Initiative profiteer and cabaret performer Tim Eyman took his one-man-show back to Olympia yesterday, dressing up for the TV cameras as a very butch Buzz Lightyear. (I’m told Tim also does a dead-on Liz Minelli impersonation, but he’s saving that costume for the July 7th deadline.)
Eyman supposedly turned in 252,000 signatures on his anti-transit Initiative 917, and promised another 40,000 or so by the end of next week. Not at all surprising really, considering his prior statements, because I never trust a single thing he ever says.
Back on June 5, Eyman told reporters that he had collected only 142,000 signatures on I-917, a shockingly small number considering his army of paid signature gatherers had been on the streets since early February, and for much of that time, unopposed. This early season strategy permitted Eyman to pay some of the lowest street rates in the state — between $0.75 and $0.90 per signature — and yet through the end of May he’d already spent $324,800 on signature gathering efforts.
To spend that much money on so few signatures just doesn’t make sense. That’s about $2.30 per signature, a bizarre 200 percent markup for canvassing firm Citizens Solutions, Inc.
To further cast doubt on Eyman’s June 5th claim of only 142,000 signatures is the fact that reported sitings of I-917 had already trickled to virtually nil by that date. Indeed for much of June, while signature gatherers were out in full force pushing I-920, I-933 and other petitions, virtually none were carrying I-917. And yet now Eyman claims he’ll turn in 300,000 signatures by the deadline.
How could that possibly be? Well here’s a novel theory: Tim Eyman lied.
Of course, that begs the question “why?” What could Eyman possibly have to gain by deflating his June 5th numbers? He relies mostly on paid signature gatherers, so it couldn’t be some lame attempt at motivation.
Well, I have another theory which, lacking the subpoena power to open up the private books of Eyman and Citizens Solutions I cannot possibly prove, but… I think Tim’s ripping off his patron, Woodenville investment banker Michael Dunmire, who’d already contributed $307,700 to I-917 through the end of May.
See, here’s what I suspect is really going on. Eyman is paying his pal Roy Ruffino at Citizens Solutions a typical 100 percent markup per signature, so it’s probably costing the campaign about $1.50 each. Thus the $324,800 in signature gathering expenditures through May probably accounted for about 216,000 signatures.
Tim doesn’t have a volunteer organization to speak of, but he does mail out thousands of petitions, and surely, some of those do come back. So lets be generous and say he’s collected about 40,000 signatures from volunteers. That means that by June 5, Tim was likely comfortably past the 224,880 signature threshold and well on his way to hitting the 20 percent cushion everybody shoots for. But if he comes right out and says it, he can’t very well go back to Dunmire and ask for more money, can he?
So let me go out on a limb here and make a prediction: come the July 10th PDC filing we’re going to see another $100,000 or so contribution from Dunmire, and another $100,000 or so in expenditures to Citizens Solutions. But I think that these expenditures will mostly be for signatures that had already been gathered and paid for.
Again, I can’t prove it, but I’ve always suspected that Eyman has a financial stake in Citizens Solutions, or receives some kind of monetary “consideration”, and while none of this may be illegal it is certainly dishonest. Something is just not right here, and knowing Timmy, I can’t help but suspect that he’s cooking the books for personal gain. Again.
Think about it. What would it really cost to gather 150,000 signatures during the final three weeks of June, the busiest and most expensive time of the season? $300,000 bare minimum. So considering what Eyman had spent through May, and what he now says he’ll turn in next week, his June 7th claim was obviously total bullshit.
Now perhaps Dunmire doesn’t care. Perhaps Eyman told him from the start it would cost him about $400,000 to guarantee I-917 a spot on the ballot, and Dunmire doesn’t really care how it gets there or how much Eyman personally profits off the venture. But if this isn’t an attempt to deceive Dunmire I’m at a loss to explain Tim’s June 5th deception.
Perhaps Tim just plain enjoys lying?
Liberal Democrats know best and should be in charge of “guvment”. Republicans should be quiet and just pay 30-40% of their income in taxes because “progressives” know best. Hillary Clinton, John “Fing” Kerry, Al “Gulfstream 5” Gore
you’ve gotta be right, goldy. It’s the only logical explanation.
http://www.nwprogressive.org/w.....ng-to.html
Looks like Timmy has his very own sugar daddy. Do you think right wing anti-American referendums is the only thing little Timmy is pimping???
Pat at 1 – Cheer up, Pat. The Democrats are dumb enough to nominate Hillary in 2008. In fact, she’s probably dumb enough to select somebody like Cynthia McKinney or Maxine Waters for her running mate!
