I know some of you thought it was a particularly dry piece of satire, but I really am debating conservative kingpin Grover Norquist tonight at an Outback Steakhouse. If you’re interested in cheering me on, you can call the folks at the Evergreen Freedom Foundation (360.956.3482), and see if they still have room.
Anyway, I’m spending the rest of the afternoon prepping for the debate, reading up on Norquist’s close connections to Jack Abramoff’s web of corruption, so don’t expect much posting from me the rest of the day. Likewise, I’m taking the train down to Vancouver tomorrow afternoon ahead of a Wednesday morning speech before the Washington Education Association, so again, expect light posting from me over the next couple days.
Goldy,
Based on your past history with “facts” and “gotcha” politics, let me offer some advice:
Don’t ask Grover if it is true that Cookie Monster switched to veggies. OK?
[Goldy tears up his debate notes in frustration]
Goldy: All the best. Hope someone captures it and makes it available on podcast.
Goldy,
Tell Grover that we plan to shrink the GOP to the size of a baby and drown it in a bathtub.
Most important: Always, always, attack the assumptions–whether stated or hidden.
Speaking before the WEA? Congrats. What’s the topic?
My LD meets tonight…otherwise I’d be there to root for ya’.
Good Luck
I’ll give credit where it’s due. That was a good one, Mark. Ironic that Norquist shares a name with a Muppet, although he’s more Jim Henson than pile of yarn, i.e. the one with his arm up the President’s ass…….
(with all apologies to Henson)
Go get ’em Goldy – Grover is knee deep in Abramoff corruption. also, remember to ask Grover about record budget deficits and earmarks by republicans. Also, quiz him on social security privatization, tax breaks for the rich and McSame’s tax plans to keep giving tax breaks to the rich without paying for them.
It’s probably reasonable to expect Norquist to behave like a more soft-spoken version of Limbaugh or O’Reilly: If he can’t dazzle you with his brilliance, he’ll try to drown you in lies. That’s pretty hard to work against, because sitting there in front of a crowd you’ll be hard-pressed to argue against some red herring he pulls out of his ass that you’ve never heard of because it’s a complete fabrication. Hopefully if he resorts to this he’ll get so carried away he’ll start telling such obvious whoppers that he’ll cut his own throat.
This is fucking hilarious. Even Hussein’s supporters can’t name a single accomplishment.
Well, let’s keep it on a philosophical level rather than personal attacks – although comparing Republican statements when compared to their activities is certainly fair game.
His organization, Americans for Tax Reform, states it’s primary mission:
Seems to be a lot of ammo in that little statement. Is taxation the primary method of control? It seems to me that the use of force is the primary method of control. Without it, the power to tax is unenforceable. And the Bush administration has shown it’s willingness to use force in a variety of ways, apart from taxation, to intrude upon American life in ways never imagined until the current administration.
So why not attack the basis of his thesis, that protection against taxation is the most important value of liberty to be protected? Aren’t other values, such as the ones specifically mentioned in the Bill of Rights, more important? How does protection against the power to tax stand against a government willing to detain without trial, deny the right of habeous corpus, warrentless wiretapping, etc.???
And challenge the assumption that you could cut taxes in half (his immediate goal) in order to reduce the size of government by half. Force him to lay out specifics of what half of the federal budge he would discontinue – Defense? Medicare & Medicaid? Social Security? Homeland Security? FEMA?
Force him to defend the Bush record – every aspect of it. He will try to get around it by telling apocriphyl stories of government waste, but don’t let him get away with it.
Gee, I have to confess I didn’t know much before I started reading. He compared the estate tax to the Holocaust? There’s a guy with a misplaced sense of priorities.
To get a taste of Norquist’s debating style, you can check out how David Sirota handled him on this 06/12/08 edition of KUOW’s The Conversation.
7;
Pay your debt.
Hmmm, maybe that’s the key. It’s a question of priorities. Norquist’s priorities are that the rich get taxed less than the average working man (reduced tax rates for capital gains), and everything else is subordinate (defense, homeland security, social security, medicare, medicaid, parks & national forests, enforcement of environmental laws, FEMA, etc., etc., etc.
Hey Left Foot -How ’bout it. Can YOU name a single legislative accomplishment of your empty skirt messiah?
Just one. C’mon… just one.
I’m waaaaaaaaaaaaiting….
Loser…
Maybe “the count” can help Obama count all 59 states. hehehehehe
@13: I would have to agree that senators in general are not the most logical presidential candidates (regardless of what party they’re from), and I’ve said before that the fact that most of the candidates this time around from both parties are from the Senate is a sign of weakness within both political parties.
The Democratic party had its farm teams decimated in several consecutive elections, while the Republicans went corrupt and morally bankrupt when left to run all the branches of government, and had many of their leaders and potential leaders indicted, disgraced, or rightfully voted out of office.
