The same coalition of business, labor and environmental organizations that came together last year to handedly defeat Initiative 912 (gas tax repeal,) filed a lawsuit today in Thurston County Superior court seeking to disqualify 3000 pages of signatures for I-917, Tim Eyman’s doomed “Yet Another Thirty Dollar Car Tab” (YATDCB) initiative.
Fifteen business, labor and environmental organizations announced the challenge on Tuesday, invoking a 2005 law that requires signature-gatherers to personally sign a declaration that the information on the petition is correct.
Initiative 917 solicitors did not sign the statement on more than 3,000 of the 17,000 petitions, and those pages must be thrown out, the group said.
“The Legislature passed a law to ensure that signature-gatherers are honest and accountable,” said Steve Mullen, president of the Washington Roundtable, the organization of top corporate CEOs. “There has been substantial fraud in other states, and laws like this are necessary to keeping the initiative process clean and to protect the voters.”
Substantial fraud in other states? More like massive fraud, with signature rejection rates surpassing fifty percent with some initiatives.
One of the primary purposes of the 2005 law was to require signature gatherers to identify themselves on petitions so that authorities could better track cases of intentional fraud to individual signature gatherers. But in response to a query from state Rep. Toby Nixon (R-45), Attorney General Rob McKenna issued a rather tortured opinion, arguing that while the law requires the declaration to be printed on the initiative, it does not actually require the declaration to be signed.
Huh? Then what’s the purpose?
That’s what the court is going to be asked to decide — the actual legislative intent behind the declaration — and in an email exchange Rep. Nixon insisted that McKenna got it right:
I’ve seen the opinion and agree with it. In fact, it was me who pointed out the legislative history of the bill
Looks like FUD. Create Fear, introduce Uncertainty, cast aspersions of Doubt.
Now why would friends of Goldie want to throw out 3000 forms? Maybe they have inside info on a higher acceptance rate than the statistical sample demonstrated and they are AFRAID of the result?
Get real. Eyman’s initiative drives seem to always be flawed in some way. And with his little stunt over having a “receipt” stamped, I wouldn’t put anything past him.
And FUD is a wholly owned trademark tactic of the authoritarian conservative republicans
SEVEN BILLION AND COUNTING…
Seven fucking billion dollars that Tim has saved The Producers.
Hey Goldy – I keep asking and you keep not answering… howyadoin’ on your first billion. You’d give ANYTHING to have even a fraction of the political influence that Tim has. Instead of blabbing and blogging, why don’t you be like Tim and get off you ass and do something? Why don’t you start an initiative to outlaw initiatives? Or maybe an initiative to confiscate all assets of anyone with more than $100k net worth and put it into your daughter’s failing school system?
Shorter #3:
Law, schmaw! I like Timmy’s codpiece.
Illinois Senator Barack Obama warns citizens at his 50th Town Hall meeting about gas guzzling. It was among many points made to the standing room only audience at the Metropolis Community Center. Obama spoke on everything from DC politics to global warming. He says part of the blame for the world’s higher temperatures rests on gas guzzling vehicles. Obama says consumers can make the difference by switching to higher mileage hybrids. Today the Senator said, “It would save more energy, do more for the environment and create better world security than all the drilling we could do in Alaska.”
After the meeting… Obama left in a tricked out GMC Envoy after admitting to favoring SUV’s himself. [Classically funny!!! Typical bull shit from a dumb ass lib who may run with Hillary]
Hey MTR- tell me again how you admire Eyeman in spite of the fact he deceived the folks in the religious community who he asked to help.
UH oh. JCH (formerly McKinney D-Bitchslap Kennedy) forgot to take his Ritalin again!
-You’d give ANYTHING to have even a fraction of the political influence that Tim has.-
Uh oh, Goldy. That was a real insult, considering Eyman’s influence is down near zero (it would be zero if it weren’t for one clueless sugardaddy).
The Washington Roundtable and AGC are kicking Timmy when he’s down? Sounds like a bunch of liberals to me!
@4 Considering MarkeeMark’s problem wth any thing having a vagina, you may be right on the Mark!
I thought this was the party of “let every vote count”? Should an individual voter be disenfranchised because a paid worker didn’t sign his/her sheet?
re 9: Should a millionaire with more money than brains be constantly throwing the state into turmoil and unnecessary expense by siccing a marroon like Eyeman on us with his idiotic and retrograde initiatives every election?
