No doubt my friends in the establishment press are looking forward to a bitter and divisive brawl between Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton all the way up to the Democratic National Convention, but the truth is that even at its nastiest, the 2008 presidential nominating process has thus far been an extraordinarily civil war compared to previous campaigns. Still, while the candidates have mostly managed to stay out of the muck, their partisan supporters in the blogosphere are now poised to march into combat rakes in hand, the posts and comment threads of many of our leading blogs serving as battlefields in an increasingly bloody war of words.
To which I caution my comrades in the progressive netroots… who the hell cares?
There isn’t a nickel’s difference between Obama and Clinton on most policy issues, at least not substantive enough that it can’t be overcome by a commanding congressional majority, and both candidates arguably occupy the same center/center-left ideological niche. We may prefer one candidate’s health care plan over the other, or one candidate’s historical record on the occupation of Iraq, but both Obama and Clinton largely share the same agenda, and either would be far preferable to the Republican alternative. But most important to movement progressives like me, while both are good Democrats, and both have clear paths toward victory in November, neither is exactly what we would call a “netroots candidate,” and thus neither deserves the sort of unrelenting partisan passion that now threatens to distract our ranks, if not actually split them.
I personally like Clinton, and believe she has the makings of an excellent president… but isn’t she an icon of the very Democratic establishment we are all working so hard to challenge? And I do find Obama genuinely inspiring, and believe he may be able to deliver the kind of personal leadership we desperately need at this unique moment in our nation’s history, but… as phenomenally successful as his grassroots efforts have been both on- and offline, hasn’t he merely borrowed the techniques and technology of the netroots while showing little if any interest in growing our movement or building our institutions outside the narrow interests of his own campaign?
Both candidates have raised staggering amounts of money online and harnessed the power of the Internet in ways barely imagined just a few years before, and we should all be greatly encouraged by this shifting political paradigm. But Obama and Clinton’s Internet strategies have had little more to do with the progressive netroots than the surprising online success of Ron Paul. They are not, and never have been our candidates; they are merely the last two standing.
Nor should we have had any reasonable expectation of nominating a netroots Democrat in 2008, at such an early stage in a movement that will take at least another decade or two to reach full fruition. The presidential contest is necessarily the race on which we have the least influence and the least impact, and regardless of who wins, the White House is the office to which we will surely have the least direct access. As this campaign unfolds the blogosphere will play an increasingly critical role in helping to shift media coverage and shape the public debate, but the decisions of a handful of campaign strategists will be far more decisive in determining the outcome of the presidential race than we can ever hope to be in this particular cycle. The netroots are surely a force to be reckoned with — but in the context of presidential politics that sentiment is best conjugated in the future indicative.
It is hard not to get caught up in the hopes and passions of the race for the White House, but bloggers and other netroots activists must not get distracted from the long, hard task of building the infrastructure that will make a true “netroots president” a realistic objective. That candidate will come from the ranks of the House or the Senate or from a governor’s mansion, and that candidate must be someone who doesn’t just share our values, but who has also shared our burden in building a new progressive movement from the ground up. That candidate may be one of the dozens we are now working to elect this cycle, but we will never find out if we don’t succeed in putting them in an office where they have the opportunity to establish their credentials on a national stage, while working with us to build toward the future.
It is not that the choice between Obama and Clinton isn’t important, it is just that as bloggers we cannot afford to allow this drawn out nomination process to distract us from the House, Senate, gubernatorial and other local races where we can truly make a difference. These true netroots candidates can’t wait until the end of August for us to refocus our attention; they need our energy, our creativity and our financial resources now. Neither Obama nor Clinton can secure enough pledged delegates to seal the nomination, and so for better or worse, the decision is now in the hands of the party establishment. Let them deal with it, while we keep our eye on the prize of gradually and relentlessly transforming the party itself.
Do you mean 2012 or 2016?
Jesus Christ, Stalin wouldn’t be left enough for you crazies.
The big news today is that Bush vetoed the waterboarding bill and called waterboarding “one of the most valuable tools in the war on terror” in his weekly radio address, leaving absolutely no doubt about the identity of the Bushevik regime’s Chief Torturer. We should hand him over to The Hague for a war crimes trial.
Bush and Cheney face the amusing prospect of never being able to travel to Europe after leaving office (and losing their immunity as public officials) because they would face arrest and trial in that part of the world.
They are not, and never have been our candidates; they are merely the last two standing.
Truer words have never been spoken.
” … netroots activists must not get distracted from the long, hard task of building the infrastructure that will make a true “netroots president” a realistic objective …”
Goldy, most enterprises start small and grow with experience. Get your garbage can under control, then …
Rabbit, since when do criminals hide in Europe? I thought Paraguay, Brazil or Argentina served as those destination points.
BTW, I didn’t know the City wouldn’t pick up garbage cans if cars were parked in front. Where the hell are cars supposed to park anyway? Pick up the cans FCS.
