There are actually ten different versions of this ad, each targeted to specific geographic communities. This is the kind of smart campaign that helped defeat I-912, by informing voters what the money raised specifically does for them. Makes it a lot harder to defeat the measure with broad generalities. And you know… lies.
Can’t Bring Yourself to Type the Word “Ass”?
Eager to share our brilliant political commentary and blunt media criticism, but too genteel to link to horsesass.org? Well, good news, ladies: we also answer to HASeattle.com, because, you know, whatever. You're welcome!
These are good ads and upon reflection, I’ve decided to vote for this package. The RTID sucks and fumbled and bumbled through its task, but at least there is a reasonable package before us. Waiting for a perfect package or an all transit package is just not a practical solution in a region that has done as poorly in transportation planning and funding as this one.
Well, much as I hate to say it (I’m a member), I think MoveOn’s political arm fucked up with their ad in the NY Times. The GOP is absolutely salivating to tie this to the Democrats and you can bet that’s the way it will be remembered. GG MoveOn!
You can go to the MoveOn website to see the ad itself (and its supporting cites).
Not helpful.
-OM
Well this ad is misleading.
RTID does not replace the 520 bridge, it only makes a down payment. A down payment on what 520 bridge? WSDOT is marketing a 4+2 bridge which is simply adding an HOV lane in each direction. In my opinion that is not responsible planning.
Once again we are asked to add on layer upon layer of taxes for undefined projects.
@2
I wouldn’t say to all democrats, just the far left, netroot base of the party…
These ads are deceptive, especially when it relates to Seattle taxes. Billions of dollars of RTID taxes would go over the lake to build new highway lanes in the I-405 corridor. “Money raised will be spent in that community.” My Ass.
Friday, September 7, 2007 – 12:00
Arctic ice cap to melt faster than feared, scientists say
By Sandi Doughton
Seattle Times science reporter
In a year when the Arctic ice cap has shrunk to the lowest level ever recorded, a new analysis from Seattle scientists says global warming will accelerate future melting much more than previously expected.
About 40 percent of the floating ice that normally blankets the top of the world during the summer will be gone by 2050, says James Overland, an oceanographer at the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration’s Pacific Marine Environmental Laboratory. Earlier studies had predicted it would be nearly a century before that much ice vanished.
“This is a major change,” Overland said. “This is actually moving the threshold up.”
The finding, to be published Saturday in Geophysical Research Letters, adds to a growing body of evidence that the ecosystem around the North Pole is rapidly transforming, says Mark Serreze, of the National Snow and Ice Data Center at the University of Colorado. He goes even further than Overland, predicting the Arctic Ocean will be completely ice-free in summer by 2030.
“If you had asked me a few years ago, I would have said it wouldn’t happen until 2070 or 2100,” said Serreze, who was not involved in Overland’s project.
Even a 40 percent loss of ice would be devastating to ice-dependent animals such as walruses and ringed seals, said Overland, who shared his data with federal officials considering an endangered-species listing for polar bears.
Gray whales will suffer if the ice-loving crustaceans they feed on disappear. But some commercially important fish species, like pollock and salmon, could thrive in warmer water — a possible boon for the Seattle-based fishing fleet that plies Alaska’s Bering Sea. There are also hints, though, that the disappearance of ice would favor predators that undermine fisheries, Overland said.
Shipping will benefit if the Northwest Passage across the Canadian Arctic melts out each summer — as it did for the first time this year.
An international power struggle already is under way as governments rush to stake claims on territory, oil deposits and mineral resources that will become accessible as the Arctic ice cover shrinks.
A Russian submarine planted a flag on the sea bed under the North Pole this summer. Canada announced plans for military bases along the Northwest Passage, which it claims as sovereign territory. President Bush insists the route is an international waterway.
“There will be winners and losers,” Overland said.
Melting of the Arctic ice cap does not contribute to sea level rise. Floating ice, like that around the North Pole, already displaces water, like ice cubes in a glass of tea. When the ice melts, sea level remains unchanged, though salinity can be altered. The major sea level rise associated with global warming would come if the massive ice sheets covering Greenland and Antarctica melt and flow into the oceans.
Overland and Muyin Wang, a meteorologist at NOAA’s Joint Institute for the Study of the Atmosphere and Ocean at the University of Washington, analyzed 20 computer climate models used by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC). The international body issues periodic assessments of global warming and its future impacts. The IPCC’s 2001 assessment predicted major Arctic ice loss wouldn’t occur until 2100.
