Governor Gregoire seems intent on painting herself into a rhetorical corner with her adamant refusal to seriously consider any option for replacing the Alaska Way Viaduct that doesn’t include a massive, double-decker freeway running through Seattle’s waterfront. Which is really a shame, because the surface-plus-transit alternative is shaping up to be a political compromise in which nearly everybody could claim victory… even the Governor.
Make no mistake, the surface option is gaining ground. The Governor may have successfully torpedoed the political viability of Mayor Nickel’s tunnel, but that has only resulted in rebuild opponents coalescing around a single alternative. A sure sign of this shifting momentum was the raft of public statements made by legislators earlier this week warning that a surface solution could cost Seattle taxpayers a pretty penny.
A rebuild, we are told, would be entirely financed by the state, but the surface option might draw only a fraction of the state funds already committed to the project. This was intended to scare Seattle voters into choosing the devil we know, but it was unintentionally revealing. First, it shows that even Olympia’s rebuild proponents now take seriously the surface option’s political viability. Second, it put forth a lower range — a billion dollars — from which the city can now negotiate the state contribution. Somewhere between $1 billion and $2.8 billion dollars… that’s how much we can expect from the state for a surface-plus-transit solution.
And I’m guessing the final figure would be closer to the middle-to-high end of the range. Rebuild, tunnel or surface, the state still has to tear down the existing structure, modify ramps to and from the Battery St. tunnel, and rebuild both the seawall and the elevated structure from the 1st Ave. ramps to the West Seattle Freeway. We constantly focus on the 2-mile stretch across Seattle’s downtown waterfront, but that’s only part of the project, and thus part of the costs. There is a political argument to be made that state taxpayers should not be expected to pay the bill for all of the local surface and transit improvements such an option would entail, but I’d be surprised if the state could get away with less than a $2 billion contribution.
But by ignoring the growing momentum towards a surface solution the Governor risks blowing political capital on a fight that at best, might earn her a Pyrrhic victory, for as much as she now pooh-poohs the public vote she once called for, voters in this state take their plebiscites seriously. A close vote might be easily dismissed as inconclusive, but should voters overwhelmingly reject a rebuild, the Governor’s tough stance puts her in the position of either appearing to cave to Seattle bullies — exactly the perception she’s apparently trying to avoid — or alienating her political base.
Not exactly where she wants to be heading into a contested election.
So how does the Governor turn this into a win-win situation? The Governor has repeatedly drawn a line in the sand, demanding that any Viaduct replacement must maintain capacity. The key to accepting the surface option as both a transportation and political compromise rests on how we define the word “capacity.”
In recent months, WSDOT has insisted on defining capacity in terms of moving vehicles, but that’s not always been the focus of transportation planners. Indeed, the Environmental Impact Statement sets forth a broader vision of the project’s purpose:
Purpose of the Proposed Action
The purpose of the proposed action is to provide a transportation facility and seawall with improved earthquake resistance that maintains or improves mobility and accessibility for people and goods along the existing Alaskan Way Viaduct Corridor.
Hard-nosed rebuild supporters have mocked King County Executive Ron Sims as some kind of enviro-whacko hippie for stating that we should be focused on moving people, not cars — but that’s exactly the stated purpose put forth in the EIS. And that’s exactly the language the Governor needs to join former tunnel supporters in support of a surface compromise.
It’s not a matter of redefining the word capacity — “mobility” was always the definition from the start, and accepting an alternative that improves mobility, while perhaps decreasing vehicle capacity, is perfectly consistent with Gov. Gregoire’s line in the sand. That is, as long as she doesn’t paint herself into a rhetorical corner by insisting otherwise.
Before the AWV comes down, the alternative people moving facilities have to be in place. My continuing resistance to all the current proposals is the cold-turkey implied by dismantling the current structure.
A trip I need to make starts in West Seattle and ends in Seattle Center at McCaw Hall, a lousy trip by bus at any time. Worse, maybe impossible, when returning home after “Parsifal”.
How about a night of music at the Tractor in Ballard?
You know about getting around Seattle on transit, Goldy. When is it going to get better? When it does, the surface option makes some sense. Destroy it and they will provide doesn’t work for me.
“voters in this state take their plebiscites seriously”
Of course we do; and then the pols do what they wanted to do in the first place, anyway. Safeco Field stands as a monument to how things work around here. And anyone who thinks a $500 million basketball palace won’t be build, and Seattle taxpayers won’t pay for it, just because 75% of Seattle voters nixed it just doesn’t understand how things work around here.