I guess Tim is, “…adapting to win….”, or, “…staying the course!” Who knows?
headless lucy@10 Good to see you back again!. . .mother of us all!
Cool… Headless Loocy is back… Here’s some samples from my ”
Best of Loocy” collection? Hey loocy, any quotables today? LMAO…
Don’t talk to me about “core beliefs…”
Commentby headless lucy— 3/25/06@ 7:07 pm
…the oil industry is a zero sum game ( like checkers )
Commentby headless lucy— 4/9/06@ 2:56 pm
“Most wealthy people inherited their wealth and haven’t worked a day in their lives…”
Commentby headless lucy— 4/13/06@ 5:14 pm
I saw in today’s paper that real estate is still hot in my Green Lake neighborhood. http://tinyurl.com/fe6ww Of course, I knew home seekers are desperate when this guy showed up next to my burrow last week. http://tinyurl.com/luu8a
Why aren’t the folks howling about voter ID complaining about initiative petitions that don’t have signatures on them? Why aren’t they as worried about initiative petition fraud as they are about voting fraud? Is there a double standard here?
1950’s ramblers are “hot”? WTF?
1
“Now why would friends of Goldie want to throw out 3000 forms?”
Hmmmm … because maybe they’re fraudulent? You know … election fraud?
3
“Seven fucking billion dollars that Tim has saved The Producers.”
If we ignore, for a moment, the fact that most of Tim’s initiatives were thrown out by the courts because of legal defects and therefore didn’t save taxpayers anything … and pretend that Tim DID save taxpayers $7 billion … then,
1) He has only $218 billion to go before he catches up with Christine Gregoire, who saved Washington state taxpayers $225 billion by winning the tobacco cases, and
2) That’s $7 billion of lost revenue that didn’t educate children, fix roads, or build the public infrastructure that businesses need to move commerce and get employees to work.
Goldy — if the CHEAP LABOR CONSERVATIVES repeal the 13th amendment, will you sell Redneck to me for the $100 he owes you? Sincerely, R. Rabbit
9 ROGER RABBIT RIDDLE
“Should an individual voter be disenfranchised because a paid worker didn’t sign his/her sheet?” Commentby Michael— 8/15/06@ 5:54 pm
How many voters get disenfranchised if the paid worker signed all the names on the sheet himself?
(Answer below)
None
judging by the sequence here, the opponants of the initiaitve just want to keep moving the goal posts. 3rd time is a charm, and this time they might actually have to listen to the people and make the tabs 30 dollars.
Which I like. The smoke and mirrors used to determine value in the excise tax is ridiculous, as anyone who paid it would know.
Nobbody worried about the damn laws when counting those provisional ballots, the Fatal-Pend ballots of NON-registered people, and let’s not forgot the felon 1600 plus felon voters.
And the dead people, I guess the law doesn’t say you have to be breathing, does it?
That should be Nobody……… not nob body………
Speaking of dead voters, when reporters contacted the people who got caught voting their dead spouses’ ballots, of the few willing to say who they voted for — all cast their illegal “dead votes” for Rossi.
Now why am I not surprised that the cheaters are Republicans?
Probably because Republicans are pathological LIARS and are running the most CORRUPT administration since Grant and STEAL everything they can lay their hands on … so, given their total lack of MORAL VALUES why shouldn’t we expect them to commit ELECTION FRAUD, too?
are pathological LIARS and are running the most CORRUPT administration since Grant and STEAL everything they can lay their hands on …
Commentby Roger Rabbit— 8/15/06@ 7:42 pm
Sorry rabbit that moniker was taken by the dems and the Clinton administration. Try again.
Any party that is against voter IDing at the polls are by definition cheaters. Election fraud is the democratic way. Always has and always will.
Neither party has a stellar record on voting integrity. And it seems that both parties want to sue whenever they think it benefits their side.
Eyman claims he saved people money while driving up the costs of transportation projects that would have been built far cheaper years ago without his slimey initiatives.
The guy is a flypaper for lawsuits. He can’t tell the truth. And he can’t deliver anything to the ballot even with a big sugar daddy or a coalition of three preachers who claim a non-existent brigade of fundy soldiers.
Can we please just ignore the this dopey egomaniac?
How disgusting it is that Jimmy Carter’s son is trying to break into politics. Even worse, he’s doing it in Nevada.
The little peanut farmer was the worst President ever. What will his son be like? At least he is an investment banker.
