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That scrolls way too fast.
Yeh your Clinton Buddies did such a good job of picking him up when they had a chance, before 9/11
2 – Another wingnut myth! He’s still out there Gassy – your team is 0 for not hardly trying!
Why? Because he’s worth more to your worthless asses than dead or in jail.
3 – err. worth more doing what he’s doing than dead or in jail.
Have you heard? Hitler was Woodrow Wilson’s fault. Had it not been for boneheaded U.S. intervention in WW I, the Germans wouldn’t have called it quits on Armistace Day, there wouldn’t have been a League of Nations, and the Versailles treaty wouldn’t have been so nasty
And that Churchill! Why, all that talk by him about German rearmament and stuff only made Hitler feel unloved so he had to do what he had to do.
Ditto bin Laden. Nothing inside of him that made him the homicidal mass murderer we see today; he’s completely the product of neo-con thinking. All would be well with the world if Bush/Cheney would but withdraw all troops from Iraq, Afghanistan, Europe, and New Jersey, thus ceding those areas to al Quida influence, control, and Islamic imperialism.
After all, Osama isn’t bad, he’s just misunderstood. Maybe we should, like, send The Darcy to visit him and take notes like she did with the Demo prexy candidates in Vegas; it was, like, a fashion moment the way she commented on Kucinich’s too comfortable, Obama’s too shiny, and Richardson’s too cowboy bootie shoes.
Like, now I know, like, what valley, like, girls do when they, dude, “grow up?” They, like, dude, righteous, run for bitchin’ Congress, like.
The Darcy could give Osama some lovin’ and understanding, and maybe she could convince him to toss a few mill to the netroots since their antics are so in his favor.
That’s it! The Darcy to the ‘Stan (Afghani or Paki, take your pick) to make nice with Sheikh Osama. Wouldn’t take much to turn him into a hunka, hunka burnin’ love, and she’s just the blonde to do it. Makin’ nice with The Darcy over a roast goat in a cave…Who needs 72-virgins when you got that?
The Piper
That stuff scrolled by too fast. Didn’t see Bill O’Reilly and Fox News listed. Did they forget to list them?
5 – Doesn’t writing drivel like that actually make you feel better or something Pooper?
@7…YLB…
Beats writing incomprehensible sentences like yours…
The Piper
Actually, Hitler was Piper’s fault.
@5
After all, Osama isn’t bad, he’s just misunderstood.
Crackpiper, the issue isn’t whether or not Osama is bad, there’s no argument there. The issue is whether or not Osama’s message resonates in the Middle East. If we had a smarter policy concerning Iraq, concerning Israel, concerning Iran and Saudi Arabia, it would be impossible for Osama to convince people in that region that we’re an imperialist power that people need to oppose violently.
If you actually understood Hitler and what allowed him to rise to power, rather than just shouting his name like a mental patient, maybe we all wouldn’t be laughing at you for how poorly you understand all of this. No one is helping Osama Bin Laden and Al Qaeda more than the Bush Administration right now. They are their greatest ally right now.
T Boone Pickens offered 1 million dollars to anyone who could disprove evn one of the Swift Boat ads. John Kerry took him up on it as soon as he heard about the offer, but it seems that Pickens is waffling on the offer. Hopefully, despite Pickens’s attempts to back out, Kerry will move ahead, disprove the charges, and prosecutions will ensue.
http://www.latimes.com/news/pr.....;cset=true
@11
That’s fucking awesome. All of these Swift-boat clowns are all talk, no action. Now that we’ve had each of the last two Democratic candidates only learn how to fight back years after the election, maybe we can nominate someone who knows how to fight back now.
Piper: For an individual like yourself who is so eager to force every powerless person in the world to take “full responsibility” for their situation, you and your ilk seem loathe to take any responsibility for your own evil actions and intent.
If you were true to your philosophy, you would blame Adolph Hitler for what he did, not Woodrow Wilson.
But that’s not how you work, is it? And whose fault is that?
Jimmy Carter’s?
Pipers’ right on.
Whatta you lefties gonna do: Give Osama a little love?
He wants you dead. That’s DEAD! Doesn’t want your peace, love and understanding. Just DEAD!
Y’see that’s what Islam is about: Kill ’em all. Submission. The word doesn’t mean “peace”. Doesn’t mean “love”. It means either you all submit to Islam or you die. There is no other option.
