I’ve had the opportunity to meet King County Prosecuting Attorney Norm Maleng, and found him rather likable and reassuring, in a grandfatherly sort of way. One of the last of the old-style moderates who used to dominate the state GOP, he’s the only Republican to win a majority in King County in any statewide or countywide race since at least 1998. I don’t remember if I voted for him the last time around, but it’s safe to say I was not the only Democrat who felt comfortable with Maleng serving in an office that demands competence and integrity over partisan political allegiance.
And so it was with great disappointment that I saw Maleng join his party yesterday in grandstanding on the issue of voter registration challenges.
Republican challenges to hundreds of King County voters’ registrations have exposed a “serious flaw” in voter rolls statewide that needs to be fixed quickly to restore public trust, county Prosecutor Norm Maleng said Tuesday.
He called on the attorney general, secretary of state and Legislature for help, and said his office is prepared to investigate voters who persist in maintaining registration addresses at private-mailbox businesses and other locations where they don’t live.
“It is not acceptable that these incomplete and illegal registrations are allowed to stand without being corrected,” the Republican prosecutor said at a news conference.
No, what is needed to “restore public trust”, Norm, is for you and your party to stop cynically distorting the performance of elections officials for cheap, political gain. On the day when King County certified its results, reporting a remarkably well-run election with perhaps the fewest discrepancies ever, you decide to step on the good-news story by staging a press conference that dishonestly implies that there are hundreds of illegal voters on the rolls. And you say your goal is to restore public trust?
Are some voters improperly registered at mailboxes? Obviously. Is there a single scrap of evidence that this is due to anything but an innocent error by voters or elections officials, or that a single one of these voters is otherwise ineligible vote? No. But when Maleng comes out and starts talking about “illegal” registrations, people are going to think he’s talking about “voter fraud”, and that’s just plain wrong… and Maleng knows it. Rather than working with Logan to address the issue, he’s decided to cynically join his party in turning it into an adversarial process.
Earlier this week the Canvassing Board voted 2-to-1 to reject a majority of the registration challenges because Lori Sotelo failed to provide the voters’ actual addresses as required by statute. Maleng calls this legal reasoning “strained” and is asking Attorney General Rob McKenna and Sec. of State Sam Reed to impose a less rigid interpretation. But in doing so, Maleng is actually going against the legal advice of the elections experts in his own office.
In a series of memos and emails (PDF) to the Canvassing Board, Janine Joly — the Sr. Deputy Prosecuting Attorney assigned by Maleng to advise King County Elections — addresses the legal issues in depth, and lays out the grounds for dismissing insufficient challenges.
“The challenger’s failure to allege an actual address either in her challenge form or at the hearing is a fatal flaw and should invalidate the challenge. Any other decision would be contrary to the plain language of the statute even if it appears from the other evidence provided that the challenged voter is not registered at a valid residence address.”
Joly also advises that indeed, according to the WAC, “a mailbox facility could be a nontraditional address since it is an identifiable location,” and if a voter deems this to be his residence he should be “registered and precincted based on the location provided.” In reaching this conclusion Joly addresses an apparent contradiction in the WAC:
“Though the WAC could be read to require those with nontraditional addresses to be registered at public buildings, that interpretation would conflict with one of the purposes of the voter registration statutes and rules, which is to ensure that voters only vote for the candidates and measures that correspond to the area in which they reside and consequently affect them. […] Based on this principle which has been incorporated in Washington State election laws, the apparent contradiction in the WAC should be resolved in favor of registering a person to vote where he resides — the nontraditional address or mailbox facility.”
The irony of Maleng’s grandstanding is that it was Dean Logan and Dow Constantine who followed the Prosecutors Office’s legal advice, and Maleng’s own representative on the Canvassing Board, Dan Satterberg, who ignored it. Thus in asking Repubicans McKenna and Reed to issue an opinion that would leave the door open to future, poorly researched, mass challenges, Maleng is not only siding with his party against the rights of voters, he is also siding with the GOP against the attorney in his office whose job it is to interpret election statutes.
No doubt Maleng has been under great pressure from members of his own party, but if this entered his political calculus, he may have made a huge mistake. Nothing he does can possibly shore up his support amongst the rabid right that is seizing control of the KCGOP leadership. And he is sending a clear message to moderate Democrats and independents that we no longer enjoy a political climate where we have the luxury of electing centrist Republicans, without the risk of unforeseen political consequences.
Maleng will never draw fervent support from the activists in his own party, and his recent actions will surely turn off some of the Democratic swing voters to whom he owes his previous victories. If the Democrats field a strong challenger in the next election, Maleng could easily find himself joining the likes of Dan Evans and Ralph Munroe, on the outside looking in at more radical, more mean-spirited, and ever smaller Republican Party.
And it will be his own damn fault.
UPDATE:
The Seattle P-I editorial board basically agrees with me, saying that “Maleng has actually turned the partisan volume not down, but up.”
King County Prosecutor Norm Maleng is right in saying that it’s time for political parties to “lower their voices” over disputed voter registrations. So why raise his own voice on the issue?
Maleng is a respected public official, but he is a partisan politician. The Republican Party has tried to criminalize election issues by alleging that nearly 2,000 voters violated the law by registering at mailboxes and mini-storage units.
It’s the 4 C’s
Conspiracy,
Culture,
Corruption,
Conservatism.
That’s all you need to know.
Improper registrations ? Not illegal ones ? Geeze…give me a break. If I register against the law, it’s illegal. Is it malicious ? Is it on purpose ? Is it a mistake ? Could be all or just one…but in all cases it’s against the law…therefore illegal.
So, if I drive 30 miles per hour past a school, claim I didn’t know there was a school nor did I presumably see the sign…
should I now pay the ticket I got…cuz it was just improper, not illegal ?
Stop spinning and support the cleaning up of voter rolls (be there many or just a few “improper” registrations. And don’t point to other counties …they need to clean up as well. As long as you and others on this board don’t support a proper registration and clean rolls, you will not have the credibility.
Does anybody read the RCW anymore? What the fuck.