@2 You oughta know — you Repubs have adopted Stalinism lock, stock, and barrel and made it the new mantra of your party.
How ironic that Republicans, who spent the last 75 years pretending to be staunch anti-communists, turn out to be Stalinists.
But then, nothing about GOPers is as it seems, and everything about the GOP is fake.
@7 All I’m sayin’ is, no European vacations for those two … as for Paraguay, I wonder what chimpface had in mind when he bought a 100,000-acre ranch adjacent to a military base there?
I wonder if that ranch includes Dr. Megeles’ old cottage?
…the decision is now in the hands of the party establishment. Let them deal with it…
Encouraging the notion that we shouldn’t encourage/discourage our leaders in certain decisions? In doing so, we can largely expect that status quo. What is the status quo, as far as what party leaders are leaning toward ultimately? Hillary Clinton. I have a hard time believing that people listed on HRC’s WA steering committee can even talk about reconsidering.
For that matter, are all delegates being notified by mail of the date change of the county convention?
An inconvenient truth about Al Gore’s IPO:
http://michellemalkin.com/2008.....nient-ipo/
15 B
If you don’t like it, don’t buy their stock.
I will disagree with you based on the fact that who ever is on the top of the ticket, the coattail effect will effect the performance of whoever else is running on the ticket.
Roger,
Didn’t President Bush actually veto a bill providing funding for the Central Intelligence Agency and other intelligence operations? A bill which also contains a ban on waterboarding and other extreme torture interrogation techniques?
So unless Congress overrides the veto, or passes a substitute bill that Bush will sign, or Bush signs a bill that he doesn’t like, there will simply be no more funding for the CIA and other intelligence agencies. Waterboarding is thereby eliminated, because the agency is defunded.
Since Bush likes waterboarding so much, I would propose a reasonable compromise. The congressional committee should schedule a hearing to demonstrate exactly what waterboarding is, with a live demonstration on national television.
If Bush and Cheney will attend the hearing, and both submit to waterboarding on national television, then Congress agrees to pass the bill in a form that Bush wants, without any restrictions on the use of waterboarding.
Sounds reasonable to me.
….Rodent picks Sen. Lisa Brown’s toe-jam out of his little teeth….
Mark1 @ 19
That’s hardly an insult. What is really embarrassing (to us at least, you probably think it is funny) is that Speaker Frank Chopp has his mouth firmly sucking on the BIAW member:
“Five o’clock has come and gone and SB 6385, this year’s Homeowner’s Bill of Rights legislation, is still stuck in the House Rules Committee thanks to Speaker Frank Chopp, who has imprisoned it there and kept it from going to the floor so as not to offend Olympia’s meanest, most uncompromising right wing lobby – the Building Industry of Association of Washington, which is preparing to spend millions to attack Governor Gregoire and Democrats in this fall’s presidential elections.
Chopp has refused to identify any specific problems or concerns with the bill, which was carefully rewritten by Judiciary Committee Chair Pat Lantz to give homeowners the same protections that condo buyers already enjoy.
If the Speaker believes he has weathered the storm, he is mistaken. Advocates of the Homeowner’s Bill of Rights aren’t going anywhere …”
http://www.nwprogressive.org/w.....-6385.html
Mark1 @ 19
That’s hardly an insult. What is really embarrassing (to us at least, you probably think it is funny) is that Speaker Frank Chopp has his mouth firmly sucking on the BIAW member:
“Five o’clock has come and gone and SB 6385, this year’s Homeowner’s Bill of Rights legislation, is still stuck in the House Rules Committee thanks to Speaker Frank Chopp, who has imprisoned it there and kept it from going to the floor so as not to offend Olympia’s meanest, most uncompromising right wing lobby – the Building Industry of Association of Washington, which is preparing to spend millions to attack Governor Gregoire and Democrats in this fall’s presidential elections.
Chopp has refused to identify any specific problems or concerns with the bill, which was carefully rewritten by Judiciary Committee Chair Pat Lantz to give homeowners the same protections that condo buyers already enjoy.
If the Speaker believes he has weathered the storm, he is mistaken. Advocates of the Homeowner’s Bill of Rights aren’t going anywhere …”
http://tinyurl.com/yulvhj
as phenomenally successful as his grassroots efforts have been both on- and offline, hasn’t he merely borrowed the techniques and technology of the netroots while showing little if any interest in growing our movement or building our institutions outside the narrow interests of his own campaign?
Are you nuckin futs, Goldy? (Don’t answer that, you have lots of trolls here who can do this for you.)
First off, Obama’s organization, when he is nominated (which he will be absent Atwater-style dirty trickery by the Clinton campaign) will be just as effective in getting local candidates into office as it will be for Obama. How could it not be? These people aren’t just going to show up, pull the lever or touch the screen or mark the ballot or whatever for Obama, you know, and they might not show up at all if their guy isn’t at the top of the ticket.