Obama’s legislative accomplishments and credentials have been documented, however, but then this doesn’t give you a very compelling story in terms of his executive fitness. I think, like the guy who froze under the TV lights, most of us are not studying these stats closely but have other reasons to support Obama (his performance in the debates, his stance on the issues, his political leadership, style, and so on).
BTW, you’ll notice that I can do a Google search as well as anyone. Took my about 5 seconds.
Now shut the fuck up Mark the Bitch – we know what FlipFlop McCain’s accomplishments are.
1) He helped the VC to avoid torture while in a Nam prison camp during the war, giving aid and comfort to the enemy
2) We know he crashed a very expensive jet
3) We know he left his wife because she was disfigured
4) We know he was involved in the Keating Five scandal
5) We know he has embraced the endorsement of right wing preachers who call the Catholic Church a whore
6) We know he’s flip flopped on every major issue in the campaign between 2000 and 2008
7) We know he has an anger management problem
8) We know he has had an affair with one of the MANY lobbyists he’s literally in bed with
9) We know that Lush Flimbaugh, Ann Coultergiest and many of the other hate-radio right wing chickenhawks have said he’s the worse GOP candidate in decades
10) We know he’s worked hard to seal POW records that might out him as a traitor
Boy you must be proud to have him as your guy!
17
Yeah, but Obama being a liberal,leftist,military dodging commie trumps that whole list. hehehehe
So Al Gore endorsed Obama.
There goes the Obama candidacy.
Laura Bush killed a guy.
@20 On an open stretch of highway. What were the odds? A zillion to one? Sigh! If only George had pissed her off.
@18 I’ve heard from several dependable sources that Senator McCain is a card-carrying commie-fascist. That’s far, far worse than being just a simple commie. Of course, you already knew that.
@18 Is that all you have, name calling?
I am so glad I am not a republican anymore and asociated with the likes of you. And it is n’t even corrrct – the “most liberal” rating is by the National Review and consists of only a few selectively chosen votes. Please have something of subtance – like budget and tax plans. McCain’s plan will cost me more money and break the budget more than Obama’s. Seems to me, McCain is all about corporate welfare and feeding the rich – when did that get to be the republican way? I am sick of the corruption and the ties to coporate America.
23
Substance…you mean like how McCain has never passed and earmark in his entire 20 plus years in the senate and consistently opposes tax hikes and how he is right in his stand on Iraq. What is Obama’s record as a senator… oh wait no ones knows. He hasn’t been one long enough.
Geez, I guess I hit a nerve. I’m still waiting for somebody to name just one thing Hussein the Messiah has accomplished.
is this the best you guys can do? a marxist ideologue who wants to emulate Jimmy Carter?
LMAO…
Who is Hussein the Messiah? President Obama’s accomplishments have been linked to in the thread. As have FlipFlop McCain’s – since you did not dispute or disprove anything I said about JohnBoy, you must agree. Welcome to the truth punk.
In case you missed it Al, Gore endorsed (a bit late Al) Obama.
BYE BYE I MEAN PIPPLE FACE.I HEARD YOUR A CHICKEN SHIT ALL TALK. HOW DID YOUR MEETING GO WITH PUDDY.WHAT YOU WERE A NO SHOW.WHAT A FUCKIN LOSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSER.
@25
Mark The Redneck-Patriot:
Ah, I know Obama hasn’t worked on anything quite as earth shattering as the McCain-Feingold bill or Comprehensive Immigration Reform, but give him time! He’s like, four or five decades younger than his opponent!
Since he’s a marxist ideologue I assume he has a plan to smash the state, nationalize the means of production and place all power in the hands of the proletariat. Please forward me the link to his plan.
@25
You ever going say something good about McCain or Rossi?
See, at some point you have to actually support your guy (or gal) if you want to win an election.
@25 “I’m still waiting for somebody to name just one thing Hussein the Messiah has accomplished.”
He gets under your skin. That’s reason enough, right there, to vote for him. Pay your gambling debt, welsher!
Hey, MTR-P! You know better than that!
What about this??!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-jCBk4IAFM
Stop acting like a Lefty and give Obama the credit he deserves!
Mark the redneck & Jane’s dog, I know the word is out there, in right-wing fantasyland, to regularly troll the progressive blogs and sew mayhem, but once or twice per thread is quite enough. You guys are overdoing it a little.
“20. ByeByeGOP spews:
Laura Bush killed a guy.”
Teddy Kennedy killed a woman, let her drowned & walked.
Barrack Hussein Whatshisname was pals with Wright, Ayers, Rezko and many other crooks & lunatics.
Interesting that none of you Marxist posters can actually name even ONE of Barrack Hussein Whathisnames accomplishments.
Instead, you are forced to attack others.
Typical.
This is the great thing about a change election. The guy with the “most years of experience” learns that it doesn’t matter and doesn’t help him at all, and McCain will get is ass kicked back to Arizona.
Because Obama is offering change and McCain is not, all of this, “What has Obama done?’ bullshit won’t get you guys anywhere, and I’m amused at your stubborn insistence on a losing position.
