Obama wins Maine. And once again his victory appears to be both broad and deep. That’s four for four, heading into Tuesday’s Potomac Primary.
UPDATE:
With 99% of precincts reporting, Obama wins 59.5% to 40.5%. First contest of the weekend in which Clinton came within 20 points, so I guess she’s got the momentum, huh?
Oh Well maybe Hillary will still pull it off in the Potomac Primary, or the Socialist Democrats will be singing the blues.
Obama has support in the caucuses where working class voters are underrepresented and voters on a whole are underrepreented, and states with large african american populations.
How do the Obama supporters explain his “Broad and Deep” support in states where the last published poll taken within the last month show him only with 20% of support, like in Pennsylvania? Or show Clinton trouncing him in Ohio with a 10-15% lead? These are all states with a huge blue collar population, and Obama loses these voters by wide margins. And let’s not talk about Texas…
Maybe the kool-aid doesn’t flow as freely? Or maybe blue collar voters aren’t willing to give Obama the free pass that he’s getting in these other states without providing plans of substance and detail on how he will help the lower middle class and working class populations.
Obama – Where’s the beef?
klake @ 1 – Hillary will lose the Potomac Primary by 60-40, again, these states and district are states with large black populations, and if they come to the tables to vote, they will route her as their support is with Obama.
The Hillary camp has alluded that if she garners more than 40% out of any of the states and caucuses in February, then she is doing better than they expected her to in those states. But they have downplayed every contest in February as they know their candidate is not the front runner, they are trying to do their best in getting as many delegates as they can out of those states, and are looking forward to PA, OH, and TX. in March.
My error, I didn’t meant to include PA in that “March” list, PA is actually scheduled for April 22nd.
Back to my Primary thoughts on how much better she does with primaries and states without the traditional base of black voters that Obama has – Wisconsin (Primary on Feb 19th) just released new poll numbers after the Caucus results yesterday – Clinton 52%, Obama 38%, 10% undecided/other.
DustinJames
Are you suggesting that states with large African-American populations shouldn’t count as much? And, you weren’t at my caucus yesterday that had plenty of working class people. Expectations-wise, compare where Hillary is today with where she was a month ago, not with where she was a week ago. You would do well to keep your mouth shut about now; you’re looking foolish and not helping Hillary. Hillary doesn’t need support from people like you.
Maine? Washington State? Nebraska? “traditional base of black voters”?
Dustin, you may want to shut up. You not only are not helping Hillary, you are not helping yourself much either.
@ 6 – not at all, I’m saying that Black voters are going overwhelmingly for Obama – see the LA exit poll results, he netted approximately 90% of the black vote.
And just because your caucus was full of ‘working class’ people, you should have come down to white center, because even though we had a large turn-out, there were only 29 people in my precinct who turned out to caucus, 29 people in a low income neighborhood. I’ve been trying to find information on how many people voted in the primary for 2004 for the Marian precinct, but it doesn’t appear it’s available. I can guarantee it’s a hell of a lot more. I remember during hte primary in 2004 there were a lot more than 29 signatures in my district (and my district tends to go overwhelmingly democrat), there were pages and pages…
The information I do find is 35,348 voted in the primary in the 34th district in 2004, I can guarantee that far fewer than 35,348 showed up for caucuses. If it was 10,000, I’d be shocked. 5,000? Maybe.
I apologize, I realize I didn’t include the last comment in this post, I included it in this one here
To summarize what I said in that post:
So yes, Barack does better in Caucuses, and also Primaries that have a high turnout of black voters. Maine = Caucus, Washington State = Caucus, Nebraska = Caucus.
Her message resounds with working class and lower income voters, particularly because she supports things that speak to them, like a moratorium on housing foreclosures. Barack does not.
I saw signs in my block for Hillary Clinton, yet saw none of those people from my neighborhood at my caucus. I’d like to disect the results from the Primary for my precinct if they make it easily available, because I think it’s going to be exactly the opposite of what happened in the caucus.
If the “working class” people aren’t showing up, then who the hell are those people that showed up? CEOs?
Nice how the Obama supporters are quick to tell people to “shut up”. We’ll see how well that works if he pulls off the rout that seems to be shaping up when he’s trying to work with the right wing. (Better have big coattails indeed.)
Personally, I’m disgusted with the latent misogyny that I think allows so many people to buy into the anti Hillary propaganda the right wing has been chanting for years. Hillary is getting a lot of hate these days, and I am appalled. Obama is not as good as Hillary on a whole host of liberal issues (please don’t trot out Iraq at this point, that is a whole side discussion of how women in power have to project themselves) including reproductive freedom and healthcare. He seems to approach the right wing hat in hand, saying how we’re all going to come together now and sing songs.
His campaign has repeatedly basically said that if we don’t get the nomination, a sizable portion of our supporters will either stay home, or vote McCain. What a bunch of assholes. And listening to Dan Savage complain about caucus is extra golden, caucus is why Obama is racking up some disproportionate victories this weekend.
I think a lot of Democrats (with a capital D) have forgotten where we came from. The kids will stay home when they get bored again.
@ 10 – without going into the whole socioeconoic details that is detailed in the Wikipedia article, a lot of people define working class as blue collar, and not white collar.
Aaron, you seem rather confused.
I hope you don’t imagine that PL and I represent all “Obama supporters”. I felt Dustin should shut up due to the harm he was doing to Hillary with his poorly worded (later better explained @ 9) postings.
I, for one, do support Obama, but will proudly and enthusiastically support and vote for Clinton if she is the nominee.
To what are you referring? Are you confusing the wingnuts who post here, with Democrats supporting Obama?
This is very confusing. You seem to be saying that Clinton would support a war in order to seem “tougher”. That is horrifying!
But I do not believe that to be true. I believe Clinton when she says she voted based upon the evidence she was presented with. It was, in hindsight a mistake. But for you to say that Clinton voted for the war becuse she had to project herself as tough is a very damaging claim to make. Not at all helpful for Sen. Clinton.
Where do you hear such hogwash? And why would you repeat such an obvious lie?
Really, Aaron, I think we can disagree on who we want to be the nominee without resorting to this.
And we can do more good by pointing out why we support our candidate than by slinging mud.
It will really make it much easier for us all to gather around the eventual nominee.
It’s not surprising Obama has won another small caucus state. His campaign has targeted those states very successfully. The questions remain, can he win in the voting booth? can he win big states? Maine proves nothing in that regard. I tend to believe he’ll pull it off, and is the likely nominee, but it’s too soon to pronounce Hillary’s campaign kaput.
Side note – anyone check out what’s going on in Alabama? Obama won that state 56% to 41%, and she’s picking up 21 pledged delegates to his 20 pledged delegates.
Sort of interesting, and shows the sort of assinine system that is the Democratic system, because it just seems fucked up to me (yes, as a Hillary supporter) that she should lose by 15% but still get 1 more delegate (and these totals don’t include the super delegates).
Could it be, could Obama pull off what 6 months ago would have been the unthinkable?
RCP has him ahead in delegates, plus he has the momentum, but those super delegates have got me worried.
However, I think this is the only chance Hillary gets, and if she doesn’t win the nomination this year, she’ll spend the rest of her political career in the Senate. That’s not true of Obama. He could lose the 2008 nomination and run again.
can you really say that the anti-Hillary movement is really misongyny?
I don’t see it. I don’t hear from the people I talk to.
What I object to is Hillary’s use of Rovian tactics in her campaign. Yes, she’s backed off a lot of that now but it was going strong for awhile.
And Hillary doesn’t inspire me to really want to participate. I feel like she’s just the same old thing. At least she won’t be like George Bush but there is still too much of the old guard within a Hillary presidency.
But the one thing that really turns me off is that I simply don’t trust her, nor do I believe anything coming out of her campaign. I had this sad realization a couple of months ago when her surrogates were taking Rovian cheap shots at Obama and she denied that it was anything but one person’s unfortunate remark. Out of a tightly controlled Clinton campaign? Please!
It was then I realized that, just like the Bush admin., I didn’t believe a thing coming from Hillary’s camp.
I want to believe what my president says. And, fair or not, I’ll have a tough time believing anything Hillary says.
And that has nothing at all to do with her gender.
@ 15, agreed. Same thing happened in Nevada, although that time benefiting Obama.
But, if you look at the way the Repugs run their system, it seems just as crazy.
aaron@11….i think you hit the nail right on the head.and obama is very a naive candidate.he isn’t ready to run for president and i think we are about to see another “mcgovern moment” here. wishful thinking does not a presidency make……..
the states he is winning will NOT vote for him in the fall. and you are absolutely right about the youth vote too. they have proved, time and again, to be very unreliable.
and it won’t be any different this time around either……
Someone ought to call up KIRO 7. They just declared that Hillary won Maine.
@16 Associated Press puts the post-Maine delegate count at 1,135 for Hillary to 1,106 for Obama, including superdelegates.
@20 Obama is a thousand times better than any Republican.