Getting out of that part of the world ain’t enough. Americans tried hiding all through the 1930’s rather than getting involved. Hitler would have been here by the mid 1940’s. If America gets out of the middle East, or quits supporting Israel, then the Muslims will be here. Killing us on our soil. Personally, I’d rather do it there.
Hey. “Submission”? Isn’t that what Democrats want us all to do to the gov’t anyways? Maybe we’ll all wind up going Muslim. Or democrat. Either case: DEAD.
@13…HL…
Carter…funny you should mention the root cause of the Iranian Ayatollah’s…Him and his doofus invitation to the Shah to die in the U.S. fomented the Iranian hostage crisis.
And his stupid wink, wink, wink’s to Leonid Brezhnev that Uncle Eyebrows took as an implicit OK to invade Afghanistan followed by the “make America look weak and inept” boycott of the 1980 Summer Olympics were typically Jimmy Carter…Can’t see the forest for the trees, then screw over the innocent while giving the guilty a pass.
Modern day version thereof is his fawning over Palestinian thugs and extremists while criticizing our best friend in the region, Israel. What a pompous ass!
And @10…Lee…
We’ve gone down the WW II garden path before, you and I, and it’s pretty clear you (1) have never studied the causes of that war closely, (2) ignore the considered opinions of those who have, and (3) do your “go down with the sinking ship” shtick of never opening your mind to let in new knowledge, insights, and clear thinking to displace the dross of whatever passes for thoughtful understanding of history.
As it relates to today’s events, you might try a quick read through Ron Silver’s Silver Bullet blog at http://pajamasmedia.com/xpress.....how_ab.php
Of course, Ron will drive you nuts because his insights shred your cliches. Oh, well…life’s a bitch.
Islamo-facism resonates in the Middle East in large measure because it’s a way to project upon someone else responsibility and causation for misery. Like Hitler blaming the Jews for Germany’s woes, the bin Laden’s of the world blame America and the West for the shortcomings inherent in a culture that’s still stuck in the Middle Ages.
A number of European countries are now fighting back against the debasing of their cultures and politics that both sympathize with bin Laden, et al, and serve as breeding grounds for terrorists and violence.
Remember, the 19 of 9/11 weren’t oppressed types, they were middle-class, well educated, and motivated by a fanatical hatred of anything that wasn’t exactly like themselves. Save, that is, for strippers and booze in Florida gentlemen’s clubs, something they seemed to have a bizarre proclivity toward.
What do you offer? The Darcy and her Vegas doodlings…The lot of you need some fresh air and fresh thinking…My mission is to provide it to you…No thanks necessary…
The Piper
10
Of course, Piper is not interested at all in a substantive discussion of the real present issues, including, aparently, any discussion of how to capture or otherwise neutralize OBL, or what to do about the fact that our actions are enhancing AQ efforts to recruit. Instead he/she wants to falsely characterize “liberals” as sympathizing with OBL, because that’s just what he/she does.
@16…DL…
Then lets hear your brilliant plan on how to ferret him out of the cave in PAKISTAN in which he’s holed up.
You’ve got cliches and snide asides, but I don’t hear any alternatives or real-world-based suggestions.
That there hasn’t been a terrorist attack against the U.S. since 9/11 is evidence that bin Laden’s been neutralized at least as far as the U.S. is concerned. Increasingly, the U.S. and other nations are going after al-Quida cells and operations – thanks in large measure to U.S. intelligence efforts, the Patriot Act, and aggressive interrogation of captured al-Quida operatives like Kalid Sheikh Mohammed – with success, and that effort needs to continue unabated until al-Quida is crushed.
Nailing Ossama’s do-rag on the barn door won’t be an excuse to call it a day. There’s plenty more where he came from, created not by the U.S., but by the perverse thinking and culture in which they live – that radical branch of Islam that lusts after blood and death.
Still waiting for your plan…
The Piper
A number of European countries are now fighting back against the debasing of their cultures and politics that both sympathize with bin Laden, et al, and serve as breeding grounds for terrorists and violence.
That sounds an awful lot like “get rid of those dirty brown people and all will be well.”
17
I don’t think the word “cliche” means what you think it means.
