Underestimate us at your peril…
Here’s what too many people still don’t understand — there’s nothing loony about the netroots. This isn’t fertile territory for the McKinneys and Kuciniches of our party. This is fertile territory for the Howard Deans of our party — sensible, pragmatic progressives who aren’t afraid to be Democrats. Why? Because we’re the nation. We’re not clustered in DC and NYC, we’re spread out over all 50 states, and we know better than anyone what it takes to win in our own backyards.
We didn’t rally around Webb, Tester, Schweitzer, Trauner, Brown, Massa, Burner and so many other moderate Democrats because they were little Kucinich clones, but because they were perfectly suited for the states and districts they seek to represent. It’s that simple. Howard Dean wasn’t an anomaly. He was our ideal.
Of course, there are fringe elements to every movement, but there is nothing loony about the netroots, which is merely a revitalized, grassroots progressive movement, distinguished by its highly effective use of new technologies to achieve greater efficiencies in organizing, messaging and fundraising. And while our style and tactics may sometimes come across as unconventional, our political agenda is not.
No, what our critics miss is that the netroots are above all an exercise in political pragmatism, as embodied in our unofficial rally cry: “More and better Democrats.” Our emphasis on more Democrats is a simple recognition of reality: a two party system in which the electoral success of the Democratic Party currently provides the clearest path toward a more progressive political agenda. And our emphasis on better Democrats is a recognition that in terms of ideology, competence and ethics, our party is far from perfect.
But our motto also represents a pragmatic compromise… an effort to strike a balance between the need to improve the Democratic majority, and the need to expand it. And that compromise is reflected in the candidates we embrace, on a district by district basis.
How well we’ve managed to strike this balance, we’ll learn in another week.
Check out this site for a cute little cartoon on who the real “Americans” are. It does a nice job of lambasting the typical right wing talking points (you know, the real americans, blame democrats and minorities for the banking crisis and the “elites” – whatever that is).
Link: http://www.salon.com/comics/tomo/2008/10/28/tomo/
An elite is anyone who has a brain and uses it to the republican wingnuts.
Godly, one effective arrow that the netroots could add to their quiver is a better discussion of policy proposals and ideas. Often times, debunking right-wing bullshit is left to us here in the comment trenches, and there really isn’t time or space to deal with all of the issues in a comment.
Yeah, snark can be a bit fun, but sometimes a more direct rhetorical equivalent of a two-by-four is a better response.
@1 An elite is anyone who has a brain and uses it to the republican wingnuts.
That’s right. It has nothing to do with condescension, mockery, self-righteousness or derision, whatsoever… Not that such is completely one-sided, by any means. But as Libertarian, you all appear a lot more similar to the Republicans than either of you would ever acknowledge.
Crack Down On Welfare Bums!
That’s what I said — the country has suffered far too long from leeches sucking the vitality out of our economy, and with the old economic order replaced by government aid programs, it’s time to hand these loafers a shovel and put ’em to work filling potholes!
Roger Rabbit Quiz
Who is most likely to grab all the front places in line at the soup kitchen after the economy collapses?
[ ] 1. Hard-working Democrats who get up every morning and fight through traffic to work in the nation’s factories and offices.
[ ] 2. Spoon-fed Republicans whose only skill is cashing trust fund checks.
@4
Your not compassionate we work yet can’t get ahead now you want to take money away from us.
Your not an Obama supporter.
Democrats may be far from perfect, but they’re far more perfect than Republiconvicts.
@1 Republicans like to rob the poor and then blame the poor for not having any money.
@3 Why do you have a problem with us treating Republicans like they treat us? Do you think we’re gonna roll over for those goatfuckers and let them kick us? We tried that, and it doesn’t work.
So you’re a “Libertarian” now, I-Burn? Don’t want to be known as a “Republican” anymore? Can’t say I blame you, given the current status of the GOP brand! You weren’t the first rat to jump off their sinking ship and you won’t be the last.
