The Seattle Times op/ed page (of all places) neatly highlights American Liberalism at work, lauding two local government proposals for increased disaster preparedness. [“Levees to lahar, disaster preparation.”]
King County Executive Ron Sims has proposed a new countywide flood-control district that would raise about $335 million ($15 to $30 a year on a $300,000 home) to pay for repairs and extensions to the county’s many levees. Meanwhile, the small town of Orting, which sits on lahar debris in the shadow of Mount Rainier, is proposing a new bridge across the Carbon River at a cost of as much as $12 million, to speed evacuation in the inevitable event of another major mudslide.
As the Times succinctly points out:
We live in a region with the potential of natural disasters that can be exacerbated by inadequate infrastructure. It makes sense to invest in safeguards now instead of paying for widespread destruction later. New Orleans taught us that.
We hear a lot from the right about the sanctity of the free market and the inherent inefficiencies of government, but there are some necessary public investments like education and safety that are simply outside the realm of the free market. No private corporation could make a reasonable return on adequately educating the children of the poor. No financial calculus could justify the private investment of $12 million in saving several hundred school children from a lahar that may be centuries away.
And yet most of us recognize that these are investments that must be made… that spending tax dollars protecting homes and businesses from inevitable floods both saves lives and prevents huge losses to our economy as a whole. Most of us recognize that this is a proper role for government, and thus most of us implicitly accept the basic ideological tenets of modern American Liberalism.
There is certainly a legitimate debate to be had over the proper size and scope of government, but while neo-cons and theo-cons have spent the better part of the past three decades denigrating the word “liberal” and vilifying those who would take its label, all but the most wacked-out, extremist nutjobs (that’s you, Grover Nordquist) accept that government regulation and public investment plays a necessary role in our modern democracy and economy. Indeed, when Alaska Senator Ted Stevens publicly argues the case for his infamous “bridge to nowhere” he appeals to the core principles of Liberalism, however cynically.
Liberalism was our nation’s overwhelmingly dominant political philosophy throughout the period in which America grew into the greatest economic, military and political power in the history of the world. It was Liberalism that guided us out of the Great Depression and through World War II, the Cold War, and the collapse of the Soviet Union. It was Liberalism that desegregated the South, irrigated the desert, and (for better or for worse) built the interstate highway system.
No ideology has all the answers and all can be pushed absurdly to the extreme, so sure, I recognize the need for there to be a balance between our nation’s liberal and conservative impulses. Yet even in the face of a proto-fascist administration that seeks in the name of God and national security to break the shackles of our Constitution by extending its tentacles into every aspect of our private lives, I remain a steadfast believer in the power of an activist, principled government to better the lives of all its citizens.
That is why despite the inherent inadequacy of political labels, I continue to proudly identify myself as a “liberal.”
Just thought you might want to know.
“Liberalism” is when the Democrat controlled “guvment” raises 500 million in “selected” taxes, takes 400 million in public “overhead” [new “guvment employees would are vastly overpaid and will vote Democrat along with their entire families], and then contracts out the rest to union [Democrat] controlled firms to “Davis Bacon” any and all new projects [Best example: the Kennedy/Tip O’Niel/Kerry Big Dig In Boston]. If the project is not completed, raise taxes, rinse and repeat. hehe, JCH Kennedy
Quote: … there are some necessary public investments like education and safety that are simply outside the realm of the free market …
Gee, so Harvard, Yale and Stanford (private educational institutions, last time I looked) are “outside the realm of the free market”. Thanks for the info.
Well said, Goldy. I’ve got a long post in the works about this and how this very obvious fact is starting to create a rift in the libertarian movement between those who want to live in reality and those who want to continue to believe in ridiculous theories of an all-powerful free market.
A Conservative and a Liberal were walking down the street when they came to a homeless person.
The Conservative gave the homeless person his business card and told him to come to his business for a job. He then took twenty dollars out of his pocket and gave it to the homeless person.
The Liberal was very impressed, and when they came to another homeless person, he decided to help. He walked over to the homeless person and gave him directions to the welfare office. He then reached into the Conservative’s pocket and got out twenty dollars. He kept 15 for administrative fees and gave the homeless person five.
Now you understand the difference between the two.
“That is why despite the inherent inadequacy of political labels, I continue to proudly identify myself as a “liberal.” ”
Well then how come on your talk show you say you are a progressive?
Liberalism: Curable or Terminal?
MarkN @2,
See, that’s the kind of over-simplification that discredits you from the start. Of course I’m talking about public K-12 education, and of course you must have known that. But you just choose to snidely dismiss an entire essay by blockquoting a single line out o context.
