I got a call this weekend from a volunteer from the Barack Obama for President campaign. It’s was a fund raising call, and I politely said that I was backing another horse. But, in the guy’s prepared text, he mentioned how Obama wants to “bring people together,” and “he’s been bringing people together his whole life.” He talked about how partisanship is ruining Washington DC, that to get things done we have to get past party labels to find solutions.
I appreciate the sentiment, but I’m not on board with it.
You can’t be talking ‘ceasefire’ while your enemies are training their guns on you. You can’t negotiate with them until you get their elbows pinned behind their backs and you hear them squeal. Senator Obama means well, I’m sure, but I think he misjudges what’s called for in ’08.
I like politicians who can work together. Seattle’s Rep. Jim McDermott has joined with Rep. Jim McCrery (R-LA) to work on healthcare. While they have their differences on policy, the goal is the same. They both want America to do something every other industrialized country does already: provide healthcare to all it’s people. McDermott favor a single-payer system in which the government plays a central role, while McCrery wants to fix the current system so it insures everyone. McCrery isn’t like a lot of Republicans. Most don’t care to solve these problems in a way that won’t give them total political victory.
I expect the sort of “play nice with the GOP” meme from folks like Joel Connelly, not a potential standard bearer like Obama.
HERE’S A LITTLE SONG FOR PUDDYBUD FROM HIS BUDDIES ON THE RIGHT WING. PUDDY’S PROUD TO BE THEIR TOOL:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=RksFJTzPzA8
(NO PUDDY I’M NOT CLAIMING IT’S MY OWN.)
I think Obama would be a fine President but I agree – the middle of the road, let’s get along, I am a moderate type Publicans got us George Bush and 12 years of corrupt Publican rule.
It’s only in the last election where we actually brought a gun to a gunfight that we won.
Those on this board who would give in to Publicans are no better than the Publicans themselves. You get to select a side. Be on ours or be on theirs but don’t sit on the fence. That just makes you a pussy.
At a farmers market this weekend, a buddy of mine ran into an Obama supporter. When pressed, the supporter could not describe Obama’s positions on any issues.
It seems that not only does the center stand for nothing, it doesn’t know for what it doesn’t stand.
Still, the center feels so warm and fuzzy.
PUDDYBUD: I’M STILL WAITING FOR PROOF THAT I ACCEPTED A BULLSHIT CHALLENGE FROM YOU – SOME BULLSHIT ABOUT MEDIA MATTERS OR KOS.
Maybe there’s hope for you yet Will.
Bill Richardson got it right in the speech announcing his candidacy today. He called Bush’s policies a result of either “willful ignorance” or “ignorant will” and said it will take years to repair the “ravages” of the Bush administration.
Polls indicate over 70% of the country is fed up with the Republicans and wants fundamental change. Even though Rove’s vote-stealing machine is huffing and puffing away, even the GOP’s rigged computers and crooked prosecutors may not be able to stop the tidal wave of voter anger coming straight at the Dingbat! cabal. When Democrats take power, there will be no seat at the table for those assholes. No negotiation, no compromise, don’t even talk to ’em; just ram our agenda down their fuckin’ throats — like they did to us. It’s what the country wants, and it’s the right thing to do.
In the past, some Democrats, in an effort to make themselves seem objective and independent, would say that they would vote for the right Republican. There was, for a time, some cachet in listening to the other side and occasionally voting that way. Now, when 30% of the Republican presidential candidates deny evolution and virtually all of them refuse to denounce what we have done at Guantanamo, any Democrat who even considers voting for a Republican betrays the cause. The Republican Party, simply, has gone off its rocker. I’m not saying there are not some good and decent Republican individuals–there most certainly are. But, the party needs to be decimated and reformulated before it should again have any serious voice in our government, whether local, state or federal.
From someone whose individual insurance with Regence just went up %20 a month after signing on, I am all for having the politicos do something for real about health care in this state and country. It will be my make or break on presidential candidacy selection.
Please, God – make the Democrats nominate Hillary in 2008!
Richardson is setting the right tone for his campaign. Now all he needs to do is add “crooks and liars” to his rhetoric and he’ll be on board the Democratic Hang-The-Traitors Express.
Yay, Will!
There is a time for low partisan third way politics and there is a time for partisan brawling. With the crazies fully in control of the right, most traditional unwilling to admit the crazies are controlling the right, or of the left is fairly moderate and that the blogsphere is NOT run by far left crazies now is not the time for third way politics.
Now is the time to fix bayonets. And let the bastards know we’re coming. Soon.
Roger Rabbit @ 13:
Forgot to mention “just kidding, you know right wing humor.”