Goldy,
Why do you have such a difficult time saying “Repair & Prepare?”
Perhaps Goldy has bit on the canard that the viaduct can’t be fixed well enough to get responsible alternatives in place. Much easier to dream while other people stand in the rain waiting for a bus.
David @4,
I don’t. “Repair & Prepare.” I’ve said it before, I support some sort of short term retrofit that gives us time to make a proper decision, as opposed to rushing into a rebuild because that’s our “only option.”
I’d also like to point out once again that surface proponents aren’t talking about tearing it down first, and then making improvements. Many of the surface and transit improvements can and should be made prior to tearing down the Viaduct.
@6
Then surface proponents should stop talking about the beautiful parks and art museums that can be built in the viaducts place, and start talking about the mobility issue you are bringing up here.
West Seattlites hear 2 hours on the bridge when “surface” is uttered.
Goldy,
Proponents of S/T would get more political traction if they did not come across as desiring to tear down the Viaduct cold-turkey, which is exactly how they do come across.
I find it amazing that even though there is a freeway between West Seattle, Magnolia and Seattle Center, and the monorail was determined to service West Seattle and Ballard first because of those neighborhoods transit ridership, politicians don’t respond to the mass transit needs of this identified transit corridor.
This is as simple to approach as allowing people to walk wherever they wish on a new campus, then building paved pathways on the most used routes.
Harry,
I find that it’s usually impossible to get ANYWHERE after Parsifal.
Oh, I don’t know. Most folks give up at the second intermission :^).
Seems as though Gregoire is becoming the sacrifical lamb for the surface option position for the short term. What will be the long term consequences of this?
Some made the comment awhile back that it would have been better if Nisqually had pancaked the Viaduct.
I guess that’s true if the paradyme is to replace it, which is obviously the state position.
Six years has brought the impact of a replacement into focus. Like, the IOCC consensus on global warming makes the imperative to cut single-car vehicle usage drastically.
Chris is slow to realize this, but it may not harm her if she get it. Soon
Seems as though Gregoire is becoming the sacrifical lamb for the surface option position for the short term. What will be the long term consequences of this
Well, in a couple years out, meet Governor Rob McKenna or Dino Rossi. (I’m still of the opinion that Rossi won’t try again, but McKenna will inherit a lot of his mojo- and as Slade Gorton and our current governor have demonstrated, the AG’s office is a springboard to other statewide offices.)
Part of Gregoire’s problem is she seriously underperformed her+Sims in the primary. I’m having a hard time buying how pissing off Seattle by how the Viaduct’s going down is helping this.
Like, the IOCC consensus on global warming makes the imperative to cut single-car vehicle usage drastically.
Sure, we’ll just completely re-engineer a disperse metropolitan area where 3-4 million people live and work, and turn it into Hong Kong. No problem. I’m sure this won’t have any unintentional side effects or cause any economic dislocation.
While you’re at it, I’d like a pony.
We already have s surface option in this city.
It’s called Aurora Ave and It has proven to be a huge barrier serparating a one connected community.
And on cue, Roger appears. I mean Goldy.
For those who question the need for the viaduct.
Here is a portion of an article that ran March 1, 2001 in the Seattle Times.
“From the March 1 Seattle Times
“Closing the heavily traveled Viaduct made the Thursday morning commute from West Seattle to downtown a 1 ½ to 2 hour nightmare. Before the reopening was announced, one veteran traffic reporter was recommending that afternoon commuters “leave incredibly early, allow a ton of extra time, treat each other with kindness and keep their radios turned on.”
The surface and transit option should be considered dead.
I don’t think traffic on AWV has lessened since 2001. If anything it has increased. Where will all the cars go?
Now, Tunnel Light? please… Digging a big hole and only putting in a roadway that carries the same capacity as the current AWV seems crazy. For the tunnel, it should be all or NADA.
On a side note.
It is clear now that Goldy is Roger is Goldy. Amazingly, as soon as Goldy was off traveling to FL. Roger dissapeared. No posts. Then suddenly, as soon as Goldy posts? bammo there is Roger. I have been suspicious…now I am convinced.
Going back over days and weeks, I can’t hardly find an hour, let alone days that Roger hasn’t posted. Just when Goldy was traveling and not posting……
Hey Goldy Rabbit, enjoying the free vacation paid for by your “pledge” drive? Hard time paying the bills etc….
Roger @ 3:
You’re starting to sound like a Libertarian!
Government does what it wants to do regardless of what the voters want.