That said, I happen to be an Ivy League graduate myself, and while I have great respect for these private institutions, they are heavily subsidized by government in the form of guaranteed student loans and grants as well as hundreds of millions of dollars in government research money.
As much as you may like it to be, things really aren’t all that simple.
Dear Democrats [I Started Turning Conservative]
If we insisted on being called Marilyn Monroe, would that make us a buxom blonde?
One wonders if it will ever occur to anyone on the left that if they want to be known as progressives, the first thing they should do is come up with some progressive ideas.
Liberals are Insane
Too bad we can’t think of a way for the natural disaster to strike at eastern washington. Great way to get rid of a bunch of cowardly chickenhawk traitors.
shoot
Liberals are Insane
Here’s a progressive idea – make every cowardly right wing chickenshit, chickenhawk republican who says he’s for the war in Iraq go fight it or send his kids in his place.
That would be the end of the war RIGHT FUCKNG THIS INSTANT!
I’ll be standing outside the recruiting station in the morning with a sign that says, “All republicans enter here or you don’t support the war in Iraq!”
Liberals are Intellectually Dishonest
How about one condemning the bastard liberals – you know those peace-loving pricks – busy spitting on soldiers and their families at Walter Reed? Got a cute little sign for them?
Liberals are Economically Ignorant
Predictable Liberals
Busy making that sign condemning military spitters, NoLeftBrainandmissinghisLeftNut?
Hey, NoLeftBrainandmissinghisLeftNut, don’t just stand outside the recruiting office… grow that LeftNut and go on in… maybe they’ll give you a cookie.
Seems even the Republican congressmen are upset with Bush’s secret intelligence programs. Rep. Peter Hoekstra, R-Mich., chairman of the House intelligence committee, went public with a complaint that Bush was keeping it completely in the dark on one, possibly more, intelligence (i.e., spying) initiative. It was only after an intelligence staff “whistle-blower” informed Hoekstra about the programs, and the White House was asked about them specifically by code-name, was Congress briefed on the programs.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.c.....tel10.html
Now we don’t know what the programs were about. (Obviously, as they are still under code-name clearance protocols). But aside from the abuse of intelligence functions and procedures which we have already become accustomed to, perhaps this incident should also be filed under the heading of “Ways to tick off even your friends in Congress”.
First, there were the NSA “wire-tapping” of overseas calls involving U.S. residents, and then the perusal U.S. citizen’s banking and telephone records. In those cases the White House sought to protect itself by claiming that Congress had been “informed” of the programs, and presumably consented. But a number of Republican Congressmen were quite upset by this tactic. First, because these were “secret” programs, they couldn’t air their objections well, and were under administration pressure not to do so, under the threat of being labeled as someone who “aids” terrorists. Secondly, it was a bit like the captain of a sinking ship, trying to lash his crew to the mast so that they go down with him.
Rep. Hoekstra, had been in the forefront of the support of the Administration with respect to the earlier spy programs. He had also been openly critical of government whistle-blowers and the media in publicizing those programs, and suggested that stronger laws should be enacted to prosecute them. But now he finds that there is, indeed, a need for such whistle-blowers. He tries to distinguish between those that go through the “appropriate path” (i.e., informing the Congressional intelligence committee), and those that go directly to the media. But then Hoekstra goes to the media and advertises the existence of the programs themselves, (albeit without providing the details).
Now, Hoekstra has been a strong administration supporter. He didn’t need to go to the media to publicize this rift with the administration. Why did he do so? There may be other reasons, but for now I will assume it was the simplest explanation: even while trying to support the Bush administration’s fumbles, the White House cut him off at the knees one too many times. They not only embarrassed him, but they thumbed their nose at his authority. That calls for retaliation, even if you are from the same political party.
But Hoekstra is not interested in committing political suicide. On the contrary, he apparently figures that his future is politics is enhanced by distancing himself from the administration, rather than the other way around. Considering that his comments will certainly amount to a “declaration of war” from Karl Rove for partisan disloyalty, one must wonder how he feels he can survive without the support of Bush or Rove. In other words, what does Hoekstra know, that we don’t?
@16
You got any evidence to back up your allegation that people spit on soldiers and their families at Walter Reed?
The only disrespect I’m aware of toward military families is the right wing religious nutjobs Phelps and his crew picketing military funerals.
4 – Why shouldn’t the conservative offer the job? Even if the homeless person takes the job, he’ll probably still be homeless! But the conservative will have another low-wage worker to exploit. Makes sense to me.
PROUDTOBE . . . STUPID: If you had a rational thought in your so-called brain, you would be able to mount an argument instead of a bunch of ready-made web sites! Ah, these small-minded conservatives will continue to baa-baa till their dying day!