REP Pat (You are not worthy of the name Kennedy) @ 1
When good Republicans like J. Dennis Hastert use this mythical 30-40% of your income taxes to make a couple of million dollars:
House Speaker J. Dennis Hastert has used an Illinois trust to invest in real estate near the proposed route of the Prairie Parkway, a highway project for which he’s secured $207 million in earmarked appropriations. The trust has already transferred 138 acres of land to a real estate development firm that has plans to build a 1,600-home community, located just a few miles from the north-south connector Hastert has championed in the House.
http://www.captainsquartersblo.....007206.php
this is what? A shrewed investment. Bidness as usual. Sumsucking thievery from crooks feeding off the public trough? What?
DES MOINES, Iowa – A new study says enough legal immigrants will be eligible to vote in the 2008 presidential election to “substantially and quickly alter the political status quo.” The study by the Chicago-based Illinois Coalition for Immigrant and Refugee Rights said there’s an increase in voter registration by a large immigrant population – new voters likely influenced by “red-hot anti-immigrant demagoguery” that’s spreading through Republican Party politics.
Let me see if I understand this.
Because illegal and legal Hispanic immigrants will not vote for the GOP;Republicans then need to institute comprehensive immigration reform [grant amnesty for illegals] and please don’t check an id card when the illegals are at the voting booth. Let’s see: 12 million illegals equals 18 million new Democrat votes. Yup……I got it now.
5, Commander Ogg, “mythical 30-40% taxes”: Let’s see: FICA [both sides], FED, state, property, sales, gas, direct and indirect taxes. Throw in “guvment” costs through regulations and fees. ………Yup. 30-40% sounds about right.
Having a single, flat rate income tax would go a long way towards elimnating some of the shennanigans everyone is so up-in-arms about. We need a simple-to-compute tax with a low rate and high penalties for cheating. And we need to stop all this “the Republicans did this” and “the Democrats did that” crap. Arguing about who did what ain’t gonna make the tax laws any simpler.
It is not the tax laws that are the problem, it is the lack of fiduciary responsibility. As VP of a condo association, if I lost the same proportion of money from my association account that was looted in the wake of the Katrina disaster, the State regulators would mount and stuff my head on the wall:
Katrina fraud, waste estimated to cost taxpayers $2 bil
The Republicans are in charge Mr. Libertarian, have been for 15 years. Rep. William Jefferson, D-La may have had a freezer full of money, but his was a rogue operation.
Casino Jack and his Republican friends used the federal Treasury as their own personnel piggy bank, billions of tax dollars spent to enrich corporations who view our tax money as just another source of income. Untill this changes, get use to higher “fees” on just about everything.
“BTY, did it ever occur to you that the reason property, sales, gas, direct and indirect taxes (Washington has no state tax) are going up is because President Bush and his Rubber stamp Republicans transfered massive amounts of the middle class tax revenue into the haves and the have even mores?”
I realize that President Bush gets blamed for everything fucking thing under the Sun, the Moon, and the Stars, but property taxes, sales taxes, & gas taxes have all gone up because of growth in the economy and out-of-control spending here in Washington State by our Democrat leaders.
The federal gas tax has NOT gone up. If this nanny state had a state income tax, the working families would be MUCH better off. States that do not have an income tax and rely soley on taxing consumption are considered regressive and they hurt the little guys who can barely feed, clothe and house their families the most.
This in from al-Reuters: Iraqi and U.S. troops battled Shi’ite militiamen in a village northeast of Baghdad on Thursday…Iraqi security officials said IRANIAN FIGHTERS HAD BEEN CAPTURED IN THE FIGHTING (emphasis added)……………………My thought is that B-52 Linebacker strikes win the “hearts and minds” of the enemy EVERYTIME they are tried. In addition, the iranian oil would become American oil, thus saving the white snow bunnies in ANWR.
Dunmire must not be paying enough taxes, if he can’t think of any better way to get rid of 400K than giving it to Lieman.
Well, I have a suggest for Dunmire. Here’s how to get rid of money you can’t spend: http://previews.nvtech.com/175.....061419.jpg
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“Looks like Timmy has his very own sugar daddy. Do you think right wing anti-American referendums is the only thing little Timmy is pimping???” Commentby LeftTurn— 6/30/06@ 12:31 pm
You know, I wondered about that myself. Maybe Lieman is a “kept man.” Maybe he has a sugar daddy (not mentioning any names) who likes to get sucked off, and paying for initiative campaigns is just a cover for cash-for-queer-sex (not mentioning any names). Ya never know. Things rarely are what they appear to be. But this is all conjectural, and above all, I’m not suggesting any names.
5
30% to 40% is about right — on average. Of course, there are lots of millionaires who don’t pay anywhere close to that. That’s the middle class tax rate for people who don’t have fancy tax shelters. Historically, the federal government has gotten 18% to 22% of GDP, while state and local governments have gotten around 15%. The historical average of all taxes adds up to about 33% to 37% of national income.