Debate and more debate about the viaduct is a good thing. Getting the taxpayers in Seattle informed about the limitations in regard to what scope of work state gas tax funds can ethically pay for is highly important. Understanding the cause and effect of whatever choice is made in terms of city resident taxes and internal city mobility is also highly important.
Good government driven policies that cause WSDOT to design major un-expandable projects like tunnels and bridges so they will meet all needs throughout their design life or at least until 2030 are policies I think we can all support in general. Some, I gather, do not recognize this as a standing policy aimed at wisely investing limited state funding (or required for federal funding) and view design aimed at meeting this policy as treachery. It is not treachery.
Goldy suggests that the Gov has painted herself into a corner. I would agree that our Gov is in somewhat of a corner but the active painters have been those at the city and in the legislature. The Gov’s role has been more analogous to placing and then revising the value of this ever changing painting.
Some have said our Gov is playing politics. This of course is laughable since the issue is a political looser regardless of what choice is made in the end. If anything she should get points for remaining flexible and engaged even when the “painting” keeps getting last minute changes.
So my hope is that here and in the commercial media and as campaigns for and against all the options progress that the facts overcome the name calling so that the real effects of any choice that might be made can be understood by the voters/taxpayers of Seattle.
I’m cross-posting most of this from my Slog post – different people are making some of the same pro-rebuild arguments here:
IMHO, to do the surface part of surface-transit right and not half-assed, you have to tear down the Viaduct. It’s in the way. (Consider the half-assed Kingdome, which we ended up replacing after only 25 years with two far more expensive stadia.)
But, the timelines for any of the scenarios have the Viaduct demolition beginning in 2009. That’s time to a) implement “Transit Now,” that we passed last fall; b) to begin implementing ST2; c) for Central Link to be completed and begin operating, scheduled for 2009; d) for Ron Sims’ “49 ways” list of small street and transit improvements to be implemented; and e) for any other additional transit or transportation demand management programs to be designed and put in place.
In fact, what I just listed is pretty much what’s already being planned by WSDOT. What we’re debating is what’s going to happen after demolition – a new Great Wall, a Big Dig, or a boulevard.
Consider San Francisco: Octavia Boulevard is perhaps a better apples-to-apples comparison than the Embarcadero from a traffic flow perspective. From reports and pictures (and I think I have driven on it once), Octavia, w/ only four through lanes (it has one service lane on each side as well) flows 40-50,000 cars/day at 30 mph _and_ has a park in the middle. People love it.
To anyone bitching about 30 mph, consider that that would add all of one minute to your trip through the central waterfront (assuming synchonized stoplights, and that you’d do 60 mph now)… vs. hundreds to thousands of additional tax dollars from you to pay for a rebuild.
With improvements elsewhere in the street grid, creating better access to _and_ through downtown (also already being planned as construction mitigation), deciding now to rebuild the Viaduct to open sometime around 2012 is not the right decision.
Incidentally, the 2001 viaduct emergency closure is not a relevant comparison, because that was done all of a sudden with no mitigation in place and no transportation demand management (eg. street improvements, more buses, free bus passes if you live in West Seattle, Magnolia, etc.).
rebuild supporters have mocked King County Executive Ron Sims as some kind of enviro-whacko hippie for stating that we should be focused on moving people, not cars
i’d like to make it clear that my criticism of sims is that he believes the solution is more buses. while i support him on a great number of issues, his position is laughable. screwing over west seattle would just be the topper on that plan.
that said, it takes a whole other level of stupid hippie to believe that we should take another two years to wait, study, and then determine if their plan is even feasible. where were you two years ago goldy? your plan is only gaining momentum in your mind. the threat from the legislature isn’t because they’re scared; it’s to force us to make a good decision, and soon.
by the by, if we don’t have a state highway anymore, and something happens to the ship canal bridge (massive accident, terrorism, etc.), how do we get people through the city quickly & safely? this city isn’t comparable to san francisco. they only eliminated a spur. we’d be actively regressing our mobility.
@4 “Why do you have such a difficult time saying ‘Repair & Prepare?’”
Because throwing good money at a 55-year-old structure at the end of its design life makes no damn sense! In 1952, engineers didn’t know how to design such a structure to withstand the earthquakes that are possible around here; and geologists didn’t know about the Seattle Fault. Besides, repairing it would cost as much as building a new one; would you spend $20,000 to keep a 1980 Ford Escort running, or would you use that money to buy a new car? In any case, AWV is crumbling and can’t be retrofitted effectively; the most you could do is put bandaids on it. It’s time to blow it up.
OK, I retract all the recent statements I made about Puddybud being PacMan.