‘Restoring public trust’ goes totally against everything the GOP and conservatives stand for.
Without this endless string of silly right wing populist appeals, the GOP would be nowhere.
George W. Doorknob is starting to experience the downside of this strategy, however. You can only keep pulling people’s chains for so long. After a while, they catch on to the lies, the deceptions, and the pathetic grandstanding.
Yes, clean voter rolls of blacks. We should send cops to set up road blocks in their neighborhoods on election day, that way they know to vote.
When GOoPers proclaim massive voter fraud, they do it because they love me. They want me to feel good about the system… Unfortunatly, they’re the guys burning it down. Assclowns.
“So, if I drive 30 miles per hour past a school, claim I didn’t know there was a school nor did I presumably see the sign…
should I now pay the ticket I got…cuz it was just improper, not illegal ?”
Oh boy – bad analogy, AnnoyYourself. Half the time, the cop gives you a warning, or the judge waves it down to nothing.
We point to other counties, because liars like Rossi (and grandstanders like Maleng) are trying to convince their sheep (and you ignorant minions) that King County is the only place with problems.
Goldy illustrated the exact opposite was true.
According to Joly:
I can on a voter registration card do the following:
List my residental address as :
The stop light at corner of 5th & Pike, Seattle WA
Mailing address as PO Box 123 Pe Ell, WA.
And that all would be LEGAL?????
What the hell is going on. I believe the WAC’s rule was intended to list the address of where you place your head every night. Some homeless may sleep near a stoplight, but I doubt they walk to Pe Ell to get their mail.
Nor do I believe they live in a 3×3 box inside a UPS store either. They may reside in the store, but not a couple thousand of them don’t.
All of the “questionable” registered voters have been contacted, let them declare where they live, and if they choose to NOT declare their residence, then they don’t deserve to vote. Just follow the rules and laws, is all that the average voter is asking.
I hope Maleng does his job, because that is what he is suppose to do, unlike other’s at KCE.
Annoy @ #5 and #6
You need to get out more. Rosa Parks took the bus ride along time ago, as a young woman, and just passed away recently.
Your Signature is a sign of your social upbringing. I feel sorry for you.
Why is it GOPers are so excited about putting regular folks in pokey? A person’s voting rights are not to be fucked with, unless you have proof of fraud.
Yeah, I’m so mad, just like you, Chris. Nobody’s doing their job at KCE, theyre all fucking fuckwits. But ofcourse, you get to believe anything you want.
Oh, have you met a black person? Do they let them into Bellevue?
@2
So, is Iraq an illegal war because Saddam didn’t have WMDs?
It’s too bad Maleng opted for partisanship and grandstanding instead of using the authority of his office to constructively improve the election process in King County.
By the way, how long has Maleng been prosecuting attorney? 25 years? These “problems” he now decries have been there for a long time — on his watch.
If someone hasn’t been doing their job, Dean Logan isn’t the only one Norm.
Annoy @ #11
What the hell are you smokin? I have family that is black, and what does that have to do with Bellevue? Do you think I Live There???? haaaahaaaahaaaaa
I live in Lewis County, and I am damn straight tired of KC elections and their screwups. I want my VOTE to count in statewide races, and not cancelled out by a lil person living in a 3 x 3 mailbox….. I have to follow all the rules and reg’s and so should everyone else.
If it takes a federal investigation/audit to clean up or verify that all counties in this state have clean voter rolls, then so be it.
BTW Jesus loves everyone, so please leave him outta this….
Mr Rabbit
Dean logan has changed many of the procedures in his tenure, and I believe you can find them in MSM reports, if you are looking for particulars.
I think I read from the PI that KCE used to (2002 prior) check the address to make sure it was a residental address and the form was filled out correctly.
Norm M. just announced his political retirement.
His sucessor will be a Democrat.
His public blather is swill. Partisian swill.
He is setting up a resume for a cushion retirement job.
I will never vote for him again.
Remember how Dan Evans, yes the very retired and out of sight Dan, trotted to the rescue of Rossi.
Kinda pathetic how the old guard in the R Party become the water boys for their own right wing.
@ 15
Your illegal votes are as harming to my legal votes. Lewis Co. probably had a higher error rate than King.
BTW, just teasing about the black stuff. As for Bellevue, I forgot that Chris Vance has troops in all corners of the Commonwealth.
@13
Who grandstanded first? Maleng or Sims? I saw them both on TV last night……… Did they have a (undercover) fight?
@17
Damn, that’s how I feel about Sam Reed!
Goldy—-
My God Man, have you no shame!!!
Maleng calls it like he sees it.
It appears the LEFTIST PINHEADS are striving to do everything they can to allow questionable registrations to easily continue.
Goldy, your argument here is ludicrous at best.
Logan has done everything in his power to politicize everything that was done to question his actions.
Logan is supposed to make certain only legally registered voters vote and all the ballots are accounted for. Logan has made it more complicated than it should be by defending his lack of action at every turn.
None of this matters as long as we let Diebold control the outcome of our elections. Sure, you’re saying that’ll never happen here, but it already is.
Stand up for your Democracy and end black-box voting before it’s too late.
Gleefully watching Dems drink their own piss on this one…
Yeah, ya’ll won’t do jack to investigate KCRE irregularities, daring us to challenge voters.
Thank you Norm for being the last honest man in this county
@2:
There is absolutely nothing Dean Logan could do to restore his credibility in your eyes. Similarly, GW Bush has no credibility in my opinion, and there is nothing he can do to “restore” it. As you can see, this is an argument that doesn’t have a lot of traction with just about anybody.
As for your whining about “the law is the law”, well Lori S. obviously did not have “personal knowledge” of the real addresses of these enemies of the republic. She clearly broke the law. She should be under indictment right now.
Do you agree? Yes or no.
THE NON-GOVERNOR’S NON-ANNOUNCEMENT
Earlier today, Dino the Sore Loser told the media he would make an announcement today. Well, he did. He announced that he’ll announce in 2007 whether he’ll run for governor in 2008.