@19…DL…
In the dictionary next to the definition of “cliche” are HA Happy Hooligan talking points. Examples thereof, don’t you know…
The Piper
@18…DL…
No…what it says is tolerance is OK, but fanaticism isn’t. Pretty sure the Danes aren’t interested in turning Denmark into an Islamic Republic, despite the best efforts of many in their immigrant community.
The Piper
Daddy Love…
Still waiting for your plan…Or do you have to consult with your masters first?
Any time…
The Piper
The lot of you need some fresh air and fresh thinking…My mission is to provide it to you…
i.e. regurgitate discreditd bullshit from Krauthammer, The Weekly Standard and National Review.
The subject of this thread is bin Laden. He committed his atrocity on Bush’s watch and Bush HAS FAILED to catch him.
So what do you braindead wingers conclude: 1) it was Bill Clinton’s fault and 2) We got Saddam!!!
Saddam who had NOTHING to do with 9/11 (not that almost all of you didn’t believe that at one time or another). Yeah he’s your booby prize and he’s hanged (watch the video!) and all but forgotten now.
“get rid of those dirty brown people and all will be well.”
Isn’t that the populist right wing thinking in THIS country? Gee Pooper, why not let illegals have driver’s licenses then they can legally drive around to do the jobs that cheap labor conservatives in your crowd employ them to do?
Who I believe break the law to employ them by the way.
That there hasn’t been a terrorist attack against the U.S. since 9/11 is evidence that bin Laden’s been neutralized at least as far as the U.S. is concerned.
Why do you propagandists always ignore the anthrax attacks in this nation? You see, you’re just dead flat wrong in your initial point. Not to mention that terrorist attacks worldide have more than tripled since 2001, although State stopped releasing reports on attack counts.
Increasingly, the U.S. and other nations are going after al-Quida cells and operations – thanks in large measure to U.S. intelligence efforts, the Patriot Act, and aggressive interrogation of captured al-Quida operatives like Kalid Sheikh Mohammed – with success, and that effort needs to continue unabated until al-Quida is crushed.
How are we “going after” AQ? By sending Musharraf $200 million annually and his military $100 million monthly in the form of direct cash transfers for Musharraf to arrest and imprison his political enemies and to fund the Pakistani military that refuses to go into the tribal areas where OBL is hiding? Sounds like a prettty typical Republican plan.
Hey, though, I have to appreciate the code laguage in which you couch your advocacy of torture against those merely accused of “terrorist” activities. And before you accuse me of favoring KSM, I refer to the hundreds or thousands of other quite possibly innocent captives we either torture personally in or worldwide netowrk of secret unaccountable prisons or reneder to proxy torturers on our behalf.
Nailing Ossama’s do-rag on the barn door won’t be an excuse to call it a day.
The appropriate time to argue this is when someone actually, you know, proposes ending counter-terrorist activities upon the capture and/or death of OBL. Absent this, you are just tossing out yet another straw man. Oh, and that “rag” comment is another example of your thinly-veiled racism.
There’s plenty more where he came from, created not by the U.S., but by the perverse thinking and culture in which they live – that radical branch of Islam that lusts after blood and death.
Is your apparent ignorance of the incredible diversity not only among Muslims in general but also between the many different terrorist groups and their aims and capabilities a sign of willful stupidity or of innocence and naivete?
As for someone somewhere “lusting after blood and death” maybe so, but (a) living in Issaquah my chances of beign harmed in a terroist incident is considerably less (orders of magnitude less) that dying in s traffic accident, and (b) good police work within the civil rights protections afforded by search warrants are what have foiled terror attacks thus far, while the Republican obsession with massive military operations, missile defense (remember 9/10?), and “killing their leaders and converting them to Christianity” have made both that blood lust more intense and weakened our defense capability.
Still waiting for your plan…
Here’s one-tie our aid to Pakistan to specific counter-terrorist goals, measure progress toward those goals, and curtail aid if progress does not accur. You know, kind of like the OPPOSITE of what we do in Iraq.
Or this http://www.americanprogress.or.....eport.html
The Piper
Ron Paul Supporters Linked to Funny Money
If you think Rep. Ron Paul’s presidential candidacy doesn’t attrack whackjobs, read this article:
“By Alec MacGillis
“The Washington Post
“WASHINGTON — The ardent supporters of Rep. Ron Paul … got word Friday of a … federal raid on a company that was selling thousands of coins marked with the craggy visage of their hero.