The FACT is that McCain supports wholeheartedly an extremely unpopular war, which means he will lose. The FACT is that McCain supports Bush’s economic policies, which means he will lose.
What McCain is doing is promising to continue Bush’s policies on the most important issues. On Iraq, taxes, health care, the economy, Iran, and so on, he’s not saying anything that is radically different from Bush’s last State of the Union address. The reason is simple: Bush and McCain’s opinions about public policy are similar because they’re beholden to a similar set of interest groups.
All of that means that McCain will lose, and it has NOTHING to do with any legislation that Barack Obama has or has not introduced into the Congress. Keep it up, tough, guys. It will keep you from thinking about your candidate’s fundamental weaknesses.
Obama’s ahead:
Obama’s also got the support of only 80 percent of Democrats, whereas John McCain has 90 percent of Republicans and John Kerry got 89 percent of Democrats in November 2004. So in principle he could expand his lead by several points purely through base-rallying gestures. I can’t wait.
NAMBLA @ 37
Yawwwwwwnnnnn…
Obama only has 80% of Dems because… Many of the Hillary voters are voting McCain. Try “27% defection rate.”
Check out http://www.PUMA08.com
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25209226/
PU’s finally got a girlfriend.
President Obama leads by six points even in the GOP controlled Rasmussen poll. TERRIBLE news for the already deflated right!
PU Puddydick didn’t show up. Give me your address and I’ll come teach your cum-drunk, baby-raping ass how to type without using the CAPS key you bitch.
34 TRM
Don’t count on it. In 2000, over 50% of McCain’s extremely bitter supporters said (soon after he dropped out) that they’d NEVER vote for Bush, but most of them did.
Let’s look at it this way: there are almost certainly people out there for whom their order of preference is Clinton-McCain-Obama. Some of them are probably women. But McCain is on the wrong side of the issues that Democratic women care about, and they’re not as stupid as you seem to think they are. Very few will vote for him.
But keep implying that they are stupid, because it amuses me and hurts McCain.
Besides which, even without the voters you seem to think are out there switching to McCain, Obama’s kicking McCain’s ass in the polls.
Hey Puddydick and PU – great news! As of today, you two can legally get married down in California. Better pack your bags. Both your wives think it’s time you came out and they both plan to stay with me so get on with it bitches.
Another special moment for the GOP! http://seattletimes.nwsource.c.....ion17.html
I LOVE the republican’s idea of family values – HE HE!
NAMBLA @ 42
1. Are you so dim that you didn’t expect a bump in the polls when Obama became the presumed nominee?
2. Obama should be MUCH farther ahead. I could be wrong, but I believe Dukakis was 30 points ahead of Bush I.
3. It is freakin’ JUNE. Let’s see where your kid is in October.
Poll: Obama Holds Big Lead In Ohio
Barack Obama seems to have a very good start in Ohio as the general election season beings, a new survey from Public Policy Polling (D) suggests. The numbers: Obama 50%, McCain 39%, beyond the ±3.6% margin of error.
45 TRM
Yeah, you just keep repeating that to yourself. You might want to add this one: “This can’t be happening. This can’t be happening!”
So now, “he’s ahead, but he’s not ahead as much as he should be.” And the reason is because the numbers are different from when a Democratic challenger opposed the lesser-known vice president of a popular president twenty years ago, which is so obviously EXACTLY the same as our situation now? Uh-huh. Talk about tortured analogies. And this is what you rely on for comfort?
In November, gas will be $5 per gallon, annual inflation will be in double digits, the pointless and bloody Iraq Occupation will still be going on with John McCain’s blessing, and John McCain will still be so old that he sent shower gifts when my grandparents were born.
Looks good for president Obama.
Ummmm *throat clearing*
Isn’t Virginia one of the states McCain was expected to win? The trend there looks very, very bad for Grampaw.
The new pro-Israel, pro-peace PAC has its first-ever slate of endorsements:
So Darcy is reliably pro-Israel? One way to gut-punch a Republican…
PU: I did show up. bybygoober was afraid he’d meet a real man and scurried away with his tail between his legs. GBS provided the restaurant and the food was tasty!
bybygoober@41: You’s a punk and we all know it!
bybygoober: Steve is looking for a mate. So who’s da man and who’s da sissy? Need plane fare to CA? Maybe Goldy can hold a marriage-a-thon?
Daddy Love have you seen the latest poll where 67% of peeps want oil drilling off the coasts?
Thanks whackos for making it so.
Puddydick failed to show at the Port Orchard Bowling Alley two times. Tony Crago was with me to handle Puddy’s back up but no Puddy. Unless he was sidetracked as usual and went BEHIND the bowling alley to suck sailor dick. That’s where we can usually find him.
I’ll be there again Saturday at 1pm bitch. I’ll have on a shirt that says “Puddy Is A Traitor.” Don’t show up. It’ll go badly for you if you do. You’ll be forced to come face-to-face with the truth. And bitch, you can’t handle the truth!