I just got back from having lunch with both of them and they are indeed two different people. Each of them was able to answer detailed questions from threads over a year ago. Something no stand in imposter would know since I didn’t give advance notice as to what questions I would ask to authenticate their identity.
Puddybud your gambling debt is paid in full. And, I’m proud to call both of you my friend — even though both of you have seriously flawed political thinking, your heart is in the right place.
Oh, and they are for sure B-L-A-C-K. We had one Hell of a time getting service!! But, don’t infer I meant the service was slow because they’re black, it was just slow.
We’ll do it again sometime Puddybud and PacMan.
Thanks again,
GBS
‘93RSAmerica911/’85944 :) :)
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re 24: BS. This is a repeat of a post from about a year ago. You are not going to give these two clowns free rein on this blog while they hide behind their supposed BLACKNESS. Don’t let these idiots have carte blanche to declare whoever they want to silence as a “racist”!
Fuhgeddaboudit!!!!!!!!
The problem, Goldy, is that the basic premises of your post are, sorry to say, dishonest.
1. The Governor isn’t painting herself into any “rhetorical corner” that exists anywhere but in your mind. Her responsibility is to maintain the capacity and the flow of a state highway, period.
2. The “surface-transit alternative” is hardly a compromise, and it is hardly a compromise in which anyone could claim victory, because — where’s the transit?
3. There is no “growing momentum” toward a surface option any more than there is growing momentum for Bush’s escalation in Iraq. And as that reality sets in, the tear-it-down crowd gets more frantic and pulls ever-wilder scenarios and “solutions” out of its collective ass just like the Bushies and their enablers, with all the same Fox News tactics.
4. The Governor may be risking some political capital, but only some, and no more than what goes with the territory, no matter what. Who’s the “tear-it-down” crowd going to vote for? BIAW butt boy Dino Rossi? That would be a smart political calculation, you betcha. By 2008, reality will have set in, and the recognition that the Governor’s job gives her no other choice — by law.
5. You’re grabbing at straws entirely by citing Sims and the EIS language — anything, anything that will bring down the Viaduct. The problem is that moving people requires a corridor to move them, and a mode to move them with.
Sims has proposed buses. I don’t oppose this, and I don’t bash Sims for suggesting it. It’s quite the contrary. Sims is doing the best with what he has available, and that is surface streets. I applaud his plan, I voted for it with pleasure, but it’s only a start.
Until there is a separate transit right of way other than those surface streets, we need the Viaduct to remain in place — rebuilt or repaired.
It is manifestly false, and entirely dishonest, to assume that we can do without it unless and until adequate transit alternatives are in place. Sims’ bus plan alone will not cut it, and you’d have to be living in a cave not to recognize that.
People aren’t getting out of their cars just because you and Will and Josh and Erica might wish them to. And the Governor, bless her heart, is not fooled that you have the muscle to make her back down.
Continue to fool yourself if you want, Goldy. It’s your blog. But you’re not fooling me.
Mr. Rabbit.
Are you an engineer?
@23
It makes a hell of a lot more sense to preserve the existing Viaduct at less than half the cost, rather than get stuck with a 75-year structure that will be a white elephant by the time it is built.
Victor Gray thinks it can be fixed, and so does a fellow by the name of Calvin Bannon:
“I am sure the engineers who designed the viaduct incorporated provisions for earthquakes. There was a large earthquake several years prior to the construction of the viaduct. Subsequently, there have been several earthquakes more severe so undoubtedly the structure needs some improvement.”
“Also, the designers of the existing viaduct were well aware that they were building in a liquification area. I had reviewed plans for the viaduct and observed that they installed many concrete piles of more than 120-feet in length under each column and they were driven until they rejected any further driving. I am sure the viaduct is stronger than the many other overhead structures around town that are also in liquification areas. It is to the credit of city and state engineers that they have attempted to improve them.”
Let’s get thirty years out of what we have, so that it can be removed in 2040. Seattle may not become Hong Kong, but residents ain’t gonna keep rattling around one-to-a-car, either.
@ 26:
Any beef you have with them about being “silenced” for being a racist is something you’re going to have to resolve with them. Man to man. I can’t do that for you. You’ll have to do what I did and go out and meet them.
What I’m saying is; I’ve met them, they are for sure black, and each of them had detailed knowledge about conversations we had on threads from a year ago.
If, Puddybud were posting as PacMan, then you’d have to presuppose the “other person” at the lunch today was someone else. That “other person” would not have possesed the detailed level of knowledge about the threads we posted. In other words, Puddybud would have had to brief an imposter on EVERY conversation we ever had AND the imposter would have had to memorize them.
