Via Daily Kos:
The Quinnipiac University poll found that 60 percent of Americans among both major political parties think raising income taxes on households making more than $250,000 should be a main tenet of the government’s efforts to tame the deficit. More than 70 percent, including a majority of Republicans, say those making more than $1 million should pay more.
Huh.
I know our legislature can’t seem to close the deal on addressing even the current supplemental budget, but with Washington facing a structural revenue deficit as far as the eye can see, this poll sure does give one something to think about.
There’s no point in debating this with our Republican friends who think their share of the tax burden should be zero.
That said, I favor a state high-earners income tax as an intermediate measure, because it would help flatten the regressivity of Washington’s tax system until long-term reform can be accomplished. There’s simply no excuse for continuing with the present system one day longer, which taxes the 20% most affluent households only 3% of their income versus the 20% lowest income households which pay 17%.
At the federal level, raising taxes on the rich is trickier from a policy point of view. Higher nominal rates may prove counterproductive to revenue collection by encouraging more evasion and sheltering. Nor can you get enough from the rich to solve the mismatch between revenue and spending, because there simply aren’t enough rich people available to fill that hole.
That said, I think those who reap billions through misconduct — I’m talking about the bankers and Wall Street barons who profited enormously while bringing Main Street low — should be brought under forfeiture laws similar to those we apply to petty drug users. They should not be allowed to keep stolen money simply because they stole a billion dollars instead of a loaf of bread.
Then, in order to effect such taxes, first the loopholes need to be closed.
Karl Marx:
From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs.
– Norman Thomas
Tax campaign contributions. Tax the PACs too. And make it a progressive tax. The more you give (total) the higher the tax rate. Make it harder for rich people to buy elections.
Tax the hell out of contributions coming in from outside the state. And especially tax the hell out of any contributions from foreign owned companies/corporations and non US citizens.
Class Warfare sounds good…if you have no money and no ambition.
However, it will destroy this country.
The consequences will be less investment of capital, less risk, less jobs…and a spiral that will hurt the folks Oba-Mao is promising to help….making the majority dependent on the government for sustinance.
Class warfare is going on. The rich are getting richer at the expense of our vanishing middle class. Investment dollars are leaving the country and our jobs with them. And it is destroying the country. Why should we not fight back?
The top 25 hedge fund managers made 25 billion dollars profit last year. And they produced nothing to earn that money. That was 25 billion dollars sucked out of our economy just to make so rich guys even richer. And they pay a lower percentage in taxes than we do.
As long as the rich are trying to buy our elections, why shouldn’t we make them pay for the privilege?
@3 @5,
Wow, so you are saying taxes and especially progressive taxes are class warfare and the same thing as Communism?
Think about it. Only one vote per person.
Yet money does influence voting. And the rich are more than willing to take advantage of this. Kind of like 1984. Everyone is equal, but some are more equal than others.
Taxes could go a long way toward fixing this imbalance and at the same time add revenue to the state’s coffers.
9. Chris Stefan spews:
I’m quoting Karl Marx–
From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs
You be the judge.
What’s the difference??
Cnykkklown quotes Marx: “…after labor has become not only a means of life but life’s prime want.”
Robespierre would indeed be proud of today’s current crop of Paragons of Virtue who proudly advocate Terror (“you’re fired!”) as the most equitable and just way of distributing society’s economic rewards. That KKKlowns like Kkklynical claim to worship “hard work” yet decry what Marx wrote above is indeed irony rich.
@11
So taxes==communism as far as you’re concerned. Wow, you really would rather live in Somalia wouldn’t you. Except, of course, the roads don’t get repaired and anyone with money has to hand some of it over to the local warlords and gangs.
Stupid Credulous Hacks Alert…
Slightly OT but it is about taxing the rich.
From CNN this morning:
Higher investment taxes threaten stock rally ( http://money.cnn.com/2010/04/0...../index.htm )
“Between the new Medicare tax on investment income and a rise in capital gains and dividend taxes, investors will face higher costs. But the overall effect on stock returns is not as cut and dry.”
So, your headline is an absolut. Higher taxes WILL hurt the market, but the actual story contradicts? (“not cut and dry.” BTW, the phrase is cut and DRIED. If it’s cut, and hung out to dry, there is still variability of outcome. If it’s DRIED, you have a finished product AKA a conclusion. One of my linguistic pet peeves along the lines of “I could care less.”)