“Federal agents Thursday raided the Evansville, Ind., headquarters of the National Organization for the Repeal of the Federal Reserve Act and Internal Revenue Code (NORFED), an organization of ‘sound-money’ advocates that for the past decade has been selling a private currency it calls ‘Liberty Dollars.’
“The organization, which is critical of the Federal Reserve, has repeatedly clashed with the federal government, which contends that the money the group produces is illegal.
“The organization says it has put into circulation more than $20 million in Liberty Dollars — coins and paper certificates it contends are backed by silver and gold stored in Idaho that are far more reliable than a U.S. dollar and are accepted for use by a nationwide underground economy.
“NORFED officials said Friday that the six-hour raid occurred just as its six employees were mailing out the first batch of 60,000 ‘Ron Paul dollars,’ copper coins sold for $1 to honor the candidate, who is a longtime advocate of abolishing the Federal Reserve. The group says it has shipped about 10,000 silver Ron Paul dollars that sold for $20 and about 3,500 of the copper $1 coins. But it said the agents seized more than 50,000 of the copper coins — more than 2 tons — plus smaller amounts of the silver coins and gold and platinum Ron Paul dollars that sell for $1,000 and $2,000.”
Quoted under fair use; for complete story and/or copyright info see http://seattletimes.nwsource.c.....ins17.html
Roger Rabbit Commentary: Guess what, it’s ILLEGAL to circulate PRIVATE CURRENCY!! Uncle Sam has a monopoly on the nation’s money supply. Meanwhile, the official currency is tumbling down the slippery slope of devaluation toward worthlessness because the Bush regime can’t be trusted with the piggy bank.
Still waiting for your plan…
One essential component of any plan is to rule out invading countries that had nothing to do with the crime thereby avoiding a two trillion dollar liability when all is said and done.
The National Counter-terrorism center reports that 14,322 terrorist incidents occurred in 2006, 10,887 in 2005, and 3258 in 2004 (when they were created and their tracking DB began).
Um, notice any trend? Why, it’s the Republicans’ rousing success, of course! That torture must really work.
http://wits.nctc.gov/SimpleSearch.do
Search Criteria (Simple Search):
Incident-IncidentDate Is Between “01/01/2006” And “12/31/2006” AND Incident-EventType Includes Any Of [ “Armed Attack”, “Arson/Firebombing”, “Assault”, “Barricade/Hostage”, “Bombing”, “CBRN Attack”, “Hijacking”, “Kidnapping”, “Near Miss/Non Attack Incident”, “Threat”, “Vandalism” ]
Democrats Thwart Bush The Welsher’s Recess Appointments
“WASHINGTON — Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., in a showdown with the White House over executive-branch nominations, Friday refused to formally adjourn the chamber for a planned two-week Thanksgiving break, thwarting President Bush’s ability to make recess appointments.
“Reid employed a rarely used parliamentary tactic … [that] blocks Bush’s ability to make so-called recess appointments, which would allow the appointees to serve out the remainder of Bush’s term.
“Reid accused Bush of moving slowly on Democratic nominees for a variety of bipartisan oversight agencies, such as the Federal Communications Commission. Reid said he had made good on a promise to move several key Bush nominees, including new Attorney General Michael Mukasey, but Bush has not officially nominated some Democratic selections for the bipartisan commissions.”
Quoted under fair use; for complete story and/or copyright info see http://seattletimes.nwsource.c.....eid17.html
Roger Rabbit Commentary: Dealing with Republicans is like dealing with a shady contractor: You don’t dare release progress payments until the work is completed, inspected, and found to be satisfactory. Otherwise, you’ll never get what you paid for. And every deal you cut with Republican welshers has to go through escrow, because they’re a bunch of lying crooks.
From the CAP report:
Of course, any good Republican knows that “promoting democracy” is only for countries we invade, and not really even then.
test
I have an idea. Why don’t we pay Sunni insrugents in Iraq not to attack us, giving them money to use for weapons, even though they tell us that they will soon wage war against the government of Iraq?