Second, even if he takes a hands-off approach to the Netroots beyond what he’s already done, it’s common knowledge among gardeners that it’s easier to grow things if you plant seeds and let them flourish than it is if someone is actively stomping on your soil (which they have been for the past seven years, but we seem to have grown up in spite of it).
And third, as for the difference between the two campaigns, if Hillary governs the way she campaigns, and I have no reason to believe she won’t, I don’t want her anywhere near the White House. Scorched earth policy? Blowing through millions of dollars on things like donuts for the staff? Hiring a strategist whose marketing firm is headed by a campaign working for McCain? The same old people running her campaigns doing the same old things? That’s not what I want. Maybe, just maybe, Obama wouldn’t be any better, but I’m willing to roll those dice.
You see Goldy, this is the problem I have with Obama-mania. They are willing to give him every benefit of the doubt, while they wouldn’t give Hillary a pot to piss in, in spite of the fact that, as you point out, there is no practical difference in their platforms.
Yes, I know she voted for the AUFM, I for one am willing to give her the benefit of the doubt that she would now do as much to get us out of Iraq as Obama would.
And yes, there are always the ‘same old people’ running campaigns. That’s how you get experienced people. A certain number of up-and-comers are going to prove their mettle, but look – now even Howard Dean is part of the party establishment, so get over it.
who the hell cares?”
Amen, brother.
@18 It’s typical. Bush delayed Democratic legislation creating the Dep’t of Homeland Security for a year because he hated unions more than he cared about our nation’s security. With this guy, politics and partisanship always come first.
@19 You’re confusing Sen. Brown’s toes with your ass.
Goldy,
Great post man.
What we really need to be working on is our local elections where Republicans might sneak into or stay in office, like the Pierce county executive (not that Calvin Goings is all that great), state attorney general (even though john ladenburg is a bit of a shit heel) and commissioner of public lands (peter goldmark is great.).
@25:
Mark1 wishes he were there to hear the shriek of crusty little old Rodent’s blood-pressure monitor….and smiles. They say some of the aged become delusional….
@21 ” … (which he will be absent Atwater-style dirty trickery by the Clinton campaign) …”
The Clinton campaign is embarrassing itself (and all its supporters), but the Obama campaign isn’t squeaky-clean either:
“The Clinton campaign … alleg[es] Obama supporters ‘locked out’ Clinton supporters from caucuses, filled out sign-in sheets before caucuses started, and called in caucus results before the … starting time.
” … Clinton lawyer Lyn Utrecht alleged that [her campaign] has received hundreds of complaints from supporters …. ‘We’ve identified witnesses and spoken to them,’ Utrecht said. ‘There are numerous locations … where Obama supporters have taken over caucuses and locked out Clinton supporters…. We have lawyers all across the state observing all of this.’
Quoted under fair use; for complete story and/or copyright info see http://www.newsweek.com/id/118 854
@22 “… now even Howard Dean is part of the party establishment …”
At some point in every activist’s career, we become “them.”
Since Obama has an insurmountable lead in pledged delegates, Hillary Clinton is attempting to steal the nomination. She can only win by convincing the superdelegates to overturn the will of the people. In other words, a nominee selected by party insiders.
Her Rove-like campaign attacks and the praising of John McCain at the expense of a fellow Democrat sicken me. If she becomes the nominee through these underhanded tactics, I have no doubt the party will split apart. I know I am one Obama supporter who will never vote for the Democrat in name only witch known as Hillary.
For example, in this campaign I voted for the party establishment’s candidate.
@27 If you don’t feel anything, stand with your back to a mirror and look for bite marks.
Not me.
Can anyone tell me what is the logic in left-wing ideologies? I’m a libertarian and I don’t get the whole state-is-best thing.
@34
“I don’t get the whole state-is-best thing.”
Neither do we, that’s just some shit the right has made up about us. We, however, do believe that there is a need for governance.
Obama could pick up a superdelegate in today’s special election in Illinois.
todays essay: right on, I in fact did not vote the primary, decided that at that time did not have a preference, now I’m a bit more in the Obama camp. And happy two have two, actually three before, great candidates
Good column. I’m ok with both democratic candidates. Like many they’re not the ones I’d prefer. S’ok, an honest and ernest effort to repair the damage done to our institutions will take longer than four years. Unless we’re extremly lucky.
I don’t really care which one I eventually vote for. I hope, and given recent attendence figures and some pols, its a reasonable hope, that the victor in the general election will be a democrat.
I’ve seen some posts by people who will not vote for Hillary,period,excalamtion point or two. The question I have,and some others,is. Who puts up the next Supreme Court Nominee(s)?
@4 Not to mention Brattleboro, Vermont.
I would be happy with either Obama, or Clinton as President. But I do believe that an Obama candidacy would be much more effective in strengthening the tsunami of Democratic wins in the House, Senate and Govenerships up for grabs this year.
And while the positions of both Clinton and Obama are very close, neither will have a good chance of enacting positive change without a large majority of Democrats in both houses.