Sounds exactly like the clear, unambiguous leadership he provided on I-912.
Chris @15
Sounds like sour grapes from the losing side to me! If King County hadn’t had so many screwups, Gregoire would have won all three counts, and Rossi would have paid for the recount.
Why should a prosecutor be a partisan office?
@16
“Dean logan has changed many of the procedures in his tenure, and I believe you can find them in MSM reports, if you are looking for particulars.”
Considering that Logan’s predecessor was fired and he inherited a mess, one should hope he changed procedures. That’s what he was hired to do.
Hey buddy, listen up. You wingnuts have gotten all the traction you’re gonna get from demonizing Logan and KCE. King County’s error rates are on a par with other counties and states, and far better than the two states that gave Bush the 2000 and 2004 presidential elections. Until you’re willing to criticize Ken Blackwell (who made voters wait hours in line to vote) and Katherine Harris (who disenfranchised over 57,000 LEGAL voters), your arguments ring very, very hollow.
Go screw yourself.
Hey all you trolls, don’t give yourselves hemorrhoids trying to twist Sotelo’s criminal enterprise into Logan-bashing! Your brains may separate from your bodies from shitting so hard!
I said it before, and I’ll say it again: NORM MALENG IS AN ASS!
Dispicable, what he has done. Joly is right on, Maleng is wrong.
Goldie, I’m glad you brought up Ralph Monroe’s name…I used to think he would be a pretty even-handed governor or congressman despite being repulsivecan. But he showed his true colors last year, by being the one who demanded a “new election”. He proved that he was an ass by saying that…throwing dozens of years of elections experience and bipartisan respect out the window.
The repulsivcans are not interested in fair elections, they only want to stack the deck.
LiberalRedneck@7
No one said King County was the only one with problems, the problem is that King County’s problems resonate through the state and cause problems like the wrong person taking the governors chair and things like that.
Annoy a Conservative aka Belltowner
I think that prosecuting Lori S. is as important as prosecuting the “illegally” registered voters she challenged. If those people can’t prove they live in the District/Mailbox/Precinct that they are registered in, then to hell with them.
If Lewis County has illegally registered voters then they should be punished too.
If Dean Logan hadn’t made several “executive” decisions to eliminate the Checks & Balances that were in place prior to his tenure, most of these “screwups” would not being made public. Some of his “eliminations” are part of the State’s Election Laws, and he hasn’t been prosecuted.
So if Dean Logan has “under his tenure” removed procedures that insured voter roll integrity, should he be prosecuted?
Leykis is off of the radio…everyone should call 206-285-7625 and voice their complaints….or sit back and listen to country music…whichever you want to do.
@28,
I was totally disgusted by voters waiting in line. That didn’t just happen in Ohio, it also happened in Florida and probably elsewhere. In defense of those elected officials who let that happen, the voter turnout was massive compared to the previous general election in the Ohio precincts. That said, there isn’t any excuse for city councils not providing the necessary supplies and equipment to take care of the people in those cities in a fast and efficient manner. They certainly didn’t do that.
@33
He’s disgusting, why listen to him or country music either!
As usual Goldy, you got it exactly wrong.
Maleng is doing the right thing by calling bullshit on Sims and his partisan Cabal. These people are openly violating the law. And he’s right to tell Sims to pound sand on going after Sotelo.
Now if you were to suggest that Sam Reed is in political trouble re election corruption, I’d agree wif ya. RINOs like him are useless. Hopefully, he’ll surrender before he’s up again, and we can get a real street fighter in there to take on assholes like you.
I have to admit I have never seen such compassion for the homeless as has been demonstrated on this whole argument about living in a mail box.
Admit it-none of you care less about the homeless. You just want to preserve a bunch of moonbats who registered at the last minute at the call of moron.com. These are reliable, if illegal, democrat voters. If they exist, let them come forward.
If Dean Logan was doing his job, Lori Sotelo would never have needed to file the challenges. I don’t care that Dean has cleaned up the rolls somewhat. I don’t care if the error rate in King County is more or less than Timbuktu. I care about whether my vote is being disenfranchised by people who have no regard for the law or the process, and the problem can be fixed. Logan already disallows those who are stupid enough to put PO Box or PMB in their address. Why not take the next step?
LiberalRedneck – Gul durn it. Who the fuck are you???? Yer new to this cesspool. I am the only redneck round these here parts. I take exception to you using the word redneck. Usn’s rednecks got us a proud tradition and you ain’t part of it.
Change yer handle. How ’bout Liberal_freeloader_appeaser?
Goldy, did you discuss this matter with “Lawyer X”, or is “Lawyer X” just a clueless dumbass?
Public law departments have to represent different clients, as well as different functions within the same department, in their civil law capacity. That is why different lawyers from the same agency may have different views about the law or the facts — whether you look at the King County Prosecuting Attorney’s Office, the Washington Attorney General’s Office, or the U.S. Department of Justice.
About 25% or 30% of the 200 or so lawyers in Maleng’s office work on the civil side, representing and advising various King County officials. The rest, of course, work in various prosecution roles.
Janine Joly is assigned to REPRESENT and ADVISE Dean Logan. The Rules of Professional Conduct place her duties to this particular client, even if her boss may have a different view of the law and different views about public policy. Logan’s own duties, of course, are to administer the Elections Department, including adjudication functions (i.e. judging voter challenges).
Norm Maleng has other lawyers that would be responsible for filing voter challenges Dean Logan’s office on behalf of the State — as has been some with over 700 felons whom the prosecuting attorney’s office has challenged. These lawyers perform the prosecution function.
Prosecution and adjudication have to be kept as separate functions. The lawyers who prosecute have to be kept separate and independent from the lawyers who advise the adjudicators.
This happens quite frequently in other arenas. For example, various state agencies perform both an adjudication and a prosecution function. The State Board of Health deals with medical licenses. If discipline charges are being made against a doctor, there will be one assistant Attorney General who prosecutes the case before the Board. And there will be another assistant Attorney General who gives legal advice to the members of the Board who are judging the case. Obviously, these two lawyers will often have quite different views of the facts and the law. But this is necessary, and they must be kept separate and independent.