And Goldy, about time I heard to let everybody know we liberals are proud of our politics! We have built the country, sustained a democracy and provided equal opporunity to people. But we realize we have miles to go . . .
We will overcome the conservative obstacles . . . those mindless boulders that impede the progress of a free and just people.
Jacob @5,
I open nearly every hour by proclaiming my liberalism. But I’m also a progressive. The two are neither mutually inclusive nor exclusive.
Progressivism describes my values and goals. Liberalism describes the means by which I act on these values and achieve these goals.
Perhaps other progressives and liberals describe these two “isms” differently, but that is what the words mean to me.
That said, these words are just labels, and if people want to conflate the two, there’s really little harm in that.
ProudAss @nauseum,
Right. So your response to my defense of Liberalism is to simply hurl insults. I guess you really find the word threatening.
My late father told me a story a time or two, when I was young and would complain about my boss, or job conditions, or whatever nit was bothering me about getting my career going.
It was about him leaving Merced, CA in 1932 heading for LA, leaving my mother, then pregnant with my older brother, behind. When he got there, the only job he could get was making wooden shipping crates at $0.10 an hour. Eventually, he got to know some people who bought those boxes and one of them gave him a job on his orange orchard, which included a little cottage that allowed him to return for his wife and baby son.
At some point in his story he would refer to then president Hoover as “that hog-necked bastard” for allowing the economy to get so bad that the family farms could make no money and eventually were lost to Metropolitan Life, who was buying up farms for basically nothing.
My family was lifted out of poverty by the policies of the New Deal, and the educational opportunities that were implemented in the forties and fifties all of their three kids to obtain college educations in the state college system.
None of us suffered my father’s disappointment, and none of us could be considered poor, but we know that the lives we have weren’t the result of giving in to the hog necked bastards.
Liberals At Work!! Now Here’s How Liberal democrats Make Money!!! NEW YORK — A state legislator was caught on videotape demanding that a developer build her a $500,000 dream home in exchange for using her influence to steer a city-owned vacant lot into his hands, authorities said Monday. Assemblywoman Diane Gordon was released without bail after being arraigned on bribery, official misconduct and other charges, prosecutors said. If convicted, she faces a maximum sentence of 5 to 15 years behind bars.
Let’s see … headline and lead paragraph, no mention of party affiliation — must be a Democrat.
Third paragraph finally states she’s a Brooklyn Democrat.
Ms. Gordon only wanted to get an advance on her reparations.
RPKKK @ 28: There are corrupt people in both parties. . . do you really want to see the litany on your side? Hmmmmm?
The real entity to blame for the Depression was the Federal Reserve. If they’d been doing their job, the recession would have been avoided.
Oh, simple minds come up with simple answers. . .
ASS is definitely insane.
By the way ASS have your kids signed up for Iraq or do they have “other priorities”?
Thank God for Ronald Reagan.
That’s what every citizen of Japan, Taiwan, Hawaii, Seattle — and Vancouver — should be whispering after North Korea’s launch of several nuclear-capable missiles last week.
It was Reagan who, in 1983, proposed a shield against such missiles. “I call upon the scientific community who gave us nuclear weapons to turn their great talents to the cause of mankind and world peace: To give us the means of rendering these nuclear weapons impotent and obsolete,” he said.
The Great Depression was caused by a drop in trade that resulted from collapsing commodity prices, coupled with a big drop in U.S. consumer spending, a backlash to the practice of repossession of installment financed goods upon the first missed payment.
My “kids” are waiting to follow Chelsea…woof woof
RPKKK – Bush has had six years to get that shield in place so where is it?
The Ray-Gun Initiative
Also called “Star Wars”, SDI, the Strategic Defense Initiative, the Upholster and …
Hogwash.
From an article by Ted Nelson
The main reason computer people should take an interest in this is simple. Only we know how funny the thing really is:
All of the software has to work perfectly together, the first timet of the different space weapons talked about would really be more effective against targets on the ground than against fast-moving rockets. Think of it, oncoming missile speed: say 15,000 MPH, rising intercept missile speed, maybe 10,000 MPH.
How’s your tennis?
Can you hit a tennis ball fired out of a cannon?
In other words, Star Wars is a really great offensive system, as scientific conferences stated at the time.
George Lucas saw it coming:
Death Star
WASHINGTON- An FBI raid on a Louisiana congressman’s Capitol Hill office was legal, a federal judge ruled Monday. Chief U.S. District Judge Thomas F. Hogan said members of Congress are not above the law. He rejected requests from lawmakers and Democratic Rep. William Jefferson to return material seized by the FBI in a May 20-21 search of Jefferson’s office.
Heh heh heh heh heh . . . .William Jefferson, DEMOCRAT, LA!!!!!!!