5
But, like I said, the people who whine the loudest about taxes usually are the same people who pay the least taxes.
For example, how many of us will ever inherit $2 million? Yet, that’s the minimum size an estate must be to owe any estate taxes.
WELTANSCHAUN , Smegmac, WELTANSCHAUN
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“Having a single, flat rate income tax would go a long way towards elimnating some of the shennanigans everyone is so up-in-arms about. We need a simple-to-compute tax with a low rate and high penalties for cheating. And we need to stop all this “the Republicans did this” and “the Democrats did that” crap. Arguing about who did what ain’t gonna make the tax laws any simpler.” Commentby Libertarian— 6/30/06@ 1:22 pm
What a load of crap! We have high penalties for cheating right now. What makes you think that will work any better with a flat tax? It will work the same as it does now. What you really want to do is make a family of four living on a $35,000 income pay the same tax rate as a CEO with an income of $35,000,000! Your screwball flat tax would result in a massive transfer of tax burden from the rich and very rich to the working class and middle class. Fuck you!
Roger,
Can you explain why the State should make life and death decisions for children when the parents don’t agree with doctors?
WE THE PEOPLE can and should FIRE THEM ALL and start from scratch! A period of Political “JUBILEE”. If you will, a HARD reboot.
By the time they screw it up again, the Thousand Year Reign should be well under way.
If the Lord should tarry, at least when they try to add the 16th amendment WE THE PEOPLE will DEMAND that it be properly ratified! Shoot, That would mean that the members of BOTH Houses will have to have day jobs like it was intended in the first place!
Roger, what would work better than a flat tax is a flat tax for everyone over 2 million in yearly income, with no deductions, no shelters, and no charity foundations deductions. If everyone in THAT category paid a straightup 35% in federal taxes – the government would soon be swimming in money…………
19, RR, “Progressive income taxes are good.” Karl Marx and Hillary Clinton
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Commentby sgmmac— 6/30/06@ 1:59 pm
” … property taxes, sales taxes, & gas taxes have all gone up because of growth in the economy and out-of-control spending here in Washington State by our Democrat leaders.”
Bullcrap! My property tax has gone up less than 2% a year over the last several years. The sales tax rate hasn’t increased at all. The gas tax is more complicated …
1) First of all, in the current supply-demand environment, you don’t pay the gas tax increase, the oil companies do. If the nickel tax had been repealed, you’d be paying exactly the same for gas, and the extra nickel would just be additional oil company profit. That’s because pump prices go up until demand falls to a level equal to available supply.
2) The increasing mileage efficiency of vehicles cuts into gas revenues. It costs the same to build and maintain roads regardless of whether the vehicles using them get 15 mpg or 30 mpg. But if everyone traded their 15 mpg guzzler for a 30 mpg economy car, and drove the same number of miles, the state’s gas tax revenue would be cut in half.
3) Washington hadn’t raised its gas tax for several years. The gas tax doesn’t go up with inflation, because it’s not pegged to the price of gasoline. So even if the state doesn’t spend more money, in real terms, on highways it still has to raise the gas tax periodically just to stay even with inflation.
4) Roads are essential to commerce. Without them, commuters can’t get to their jobs, and businesses can’t move goods. No roads = no economy. Money in invested in needed road infrastructure pays for itself many times over.
“The federal gas tax has NOT gone up.”
Yes and no. Congress tends to raise the federal gas tax infrequently, but it does raise it. The last increase in the federal gas tax was in 1993, so an increase is due. Not raising the federal tax means less federal highway spending which means states bear a larger share of the costs. http://www.artba.org/economics.....istory.htm
“If this nanny state had a state income tax, the working families would be MUCH better off. States that do not have an income tax and rely soley on taxing consumption are considered regressive and they hurt the little guys who can barely feed, clothe and house their families the most.”
I agree. The bottom 20% of Washington households pay 17% of their income in state and local taxes; the top 20% pay only 4%. State taxes on low income families and small businesses should be cut, and affluent households should pay their fair share. But that is NOT the GOP-approved talking point. Republicans want to keep our regressive state tax system.
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Welcome back, Lucy! Kick neocon butt!
20
‘Can you explain why the State should make life and death decisions for children when the parents don’t agree with doctors?”
Commentby sgmmac— 6/30/06@ 2:24 pm
For the same reason parents shouldn’t be allowed to beat or have sex with their children.
WE THE PEOPLE can and should FIRE THEM ALL and start from scratch! A period of Political “JUBILEE” if you will (a HARD reboot).
By the time they screw it up again, the Thousand Year Reign should be well under way.
If the Lord should tarry, at least when they try to add the 16th amendment WE THE PEOPLE will DEMAND that it be properly ratified! Shoot, That would mean that the members of the two Houses will have to have day jobs like it was intended in the first place!