Not only that, but it is not unheard of for one state agency to actually sue another state agency. For example, the Commissioner of Public Lands (who is elected) might sue the Department of Ecology (headed by appointee of the Governor) over some issue, and different assistant Attorney Generals will represent each agency in court.
You can find plenty of situations where lawyers from the same public law department have taken different legal positions, because they were representing different agency clients, or were performing different functions (prosecution vs. adjudication).
This is true regardless of whether the public law department is headed by a Republican (such as Norm Maleng, Rob McKenna, or Alberto Gonzalez) or a Democrat (such as Christine Gregoire or Janet Reno).
Mr. Rabbit,
If I could screw myself, I wouldn’t need a Male to procreate.
What does Blackwell or Harris have to do with MY Post. I am talking about KC elections. I would surely be critical of both, if what you say is true (and i don’t doubt you).
If Logan inherited a “mess” as you say, then he surely hasnt improved the “mess” by his “adminstrative” decisions since.
Do you think Logan is Qualified for the position that he is currently holding in KC Elections?
@ 33, Chuck
Tom Leykis got pulled? WTF? How come?!?! Tell me, Chuck!
99.9 must be run by the biggest morons in the world. They got ONE franchise player in The Professor, and they got him on 10P to 2A. Highest rated drive time show in every market, and they put him on when nobody’s listening.
This is why commercial radio is dying. This is why XM and Sirius are taking over. But it’s OK… it’ll free up more RF bandwidth for more productive uses… prolly by military so they can use it to kill assholes more efficiently.
sgmmac@35
Dont subscribe to most of his political views but as far as relationships and much of man-woman affairs he is very correct.
Logan did inherit a mess. KCRE by all accounts was a mess up to 10 years ago. As a matter of fact, there was a big hoopla over illegal registrations before, it was addressed and got better, then Logan changed the procedures. He is not a leader, he is not qualified, he got his job because of cronyism with Sam Reed. He does have expierence in working in elections departments, but he is obviously lacks the leadership expierence for such a hugh operation.
Righton @ 24
“Yeah, ya’ll won’t do jack to investigate KCRE irregularities, daring us to challenge voters.”
Sorry…you are incorrect. In fact, KC did an enormous amount of work. They further eliminated a number of sources of error found during the election challenge. They undertook a large voter roll cleaning project (on top of the always ongoing roll cleaning, of course). And they instituted a number of procedural changes that further lowered the error rate.
It is a myth that the error rate in KC is high. By almost all error rate measures, some other WA counties (in 2004) had higher rates. It is also a fact that Washington, as a whole, had a lower error rate (in 2004) than other similar-sized and similarly scrutinized elections.
Belltowner@40
Wasnt just Leykis….big shakeup at KISW/The Buzz The Buss is now country music….
@42, I don’t know his political views, if I was judging his views on relationships and man-woman affairs, I wouldn’t say I would like that either. Someone, I think it was Lucy, posted his web page a few days ago and suggested that Lykis is a real man that all women would die for, since I am a woman and the rabbit was trying to say that women love metrosexual men (not true) I went to the web site and looked and my immediate reaction was “sexist pig.”
Mark The Redneck,
Did you pay up your gambling debt yet? As I recall, you must send $100 to Maria Cantwell as per your bet with Goldy. Cantwell’s web site works just fine. If you cannot figure out how to use it, send a check or cash.
In either case, pay up, jack!
@44
Sweet Jaysus. Let me guess. KISW gets Leykis and BJ Shea, while The Buzz keeps Robin and Maynard in the morning and then goes country… That’s fuckin’ unbelievable.
#25 Belltowner aka Annoy a Conservative.
Contrary to many folk, I believe that Logan can change and do things right…it is not as you say that there is nothing he can do to restore his credibility. I do agree with you, though that he currently doesn’t have one. So what should he do.
1. Actively and proactively follow the law and protect voter integrity.
2. Actively work on cleaning the voter rolls from any irregularity (for example use the 4 plus system, reject wrong registrations, etc.)
3. Work for the people of KC not for Sims or any other KC executive (no matter what party he/she might belong to)
4. Don’t make things up as he goes
5. Stop managing his department with fear (I know two people working in the KCE office and people are afraid to speak up )
6. Stop using human error as a scape goat for everything
And there are many more.
sgmmac@45
What is your TRUE weight and build? If we can determine this I think we can find out why you think he is a sexist pig….
Chris @ 39
“If Logan inherited a “mess” as you say, then he surely hasnt improved the “mess” by his “adminstrative” decisions since. “
On what objective criteria do you make this judgement? Because, from 2004 to 2005 general election it looks like the error rate went from very small to very very small.
“Do you think Logan is Qualified for the position that he is currently holding in KC Elections? “
He is exceptionally qualified. His peers in other counties also respect him and believe him to be well qualified.
Finally, earlier this month, the KC Citizen’s Oversight Committee gave him the thumbs up. Yeah…he’s qualified.
The talk about him not being qualified seems to be gossip spread by AM Talk radio and uSP. That seem to be fueled by anger (sore loser syndrome) over Rossi losing a very close election.
@48
Dean Logan can’t do any of those things that you suggest. He is partisian. He will remain that way to keep his big salary. He was hired by Sims and he must do what Sims wants or he loses his job. Period. Sims wrote a letter requesting that Maleng prosecute Sotelo and Maleng and Sims both lined up and had press conferences. In Sims’ press release he says he instructed Logan to personally contact all of the mailbox voters and get their addresses updated. So, all of this grandstanding and posturing is political hype to count a hundred or so ballots. http://www.metrokc.gov/exec/ne.....voters.htm
DJ @ Various
What do you think about the exceptionally high number of absentee voters who were disenfranchised by Dean Logan this year due to alleged signature mismatches?
@49,
HAH, I am 52, so my weight and height don’t matter. I rarely even wear makeup anymore. I wore BDU’s and combat boots too many years for the sexy cute stuff to be appealing. I dislike seeing women used as sex objects……. A little sexy okay… Motorcycles, leather, bikinis…….