The Seattle team used the computer models to predict historic ice levels, and compared the results with actual measurements. They eliminated about half the models because they didn’t do a good job of matching the data. Then, they used the best models to look ahead.
Their findings echoed those of the IPCC’s most recent report, issued earlier this year. But the new results are more solid because the unreliable models were weeded out.
“We’ve reduced the uncertainty,” Overland said. “We’re absolutely going to lose major ice before 2050.”
But even the best models can’t account for the rapid changes seen over the past few years, Serreze pointed out.
In an average August between 1979 and 2000, the Arctic Ocean was covered with about 3 million square miles of sea ice, according to the National Snow and Ice Data Center. By Labor Day this year, the total had shrunk to a little more than half that, shattering the previous record low set in 2005.
“Usually when you break a record it’s by a few percentages,” said William Chapman, who monitors the Arctic for the University of Illinois, and was one of the first to point out this year’s “shocking” melt. “This year we blew right through it.”
Scientists blame the rapid retreat on a combination of natural weather fluctuations and global warming. Nature could conceivably cool things off again in the short term, Overland said. But over the long run, global warming will dominate.
And because greenhouse gases linger in the atmosphere for up to five decades, the melting will intensify even if emissions from cars, power plants and industries are slashed dramatically.
“I’m afraid to say a lot of the impacts we’re going to see in the next 30 to 40 years are pretty much already established,” Overland said.
Reductions in greenhouse gases could begin to have a moderating effect by the next century.
Ever heard of copyright?
@7 ever hear of fair use?
What a bizarre time to spend billions of dollars building new highway capacity. We know that global warming is upon us, and that we have to start making cuts now. Not tomorrow, not in 50 years. Now.
I’m voting “no”. As much as I like ST2, I can’t vote for a package that is this bad for us and our home. When I’m done voting no on RTID, I’m going to call Gregoire and my legislators and ask for ST2 on a 2008 ballot.
7 and 8
Answer to your questions: NO.
But he does have a talent for cut and paste. Most trolls excel at this activity. I believe this is due to decreased brain function as was discussed in previous threads.
This RTID is one example of why I would love to see a rational republican run vs CG, She has every advantage a keader needs to risk some political capital on issue like this but she does not do so.
I wish Ron Sims were governor.
If the dems do not produce better leaders then the resurgent rational republicans will one day appear (probably out of roger rabbit’s cabbage patch! )
So that’s why you voted for Rossi over Gregiore?
@7:
Climate scientists tell us The North Pole will completely melt by 2050, and you’re worried about intellectual property?
Awesome priorities!
You probably support spending $8 billion on new highways too.
Awesome: Larry Craig is either stupid or batshit insane. Or both.
@8 SJ — Fair use is a defense, not a right. Fair use is not clearly defined, and courts consider the defense on a case by case basis. In general, quoting an entire article is toying with possible infringement trouble.
@4: The right-wing bloviators will use this ad to paint all Democrats and Liberals with the “treason” brush.
They’re already calling for all Dems to give back MoveOn money or else they’re “implicitly condoning” the message. You know it’s bullshit, I know it’s bullshit, but that’s what’s happening.
Oh I don’t expect you to ADMIT it’s bullshit. But you know it is.
-OM
My beef with RTID isn’t highway vs. mass transit. We need both. This isn’t a question of perfect vs. good, either. RTID/ST2 is deeply flawed:
1) It doesn’t provide full funding for 520, which means further tax increases later.
2) It spends money — lots of it — to buy votes instead of solving the most critical priorities in the most cost effective way.
3) Raising the sales tax is the wrong way to pay for transportation.
By voting “no” I won’t be voting against mass transit, replacing 520, or pouring concrete. I simply want a more sensible transportation plan. This one isn’t even good, it’s a rough draft that needs much more work before presenting it to voters.
14
I hope Larry Craig’s motion is successful. I’d love that case to go to trial. His attorney, however, knows there’s no way the motion succeeds. Proving a United States Senator failed to understand his rights? C’mon. Even a Republican senator understands the basic rights that he waived. The motion to set aside the guilty plea is simply a vehicle permitting Craig to try to save some face; it gives him an opportunity to claim he tried to prove his innocence, but the court wouldn’t let him do it. He doesn’t want to go to trial. The motion is pure disingenuousness.
I thought today’s performance by the moonbats in the Senate were superb. I particularly enjoyed Swift Boat Kerry’s “we don’t have 60 votes” apology to OBL for failing to follow orders.
Yup… Surrender and Socialism. A winning combination.