Hey E – From the best of collection:
*For our illiterate trollfucks who are adverse to reading, Roi Ubu is…
Commentby Dr. E— 8/14/06@ 7:32 pm
Have you had a chance to sign up for a freshman english class yet? Or have you been too busy trying to figure out who caused WTC to collapse.
Dumbfuckingass…
Well, WSDOT, certainly can’t get any worse – can they? Their 2DOT for Safety program was a complete failure on I-5. Now, they are moving it to another highway location in the state, where they will undoubtly screw up the traffic again. You know they just have to spend that 35,000 grand, the contractor must be somebody’s buddy.
Neither party has a stellar record on voting integrity. And it seems that both parties want to sue whenever they think it benefits their side.
Commentby sgmmac— 8/15/06@ 8:13 pm
I disagree. Putting the republicans in the same league as the democrats when it comes to voting fraud is like putting a J- walker in the same league as a serial killer. The dems from Francine Busby back to Kennedy in the 60’s have a long history of voter fraud. There is no comparison.
Hey E – From the best of collection:
*For our illiterate trollfucks who are adverse to reading, Roi Ubu is…
Commentby Dr. E— 8/14/06@ 7:32 pm
Have you had a chance to sign up for a freshman english class yet? Or have you been too busy trying to figure out who caused WTC to collapse.
Dumbfuckingass…
Commentby Mark The Redneck— 8/15/06@ 8:16 pm
You’re just a glutton for punishment, aren’t you? He’s already smacked you around on this one, but you keep coming back for more:
Gosh, Mark, you sure told me. Guess I owe you one.
Would you delerious moonbats…
Commentby Mark The Redneck— 8/13/06@ 12:02 pm
So while you delerious moonbats…
Commentby Mark The Redneck— 12/13/05@ 4:25 pm
The delerious moonbats who…
Commentby Mark The Redneck— 12/20/05@ 8:53 pm
…And if you’re so delerious that you…
Comment by Mark The Redneck — 2/24/06 @ 8:47 pm
Et cetera. I think you mean “delirious”, not “delerious”. You know, as in “delirium”.
Aside from that, did you have a point, other than further proving how incurious you are?
Commentby Dr. E— 8/14/06@ 10:05 pm
Heh, indeed.
Ahhh yes Francine Busby telling an illegal Mexican he can vote. I guess San Diego is the next banana republic? Now that’s funny!
Who is this headless lucy?
25
“Sorry rabbit that moniker was taken by the dems and the Clinton administration. Try again.” Commentby Dan Rather-Whats the frequen— 8/15/06@ 7:47 pm
Dan, when you pee into the wind, you wet your pants.
People like TJ and E also confuse the words “moot” and “mute”. Do either of you know the fucking difference?
26
“Any party that is against voter IDing at the polls are by definition cheaters.” Commentby Dan Rather-Whats the frequen— 8/15/06@ 7:52 pm
That’s why a DEMOCRATIC legislature passed a voter-ID law and a DEMOCRATIC governor signed it. We’re going to stop Republican election cheaters in their tracks — GOP felon voters, GOP double voters, GOP dead voters … all of ’em. We’re also going to throw the GOP-manufactured touch-screen voting machines into the dumpster, where they belong.
I can’t speak for Dr. E, but, yes, I do know the difference. Are you looking for someone to explain it to you?
Headless Loony:
The same who said: YOU ARE A NIGGER. YOU NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT. YOU CAN BE OUT IN MASSA”S COTTONFIELDS (and you will) WHEN HE SEES FIT. -Comment by headless lucy 9/14/05 @ 11:58 pm Lionel of the Jeffersons? The same headless loony who said: “PacMan’s such a fine example of his race! If he were a shade lighter we’d let him play with us on the baseball team.” The same headless loony who said: “RUFUS PACMAN”!!!???!! RASTARUFARIANAPACMAN I don t get it???? Well, actually, I do. Niiiggggggggggggggeeeer Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeese!!! No black person in this day and age is named RUFUS!!!!! That s about as believable as POMPEII or ROCHESTER!!!!!! Oh, ROCHESTER!!! YASSUH, MISTAH BENNY! -Comment by headless lucy 9/15/05 @ 10:56 pm
The same headless loony who said: “Puddybud is a house nigger. But he knows enough not to leave the house at night.” -Comment by headless lucy 9/16/05 @ 12:00 am
The same headless loony who said: “There were those who worked in the fields and those who worked in the house. Those who worked in the house protected their positions and felt above those who worked in the fields. But at the end of the day, they were all property. This is a truth the house niggers sought to deny. But it is a truism that Colin Powell and Condoleeza Rice understand every day of their lives.” -Comment by headless lucy 9/16/05 @ 12:22 am
I think so! Just wondering?