Why I will vote for McCain (should he be the candidate)
As an independent, democrat leaning voter I have read the various “opinions” here with interest. I am one of those who think national security is important and we need to provide our military with all the support they need. Having relatives in Iraq right now is certainly helping me to reach that opinion. And knowing that H. Clinton was supporting national security more than Obama helped me make a initial decision.
But what really made up my mind was my experience at yesterday’s caucus. This was my second caucus and I was surprised about the way it was handled. While the last one 4 years ago was more or less organized, people talked about their preferences, this one was chaotic and hijacked by a bunch of radicals.
When I voiced my support for Hillary Clinton, I was immediately asked why I wasn’t supporting Obama. I gave a few reasons, but instead of listening, I was called a racist that I wouldn’t support a black man. I told them I could care less about the race or gender, that I was looking for a variety of reason, but I was constantly accused of being racist. They continued to do this to a variety of people who were Clinton supporters. This was not the party process I knew from the last one caucus.
Then I remembered the survey from Survey USA in yesterdays posts where the data showed: Support for Clinton and Obama was even for Whites (47% HRC, 47 % BO), but 13% for Clinton vs. 87 % for Obama for Blacks and 36%/60% for Hispanics. Combine this data with the experience I made during the caucus, I fear that their will be a big emphasis on race rather than qualification. The hostile environment I received during the caucus could have been a small group trying to force their candidate onto others, but the survey supports my suspicion that we haven’t seen the end of it. If Hillary Clinton wins the nomination either by votes alone or via superdelegates, how many will believe that she won because of merit, and not throw in the race card. This will be a sad day for the democratic party.
Add to that the issue that most of my family couldn’t even vote as they were unable to go to the caucus and the primary doesn’t count. The blatant disregard for the people by having over 700 superdelegates who are party people and can vote unrelated to the vote of the people, my view of the democratic party or at least the people running the current selection and caucus process is that we, the people, don’t care.
McCain has my vote so far…I get a fairly independent thinker supporting issues I care about. The mess the democratic party has created and how I suspect it will continue during the selection process is not something I can support.
Jim
Hey ghost! In a previous thread you insinuated that I got sick this week so I can get veteran’s disability benefits. Fyi, I have never applied for any disability benefits, VA or otherwise.
The trolls just can’t stand the fact that I always worked, paid taxes, supported myself, paid my own way, and got no freebies from the taxpayers.
I’m not a CEO, a corporation, a Republican, Clay Bennett, or similar freeloader. I’m a working class American and proud of it! I’m a giver, not a taker. I’m a doer, not a whiner. Something no Republican would ever understand.
@24 If you’re a McCain voter, what business do you have voting at a Democratic caucus?
@ 18, and what has kept me with Hillary is that even though she hasn’t taken the politically correct votes with the progressives of this party, she has at least been consistent, and not lied to your face to help her cause.
Barack has been called out three times thus far:
One, on his flip flop of gun control. Illinois, he said he supported making handguns illegal:
Click this link to Question 35a: Do you support state legislation to ban the manufacture, sale, and possession of handguns?
Obama answered: Yes
Yet in Idaho:
Click here to see his quote: “I have no intention of taking away folks’ guns.”
Which is it Obama?
Is Obama for or against Universal Healthcare?
This speech says he was “for” it
Click here for the YouTube video
but in the debate and his current policy on his website, he says he’s against it.
Obama says he’s for change, that Washington politicians are too beholden to corporate interests (loves to cite Clinton and Wal-mart), but let’s talk about his Nuclear bill.
Click Here for the NY Times Article
He lied in a speech, boasting that “the only nuclear legislation that I’ve passed.” and citing the NY Times here – was the one where he ‘introduced a bill to require all plant owners to notify state and local authorities immediately of even small leaks’
But, the problem was that bill NEVER passed.
Quite the opposite, he watered it down, caved to republicans, and John W. Rowe, chairman of Exelon and also of the Nuclear Energy Institute, a lobbying group, who, surprise surprise, donated to Obama.
Quoting the NY times again – ‘Exelon’s support for Mr. Obama far exceeds its support for any other presidential candidate. ‘
So he lies to constiuents about bills he passes, caves to Republicans on issues of important nuclear safety, flip flops on issues of guns and health care.
We were defeated in 2004 on the charge of flip flopping, and Obama is setting himself up to be swiftboated on flip flopping all over again.
So what is it Obama?
Just what this blog needs — another Republican pretending to be a Democrat.
@21 KIRO 7’s website is calling it for Obama.
@24: Thanks for your concern, concern troll.
And, although my last comment is waiting to be moderated (Goldy must have known I was saying something devastating about Obama), this comment will make more sense when it’s approved…
Doesn’t John W. Rowe look eerily like Karl Rove?
Check the picture…
@31 yawn
t.p.n. says:
If the “working class” people aren’t showing up, then who the hell are those people that showed up? CEOs?
Maybe you shold go to a real Union Meeting you might meet a real hard working person. Not the teacher union they support Socialist Democrats. These folks (Union Members) are what made this country but their leadership quit supporting their cause.
@ 28, yeah “Jim”‘s description of events, and the rational he uses to come to the conclusion of voting for McCain not only doesn’t pass the sniff test… it just plain stinks of bullshit.
DustinJames @ 15
This is because not all of the Alabama delegates have been allocated by the news media organizations. There is no “official allocation” until the state vote totals are officially certified by precinct AND the responsible state party officials make the delegate calculations.
Usually, some delegates are allocated by congressional district and others statewide. Precinct-by-precinct breakdowns are often not available until a number of days after an election. Several counties in Alabama are divided between two or more CD’s, including the largest county, Jefferson County – Birmingham.
So the delegates representing the CD’s including parts of Jefferson County have not been fully allocated by the news media. Jefferson County has a rather large Black population, especially among the Democratic inclined electorate, and Obama probably carried Jefferson County by an extremely substantial margin. Expect for Obama to be allocated several additional delegates and surpass Clinton overall.
The other twist is that there may have been a higher Democratic turnout in the CD’s strongly supporting Obama, especially among Black voters, than in the other CD’s in Alabama. The CD boundaries in Alabama are drawn so that 2 of the 7 CD’s have heavy Black majorities, while the other 5 CD’s have relatively small Black populations. With national convention delegates being allocated by CD, Obama can beat Clinton 56% to 42% statewide, but end up with a significantly smaller margin among convention delegates (or perhaps even fall slightly behind Clinton).
Dustin James @ 15 (continued)
I forgot to say that Alabama has 52 national convention delegates determined by the primary. So 21 for Clinton and 20 for Obama means that the news media organization in question was not yet able to project exactly who would get the other 11 delegates. When all 52 are projected (or later, when the Alabama Democratic Party formally allocates them), I would think Obama would have some lead over Clinton amongst these 52 primary delegates.
Roger Rabbit says:
Hey ghost! In a previous thread you insinuated that I got sick this week so I can get veteran’s disability benefits. Fyi, I have never applied for any disability benefits, VA or otherwise.
Funny Rabbit you earned the benefits while serving your country so why are you so proud not to use them? Our generation paid a heavy piece in Vietnam and deserved those benefits just like those fighting in our military today. If you problem is due to the Viet Nam conflict maybe you should check it out and quite being stupid. I have two friends and one family member who died from Agent Orange and they deserved all the help they could get from the VA.
@38 I don’t have PTSD problems anymore. Everyone I wanted to kill is dead.*
* Just kidding!!! Wingnut humor.
@39 The best bumper sticker I ever owned said:
“I’m A Vietnam Veteran And I’m Okay Now.”
Under that blurb was the phone number for the Vet Counseling Service.
So I would be driving through downtown Seattle on I-5 in a suitably ratty looking old car and, you know how drivers are around here, inevitably someone would crawl up on my bumper. In about 10 seconds he would drop back several car lengths. I didn’t even have a gun rack in the rear window. With that bumper sticker, I didn’t need it.
It was funny as hell.
DustinJames – I think you are mistaken. Take a look at Connecticut by County. Fairfield, CT (Mostly White Collar NYC Commuters) – Obama 52%, Clinton 46%. Kent, CT – Obama 61%, Clinton 37%. Litchfield, CT – Obama 58%, Clinton 40%. I could go on and on. If you knew the state like me and looked at the city results, you would be extremely surprised how Obama recieved the majority of support from non African American, and non blue collar.
And just the opposite, you look at some of the cities with more African Americans and Blue Collar workers, you would see the Clinton got the majority of the vote.
Ron Paul scaling back his campaign:
http://www.chron.com/disp/stor.....28537.html
Imagine that…his seat in Congress is in trouble. ;-)
In other news, great actor and mensch Roy Scheider died today at the age of 75, of multiple myeloma. RIP, Roy. “It’s showtime, folks!”
roger……are you tripping or something? i never said anything like that….can you quote me?
@ 41 – I’m just stating in general, I’m not saying that as a whole, all blue collars go to Obama, and vise versa. But, it’s one of those generalities that Obama has the white collars, Hillary the blue, Obama the progressives, Hillary the rank and file, Obama the college educated, Hillary the high school educated, Obama men, Hillary women, Obama blacks, Hillary latinos.