@6 You’re new here, aren’t you? Stick around for a while, and watch and learn.
@9
I’ve never claimed to be anything but a Libertarian, Roger. I don’t like their brand of statist, any better than I like yours.
Progressive seems to mean progressing toward Socialism as 6-time American Socialist Party Candidate, Norman Thomas, so succintly spewed:
Now O-blah-blah wants to raise the Minimum Wage by $3/hour by 2011. Then it will rise by inflation. Does this guy have any idea how this will impact small business and job opportunities for young people?? Will increase prices & cut jobs.
O-blah-blah is emboldened in his Marxist/Socialist rhetoric.
DOW is up 585 points.
This is a suckers rally that savvy, wise investors like myself have just SOLD into and the stupid KLOWNS buy at the top of.
I-Burn @ 3
That’s right. It has nothing to do with condescension, mockery, self-righteousness or derision, whatsoever…
I should point out that you, I-Burn, have been subject to derision, condescension and mockery for the very simple reason that you have yet to bring something intelligent to the table. Come up with a cogent argument, and you’ll find yourself subject to far less condescension, derision and mockery.
re 11: A libertarian is a pot-smoking Republican crook who wants a government just big enough to enforce his crooked contracts.
Small-pox blankets and poison chinese toys = Libertarian business history
@13
And I should point out to you JD that your opinion of my intelligence bothers me, I suspect, about as much as my opinion of yours, bothers you. That is, not at all.
@14
No, a Libertarian is an adult that doesn’t depend on whining his way through life in the expectation that someone else will solve all of his problems.
@11 But, but, isn’t a libertarian an anarchist without balls?? ;)
@17
But, but, isn’t a libertarian an anarchist without balls??
Or maybe an anarchist who is married? Which, come to think of it, might be the same thing… :-)
Whirlpool to cut 5,000 jobs by end of 2009
By JAMES PRICHARD, AP Business Writer James Prichard, Ap Business Writer
Whirlpool Corporation, the US manufacturer of home appliances, said Tuesday it would cut 5,000 jobs worldwide …
All the O-blah-blah voters expect & will DEMAND a MUCH better life under President O-blah-blah. Obama will spend his 1st year in office LOWERING expectations of his cultmembers.
And I’m sure you KLOWNS noticed how the Machinists caved in to reality……..
They were asking for increases of 10%, 10% & 10% over 3 years.
They took Boeing’s original offer of 3%, 4% & 4%.
Then they tried to sugar coat other things that they “got”…which was basically status quo.
I think the Machinists Union believed Boeing would leave….and they were 100% correct.
They were given a short-term deadline to accept this offer…or else.
They accepted.
Actually the Union should be commended for properly reading the “tea-leaves”!
“Obama Caused The Market To Crash!”
Man, the kleptocrats are getting shriller every day as they see Armageddon coming to a ballot box near them! There’s more screeching in the business press than on Monkey Island at Woodland Park Zoo. For example, here’s a cute item (“cute” in the same sense as monkeys eating each others’ fleas) from Investors Business Daily:
“Investors Flee From ‘Change’ Obama Hypes
“By JACK KEMP AND PETER FERRARA
“Are Barack Obama’s proposed tax increases adversely affecting our financial markets? We say yes, unambiguously.
“The senator has done a masterful job distracting attention from his tax increases with his $500-per-worker tax credit supposedly for 95% of Americans [and] more than half a dozen additional refundable income tax credits targeted to low- and moderate-income workers for child care, education, housing, welfare, retirement, health care and other social purposes.
“These tax credits … phase-out based on income, which will … increase marginal income tax rates for middle-class workers. In other words, as you earn more, you suffer a penalty …. That harms, rather than improves, the economy.
“With the bottom 40% of income earners not paying any federal income taxes, such tax credits would not reduce any tax liability for these workers. Instead … they’re … new government spending programs ….