#
The only way to defang the N word is to use it ’til it’s no more offensive than the word Redneck. Intent is 99 percent of the game in race-baiting and I believe that Cynical, Puddybud, Mark the Redneck and a host of other conservative commenters here said and continue to say extremely callous and racist things about black people in New Orleans and black people in general. Watching them say these things and then hypocritically leap upon Headless Lucy for saying the word nigger is the height of cynical hypocrisy.
I do not subscribe to the theory that only a black person can say the N word. And I’m willing to take the heat for it for reasons of my own. It is just a word and a white word to boot. I still say it is EXTREMELY hypocritical of those house niggers Cynical, Puddybud, and Mark the Redneck, to call me racist when they are clearly the most bigoted SOB’s I’ve had the displeasure to deal with in a long time. And if PacMan wants to be buds with this crew of racist jackals then he’d better be prepared to get called a few names he might not like.
Comment by headless lucy — 9/16/05 @ 6:33 pm
So loony, are you looking for them “white niggers” like Robert 3K Sheets Byrd? Crawl back into your Rabbit Pellet like burrow next to Rabbit Pellet!
No, just that dumbfuckingasses like you usually don’t know these things. Good job looking it up though… use your new found knowledge wisely.
You’re welcome…
Hey dumbass loony: I can talk about my black people as being callous, dumb asses like Al Tawana Brawley Sharpton and Jesse Hi-Jackson! Now run along and don’t come back!
27
“Neither party has a stellar record on voting integrity.” Commentby sgmmac— 8/15/06@ 8:13 pm
Gimme a break, Mac! You just don’t want to own up to the fact that NO Democratic election fraud was ever proved in the 2004 governor’s election, there’s no evidence such fraud ever existed, but there are always massive problems wherever Republicans run elections.
How many King County voters complained about voting machines switching their votes from Bush to Kerry? Absolutely none. How many Ohio voters complained about voting machines switching their Kerry votes to Bush? Thousands.
How long did Ohio voters have to wait in line, in freezing cold, to vote in Democratic precincts? Up to 8 hours. How long did voters wait in line in Republican-leaning Ohio precincts? In most cases, 5 minutes or less.
How many registered letters did GOP operatives mail to the home addresses of soldiers serving in Iraq — and then challenge their voter registrations when they didn’t respond? Thousands. How many registered letters did Democratic staffers send to soldiers, etc. … none.
See the pattern here?
Only one political party is systematically disenfranchising voters, rigging voting machines, and obstructing voters at the polls — and we all know which party it is. The GOP.
Mac, as an Iraq veteran, you should be mighty pissed off at those guys. After all, you laid your life on the line to defend the freedoms we have in this country, including the right to vote. To any veteran, it should be extremely offensive that cynical political operators fight as hard to keep people voting in America as you did to win the right to vote for Iraqis. Something is out of sync here. It ain’t right, and you know it ain’t right. And you know damn well who’s doing it.
Hey loocy, any quotables today? LMAO…
Don’t talk to me about “core beliefs…”
Commentby headless lucy— 3/25/06@ 7:07 pm
…the oil industry is a zero sum game ( like checkers )
Commentby headless lucy— 4/9/06@ 2:56 pm
“Most wealthy people inherited their wealth and haven’t worked a day in their lives…”
Commentby headless lucy— 4/13/06@ 5:14 pm
Great librul thought processes from that pillar or human excrement headless lucy!
MTR Kennedy: Those were loony’s quotables against me and PacMan! I bless you adding them to your collection.
Correction
“How many registered letters did GOP operatives mail to the home addresses of soldiers serving in Iraq – and then challenge their voter registrations when they didn’t respond? Thousands.”
Should read “hundreds” not “thousands”
MTR Kennedy: Another one: “Black people can be stressful to be around 24/7. Believe me , I know.” Commentby headless lucy— 9/16/05@ 10:12 pm
MTR Kennedy: Thanks Cynical though for your help with the Negro problem. Commentby headless lucy— 9/17/05@ 7:47 am
Pud – Got ’em. They’re in the collection.