22
I don’t want a confiscatory or punitive tax system that takes money from the rich simply because they have money. The basic purpose of a tax system is to raise money for government activities.
By way of brief digression, I oppose deficit spending because it results in a highly regressive “inflation tax” being imposed on those least able to afford it. (No, inflation is not an act of God or act of nature; it is a wilful, premeditated, man-made phenomenon; and yes, it’s a tax.)
Returning to the subject of taxes, the challenge is to devise a tax system that satisfies several criteria (which sometimes compete or conflict with each other):
1. It should stimulate, or at least not hurt, the economy;
2. It should encourage, or at least not discourage, investment;
3. It should be fair;
4. It should raise the needed amount of revenue;
5. It should be simple and easy to comply with;
6. If not progressive, it should at least not be regressive.
That’s not easy to do. A flat tax is seen as unfair to lower income taxpayers, but an excessively progressive tax is seen as unfair to affluent taxpayers and may be counterproductive (i.e., produce less revenue) by encouraging use of tax shelters and other tax-avoidance strategems. It’s awfully hard to find the right balance.
Folks of conservative bent say we should reduce taxes by cutting spending. They point to this or that program as “waste” or “abuse.” On paper, the argument is seductive. The problem is, although there’s a vast array of government agencies and programs, most government spending is concentrated in just a few places, e.g., defense, education, Social Security and Medicare. Even if you eliminated all the rest of the government, you wouldn’t get enough savings to cut taxes very much. For example, the basic federal welfare program, called Aid for Dependent Children, never exceeded 3% of total federal spending even in its heyday. In our state government, two items — education and social services — account for three-fourths of the state budget. The largest social services item is nursing home care for the indigent elderly. Well, the upshot is that under Republican control of the federal government, federal spending has increased 3 times as fast as it did under Clinton. When reporters press Republican politicians for specific cuts all they offer is platitudes. That should tell you something.
The fact our political system has, over time, consistently produced government spending levels within a very narrow range — 15% of GDP for state and local government, and 18% to 22% of GDP for federal spending — should tell you something, too. It tells you what voters want from government, and what it costs. Actually, the reality is a little more complex than that. What people want from government is endless. After all, in economic terms, what is the demand for a “free good?” That is, how much do people want of something valuable that nominally is free? The demand is infinite, isn’t it? What the 33% to 37% figure represents is the upper limit of voters’ tolerance for taxes. Given infinite demand for “free” government benefits and services, government spending tends to rise to the highest level that taxation will support, and taxes tend to rise to the highest level that voters are willing to tolerate. That figure has been amazingly consistent over the last 75 years. Make sense?
23
In your case, yes. You have too much money for your own good. You (and the rest of humanity) would be better off if you fucking starved to death. Then this blog wouldn’t be polluted with your political spam any more.
27
I know a guy who would like to sell you a bunch of forms and instructions that explain how to “legally not pay taxes.” He’ll tell you the 16th amendment was “not properly ratified,” therefore paying taxes is “voluntary.”
Oh, and by the way, he doesn’t use these forms and instructions himself, and all of his “clients” who did are currently in federal prisons.
RR, Where is the “love”? I thought lib “progressive” Democrats were the party of understanding and compassion!! [Fuck you, “guvment” parasite hack! Cheer up!! Your “guvment” check will come this week, paid for by the taxpayers in the private sector you hate.]
23
“In your case, yes. You have too much money for your own good.”
Commentby Roger Rabbit— 6/30/06@ 3:06 pm […….hehe, Democrat “guvment” hacks KNOW how much money those in the private sector should have. Some of us might have “too much”!! Hillary and RR will “redistribute” this error!! Karl Marx would be proud!!]
I know a guy who would like to sell you a bunch of forms and instructions that explain how to “legally not pay taxes.” He’ll tell you the 16th amendment was “not properly ratified,” therefore paying taxes is “voluntary.”
Oh, and by the way, he doesn’t use these forms and instructions himself, and all of his “clients” who did are currently in federal prisons.
Commentby Roger Rabbit— 6/30/06@ 3:10 pm
You Don’t get, do you?
Yes, Roger. I want a flat rate tax. Let’s take your example. A family of four has a household income of $35,000. Not wealthy by any stretch of the imagination. A rich family of 4 has an income of $35,000,000. Let’s say that our flat rate only appplies to the amount of income in excess of $100,000, and that rate is 10%. It’s not a pure flat rate system, but it’s not the neo-socialist wealth-redistribution curret scheme, either.
OK, back to our example: our family with $35,000 pay NO INCOME TAX!!!! They simply don’t make enough money. The rich family pays $349,000 in income taxes:
($35,000,000 – $100,000)X 10% = $349,000
The only reason you don’t like this system is that you’re a closet socialist and are angry because your life has been a failure. You’re jealous of the wealthy because, not only are they smarter than you, they are BETTER THAN YOU! All you have been is a GOVERNMENT FREELOADER you’re entire life! You’re a disgusting POS.