“Obama argues that while these workers do not pay income taxes, they do pay payroll taxes. True, but his planned credits do not involve cuts in payroll taxes. They are refundable income tax credits designed to redistribute income and ‘spread the wealth.’
“Meantime, Obama has proposed … increases … in the two top income-tax rates …. He wants a 33% increase in the tax rates on capital gains and dividends, an increase of 16% to 32% in the top payroll tax rate, reinstatement of the death tax with a 45% top rate, and a new payroll tax on employers estimated at 7% to help finance his health insurance plan. … Finally, he would increase corporate taxes by 25%, though American businesses already face the second-highest marginal tax rates in the industrialized world ….
“Obama argues disingenuously that his tax increases would only affect higher-income workers and ‘corporate fat cats.’ But it is precisely these top marginal tax rates that control incentives for savings, investment, entrepreneurship, business expansion, jobs and economic growth. While he wants to tax the rich, the burden will fall on the poor and the middle class.”
(Quoted under fair use without their permission; if they don’t like it, they can fucking sue me — but they’ll have to find me first!)
To hear these guys tell it, Obama’s tax proposals caused the markets to collapse, even though he isn’t elected it. That should give you a clue about what’s in the rest of the editorial.
Yep, you read it right, giving tax breaks to the middle class raises taxes on the middle class! With mass whizzes like these running America’s businesses, no wonder the economy is collapsing.
Okay, so here’s the real deal, according to them: If you pay 7.65% of your income to Uncle Sam as FICA taxes, but you’re too poor to pay withholding, anything you get back from the government is WELFARE. That’s right, FICA taxes aren’t taxes. That must mean giving tax credits to people paying FICA taxes is redistribution, you know, that socialism thing.
Next, they bitch about a 33% increase in capital gains taxes. Never mind that a middle class wage earner in the 25% tax bracket (+ 7.65% FICA taxes) already pays more than twice as much of his income in taxes as a rich investor in the 15% CG tax bracket whose FICA taxes are nothing. Yep, increasing the top CG rate from 15% to 20% while Joe Sixpack gets his 32.65% tax rate knocked down 5% or so is really gonna put those rich guys in the poorhouse!
The reason they’re talking about “reinstating” the so-called “death tax” is because the Bush tax cuts eliminate all estate taxes for 2010. That’s right, people whose rich uncles croak in the year after next will pay absolutely nothing no matter how many millions they inherit.
Predictably, they also bitch about raising corporate tax rates, even though 2/3rds of U.S. corporations pay no taxes and raising $0 by 25% is still $0.
Finally, they can’t resist trotting out the tired old Republican bromide that taxing the rich destroys “incentives for savings, investment, entrepreneurship, business expansion, jobs and economic growth” with the result that “the burden [of taxing the rich] will fall on the poor and the middle class.”
Well, okay, since we already have the burden of paying the taxes that the rich get out of paying, I don’t think things could get worse for us by making the rich pay the taxes we’re currently paying on their behalf. But that’s not the only thing wrong with this argument. As I’ve said before, business owners and investors don’t create jobs. Customers create jobs. And most of the customers are workers and wage earners. The reason everyone is worried we may be on the brink of another Great Depression is because real wages have been declining for years and consumers have run out of money to spend. When this happens, absolutely everyone — including the rich — ends up broke, because no sales means no profits and no return on investments.
But wait, there’s more! The authors of this screed tout Arthur Laffer’s new book, which alleges that capital is fleeing America under “the threat of this tax tsunami,” which is “already destabilizing our financial markets.” That’s right, if the capital-owning class has to pay a small fraction instead of a tiny fraction of the taxes the working class pays, America will be emptied of money and the financial system will come unglued. As if the financial system still exist. But there might be something to the first part of this argument because, having lifted all the working class’s money, the only money left in this country is what the capitalists took from the working class and gave to themselves.
They write, “Hot capital is escaping over the borders out of the United States and flowing into China, India, Europe, and even Japan. . . Starting in late 2007, foreigners started pulling their money out of the United States, and Americans started investing more abroad. Global investors are losing confidence in the U.S.”