What am I saying? Something that stupid would never work. Who would be idiot enough to try that?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....id=topnews
Authorities Investigating GOP Push Polling
They’re at it again — anonymous callers who carefully conceal who they’re working for call potential voters to peddle negative campaigning disguised as surveys; and when they’re caught, they lie-and-deny. Brought to you by lying, dishonest, WingNuts (TM) Inc.:
“Iowa, New Hampshire voters recoil at anti-Romney polls
“By David Lightman
“McClatchy Newspapers
“WASHINGTON — Rose Kramer was at her Dubuque, Iowa, home … when a pollster called and … [a]fter a few polite questions … started saying unflattering things about Mitt Romney.
“In another part of Iowa, Ralph Watts got a similar call …. Are you aware, the caller asked, that Mormons consider the Book of Mormon superior to the Bible? Would that make you more or less likely to vote for Romney?
“On Friday, the calls, which lit up the phone lines this week in two key early voting states, Iowa and New Hampshire, became … the subject of an investigation by the New Hampshire Attorney General’s Office. …
“McCain denied having anything to do with the calls, saying ‘it is disgraceful, it is outrageous and it is a violation, we believe, of New Hampshire law.’ …
“New Hampshire has a … law requiring anyone who engages in push polling to tell the person being surveyed if the call is ‘being made on behalf of, in support of or in opposition to’ a candidate. They also must identify the candidate and give the phone number where the call originated. …
“The calls reportedly were placed by Western Wats, an Orem, Utah, survey firm. A spokesman for the company would not comment on whether it made the calls. However, its client services director, Robert Maccabee, said, ‘Western Wats has never, currently does not, nor will it ever engage in push polling.’ …
There was no clear evidence … that any [Romney] opponent was behind the polls.”
Quoted under fair use; for complete story and/or copyright info see http://seattletimes.nwsource.c.....oll17.html
Roger Rabbit Commentary: Whoever is behind it, they’ve got money, because this kind of activity isn’t cheap. It might not be a rival candidate; in fact, it’s probably not. There are plenty of well-heeled hate groups like the Swift Boat Liars out there.
all my comments are going into the filter this morning
or perhaps they’re being intercepted by a hacker
rightwingers are terrified of Roger Rabbit
Here’s what Iraq is all about now: the corruption.
Here’s a little snips of right wing lackey journalist Michael Totten dispatch from Baghdad:
Willie and Larry work construction for private companies in harsh places like Iraq and Afghanistan. They are both well-rounded individuals with Red State tastes and political views and a worldliness and cosmopolitanism that surpasses that of most people who live in the Blue States. They aren’t allowed to tell me how much money they make, but it is many hundreds of thousands of dollars per year.
“You get hooked on making money,” Willie said. “You think you can do it for one year or two, then quit, but it’s like a drug. Or like when you get one tattoo – all of a sudden you want two tattoos. My wife keeps saying, come on, you can do it for just one more year.”
“My wife would hate it if I was out here for years,” I said.
“You get vacation,” Larry said. “You get more vacation than French people. 21 days every four months. And you don’t have to pay taxes if you take your vacation outside the U.S. Your wife can meet you in the Bahamas.”
That’s what I pay my taxes and my kids will pay their taxes for – to make right wing Willie and Larry rich, to enjoy more vacation than I’ve ever seen in my lifetime and in the Bahamas to boot. Nice work if you can get it.
The Iraq war is a looting expedition borne on the backs of the American taxpayer and the poor slobs who’ve died and returned from this turd with missing limbs and messed up heads.
It’s got to stop – like three years ago stop
@34 Iraq has always been about corruption. I’ve never believed it was about anything else. Not even the oil. Sure, the Busheviks would love to get their hands on Iraq’s oil, but what this war mainly does is create opportunities for well-connected friends of the administration to stand behind pickup trucks in a dusty far-off land where no pesky journalists are present (no live ones, anyway) and hold open a duffle bag while a U.S. official shovels American money into it. That’s what American kids are dying for, to keep GOP Corruption, Inc. (TM) in business.
Have you ever wondered why so many journalists have been killed in Iraq? And why we hear credible reports of U.S. troops deliberately shooting at them? You know damn well something like that doesn’t happen by accident; someone orders it. Someone high up, someone in a position to guarantee the soldiers who fire on unarmed civilian journalists won’t be prosecuted, because soldiers won’t do that unless they can say “we were following orders.” An order like that has to come from a general officer, and generals won’t give orders like that unless they come from the highest civilian authorities …
Piper @ 15: “Islamo-facism resonates in the Middle East in large measure because it’s a way to project upon someone else responsibility and causation for misery.”