Now, I’m not saying Puddybud hasn’t posted under different names, and I’m not saying that has, what I am saying is that Puddybud is NOT PacMan.
Oh, yeah, and I let him off light by not eating the whole $25 worth of sushi, but the bet is settled.
Sorry if that disappoints my fellow libs on the blog, but that is the truth.
GBS at 24
You’re a brave soul. Dining with the mentally unbalanced should generally be left to professionals in the mental health field. Did your two lunchmates drool?
@ 31:
LOL.
No, they didn’t drool and they used their utensils!
@28 no, he’s Goldy.
Proud Leftist:
I wouldn’t characterzie them as mentally unbalanced, they were, in fact, freindly, respectful, reasoned, and cordial.
It’s just their politics needs some refinement, that’s all.
Let’s get thirty years out of what we have, so that it can be removed in 2040. Seattle may not become Hong Kong, but residents ain’t gonna keep rattling around one-to-a-car, either.
That’s more practical, I think, because I’m very skeptical of ideas that we’re going to be able to REDUCE vehicle trips. Not while the population of the US is growing (from 200 million to 300 million just during my lifetime), and not while there isn’t enough housing in Seattle.
At this point, the goal has to be to “densify” the city center and urban areas. We’re doing some of that in downtown, First Hill and Belltown, but not enough, and I’m still disappointed in the continuing trend of botching decisions (Forward Thrust, CAP, Sound Transit, fussing about mother-in-laws and “skinny” houses, etc.) To get an idea of how retard-er, I mean, “challenged” we are, Sound Transit does not have a light rail stop on First Hill- the single biggest urban center in the state of Washington, a major employment AND living center. How goddamned stupid is that?
SO PUDDYBUD SETTLED HIS DEBT. ABOUT FREAKING TIME. TOO BAD MWS COULDN’T MAKE IT. LMAO!!! HEY GBS WAS THERE ANY BANTER ABOUT ABLE DANGER? ABOUT CRACKPOT? ABOUT SHAFTER? HOW ABOUT THAT PHONY GORELICK WALL THAT SLADE GORTON SAID DIDN’T EXIST?
GEE THINGS ARE IMPROVING AROUND HERE. THE REDNECK BET WELSHER IS NO WHERE TO BE SEEN. JCH IS MIA. THAT ODIOUS ASS IS GONE. THE IRRELEVANT BIAW KLOWN POPPED HIS USELESS HEAD UP FOR A BIT AND WEN BACK UNDER.
JUST GOES TO SHOW WHAT HAPPENS WHEN REALITY HITS THE WINGNUTS WITH A CLUE BY FOUR.
Goldy,
I don’t recall that you posted an update to the election for the conservation district, but the “pro-asphalt” guy won.
http://www.kingcd.org/new_ele_res_2007.htm
Oh well.
I don’t believe Puddybud and Pacman are real. We’ve been through this before.
The real GBS will start posting again and disavow any knowledge of this.
There is NO WAY Puddybud is who you say he is. I will deconstruct everything the bastard says and prove it to you.
So, they are REALLY BLACK, GBS — not caramel or olive?
@ 38:
Dude, really, I know how you feel. But trust me on this one, there is no way both of them could have known some of the obscure details to conversations we had on HA if one of them was an imposter.
Don’t you think I thought of that in advance?
Don’t you think I had some questions already formulated to authenticate them?
Don’t you think I had already rehearsed a story already made up that I wasn’t GBS in case things went wrong, that I was a co-worker of GBS’
Do you think I just walked up to two black guys and said “Hi, I’m GBS from HA are you Puddybud and PacMan?”
Do you think I gave a “real” description of myself for them to be looking out for?
Do you think I picked the parking lot side of Uwajimaya as a meeting place by some random chance?
I picked that specific location so I could scout them in advance from the produce section of the store without them knowing they were being observed. Two black guys, no one watching from parked cars, no one to the north, no one to the south, no one watching from inside the store, except me.
Everything was thought out in advance – no surprises.
So when I strolled out of the store not making eye contact with them until I walked up and asked them for “the time.” When Puddybud looked at his watch, that gave me the chance to size them both up close to satisfy my need to know they had to be in the “right” age range per the history of our conversations. Once I was satisfied it was them, the age range was right and one more look around to make sure no one was moving on me, I asked if they were “waiting to meet somebody.” You want to talk about the “look” on Puddybud’s face, for that brief instant, the moment of truth if you will, I knew I had achieved the element of surprise and they did in fact come alone.