Next, they proceed to lecture us about how Reagan saved the American economy, which was “in shambles” when Reagan took over. That’s actually kind of true. “The result,” they say, “was actually a 25-year, noninflationary economic boom … a 25-year boom — the greatest period of wealth creation in the history of the planet. Adjusting for inflation, more wealth was created in America in the 25-year boom than in the previous 200 years.” That’s true, too, but what they don’t mention is that 2% of the people got all of that new wealth, and it did the other 98% — those they think shouldn’t get a tax cut — absolutely no good whatsoever.
I don’t know what to say about this kind of pigheaded selfishness. Probably nothing. Don’t need to. The 98%, or at least a good percentage of them, have figured out what the Kleptocracy Klass did to them after Reagan and his Reopublican gangs took over. That’s why they see a Democratic tsunami coming straight at them.
I-Burn @ 15
And I should point out to you JD that your opinion of my intelligence bothers me, I suspect, about as much as my opinion of yours, bothers you.
I wasn’t talking about your intelligence, which, as a matter of fact, I’ve recognized as being of sufficient level as to lead me to believe that you are capable of bringing a cogent argument to the table. Were that not the case, I wouldn’t deride you so much.
I don’t deride you, because you’re stupid. I deride you, because you don’t think.
Errata @21
“even though he isn’t elected yet”
“math whizzes”
@11 I see. You like the every-man-for-himself-on-a-desert-island type of society. Then why don’t you go live on one, if living in civilization and being part of a community doesn’t suit you.
I do find it interesting that this blog has long comments, that run in the paragraph range, while places like hannity and freerepublic, barely have sentences. Conservatives seem content with short bumper sticker statements like “Obama is a socialist” and leave it at that.
( Mr Cynical is the odd man out here, he posts lots of long posts. Maybe he was a democrat once? )
@16 Libertarians don’t whine? Really? Show me a tax — any tax — and I’ll show you a Libertarian whiner.
Crazy leftist Democrats. All we want is universal health care, to protect social security, to keep our government from unconstitutionally spying on us, and to promote a sane foreign policy that doesn’t unnecessarily cost us blood and treasure.
Crazy shit, except that it happens to be supported by a majority of the American people. This election, and 2006, are not about a victory for the “left.” It’s about Democrats recapturing the center.
And with the Republicans looking like their response to it all is to go far-right crazy themselves, we may have it for quite a while.
12 cyn
As I understand it, the record does not bear you out on the effects of a rise in minimum wage.
But that’s the Republican way, right? Rising wages for workers is BAD. Tax cuts for workers is BAD. Tax cuts for the rich and endless war has no public cost and is GOOD.
And here is the 40 posts from a conservative web site entry about:
Daley Predicts 1 Million At Obama Election Party
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and if they lose??????????
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If he looses, it will be the million man riot.
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By George, I think you nailed it!
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Think Jim Jones Part Duex
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Presumably to start demanding their free cheese.
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Man, I hope there are lots of police on hand in case the one loses.
Can you imagine Michele Obama’s rant if we deny The One?
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Either way I may be able to see the smoke from Chicago burning down from here in West Michigan.
Post election prep is same for either result. I’m buying several boxes this weekend.
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He better have all his cops plus a lot of National Guard there.
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Bingo! The million man wake!
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That was not a very smart thing to say
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We would be so lucky…more like the Paris mob in 1789….yikes! Here’s hoping the good people left in Chi-town are boarding up and well insured.
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Not so fast, Barack . . not so fast.
Here is an interesting video by Dr. James David Manning . . it is long, but worth watching. Some of it is hard to listen to, but listen anyway and then send it along to your email buddies.
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Win or lose, doesn’t matter
Remember when the Pistons WON a few years ago and Detroit was on fire (literally) for a day or two.
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….any word yet on the over/under for the number of shootings at the gathering?….I’m sure that all the black and hispanic urban street gangs (militias) will be in attendance….if I were Daley I’d pray for cold and rain.