Puddybud:
Hey, we’re gonna have to push lunch off to late June/early July.
I’m finishing a deal on a new launch for an east coast magazine. In fact, I’ll probably only post on HA on a rare occasion until early July.
Unless, of course, there’s some sort of Impeachment or other serious charges made. Then, I’ll just have to find time.
Talk to you in 7-8 weeks.
GBS
Always interesting to see how the left describes their views and war tactics concerning their fellow Americans . While blaming the actions of Terrorists and such on those same Americans .
Its like they don’t get it , there are good people and bad people , the issues that are attractive to both political parties attract both kinds , to each party . The kind of people who are attracted to folks who blow up women , children and by standers on purpose are just one kind .
the idea is appeal to our better Angels , support policies that will make us better , if that is voting democrat so be it . But please remember who the bad guys are .. shheeesh
Read some of Paul Krugman’s stuff about this bipartisanship stuff.
It will take about 2 years of balls out legislative slammola to undo a bunch of the evil that the Bush people have foisted. Virtually every arena has seen pure evil.
By the way, there is no response yet on the one-trick-pony blog about the “cybercowards” mentioned in the P-I this morning. It’s a record!
Krugman got his economics degree at K-Mart when they were running a Blue Light Special. The guy’s another Northeastern socialist idiot in the Ivory Tower of higher education.
Right On @ 16
Just try to think for yourself. For once, try to actually be empirical, to consider all the evidence, and come to an independent conclusion. Democrats know who the enemy is and we most certainly have no tolerance for terrorists or their tactics. We live in the reality world where ideology must take a back seat to what works. The Republican strategy, on the other hand, is to act macho and then pursue a strategy that aggravates the situation by creating more terrorists.
We know who the bad guys are. They are the guys who do business with the bin Laden family (George Bush Sr) – they are the guys who want to give control of our ports to Arabs (Bush Jr.)
I wish I shared some of you folks’ optimism. I was appalled this morning at Jimmy Carter’s bootlicking recanting of his statement over the weekend. What the hell…do they have one of his grandchildren held at some “undisclosed location”?
Meanwhile we have the House led by Nancy “Impeachment-is-off-the-table” Pelosi, the Senate in near gridlock, and the “Justice” department charging on behind the scenes with an apparent plan to completely jig up next year’s election while Gonzo plays dumb. It’s like watching a patient bleed to death while the doctors discuss their golf scores.
I used to wonder why the right villified people who attained higher levels of education, like the way “John Q. Public @ 18” did regarding Paul Krugman. There’s a mantra in conservative cricles that promotes the idea that somehow academia in our colleges is a bad thing.
Now I’ve figured it out. I’ve been doing a lot of reading on our Founding Fathers in the last year, Ben Franklin, George Washington, James Madison, Thomas Paine and Thomas Jefferson, currently I’m reading “Notes on the state of Virginia” By Thomas Jefferson.
Here’s what I’ve discovered; what’s true today was true at the formation of our nation, that there are two types of politicans: Socially Conservative and Socially Liberal. Like today, it was somewhat evenly divided, except back then the overall political landscape slightly tilted to the left.
This is the reason that most of the Liberal ideals prevailed at the creation of our Constitution. Like keeping religion out of government, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, divided powers, co-equal branches of government etc., although, unfortunately, not all of the Liberal ideals survived. For instance, Thomas Jefferson, a Social Liberal, wanted to write slavery out of existance in the Consitution. Social Conservatives from the South balked at such a notion claiming that they needed the Negros to build the economy of the South.
Both sides believed that higher education was necessary for men of high society, in positions of honor, industry, and political power. They also believed that an informed citizenry is essential to understanding, embracing and promoting the ideals of Liberty, Freedom and Democracy. Jefferson was such a believer of higher educatino he established what is now known as the University of Virginia, also nicknamed Mr. Jefferson’s University. Jefferson wrote in a letter to British scientist, Joseph, Priestly We wish to establish in the upper country of Virginia, and more centrally for the State, a University on a plan so broad and liberal and modern, as to be worth patronizing with the public support, and be a temptation to the youth of other States to come and drink of the cup of knowledge and fraternize with us.”
The educating of America’s youth in the philosophy and ideals of our Founding Fathers liberal political ideals is a threat to the modern day conservative movement. Thus, the assualt on academica.
In my line of work, one of the very interesting things we study is local, regional and national demography trends. Here’s an interesting fact of demography that I’ve learned and that is the higher the level of education a particular city or region has, the higher the incomes are for that area, the higher desirablity it has a place to live, the more likely it is to be a “blue” city/region. There are only a few notalbe exceptions to this rule, Cincinatti being one of them.