Keep it up guys….
Carl Left Foot: Otterpoop is one of yours buddy!
Umm… you did know Kerry “served” in the military… right???? you did know that…
dumshits…
MoveOn References used on ASSWipes:
The Big Blue Wave of 2008? by Goldy, 08/04/2007, 10:50 AM
The Oregon Trail by Goldy, 05/15/2007, 10:06 AM
Challenge met: HA readers raise over $30,000!!! by Goldy, 10/28/2006, 3:15 PM “Personally, I plan to contribute a few hours via MoveOn’s innovative Call For Change program.”
Moms Rising at Town Hall by Goldy, 05/11/2006, 12:06 PM
MoveOn targets Reichert (and other news…) by Goldy, 12/19/2005, 2:20 PM
Peace vigils by Goldy, 08/17/2005, 9:45 PM
And these were the easy ones.
I love Republicans getting up on their high horse and demanding that Democrats give back campaign contributions because a giver makes a statement that Republicans find offensive. Spare the rhetoric and faux-principles, unless you fellows want to give back all the dimes Republican candidates regularly receive from hate groups, etc. MoveOn.org generally does good work. The ad may be over the top, but that hardly means those who receive campaign funds from the group should give them back. Moreover, even if Petraeus may be well-intentioned, he is caught up in the heat of battle and his own ego prevents him from recognizing the obvious. We have lost in Iraq, so let’s declare victory and get the hell out.
Oh Proud leftist: Brian Baird says some good things about Iraq and your friends go into shit mode?
Results 1 – 10 of about 137,000 for MoveOn Brian Baird.
Results 1 – 10 of about 95,300 for MoveOn attacks Brian Baird
Results 1 – 10 of about 35,300 for MoveOn dismisses Brian Baird.
Unfortunately, like the Post, most press outlets conveniently ignored a crucial element of the National Oceanic & Atmospheric Administration study being cited. As reported by the Seattle Times Friday (emphasis added):
In an average August between 1979 and 2000, the Arctic Ocean was covered with about 3 million square miles of sea ice, according to the National Snow and Ice Data Center. By Labor Day this year, the total had shrunk to a little more than half that, shattering the previous record low set in 2005.
Why is 1979 important? An August 28 National Post article on the subject explained
The record melting of the passage comes two weeks after the NSIDC and two other ice-monitoring agencies in the U.S. and Japan declared that the Arctic Ocean ice cover has shrunk to its smallest size since regular satellite imaging of the polar cap began in 1979.
“[A]nalysts at the Canadian Ice Service and the U.S. National Ice Center confirm that the passage is almost completely clear and that the region is more open than it has ever been since the advent of routine monitoring in 1972.”
Getting the picture? Claims of “grim consequences” and “record low” ice levels are based on a satellite record which began in 1979, while routine monitoring of the region started in 1972.
Source:
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/n.....re-history
I dont plan on losing sleep yet
Proud Leftist: Frame the search any way you want.
MoveOn generally does good work
waaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa
Goldy,
Speaking of I 912, I recall the calls for its passage because people would die on I520 when it sinks.
Yet here we are, no closer to a new bridge.
Bait and switch.
Surrender and Socialism…
I think you guys got the pulse of the Murkan people nailed.
Go for it…
sorry, should read “calls ‘AGAINST’ its passage.”
Hey Goldy – Repost that thing you did coupla years ago where you read a report on 520 and decided it should be closed.
I love amateur engineering. Sorta like the crane accident in Bellevue. I’m in awe of your engineering prowess.
Do tell….
Dumshit…
When do the hearings start? Pretty serious stuff even if it does go back to bubba.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200.....fundraiser
Fucking culture of corruption…
Will she wear the “pretty in pink” outfit again?
“I don’t remember…”
“I don’t recall…”
” I have no recollection of that…”
She at least needs to suspend the campaign until we can get to the bottom of this sewer of corruption. “It’s the right thing to do…”
Puddy @ 24
You have never considered Brian Baird an authority on anything. Why do you now find him credible? Honesty requires me to say that what we do in Iraq right now poses remarkably difficult questions. Going there in the first place was horribly stupid. But, what to do with the mess we’ve created can cause people of good intentions to disagree. I think Brian Baird is wrong. Dead wrong. I am, nonetheless, willing to listen to his opinion. When was the last time you listened to someone with whom you disagreed?
Climate scientists tell us The North Pole will completely melt by 2050, and you’re worried about intellectual property?
I’m concerned with both. Why aren’t you?