Besides that, there is the fact that the race is over. Obama has won, and continuing this primary fight only works to the Repugs benefit. And if we have a brokered convention, it can only end badly and then the chances of picking up a larger Democratic majority in congress get slimmer.
3 & 4. You speak the truth.
Remember Simon Wiesenthal, the fellow who pursued various war criminals until right up to his death?
Some day, probably a long way down the road, a whole bunch of Bush Crime Family members WILL be tried at The Hague. No thinking person can doubt that there are documents specifically linking them to internationally recognized war crimes. We must be reminded that instructing somebody to commit war crimes is a war crime itself.
Fellows like Mr. Wiesenthal will pursue war criminals just like he did–right up to a few weeks before he died.
Sounds like it’s time to “chop Chopp”.
Obama v. Clinton: who the hell cares? YOU HAVE THAT RIGHT.
@ 41 Agreed. This is the only way we can truly overcome the madness this administration has wrought. The have to be held accountable so no later tin plated fraternity brothers like the Bush Crime family will even think of doing these crimes against the constitution and humanity again.
Netroots, schmet-roots. If the powers that truly be had any idea that the Internet presented a real threat to them, we’d see all the progressive organizations’ domains yanked out from under them in a New York minute. They’re figuring (probably correctly) that all too many of us are going to keep jerking off in our blogs and message boards instead of getting out in the real world and making phone calls and knocking on doors and actually working to get someone elected who had a fucking trace of integrity.
What a bunch a suckers!
“You guys suck up to anything Goldy writes. “There is a nickels worth of difference between Clinton and Obama”, that, is a laugher.
One voted to allow cluster bombing civilian populations. One voted for the war. One was for NAFTA before she was against it. Kyl/Lieberman? One voted for that enthusiasically.
“One the other hand….
The other brings independents into the party, maybe something important if you like the thought of a filibuster proof Democratic Senate. The other filled Key Arena, to the point where they had to turn away 3-5 thousand people.
While Clinton was a corporate lawyer at Walmart, Obama was working for working class people.
Can’t you people see the train wreck happening? Clinton is going to take this to the convention, and divide the party, whether she gets the nomination or not. That is the result of the identity politics that she has made her hole card.
“Vote for me because I am a woman”, what a crock of shit!
How can you people allow this kind of crappola, wishy washy posting from Goldy, and not call him on it.
No difference between Clinton and Obama? Here is the difference: One is perfectly willing to drive this party over a cliff, because she feels she is entitled to the nomination. The fact is, she thought the nomination process would be about her riding a gilded carriage to Denver, had all the advantages, and fucking blew it.
Time to go, for the sake of the Democratic Party, Hillary.
“Since Obama has an insurmountable lead in pledged delegates …”
He also has less than the majority of delegates required to win the nomination, dipshit! What do you do if neither candidate wins a majority?
@34 How about if you explain why you’re attracted to fascist ideologies.
Upton: Her Rove-like campaign attacks and the praising of John McCain at the expense of a fellow Democrat sicken me.
Read a column in which the notion that she wouldn’t mind giving McCain one term rather than lose to Obama. After his one term, she’d run again. McCain is older than Cain and would be good for one term. Obama would be good for two which puts her pretty much out of the game.
Ya think?
@41 Along those lines, a German prosecutor is reopening the case of an 86-year-old Dutchman who worked as a hit man for the Nazis. He was sentenced to death by a Dutch court after the war, but has been holed up in Germany for years, beyond the reach of Dutch extradion. The message the world has sent to Nazi fugitives is that the wheels of justice will never stop turning. Years from now, Bush and Cheney and their collaborators may be hunted men who will spend the rest of their lives looking over their shoulders and moving among ‘safe houses’ run by sympathizers.
@49 Where did you read that? Is that some wingnut spouting off?
# 47 “What do you do if neither candidate wins a majority?”
I don’t think there is much chance of Obama not winning the majority of the elected delegates. The question is how much damage will be done by a brokered convention, and even more disastrous, having the SD’s throw the candidacy to Clinton when she does not win the majority of the elected delegates.
That is the danger we face by continuing the primary race. Clinton can do herself, the country and the Democratic Party a great favor, and withdraw. She can make a great Senate majority leader, and with a Democratic president, and super majority Senate and House, we can really make some great strides to getting the US back to what it once was.
I don’t care since either of them will easily beat 72 year old JohnBoy McCain – special interest coddler – skirt chaser and flip flopper extraordinaire.
@ 53, I don’t know about the “easily” part. It depends on how united we are, and how prepared we are to overcome the wingnut slime machine.
Oh, and the rampant wingnut cheating.
Lots of economic news in today’s paper — all of it bad. Let’s start with this:
“If history is a guide, the recession of 2008 is now unavoidable. The dismal jobs report released Friday showed overall employment to be lower than it was three months ago. Every time such a slump has occurred since the early 1970s, a recession has followed — or was already under way.