Again, that’s not to say that there will be no white high school educated latino women with a white collar job who will vote for Obama.
The Hillary side here seems not to understand that what we are seeing is a state by state campaign. As Obam,a comes into a state, consistently, he does better and HRC fades.
Why is this? Why doe shoe do better with educated people than with white workers? The answer is media. How do you reach “workers?” In the AA community you do it through the church. For non AA. it is harder and probably comes only via the mass media.
So, my hunch is that the pitcome of this year’s Dem race will depend on the advertising campaigns in the last big states.
BTW, the arguement that workers vote their own interests is obviously untrue. Reagan and his spawn somehow sold poor whites that racism and Jesus were more importnat than jobs. look at the havoc the driggies did to Hillary care with ads!
So, my guess is that HRC and BHO will fight it out over their suurogarte admills.
@43…Tlazolteotl…
Roy Scheider? Too bad…Check for his complete filmography here: http://imdb.com/name/nm0001702/
Never was a Jaws fan, but he had chops as a character actor.
The Piper
@45 AND BHO has the RR .. recovering Republican votes too .. THAT groupd may decide the 08 election!
@ 45 – I think if John McCain is the elect, you won’t see as many RR crossovers compared to Mike Huckabee, since McCain is viewed as more ‘independent’ and more palatable, which is a crock of shit.
And, @ 46 – didn’t Obama storm California? Polls produced by his camp said it was a virtual tie, and when it came down to it, he got nailed by 10%.
I don’t necessarily think that it’s him rolling into the state that helps, although arguably any visit by any candidate will help, I think it’s appealing to the base with the policies and finding the undecideds. If your base doesn’t exist in the state to begin with, like in Massachusettes for Obama and Clinton in Georgia, you’re tanked from the get go.
Rabbit@40 – Funniest bumper sticker I ever saw was back in the 80s. Remember when Jesse Jackson was running on the Racist platform? He had a slogan “Run Jesse Run !”
One of my buddies got one and put it on his FRONT bumper. Cracks me up to this day..
It’s always nice to have a representative of the Republican Party pop up and remind us all why we are voting for the Democratic nominee.
Thanks Mark the Retard Redneck.
Obama is a spin-master. Painting himself as the non-typical politician, chanting “CHANGE”.
Here are some things which the TV media hasn’t spent any time reporting (which they would have buried Hillary on if roles were reversed…):
* He lied to the Iowa voters stating he passed nuclear legislation which REQUIRED nuclear companies to report leaks…he did write it that way originally in response to public outcry. However, he re-wrote it…seems Exelor (huge nuclear company in Illinois) contributed $227,000. to his campaign and two of it’s executives are some of his top fundraisers. And his chief strategist is a consultant to Exelor. The bill NEVER DID PASS…but his revised copy didn’t mandate, but “suggested” reporting, and it stated that there would be no state regulation or oversight. He rolled over, and then OBAMA LIED about it. (Query NYTimes.com Feb. 3rd)
* he claims he hasn’t and won’t take $ from special interests or lobbyists…beyond Exelor above, there is along list of those meeting that criteria which he HAS taken $ from. Public Citizen lists 10 lobbyists he’s taken funds from including Commonwealth Edison (Exelor subsidiary). He has officially been able to state he doesn’t take money from lobbyists because he is refusing funds from the “registered” lobbyist, usually an attorney or consultant who is paid to represent the special interest. He instead is cleverly taking the funds from the special interests directly or the “registered lobbyists” spouses, etc. $170,000 from Goldman Sachs and Citigroup for example. (LA Times reported) The list goes on. This is blatant, calculated deception – cloaking the truth and skating by on a technicality. And it’s sickening.
– He paints himself as the bi-partisan champion, the one capable of unification…well sorry Barack, when we look at the record Hillary has sponsored 2x as many bills that attracted co-sponsors from across the aisle.
– He recently blasted Cheney’s energy plan, ooops…forgot to mention HE VOTED FOR IT in 2005.
– He suggests that he is the anti-war candidate…but he’s stated he would take military action in Pakistan. He forgets to mention he MISSED THE VOTE on legislation which Hillary co-sponsored (The WEBB bill)to prohibit the use of funds for military action in Iran without congressional approval. [And he wasn’t elgible to vote on Iraq in 2002, because he wasn’t in the senate until 2005.]
He’s slippery alright, and the television media turns a blind eye. Thank goodness there are still some decent journalist in the papers.
The caucus structure seriously disenfranchises citizens. I’d love to see a participation rate of caucuses vs. primaries across all the states. It took me exactly 10 minutes to vote in NJ. Constant flow of voters, but clean, efficient, moving line. And it’s an anonymous ballot. Which is sooo important. No concern about what one’s neighbor might think or say, one’s colleagues, even one’s spouse. It’s you and the ballot, behind a curtain. I can’t imagine standing in a gymnasium being told to move to this corner if I support candidate X. Who has the time to do that? Not the majority of people to be sure. 1.3 million people live in Maine. I think the caucus will show less than 2% of the population turned out…that’s sad.
I hope the superdelegates are noting that we vote in November, and the electoral college is winner take all, and most of the states Obama won are caucus red states.
@52 My, my such hostility. It was obviously a joke, albeit not a very funny one. You dims sure are a humorless bunch…
Shorter NJThinker and Dustin:
Waaaaaaaaaa! Just wait until Texas. Because the Texas voters are smart and liberal! Waaaaaa!
@44 I’m practicing acting psycho in case I need bennies.
@50: Still at it Dustin?
Hillary Clinton was embarrassed in WA : 32% is chickenfeed.
why has Hillary done so badly?
Well – her support for the authorization of use of military force in Iraq is one main reason.
Oh – and your Obama “called out” points – sorry completely false again. You are parroting Clinton talking points and it is starting to be boring reading the same false stuff – over and over.
Being against handguns is not the same as taking away hunting rifles – but important distinctions are not your strong point.
As far as Universal coverage for health care – Hillary’s main issue – why can’t she explain how her plan will be mandatory. Without mandatory coverage – she also does not have universal health care.
Oh – I would have thought she could actually explain her own plan.
Finally – tedious troll points out why the presumed front runner with all the advantages (Hillary) is campaigning so badly and has fired her campaign manager.
People simply don’t believe Hillary. She sits on the board of Walmart and claims to be pro working person. She does the politically expedient thing – and votes for war in Iraq – andd then refuses to say she was wrong.
Oh – and she voted against the tougher earmark amendment too.
No – I would love to see a woman president – just not Hillary. She has too many negatives and does much worse against McCain. If the conservative troll above really wanted security for our country – he would vote for a person who followed their beliefs and spoke out against an unecessary war that has killed close to 4,000 of our best, injured close to 30,000 and bankrupted our country – FOR NO REASON. Sadaam was NEVER a threat to us.
Vote for McCain – and get more of the same as bush – and where is bin Laden and why aren’t we going after the regrouping al Qaeda and taliban?
The rest of the world will not support bush (we can’t even get europeans to trust us in Afghanistan and our military is too thin due to Iraq) and the world and this country will not support McCain as an extension of Bush term 3.
Can any of your marxists explain to me how the fuck you get a tax “rebate” if you don’t pay any fucking taxes in the first place?
I just looked at the “stimulus” package that just passed. I’m not even close to qualifying, yet people in my bracket pay the overwhelming majority of taxes.
Tell me how the fuck that is “fair”?
@51 I heard that one several years ago. Pay your gambling debt. It’s not funny either.
I-Burn
“It was obviously a joke, albeit not a very funny one. You dims sure are a humorless bunch…”
I didn’t laugh at a “not very funny joke” and that makes ME humorless?
Boy, you Repugs sure a stupid bunch.
The #1 funny license plate holder is the one on Redneck’s car. It says: “My other car is a piece of shit too.”
@54 Au contraire, we’re a lighthearted bunch. We don’t even have you traitors arrested, rendered, and waterboarded. We simply laugh at you.
Mark the Retard Redneck, why do you think Bush pushed for the “rebate” checks in the first place?
And the reason you don’t qualify Retard is because you lost all your money in alimony and bad gambling debts.
@58 Same way big corporations do.
SeattleJew says:
The Hillary side here seems not to understand that what we are seeing is a state by state campaign. As Obam,a comes into a state, consistently, he does better and HRC fades.
You make a great point maybe the love fest that the local media is having a big effect for Obama.
Why is this? Why doe shoe do better with educated people than with white workers? The answer is media. How do you reach “workers?” In the AA community you do it through the church. For non AA. it is harder and probably comes only via the mass media.
Hillary can still reach the voting public by using the grass roots approach and challenging the mast media. That will end the love fest they have with Obama and allow the voters decide who the next President will be even if its’ a Republican.
So, my hunch is that the pitcome of this year’s Dem race will depend on the advertising campaigns in the last big states.
The outcome of any race comes with the Electoral College not the popular vote and states like Washington will have little if any impact on this election.
BTW, the arguement that workers vote their own interests is obviously untrue. Reagan and his spawn somehow sold poor whites that racism and Jesus were more importnat than jobs. look at the havoc the driggies did to Hillary care with ads!