Hell, PacMan had his Blue Tooth going the whole time and didn’t even realize my approach until I asked if they were waiting for someone.
Everything was thought out in advance, even where I would sit in the restaurant so I could watch the entrance in case a wing-nut straggler came late.
It all went according to plan for a friendly encounter. And, of course, there was a back up plan in case things weren’t so friendly. One element of that plan was no ID on my person and no way to trace who I was. For a good reason. . .which will be left as is since, it was a friendly encounter.
Goldy,
The surface option should be considered dead. The fact is, the vast majority of people who work in Seattle, don’t live there. The Fact is, the vast majority of people who work in Seattle, and don’t live there, drive their personal vehicles, for a variety of reasons. Cutting off a major arterial and putting more empty buses and more empty cars through the downtown core and I-5 is a stupid idea. Personally, I would love Her Majesty, the Queen, to support that idea. It would cause more than a little uproar in King county and help defeat her next year. Why don’t you do another fundraiser, and get gallup to do a poll in Seattle, to find out how many wackjobs like yourself are out there, and think the Surface Option is the best? And then, accept the results. I will.
GBS
Sociopaths are exceptionally talented at being friendly, appearing reasonable, sucking others into their game. Puddybud’s posts suggest he is a sociopath. But, hey, I’m not judging. I’m just saying making it through a lunch without ranting and foaming at the mouth hardly means he doesn’t need help. The fucker needs help, and it’s not just his politics that are wrong.
@ 39:
I’m not going to dive into private details of who they are, where they work, what their real names are etc, but. . .
I’ll describe them as this color of black;
I’d seriously doubt you’d use the word “nigger” in front of them. At least, in a derogatory term towards them.
Here’s my advice if you ever do meet them and you opt to call them nigger; Puddybud is the bigger of the two and he’s a good sized man, but you’re gonna want to keep on sharp eye on PacMan. I won’t say why, but given what I now know, odds are he’s your biggest threat.
Good luck with that, by the way.
GBS: Exactly as I said these libtards would react didn’t I? Remember GBS I invited these morons to come on down. Notice their seething anger. Notice their speaking out of their ASS! Notice the vitriol.
HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR! Too bad libtard SIMPLETONS!
PL @ 43:
Hey, I’m not saying I made a hard core psycho-analysis, what I am saying is that PacMan and Puddybud are two different people and not just because TWO people showed up for lunch.
I don’t make it a habit to fall into ambushes easily and not asking probing questions to test the validity of their claims would be doing exactly that. And, I didn’t ask easy questions, quite frankly, I wove complex and detailed questions into our conversation and was still probing for the first 5 minutes or so.
One person can suck you in, as you say, easier than two people can. See, that’s one of the easiest scams to trip up. One of the two will almost always contradict themselves or each other against your own knowledge base. It’s like playing chess, the move you make now isn’t for the sake of the moment, it’s for a later play. Same idea.
Hey, thanks again for lunch, Puddybud. The rolls didn’t make it past 2 pm.
Mmmmmm. . . good.
Union Fireman,
Tell me, exactly, what it is that Governor Gregoire has done to earn being called, “Her Majesty, the Queen.” She is far less imperial than your president. She, for instance, respects the rule of law and the legislative process. Your president does not. Just because a small mind like yours disagrees with her does not justify your insult. You must be a misogynyst, like most conservatives.
@14 While it’s not my intent to promote Rob McKenna, if we had to have a Republican governor, Rob McKenna is a lot more qualified than Rossi is. Rossi has no qualifications whatsoever. McKenna at least has some leadership and experiential credentials; Rossi is merely a glib-tongued real-estate salesman who briefly supervised 1 part-time janitor while in college. Hardly a qualification to run an organization that employs over 100,000 people.
@18 Another possible explanation of my absence last weekend is that my computer crapped out and I didn’t get it back until yesterday because — voila — the computer repairman gets Sundays off. But that’s probably too esoteric for someone of Wrong Stuff’s intellectual capabilities to grasp.
@50 Sure am glad I bought one with a RAID system. Didn’t have to reload any of the programs or data files.
@20 Yeah, I know. That’s why I’m for limited government and enforcing the Constitution with the power of impeachment when presidents overstep their constitutional authorization.
Looks like Tony Blair is taking advantage of Bush’s troop surge to yank his people out of there.
@22 “(assuming synchonized stoplights, and that you’d do 60 mph now)”
That’s a brave assumption …
@25 We got only 2 African Americans on this board and they’re both Republicans? How the fuck did THAT happen? Goldy needs to hire an outreach director. We’d better organize another HA fundraiser.