@24,
Roger, I am not the one whinning about property taxes, sales taxes, gas taxes have gone up. I was responding to someone who blamed Bush for it.
Property taxes and gas taxes have increased for growth. My property tax was very high to start with, when I bought my house in 2000. We shall see what happens this coming January or when the State Supreme Court decides to rule on property taxes, Gregoire went on record saying 1% growth isn’t enough……
Bush tax cuts helped America stay out of a massive recession immediately following 9/11. Those tax cuts and the “Hot” real estate market have poured extra millions into the State’s economy which has helped keep taxes where they are. The state legislature also gave out some tax incentives to spur more growth in the economy.
I’m not great in math, but someone making 35 million a year needs to pay a lot more than 349 thousand in taxes…………
“($35,000,000 – $100,000)X 10% = $349,000”
Seems to me that 10% of $34.9m might be $3.49m. Guess “Libertarian” isn’t in that group of “smarter than you” people either.
31
Why do YOU deserve compassion?
31 (continued)
I wonder if we could interest native Hawaiians in reviving the ancient ritual of human sacrifice?
Roger,
Make sense?
Perfectly!
Thank YOU!
Libertarian’s math may be off, but he’s (she’s?) right on the money about Roger Rabbit: Roger’s a worthless piece of shit and a failed human being. Why else do you think he masquerades as a fucking rabbit?
And BA, go fuck yourself. Nobody gives a shit about your opinion.
Yossarian – bad day?
Libertarian (or maybe spelling is a challenge too and it’s “librarian”) makes a good conceptual argument – but I wonder if it is as compelling to him/her when the math is right.
That’s Fibbertarian to you,son. . . .
Goldy you could have started this thread off with…
Of course all republicans lie – it’s not just Timmy Lieman who lies. It’s any and all republicans who lie. They teach their kids to lie. They vote for liars. They live with liars. Liars are all they ever will be.
Who the fuck cares how much signatures cost? It’s a drop in the bucket compared to the BILLIONS OF DOLLARS that Eyman saves The Producers.
Here’s a novel idea from Mark The Redneck to help you guys… who don’t you start a “Tax Me More” initiative? The initiative would mandate that the state setup a special fund for all you generous libruls to dump any extra money you have laying around. I mean… c”mon… you guys think all good things come from gummint and that a society can tax itself into prosperity. Right? So if you guys are so fucking worried about gummint not having enough money, you could give all the money you’ve got to gummint where (apparently) it would go to FAR BETTER USE than you spending it on yourselves and your famblies.
Let me know how that goes OK?
Didn’t think so…
My fellow Kennedys… this gonna be a great weekend. Make it a four day. If each of us fucks and murders one piece of ass per day, the body count will be 16 by the time we go back to work on Wednesday.
I’m wondering how you guys mix panty droppers… on a weekend like this I like good ol’ fashioned margaritas. But I’m wondering if you guys use something more creative. Can you share your recipes?
Mark, As a “rehabbed” Kennedy, I’m ready for some real fun!! Let’s get William Kennedy Smith and take some chicks for “walks” on the beach! Maybe we can play “6 iron” with some school gurls at cousin Michael Skakel’s house? Finally, Uncle Ted will show us how to drive, drive, kill, and then play “victim” with a white neck brace!!! Let’s go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Pat – What’s yer panty dropper recipe? Ya gotta make ’em go down easy…
38, RR, See you in the water. The surf can be dangerous for pussy liberals.
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“Fuck you, ‘guvment’ parasite hack! Cheer up!! Your ‘guvment’ check will come this week, paid for by the taxpayers in the private sector you hate.” Commentby REP Pat Kennedy [D-Bitchslap the Black Security Guard At LAX]— 6/30/06@ 3:12 pm
For once you got something right, JCH! Well, three out of four in ONE POST ain’t bad — for you!
1. Damn right I’m getting fucked! About 1,500 times a day! I line up female bunnies and bang ’em 10 at a time! Bunnies forever! So … how about you? Been laid lately?
2. Parasite hack — absolutely! I’m a liberal partisan hack! I’ve never denied it. In fact, I’ve called myself that many times. Which leads to a couple of other points …
2a. Spelling: The word “partisan” is spelled p-a-r-t-i-s-a-n, not p-a-r-a-s-i-t-e. I can understand being off by a couple of letters, but even for a wingnut, your spelling is atrocious.
2b. Plagiarism: It’s obvious where you got “Roger Rabbit is a partisan hack” from — you plagiarized me! Whatsa matter, don’t you know how to use quote marks and proper attribution, you little weasel?