Seattle Jew you might make amines, and get a better understanding about God for those who believe in him will decide who will governed this Nation like it or not. Racism and homophobic are dirty words that the Democrats should drop from their vocabulary if they want to win the middle class votes. Now the Democrat Party lost the working class when they crawled into bed with the far left. Now the Blue collar workers have been without a party for many years thanks to the Socialist.
So, my guess is that HRC and BHO will fight it out over their suurogarte admills.
No the cleverest will be the next winner in the battle for the Socialist Democrat Party and Hillary will pull out all the stops to win.
@58 Check again. You still get $300 even if you don’t make $3,000 a year.
@24,
Ignore that one folks, it is sock puppetry. I don’t think any Democrat is going to vote for McCain.
How about why a Republican will not vote for McCain?
Why I won’t vote for McCain:
1) Open borders policy and shamnesty.
2) Wants to eliminate waterboarding.
3) Embraces the liberal fake global warming. Take a look at I-90. We could USE some global warming. There is no scientific evidence to support anthropogenic theory of global warming. Those making the claims, such as Al gore are not climatologists and are not scientists at all. Many of the supposed signers of the UN report have asked for their names to be removed. We have seen this chicken little attempt at fear based power grabs before, in 1975 Newsweek published a story that told of the impending global ice age!
4) Unindicted co-conspirator of the Keating 5.
5) Gang of 14.
6) McCain Feingold.
7) McCain Kennedy.
8) McCain has stated Americans are too lazy to pick lettuce for $50/hr.
9) Has snubbed conservatives in his own party every chance he gets – unless of course it is election time.
10) It is a huge insult of my intelligence to think I am so stupid as to forget all the reasons above simply because he say now, in the light of the campaign spotlights, he is for all those things that via his actions he has shown is not against.
Mark the Retard Redneck thinks that blowing his paycheck on pull tabs qualifies him as being in the bracket that pays the most taxes
@53: got your Hillary false talking points down pat?
He missed the Iran vote because of Harry Reid’s incompetence.
He never voted for Cheney’s energy plan – that was initiated by Cheney’s task force of lobbyists including Enron exec Kenny Lay in 2001 – get your facts straight – and quit parroting the false info on the Hillary web site.
The vote in 2005 was not Cheney’s plan.
Where is Hillary getting most of her money? Why does she have so many more big contributors than Obama? why is she on Walmarts board if she is pro-labor?
Just like the crap about Obama being aginst abortion – when he was working with NARAL. Gee -you guys will say anything and that is the problem.
Obama spoke out against the war in 2002 – Hillary spoke out like Dick cheney on the seante floor – empahsizing al Qaeda in Iraq and the already discredited nuclear threat.
How is Hillary going to campaign against the war when she was FOR it?
53 – VERY well stated. Exactly as I was postulating above @ 28 and in my comments @ 9.
@67: pbj
While I disagree with you on the issues – I like how you hold a candidate to consistent poitions on those issues.
The Blatantly Obvious says:
Mark the Retard Redneck, why do you think Bush pushed for the “rebate” checks in the first place?
And the reason you don’t qualify Retard is because you lost all your money in alimony and bad gambling debts.
02/10/2008 at 9:00 pm
You don’t give up and still using that funny handle. Now it is safe to say that all those illegals will not be getting a IRS check if they don’t file their taxes. Mark you have to file your taxes in order to get a check, not if you ever paid taxes. TBO is still trying to communicate with those still living today, so disregard all his dumb statements. But please give him praised if he screws up make a mistake and says something brilliant.
And and add to that the fact the guy told us in New Hampshire he didn’t understand economics.
Did anyone else feel a wind of stupidity blow by @ 72?
And in all bold no less.
Just an aside about the “rebate checks”. Of course it is nice and all to get some money in the mail. But in a nation where we are criticized for not being a nation of savers, am I the only person that finds it odd that the government is now stuffing a few hundred bucks in our pockets and telling us to rush out and spend spend spend?
And who here even thinks this money will reach people soon enough to have the desired effect, if you even think such an effect will happen?
Yet BOTH parties went along with it.
It is hard to imagine, but I agree with pbj @ 75.
And it is not like this money comes from nowhere.
Just a shell game pushing the ultimate collapse further down the road.
The Blatantly Obvious says:
It is hard to imagine, but I agree with pbj @ 75.
And it is not like this money comes from nowhere.
Just a shell game pushing the ultimate collapse further down the road.
Now you are catching on keep up the good work, you can still do a good thing yet today.
@60 No, getting huffy and indignant at an obvious joke makes you humorless. Well, that and heredity.
And as for “Repugs” being stupid? That coming from a dim? hahahahahahahahahahahahaha Uh, yeah….
@75: pbj – I also agree that it is strange for a republican adminsitration to be pushing money at us to spend ourselves out of a possible depression.
@54 Lighthearted? How about light-headed. That I’d buy. Tell you what, anytime y’all wanna take a crack at arresting, rendering, and waterboarding any Libertarians/Conservatives/etc… you go right ahead and jump.
Silly rabbit… trix are for kids….
@78: I-burn
Agreed – now who has been President for the largest budget deficits in history?
@ 78 “huffy”? “indignant”?
Where did you read that into my comment @ 52?
I-Burn, I guarantee you, you haven’t seen me “huffy” and “indignant” yet!
LOL
correctnotright says:
@75: pbj – I also agree that it is strange for a republican adminsitration to be pushing money at us to spend ourselves out of a possible depression.
02/10/2008 at 9:23 pm
Maybe they know something we don’t? From my vantage point I see bankruptcy will be the only way out. Unless you control spending somewhere in the government, maybe that is their plan?
20
The only wishful thinking, if you can call it thinking, is the above statement. Another McGovern moment? The only candidate who will suffer this is McCain. Should not have embraced Bush’s Iraq policy. Death knell for him.
ghost just keep pretending how good looking your husband is and know this: 1. Your party is not getting the White House. The people are speaking. Your party is not energized. You are the party of crooks and liars and child molesters.
Enjoy the next eight years. President Obama or President Clinton, get used to it.
Will someone please check the window? That wind of stupidity is still blowing @ 83
I dunno @ 69 – Energy Justice was a pretty liberal left leaning ‘progressive’ site that produced this on the energy policy bill that Obama voted for:
Click Here for Energy Justice Google Cache
@ 69 – if he’s ‘for abortion’ then why did he vote ‘present’ instead of ‘yes’ on 5 abortion bills in the illinois state senate?
@ 69 – Why did Obama take hundreds of thousands of dollars from nuclear energy company execs and it’s employees, while watering down a bill on Nuclear leaks that basically made it worthless? That is, why did he do it when he says he’s not ‘beholden to special interest groups?’
@ 69 – Hillary spoke out in favor of women and progress at wal-mart during her board of director time. A lot of times, people try to get on the board of directors to exert influence to change things.
However, since you bring up Wal-Mart, what about
Mr Obama’s own connections with Wal-Mart?
Barack’s wife Michelle resigned from the Board of Director’s of one of Wal-Mart’s leading suppliers – Treehouse Foods, a position she had held for two years.
Michelle Obama cited increased demands on her time for resigning the position, which she had held since the summer of 2005.
Increased demands on her time? Like what, spending more time fielding question from union activists as to why she is taking money from a union hating company like Wal-Mart? Why was Treehouse acceptable in 2005 and not in 2007? If Wal-Mart is such an evil corporation, why was it ok take the position in the first place?
This is so transparent and bogus. They got caught with their hands in the Wal-Mart cookie jar and now they are backing away and trying to make things right, in appearance only, for the union activists in the Democrat party.
The Obama’s positions on Wal-mart: The money was ok by us until you all noticed we were taking it.
Barack Obama was supposed to be different. When he burst onto the scene with a speech at the Democrat Convention in Boston in 2004, the media breathlessly reported that this was an up-and-coming star. The humble man himself said he was all about “a new kind of politics”.
Well, after one-third of one term in office, we now know that Barack Obama is just another Beltway politician. He is politics as usual. There is nothing new or different about Barack Obama, he’s just like the rest of them.
His concern for the environment only goes so far
Barack is out pushing coal-to-liquid technology, hardly something at the top of mind for the environmental activists today. Charley Blandy of Massachusetts leading liberal blog Blue Mass Group had this to say about Barack earlier this week:
Could it be any clearer? Obama says global warming is a threat to our way of life, to our very existence. Unless, of course, there is a pork project heading to Barack’s home state, then, well, do we need to be so rigid in our thinking of how we approach the problem?
Change – my ass.
And you kool-aid drinkers lap it up like sheep who blindly follow.
The Blatantly Obvious says:
Will someone please check the window? That wind of stupidity is still blowing @ 83
02/10/2008 at 9:30 pm
You will not get your merit bag tonight so maybe you should excuse yourself and go to bed.
Err, I meant to update that to ‘Two Thirds’, not one third.
75 – Your chimp proposes disastrous policies and the Dems go along other Faux Noise and the other right wing scream outfits talk shit.