“And … the good times [under Bush] … were never that good to begin with. Most American households are still not earning as much … as they did in 1999, once inflation is taken into account. …
“Over the past year, the number of officially unemployed has risen by 500,000, while … [t]here are also 600,000 more people working part time because they could not find full-time work, according to the Labor Department. …
“Late in the day, a Treasury Department statement sought to talk up the economy. With oil hovering around $105 a barrel and the cost of wheat, corn and other commodities driving up food prices, the Treasury stressed that the core inflation rate remained contained at 2.5 percent. It was an odd choice for positive news … this measure of inflation ignores the record prices that Americans are paying at the gas pump and the grocery store. The latest … consumer price index, which measures what Americans pay at the cash register, was almost double the core rate ….”
Quoted under fair use; for complete story and/or copyright info see http://seattletimes.nwsource.c.....omy08.html
Roger Rabbit Commentary: Keep up the economic happy talk, wingnutz! Maybe you can convince America’s working families that they all got rich from Bush’s $300 tax rebates.
“NEW YORK — Faltering credit markets have tipped over into a new, more dangerous phase ….
“On Thursday, Alabama’s most populous county teetered on the verge of what could become the nation’s largest municipal bankruptcy. …
“Those on the front lines — from bond traders to investment managers — say the latest batch of bad news indicates a harrowing new time in the credit crisis that could send a shock wave through the economy. ‘We are in historic scarier-than-all hell territory,’ said T.J. Marta, an analyst who monitors the fixed-income markets for RBC Capital Markets. ‘I am hearing many people say that the market is more broken now than it ever has been.’
“Problems are popping up on multiple fronts ….
“The $2.6 trillion municipal-bond industry … faces a host of threats that could limit the way cities and school districts raise money.
“Alabama’s Jefferson County is considering a bankruptcy filing to resolve a financial crisis surrounding $3.2 billion of sewer debt. …
“Meanwhile, the insurance that cities bought to protect their bonds is losing its luster. … ‘The problem now with insurance products is their value is only as good as … the insurer,’ said Richard Tortora, president of Capital Markets Advisors ….
“It demonstrates that credit markets face a new round of tightening, hitting parts of the market deemed relatively safe only months ago. …
“Many of the largest investment banks are due to report results in two weeks, amid fears of big new write-downs.”
Quoted under fair use; for comlete story and/or copyright info see http://seattletimes.nwsource.c.....oes07.html
And, locally, Washington Mutual’s stock plunged and its bond rating was downgraded after the big mortgage lender reported more loan losses. http://seattletimes.nwsource.c.....efs08.html
Roger Rabbit Commentary: All of this is the fault of the laissez faire ideologues of the incompetent Bush administration. They were determined to take America’s economy back to the 1890s, and they succeeded. Now all Americans are living in the 1890s again — complete with hyperinflation, soaring unemployment, financial panics, recession, and collapsing markets. FDR saved capitalism from capitalists by instituting economic regulation. Now, free-market dogmatics are intent on eliminating the liberal reforms that saved capitalism — which makes me suspect they’ve been closet communists all along.
@52 “I don’t think there is much chance of Obama not winning the majority of the elected delegates.”
As a matter of fact, we’re already there. It’s now a mathematical near-impossibility for either candidate to win with elected delegates, which means unelected superdelegates will decide the nomination contest in a brokered convention.
Roger Rabbit said:
‘At some point in every activist’s career, we become “them.” ‘
When were you ever an activist anything, Roger? I though all you are is a failed attorney who had to get a state job to survive and now lives around Green Lake and bitches and complains all day.
@ 57, understood. The question is whether the SD’s will throw the nomination away from the will of the primary and caucus voters. If it comes down to that we will have a lot of formerly enthusiastic voters, and will have lost what would have been unstoppable momentum.
I don’t think the independent voters are going to be very happy to have had their vote thrown away.
Hey Roger: FUCK YOU!
29
Did anyone ever claim Obama or his campaign were perfect? I sure don’t remember doing so. He and his campaign, however, are not the ones holding up the other Democrat in the race as unfit to serve; he and his campaign are not the ones who want to seat the Michigan and Florida delegates as-is; I could go on but I won’t because I have other stuff I need to be doing. Suffice it to say that if Obama is crooked, to quote a rabbit friend of mine, I’ll take Obama’s crooks over Clinton’s crooks. I get a better ROI.
58 cont. But if Clinton recognizes the futility of hoping for the SD’s to throw her then candidacy, and gives her support to Obama, then Obama can go to the with enough delegates to win the nomination, and no momentum is lost.
Or we can just handicap our chance of winning the presidency and the super majority in congress.
And this is why I can’t listen to Randi Rhodes, either. I’m so sick of her rants about superdelegates. Everyone knew the party rules going in. If she doesn’t like them (only because they aren’t breaking for her candidate, I’m guessing) she can work to have them changed, just like anybody in the party. But she insists on joining the circular firing squad instead. Lost my repsect, even if I think she is funny and smart.