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I believe they will riot, win or loose.
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“…Everybody’s talking about the Obama Celebration…”
“Everybody” sure is going to be disappointed.
I suggest the Mayor have some pretty forceful contingency plans in place.
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That IS a scary thought.
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“…said the city has no plans to screen people entering the park.”
Yeah, that security move should work just fine-and-dandy, shouldn’t it?
If they *lose*? The RIOTS will be because of Whitey’s racism etc, and they will richly-deserve it!
Shades of the ‘68 Democrat Convention, won’t they be? Back then, I lived in Arlington Heights, and Dad & I had the .308cal and .50cal out, re-cleaned and “ready to rock & roll”, BTW. Fortunately for them, they never got out to our neighborhood!
A lot’s changed since ‘68, and I hope those folks are ready for what’s coming!
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Elitist party!!!! They make me sick!
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One million uber-parasite Stasi. Lovely.
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What does a one-million person riot look like?
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These type of announcements are only going to anger all the voters who haven’t voted yet. What Daley is saying is, ‘your vote don’t count, the fix is in.’
Rather cheeky attitude from someone who is counting his chickens before they’re hatched.
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Daley’s chickens . . . are coming home . . . to . . .roost.
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Who wants to spend the night in a park in Chicago in November? And what about bathrooms? Can you imagine being out at this shindig with a couple of kids who have to GO? My worst nightmare!
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What an opportunity!!!
When the Obamanations hear Obama has lost — Chicago will suffer the result of tolerating and race baiting their welfare dependent ghetto leaches, as will other cities with significant Obamaniacs in residence.
Diversity is our Strength.
Multiculturalism is the spice of society..
All cultures are equal…
All men are equal….
Bull shit.
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I wonder if the Patriots were planning a celebration after their Super Bowl win-oops!
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I’m not sure they can give the cops enough hazard pay to make it worth their while to wade into that mess. Hope they’ve got APCs! They’re going to need them.
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You couldn’t give me enough money to go that fiasco win or lose.
I bet there are riots either way. I am worried about sending my daughter to school the day after.
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Hey..there may not be enough Flat Screen TVs to go around. So i would expect they’ll ship some in from other States to meet the demand during the riots.Wouldn’t want any rioters to go home empty handed would we ?
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LOL. Now THAT is hubris! (pride goes before a fall)
Obama-Lenin
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I can hear the wicked witch now….”Fly monkeys, fly!!!…
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Whether he wins or loses, there’s going to be problems.
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Hey,why wait? go ahead and start the party tonight if the election is over!
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Pie. They want pie!
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Exactly! Win or lose there will be riots. Nothing like an excuse to loot!
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I think they made a movie about the scenario
@25 They read like they type: One letter at a time.
Almost nothing but blurts.
and they are really unpleasant.
Huge Stock Rally
The Dow closed up 889 points on the Dow today. There must be new polls showing Obama expanding his lead.
@12 “Now [Obama] wants to raise the Minimum Wage … Does this guy have any idea how this will impact small business and job opportunities for young people??”
Yes, President-To-Be Obama is aware that all research on the subject shows that raising the minimum wage to keep up with inflation doesn’t result in job losses or increased inflation. (How could it? Minimum wage workers don’t make a measurable percentage of total income.)
Yeah, raising the wages of low-wage workers, who must spend all of their money on consumption—hmmm, that wouldn’t have the effect of stimulating the economy, would it? Why, yes it would!
29
I liked this exchange:
“Yeah, ya think? Better not let The Plan be uncovered.”
Smehow, I don’t think we’ve arrested enough Republican white supremacists yet.
The racist anger of some the conservatives is amazing.
How about this gem
Of course, this is good too.