“In fact, markets have been known to thrive in a higher investment tax rate environment. From 1986 until 1997, when the top capital gains tax rate was at 28%, the Dow gained in all but one year, with average returns of 15%.”
In fact, we have empirical evidence that our headline is totally bullshit. Over a ten year period with investment taxes HIGHER than the proposed hike, our headline conclusion is proven WRONG.
“The tax applies to roughly 1 million individuals who earn over $200,000 and 4 million couples who rake in more than $250,000.
While this group makes up just 2% of the population, it’s a far bigger driver of market activity than the other 98%.”
But this group, by and large, doesn’t actually have jobs. They earn a living moving little pieces of paper around and employ a few money managers to assist. So it’s not like they’re going to go out and get a job. That would take actual labor. Easier to make a few phone calls, maybe log onto the Smith Barney account on line and head out to play a little golf. Even if it is at a slightly lower rate of return.
“”Anytime you raise taxes, you provide some incentive to sell the underlying stocks, but I don’t think these will have a big impact,” said Douglas Elliott, fellow at the Brookings Institute and a former investment banker at JPMorgan Chase.”
For Christ sake!!! Even your expert quoted told you your headline was Bullshit!
But those who read only headlines are convinced that raising taxes will depress the market. Well done CNN!
No one need worry or fret about a high earner tax in this state…clearly. This legislature will continue to do what every other one has done for decades and that is cobble together stupidly constructed, complex taxes that patch problems. Then when the real shit hits the fan, like now, become paralyzed and do nothing. Extend the time in doing nothing and hope no one remembers next election.
As for class warfare, Cynical, that already happens with fuckheads like the BIAW and other toads who claim that liquor store clerks and garbage collectors make $100,000 a year in total compensation. The idea is to put everyone else in a blind rage against people based on the unabashed lies of people who bring you shoddy houses.
The United Sates was founded on the principal that ALL men (and women) are created equal… Wealth being held by just a few creates an imbalance of power. Our founding fathers abhorred the idea of a monarchy or royalty, yet extreme wealth essentially creates the same thing.
The balance for which we always struggling is how do you limit that power from growing to be too much. At what point does an entity cross the line as to having to much power in a democratic society?
The rich in this country, for the most part, got their wealth because we are a free and open democracy with a strong capitalist tradition.
To have them pay a little more because they can easily absorb the cost is not asking too much.
But there is another argument here that I think some of the critics fail to understand. It’s one thing to regurgitate Marx, but to have a true understanding of the definitions of Socialism and Communism you would know that we aren’t even close as society to approaching either of those two forms of government. With over of two hundred years of a stable democracy under our belts I don’t think we are in any immediate danger. To think otherwise is to discredit what the founding fathers gave us in creating this unique country.
As long as money = speech, you’re gonna’ have a difficult time taxing political contributions.
Roger has the right idea: Confiscate the money / property just like any other organized crime.
Bring on RICO and confiscate!
Since when does pointing out the widening income gap in the US constitute “class warfare”? And more importantly, why aren’t the policies that lead to this considered “class warfare”? Am I living in some sort of bizzaro world?
@18
No, you’re living in a world where people in upper income brackets have become accustomed to paying LESS than their parents. To them, it is their GOD GIVEN RIGHT to push the tax burden away from themselves and corporations and onto what used to be the middle class.
@18
Conservative and Republican framing of the issues does seem like Bizzaro World much of the time.
you mean the majority of people favor someone else paying more taxes?
fuck, can the more obvious be over-stated?
gee, whats next goldy? A study showing snowboarders prefer snow over rain?
@16 Agreed, “reguritating Marx” is more than a trifle lame. However, it’s sheer brillance compared to channelling Goebbels.
@18 Yes.
Did you all see this Ferry Employee skam on King5??
http://www.king5.com/video/fea.....42667.html
“skam”
You really are a weird one.
Just maybe, the majority of people would like to see equity here. That would mean, yes, the rich would pay more.
What do you expect from Mr. Psycho?
@26…equality to me means everyone pays either the same amount or the same percentage.
anything other than that, is by definition, unequal.
There you have it, there you go we all agree.
The answer then is to compute what the people at the bottom end of the economic scale pay as a percentage of their income towards any and all taxes (income tax, sales tax, 911 fees on their phone bills, property taxes, excise taxes etc), tolls, and fees levied by the government and then tax everyone else at the same rate.
