 am
Because it’s required by federal law, dumb shit! I said that above; what part of it didn’t you understand? HAVA was passed by the GOP congress, so if you don’t like it, complain to Dave Reichert about it.
I have an idea.
Everyone who is worried about the vote count – please take the training and work the next election.
Since you are convinced that every person involved is somehow suspect, give them someone that you know is honest, accurate and dependable, that firmly believes in democracy and the responsibility of making sure each person’s vote is counted accurately. Give them you.
224
Roger, did you slip on Freud by accusing me of being a sore loser on this? I think Dave is ahead, so how can i be a sore loser? Commentby righton— 11/12/06@ 7:56 am
I confess I’m at a loss to understand why you’ve started the lying and bitching when Reichert is ahead. Maybe your immature, spoiled-brat, whiny sore-loser temper tantrums that most humans outgrow by age 4 are just part of your psyche. Maybe you’re not 4 years old yet, and are still struggling to outgrow the Terrible Twos. I don’t understand it; it’s your behavior, so perhaps you should explain it to us.
I have to admit it takes some kind of psychotic personality to behave like a sore loser when his candidate is ahead.
What the fuck can you expect from a wingnut? We need to have low expectations where wingnuts are concerned. We can’t hope for more.
226- what the heck is an undervote, except for clever way to add back votes; if they didn’t fill it out right, kill it.
228- anon pollworker. No. I’d guess that spending 12 hours at some precinct would never show the tomfoolery. And since most of voting is by mail, where/what would i do? Go camp at KCRE for a week or 2?
No, i want audited returns, math that adds up, security, etc. Banks know how to do this. Of course their motivation is accuracy, which seems to differ from KCRE (whose motivation is either “let any ballot count” or worse, help Dems by letting extra ballots count”
228
I have an idea. Everyone who is worried about the vote count – please take the training and work the next election. Commentby anonymous pollworker— 11/12/06@ 8:01 am
A great idea in principle, but impractical in application. Stefan lasted less than one day as a pollworker due to his inability to follow his supervisor’s instructions, and he’s smarter than most of the trollfucks. If he can’t hack it in this job, none of them can. Besides, I wouldn’t want any of these trollfucks anywhere near a polling place. It’s bad enough that they’re allowed to drive cars.
232
“226- what the heck is an undervote, except for clever way to add back votes” Commentby righton— 11/12/06@ 8:05 am
No, it’s not a “clever way to add back votes,” you lying fuck. You know nothing. TellTheTruth did not characterize “undervote” correctly. An “undervote” is a race in which the voter did not cast a vote for any candidate. It is a null vote or a zero vote. What TellTheTruth is referring to is votes the AccuVote machine fails to read which nevertheless are votes. State law requires “duplication and enhancement” of ballots where the voter intent is clear but the machine can’t read the ballot for any reason. Sometimes this is because the voter didn’t completely fill in the oval. Washington is a voter-intent state (as is Florida), so this doesn’t invalidate the vote; our state law requires election officials to count that vote. If you don’t like it, suck on it.
roger suggests, blind obiedence and acceptance of the law…you like that, cuz you have election laws that favor your side.
and by the way, i’ll bet on our guys being better able to follow directions, read english, add simple numbers.
How many more screwed up elections do you want us to endure. Come on, greater men than Ron have lost their jobs for lesser mistakes..
Spare me the state law crap.
So tell me, “righton,” has Stefan picked up this ballot-bag story yet; and if he has, is the cabal of mindless wingnut habitues of his blog posting their usual inane crapola about KCRE helping Democrats stuff ballot boxes?
235
roger suggests, blind obiedence and acceptance of the law…you like that, cuz you have election laws that favor your side. Commentby righton— 11/12/06@ 8:23 am
We already know wingnuts have no respect for the law. You don’t need to brag about it.
After the Florida and Ohio fiascos, Republicans are in no position to tell anyone else how to run an election, so stuff it.