When the Dems are in charge, you’ll still talk shit but because the Dems have the reigns of power that’s all you can do.
Right now, the Dems are just being “the loyal opposition”.
Oh and if the Dems could override Chimpy’s vetos, things would indeed be different.
Why has Obama refused to produce documents or disclose:
– His Columbia University Transcripts. (has refused so far)
– A list of friends, roommates and bosses during your time in New York. By the way this is required for a security clearance. (has refused so far)
– Documents regarding his time in the Illinois Senate. (Obama refused and now says the documents were lost)
– The documents concerning your his purchase and the purchase of the lot next door and the subsequent purchase of part of that lot by Obama.
– A document showing how he handled the “gift” from Rezcko on your house purchase. (If not on his tax return during the year you purchased your house then you have violated federal law?
– A transcript of the conversations that he had as a sitting U.S. Senator with Railla Odinga while he was running for the presidency of foreign government( Kenya).
– An explanation of your wherabouts during the period Nov 3 through Nov 8, 1999, while a State Senator from Illinois.
A primary contributor for Obama from the beginning of his career has been Rezko. Rezko also has close ties with Auchi…who has been found guilty by of deals relating to nuclear plants in Iraq.
Rezko said he couldnt pay for the heat in the buildings in Chicago. During that time Rezko gives a thousand dollars to Obama for his political career. I find it hard to believe that Obama didnt know about these conditions in his district,when the City Of Chicago was taking Rezko to court for this. Obama wrote a letter of recommendation for Rezko to get funding for his housing. Those letters are available to see at a website: taylor marsh.
Again, lots of spin about him being a new breed of politician…not reality.
@ 90 excellent point.
DustinJames says:
Change – my ass.
And you kool-aid drinkers lap it up like sheep who blindly follow.
Tell me who is todays Sheepdogs keeping the flock of sheep from getting into harms way? Like your statement on coal but lacks information on how coal-to-liquid technology will save the environment? Keep up the good work, because Hillary needs all the help she can get.
Wow, a really good scrum going on in this thread.
I like it!
@ 93 are you serious?
Coal to liquid has 17,800 tons daily of byproduct. This saves the environment as much as much as teaching sex ed in kindergarten makes sense, oh, also something that Obama advocates.
Sex ed in kindergarten? are you serious?
YLB says:
Oh and if the Dems could override Chimpy’s vetos, things would indeed be different.
02/10/2008 at 9:37 pm
Hey sweety Hillary will need that line item veto if she wants to get this goverment back under control. Now the Socialist Democrats already have the power to make things happen if the had a different Speaker of the House.
DustinJames says:
@ 93 are you serious?
Coal to liquid has 17,800 tons daily of byproduct. This saves the environment as much as much as teaching sex ed in kindergarten makes sense, oh, also something that Obama advocates.
Sex ed in kindergarten? are you serious?
Now this is what the Democrat Party really needs is a young chap with strong Passion in making real change. Keep slugging it out with these old hippies for they need a good fight.
Gee – dustin : I can look up all the false accusations I need too – on the Hillary web site.
I have yet to see you justify the true questions I had about Hillary and her actual votes….How is that Kool-aid?
Same old stuff – same old lies – and we wonder why Hillary web sites get more desparate as they start to lose.
Thanks for repeating the false present vote stuff on abortion – that has only been debunked about 20 times.
And I love the comparison – michelle obama is on the board of a supplier for Walmart and that equals Hillary being on the national Walmart board – boy, you guys are DESPERATE!
dustin:
Grow up – your pathetic drivel just taints your candidate.
Hillary is a basically good person – but she is not inspiring and people don’t trust her. She is also much less likely to beat McCain.
Spreading a bunch of false stuff about Obama makes you look small and fits in with Hillary’s say anything tactics to win. Grow up and try to learn how to practice politics in a way that will convince and not alienate other people.
@89,
Please tell me how the MAJORITY is the “loyal opposition”?
Face it, the Donkeys bought into it hook line and sinker. That is why people say there isn’t much difference between the two. Democrats control congress and if they didn’t want that to get to Bush’s desk, it wouldn’t be there.
Goldy: Nice update above. Are you following the TPM material on the Washington State Republican caucus?
The bitter irony is just …too much. Well, I am waiting for Dino Rossi to demand a recount for Huckabee, blame it on the KC elections commisioner and demand Luke Essser’s resignation – then I will totally lose it.
@80 “Tell you what, anytime y’all wanna take a crack at arresting, rendering, and waterboarding any Libertarians/Conservatives/etc … you go right ahead and jump. Silly rabbit… trix are for kids….”
Let’s back up a bit. It’s you Repugs who arrest, render, and torture (innocent) people.
It’s you Repugs who initiated talk of killing political opponents. So why should I make the first move?
So far, you fascists have been all talk, no action.
All hat, no cattle. Empty suits.
If you guys want a “crack” at us, why do you wait for us to come to you?
I’ve been waiting for you blowhards for 7 years. I’m still waiting.
http://www.jimhillmedia.com/mb.....lt-web.jpg
OK, so Obama’s on a roll in caucus states, and is only a handful of delegates behind Hillary, creating a possibility that superdelegates could decide this thing. What if that happens? — what if superdelegates, not delegates chosen by primary voters or caucus-goers, decide the Democratic nomination? Will that split our party? Will the loser’s supporters go home mad?
At this point, the best thing that can happen to the Democratic Party is for Obama to run the table in the remaining states and win a clear-cut victory so the party rank-and-file will have chosen the nominee.
I say Obama because there’s no chance that Hillary will dominate the remaining contests in the manner that Obama has dominated the recent ones. Realistically, Hillary can no longer win the nomination without a bailout from the superdelegates. What I hope for now is a quick and decisive conclusion to the nomination contest. I want ordinary Democrats, not party leaders, to choose our nominee. And that almost certainly means choosing Obama.
Hillary’s website has nothing about Michelle Obama being on Wal-mart’s board – you can check that out yourself, I don’t need to go to Hillary’s website to get her ‘talking points’, I know how to analyze and think for myself.
So here, let me answer your questions:
Where is Hillary getting most of her money?
Initially, 70% of her individual donors had capped out at the $2300 max, after Super Tuesday, she raised over $7 million in 72 hours from a bunch of individual donors. She also loaned herself $5 million in cash.
I have a breakdown of information as of December 31st 2007:
Individual contributions
$103,611,269 (90%)
PAC contributions
$959,719 (1%)
Candidate self-financing
$0 (0%)
Federal Funds
$0 (0%)
Other
$11,081,373 (10%)
How is Hillary going to campaign against the war when she was FOR it?
Just as she has been. She says she voted for it using the information available at the time. She was presented with the evidence, including classified evidence, that turned out to be false. Obama did not have access to see what the classified evidence was, and therefore, as he admits, he can’t guarantee he would have voted against it if he had seen the evidence himself.
She is campaigning on a promise to start pulling out troops on Inauguration day, she will not vote to allocate any more funds on the Iraq war without a withdrawal plan, and she has the better plan to safely remove all the troops from Iraq.
But now that I’ve answered your questions, let me ask you about the following, specifically about the Iraq War and your own candidates statements, if he was so ‘against it’ from the get-go:
In 2004, Sen. Obama also said there was little difference between his position and George Bush’s position on Iraq:
Or – While running for Senate, Sen. Obama acknowledged calling his anti-war speech “dated”.
So, he sounds like he was against the war, then when that was politically popular, he says there isn’t much difference between his position and George Bush’s, and says his war speech was “dated”, and now that it’s popular again, he wants to trot it out as if he’s been consistent on the issue the entire time.
Obama: A man who means what he says, until he flip-flops on that too.
@ 99 – you say I’m spreading false stuff – can you tell me what I’ve said above is false?
Roger @ 103 – You forget that the big primary states that vote in March and April that are leaning strongly for Hillary will likely push her in the delegate lead going into the national convention.
I disagree that it would hurt the party, the polls agree that whomever is selected, that over 70% of the democratic party would be happy with either candidate and will support either candidate.
@106 You’re assuming she’ll win those states. You’re overlooking the fact that polls as recent as 2 weeks ago were wildly off. I think what we’re seeing is an across-the-board erosion in Hillary’s earlier support and/or people flocking to Obama. I don’t think she’s necessarily still in the race by April or May.
His campaign has repeatedly basically said that if we don’t get the nomination, a sizable portion of our supporters will either stay home, or vote McCain. What a bunch of assholes.
Go look at the Gallup favorable/unfavorable ratings for Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama and John McCain.
http://blogs.usatoday.com/gall.....reall.html
Hillary generally polls at 45-50% unfavorable. Has for years. Obama and McCain poll at around 35%.
Look, I completely concede that Hillary has been shit on regularly by the press, for no good reason (the Shuster “pimp” comment is only one of many). But we can’t make that go away and pretend that it didn’t happen, either, and that we can fart rainbows and unicorns to make her popular. There’s a huge portion of the electorate she will NEVER reach, period- and anyone who isn’t part of Team Hillary (or the pros on her team, even) would realize this.