Proud Libtard: I don’t remember having commented on Brian Baird before the BoobOn.Pinko attacks.
Citation
URL
Time & Date Stamp
Hey Lee: Looks like Hilary got some sense and you are again WRONG!
http://apnews.myway.com/articl.....TI5G3.html
You can’t call it both ways. At least she has a brain Lee. What do you possess in that useless cranial orifice!
@19 “Swift Boat Kerry’s”
Funny you should mention him. Kerry served 2 tours of duty in Vietnam. On his second tour, he volunteered for dangerous riverine duty in the Mekong Delta, where he got into firefights, was wounded 3 times, and won a Silver Star for heroism under fire.
When Kerry ran for president, 10 of the 11 crewmen who served with him actively campaigned for him. But vicious Republican partisans, fueled with money from people like Bob Perry, told savage lies about Kerry’s military service in order to advance their own selfish, money-grubbing, political interests. Yes, money-grubbing, because when you get right down to it, Republicans are grifters and everything they do is about getting their hands on other people’s money.
Take Bob Perry, for example. He’s one of Texas’ biggest homebuilders. Before becoming infamous as the Swift Liars’ biggest financial backer, Perry was mainly infamous for getting sued for shoddy construction and consumer fraud.
So, what kind of man did these scumbugs re-install in the White House? A lily-livered coward who joined the National Guard to avoid Vietnam and then went AWOl from the NG, that’s who. Back in Civil War days, they shot deserters. Nowadays, they run for office as Republicans. That’s because the GOP can’t get real Americans to run for anything. They have to settle for the George Bushes and Jane Hagues of the world.
And, over in Iraq, young Americans are paying with their lives for the lies and perfidies of people like Perry and the Swift Liars.
@19 (continued) Pay your gambling debt, welsher.
Lee: If this was a Republican donor your friends in the MSM would be blasting this all over the rooftops!
@23 Speaking of Petraeus, Bush wanted a “yes man,” and that’s what he got. Petraeus is ambitions and knows how to get promoted. Truth-telling is not part of his program.
@25 So here we have the entire Arctic ice cap melting before our eyes and the Dingbats! screech, “There is no global warming! There is no global warming!” Wonder why no one believes them.
@30 “I love amateur engineering. Sorta like the crane accident in Bellevue. I’m in awe of your engineering prowess.”
I seem to recall your blaming the crane collapse on something other than the incompetently engineering mounting base. They should’ve let a woman do it.
30, 31, 32, 33 — Goldy, can you charge this jerk a toll for each comment he posts until the $100 he owes you is pif?
How about a buck a comment until the bet is paid?
I see in the news that the annual death rate from pharmaceuticals has tripled since wingnuts began running the FDA.
re 2: Previously, One Man, you have claimed to be a Conservative. I just cannot see a conservative as a member of MoveOn.
Can you explain this?
I don’t take any medications approved after 2000.
For instance, Petraes’ claim that sectarian violence has gone down by 75%, is purely smoke-and-mirrors. They have taken incidents of suicide bombers and groups of people who have been shot in the back of the head, and re-classified these incidents as “murders”. The only official sectarian violence that they ARE COUNTING NOW IS ONE OR TWO PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN SHOT IN THE FRONT.
Lying to me with numbers and classifications to continue a war that this president lied us into so that the dumb bastard can save face and pass it on to the next president is, indeed, a BETRAYAL.
The General earned the epithet.
speaking of the pulse of the American people…
http://www.smh.com.au/news/Wo rld/Most-Americans-see-Iraq-wa r-as-failure/2007/09/11/118927 6668382.html
Petraeus, Schmetraeus. The people know better.
Roger Rabbit says:
I don’t take any medications approved after 2000.
09/10/2007 at 6:41 pm
No wonder you’re such a psycho. roof roof.
re 2: Previously, One Man, you have claimed to be a Conservative. I just cannot see a conservative as a member of MoveOn.
Can you explain this?
09/10/2007 at 6:40 pm
If we are to believe dems voted for a corporate whore from Texas in 1992 than believing one man is a piece of cake.
Re: Petraeus
Didn’t another General “betray” us all by spouting one fantasy after another in front of the United Nations?
That General was Powell and the speech was on the “proof” Saddam had WMD.
I agree with DL – the people will know better.
Kinda tough news for you folks today, it would be impossible for your type to admit that our soldiers are capable of any real success in the midst of a political election season.
Fortunately enough of our leaders understand the importance of a win in Iraq, and they will be there until their job is done.