Georgia is a solidly Republican Red state, except Atlanta. Which has a higher level of education than the state in general, has a higher standard of living/wages than the rest of the state, has a higher concentration of college degreed inhabitants, and is a solid island of Blue in a sea of Red.
It has been said that religion is the opite of the masses, couple that with an uninformed citizenry and you have the formula for a conservative voting base.
Well, Will, you’ll find it no surprise that I’m likely to disagree, at least a little.
As fed up with the current bunch as the American public is, almost half still identify more strongly with the Republicans than with the Democrats. If they run someone that sounds “inclusive” while we do as Mr. Minion suggests and go strictly and exclusively partisan, we’ll lose.
In the last election, with a huge percentage of the country disgusted with the war and the scandals, we still just barely took the Senate. Remove Senators Webb (former Republican) and Lieberman (independent, and disliked by many Democrats), and we lose control of the Senate.
Our front runners, Mr. Obama and Ms. Clinton, are both doing their very best to appeal to a wide constituency, and to use terms that help moderate conservatives understand and even occasionally agree with them, while our most strident partisans aren’t even in the running.
Have you seen Rep. Kucinich’s numbers? He loses against every one of the Republicans except Rep. Paul. The further left the candidate gets, the lower the number of people that support him/her.
Of course, some Democrats don’t mind this, as many of us seem to be uncomfortable with winning.
When you hear people looking at the last election and talking about that being reason to go strictly partisan, and only support the furthest left candidate at that, remember that this would remove many of the seats that we picked up in the last election.
Here are a few of the folks from the House and Senate that would be unacceptable in a purge of those willing to work with conservatives:
Senate Moderates
Sen Max Baucus (MT)
Sen Evan Bayh (IN)
Sen Robert Byrd (WV)
Sen Thomas Carper (DE)
Sen Bob Casey, Jr. (PA)
Sen Hillary Clinton (NY)
Sen Tom Coburn (OK)
Sen Kent Conrad (ND)
Sen Daniel Inouye (HI)
Sen Tim Johnson (SD)
Sen John Kerry (MA)
Sen Herb Kohl (WI)
Sen Mary Landrieu (LA)
Sen Blanche Lincoln (AR)
Sen Joseph Lieberman (CT)
Sen Ben Nelson (NE)
Sen Barack Obama (IL)
Sen Mark Pryor (AR)
Sen Harry Reid (NV)
Sen Ken Salazar (CO)
Sen Jon Tester (MT)
Sen James Webb (VA)
(While I may think that Sen Maria Cantwell (WA), Sen Russ Feingold (WI), Sen Diane Feinstein (CA), Sen Ted Kennedy (MA), Sen Patty Murray (WA), Sen Jay Rockefeller (WV), and Sen Ron Wyden (OR) also belong on this list, I can see others disagreeing, so I left them off.)
House Moderates
Mike Arcuri (NY)
Joe Baca (CA)
John Barrow (GA)
Melissa Bean (IL)
Marion Berry (AR)
Sanford Bishop (GA)
Dan Boren (OK)
Leonard Boswell (IA)
Allen Boyd (FL)
Dennis Cardoza (CA)
Ben Chandler (KY)
Jim Cooper (TN)
Jim Costa (CA)
Bud Cramer (AL)
Henry Cuellar (TX)
Lincoln Davis (TN)
Joe Donnelly (IN)
Chet Edwards (TX)
Brad Ellsworth (IN)
Kirsten Gillibrand (NY)
Bart Gordon (TN)
Jane Harman (CA)
Stephanie Herseth Sandlin (SD)
Baron Hill (IN)
Tim Holden (PA)
Steve Israel (NY)
Tim Mahoney (FL)
Jim Marshall (GA)
Jim Matheson (UT)
Mike McIntyre (NC)
Charlie Melancon (LA)
Mike Michaud (MN)
Dennis Moore (KS)
Patrick Murphy (PA)
Solomon Ortiz (TX)
Collin Peterson (MN)
Earl Pomeroy (ND)
Mike Ross (AR)
John Salazar (CO)
Loretta Sanchez (CA)
Adam Schiff (CA)
David Scott (GA)
Heath Shuler (NC)
Ike Skelton (MO)
John Tanner (TN)
Gene Taylor (MS)
Mike Thompson (CA)
Charlie Wilson (OH)
Albert Wynn (MD)
As you can see, Democrats would be back in the minority.
I’m not sure how many here actually remember the last few times we ran a strictly partisan, left wing candidate. It’s been done several times in my memory. We had Hubert Humphrey, George McGovern and Walter Mondale.