232
“228- anon pollworker. No. I’d guess that spending 12 hours at some precinct would never show the tomfoolery. And since most of voting is by mail, where/what would i do? Go camp at KCRE for a week or 2?” Commentby righton— 11/12/06@ 8:05 am
Proof positive that righton is just another wingnut windbag who can’t walk the talk.
It’s not a 12-hour job, righton. You get up at 4:30 a.m., report to your polling place at 6 a.m., and you’re there until 9 p.m. That’s 15 hours on duty, by my count.
234 – right, Rabbit that is what I meant. Human counters can see easily some votes that machines miss due to the voter not filling in the bubble right. Right now in the overall count, these types of voter mistakes are lumped in with ballots where the voter truly chose not to vote in a particular race. A machine recount might pick up some of these, and a human one would pick out more.
Most of these Republican wusses aren’t up to it. That’s not surprising. After all, the whole point of being a Republican is living off other people’s labor so you don’t have to work yourself. Don’t expect Republicans to work a 1-hour day, let alone a 15-hour shift! In most King County polling places, the “Republican” pollworkers are independents who act as “designated batters” for lazy Republicans who think they’re too good to take pollworker jobs for $9.00 an hour. They weasel out of jury duty, too — not to mention their avoidance of military service.
What Republicans want is to get paid for other people’s work.
232 (continued)
How many more screwed up elections do you want us to endure. Commentby righton— 11/12/06@ 8:23 am
In every organization I’ve ever worked in, the person who complained the loudest about a problem was assigned to fix it. Either sign up to work the polls, or shut the fuck up.
Spare me the state law crap. Commentby righton— 11/12/06@ 8:23 am
Law isn’t crap, it’s the law, and there’s nothing I would like better than for you to break it so we can throw your ass in jail.
I’d love to personally shove the law down your throat, and if you don’t like it, suck on it.
I’d happily come out of retirement for an opportunity to prosecute a wingnut asshole like righton.
Prosecutors aren’t supposed to get emotionally involved in cases but in righton’s case it would be hard not to.
Just as I suspected: Over on the pro-terrorism blog, whose webmaster got fired from his pollworker job after 1/2 day for insubordination and violating state law, the jackasses are braying about “Democrats stuffing the ballot box.”
Roger; would have been a good German enforcing bad laws…
hey roger, re Stefan geting fired…
wierd how the left, controls the ballot “machine” (as in cook county), decides who gets to help out.
Big lie that we have independent or even bi-party review of all this; you all fire us when we challenge you
244
Roger; would have been a good German enforcing bad laws… Commentby righton— 11/12/06@ 9:17 am
You don’t get to choose which laws to obey, righton. Nor has anyone given you the right to exempt yourself from any of them. A concept most Republicans have difficulty understanding. But you don’t need to tell me that Republicans are outlaws; we already know that. That’s one of the reasons why the voters kicked your asses on Tuesday.
Righton has the mind of a criminal.
Roger, didn’t that lady disobey the law in Montgomery, Alabama….law said she had to sit in the back…
Hey, where’s the downside for the Democrats in going after waste and fraud in government contracting, particularly in the Iraq war? It’s unpopular with the American public, and to top it off, Halliburton, Parsons and Bechtel have already committed highly publicized mistakes and/or um, “irregularities” in their portion of the reconstruction. Go for it! The public will support it.
OF course the GOP will howl that we’re trying to wreck the GWoT. So what’s new? They said that before we had a majority.
245
wierd how the left … decides who gets to help out. Commentby righton— 11/12/06@ 9:20 am
King County is begging for pollworkers, you lying piece of shit.
And yes, if you ignore your supervisor’s instructions and break the law, you WILL be fired. Not something Stefan should be proud of.
You wingnuts are done, righton. The public has figured you guys out. The cat’s out of the bag. Everyone knows you’re all liars.
HEY RIGHTON. YOU REMIND ME OF WILL BAKER.
YOU’RE “THE INTERNATIONAL MAN OF CONSPIRACY”
248
Roger, didn’t that lady disobey the law in Montgomery, Alabama….law said she had to sit in the back… Commentby righton— 11/12/06@ 9:24 am
How dare you make such a comparison.