Gassy Poop for Brains @ 54
It must be tough to be such a loser GS. It must tickle you to no end that the only way our troops come home these days is in a body bag or missing a leg, an arm, genitalia or half or more of a face blown off.
# 54: I’m not afraid to admit that our soldiers won the war long ago: “Mission Accomplished!” Remember?
Why are wingnuts so intent on making sure that our military is worn to the nub and many soldiers die uselessly in a civil war that Bush doesn’t have the moral fortitude to get out of — so he’ll pass it on to the next President.
Why can’t you admit that you are a dissembler and you care nothing for the lives of our troops?
Petraeus is simply full of shit. Once put in charge of an operation, he, like many administrators, sees progress where none has occurred. I don’t blame him; such is human nature. On the other hand, I do not find him credible. He has become, even without his knowing, Bush’s boy.
@47: I don’t believe I said I was anything. You may have inferred I was conservative but I never said so.
For the record, I consider myself a centrist Democrat. Probably somewhere to the left of Seattle Jew, right of most everybody else here (save the trolls).
I got involved with MoveOn when they were trying to kill the idiotic impeachment proceedings of President Clinton and have given a fair amount to the PAC after they organized it. That said, I don’t agree with all their positions because I’m not a brainwashed fuckhead like the Dittoheads and Coulterites.
-OM
BTW, Clinton was impeached and disbarred because he lied to a grand jury in a failed attempt to conceal a pattern of predatory behavior in connection with a felony assault case that he settled for $800,000.
Can ya imagine being too fucking dishonest to be a lawyer?
MTR @ 59: “Can ya imagine being too fucking dishonest to be a lawyer?”
Lawyers lose their license to practice for being dishonest, as you point out happened to Clinton. That does not happen in the corporate world. Indeed, not a damned thing happens to those in the corporate world when they lie. Rather, lying is too often rewarded in other professions. You, for instance, claim to be successful in whatever it is you do. Given your inability to tell the truth from an open sore on your own dick, you really should not condemn someone else’s dishonesty.
@59: Yes, Clinton was impeached because he lied about fucking an intern while married to someone else. It was the only thing the Republicans could get him on after spending, what was it, $40 million on their witch hunt? THAT was a great example of the proper use of the people’s money, eh?
I, for one, was disgusted…at the Republicans, particularly in Congress, who Would. Not. Let. Go. even after it was clear that Starr wasn’t going to find anything real.
And I’ll never forget the spit-flinging, vein-throbbing, finger-wagging asshats in the right-wing echo chamber. THAT is why I giggle every time I think of Larry Craig, or The Newt or any of the other fucktards on the wingnut side having ANYTHING to say about Bill Clinton.
Ann Richards was right…you fuckers Just Don’t Get It.
-OM
PS: Liberal enough for ya now?
I’m still trying to figure out why someone like myself who, if RTID works as it says it will, should get to benefit greatly from it, but not pay a dime towars it. Sweet deal for me though, huh.
michael @ 62:
Sweet deal indeed, but how do you figure you’re not going to pay a dime? Do you never buy things in the RTID taxing district?
This will fail 65-35%.
@63
Oops! 12 hours at work will do funny things to your brain.
You Moonbat!s are weird. Liberalism is a mental disorder.
First you said “Get Rid of Rumsfeld” as he’s the Iraq problem. Bush did.
Next you said “Get Rid of General George Casey” as he’s a Bush puppet. Bush did.
Your beloved Congress approves General David Petraeus. On Friday, January 26, 2007, the Senate unanimously approved Lt. Gen. David Petraeus to become the new U.S. forces commander in Iraq. He got his 4th Star! Harry I’ve Got a Land Deal Reid’s Senate.
Now you impugn a highly decorated military man and no one on the Moonbat! Donk side of Congress will distance themselves from MoveOn.Pinko.
It was a lovely day yesterday, in more ways than one.
People with their eyes open can see how Moonbat!s hate the military!
WHy do Moonbat! Donk Presidential Candidates visit our sworn enemies and make their puny pitches?
http://www.breitbart.tv/html/5418.html
Hey Lee: Even the MSM has admitted they ain’t covering “If the Hsu fits” controversy.
“The Clinton campaign made its announcement around 6:40 p.m., shortly after the network news programs had begun on the East Coast. The timing was roughly the same Aug. 29, when Clinton advisers disclosed that they were giving Mr. Hsu’s $23,000 in personal donations to charity. Clinton aides, who have been trying to contain the damage from the case, have been monitoring the number of stories the evening news programs have run on Mr. Hsu — only a handful thus far.”