Ain’t moonbats great…
No moonbats are not great. But I know what you mean!
His pals in the Republican political establishment had stopped taking his calls weeks ago, and Tim was desperate. He was sullen, depressed. Out of money and out of time.
He’d been drinking heavily. His breath reeked of Sterno.
“You gotta help me,” he cried, grabbing me by the lapels. “I can’t hold on much longer!”
I pushed him away and gave him a smart bitch slap. “Straighten up, you sniveling coward,” I snarled, “You think you got problems?” I pulled my Gerber Mini Magnum from it’s hiding place in my ostrich skin Acme cowboy boots and shoved it into his filthy, sweaty palm. “Do the right thing,” I said, giving him a full taste of my Saigon Mirrored sunglasses.
He stared at the evil little snub-nosed monster in his hand. His eyes glazed over, he gave me a pathetic glance, then he turned and shuffled slowly toward the men’s room at the back of the Greyhound bus terminal.
I watched him for a few moments, almost feeling sorry for the guy.
Almost, but not quite.
37
“People like TJ and E also confuse the words ‘moot’ and ‘mute’. Do either of you know the fucking difference?” Commentby Mark The Redneck— 8/15/06@ 8:52 pm
Do you? Just curious — since you don’t know what “you lost the bet, pay up” means.
41
“Crawl back into your … burrow next to Rabbit Pellet!” Commentby Puddybud Fitzgerald Kennedy— 8/15/06@ 9:00 pm
What’s wrong with a comfy hole in warm dirt snuggled under tree roots with earthworms keeping you company? The earthworms are better conversationalists than you are.
53
It was a dark and stormy night. Somewhere in the distance a dog barked …
How many King County voters complained about voting machines switching their votes from Bush to Kerry? Absolutely none.
Commentby Roger Rabbit— 8/15/06@ 9:04 pm
How would KC voters know if there vote even counted? The KCRE is a disgrace and stole the election from Rossi. The pattern of democratic voter fraud of throwing out republican votes to not mailing military ballots spans all donk counties. We also have cases of democrat voter fraud in St Louis, Ohio, Wisconsin, Milwaukee ect ect. There is no credible evidence of the diebold voting machines throwing the election in Ohio, it is all made up. The report by the AVRC has case after case of democratic voter fraud. Republicans have tried to get mandatory voter ID at the polls in Georgia,Michigan and other states only to be blocked by democrats who say it is discrimatory. Bottom line is Democrats cheat. There is little to no republican voter fraud.
Francine Busby is not the exception but the rule for democrats running in the Southwest.
Dan when you said the democrats willifully disenfranchised military voters did you mean something like this”
From Navy Seals.com
http://www.navyseals.com/commu.....fm?id=6536
By Chad Miles
A recent report issued by the National Defense Committee, a nonprofit organization that supports the U.S. military and encourages veterans to run for elective office, recently found that 25 percent of ballots cast by military personnel in the 2004 presidential election went uncounted. Incredibly, that rate of disenfranchisement could be even higher due to the fact that the study relied on voluntary disclosure of information from local election officials.
Unfortunately, the issue of soldiers being disenfranchised during an election is nothing new. We all remember the 2000 Florida recount fiasco and the events surrounding it. During that election, the rate of uncounted ballots cast by members of the armed forces was even higher at a staggering 29 percent nationwide.
In Florida, which turned out to be the pivotal state in determining the winner of the 2000 election, around 1,400 military absentee votes were left uncounted, largely because of the role of lawyers working for the Democratic Party at local canvassing boards who followed a directive from the party to challenge all military ballots on the premise that they likely were votes for Republican nominee George W. Bush.
Although many lawmakers vowed that the level of disenfranchisement seen in the aftermath of that election would never happen again, it looks like it did.
According to the committee’s study, “Military and Overseas Absentee Voting in the 2004 Election,” the largest problem in managing military absentee ballots is not hostile attorneys, but rather what military historians call “the tyranny of distance” – the unavoidable difficulties inherent in getting ballots to our deployed military people serving overseas.
During the election in 2000, the study found that, 30 percent of military personnel did not receive their ballot in time to cast a vote. When you combine that figure with the number of votes that were tossed out for various reasons – including arriving to the absentee voters via snail mail past voting deadlines – you can see that the scope of the problem is enormous.