This is fairly obvious, but begs the question of the underlying causation for the misery. There is no doubt that the harsh peace of Versailles contributed to the virulent German nationalism that gave rise to Hitler amidst the economic collapse of the Great Depression.
Similarly, the West’s history of colonialism, and overt interference in the ME has contributed mightily to its current misery.
The conservative response, as always, is both shortsighted and wrongheaded. Witness indeed the fantasmagorical historical “analysis” presented by Piper in first couple of paragraphs of post #15 (it’s all Carter’s fault), the same kind of analysis that he so mocked earlier in post #5.
Conservatism, a political disease.
In March 2006, USA Today reported,
“[T]he multinational group Reporters Without Borders said 86 journalists and news assistants have been killed in Iraq …. By contrast, … 63 journalists were killed in Vietnam during the 22-year period of the war there.”
http://www.usatoday.com/news/w.....cism_x.htm
Oh and there’s more!
“Last year in Afghanistan,” Larry said, “I waited a week for a flight. Choppers flew in and out all day every day. I showed up on the LZ for every flight, had my gear ready, and kept getting bumped. A whole week, just to fly one from place to another. At least I was on the clock. We might be here a while.”
Right wing Larry with “red state tastes” sits on his ass for a whole week on high six figures salary paid for courtesy of the American taxpayer.
Yes, nice work if you can get it.
@14: “Y’see that’s what Islam is about: Kill ‘em all.”
Truly pathetic. This is par for the course for your political allies, Piper. Aren’t you proud?
“OPEC blunder reveals debate on weak dollar
“By SEBASTIAN ABBOT
“The Associated Press
“RIYADH, Saudi Arabia — The accidental airing of a closed OPEC session Friday provided a surprise glimpse into a sensitive debate over the weakening U.S. dollar, with Saudi Arabia’s foreign minister warning that even talking publicly about the currency’s decline could further hurt its value. …
“Oil is priced in dollars on the world market, and its depreciation has concerned oil producers because it has contributed to rising crude prices and has eroded the value of their dollar reserves.”
Quoted under fair use; for complete story and/or copyright info see http://seattletimes.nwsource.c.....lar17.html
Roger Rabbit Commentary: Most Americans think the price of oil is going up, when what’s really happening is the value of American money is going down. Crude prices are relatively stable — if you’re paying for oil with a stable currency.
Over the last several days, I’ve posted a number of comments about the devaluation of the dollar, because it’s a crucial issue that’s largely flying under the media radar and escaping the attention of the American public.
The Bushevik regime tells us “official” inflation is under 3%. Behind those phony statistics is a colossal whopper of a lie. Anyone who has shopped for housing, food, or fuel in the last 3 or 4 years knows the U.S. inflation rate isn’t any goddam 3 percent! It feels more like the Nixon-Ford inflation of the Vietnam period, if not worse.
What’s going on the economy is that homes aren’t suddenly worth 2 or 3 times as much. Yes, fuel and food have become more expensive in real terms, but most of the price increases have been done to monetary inflation, not real inflation.
What’s going on is the dollar is losing value like crazy. A $200,000 house that’s now a $400,000 isn’t suddenly twice as valuable; your money is suddenly worth half as much. Hard assets that tend to hold their intrinsic value go up in nominal price during periods when the currency is rapidly losing its purchasing power. And that’s exactly what’s happening under Bush’s mismanagement of the economy.
These things don’t happen by accident. They’re a result of planned, crafted, deliberate, government policies. Bush doesn’t want you to know the real cost of his warmongering, corruption, spending, and tax-breaks-for-billionaires. So the “official” inflation rate is kept low through manipulation (and outright lying). But there’s no concealing the fact your hard-earned dollars buy a hell of a lot less these days.
The devaluation of the dollar is a tax you’re paying for the Republican’s financial profligacy. It’s a tax on the stored value of your savings and financial investments. It’s a tax on your dollar-denominated wages. Every time you pay $3.29 for a 9 oz. frozen TV dinner that used to cost $1.99 when it weighed 14.5 oz. a few years ago, you’re paying a tax for Republican warmongering, greed, and corruption.