Fair Use per Pelletmaker.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09.....ref=slogin
I just love how Moonbat!s in the librul MSM cover for their “friends”
@69: Oopsie, here I am listening to that Lib’rul bastion NPR while reading this RIGHT NOW…and what’s the story? Why it’s about Mr. Hsu.
Gosh, too bad the facts don’t bear out your fantasies.
-OM
Folks, we’ve got something useful to discuss here, which is why we all should vote NO on RTID.
If you concede that global warming exists — and I mean really concede, in that you admit that we have to do something about it — then RTID is not the way to go. For decades to come, it’ll plow scarce transportation money into new highways at a time when we know we must move away from cars and towards mass transit (repair of existing highway infrastructure is almost entirely neglected, meaning that in the future, we’ll inevitably need even more new taxes to pay for roads).
True, there is Sound Transit funding, but in parallel, RTID’s new highways will dramatically increase vehicle miles traveled. Unless trains can somehow suck C02 out of the air, the net result is that RTID will make global warming worse.
We can do a lot better than RTID, in fact, we have to. Future generations will thank us for wisely saying NO to RTID, and then in 2008 or 2009, voting YES for a transportation package that is aligned with our climate realities.
Don’t you just love right wing math?
The earth was warmer 100 million years ago.
The earth is only 8,000 years old.
Don’t question it.
A web site for Christian fascists.
These girls are only for good Christian men.
http://www.marryourdaughter.com/
Back to the topic ..
Another way of looking at the RTID is itse relationship to housing prices in Seattle. This AM the mean house past the 500,000 mark.
Obviously at this rate few workers will be able to live in Seattle or Bvue (@600,000). What is unspoken in both the transit and the housing debates here is that the income classes are diverging at the same time as the real estate phenomenon is booming.
Presumably the latter can only continue until the market collapses for lack of buyers. In the meantime, the effect will be to class segregate our society.
To make that much worse, the old idea of cheap suburban housing is also disappearing because of the costs of commuting. Who will RTID serve when the minimum income required to live in Seattle approaches 100k?
Assuming we also stop the importation of illegals, we are headed for something like South Africa where the city will need to run dorms for the teachers, nannies, burger flippers, janitors, cops, professors, beauticians, and others of the servitor classes.
Now when this happened in South Africa there was convenient labeling system for the classes, race. If we do not have this, we may need some other way to denote servitors from the served. I suppose we could have residence badges? Maybe that badge could give free light rail transit so servitors could live in Tacoma?
Alternatively Seattle may need to build dorms. But this has its own issues. Who will be allowed to live in the dorms? Is it the responsibility of the City to support domiciles for families? Will servitor children be allowed to go to the same schools as children of the served? The only alternative may be to not allow families to live in Seattle unless they can demonstrate they have the necessary means.
This scenario is not fictitious. The Roman Empire ran on something like this system. My own hero, Jefferson, praised the Romans for having a system of slavery that enabled the served to use servitors to build great edifices. Perhaps the time has come to re-establish a form of slavery?
What would Jefferson do?
@73
We’re letting rich folks buy their way into carpool lanes too.
http://www.thenewstribune.com/.....52263.html
Toll puts you in fast lane
Drivers will be able to buy their way into car-pool lanes
JOSEPH TURNER; The News Tribune
Published: September 10th, 2007 01:00 AM
It won’t be long before some commuters on Highway 167 in South King County begin paying a toll of between 50 cents and $3 to travel between Auburn and Renton.
The state Department of Transportation is aiming for spring 2008 to open the high occupancy toll – HOT – lane pilot project on Highway 167 that will allow solo drivers to buy their way into the car-pool lanes.
Travel will remain free to buses, vanpools, carpools and motorcycles in the car-pool lanes and for all traffic in the general-purpose lanes.
@73
You accurately lay out the problem of increasing population and a limited planet, but we don’t need to look to S. Africa for a solution.
The Puget Sound area’s population is projected to increase by something like 40% by 2050, bringing us to a density somewhat less than the European level. In Europe — a very nice place — they long ago solved the crowding problem with increased urban density and excellent mass transit.
If we do the same, we’ll be in fine shape. Unfortunately, much of RTID drives us in the opposite direction.
I did miss speak earlier saying that I’ll be able to benefit from RTID without paying anything for it, but there are plenty of people who live outside of RTID, but work inside it or travel though it frequently for recreation. These people will pay next to nothing while someone who rarely leaves Seattle will be picking up their tab.