None of those worked out all that well for us.
@ 23
It’s not about being “to the left”. It’s about putting up a fight against the radical GOP. Stupid moderate Democrats are convinced that America doesn’t want what Democrats are selling, and that we have to “moderate” our message by being for things like wars and taxcuts and rich people.
Supposed moderates like Tester and Webb have a fierce populist streak. They’re good moderates, if that’s what you want to call them John.
@9 “From someone whose individual insurance with Regence just went up %20 a month after signing on, I am all for having the politicos do something for real about health care in this state and country. It will be my make or break on presidential candidacy selection.”
But it’s all your fault, you see. Didn’t you watch that segment on KING-5 News last night where the CEO of Premera Regence blamed the price increases on consumers?
I’ll bet the board of directors pays her over $1 million a year to smile at the TV cameras and say things like that.
@10 Doesn’t matter who we nominate. Mickey Mouse could beat the Republicans in ’08 — if we have an honest election.
P.S., the Mother Rabbit Spirit told me God isn’t accepting any more requests from Republicans because they’ve already used up their allotment.
@14 Who’s kidding?
@16 “The kind of people who are attracted to folks who blow up women , children and by standers on purpose are just one kind .”
Personally, I think it’s disgusting that Eric Rudolph gets lots of fan mail from wingnuts.
@18 I like Krugman’s economics better than I like wingnut economics.
@21 And let’s not forget that Democrats in Congress are helping Republicans steal elections because they, too, want America to remain a rich white boys club.
@23 “In the last election, with a huge percentage of the country disgusted with the war and the scandals, we still just barely took the Senate.”
That’s because the GOP vote thieves miscalculated, John. They stole only 3 1/2 million votes, figuring that would be enough to keep Congress in Republican hands. It wasn’t.
Hey John — I sold 1/3 of my NOV stock today and bought NE with it. I’m moving some of my funds from oilfield equipment makers to oil rig operators. The former stocks will mature first, and the latter stocks will follow as the equipment moves from shop floors to the field, and the oil and gas revenues start coming in. About 2 years left on the energy stocks; then we’re gonna have a big recession as weak housing prices and high gas prices take a toll on consumer confidence and spending.
If Mr. Cynical had bought NOV at 58 like I told him to do, he would have a $37 per share profit by now.
Capitalism is great! I made 1000s of $$$ asleep in bed. I didn’t have to do a lick of work except pick up the phone and tell my broker “buy X shares of NOV.”
Why the hell should anyone do ANY work when our system pays workers peanuts and taxes the shit out of them while showering trainloads of cash and tax breaks on managements and shareholders?
What we need in this country is a General Strike where nobody works. Under our fucked-up wingnut incentive system, the less work you do, the richer you get!!
Ok, Will, I hear what you’re saying, and I agree, but that doesn’t seem to jibe with the original premise of the thread.
Perhaps I’m misreading the meaning of what you’re saying, but my call is that Sen Obama has the right idea. Reach out to those to whom you can without compromising your ideals, regardless of party. That’s not “ceasefire”, it’s just inclusive politics that recognizes that the President has to represent the whole country, not just the half that votes Democratic.
I’ve been waivering between Senators Edwards and Obama for a while. I actually think that Senator Obama is a bit further left ideologically than Senator Edwards, but he manages to get his points across in a manner that doesn’t send moderate conservatives running for the hills. (I’d really like to see Vice President Gore run again, but that seems unlikely at the moment.)
Whoever wins will have to find ways to work with members of both parties, so starting out by announcing that you’re willing to make the effort seems like a pretty good thing to do.
After all, he doesn’t just have to win the nomination. He has to win the election as well, and making statements that exclude half of the electorate seems like a bad idea.
Roger
Sounds like a pretty good plan, but you’d better get the timing just right, or you could end up holding a whole bunch of worthless stock. When those companies go, it will probably be all at once.
Too risky for me. I’ll just keep buying funds that invest in green technology. They’re doing well, and when that last drop of oil is squeezed out of Saudi Arabia, they’ll still be worth something.
Oh, and yes, before I hear from Christmasghost and her buddies, I also invest in real estate. Even after the crash, folks will need somewhere to live.
Of course, I look at altitude above MSL and check the flood zones before investing.
Cluelessman@4: You accepted it when you were Clueless. Don’t you remember. Oh you got that KEYBOARD STUCK THING ehrn you changed your nick to Yos Lib Bro.
Remember that the John Barelli’s of this world want to suck Publican cock so they’re happy to be part of the GET ALONG crowd. Look at his post. He doesn’t cite authority. It’s just his opinion. Remember if you know people like this – confront them. Let them know that they are just as bad (if not worse) that the cowards on the right. If you’re with us you’re with us. If you’re not – fuck you.