@51 and DJ,
The pics that are posted on SP of the signature mis-matches should be enough to fire anyone up to get our legislature back to the real world. It is very obvious that some of those signatures matched that the canvassing board rejected. The pictures that Stefan posted of the crazy marked ballots also are a real problem and that applies to Democrats and Republicans. There has to be standards that are easily enforced state wide or the practice has to stop. The ballot that showed the X’s and the filled in cirles to the right were counted as a vote one day and the next day a ballot almost identical was counted as a undervote for Sims.
sgmmac@52
Thanks for honesty….guys arent…generally seeking you out. This is the entire point….
@ 48
What yer saying sounds good.
I have to check with DJ to see if I’m allowed to agree with you.
Whaddayah think there, DJ?
Richard @ 51,
“What do you think about the exceptionally high number of absentee voters who were disenfranchised by Dean Logan this year due to alleged signature mismatches? “
I don’t know the numbers, so I haven’t thought at all about it.
Clearly, based on how you asked the question, you think something is afoul. Are you seriously suggesting that KC needs to relax its standards for signature matching?
But even without knowing anything about the numbers this election, I know that for whatever reason (more stringent standards or less consistent voters?) King county has always reject a relatively high proportion of signatures compared to many other counties.
On the other hand, KC contacts everyone who forgets to sign their ballot or whose signature does not match, and gives them until the day of certification to get an affidavit to KC. So, votes at least have the opportunity to correct their error. That seems like a good policy to me.
But, do tell, Richard. What were you getting at by your question?
@54, I know your point, when you have suffered sexual harassment or had women who work for you suffer sexual harassment it tends to give you a bias. When you have a daughter and you have to fight off the demands from her to look, dress and act like Paris Hilton, instead of using her brain, it gives you a bias. Lucy indicated that this guy was God’s Gift to the female sex, and since he was held up to be the male that all women would want, I was expecting someone like, Bend it like Beckham, Bono, Brad Pitt and look at him, if I saw him in a mall, I wouldn’t even look at his butt once, let alone twice!
sgmmac @ 53
“The pics that are posted on SP of the signature mis-matches should be enough to fire anyone up to get our legislature back to the real world.”
You know, if someone is posting pictures of signature matching at uSP, I am not going to get fired up. Chances are, the poster (Sharkansky?) selected the worse possible cases and is ignoring thousands of less controversial matches. The fact that KC is more stringent (or, at least has a higher signature reject rate) and KC gives those whose signature don’t match an opportunity to correct their error, means that KC is probably erring on the side of integrity.
“It is very obvious that some of those signatures matched that the canvassing board rejected. The pictures that Stefan posted of the crazy marked ballots also are a real problem and that applies to Democrats and Republicans.”
You know…given the choice of believing the people who do this for a living and believing the interpertation and outcome from what Sharkansky posts…I think I’ll go with the pros. Really…Sharkansky all too often demonstrates a lack of common sense.
“There has to be standards that are easily enforced state wide or the practice has to stop.”
The Washington State Supreme Court disagrees with you on the “state standards for signatures” issue.
“The ballot that showed the X’s and the filled in cirles to the right were counted as a vote one day and the next day a ballot almost identical was counted as a undervote for Sims. “
Ditto my comment above about Sharkansky. He probably misunderstood what was going on. In any case, he probably showed only the most extreme (and rare) cases.
Yeah, Maleng is a marked man if he runs again. What a shame.
Running unopposed in 2002, Maleng garnered 67% of the vote.
No more free passes.
And I figure Sotelo/KCGOP still get nailed, only in another forum.
Belltowner @ 55
“Whaddayah think there, DJ? “
Hey…think whatever you want, man. Just don’t shoot me! :-)
@58
Stefan’s work is actually very good. His research is very comprehensive and he has uncovered the truth on numerous occasions, much more so than the Times or the PI. I don’t know about Goldy, because I just started reading over here recently. I like to see both sides of issues and differing opinions. Is Stefan partisian, yes. Is Goldy partisian, yes. Stefan has made a distinct impact on KCRE, they know by now that they can’t spin it like they used to, and regardless of which side you are on that is a good thing. Bloggers are changing politics radically because what public officials used to get away with is being exposed. It’s being exposed on both sides.
It’s the 4 C’s
Conspiracy,
Culture,
Corruption,
Conservatism.
That’s all you need to know.
Comment by GBS— 11/30/05 @ 3:41 pm
Wrong GBS- You missed the last one.
Conspiracy,
Culture,
Corruption,
Commies
And the 5th C is Clinton for the most corrupt president ever.
Perjury- He admitted to it
Paula Jones
Troopergate
Whitewater
Vince Foster
Chinese Campaign contributions
FBI filegate
Ron Brown investigation
Sandy Burgler
Linclon Bedroom
Teamsters scandal
Johny Chung- California business man campaign fund raising scandal
Gennifer Flowers
Juanita Brodrick-
Travelgate
Espy
Henery Cisneros
Frank Rich Pardon
Rose Law Firm billing scandal- Web Hubbell
chris@8 Are you insane? Read the actual RCW, if you live at “The stop light at corner of 5th & Pike, Seattle WA” then you need to list your residence at the nearest public building to 5th and Pike. In that case it would be the post office at 3rd and Union. Since a street address is not enough when a location has more than one viable address, getting a box there would also be valid.
As to you second point, try talking to some of the homeless downtown occasionally, I know there are several who I’ve talked to who ‘live’ right around 3rd and Pike or 4th and Pike but get their mail at a box in Bellevue. Mostly that is because their families live in Bellevue and they tend to go home for visits a time or two so they maintain a box near where they grew up.
I will say though I would be scratching my head as to why someone would have two boxes.
Personally, I would more object to someone who actually does live at 3rd and Pike voting in a Bellevue election because that is where their family lives.
sgmmac No, stephen is not good at research, he cherry picks, and has several times made a statement that he never said something that was in his own archives posted the day before. The man is fundamentally incapable of telling the truth.