Harry Tuttle, I want YOU to say, “Thank God for Ronald Reagan.”
That’s what every citizen of Japan, Taiwan, Hawaii, Seattle – and Vancouver – should be whispering after North Korea’s launch of several nuclear-capable missiles last week.
It was Reagan who, in 1983, proposed a shield against such missiles. “I call upon the scientific community who gave us nuclear weapons to turn their great talents to the cause of mankind and world peace: To give us the means of rendering these nuclear weapons impotent and obsolete,” he said.
Here’s a republican who has a great deal in common with Baby Bush. He’s a drunk driver!
“On the legislative Web page of Rep. Dale Swenson, R-Wichita, his occupation is listed as “laid off from Boeing” — a description that surely resonates with many others who’ve seen their lives or those of loved ones tossed about in recent years by the turbulent aerospace manufacturing industry. Swenson’s situation doesn’t justify his alleged drinking and driving, of course, as he acknowledged in a story in Thursday’s Eagle about his Feb. 18 DUI arrest in Wichita. There is no excuse for such behavior. But it is to Swenson’s credit that unlike so many public officials in trouble, he was willing to admit both error and embarrassment.”
Here’s an entire page full of republican heros. The kind the righties look up to no doubt!
http://www.armchairsubversive.com/
Another republican arrested, incicted and charged –18 counts of corruption and racketeering
cnn
CHICAGO, Illinois (AP) — Former Gov. George Ryan, who drew international praise when he commuted the sentences of everyone on Illinois’ death row, was convicted of racketeering and fraud Monday in a corruption scandal that ended his political career.
The former Republican governor faces up to 20 years in prison for the racketeering conspiracy conviction alone, the most serious charge against him in the 22-count indictment. The jury found him guilty of all counts, including fraud, obstructing the Internal Revenue Service and lying to the FBI. Sentencing was set for August 4.
Bush IS leading us — but where?
ATLANTA – Georgia’s attorney general filed an emergency appeal Monday of a court order that blocks the state from enforcing its new voter photo identification law during next week’s primary elections. The new law requires that every voter who casts a ballot in person produce a valid, government-issued photo ID.
Photo I.D. laws are going to be absolutely essential in the years ahead as the Dems push “increased voter fraud” by trying to get more and more illegal aliens to the polls.
39.
Start holding your breath… NOW.
My mother grew up on a farm in Alabama during the Great Depression. Her father died when she was six, so part of the farm was worked by her fourteen-year old brother and the remainder share-cropped.
They had not electricity – not because of personal poverty, but because the local utilities were privately owned, and they were not about to spend money running lines to every farmhouse in the county. If you wanted electricity, you had to go to town, where the homes, stores, and the train station actually had electricity, for which they paid a very high price.
Then FDR introduced the Rural Electrification Program, and the Tennessee Valley Authority. By the time WWII began, her family had electricity at a reasonable price. Moreover, the availability of electricity on cheap land facilitated the construction of large army basis throughout the South, and the building of a large part of the Manhattan Project at Oak Ridge, Tennessee, where the centrifuge reactor required enormous amounts of electricity.
But if we had listened to the Republicans, the federal government should never have been in the electricity business. They fought this program tooth-and-nail. They felt that private utilities were always more profitable and efficient than government ones, and that government should never compete with private utilities. Even if the private utilities were not serving a substantial customer base, they argued that the government should not get involved, because “eventually”, when the demand became strong enough, the private utilities would fill the need at an appropriate price.
Correction: “not” in paragraph 2 is obviously “no”. I wish this program had an edit function!
A Conservative and a Liberal were walking down the street when they came to a homeless person.
The Conservative told the homeless person it was her own fault.
The Liberal walked over to the homeless person and gave her directions to a local health clinic serving low income and at-risk populations. The liberal found the homeless person subsidized housing that she could afford to live in with her kids.
But the next day the Conservatives closed the clinics, cut off housing subsidies, and doubled the homeless population almost overnight.
Now you understand the difference between the two.
The GOPs preach free market but they operate quite differently.
They conduct business more like a communist mafia.
The businesses and politicians that claim to support the free market are really in the business of stuffing as many of our tax dollars into their pockets as possible; no bid contracts, no oversight, no performance reviews, bonuses given for non compliance, nonsensical projects etc.
Established business buys a legislator or two on the right committee and for a million or two gets tax breaks and inconvenient rules struck down netting them billions and dumping the cost of their doing business on tax payers.
Some of these businesses are more Enron fronts than anything you and I would consider a business. They are often run by inexperienced cronies and they deliver next to nothing useful.