I’m not a German rabbit, but righton is a perfect Nazi.
Go crawl back into your Aryan Nations hole, asshole.
Let me explain it to you this way, righton. Rosa Parks broke the law by sitting in front of the bus — and went to jail for it. If Stefan breaks our state’s election law, he should go to jail for it. Why should he get a free pass, when Parks didn’t? Why did Norm Maleng give Lori Sotelo a free pass, when she committed over 100 felonies? Because Maleng’s a partisan hack, that’s why. In Tuesday’s election, there were over 1,500 write-ins in the prosecutor’s race, where Maleng was unopposed on the ballot. That’s an extraordinary number of write-ins (usually there are fewer than a dozen) and shows what the public thinks of Maleng’s favoritism to GOP lawbreakers. Fuck you assholes.
So righton, answer this question. Rosa Parks went to jail for breaking the law, so why shouldn’t Sharansky and Sotello be in jail too? Can you think of one good reason why they should get off, when Parks didn’t?
245 righton
“Big lie that we have independent or even bi-party review of all this”
Really? Tell us what you know about it. I’m guessing it’s near zero.
258
245 righton “Big lie that we have independent or even bi-party review of all this” Really? Tell us what you know about it. I’m guessing it’s near zero. Commentby Daddy Love— 11/12/06@ 9:37 am
That much?
righton — if there’s no GOP review of the election, that’s the GOP’s fault. Talk to them about it.
257..rabbit…does not make sense
2 suicide bombers kill 35 at Iraq police recruit HQ
Bush is president, and the Republicans control Congress. What’s the plan?
262
I guess you don’t think Sharansky and Sotelo did anything illegal, huh? It’s against the law for a black person to ride in the front of the bus, but you just ignore the laws protecting people’s voting rights? Typical wingnut fascist doublespeak.
I’ll bet people wept in Jesusland the day the Klan murderers were sentenced.
Worst.President.Ever.
JOHN @20 YOU ARE STILL A FUCKIN IDIOT.WITH ANY LUCK THEY WILL RECALL YOUR ASS AND SHIP YOU OFF TO IRAQ.BUT WHO WOULD WANT A DICK HEAD NCC WHO IS BRAIN DEAD
“Yo” is a contraction of “yahoo” (as in “trailer park yahoo”) and is properly spelled “Y’o.” Like most wingnuts, Y’o can’t even spell his own fucking name! Hey Y’o, where ya been — just get out on parole?
I mean give me a break you impeached Clinton for having an affair. This idiot has attacked a country for no reason and killed all most 3,000 american solders and 650,000 Iraq’s And that is just the beging of his crimes agiens humanity Commentby The Socialist— 11/11/06@ 12:02 pm
How many times are libruls going to cast forth this lie.
HE WAS IMPEACHED FOR LYING TO A GRAND JURY!
Thank you, For The Clueless. Always a pleasure to read you posts, both thoughtful and passionate. Commentby Tree Frog Farmer— 11/11/06@ 2:16 pm
Whaaaaa ha ha ha ha. He was One Note Johnny: “Pay your fucking bet welsher!”
When did Clueless blog anything useful? Time and entry, Time and entry? Is this the ass-kissing effect of HarsesAss?
Democrats won the popular vote for the Senate by an overwhelming 11.6% margin – 55%/42.4%. Commentby headless lucy— 11/11/06@ 2:09 pm Now that IS interesting – thanks for pointing it out. And it points out something else … we don’t live in a democracy. If voters prefer Democrats to Republicans by 55% to 42%, why do Democrats have only 51 seats in the Senate and Republicans have 49 seats? Seems to me they’re hogging more than their fair share. I think they should voluntarily relinquish 7 of their seats – give 4 to Democrats, and 3 to independents. That’s only fair. Commentby Roger Rabbit— 11/11/06@ 3:32 pm
More Moonbats! in Moonbattic states voted donk! Another reason why the Electoral College is the great equalizer.
I am a Republican – I lie, steal and cheat when I’m not being a family man or a cry baby hypocrit. HAIL HITLER