WTF?
I doubt the RTID tax on the handful of purchases I make inside the district will amount to anything close to my fair share of the cost of my use of highways inside RTID.
@75
Spot on!
@75
I wish it were loking as easy as you say.
First, at minimum prices of 400k, few servitors will be able to live in Seattle.
Second, while I too like the light rail idea, this works for the unterclassen if and only iff low cost housing exists at the other end or the train. I do not see any prospect for construction of low cost housing along the light rail line,
My guess is that step #1 of any mass transit system, in order to work, must be a pay as you go toll system. It has to be really expensive to commute (as Darry does) from Redmond to the UDub (unless he chooses to fly). Even this simply cuts down traffic between two over expensive areas. At least high tolls would discourage urban sprawl!
Another approach is to encourage high density development in less attractive areas of Seattle.
SeattleJew@78
We’re in violent agreement ;)
Congestion pricing will discourage sprawl, and make the roads we have more efficient. Even better, the resulting revenue stream is a better and bigger transit funding source than the shotgun pattern of taxes and fees propping up RTID.
And, with good urban planning, affordable housing can exist at the same end of rail line. In Seattle, the condos built because of new zoning are cooling off housing prices. It is easy to see how further rezones and incentives could drive down rents.
Creative land use and transportation policies are realistic solutions to our population problems; RTID is about more highways, and other failing approaches.
@79 I dunno. I have not heard of any American-style solution to low cost housing, Most of Europe has some form of state supported housing, I am skeptical that is possible here.
Given a mean income of 50k, I guess we would need to find a way of creating housing for no more than 200k-300k. Is that possible?
One thought is some sort of publicly financed communities that could be purchased or rented at no profit. The idea would be for the city to target some area for housing, define it well by zoning and then pay a builder to create the housing. Is this imaginable in the US? Where might it be in Seattle ??? I kind of like the Elliott Ave area. I also think there is a real opportunity to “take” a lot of the Lake Union shoreside and rezone/redevelop it.
http://washington.sierraclub.o...../Index.htm
Goldstein you’re awfully quiet on the Makah’s killing of a whale this past weekend
What was Michael McGuinn’s involvement?
I am so frustrated with the commute and cost of housing in the region. I’m not sure what to do.
Each new transportation improvement package that’s introduced seems to make an attempt at solving the problems, but execution falls woefully short of the mark. Take the last major effort that established Sound Transit: HOV lanes, busses, more bridges and roads and a commuter train. Awesome, right? Sure, until they actually started building all of it. Then we see the dark side. Rail service from Rainier Valley to the Airport — what the fuck? Who commutes there? HOV lane construction — yeah, except that Southbound they stop short of the Pierce County line (right where the backups are the worst) and Northbound they end right before Everett, and unless the old Express Lanes are going your direction you’re going to be breathing CO emissions for a few hours while you attempt to cross Seattle. And 405? Sweet Jesus. I drive that road every day and I’ll admit that the carpool lanes are better than solo travel on that road, but only marginally so. One slow, oversized tractor-trailer can turn a 40-minute drive into a 90-minute tortue session. I see this at least once a week.
And let’s not forget the best part: this stuff was all started 10 years ago. And the stupid Rainier Valley to Airport train isn’t even running yet! I-5 is still under construction! 405 hasn’t even been touched! 10 fucking years with only marginal improvements! Gary Locke promised that we’d have HOV lanes from Everett to Olympia during his first term as Governor! 10 years!
If we do approve this measure, I doubt I’ll live to see any benefit from it. Hell, if everything they promise is implemented, I doubt it will be enough to address the commuting problems that will exist in the next decade or two.
We are suffering from a severe lack of planning and foresight coupled with a deep reluctance to pay taxes and strong lack of trust in our government and the politicians that run it. I cannot think of anything that would dig us out of this mess, and in good conscience I cannot vote for another half-assed transportation measure.
We need a bold solution, and as a region we need to step up, suck it up and pay through the nose for it. If we want the problems solved it’s going to cost a lot of money and it’s not going to happen overnight — two things I know Republicans hate, being the party of no taxes and instant gratification.
I said this on this forum years ago that we needed a train that went from Everett to Olympia with two stops in-between: Seattle and Tacoma. A second line should be added to go from Seattle to Bellevue to Issaquah to North Bend. This would require a lot of money and generous application of Imminent Domain — again, two things Republicans hate, guaranteeing that we’d fight about it for another 20 years.