For instance the US is one of leaders in IT. Much of the hacked personal information was the result of bad software purchased from right wing cronies and crooked government contractors like SAIC. Our govenment has spent billions on crap software that has had to be thrown out and has put our security and privacy at risk.
These non competitive businesses cheat,lie and steal and congress does nothing.
In return, the congressmen and women they own get generous donations, gifts, and percs, often laundered through phoney charities or interest groups that enables them to stay in power indefinitely.
The last thing these free market enthusiasts are interested in is developing a real business plan and defending it from competition.
As we have seen, to our sorrow, these people are very comfortable with big government as long as they get pocket the proceeds and don’t have to clean up their own messes.
By law, taxes can only be collected to deliver goods and services that serve the public. There is no need to defend the idea of the common good; it’s codified into law.
There is a need to put an end to the illegality and corruption in congress and local government. There is need to heavily penalize businesses that indulge in this sort of non competitive behavior and who steal from tax payers.
Public financing and wrenching the broken election system out of the hands of private industry, crooks and incompetents are the ways to address this deplorable mess.
resetnow.blogspot.com
DaddyLove@47: *applause*
There’s nothing new about “Star Wars”. It’s simply a follow-on to the anti-ballistic missle program that’s been going on since the fifties, which has provided a golden opportunity for scientists to fiddle with some expensive toys (not entirely a bad thing) and a giant funnel for money into the coffers contracting companies, who in turn line the pockets of the politicians who keep funding this stuff.
A friend of mine worked for a couple of years on Kwajalein. The entire island was full of the remains of several generations of hardware, one of the more amusing of which was a huge radar reflector that was serving as the backstop net for a golf driving range.
At one time during the Reagan years, the item in vogue for space defense fantasies was chemical lasers. Experiments were conducted that demonstrated that all kinds of substances would emit laser light when appropriately excited with the right kind of radiation. One of them was Scotch whiskey.
What’s this I hear about Texas opening up a lobbying office in Washington, D.C.? The idea of the office is to make sure Texas’ interest are heard in the Capital. The office has already used taxpayer funds to retain lobbying firms for that purpose.
But isn’t that what the elected representatives in Congress are supposed to be doing already? Why would any state need a lobbying office in the capital?
Perhaps the key is to “follow the money”, as Deep Throat said to Woodward regarding Watergate. Could this just be another play on the DeLay shell game, by laundering money through other entitities to use it in a manner which would otherwise be clearly prohibited?
For example: if Texas uses taxpayer funds to finance the office, then the office hires lobbying firms, which then makes donations to political campaigns (as lobbyists tend to do), then the result is you have taxpayer money being used to finance carefully identified political campaigns!
Imaginative, I’ll give them credit for that.
(the link to source is lost, I’m trying to find a new link, I’ll post it when I do).
Public financing and wrenching the broken election system out of the hands of private industry, crooks and incompetents are the ways to address this deplorable mess.
resetnow.blogspot.com
Commentby Carol Davidek-Waller— 7/10/06@ 3:01 pm
Git ‘er done! Let’s make ever’thing run like the post office!
Much better than it operating like my cable company, IMHO.
Okay, found a couple of alternate links regarding the Texas lobbying office in Washington, D.C. (my original source seems to be gone):
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.c.....007478.php
http://www.statesman.com/
Also, it appears that Texas is not alone in spending money on lobbying offices in the Capital. Before 2003, Texas had an office staffed by several state employees, but spent no money on Lobbyists.
http://www.capitaleye.org/stat......10.03.asp
But after 2003 Texas changed course, reducing its staff of state employees and hiring lobbyists instead. Those lobbyists included those with close connections to Abramohof and DeLay himself.
I’m trying to figure out why, when people move to places that present a danger, that we as tax payers need to pay the cost of saving them.
If you want to live in the shadow of a volcano, you need to either be willing to pay for the necessary infrastructure to ensure safe excape, or maybe not live there.
Everyone got all upset about the bridge to nowhere in Alaska. I’m not sure that this is much different, except it is for the children’s safety. Gee – send your kids to a different school!
I have more sympathy with the cost of levees. They are part of the infrastructure and contribute to economic activity in the area.
JS at 58:
The problem is that there is danger wherever you go.
Both coasts are subject to hurricanes and storms of one degree or another, as well as tidal waves caused by far-off earthquakes. Yet most of our population is located along the coastline. Do we tell everyone to pack up and move inland about 50 miles or so, just to be safe, and abandon all the already-constructed infrastructure which exists there?
While we are at it, perhaps those living north of the Mason-Dixon line should move south of it, because of all the government resources wasted in plowing snow from roads throughout the winter!