All of you Obama-bots who claim you won’t vote for Hillary if she’s the nominee, do you even realize how fucking childish you sound? Most Dems realize we have two decent candidates who have an opportunity to undo some of the real damage done over the past seven years. You want to throw that away simply because you didn’t get your choice? Fuck you. I didn’t get my choice either. But I’m supporting the eventual nominee, and I’m going to push for whoever that is to do the right thing when they are in office. That’s politics, folks. Obama is only 47, he has lots of time to run again if he isn’t the nominee. And if he is, I will support him and work to get him into office.
All of you folks who think Hillary’s ego is so huge – why do you think she’s floating the idea of a dual ticket right now? I know y’all think it’s because she’s losing and grasping, but why not consider that maybe she thinks it would be bad to split the party? Maybe she sees an opportunity to keep things positive, and maybe, just maybe, Barack’s ego is getting in the way just a little bit too? As I said above, you should give Clinton a shred as much of the benefit of the doubt that you are willing to extend to Obama.
erratum, 59 cont.
Democrat Wins Hastert’s Seat
A Democrat won today’s special election to fill ex-GOP Speaker Dennis Hastert’s House seat in Illinois.
@60 Yes oh yes yes yes yesssssss … !!! BRING ON THE CUTE FLUFFY FEMALE BUNNIES!!! Line ’em up and I’ll bang ’em all!!! Fuck Roger Rabbit!!! That’s every cute fluffy female bunny’s dream!!!
@59 I think the superdelegates should go with whoever has the most delegates after the public has voted.
63 Tlazolteotl
All of you Obama-bots who claim you won’t vote for Hillary if she’s the nominee, do you even realize how fucking childish you sound?
Um, who are these people? The Democrats I hear will vote for whoever the Democratic nominee is, even if they have some preference for one cadidate over another. I am hearing straw man.
OK, I’ve taken on Roger at least once, now it’s time to take on my fellow Obama supporters.
While Senator Clinton has said and done several things that bother me, and one or two that really pissed me off, the fact is that it has been a pretty clean and cordial campaign between the two of them. She’s said a number of things that I see as misleading, but nothing deliberately untrue.
And, if Senator Obama were not in this race, most of us would be supporting Senator Clinton.
The Clintons have always been hard campaigners, focused exclusively on the prize. In other circumstances, most of us would see this as a positive, as she is strong enough to take on the neo-con smear machine head-on.
Personally, I think that it’s the wrong way to campaign in a primary, as it stands the chance of damaging the other candidate in ways that will make the general election harder to win.
I also think that it will be the wrong way to campaign against Senator McCain, as he gives the impression that he’s a “straight shooter” and a fair campaigner. That impression may be wrong, but against a Clinton-style campaign, he’ll be given lots of excuses for any dirty tricks, as at least some of them will be being used against him.
But while I think that Senator Clinton tends to fight dirty, she’s certainly got reason to think that it’s the way to win against Republicans, and she has apparently tried to keep those tendencies (mostly) under control through the primaries.
We need to avoid the very thing we’re complaining about. She could still win the nomination, and if she does, we need to avoid damaging her to the point where Senator McCain wins the election.
Roger Rabbit says:
@2 You oughta know — you Repubs have adopted Stalinism lock, stock, and barrel and made it the new mantra of your party.
03/08/2008 at 12:37 pm
Yes. We do treat terrorist who are non US citizens pretty bad. You lefties can sit and spin if you don’t like it.
Oh, and Tlazolteotl?
Who around here is saying that we won’t vote for Senator Clinton?
I probably won’t go out and enthusiastically campaign for her. There are other campaigns where I will devote my energy. I don’t like Senator Clinton, and cannot fake enthusiasm for her. But I will vote for her over Senator McCain.
There are a number of people that have been brought into the process by the Obama campaign that otherwise would probably have sat out this election. Some of these folks may just stay home, others (often with some reluctance) will vote for Senator Clinton.
But among the political junkies around here, none of us are likely to refuse to vote for our party’s candidate.
You lefties can sit and spin if you don’t like it.
Ah, the pathetic warbles of a mindset about to become a permanent minority, and whose leaders will soon be behind bars.
Sweet music to the ears.
@57:Now, free-market dogmatics are intent on eliminating the liberal reforms that saved capitalism — which makes me suspect they’ve been closet communists all along.
No, they are still capitalists. Just not decent capitalists.
Tlaz re Randi Rhodes
Agreed. She’s getting tiresome on that issue. Except for damn few, supers will continue to abandon Hillary as they are currently doing. I’m sick of her Clinton attacks as well. And I’m no Clinton fan either.
Am I the first to ask, could Obama operatives in the South be taking out young, white, female, University-going, Hillary supporters?
Roger Rabbit @ 65
That victory in Illinois gives Obama one more superdelegate! :)
re 42: Jim, what is a “genuine” musician? Would you consider the whistler on the Andy of Mayberry show to be genuine?