I think the first step to solving our transportation problem is to solve the divisiveness that’s been woven into our political system. Rather than a system where people come together to solve problems, we have a system that’s centered on playing Gotcha! between political opponents.
I think we’re fucked.
7, 8, 15, etc.: When a right-thinking rightist replicates big wads of published material on HA, it’s called infringement; the rightist gets whacked. When a leftist mook steals & prints big hunks of published material, HA & Rabbit call it fair use, and it just isn’t fair.
The paranoid style in Jewish fiction:
I’m a little behind (about three years) in my reading, and finally caught up with Philip Roth’s vicious & vile ‘Plot Against America.’ Any of you shiksa chix want to defend it? Bring it on.
You want to spend $10 billion MORE on roads — in 2007 !?! — knowing this will cause more driving, more congestion, more sprawl, more CO2 emissions & more global warming ?!!
Are you nuts?
Capt. Drew Jensen, a Stryker Brigade soldier, has died in a Seattle hospital of wounds received in Iraq.
Excerpt below from from \”Say yes to war\” by Goldy\’s pal and radio guest Dan Savage Oct. 2002
Because we\’re not just at war with al Qaeda, stupid. We\’re at war with a large and growing Islamo-fascist movement that draws its troops and funds from all over the Islamic world. Islamo-fascism is a regional problem, not just an al Qaeda problem or an Afghanistan problem. To stop Islamo-fascism, we\’re going to have to roll back all of the tyrannous and dictatorial regimes in the Middle East while simultaneously waging war against a militant, deadly religious ideology. To be completely honest, I would actually prefer that the United States go to war against the ridiculous royal family in Saudi Arabia. The Saudis have been using American money to export their intolerant and deadly strain of Islam all over the world (the kind of Islam that inspires people to blow up discos in Bali), and getting rid of the Saudi royal family and their fascist clerics makes more sense than getting rid of Saddam. But the Saudis are our \”allies,\” so perhaps we can pressure them to reform, as Josh Feit suggests.
In the meantime, invading and rebuilding Iraq will not only free the Iraqi people, it will also make the Saudis aware of the consequences they face if they continue to oppress their own people while exporting terrorism and terrorists. The War on Iraq will make it clear to our friends and enemies in the Middle East (and elsewhere) that we mean business: Free your people, reform your societies, liberalize, and democratize… or we\’re going to come over there, remove you from power, free your people, and reform your societies for ourselves.
7, 8, 15, etc.: When a right-thinking rightist replicates big wads of published material on HA, it’s called infringement; the rightist gets whacked. When a leftist mook steals & prints big hunks of published material, HA & Rabbit call it fair use, and it just isn’t fair.
Oh, you poor dear. You’ve been victimized again. Can’t a conservative ever get a break in this cruel, cruel world?
@81
Note the 2004 on that web page. McGinn hasn’t been political chair for a while now. Leave the guy alone.
87: You’re right. I’m starting to sound like a whiny liberal bedwetter. I’m starting to sound like you.
You’re right. I’m starting to sound like a whiny liberal bedwetter. I’m starting to sound like you.
Oh, snap! I am devastated by your wit. “I know you are, but what am I?” is an unbeatable argument. Now, if you’ll excuse me, I’ve got to go and cry into my pillow and then eat a quart of ice cream…
I’ve got to go and cry into my pillow …
Don’t forget your rubber sheet.
@69
Puddybud,
Mitt Romney’s national finance co-chair used to run a chain of “drug rehab” centers where minors were held against their will and tortured, and the media has completely ignored that. Can you please explain to me again how that’s not worse than the Clinton’s receiving money from someone they didn’t know was a felon, and have now returned the money?
My god, you’re an imbecile.
Lee: Oh so they don’t check their contributors Lee? Didi they forget 1996 and Charlie Trie? From NPR so you can’t get any more librul than them
“Sen. Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign is giving back $850,000 raised by Norman Hsu, who was arrested last week on a previous felony conviction.”
Check this out Lee. http://www.macsmind.com/wordpr.....-mr-hsu-2/
You’ll see his resume was littered with lies. They never checked him Lee. This is what makes the Charlie Trie story even more compelling!
Now for the last time Lee, You R the Missing Link, and an IDIOT!
Mitt Romney’s national finance co-chair used to run a chain of “drug rehab” centers where minors were held against their will and tortured, and the media has completely ignored that. Can you please explain to me again how that’s not worse than the Clinton’s receiving money from someone they didn’t know was a felon, and have now returned the money?
Good question. Will someone answer it?
Good question. Will someone answer it?
Evidently not.