And moving into the interior of the U.S isn’t necessarily the answer, either. The entire Missouri, Ohio, Mississipi, and Tennesee river valleys are subject to considerable flooding from time-to-time. And don’t forget the earthquakes (the Mississipi sits along a rather substantial fault line, and about 150 years ago an earthquake near Memphis was felt in Washington, D.C. and altered the course of the river).
And the central southern/central U.S. is also “Tornado Alley”, so putting your mobile home there is bound to attract one sooner or later.
I guess that leaves the desert Southwest, but where are we going to find the water for all those people, and the electricity to air condition their homes? As it is, Phoenix and other cities of the southwest are reporting problems managing the resources for the populations they already have.
There was a gas explosion in New York City today!
Was Limbaugh, Sharkansky or any of our wingnut trolls over there today?
Thanks rhp6033! I don’t have all the info to respond to the nuts on this blog but my common sense tells me that we just need to do the best we can to take care of everybody. I love that I am liberal!
BTW, Janet, unless you, like Mark “faux redneck” has a zillion dollars in the bank, a really extreme medical emergency could take you out as well. Ever think about it?
[Roger Rabbit, Still investing in those “high Wage” union controlled companies like GM, F, and Alcoa?? Read on………Unions: The antithesis of shareholders…………………………………………………NEW YORK (Reuters) – Alcoa Inc. (NYSE:AA – News) on Monday posted a 62 percent boost in profit on higher aluminum prices and aerospace demand, but second-quarter sales dipped below Wall Street estimates, sending its shares down 4 percent.
Alcoa’s results included a charge of about $35 million, or 4 cents per share, for costs associated with a new four-year labor agreement with the United Steelworkers union.
Thanks be to proudAss at 12 above for posting a link to one of the most inane anti-liberal diatribes I’ve seen recently. Maybe some of you GOPers can help me understand what the author means by this statement:
If this is so, then what is the political aim of the islamic “terrorist”? Don’t tell me that it’s “to kill as many infidels as possible” or the like, as that does not explain their politicalre than does this genocidal rant by our own self professed Nazi:
While you’re at it, maybe the rest of you GOPer trolls can tell us whether or not you agree with the view(s) quoted above.
Liberals are phoneys. They whine when McGavick gets a golden parachute from Safeco but see nothing wrong with corporate cheap labor Dem Cantwell(D-Mexico, voted for NAFTA and CAFTA) buying out the Wilson campaign. Lib phoney Wilson got a huge golden parachute for selling out,and why not,Cantwell has plenty of money to spend. She made millions selling her dotcom stock before it tanked to suckers who got stuck holding the bag.
62
You are generalizing. Have you got a logical argument to make to put in the place of your weak little straw man?
Okay, I’ll bite. Should we be totally rebuilding New Orleans? Should people live in places that are hostile to sustained live (whether it’s hurricanes or volcanos)? The Republicans have their money rathold (Iraq) and the Dems their money rathold (New Orleans). Are either worth it?
Unfortunately, the govt has stepped in and distorted the insurance market. By guaranteeing that you will get your house replaced after a flood or hurricane, the average homeowner in the path of either has no motivation to get coverage, and the insurance companies see no need to offer any. Otherwise, the insurance company would do an actuarial analysis as to your real risk, and set your rates accordingly.
I remember going through the analysis of whether it was worth getting earthquake insurance when we bought our house. It was expensive, but it was available. If we were buying a house on the Snoqualmie River, I’m betting flood insurance isn’t offered, but people still build. Why? Because FEMA will bail them out.
62 – Ahhh! Posting from NYC perhaps?
Left Turn
Your inane attemts at intelligence in your comments are lacking in concepts, proofs, and ideas. How about offering ideas that can be discussed rather than just idiotically blathering nonsense about ‘wingers’ or other such nonsense. Most of this blog already ignores your comments as nonsense.
What’s with you, Janet? RP6033 put it about as simply as possible and still you are splitting hairs? I hope you bought that earthquake insurance because you’re gonna be the first one in line when that fault inevitably takes us out. Remember, we’re past due as it is . . .
Janet…the question this perhaps boils down to is which is more important, people or stuff. You seem to imply that the higher purpose of levees is to prevent damage to property, not to keep people from being drowned.
By this reasoning, is the “war on terror” justified on the basis of preventing Americans’ being killed by some twisted fools who’re driven crazy by our living in some way than they think is “moral”, or is it really to protect the moneyed real estate interests by preventing any more of their buildings from being destroyed–or even the preservation of international commerce to “maximize shareholder value” of giant corporations?
Art – levees are built for economic reasons, usually to free up more land to build on or grow on, not to keep people from drowning.
Janet- credible models show potential mudflows from Rainier to Tacoma and down the Kent Valley. Past evidence shows up to 40 foot deep deposits near Enumclaw (the Oseola Mudflow). Is your position that only where economic benefit pencils out should have protection? What about those folks who live there?