Yeah, who did those Founders think they were anyway, tampering with the natural order of white rule!
what a crock of reaganomis apologia from the cynidumbshit.
unions are good. midddle class is good. AMERICANS with discretionary income is good. LIVING WAGE jobs are good.
outsourcing manufacturing jobs is BAD (see above). corporate greed is bad. corporate TAX EVASION (by locating sham offices in offshore havens) is IMMORAL.
this is what progressives believe.
Re: the minimum wage–
It seems that you KLOWNS seem to feel there are never any undesirable consequences to actions like this!
Obama is for Nanny-State Government.
Tax, Tax, Tax and redistribute.
How do you KLOWNS think a major increase in minimum wage will impact restaurants?
ANSWER: Prices will go up and service will go down.
Already some fast-food restaurants have gone to drive-up window only during off hours.
Eventually it will be all drive up window.
Saves money on cleaning and other staffing.
It will also be interesting to see how many minimum wage jobs are out there now.
Many employers already pay more FOR EXPERIENCED HELP.
Minimum Wage has become a training wage.
Raise it…see what happens.
@33 – Minimum wage is an idiotic concept. If you were allowed to pay people what they were worth, people would be more inclined to increase their skills so they can be worth more. All minimum wage does is give people a job that pays them more than they are worth, therefore discouraging them from gaining new skills because a new job probably pays the exact same wage. Employers then are not able to pay for better skills at more competitive positions because they are stuck overpaying for the unskilled.
Rujax–
Boeing Machinists just agreed to allowing outsourcing of many parts.
I thought it was bad??
I’m not against the middle class.
My dad was a Blue-Collar Union guy who worked his ass off so we could live from paycheck-to-paycheck.
One of the big differences we are talking about here is THE ROLE OF GOVERNMENT in our lives & pocketbooks.
You KLOWNS say you want less government out of one side of your mouth and then crave more government to “spread the wealth”.
You seem confused.
re 16:
“No, a Libertarian is an adult that doesn’t depend on whining his way through life in the expectation that someone else will solve all of his problems.”
No, I-Burn: That is too broad a brush-stroke. Just because I’m willing to help someone else who really needs it doesn’t mean I’m begging for help myself. Nobody here is whining about anything.
Let me make one thing clear to you: You are NOT a heroic figure in an Ayn Rand novel.You’re just some joker on a blog who calls himself a jock rash.
policy and nuance and balanced reasonable approaches to complex economic and sociological problems are tough for rigid randian retards like the cynidumbshit…who has no more connection to working class “roots” than his idol bill o’liely has.
ps…there are other reasons for fast food restauants not having lobby service 24 hours. i’m sure you don’t give a fuck about any of them.
incorrectandnottobright: Salon?
HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR
i ran across a reasoned and thoughtful reply i made to thee pudddybitch a couple years ago.
why did i bother.
RudeASS!: Middle Class? Middle Class?
Joe Three Letter Word “JOBS” Biden calls himself middle class.
So does Al Gorebasm.
So did John Deadwards.
Yet they live in more expensive and fancier houses than Puddy making over $200K a year.
RudeASS: Reasoned and thoughtful? You?
HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR
@45 “why did i bother”
He deserves nothing but our contempt and scorn.
Oh yeah, that working so well in Mexico. It’s a worker’s paradise.
These right wing jokers will never relinquish their grip on the unworkable philosophy they share.
Clue: Man is not an economically rational creature. What is really in the best interest of a capitalist is having plenty of workers who can afford their product.
Henry Ford gave them a clue, and they still don’t get it. Lording it over the rest of us is more important to these ‘Masters of the Universe’ than a long-lived and profitable enterprise.
@40 Really? Businesses hire workers that cost more than they earn for the business? Is someone forcing them to do this? Who would that be? Didn’t McCain say Obama’s tax increases on people making over $250K will hurt small businesses? How can these small businesses be so successful if being forced to pay minimum wage is costing them money?
@46 You? Making “over $200K a year”? (snicker)
HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR
Btw, puddinghead, either stop using my copyrighted literary workproduct or send me a royalty check. Thieving Republican asshole.