Quit being a tool and stop whining about Rezko. It’s very clearly campaign spin, and I’ll tell you why… Hillary and Bill Clinton had two BUSINESS ASSOCIATES (not just campaign donors) end up in the federal pen, James McDougall and Webb Hubbell. Can you say Rovian “hide your wekaness by lashing out at your opponent over the same weakness”? Look, Whitewater was bullshit, so is this, and that’s my story until a US Attorney who isn’t a Bushie tool starts indicting Obama or there’s a conviction- or I guess Hillary is doubly disqualified if Obama is?
And for all the bitching and moaning about Obama’s rhetoric- dude, were you not HERE for Ronald Reagan? I sure as hell was. We’ve finally GOT someone who matches up well with him in terms of being able to reach out to independents and people in the other party- and you’re pissing on him because… well, I dunno why, other than you’re naive and falling for campaign spin.
Is Obama perfect? God no. They haven’t invented the politician yet who is. And yes, Obama’s speeches to the public aren’t wonky. Go read some stuff by FDR and compare and contrast him to Obama and Hillary. It will become clear why good public speakers work more in rhetoric and emotion than 10 point plans. But fer Chrissake, we actually have a charismatic politician and public speaker on our team for the first time since Clinton, and one that the press actually LIKES since RFK, 40 years ago (and who unlike those two, doesn’t have a zipper problem)… and apparently he’s insufficiently pure to you folks. Get a fucking grip. Do you want to WIN in November? Or doesn’t the prospect of 4 more years of Bush/McCain warmongering scare the hell out of you?
Look, it’s simple. Obama’s from Chicago, and if he wins this nomination, by the way, he beats Hillary Clinton, who isn’t exactly a meek shrinking violet. He knows damn well politics ain’t beanbag. So this “vetted” stuff is garbage. So is experience, by the way- Hillary’s “experience” includes failures on Iraq and health care (the second of which helped throw Congress to the Rs, thanks so much, Bill and Hillary). And anyone remember Bill Clinton’s “middle class tax cut” and “stimulus package” in 1992? Yeah. Campaign platforms often aren’t worth the paper they are written on.
I judge on history. I see Clinton and Obama both as effective legislators, with Clinton having an annoying habit of “triangulating” on things like Iraq and flag-burning… but what distinguishes Obama is his use of the “bully pulpit” in speeches. The great presidents inspire. Is Obama guaranteed to be one? No, it’s a risk. But after watching the Clintons be part of “the era of big government is over” 90’s, I’m willing to take one.
And, Goldy, to your update, on Feb 19th, when Obama takes the Caucuses in Hawaii and Hillary wins the Wisconsin Primary, it’s going to be seen widely as a “brake” applied to his momentum.
Roger, I think her win in Wisconsin will reenergize the campaign ahead of those 2 races.
Texas: A primary state high in latinos.
Ohio: A primary state with a ton of blue collar jobs
Those are both set-up scenarios that she does extremely well in and are definitely in her favor. True, if he runs Ohio and Texas, it’s probably all over, if it splits, it’s in his favor, and then Pennsylvania becomes a must win for her.
I disagree that she’d be out anytime before the Pennsylvania Primary April 22nd, and unless his delegate lead is above the super delegate count, I think she’s in til the convention.
But, those are hypotheticals that I don’t think will happen, I think she’s posed to clean up in Ohio and Texas, and Wisconsin being advantage Hillary by 5%.
@102 “We don’t even have you traitors arrested, rendered, and waterboarded.”
Recognize those words? You ought to, they’re yours. What else could one reasonably assume but that you thought such action warranted. You truly are a master of the strawman, silly rabbit.
The rest of your post is baseless ranting, as far as I’m concerned. “the evil right-wingers threatened me first. waaaa…” The only threats one regularly reads on this site are from you, and the other truly demented types like YLB.
Correctnotright said:
“dustin: Grow up – your pathetic drivel just taints your candidate.
Hillary is a basically good person – but she is not inspiring and people don’t trust her. She is also much less likely to beat McCain.”
Why doesn’t dustin get it? He isn’t helping his cause by his posts. He should understand that Hillary, unlike him, is not a racist.
Just a comment, here…
This caucus/primary stuff Dustin James is spouting about how OMG THIS IS UNFAIR TO HILLARY is bogus, and typical of his posts, Clinton campaign spin. Obama and Hillary, if you add up caucus votes + primary votes, are at about 50/50, with Obama taking the lead this weekend (and likely to take a further lead before 3/4), and are about tied in delegates overall.
The fact is that if you look at campaign strategy, Hillary’s campaign expected Super Tuesday to decide things- their cash started running dry and so on. I think if you gave a high-up operative enough drinks to get them to loosen up their strategy was to win out on Super Tuesday and prepare for a November showdown with McCain. Well, they got half of it right.
It’s also obvious that one campaign (Obama’s) is playing the game they wanted to play- basically their playbook is a modified version of Dean’s 2004 playbook (activist base + Internet cash + piece together a coalition), except the press doesn’t hate Obama like they did Dean, there’s not been any “Dean Scream” to fuck him up, and Obama’s just the best stump guy we’ve had in 40 year (or at least on par with Clinton).
We will see how this “We’ll head ’em off in Texas and Ohio” strategy works. It didn’t work so well with 91ul1ani, but Rudy ran a monumentally terrible campaign of historically disastrous proportions, which you can’t say about Clinton. Obama has about 2 weeks to move the needle. I think he has a decent shot to do it.
http://www.realclearpolitics.c.....y-270.html
Uh, I haven’t seen any WI polls more recent than these. Got a link there, Dustin?
Also…
http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=716271
A state with lots of I voters… not to Hillary’s advantage, methinks. But we will see.
111 – I’m a racist?
That’s a Karl Rove trick my boy. Just because I’m not in your camp for your candidate, who happens to be half-black, makes me a racist?
w…t…f…
eponymous coward – Yeah, http://www.electoral-vote.com is one, their presented poll results are a little different, they show Hillary 50% – Obama 41%. I think they do a sum total of many different polls.
DJ
If you are “half-black”, then why the hell are you dissing states that have large African-American populations, like, for instance, Louisiana? I have to believe you are a paid Hillary person. You post a whole lot of horseshit, essentially talking points from her campaign. I like Hillary. However, even if she beats McCain, which is unlikely, we’ll have another 4 years of incredible partisan warfare. Do you think that’s a good thing? I don’t. Obama is the only chance we have at some sort of national reconciliation.
“She does the politically expedient thing – and votes for war in Iraq – andd then refuses to say she was wrong.”
Sounds like many of the factless positions taken by many of her and not her supporters on this blog.
DustinJames: “Mr Obama’s own connections with Wal-Mart? Barack’s wife Michelle resigned from the Board of Director’s of one of Wal-Mart’s leading suppliers – Treehouse Foods, a position she had held for two years.”
Good try DustinJames: The argument put forth doesn’t work. Is Treehouse Foods WalMart – uhhhhhhhhhh NO!
@116 PL, I think dustin was calling Obama “half-black”. Dustin just doesn’t write very clearly.
And when he starts on the “half-black” posts, he really should just call it a night before he causes more harm to Clinton’s campaign (which he very may well be on the payroll of).
Clueless_Idiot@89:
Hey 16%ers, you may need to stop calling Bush the Chimp. Better yet keep it up, chimp has better memory!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pag.....ge_id=1770
PuddyStudy: Smarter than a human? You 16%ers surely know how to pick your metaphors. Waaaa haaaaa haaaa haaaa haaaaa haaaa haaaa haaaaa haaaa haaaa haaaaa haaaa haaaa haaaaa haaaa haaaa
haaaaa haaaa haaaa haaaaa haaaa haaaa haaaaa haaaa haaaa haaaaa haaaa haaaa haaaaa haaaa haaaa haaaaa haaaa haaaa
Is PuddyBud off his meds again?
Puddy,
I don’t do well with racism. I’ve spent much of my career fighting racism, sexism, and the other isms. Do you know why? Because the Bible (and reason) tells me to do so. I don’t know how you can adhere to a political party that is pro-war, pro-execution, anti-poor people, etc., etc. I suspect you’re not a bad person. I don’t have a clue how you can vote Republican.
The fact Clinton just replaced her campaign manager suggests she didn’t expect this weekend’s Obama sweep and that her campaign is coming off the rails. Candidates don’t fire their managers when things are going according to plan.
@108 Shuster is himself a pimp, a nakedly partisan GOP shill posing as a journalist, and NBC should fire him.
TBO @ 120
You are correct. I should have caught that. DustinJames is truly an asshole to call Obama “half-black.” DJ, just crawl home.
@110 If all Hillary’s got in Wisconsin is a 5% lead, she won’t hang onto it.
DustinJames @ 5
I can find absolutely no evidence of ANY recent poll in Wisconsin, much less anything to show Clinton beating Obama by 14 points.
Wisconsin does not have party registration. So there should be a high number of independent voters and Republican crossovers in the Democratic primary. This will be heavily to Obama’s advantage, since he is incredibly inspiring and will greatly expand the Democratic vote.