A better solution would have been to prohibit greedy developers from building in the lahar zone so we won’t have to pay $12 million for a bridge to save the damn fools who bought those homes. Another example of market failure, at taxpayer expense. Where would the “free market” be without taxpayer bailouts?
Same damn thing happens when local governments, under pressure from developers and “property rights” loudmouths, allows people to build in flood plains. Then we hear them howling for levees — at taxpayer expense, of course. And, need I mention, they get taxpayer-subsidized flood insurance from the government, too?
Funny thing is, these are the very people who bitch and moan about “government interference” and “high taxes” and “socialism.” Personally, I think we should give them all the “free market” they can afford — and stand — i.e., no taxpayer bailouts, they’re on their own.
Hey trolls, if they don’t like government regulation to prevent global warming, you should go live on a Pacific atoll! Make sure you find one less than 21 feet above sea level. Take a couple pool toys with you. ha-ha-ha
You know … something that floats — for you to cling to after your island goes under. ha-ha-ha
Janet at 65:
Unfortunately, you have the cause and effect mixed up. After the Mississipi floods of the 1920’s, no insurance company would insure for floods at any rate which was remotely reasonable. The U.S. was looking at large areas of infrastructure being abandoned or generally rendered unusable, because without insurance you cannot get a mortage, without a mortgage you cannot invest in economic developement. So in the absence of a private market, the U.S. government stepped in as the “insurer of last resort”. In return, the federal insurance, since the Carter administration, has attempted to identify lands within the natural floodplane and provided incentives to not rebuild in those areas. Those lands will be left as cropland, where the loss from flooding would be limited.
Unfortunately, you cannot do the same with a city the size of New Orleans.
I would agree that the system has been abused with respect to vacation homes on the ocean beaches, and there should be more limits to the value of those properties which would be covered.
JCH is already prepared for global warming: http://www.iedonline.net/house_stilts.jpg
And if raising his house up on stilts isn’t enough, he’s got this: http://www.iedonline.net/house_stilts.jpg
HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR
You can never be TOO prepared — the 1958 Lituya Bay mega-tsnumani stripped all the vegetation off a mountainside up to 1,720 feet above sea level! http://www.extremescience.com/BiggestWave.htm
34
“The Great Depression was caused by a drop in trade that resulted from collapsing commodity prices, coupled with a big drop in U.S. consumer spending, a backlash to the practice of repossession of installment financed goods upon the first missed payment.” Commentby Charles Kindleberger— 7/10/06@ 1:28 pm
The cause of the Great Depression is still vigorously debated. It probably had multiple causes. A contributing factor in the 1929 stock market crash was low margin requirements — in those days, you could buy stock for 5% down.
So Goldy is your other self the mysterious “K”, IVY League leftist hero?
Please tell me you are not a graduate of any NY State IVY League institution!
Um,Roger, check yer links. . .you posted the same one twice. .. .I think.
1
“Conservatism” is when Republicans take 500 billion dollars from the taxpayers and give it to the their friends.
Puddinghead @81,
I graduated from the University of Pennsylvania with a BA in History. But spent most of my time there immersed in theater.
@80 The extortionate war reparations imposed on Germany at Versailles didn’t help. The Weimar Republic just inflated their money supply to pay down the debt.Oops, hope the Chinese aren’t listening. . . .
I only post under “K”, am no relation to Goldy and choose to reveal no more.
There was a gas explosion in New York City today!
Was Limbaugh, Sharkansky or any of our wingnut trolls over there today?
Commentby For the Clueless— 7/10/06@ 4:32 pm
No it was Air America. A little oxygen and fuel, a shotgun spark from Randi “Gunner” Rhodes and ka-booooooom!
Of course you are still clueless, because it’s your karma.
K, I didn’t know there were any Republicans left in NYC, or Detroit, or Philly. All wonderful crime ridden Hillary Democrat shit holes.
Guess you don’t read much. The last two mayors have been republican.
ANd what your post had to do with anything is beyond me, other than to further confirm your ignorance.
Hey Puddybud! How’s the weather in NYC?
Go easy on the fart-lighting pal. Dubya might send you to Gitmo.
A better solution would have been to prohibit greedy developers from building in the lahar zone so we won’t have to pay $12 million for a bridge to save the damn fools who bought those homes. Another example of market failure, at taxpayer expense. Where would the “free market” be without taxpayer bailouts?
Commentby Roger Rabbit— 7/10/06@ 6:44 pm
I agree with this. It can’t be from Rabbit Pellet!