3. “Your ‘guvment’ check will come this week …” You’re absolutely correct! I get paid on the last day of the month, not the first day of the month. The fucking cheapskate state retirement bureaucrats want to see if you were alive the whole month before they release your check! If I had gotten run over yesterday by a speeding SUV driven by a Republican fuck, they would have deducted 1 day from my check!
4. ” … paid for by the taxpayers in the private sector you hate.” This one’s wrong — on TWO counts.
4a. I’ve never gotten one fucking cent of taxpayer money. My pension checks are MY OWN MONEY that was withheld from my paychecks whether I liked it or not.
4b. What makes you think private sector taxpayers are the only one who pay taxes? Public sector workers pay taxes too, you ignorant fuck. If I were getting taxpayer money, which I’m not, some of that money would come from taxes I paid.
I really should score you three out of five, because you fucked up TWICE in your last, ridiculous statement.
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“You Don’t get, do you?” Commentby Don\’t Tread on Me— 6/30/06@ 3:23 pm
What I “get” is that so-called “tax protests” use the argument that the 16th Amendment wasn’t ratified to justify tax evasion, and what they “get” is a federal cell.
34
You didn’t say anything in your first post about exempting the first $100,000 of income (or, more accurately, taxing the first $100,000 at a 0% rate).
What you now have, of course, is a multi-rate progressive income tax. Welcome aboard. Now all we need to argue about is how much the bottom and top rates will be.
Of course, even with a 0% income tax rate, the $35,000 family of four is still paying 7.65% of their income in federal taxes. But the point I’d really like to discuss is the 10% figure you threw out.
I’m well aware that you didn’t snatch the “10%” out of thin air. Proponents of a flat tax love to use this pie-in-sky number to promote their beloved tax scheme. Evidently they hope that by low-balling it, more people will fall for it.
The 10% figure doesn’t compute. Federal spending is roughly 20% of national income. There’s no way in hell you can raise this sum with a tax whose top rate is 10%. You would have to eliminate half of all federal spending, which means, among other things, getting rid of the entire defense budget (since a big part of the rest is interest on the national debt). If you tax income below $100,001 at 0%, it’s probably more like 75%. I’m not sure what the tax rate would have to be with a $100,000 exemption, but I’m guessing that to balance the budget at a typical spending level of 21% of GDP, the rate would have to be around 40%.
This is the first big fallacy of the flat tax proponents’ arguments: They low ball the rate. If you taxed EVERY dollar of income, the rate would have to be no less than 20%. If you exempt even the first $10,000 of income, the minimum rate necessary to raise the needed revenue goes considerably higher than that.
The second big fallacy of the flat tax argument is that it definitely results in a more regressive federal tax structure. There’s no question that it would shift some tax burden from those most able to pay to those less able to pay — even with an income exemption. That’s the whole point, in fact. The flat tax idea is supported by rich folks who would pay less under a flat tax scheme while the middle class and upper middle class pays more. I say “middle class” because there’s no way Congress would ever enact a $100,000 exemption. The government would simply lose too much revenue. Even with a 25% tax rate, a $25,000 exemption would be problematical and a $50,000 exemption out of the question. Any flat tax scheme capable of raising enough revenue to balance the budget without profoundly deep cuts to defense spending is going to hit the middle class pretty hard.
That’s why I’m against it.
However, if we’re going to have a flat tax with a $100,000 exemption, then inheritances should be counted as income, and if you have no other income, the first $100,000 that you inherit in a given year would be exempt and the rest would be taxed at whatever the flat tax rate is.
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“Bush tax cuts helped America stay out of a massive recession immediately following 9/11.” Commentby sgmmac— 6/30/06@ 3:36 pm
This isn’t true. The reason it’s not is because over 90% of the Bush tax cuts went to the wealthy investor class, but the economy didn’t need more investment — it already had under-utilized capacity, and creating more idle capacity creates zero growth. What the economy lacked was consumer spending, and Bush’s tax cuts would have done far more to create jobs and growth if 90% of them had gone to the working class and middle class. Ironically, the tax cuts for the rich that helped the economy the most was the money spent on lavish consumption, such as mansions. But Bush’s argument was giving tax cuts to the rich would stimulate investment. What it actually did was flood the investment markets with cash, driving down interest rates for all investors. There was too much money looking for borrowers, and not enough consumer spending to create demand by businesses for money. Many economists have remarked on how little the Bush tax cuts stimulated the economy relative to their size.
The second part of the Bush tax cut story is they weren’t paid for by cutting spending. Bush actually increased spending at a torrid pace — over 12% a year, compared to an average of 4% spending growth under Clinton. (So much for GOP claims of fiscal conservatism.) The Bush tax cuts were entirely paid for by increasing the national debt, which is going to have several very ugly consequences down the road:
1) First of all, the main purchaser of that debt is China, who is using the U.S. taxpayer dollars we send to them as interest to raise their standard of living. The Chinese are buying up all the construction materials they can get. That’s why lumber, cement, steel, and virtually all other metals have doubled or tripled in price recently. The Chinese are buying cars, and buying oil to fuel their cars. That’s part of the reason why worldwide demand for oil increased from 77 million bpd to 85 million bpd between 2000 and 2005, resulting in a tripling of oil prices.