And throw this one in as well from Puddy
Security leaks by John Huang and Ira Sockowitz
How about the Nuns and illegal campaign contribution
Rufus, do you actually read the items you are posting on or do you just open up the latest comments and say something. Bill Clinton’s perjury isnt the topic here, Lori Sotelo’s perjury is right now. Bill Clinton isnt in office.
I know thinking is hard, but please try.
@65 Bill,
I haven’t seen that and I’ve been reading his blog for months and months. As for the cherry picking, that is the partisianship and showing examples, Goldy does that too….. I am not claiming that he is the Messiah or however; you spell it.
Bush says “Win” and Libs say “Cut n Run”. You pick.
Libs still want to raise the white flag and cut and run. But they love the troops so. Nancy Pelosi had a hard time saying it however, I thought she was going to crack all her teeth.
Let’s see. Libs love the troops soooooo much that they never want to put them in harms way and that they should come home and the libs will love them and hug them and give them the thumbs up……… John Kerry will dab the tears from his eyes, the one armed gimp Cleland will be rolled out again by the dems to prove they are patriotic and then he will be pushed back into the cloak room where Kerry will again toss a coat on him.
Then the libs will love them so much that they will make sure there is no need for such a large well trained force because the UN will be taking care of all the problems in the world. Like they did in the congo. You know, when they raped all those young girls…. and like they are doing now in the Sudan, and like they did in Rawanda……. and like they did administrating the oil for food program which, turned out to be Bush’s fault.
Why are libs always on the wrong side of history? They are so busy re-writing history sometimes they have no idea where they are in time.
I AM THINKING OF GETTING MY HOLIDAY TREE THIS WEEK
Go back to May or June, I pointed it out when he did it. Once on this board and once on his (assuming he didnt just delete my comment on his board, he also has a strong aversion to allowing anyone who disagrees with him or shows where he is wrong to speak).
No, its partisanship if he shows examples. When he uses most without ever looking at contradictory data he is cherry picking. My objection is not the finding the data, its that he keeps presenting it in a vacuum and simply assuming that he knows what the rest of the data is. That isn’t good research, its sloppy and dishonest.
Yup, still a cesspool of winger spin and ignorance. Manana, baby.
Not to change the subject, but yesterday on a uSP post Stefan Sharansky proudly drew attention to the fact that he was himself in one of the pictures, big as life! He seemed excited and pleased by this. I noticed, though, that with Stefan’s long nights with voter info., he has apparently abandoned any exercise program he might have had. If you inspect the photo you can see that Stefan is developing a serious case of MAN BOOBS!!!
I asked him about this in the comment section, but the only reply I got was from that idiot, Mr. Cynical. How is Stefan going to intimidate LATTE LIBERALS when he has a disturbing case of FLABBY MAN BOOBS!!! In the interests of helping our conservative buddy over at uSP, I think all you LIBS. should go over and post a comment about his DISTURBING MAN BOOBS!!!
Thank God for Joe Liebermann!
CBS and ABC failed to mention his Iraq position…NBC gave it a glancing blow. USA Today and other MSM failed to mention it.
Wouldn’t you think the 2000 V-P Candidate and a powerful US Senator supporting our efforts in Iraq deserves a little ink??
Hi Norm!
I read this in the Seattle Times today:
…
Goldy, I agree the only way for decent moderate Republicans to take back the party will be through courage and standing up to the right wing bastards. The party is in for a richly earned blood bath and will be a minority party for a long time, but the moderates will have a chance in the long run if they show courage now. I would have hoped for better from Maleng.
I AM THINKING OF GETTING MY HOLIDAY TREE THIS WEEK -Comment by Joe— 11/30/05 @ 8:34 pm
WHICH holiday would that be, exactly? Easter? Memorial Day?
Personally, I buy CHRISTmas presents and put up CHRISTmas lights and decorate a CHRISTmas tree in December.
If you’re thing is fancy trees for Easter, go for it.
RUFUS @ 66, You keep printing only half the bullshit. You can spin until O’Rielly gives you a job, but the facts remain even if you choose to ignore them:
The Vindication of the Clinton Administration
Clinton administration officials indicted and/or convicted in connection with Whitewater: 0
Clinton administration officials indicted and/or convicted in connection with Travel Office allegations: 0
Clinton administration officials indicted and/or convicted in connection with alleged abuse of FBI files: 0
Clinton administration officials indicted and/of convicted in connection with Lewinsky matter: 0
Clinton administration officials indicted and/or convicted in connection with the Independent Counsel investigation of Interior Secretary Bruce Babbit: 0
Clinton administration officials indicted and/or convicted in connection with the Independent Counsel investigation of Labor Secretary Alexis Herman: 0
Clinton administration officials indicted and/or convicted in connection with the Independent Counsel investigation of Americorps director Eli Siegal: 0
Clinton administration officials indicted and/or convicted in connection with the Independent Counsel investigation of Commerce Secretary Ron Brown: 0 (Investigation abandoned upon Brown’s death in nations service)
Clinton Administration officials convicted in connection with the Independent Counsel investigation of Agriculture Secretary Michael Espy: 0
(Espy acquitted of all charges. Judge sharply rebukes Independent Counsel Donald Smaltz for bringing case in the first place.)
Other: HUD Secretary Henry Cisneros, pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor for misstating to the F.B.I. the amount of money he gave his girlfriend.
The Corruption in the Reagan administration:
Reagan administration era convictions in the Iran-contra scandal: 14 (two overturned on appeal)
Reagan officials convicted for illegal lobbying: 2 (Lyn Nofziger, White House political director, convicted to 30 days and $30,000 fine, overturned on appeal; Michael Deaver, White House deputy chief of staff, convicted and $100,000, given probation.)
Reagan officials convicted in Housing and Urban Development department scandal: 16
Total Reagan era convictions: 32
80.)
The Holiday season should bring us together. There has been a lot of blood shed for each and all of us to freely celebrate the Holiday season as we see fit. Celebrate your Christmas but respect others.
ASS @ 80,
Still haven’t figured out the italics tags, I see. Stupid ASS.