Hey trolls, if they don’t like government regulation to prevent global warming, you should go live on a Pacific atoll! Make sure you find one less than 21 feet above sea level. Take a couple pool toys with you. ha-ha-ha
Commentby Roger Rabbit […………………………………………………………………..Hawaiians are soooooo scared that the value of land here has dropped because of “global warming”! Oh, wait………………….. It has tripled in value in 4 years? Never mind!!! Rosanna Rosannadana [SNL]
70-Janet, I agree that the levees were INTENDED to facilitate development, but now that there are people living between them and the Big Muddy, those levees ARE connected with their continuing safety. The Gubmint built the damn things, and it should at least be honest with everyone about how secure they actually are.
Hell, when they started building on top of the old lahars a couple hundred years ago, nobody knew what that meant except here was a flat place with pretty good dirt to grow stuff in. Now we know different. How this factors into who’s liable for what is now being sorted out. Denial ain’t a very good solution.
If it’s going to get warmer, fine, let’s deal with it. I don’t believe that mankind is necessarily responsible for it happening, nor does it seem clear to me that it’s reasonable to expect that we can reverse the process. In fact, I don’t know that anyone can say at this point that all the effects are going to be negative. Hell’s bells, I don’t know about you, but I’m thoroughly enjoying this nice sunny June, not wringing my hands over how terrible it all is. But dammit, we don’t live in a static environment, and we’d damned well better be prepared to adapt or die–and that adapting stuff is something we’re going to have to do collectively, not as individuals. This libertatian crap about how each of us should be able to fend for himself is just plain silly.
Wow, I think the world has turned upside down! Roger is agreeing with the free marketers, and I am in complete agreement with Art, at least the part about global warming! I still think that we are responsible for ourselves. Collectively, the evidence is we will all die. As individuals working at existence, we will survive. (We will take care of each other because we want to, not because the state tells us we have to.)
I was just in Alaska, and it was quite an experience. Some glaciers are advancing, some are receding. Those receding have been doing so for decades. And those advancing are right next to those receding. I am convinced that there is global warming, but I seriously doubt that we have much control over it. Yeah, I know this is a highly scientific observation.
Hey Puddybud! How’s the weather in NYC?
Go easy on the fart-lighting pal. Dubya might send you to Gitmo.
Commentby For the Clueless— 7/10/06@ 8:18 pm
Read the status page. I am not in NYC. Use the Karma, Cluesless, Use the Karma
Guess you don’t read much. The last two mayors have been republican.
ANd what your post had to do with anything is beyond me, other than to further confirm your ignorance.
Commentby K— 7/10/06@ 8:09 pm
That’s because the NYC peeps were tired of tax and spend libruls who let crime increase and services decrease!
Rudy Guiliani cleaned up NYC crime and crime dropped. The nation’s crime statistics dropped too from NYC being cleaned, and Clinton took credit for something he DIDN’T do. But then again just like a librul!
Wait and see when a librul becomes NYC mayor crime will go up again. Libruls soft on crime.
60
“Roger Rabbit, Still investing in those ‘high Wage’ union controlled companies like GM, F, and Alcoa??” Commentby REP Pat Kennedy [D-Bitchslap the Black Security Guard At LAX]— 7/10/06@ 4:45 pm
Alcoa reported 62% higher profits today.
82
Sorry for the inconvenience. I meant this one. http://www.getodd.com/duck/largeimg/duckwild1.jpg
95 – Sorry Puddybud. My bad. Musta been Limbaugh that caused the gas explosion.
Or was it Sharkansky? Or was it Mr. Cynical BOZO? Or was it.. Musta been one of those gas bags.
Again Cluesless use the Karma. Limbaugh lives in Palm BEach. Remember the Viagra incident at Palm Beach Airport? Nothing illegal. Libruls try to make a story out of people’s misfortune. Typical. Remember Al Gore took Dukakis’ misfortune over furlough’s and announced it to the world.
“Roger Rabbit, Still investing in those ‘high Wage’ union controlled companies like GM, F, and Alcoa??” Commentby REP Pat Kennedy [D-Bitchslap the Black Security Guard At LAX]— 7/10/06@ 4:45 pm
Alcoa reported 62% higher profits today.
Commentby Roger Rabbit […………Alcoa missed revenue numbers. Common shares DOWN a point and a half. GET IT????]
SfMTZNhG5L wg4wQY1cqLmR GUV4249kzzSdy
wBBOBsAaTTBgza GApoUvTdOiC phTKkhO0Q6wzXk
Clothing, Phantom Dooker. Custom Clothing and Jewelry.
phantom dooker
http://phantom-dooker.vstore.ca
Clothing, Phantom Dooker. Custom Clothing and Jewelry.
phantom dooker
http://phantom-dooker.vstore.ca