@111 Oh, go fuck yourself. You wingnuts have been threatening us liberals for years. I don’t need to reiterate who said what. Everyone here knows it be heart. You slimeballs invented the traitor talk. All I do is mimic you guys, so you can see what you look like — and to mock you. It’s all empty talk. When you get right down to it, Republicans just like to hear themselves talk. They especially like to hear themselves talk tough, so they can feel tough, but they don’t walk the walk. Republicans are all mouth and no spine. A big wet glob of pussies.
@113 Dustin is a wingnut following the Coulter line. Even Couler is for Hillary now. Although I don’t think she really means it. Her book sales must be flagging, so it’s time to stir the pot again.
@128 Dustin’s just another wingnut newcomer with an inflated opinion of himself who thought he could come over to HA and show those liberals a thing or three.
Stefan must be handing out Purple Hearts to robo-GOPers who volunteer to get their asses kicked on HA.
When is the public and the media going to get that *working class* folks that the Clintons seem to feel are so threatened are simply low information, less engaged class?
They are riding on name recognition…it worked in the big states smashed together on Super Tuesday, it may work again in Ohio and Texas.
It’s pretty easy.
Oh…and for all those worried about Obama releasing his papers? How about this…he’ll release his when the Clintons release theirs…sounds like a good thing to me!
@129 “We wingnuts…”? Like to make generalizations do you? I addressed a *specific* comment that you made and the best that you could do was to come back with a generalization? Yeah, that does wonders for your credibility. Not! And you were a practitioner of law?
That isn’t even getting into the fact that you cannot prove that I have even said any of the things that you’re ascribing to “wingnuts”. So once again you resort to generalization.
Oh, and as for no spine? maybe you should keep in mind that you aren’t the only vet that posts here… Or were you making yet another generalization? Silly Rabbit…
Roger Rabbit said:”@108 Shuster is himself a pimp, a nakedly partisan GOP shill posing as a journalist, and NBC should fire him.”
Pelletizer, please have the Mrs get your meds fixed. This is another of your BULLSHITTIUM statements that I can easily prove so wrong. Shuster comments just before the Pimping Chelsea:
DAVID SHUSTER: It’s a very intellectual, cerebral comeback. But you know, at a certain point, the Democrats are going to hear this argument again, I think, if not from John McCain then from his supporters, and I think the Democrats are going to need to be sharper and a little more aggressive in the counter-punch and say “wait a second: the Democrats do not support surrendering to terror. The Democrats are the ones who wanted to focus on Afghanistan and not Iraq. Afghanistan the place that launched these attacks on us on 9-11.” So yeah, it’s a fine cerebral argument now, but, I think that a lot of Democrats wish that Barack Obama, and I think maybe even Hillary Clinton for that matter, would ratchet up the counterpunch.”
SHUSTER: I think it’s still too early. The head-to-head polls are interesting now, but I think Hillary Clinton still has an opportunity if she gets the nomination to use a lot of the money that will be spent in the general election on reintroducing her to a lot of people, who, I mean, right now it’s just Democrats who are sort of paying attention, and even only in half the states. Once the Clintons have an opportunity to reintroduce her to the entire nation in a general election campaign, I think her numbers go up.
Once again sucka you are a sucka. Your BULLSHITTIUM will be identified.
Hey MS Tlazolteotl, being you chose your name as the Goddess of garbage and filth, eating the filth, here is a comment just for your “consumption”.
See ya!
The BO: Off my meds? What you hate facts?
Your “BO” is getting to all of us! I am your deodorant!
Then Proud Leftist if you don’t do well with racism, let’s see your Headless Creighton Baril Col Biff Col Hanarhan, Piper pooper etc. Lucy denunciation in this thread.
When I see it, I can easily break bread with you and discuss the more important things in life with you over sushi, chicken curry, sauerkraut, tempora, etc. I’ve been all over and I like all foods!
As the Captain Planet cartoon ends “The Choice is Yours”.
Pelletizer: Nope on DustinJames. He seems to be cut from the same cloth as you.
He likes Heilary, just like you do. He gave us a long litany on why he’s for Heilary, just like you did. He continues to support Heilary, just like you do.
What? He used the Obama is a half-white comment and he stepped out of bounds? You step out of bounds all the time and us on the right are the only ones to call you on your out-of-bounds statements.
So Pelletizer and DustinJames – Pot meet Kettle.
I-Burn, careful now cuz Puddy seldom forgets. There are many vets who post here. Pelletizer is the most vitriolic because he has medical conditions that ChristmasGhost and I take into consideration. When you have issues breathing, less O2 gets to the brain, hence you can’t think straight and when you can’t think straight you post liberal BULLSHITTIUM.
Think about it. Pelletizer posts long winded articles to make a “point”. His legal arguments are pretty sound but when he ventures off the legal SLUT line, he is easily dissembled.
Ha ha, your Rove tactics aren’t going to bait me – you call me a racist simply because I am against your candidate. I am not against him because he is half black, I am FOR my candidate because I think she’s a better candidate.
*yawn*.
@26 Roger “Where’s the free handouts?” Rodent:
‘The trolls just can’t stand the fact that I always worked, paid taxes, supported myself, paid my own way, and got no freebies from the taxpayers.’
Sure you did. This is all completely subjective. Kinda like a personals ad; no one is ever ugly, fat, poor, unattractive, a freak, etc. They all sound like models and rich rockstars. Truth is Rodent, that whatever you have to tell yourself to try and be equal with the big people is your subjective fairy-tales. Sorry you’ve been exposed like YLB and his lack of employment, but you have. Your rantings ring hollow to most. (like YLB’s) Good luck to you Rodent.
I’m just curious about one thing. If the caucus system disenfranchises blue collar workers, how come so many African Americans seem to be able to make it to caucuses? Or are these only the rich upper middle class African Americans?
I also don’t see that Clinton is particularly better on issues of poverty and helping the lower middle class. Frankly, that candidate was John Edwards, who has already dropped out.
Sstar said:”I also don’t see that Clinton is particularly better on issues of poverty and helping the lower middle class. Frankly, that candidate was John Edwards, who has already dropped out.”
The first part I agree with. The second part you must be crazy. He was so rich he couldn’t relate to the po peeps.
sstarr – We had only 2 african americans show up to our precinct, which, based on the number of african americans that are in my precinct (my precinct is in White Center, with a lot of asian, african american, and hispanic population), is a really low number. There were zero asians, and no hispanics either. Scanning my entire caucus location, I only counted approximately 10 african americans, and I saw no asians or latinos, but considering there were about 200 people or so at the location across all the precincts, I may have missed one or two. The rest were all white.
I’m not sure a lot of African Americans are making it to the caucuses, as most of the caucus states have been in states with lower african american populations compared to states like Louisiana, Georgia, Virigina, Maryland, etc.
States with democratic caucuses:
Iowa, Nevada, Alaska, Colorado, Minnesota, North Dakota, Washington, Hawaii, Maine, Kansas, Nebraska, Maine, Wyoming. None really stand out to me as having a large african american population, but I’ve never been to Kansas or Hawaii, so I can’t say for sure about those two states.
chimp has better memory!
All he can remember is right wing bullshit and a million ways to loot the treasury.
@119: hey Puddy – I made the exact same point – Obama’s wife on the Board at Treehouse foods is NOT the same as Hillary on thye national WalMart board and not an equivalent situation. But it doesn’t stop Dustin from trying to make it SEEM equivalent …
Dustin: the present votes on abortion were recommended and done in cooperation with NARAL – that false charge has been debunked many times – yet you keep repeating it. When you spread false charges you ruin your credibility on anything else.
Haven’t seen you explain Hillary’s votes….yet. But attacking Obama is much easier than explaining your candidate. Hillary is starting to lose more as people get to know her and Obama is starting to win more As far as the polls – Obama has pulled even in most Democratic polls nationally versus Hillary and he does much better overall (including independents) versus McCain.
Keep dissing Obama and supporting Hillary – you are one of the people trying to elect McCain.
Please tell me how the MAJORITY is the “loyal opposition”?
Easy, Shrubya has a working right wing majority. A bulwark of rubberstamps in the Senate that have threatened filibusters right and left.
Then he has a bunch of Bush Dog Dems in the House to support him on veto overrides and other things..
This certainly doesn’t make Congress very popular but ironically this political strategy of letting Republicans be Republicans is working quite nicely for November.
In my view.
On the board of a supplier of Wal-Mart?
Really lame!
@144 In Rainier Beach we had an ethnically blended caucus. About 0ne third asian, about 30 per cent black, and the balance latino or caucasian. About seventy per cent of them were blue collar. They went overwhelmingly for Obama.
@149: In Dustin’s world only his caucus counts and only his point of view is the “real” one. The fact that Hillary Clinton won less than 1/3 of Washingtons state delegates – in a state with a small African American population means (to Dustin) that Obama only appeals to African Americans and not to the working class. Of course Maine, Nebraska, Idaho, Connecticut, Utah, Missouri, Iowa, North Dakota, Oklahoma and Minnesota are states that are very heavily minority too (sic). Even NPR this morning was following the same false dichotomy – that Obama is winning the black vote and Hillary the white, hispanic and asian vote.