WIll got it right. The reason we won in the last election was that we FINALLY fought back. We didn’t pussy out like John Boy. We fought back and we TOOK what was ours, no thanks to traitors like Johnny.
PUDDYBUD @ 41
URL? CITE?
C’MON PUDDYBUD – I GAVE YOU A LINK WHEN YOU ASKED.
QUID PRO QUO.
BUT IT’S LIKELY YOU’LL NEVER FIND IT BECAUSE IT’S PROBABLY BULLSHIT.
Aw Will, watcha want from a phone call???
Would you prefer Obama’s folks diss Edwards? BO and Hillary are both working hard to run POSITIVE CAMPAIGNS! And folks like you complain.
You want a stand? or a gunfight?
We didn’t get Bush because the Left compromised (that IS gow we got Clinton). We got Bush because of a devious and finally failed Jingoist, Jesus, Join the Gang campaigm that sold moddle class Americans on a pipe dream.
Jeeezzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
Hay Will, You got $31??
That is what it cost students at UC Davis to Mr. Edwards talk ABOUT POVERTY! Yep .. he charged $55,000, the highest pseaker fee paid last year by the UC Mondavi Center for an entertainer or other speaker.
I don’t want to diss Edwards, but there is something odd about making you living by collecting fees for speaking about poverty. Something errr ahhh well ,,,, ???
To make matters worse, Edwards foundation for poverty made a lot of $$$ for his staff. Yes, they did dispers some of the funds they raised .. anout 20%. This is NOT unusual. many “charities” pay their oweners big bennies. Still, it makes it a little hard to take Edwards’ commitment ot poverty seriously.
So, back at your being upset that the Bama volunteer didn’t fill you with specifics … I agree. But Edwards’ specific are not all that convincing. It sis easy to lie in an indoor swimming pool dictating a tome on poverty to your underpaid secretary.
Personally, I want to see Bama or Hillaberry or Eddywards or the Catholic snmart guy from New Mexico, GET ELECTED! I prefer the Jedi Knight from Chicago because, well because I think he has le3adership skills the others do not have, I can vote fofr any of these folks .. I do not need to diss any of them.
SeattleJew
Will,
Obama isn’t playing to the middle, he happens to believe that this country needs to go through a healing process and that he can better push for a balanced budget, withdrawal from Iraq, and universal health care through better politics.
I would rather see someone genuine like him win the nomination because I am confident he can bring people together.
I am also proud he doesn’t have to pander and apologize for his vote in Iraq because he opposed it from the beginning, ran as an anti-war candidate in the Senate and won.
All I hear from your buddy John Edwards is that he is “sorry” and that gives him 0 credibility. I also think he loses credibility when he gets 400 dollar hair cuts on campaign dollars.
John Edwards is a panderer and people sense his fakeness.
Also, Obama is still introducing himself to the country and talking about his platform. This is not the time for him to get lost in policy.
Read his book if you want to know where he stands. If you are patient he will have his policy and we can all sit here and debate the best plan.
In the end, people will elect Senator Obama because he is genuine and offers a vision for our party.
He will have plans. Every Congressman has a 10 point plan on solving our healthcare problem. What we lack is leadership.
When Obama decides that people have a good sense of what he wants to do and releases plans what will you say then?
Geoff..
BO is also playing a game. He loses by taking too specific a stand. Edward’s proposals, OTOH, have no real meaning either.
The best we can do with candy-dates is to read what people who know them think and hope to see through the hype.
GBS wrote: “I used to wonder why the right villified people who attained higher levels of education, like the way “John Q. Public @ 18″ did regarding Paul Krugman. There’s a mantra in conservative cricles that promotes the idea that somehow academia in our colleges is a bad thing.”
Paul Krugman is an idiot: When he lied and was caught big time about the Florida recount in 2000, the NY Times ombudsman took him to the woodshed. When he lied about other economic data he was taken to the woodshed again. Did you forget these GBS? I posted the links. Search the ‘Wipes archives.
Puddybud @ 49:
A) you missed my entire point about the assault on academia by the right.
B) Have you been listening to the Monica Goodling testimony?
Yeah, turns out Karl Rove and Tim Griffith have been performing illegal voter caging efforts since 2000, but especially 2004.
The only reason George W. Bush is the president is through illegal and massive voter fraud.
It’s no longer rhetoric; conservatives are against the traditional values of our Liberal Founding Fathers and wish to create a new nation state.
It’s high time conservatives admit it or at least realize it.