Some day, probably a long way down the road, a whole bunch of Bush Crime Family members WILL be tried at The Hague. No thinking person can doubt that there are documents specifically linking them to internationally recognized war crimes.
I sure don’t. (typing in the background)
Tlazolteotl @ 63
I am not exceptionally thrilled with Clinton, and think she has a pretty good chance of losing to McCain. Regardless, I will vote for Clinton over McCain, because Clinton is a Democrat, her policies are better than McCain’s, McCain has done an about-face and is enthusiastically embracing Bush’s failed policies, and Clinton is at least as qualified to be President as McCain.
You aren’t seeing that many Democrats who are saying they will vote for McCain if Clinton is the nominee. Clinton does lose substantial support vis a vis Obama with other groups. Many Republicans will cross over to vote for Obama, and hardly any at all will cross over for Clinton. Obama convincing carries independents against McCain, while Clinton loses to McCain among independents.
I will warm up to Clinton if she is the nominee, and look at her positive qualities, instead of her negatives. But I am afraid folks in the middle will like McCain better than Clinton.
Goldy,
What in hell do you mean?
Age? Last I looked you and Barack were pretty close in age.
Blogospheric origins? What exactly is there about blogging that makes abloggers fit to govern more than Church memebers or Chatauqua types?
Issues … and what might those be? You have not mentioned one thing so far.
Or, could it be that you want to see a “movement” rather than just an election?
I have been disappointed that the Obama movement from the first meeting I attended. Unlike the civil rights movement or the peace movement, seems to be very top down. Where I would like to see an effort to reform the demo party, this seems to be solely an election campaign.
I have also been disappointed that Obama does not seem t be engendering local efforts .. e.g. support for Burner.
JOHN@71 THAT A-4 DRIVER IS GOING TO KICK HILLARYS ASS IF SHE WINS THE PRIMARY AND YOU CAN TAKE THAT TO THE GOAT LOCKER.
re 77: Sometimes even a blind pig finds a aaaaahhhhhh weird moldy thing in a French forest. Know what I mean??
An’, I thunk you jus’ foun’ it!!!
re 77: George Bush is a deserter. Show me the proof that he isn’t….
HOW COME OBAMA WAS BORN WITH THE GIVIN NAME OF BARRY SOTERA.WHEN HE BECAME A MUSLIM HE CHANGE TO A MUSLIM NAME LOOK IT UP FOR YOURSELF.
83
This is no place for children. Turn off your mother’s computer and take your nap.
@75 I’m not entirely sure that’s so, on a number of grounds, but supposing it is — you’re talking 1 delegate and a candidate needs over 2,000 delegates to win the nomination … if it’s that close there will be irresistable pressure for do-overs in Mich. and Fla.
Considering that Hillary won both those states, a 1-vote Obama win would not be accepted as legitimate by a lot of Hillary supporters. I’m not saying I wouldn’t accept it, but unless Obama wins by more than Hillary’s disqualified Fla. and Mich. delegates, there’s going to be a legitimacy problem.
@83 My initial reaction was, “Is this the latest crapola from the Wingnut Bullshit Machine?”
Nope. When I googled “Barry Sotera” nothing came up. If this had been on Rush, or in the rightwing blogs, I would have gotten lots of hits. Nothing. Nada. Zip.
I’m compelled to conclude you peeled this particular crapola off your own bathroom wall. Have fun wiping your smelly ass with it.
The already-low quality of the trolls on this board deteriorates further with every passing day. We can only hope and pray the Rapture wastes no more time getting here.
@88 Roger they are all starting to exhibit even more than usual signs of batshit craziness as it starts to become more clear that they’ll loooooooose everything in November.
I love the hue and cry by so many 16%ers here “Rove campaign tactics”.
Ladies and Gentlemen and I use that term very loosely with these 16%ers, remember the “vast right wing conspiracy”?
This was a “conspiracy” to out the Clinton’s and their scorched earth campaign against the abused women of slick willie. Never heard the NAGS (Nat’l Org of Gals) or you 16%ers cry fowl when willie and hillie were besmirching the Gennifer Flowers, Kathleen Willeys, or Paula Jones’ out there. You all supported willie and hillie even though there was no HorsesASS then.
Now you are seeing the fruits of your un-labor. Heilary is what she’s always been an original scorched earther. Good try but you can’t blame it on Karl Rove. Karl is just a convenient foil for the HorsesASSHoles here and now.
Slick Willie and Heilary learned their tactics long, long ago.
@Prick you wanna know one thing we won’t blame Rove for? We won’t blame him for contributing to the total and complete downfall of the GOP. It is a good thing. And I’ll tell you this now since I know we’ll never hear from you again after we win in Nov. . . the world is better off for it.
Busdrivermike@47: Great answer. You can call Goldy and his 16%ers HorsesASShole platoon on it. If any of us from the right wrote that we’d be attacked. Since you are a 16%er they’ll let you slide.