@28 I would like to add that AWV moves more than people, it also moves freight, and you can’t move freight with buses.
@29 No, I’m a lawyer.
@29 (continued) Being a lawyer means a know a little bit about everything, and not a lot about anything.
re 35 GBS:
“I wouldn’t characterzie them as mentally unbalanced, they were, in fact, freindly, respectful, reasoned, and cordial.”
re 45:Puddybud says:
“GBS: Exactly as I said these libtards would react didn’t I? Remember GBS I invited these morons to come on down. Notice their seething anger. Notice their speaking out of their ASS! Notice the vitriol.
HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR! Too bad libtard SIMPLETONS!”
The real GBS wouldn’t have misspelled “friendly”,or, “characterize”.
But the idiot who poses as Puddybud, the REALLY, REALLY BLACK MAN, would.
GBS: ” …freindly, respectful, reasoned, and cordial.” !!!!!!!!!
Puddybud: “I invited these morons to come on down. Notice their seething anger. Notice their speaking out of their ASS! Notice the vitriol.
HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR! Too bad libtard SIMPLETONS!”
Need I say more?
@32 Yeah, especially if they make you eat raw fish.
@44 He was fingering a Vaseline jar all through lunch?
@60 It’s true that someone has been impersonating GBS. I’ll withhold judgment for a while.
http://mediamatters.org/items/200702220004
NY Post, Fox News touted flawed GOP poll to claim “America Says Let’s Win [Iraq] War”
Summary: “The New York Post and Fox News touted a poll that found that “57 percent of Americans supported ‘finishing the job in Iraq’ — keeping U.S. troops there until the Iraqis can provide security on their own.” But neither the Post nor Fox News noted that the company that conducted the poll considers itself a “Republican polling firm” and that poll questions apparently were, according to the head of a different Republican polling firm, “designed to register certain responses.”
http://www.educationanddemocra.....on_all.pdf
The Business Roundtable and Systemic Reform:
How Corporate-Engineered High-Stakes Testing Has Eliminated Community
Participation in Developing Educational Goals and Policies
By
KATHY EMERY
B.A. (Mt. Holyoke College, South Hadley, Mass.) 1977
M.A.L.S. (New School for Social Research, New York) 1985
DISSERTATION
Submitted in partial satisfaction of the requirements for the degree of
DOCTOR OF PHILOSOPHY
in
Education
in the
OFFICE OF GRADUATE STUDIES
of the
UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA
GBS: This thread proves the worthlessness of the libtard mind. If you disagree with a libtard, you are a out of your mind!
I’m glad you enjoyed the rolls. It was my parting gift.
Now I know Harry Poon is headless lucy.
Headless the racist one: You were a major conversational topic at lunch.
Anybody see the WWU Journalist Professor Emeritus’s article in the Seatlte Times about Portland in the 1970s? THe author of that article was a journalist working in Portland and got a first hand view of what became their 1974 Freeway Revolt.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.c.....cation=rss
proud leftist @43 says: Nuthin much.
But to clarify, your post declare you to be a psychopath. So what? I’ll still debate issues with ya!
ivan @28: Hallelujah and amen!
EvergreenRailfan @67: McKay neglects to mention two important things: First of all, Portland replaced its waterfront freeway with I-405, and I-5 is still on the east bank of the Willamette River.
Secondly, Portland actually did that because it was more concerned about livability than with being a world-class city. Mark my words, if the viaduct isn’t rebuilt, the resulting Alskan Way will look nothing like Tom McCall Waterfront Park. It’ll look more like Western Avenue between the viaduct and the sculpture park.
Furball the voluminous poster: We talked and talked and talked and talked and … … … … … about you too.
GBS: You made one mistake. You thought proud libtard had a mind. Asserting chess analogies is lost on a person such as him. Try checkers!
Furball@58: Did you figure how to use “If” as a noun yet? How was that visit to the Moonbat!s of Cuyahoga County, Ohio?
Nice post, Goldy.
A freeway is supposed to get you TO the central city, and a bypass is for through traffic. The choices for the bypass are I-90 and 405. The Viaduct is a bypass for the convenience of a few in Ballard and West Seattle (hurl brickbats here). It is not a freight mobility asset. A bit of creative traffic engineering is called for here to disperse traffic where needed and route it north and south.
There are a lot of cities who have dealt successfully with having a shoreline. Emulate success.
RogerRabbit@63 I’m with you bud. The PudSucker and The PudSucker Proxy are just too unbalanced.