After “Prosecutor” Maleng’s utter abdication of his titular duty, do we have any recourse to the courts? Can an ordinary citizen, or group of them, petition a judge to empanel a grand jury? In addition to issuing the dozens of felony indictments that Ms. Sotelo has earned, a grand jury could also perform discovery, i.e. subpoena KCGOP’s internal records and discover if its officials had entered into a conspiracy to commit widespead perjury. An organized attempt to disenfranchise voters may also run afoul of the federal voting-rights acts, and thus leave the criminal(s) at KCGOP liable for prosecution on the federal level. (The P-I noted that the GOP has done exactly this in other ways, in other states.) We know that Mr. Vance has pled rank incompetence, and blamed interns, for the enormous quantity of ‘mistakes’, but we have no need to accept his answers as fact.
Can’t take it when it the republicans say lockstep no to Mr Sims eh. Ha I feel soooo sorry for Ron Sims, he has no control on this one. He is acting like the spoiled rotten child we all know he is…
All the way home today I listened to Joe Lieberman, a democrat I have learned to greatly respect over time, on Shawn Hannity’s program! Hillary Clinton who I rarely admire, but do on her stand on Iraq, both have it right on the 52 million people who now have their freedom in Iraq and Afganistan due to the current direction of our president.
You don’t hear the stories from Iraq because you are not listening to the people in Iraq. And the soldiers returning from Iraq.
All the time your leader’s Dean, Kerry, moveon.org, shefullof crap and Gore are flapping their losing gums in the wind.
Better decide who is leading your party pretty soon, the ship seems to be heading two directions at one time.
At least we know where the hell we are going! And we are going to finish the job!
Dean Logan Disenfranchised Hundreds of Voters by Losing Their Signature Cards
Dean Logan complains about Lori Sotelo submitting 178 voter challenges in error and then withdrawing them. His boss, Ron Sims, complains that Ms. Sotelo has somehow “disenfranchised” these voters (completely false, since the erroneous challenges were withdrawn), and wants Ms. Sotelo prosecuted for perjury!
In truth, Dean Logan and Ron Sims are responsible for making it IMPOSSIBLE for the votes of several hundred absentee voters from EVER being counted. This is because Logan misplaced these folks’ voter registration applications and doesn’t have their signature cards on file. Logan mails all of these people absentee ballots for every election, but their votes NEVER get counted because Logan doesn’t have any signature cards on file to verify the signatures on these ballots.
In the September 20, 2005 primary election, 91 of these absentee voters returned their ballots, but didn’t have their votes counted because Dean Logan misplaced their signature cards (see Line 4h, “No Signature on File”):
http://soundpolitics.com/MailB.....rimary.pdf
In the November 8, 2005 general election, 167 of these absentee voters returned their ballots, but didn’t have their votes counted because Dean Logan misplaced their signature records (see Line 3c8, “No Signature on File”):
http://www.soundpolitics.com/M.....rt2005.pdf
Since only 41.65% of the absentee ballots were returned back to King County Elections in September 2005, and only 64.37% were returned in November 2005, there are probably at least 250 to 300 King County absentee voters whose signature cards have been misfiled by Logan and will NEVER have their votes counted in ANY election.
WHY DID DEAN LOGAN EVEN BOTHER SENDING OUT HUNDREDS OF ABSENTEE BALLOTS TO THESE VOTERS, WHEN HE KNEW THEIR VOTES WOULD NOT BE COUNTED BECAUSE HE HAD LOST THEIR SIGNATURE CARDS?
At the very minimum, Dean Logan could have had the common decency to enclose a personalized letter to each and every one of these misplaced signature card absentee voters, apologizing for losing their signature cards, enclosing a blank voter registration form, and telling them they needed to sign this form and return it, otherwise their votes would not be counted. Along with a free business reply permit return envelope, so that these voters would not have to pay any extra postage to return new voter registration signature forms.
With all the hypocritical partisan blabber that Dean Logan and Ron Sims have made about Ms. Sotelo’s attempts to correct the voter registration rolls, they should have gone the extra mile (literally) to make sure these people were able to have their votes counted.
Dean Logan and Ron Sims could have personally taken three hours every evening after normal working hours and visited all 250 to 300 voters whose signature cards have been misplaced. If each of them could have gotten just six voter signatures a piece each evening(allowing 30 whole minutes per voter — maybe they could have added a campaign spiel as well), then this task could have been accomplished in just four to five weeks, without having to work on Saturday or Sunday.
This idea is not ridiculous. Dean Logan and Ron Sims OWE the public the duty to make sure that all qualified and duly registered voters are eligible to vote AND have their ballots counted. They talk the talk, and they need to walk the walk. In any event, King County taxpayers pay them a LOT of money — $123,404.16 to Dean Logan in 2004 and $160,489.68 to Ron Sims in 2004 — and it is about time they started doing SOMETHING to earn it.
http://lbloom.net/xking04.html
In the alternative, Ron Sims could stop grandstanding with his frivolous requests to have Ms. Sotelo prosecuted for perjury, and do something effective to make sure that disenfranchised voters are allowed to have their ballots counted — FIRE DEAN LOGAN AND HIRE SOMEONE COMPETENT!
“Happy Holidays” from Laura Bush? When will that stupid bitch’s War on CHRISTmas end?
Fuckin’ atheist whore. Where’s that blotchy warrior for truth, Bill O’Reilly when you need him?
Amen Richard Pope!
And Merry Christmas to you and yours
Goldy:
I can respect you as a fierce partisan. But you don’t earn respect for blind partisanship.
Either a voter is properly registered as set forth in the RCW or they are not. It matters not why, and motivations are of no account. It is a simple yes/no issue.
Defending the drop-box voter, the dead voter, and all the other documented failings in King County is not dedicated partisan defense. Rather, it is yet another example of pandering to law breakers. King County is getting picked on because they chose to be the last to report and chose to report only enough votes to alter the outcome a teeny bit. Fire Dean Logan and get someone from Chicago. They will report last and do so by an overwhelming margin. Same result, but a lot more credible. Perhaps honest or dishonest, but a lot more credible, especially to reporters loath to look deeper than the news release.