Think about that the next time you pump $3.50 gas or pay $50 for one small bag of groceries.
most of my comments are getting dumped this morning, so I’m outta here until this site is functional again
bottom line on Osama:
Reagan/Bush1 gave him training and armed him because he was anti-soviet.
Clinton tried to go after him – but the republicans claimed that Clinton was diverting attention from Monica.
Bush2 decided that the warnings, from the Clinton adminstration, that Bin Laden was dangerous should be ignored – because they came from the Clinton adminstration (an example of the deep thinking of republicans).
Bush2: Used the sympathy and worldwide agreement after 9/11 to go after Bin Laden in afghanistan – BUT stopped the pursuit of bin Laden when he was trapped because Iraq (which was no threat to us) was more important. bush didn’t use US troops in bora bora and istead allowed bin Laden to escape. Bush also used up all the international good will by going unprovoked into Iraq and twisting the arms of countries to be part of the coalition of the unwilling.
Bottom line:
We (the US) are now held in lower regard in europe and the arab world than ever before. Our military is stretched too thin to counter real threats. Bush has said that bin Laden is not important – but we sure did play up Saddam Hussein’s capture.
Bush and his false war (and republican enablers) have made us less safe. Bush missed the chance to get bin laden. Clinton went after bin Laden (by the way, the false canard that clinton let bin laden go is just that – false – The CIA could not target him precisely enough and clinton did try to hit him at least once (to Republican howls about diverting attention from Monica)).
37
Conservatives, of course, being so much smarter than the inaccurately-labeled “Islamo-fascists” as they are, blame Muslims–that is, the ones we aren’t propping up with hundreds of millions of dollars in blank checks while they refuse to help track down the murderers of Americans. God knows they aren’t to blame for anything.
And don’t we all know what a loon Jimmy Carter is for urging a settlement to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, still the major Mideast flash point and one of the largest obstacles to the US being well-regarded among Muslims. Well, that and our illegal and murderous invasion and occupation of Iraq, but that’s hardly worth mentioning.
Hey, how many Nobel Peace Prizes do you think Piper has? I’m waiting…
Why was’t David Petraeus nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize? I report, you decide.
Hi all,
Am I late for the party? dang!
Just wanted to say that it would have been very hard to get to a treaty at the end of WWI that would have been as hard on the Germans as Versailles was had the US stayed out like it should have.
Both sides were totally exhausted in all ways and the line between the two sides had stabilized at the point the US came in and essentially ruined that precarious balance of exhaustion.
So the idea that Hitler would not have risen (in a more stable and prosperous Germany) had we not invaded in WWI is very, very, credible.
Thanks all, new left conservative #1
Piper and friends-
I’ve tried this before and it’s been a thread stopper. Bush’s INITIAL push in Afganistan was brilliant. Yes, I used the words Bush and brilliant in the same sentence without irony. Use of local opposition (Northern Alliance) backed by US forces worked to a tee. Had he remained focussed on rebuilding Afganistan and catching Bin Laden, the world would be a different, and safer place. Yes, Saddam was a very bad man.
But consider a secure, democratic Afghanistan. US forces stronger, not weaker. Many more nations supporting us rather than against us. Much greater leverage against Iran.
The Iraqi adventure has been an unmitigated disaster.
46 and 47
Yes, if things were different they would definitely not be the same.
@46: “Am I late for the party? dang!”
Yes. It has been agreed by most that Piper was responsible for the rise of Hitler.
As to your analysis, I find it of little use. However, if you wish to indulge in historical “what ifs”, it is reasonable to conject that Germany could have won WWI in the absence of American material support, if not direct participation. After all, Russia had been knocked out of the war, and the final German offensive in 1918 may well have carried the day.
But this discussion reminds me of the days of yore when republicans claimed that Democrats “started wars” and the GOP “finished” them. This was in the period after Ike’s glorious “victory” (tie) in Korea, building as it did on the even more magnificent victory of McKinley over Spain (celebrated much as we always celebrate the victories of schoolyard bullies).
Since then it has been a decidedly mixed bag. We have witnessed the courageous victory of Nixon and Kissinger in Viet Nam and the inspiring victory of George W. Bush in Iraq.
The GOP has utterly failed to grasp the meaning of their abject cowardice in the 1930’s. However, they do projection pretty well.