Puddybud @ 71:
The chess analogy was specifically intended for you. You’ll have to contemplate that one for a while.
I’m “stupid like a fox” which means I don’t lead with my trump cards.
Froggy: We wondered why you didn’t show up. GBS smiled when I suggested you are 5′ 5″ with a pimply ASS. PacMan laughed heartily!
You’re not a real man. You hide behind your PC. You fear meeting me, because you’ll be exposed for what you are: a scrawny libtard, all fingers, no guts!
BTW GBS got to see my height and dressing style. He can attest to my over 6 feet height.
Oh.. and one more thing. Voice of Chalk Scratching caches IP Addresses. He would admit if that was not GBS above. Damn yous libtards are STUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUPIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIID!
Yous a sucka when yous little and stills a sucka now!
Good morning, Puddybud:
Harry Poon @ 59:
The last thing I am is a walking, talking spell checker. I do make an occasional typo from time-to-time. JCH used to love to jump on it when I committed such egregious errors.
GBS: I had to carry my wallet. I was paying.
We were up front with ourselves to prove to you who we are. When you look a person in the eye, one can see if truth is there! We opened up to you for a bit to show we were up and up!
Good morning GBS!
I take it your night went well? I’ll call PacMan and ask him to post. Remember what he said as we left?
GBS: Harry Poon is headlice loosy! Voice of Chalk Scratching only outs his political enemies. He wants those high blog view values!
Puddybud:
Don’t bother PacMan rigth now. I’m about to go off line. I have more work to do today than I can squeeze in between now and 6:30pm.
Mainly, I wanted to catch up on the overnight posting. Yesterday I just wanted to post that we met, we didn’t kill each other, both of you are for sure BLACK, and uh, oh yeah, I pulled the emails PacMan sent to my yahoo account last year.
My Knight takes your Bishop, “you jean.”
Intesting post GBS. Just got to my destination.
I jean well. Does PacMan?
He needs to post!
GBS is a big boy. He can choose his friends from where ever he chooses, including from the ranks of the deranged and lying wingnuts. . .wingnuts who I might add, have been caught lying about their relationship with him.
That doesn’t add lustre to Pudsucker, and his Pudsucker Proxy.
I have too many outside means to verify anyhting I want to know about Darrell witout relying on “GBS”.
Lagunitas. Laguna. Laguna Hills, Hayward.
Suck on that Pudsucker.
If Puddy and PACMAN really wanted to prove they are who they claim, there is an event that takes place every Tuesday at the Montlake Ale House where they could materialize for several people who post here.
As it is, I don’t know them OR GBS, so whatever they post here is purely entertainment (or not) for me.
Maybe Will, Dayrl, or others who show up at Drinking Liberally wouldn’t comment on these fellows, but a least there would be a chance of them attaining what they seem to want. Why they want to be verified to be black is unclear.
House N—-, Uncle Tom, racist — not much of an honor to be catagorized as any of them.
‘All day, all night, all white’: Jesse Jackson on the Oscars
Hilary Supporter in South Carolina makes racist comments against Barack Obama. Racist Moonbat! talk!
We are proud black men. Proud to not be led by Moonbat!s like Scary Shuttle!
Froggy: Let’s set a date to meet your scrawny pimply 5′ 5″ ASS! Stop hiding behind your keyboard!
Harry Tuttle: Why come and watch Drunken Libtards? To be ridiculed in our face? Even Spock would have a hard time figuring out Libtard illogicalness!
Good job highlighting the purpose and need statement. Expect the state DOT to say that if we consider building a practical surface approach we need to un-do the whole environmental process at great cost and delay.
That’s what they are now telling the Governor. And it is so much BS.
These DOT guys would have a lot more credibility if they’d quit hiding things from people and if they hadn’t spent tens of millions designing “solutions” that can never be built.
The waste on this rivals the tens of millions they wasted trying to build the Hood Canal bridge pontoons in a sacred graveyard before finally deciding it was immoral.
The only difference is that they bumbled into the graveyard and any idiot could see that the City of Seattle would never agree to build a bigger elevated freeway over its waterfront.
Puddybud @ 83:
No. . . I don’t think you’re gettin’ me. I said I pulled PacMan’s” emails from last year.
My Knight takes your “Rook.” Does that make a little bit more sense to yo now, “You Gene.”
This was your Babe buddy
don’t through her out now……
Oh By the way I just gotta love Joe, he will soon be turning the Senate over….Ha Ha
The only Democrat I have ever given money too. He deserves every thousand of it.