The earlier comments on the legal advice are spot-on. For KCE the advice has to be how to avoid complying with the RCW by citing the RCW.
You clearly hate Stephan and Sound Politics. He says error, so you are emotionally compelled to say OK.
At some point some adult must stand up and say there are clear violations of the simple standards set forth in the RCW. Sam Reed would not do it. Norm Maleng has now been forced into it.
Is it the position of the Democratic Party that everyone and anyone can vote anywhere and everywhere they please? That is what your post advocates. If widespread voter error (we dare not call it anything else) is always inadvertent and usually due to ignorance, and therefore excusable, is this a new standard for the balance of the RCW?
You might give some consideration to your integrity, and the damage your universal free pass on elections law is doing to it. The law is the law is the law. Don’t like it, change it, but until that comply.
For that matter Merry Christmas to all of you! Even Belltowner
Ba Humbug Scrooge
AIN’T OUTSOURCING WUNNERFUL?!
If we could get rid of overpaid union workers, we would live in Republican nirvana! Alaska Airlines did just that, and the results are in:
” … safety and security problems at Alaska increased after the airline fired all its baggage handlers and outsourced the work … problems on the tarmac rose 300 percent.”
The direct benefits of outsourcing include:
“More theft from checked baggage. More injuries to workers. More vehicle accidents. And a rash of aircraft damage caused by ramp workers.
“Alaska had a total of 17 ramp problems in 2003, 15 in 2004. But that number jumped to 72 in the first nine months of this year.”
http://www.king5.com/localnews.....ed4a4.html
Yep, in the Republican’s race-to-the-bottom world of replacing American labor earning family wages with privatized, outsourced, non-union, foreign labor, competence isn’t necessary and Cheap Labor rules!
Humph. You get what you pay for.
Results were similar when King County GOP outsourced cleaning the county’s voter registration rolls to a bunch of unpaid interns.
Humph. You get what you paid for.
You know, reading the troll comments on this thread, it never ceases to amaze me …
A) how willing rightwingers are to sacrifice OPC* for democracy in foreign lands,
and,
B) how hard rightwingers work to keep American citizens from voting in our own land.
* OPC = other people’s children
I have updated the post to provide a link to an editorial in Thursday’s Seattle P-I that basically agrees with what I wrote.
Wabbit @ 94
No, the results weren’t the least bit similar.
The King County GOP filed 178 erroneous challenges against voters registered at normal residential addresses because their interns screwed up by matching only the street name and number of mailbox and storage places around the entire state, without bothering to check the city and zip code or to visually inspect the address first.
Lori Sotelo withdrew all of these challenges. Not a single one of these voters was disenfranchised by the King County GOP’s mistakes.
Dean Logan has misplaced the voter registration applications of somewhere around 250 to 300 absentee voters. As a result, these people do not have a signature card on file. When they send it their absentee ballots, they never get counted because there is no signature card on file to compare the signature on their absentee ballot envelopes with.
Dean Logan’s INCOMPETENCE disenfranchised 91 of these absentee ballot voters in the September 20, 2005 primary election and 167 of these absentee ballot voters in the November 8, 2005 general election.
How can you say the “results were similar”?
Wabbit @ 94
I tell you what “results were similar” outcome that I would like to see.
Dean Logan should resign his position as King County Director of Records and Elections for his incompetence in disenfranchising 258 absentee voters in the recent primary and general elections.
In turn, Lori Sotelo would resign her position as Vice-Chair of the King County GOP for her incompetence in filing 178 challenges of voters registered at valid residence addresses by not properly checking whether or not these were mailbox or storage place.
Granted, Lori Sotelo’s incompetence did not cost anyone their right to vote, while Dean Logan’s incompetence disenfranchised 258 voters.
And further granted, Lori Sotelo admitted her mistakes and apologized to all the voters affected, while Dean Logan has not done a damned thing about his mistakes.
But the results would be similar enough to make me happy :)
“Happy Holidays” from Laura Bush? When will that stupid bitch’s War on CHRISTmas end? -Comment by Belltowner— 11/30/05 @ 11:16 pm
Fuckin’ atheist whore. Where’s that blotchy warrior for truth, Bill O’Reilly when you need him? -Comment by Belltowner— 11/30/05 @ 11:17 pm
Ah more of that oh so tolerant, non-judgemental, high minded thinking from our elite liberal friends.
Thank you so much for continuing to show your grace (especially toward the First Lady) and true colors during this happy Christmas season.
Peace be with you too.
@ 100
You offer surrender to the ANTI JESUS hun. Surrender never!
Thank you so much for continuing to show your grace and true colors during this happy Christmas season.
Peace be with you and God bless you… you need it.
Gee Goldy
You mean the PI actually agrees with you on a subject? No that is a first I guess!
@92
They are all thieves, they have been theives for years. Stealing out of baggage has been rampant and widespread for years and years. My baggage was jacked back in the 90’s. Everyone airline carrier was forced to kind of police their act after 9/11, but the losses are in the hundreds of millions every year. 60 minutes has done several stories on it over the years.
Republicans have set the precedent for what is fair in voter challenges and it is our Democratic duty to do the same to them. We need to 1st, get the proper government papers and change them to suit our purposes. Then we should send a gaggle of incompetents out in the field to do half ass verifications. Then we need to find some sucker whose willing to put their mechanical signature on all of them , solemnly swearing as to their PERSONAL knowledge of their accuracy.
Then we need to wait around while Republican factotems PROSECUTE the Dems.
“Why do they call us fascists?” Poor dears!!!!
“I have updated the post to provide a link to an editorial in Thursday’s Seattle P-I that basically agrees with what I wrote.
Comment by Goldy— 11/30/05 @ 11:48 pm”
That don’t impress me much!
We’re neutralizing you, Mr. Cynical. It’s only a matter of time before you’re Mr. Irrelevanr–FULL TIME!!!!
@107
You might well be neutralized by Charter Schools.