The bottom line is that Obama is now winning most states by an increasingly large margin – and voters are not buying the attack politics of Dustin et al and Clinton.
Additionally, Hillary’s experience argument and “ready to go from day one” are not very convincing since Hillary is simply not that well trusted. Hillary may think she is ready – but the voters do not. And since we are in a democracy and votes count (except for the Washington state republicans), Obama is starting to pull away in delegates. By the time Clinton is competetive again – in the big states – she may have a substantial deficit and a record of losing for a month straight.
People may start to vote for the candidate who is ahead and has a better chance to win against McCain(and a more consistent Iraq record). As other comentators here have stated – a policy wonk speech is NOT inspiring and we have had democratic presidential candidates who have lost (Gore, Kerry) because they concentrated on the details instead of the big picture and on broad appeal.
correctnotright –
It’s clear that no matter what I say is not going to convince the Obama kool-aid drinkers of anything, other than me saying something like “Obama is right, everyone else is wrong, all things Obama are perfect and valid.”
Well, I completely disagree on many of his stances, including healthcare, social security balancing, and forecolsure moratoriums.
Since Obama and Clinton share nearly the same philosophy and have many of the same goals, it’s now a matter of how vs who. To me, Clinton’s stand on the issues where they disagree are much better aligned to my views than Obama’s.
She: In favor of a moratorium on foreclosures. He: Not.
She: On balancing social security – Eliminating the tax cuts that the Bush plan has enacted on things like Capital Gains, and raising the cap on the social security so that it affects only those in the upper class. He: No cap at all on social security tax, which affects the middle class.
She: In favor of a plan that would cover every U.S. citizen. He: In favor of a plan that would make health care optional for people 25-60ish, but required for people outside those age ranges.
Personally, I think her plans are better. And that’s why I support her.
No cap at all on social security tax, which affects the middle class.
$97,000 per person (indexed annually, by the way) is “middle” class? For what, Broadmoor? Microsoft engineers? Median King County family income is around 70K, last I checked.
http://www.census.gov/acs/www/.....14T050.htm
King County is one of the richest counties in the US, by the way. Pierce is at 52K on that chart.
If I made $100,000 a year, I’d be happy to chip in a bit more, (the extra 6.6% tax on 3,000 is $198) to make sure Social Security doesn’t go broke if it comes down to it. I don’t see why Hillary should categorically reject this.
We’re not drinking Kool Aid by supporting Obama. We just have different preferences than you. I prefer a candidate who was willing to call bullshit on President Bush in 2002. I prefer a dynamic speaker who isn’t hated by the media and has appeal to independents. I prefer a candidate who’s explicitly rebuked the Bush concept of the “Axis of Evil” and will be willing to talk to North Korea, Iran and others. I actually believe that framing universal health care in the context of providing access FIRST, and punishing freeloaders with “mandates” second, if it’s needed, is a good way to get the idea past the American public.
And you know what? It’s fine if YOU support Hillary. The way I see it, after 7+ years of being served shit sandwiches, we’re being offered a choice of two different flavors of ice cream (Barack and Hillary), or 4 more years of shit sandwiches (McCain). We should be happy that we get ice cream instead of shit sandwiches, instead of regurgitating campaign spin about why this brand of ice cream sucks.
@151: the “cap” on SS that is currently in place is that people that make over 97K don’t pay in that portion of their income over the cap. Favoring removal of the “cap” means that everyone in that class will pay more into SS instead of just those under 97K/person.
Now that you understand the “facts” maybe then you can actually make an informed decision.
Correctnotright wrote: “Even NPR this morning was following the same false dichotomy – that Obama is winning the black vote and Hillary the white, hispanic and asian vote.”
Coeerctnotright, these people at NPR are part and parcel to the Clinton Crime Commission Party. They used the word gravitas on GWB, they parroted the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy.
What did you expect?
roger you are as full of it as ever i see. nice try at a save @44.
i see that you not only don’t have cable you also don’t have eyes or ears either with this ridiculous comment”@108 Shuster is himself a pimp, a nakedly partisan GOP shill posing as a journalist, and NBC should fire him.”
shuster a shill for the GOP? wow, you really are crazy. maybe it is time for those “bennies” as if you aren’t already taking them….good grief. maybe you could get some help then…..
my left foot@84..you, as usual, are not even worth reading much less commenting on.
enough said………..
eponymous coward – yes, middle class is defined as a family of 4 making $125,000 per year or less. See wikipedia.
@ 153 – I am already well educated in how the ‘cap’ works, thank you. I think that that ‘lid’ shouldn’t be lifted until $200,000 plus. Which is why his plan doesn’t strike me well. There are other ways to raise this revenue by affecting different taxes that don’t touch the middle class.
@ 45 DustinJames – well the percentage of “no white high school educated latino women with a white collar job” in Kent, Connecticut is about 1%
dustin@115……..look, i don’t think you are a racist based on any of your comments here.[you may be in person, i don’t know…but nothing you have said here even suggests it]
you stated a fact. obama is half black.
if stating a fact makes anyone a racist then obama will have a free ride this fall. and i don’t think any candidate should.
here’s a tidbit for you to look up dustin:treehouse foods. michele obama closed a plant in colorado that employed mostly hispanic workers. i think there were about 120 people that lost their jobs.
obama is dirty. really dirty. he has amassed more dirty connections in two years than most dem senators are able to come up with in two TERMS.
and he is going to try and hide behind his race/ethnicity. that’s pure crap.
he and hillary both are unelectable. unless of course he gets to hide because he’s “half black”.
but it still won’t work with the asians and hispanics. guilty white jews +blacks do not make up enough of the country to elect him. and that’s where he’s polling well…
it’s just math kids……..
proud leftist……”You are correct. I should have caught that. DustinJames is truly an asshole to call Obama “half-black.” DJ, just crawl home.”
okay….i’ll bite.
and why is dustin a bad guy again? try and put some real thought into this. last time i checked obama didn’t have a problem with being exactly what he is….half black.he could refer to himself as half white too…i’m guessing he wouldn’t appeal to you nearly as much if he did though….[who is the racist here?]
it’s not like dustin called him half american…which technically he is. his dad is from kenya, right?
so….those “facts” messing with your mind again?
correctnotright@146….classic comment from you! truly classic..
“Hillary is starting to lose more as people get to know her ”
where the hell have you been? mars?
and this is why the american people will not elect a dem to be the president. you guys are just waaaay too slow for words. the rest of us knew she was pond scum about ,i don’t know, 20 years ago?
160 – I understand the ultimate message on what you are saying in your post, but the knee-jerks around here are probably going to have a field day on how you said it because you were referring to his ancestry and not his citizenship.
Obama is 100% American citizen, because he was born in the United states, but from what I understand, his ancestry is 50% Danish and 50% Kenyan.
Or as he humorously puts it in his Autobiography – “[my father] was black as pitch, my mother white as milk”.
dustin….i really don’t worry what the chowder heads on here ever have to say. they make me laugh.
and dustin, don’t buy into the “if i talk about what is true i will be labeled a racist”
so what? whoever is doing the “labeling” is a nasty little social engineer that brought us the “hate crimes” great thinking.
are there any violent crimes that aren’t hate crimes?
i was almost murdered by a man [that happened to be black]…was that a hate crime? guess what? it wasn’t…i am white. now that’s what i call bullshit. and it’s insulting to every individual in this country too.what are they saying? that if you are a minority you are too stupid to know right from wrong? to be held accountable?
now i call that thinking truly racist.and very very destructive. as destructive as welfare.
if you support someone based on the color of their skin, or their gender…then you are just as creepy as those who vote against them for those reasons.
the real debate about whether we are ready for a “girl” president or a “black” president has already been settled in my mind.
we aren’t . after all, if people have to keep referring to their candidate by their race or gender…then we really aren’t ready. besides…i stick with my original point. unless people are going to choose their surgeon based on the same criteria…..then they shouldn’t be choosing their president that way either.
can you imagine this scenario?
you are rushed to the hospital and you need immediate heart surgery, but being the good little “citizen” you are you state that you have to have a woman surgeon. or a black surgeon.
the last thing you hear before you croak is laughter……..because you are obviously an idiot….and heart surgeons can only do so much.
obama by definition is a real african american…his father is from kenya. my family is welsh but you don’t see me going around intimidating people by correcting them “that would be WELSH AMERICAN to you sir!”
we are all JUST americans.and until that sinks in, well we still have big issues don’t we?
when you said “how you said it because you were referring to his ancestry and not his citizenship.”
i know what you mean…but here’s my point.
so??? is that not his ancestry? is he ashamed of it? no? then why should anyone else be. it is what it is…….
True, I agree with everything you said.
#125 Roger Rabbit says:
This is proof that everything the rabbit says should be thrown out with the trash. Even the most obvious is too much for him to understand.
Obama for president!