That would also include Social Secrity Tax all year long like the bottom end of the ecnomic scale pony up 52 weeks out of the year. Just to be super equal, right Maxie pad?
I like it.
@29..or an even simpler way would be to eliminate ALL taxes and replace them with a single tax that covers everything. its simple and there are no loopholes.
hey clynical —
you didn’t answer your quiz. you say “Class Warfare sounds good…if you have no money and no ambition.
However, it will destroy this country.
The consequences will be less investment of capital, less risk, less jobs…and a spiral that will hurt the folks Oba-Mao is promising to help….”
but in fact Canada which you call socialist now has per capita gdp equal to USA, coming up and up and up over the last few decades.
and, by taxing ourselves to pay for the marshall plan, that raised incomes in western europe right? when they were destitute after a war.
and nations like germany and sweden and france and the uk and austria and denmark and norway and such, all have high taxes, and have shown an UPWARD spiral.
your statement is hogwash. pure bullshit. you’re either stupid and ignorant. or a liar.
tell me what nation is it that has the model you would emulate?
Somalia. very low taxes, no government to speak of. that’s your model. your views would have left us in the great depression which would have left us unable to win ww2 so if people had listened to the kind or rot you put out back then, we’d all be speaking german and saluting hitler now.
fortunately roosevelt borrowed and taxed and created full employment and we beat the nazis with making tanks and planes and this set the stage for decades of growth. not a downward spiral as you say. you talk as if we went down from 1932 to 1972. you idiot. it went up!
you also ifnorantly fail to realize that democracy is not a proletarian dictatorship, and having half the econonmy in private hands means it’s only half socialism, as you so ignorantly call it, equating sweden with the soviet union.
really, did you just not ever go to school? where does this great ignorance come from?
When someone says ‘hard work never hurt anyone’, I know that I’m looking at someone who’s never done any hard work.
Then you need to stop staring at yourself in the mirror and get to work!
While the foolish ones (HA blog leftists) scream with glee over taxing the rich, statistics show otherwise. Facts do explode libtardo minds.
You see arschloch, Puddy has to repost facts because libtardos run from them.
Goldy,
Down here in PBC where Theresa LaPore hangs out. Me and the bro-in-law biked down SW 18th to Military Trail and around. Got to see all the nice “gated communities” to keep those peeps out and de rich peeps in. Oh wait a minute… bro-in-law lives in a gated community. Must be the other rich y’all want taxed.
hey puddy buddy, why don’t you post the statistics of national income per capita and state income per capita showing that Canda is now equal to the USA, coming up and up and up over the last few decades despite its — I’d say because of its — socialism? And how france germany sweden etc. are not economic wastelands, in fact, they are not like low-gummint solaia, instead, they are sort of rich. And they all have rich people, too! Then why don’t you post the statistics showing that in the USa it’s the states with higher incoem per capita that have income tax, disproving your theory, or illusion or lie we should say, that an income tax creates bad effects on the economy.
The reason you guys won’t do this is obvious. You’re a bunch of ignorant fools spouting ignorant nonsense and you can’t face the fact you r ignorant.
“Facts do explode libtardo minds” — yes, puddybuddy, that’s why you won’t even talk about how Canada with its socialism and higher taxes is now equal to the USA. You won’t talk about how the low-gummint model of Somalia sucks big time! You won’t talk about how it’s MD and CT and NY and CA and MA and NJ and all the RICHER BETTER OFF STATES WITH BIGGER ECONOMIES per capital that have an INCOME TAX.
You guys are like the little children in the schoolyard sticking tongues out at other people. then when challenged, you squeal and run away like the chickens you are. You won’t debate because you’re afraid of losing, and it’s so clear you lose.
Prove me wrong. Show me the nation with elections and national health care that went down the tubes. Tell me just ONE nation like that.
chicken s….
LMFAO at all the fools trying to equate less govt with somalia….well by that same token, lets compare the tax hungry big govt that the leftist fools want with north korea.
maybe its just me, but I would rather live in somalia than north korea…at least in somalia I can leave the place.
Cutting taxes from 2001 to 2008 worked so well for the economy, why raise taxes?
Can someone translate the gibberish stated in comment #34.
@37…simple minded folks like yourself are free to write the govt bonus check at tax time…why dont you?
the more you tax people, the less they can buy…now how is that supposed to spur the economy.
duh.
@39 – Again, tax cuts worked out so well for the Chimpanzee. We should offer more tax cuts to the rich, they need more money and are the saviors of this Country.