One of my points is that the decision-making to this point has been clearly flawed, and therefore not to be relied upon in the future.
@2 Yeh, you guys have had SIX AND A HALF YEARS to pick him up, which you haven’t despite $1.5 trillion spent.
Republican = incompetent
@46 You don’t know a fucking thing about WWI. The Allies would have lost without U.S. intervention.
It really was the prospect of limitless U.S. reinforcements that convinced the German General Staff they couldn’t win, and caused them to persuade the Kaiser to sue for peace. Were they already beaten by 1917? That’s highly debatable. The Germans certainly didn’t look beaten in late 1917 and early 1918. Their 1918 offensives came very close to breaking the Allied line. The French were exhausted and the British couldn’t field enough men to hold the line by themselves. The American reinforcements were crucial. But, more than anything, the American intervention unhinged the Germans’ belief in the possibility of victory, and led the Kaiser to conclude “the war would have to be ended.”
In Germany, World War I was followed by hyperinflation and economic collapse, which made possible Hitler’s rise.
In the U.S., the Clinton administration was followed by dollar devaluation, which Republicans perhaps hope will cause enough economic instability and inflation to make possible the rise of a fascist dictatorship here.
#25 Daddy Love says
One of the benefits of living in a white community. What is it, 88% white?
59
Oh no, nothing as low as that.
But I am interested in what you are saying. Are you saying that living in a mixed community (say, Beacon Hill) makes one more likely to be harmed in a terrorist attack? Really? Terrorists are more likely to attack mixed-race low-income residential neighborhoods? Heavily white residential neighborhoods suffer fewer terrorist attacks? Whites are inherently law-abiding while the dirty brown people have criminal tendencies?
On what do you base whatever your opinion really is whenever you choose to reveal it?
I should point out that a couple of years ago I nearly died in a traffic accident.
Finish this sentence: In 2005 in Washington state there were 647 traffic fatalities (http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/p.....810628.pdf) and __________ deaths from terrorist attack.
Paraphrased from Atrios:
But what does Murtha know? He’s just a 37-year Marine veteran, former Parris Island DI, and recipient of the Bronze Star with Combat “V”, two Purple Hearts and the Vietnamese Cross of Gallantry, all earned during his service in Vietnam.
Roger Rabbit says:
@2 Yeh, you guys have had SIX AND A HALF YEARS to pick him up, which you haven’t despite $1.5 trillion spent.
Republican = incompetent
So Roger you suggest we sell bumper stickers “Free Terrorist buy Prayer Rugs”! Oh; that will go over great here in Seattle with Osama living in Green Lake and Goldy conducting prayers. With $1.5 trillion you can buy a lot of prayer rugs and build Grand Mosque right ther in your back yard. Yep five times a day you get to run out off your hole and pray on your new silk prayer rug. Now that picture would be worth some money.
Oh, I forgot. We only invade countries we know don’t have weapons of mass destruction.
Whoops. Wrong blog.
So, Al Jazeera has asked the rabid, rioting Leftists in Olympia for “broadcast quality” footage of their vandalism, etc. Need we say more?
@62 Atrios seems to have trouble understanding cause-and-effect relationships. He probably blames global warming on Bill Clinton.
@63 This is the result of shutting down all the state asylums for the insane.
Hi all,
Thanks, I disagree completely, but regardless, aren’t youall just making my point? If WWI had been won by Germany, there wouldn’t have been a WWII or a Nazi movement in Germany.
We should stay out of foreign wars. Now in Iraq, the pro-war forces are saying, “We only need to spend x more American lives so that the thousands who’ve already died over there won’t have been in vain.
That’s such a beautiful argument, but only if x = 0.
Glad this fun party is still hopping!
Best wishes everyone,
new left conservative #1
Some people really do need to be institutionalized, and flakey klake is one of them.
@69 You’d probably like a Europe run by monarchies. You’d probably like a monarchy in the U.S., too, as long as you could be part of the hereditary nobility.
World War I was started by monarchists and ended by revolutionaries in the streets of Russia and Germany. Ten million dead in the trenches. Thanks for nothing, conservative nationalists. All future generations spit on you.
YLB, Hey right wing Larry sounds like any Sound Transit
employee. Nice work if you can get it.