2) Secondly, deficit spending leads to monetary inflation, which in turn leads to high interest rates and high unemployment. LBJ and Nixon set the stage for the inflation of the 1970’s and the 1981-1983 Reagan Depression (with double-digit unemployment) by putting the Vietnam War on a credit card. Bush is pursuing exactly the same reckless fiscal policies, and it’s going to have exactly the same consequences: Teeth-clenching inflation and a depression (with a “d”, not recession with an “r”).
3) The economy experienced a net loss of jobs during the first three years of the Bush administration. Economists say about half of all jobs created since then are directly related to the housing boom. However, in most places, the housing boom is either over or is slowing down. But what’s worse is this housing boom was fueled in part by reckless landing, and the country is now set up for another S & L – type debacle. The reason is many of the people who paid these high prices for housing did so by going on a financial limb — no or low down payments, and interest only or adjustable rate loans. I read an article today that said about half the people in America with ARMS are going to see their mortgage payments double over the next two years, and many of these loans will be at risk. The same article said that about 1 in 7 of adjustable-rate mortgages will go into default over the next several years. Another problem is that as interest rates rise and the market runs out of solvent buyers, the people who paid these high prices will not be able to sell for a gain or even break-even. Roughly one-fourth of all home purchases were made by speculators, and the market is now flooded with empty rentals. The huge oversupply of rental houses will drive down rents, and some of the speculators who bought “investment” properties will not be able to meet the payments on these properties. They will not be able to reap the expected appreciation, either. The stage is set for a mortgage lending crisis in the United States, and if it’s bad enough, it could require a multi-trillion-dollar government bailout to prevent the collapse of the banking system.
35
And, of course, when the housing market shuts down, so will the economy’s only job engine of the Bush years.
Rep Pat (JCH),
While my fellow thinker and Liberal, Roger Rabbit, engages you in debate that you have trouble answering with coherent remarks, I, Carl Grossman, have decided today that I want to be a blog thug.
So, fuck you. Fuck you and the hatred that you spout. Fuck you, fuck your party, fuck your ideals of selfishness and greed. I am tired of playing nice.
Come November you will see what a less than 30% approval rating will do for your party. When both houses are again controlled by Democrats, you will see how things will get done. And your asshole president will be further exposed as impotent, unintelligent and weak. He is many things and presidential ain’t one of them.
Carl Grossman
Liberal, Proud and I am not taking RightWingNut shit anymore.
34
“GOVERNMENT FREELOADER” Commentby Libertarian— 6/30/06@ 3:28 pm
Obviously you’ve never worked for government, and know nothing about working for government. So let me explain how we “government freeloaders” make our living:
1) Nearly all government offices are nearly always underfunded and understaffed; consequently, government workers typically are assigned two to three times as much work as they can reasonably accomplish in a 40-hour work week.
2) They not only don’t get paid time-and-a-half for the other 20 to 30 hours a week they work, they don’t get paid at all for it.
3) They often work in crummy, outdated, crumbling buildings. Air conditioning, and even heat, are amenities that government workers only dream about.
4) Nearly all government jobs involved public interaction. Most of the public thinks the fact you work for the government gives them a license to abuse you. I don’t doubt for a moment that you’re one of the assholes who makes unreasonable demands and verbally abuses government workers. No amount of money is worth putting up with it. But, as previously mentioned, government (especially state government) doesn’t pay “no amount of money,” the pay is shit.
5) You get what you pay for. If you feel government offices are staffed with rude, incompetent, zombies — well, who the fuck else would put up with the workloads, crappy working conditions, and low pay? It’s very hard to attract quality people to government service, and even harder to keep them.
6) Nobody in the private sector has to put up with continual meddling and micromanaging by grandstanding politicians, but government workers have to put up with it all the time. Their reward for putting up with it is getting their program terminating and their job axed.
34 (continued)
Now I have a question for you, Lib. Would you like me better if, instead of working for government, I had gone into private practice and made a (rather more lucrative) living by filing shareholder suits against corporations, or filing tort suits against anybody who spits on the sidewalk? Is it your feeling that we didn’t have enough ambulance chasers — excuse me, I misspoke, I meant to say trial lawyers — already? Would you prefer a government run by bureacrats who get no legal advice, and who don’t have lawyers breathing down their necks to keep them from doing to you whatever strikes their fancy? You are a fucking idiot.