Pelletizer wrote: “When I googled “Barry Sotera” nothing came up.”
Try again Pelletizer. I found a funny article on it. Too bad your oxygen starved mind can’t think out of the HorsesASSholes 16%er box.
Barry wrote poetry. Barry introduced white kids to jazz. He read “The Fountainhead,” by Ayn Rand.
So why isn’t headless lucy (sempersimper) and his other 18 voices supporting Barry? He read Ayn Rand.
Once again it’s proven Pelletizer is a stupid old lawyer who lost his skillz.
Now Doggie, I don’t know if that was his birth name or a name he used in school but good find. Easily found if you know how to look.
BBG: How is your one man campaign to determine what information McCain supposedly gave up while being tortured?
You lost cred with that post ASSHOLE.
You and other 16%ers blaming Karl Rove for well known Heilary scorched earth tactics is a laffer!
re 93: “Ayn”? Sounds vaguely foreign — Russian, maybe. I don’t trust her.
So BBG you still support support will and hillie’s scorched earth campaign against those women willie abused?
87
I’m not sure that I’m 100% correct about this, but I think this is how the timeline goes:
– Ann Dunham marries Barack Obama. They have a son whom they name after his father, Barack Obama Jr.
– Mom and Dad split up. Dad goes back to Kenya
– Mom marries an Indonesian guy by the name of Lolo Soetero. The new family, little Barack included, moves to Indonesia. He starts going by the name of Barry and uses his stepfather’s surname
– This marriage fails too and Mom takes little Barry and goes back to live with family in Hawaii.
– At some point subsequently Barry goes back to being Barack and using the surname of Obama.
– Note that at no time does Obama/Soetero convert to Islam.
Here’s a bit more for your edification:
http://old.thejakartapost.com/.....porter.asp
So a troll heard something on the Net, and like a blotter he soaked it all in but got it all backwards. What else is new?
@98
Barak’s first father, the Kenyan, abandoned his family when Barak was two years old. He felt it was more important to further his studies at an east coast college than stay home and raise his son. Why Barak looks up to that coward and disgusting human being I’ll never understand.
Guy with no car: It was a AP newspaper article that oxygen starved Pelletizer couldn’t find. You didn’t find it either?
No wonder you don’t have a car.
We can only hope and pray the Rapture wastes no more time getting here.
Amen.
Let us pray. Dear Lord, regarding Stupes and Doofus.
Please beam those jackasses up!
You can always count on Clueless Idiot@101 to appear, deliver an empty entry, think he’s funny, and disappear again.
Thanks for proving many 16%ers are empty mindless saps.
Is anyone going t reposnd to Goldy’s comment?
102 – Shit Stupes, you ugly bankrupt trolls from the right wing are circling the toilet bowel.
You’ve had it coming for a long time.
Now look what you’re reduced to:
You support a candidate for Prez who is rated MORE LIBERAL than
Ted Kennedy
or
(i need air!)
HILLARY CLINTON.
If Obama get the endorsement of Rosie and Code Pink, what are you going to do?
Run to the comforting skirts of Papa McCain? Hell why not? Rove and Mehlman are already there!
You’re such a freaking loser!
100
Why should I own a car? I’m smart enough to know I can’t drive without being a hazard to myself and others. So I don’t drive, therefore I don’t have a car.
I didn’t even look for an AP article because I knew where to find the one from Indonesia. But maybe your Internet is the cheap, domestic variety.
He just doesn’t know what and “Indonesia” is.
an
This afternoon on Lou Dobbs I watched three simpering excuses for US general defend the three pink-lib candidates. Not much difference here! All of them wanted to blame Bush! They know damn well Bush was just doing as asked by his rich Jewish friends on wall street.
BTW, has anyone else noted that Obama is using the synagogue across from his Chicago home as a pissoir for his security guards! Wait till Hillary find out about his! Tsk tsk, Bit now that the Obamas are living there it will not be long before the synagogue closes and is replace by The Holy African Church the Ebony Jesus.
The only sane guy out there is Lou Dobbs! How do we get him t0 run?
“Barry Sotera” – John Gibson gave him raves last week. Tell Killer Rabbit to crawl out of his hole a little earlier (3 in the AM, same time as Hillary takes the calls from wandering Bill) and to tune in to KVI. Then he can turn on. He’s already dropped out.
What’s Johnboy McCain hiding?
http://www.vvof.org/mccain_hides.htm
The Big gipper: What you lack in brain cells, you make up for in bombast. Lou Dobbs for President – PLEASE – he is a pathetic excuse for a journalist.
And keep your pathetic diatribes, in what is left of your mind, inside those cavernous empty halls. We really don’t need to hear the anti-semetic trivia about Bush, Obama or whatever is popping into your weakened brain at the moment. It has no basis in any reality – just in your own vivid, right wing, phobic paranoia.
Can’t y’all just feel the love?
someone actually quoted from malkin’s site. HAHAHAHA