I forgot one thing. I am banned from (un)SP. I know Sharkboy reads this blog. He can’t help himself. Soooooooo
Sharkansky, GO FUCK YOURSELF TOO! You lie more than Timmy Lieman and is some plateau to reach. ( Now at least I am close to being on topic)
I am sorry Goldy, but these guys finally got to me tonight. I snapped, but in a good way.
Carl Grossman
Liberal, Proud and blood pressure returning to normal
34 (continued)
Just because I worked for bureaucrats doesn’t mean I was one. Bureaucrats were my enemy, and I was your friend.
34, 36, and 37
Lib, I’m glad I wasn’t the one who had to break the news to you that under your 10% flat tax with $100,000 exemption, a guy making $35 mil would owe $3,490,000 — not $349,000. Gee I hope this doesn’t sour you on the 10% tax idea. Maybe you should think in terms of a 1% tax. Never mind how we’re going to pay the other 95% of the government’s bills, they can just print paper money, right?
We should call Lib’s $349,000 tax the “Weimar Currency Plan,” because our money will be worth what Deutschmarks were worth. http://www.usagold.com/images/hyperinflation.jpeg
41
Roger’s a worthless piece of shit and a failed human being. Why else do you think he masquerades as a fucking rabbit?” Commentby Yossarian— 6/30/06@ 4:05 pm
Be thankful for small blessings. It could be worse. At least I’m not a Republican masquerading as a human being.
45
“the BILLIONS OF DOLLARS that Eyman saves The Producers”
What billions of dollars are you referring to, Mark? Lieman hasn’t saved the “producers” (or anybody else) anything. All of his initiatives have either failed to make the ballot, failed at the polls, or failed court tests. Lieman is a fucking failure.
46
“I’m wondering how you guys mix panty droppers… on a weekend like this I like good ol’ fashioned margaritas. But I’m wondering if you guys use something more creative. Can you share your recipes?” Commentby Mark The Redneck Kennedy— 6/30/06@ 7:18 pm
Mark, if you’ve got another FIVE HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS to get rid of, can I offer a suggestion? Pay Goldy the $100 you owe him. Save a soldier’s life by donating $99 to http://www.operation-helmet.org/ . That leaves only $499,801 to go.
49
Don’t worry, Craig, I’m ready for “waterworld.” http://www.dizpins.com/archive.....061605.jpg
59
I want you ask you something too, Stefan: why didn’t you share the loot from you lawsuit against Dean Logan and King County with the generous donors to your “legal action fund” who paid for the lawsuit? Is that any way to treat your friends and supporters? Oh wait, I forgot, Republicans not only fuck workers and consumers, they fuck each other too!
51
There is no argument in my post, simply stating the facts. I’m not forming a tax protest. I belong to no such groups or organizations. I do my own research and make my choices by conscience choice, the same way I vote.
I don’t need someone to tell me who, when or how. As I don not need talking points to speak my mind.
I’m simply stating the historical meaning of the constitution and what has become of it.
When this tax was first put into play, it amounted to little more than a buck or so per year.
In the eyes of the average voter of the day this seemed like that was the the least they could do. If they knew then of what it has become, I dare say, most of them would have seen it for what it was (is), an illegal tax.Then would’ve voted different.
Look it up for your self.
I have paid my taxes since the Sixties. I’m not a rich man (in the context of of your definitions). Just a father who has worked hard, made the necessary sacrifices, sent my kids to private school (even though my taxes dollars pay for public school) and am now helping them in raising my four Grandchildren.
My children and grandchildren have never been told or taught by me how to think, vote or make their choices as adults.
They are their own persons and make choices by studying the facts and making up their own minds.
My kids were raised knowing that Mom and Pop love each other and were there for them when they needed us. They know they are loved. We are still there.
It is in this context that I am a rich man.
So, please don’t confuse me with someone that you seem to know all about. You know absolutely nothing of me other than what I’ve just revealed.
However, if that is enough for you to size me up for some pre determined slot in your mind, well, have at it. After all, it is your mind.
What you don’t get, is that the cliffs are just past the ever closing horizon.
You Know, it’s not too late to turn around.
Quite an informative blog..
31 posts by Roger the Wabbit (State Pension supported and completely full of shit)
37 post by others when they could get a word in edgewise
WOW what a Blog!
“Again, I can’t prove it, but I’ve always suspected that Eyman has a financial stake in Citizens Solutions, or receives some kind of monetary “consideration”,” – Clownstein
Well, I have a theory Goldstein is a lesbian dressed as a man, but I can’t prove it. I theorize he may have escaped from a mental institution, but again, I can’t prove it.
We all know enough about the idiot ways of Tim Eyman. What’s troubling is the apparant idiot with money who is paying Eyman for this latest tax wasting stop everything stunt: Mike Dunmire, a world-class dope.
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