The challenge of getting ballots to soldiers was even worse during the 2004 election due to the post-9/11 deployments of military units to Iraq, Afghanistan and dozens of other countries in support of the Global War on Terror, the committee found. Units frequently on the move and mail delays caused by local threats such as the danger of roadside bombs made the task of getting ballots to the troops even more daunting.
However, military absentee voters once again in 2004 found themselves the target of partisan political maneuvering as had happened in Florida four years earlier.
Recognizing the fact that more time would be needed to count all of the military ballots arriving from overseas, the Pennsylvania legislature in 2004 requested that Gov. Edward G. Rendell authorize a two-week extension for the acceptance of military ballots to compensate for the issues surrounding the wartime situation in which our soldiers are now engaged.
However, in Pennsylvania in 2004, as in Florida in 2000, political operatives were motivated by their longstanding knowledge that a strong majority of military voters generally supports Republican candidates.
Rendell, a Democrat, initially refused the request to assist military absentee voters. But it later was discovered that he had launched an aggressive “get out the vote” information campaign within the state’s prison population, informing inmates of voting rights and providing them with absentee ballots for the election. Other studies have shown that a majority of the prison voting population supports Democratic candidates. The adverse publicity prompted Rendell to approve the extension for military overseas voters.
In Washington state, the U.S. Justice Department threatened to sue less than a month before the 2004 election because election officials had yet to even mail out absentee ballots to military personnel overseas. What may have been bureaucratic incompetence may well have altered the outcome of that state’s gubernatorial election.
The Washington state governor’s race between Republican nominee Dino Rossi and Democratic nominee Christine Gregoire turned out to be even tighter than the Florida presidential vote count in 2000. The Republican candidate won the first two re-counts but ultimately lost the third by 128 votes. With a total of 31,910 overseas ballots mailed out for that election, it’s easy to see that even a few lost, late or missing military votes made a huge impact in the election, ultimately deciding the race.
When it was time for Congress to ratify the 2004 election results and electoral vote count for the offices of President and Vice President during a joint session last December, two Democratic legislators challenged the results on the basis of voting irregularities and disenfranchisement. Was someone finally going to raise the issue of one-fourth of our deployed military men and women not having a voice in the democratic process? No.
The challenge concerned votes cast in the state of Ohio, which turned out to be the pivotal state in 2004 with enough electoral votes to swing the election and the Presidency to John Kerry. The challenge centered on disqualification of a newly created provisional ballot, not the military vote, and was nothing more than a symbolic protest by the party that had lost the presidential election.
It appears that once again the rights of military overseas voters are no longer an issue within the political establishment.
We should not have to still be struggling with this issue. Before the 2004 election, the Department of Defense launched an online voting system called the Secure Electronic Registration and Voting Experiment (SERVE), designed to give military personnel deployed around the world the ability to vote instantly online. This would have obviously corrected the problems surrounding the reliance of postal mail for balloting, and put an end to the partisan shenanigans we saw in Florida with Democratic Party lawyers targeting military voters for ballot rejection.
Alas, DoD officials opted to shut down the SERVE program before the election due to security concerns dealing with the sensitive nature of the data and the possibility of illegitimate votes being tabulated. Since DoD manages to send thousands of classified messages daily around the globe, many of them stamped “Top Secret,” it is hard to imagine that these security and privacy concerns cannot be resolved.
It is ridiculous to have our troops filling out paper ballots and placing them in the mail in a day and age when publicly available technology allows you to take a picture and send it to someone on the other side of the world with a small cellphone. The disenfranchisement on the scale that we have seen in recent years is unacceptable, but it is definitely correctible.
If DoD officials take the time to develop a secure and dependable electronic voting system, some election results may be drastically different in the years to come – but unlike the number of contested elections we have seen since 2000, the results will more likely reflect the judgment of all of the voters – including those serving in harm’s way to protect our freedoms.
Contributing Editor Chad Miles is a U.S. Army veteran who served with the 82nd Airborne Division and the 5th Special Forces Group during the 1990s. He founded the website WhoServed.com, which tracks the military service of previous and current U.S. government leaders, and is currently pursuing a degree in political science from the University of Michigan – Dearborn. He can be reached at chad@whoserved.com. Send Feedback responses to dwfeedback@yahoo.com.
You mean like that right?
Roger,
I’m not an Iraq veteran. I was in Desert Storm – First Gulf War and the Kosovo Air Campaign or whatever we ended up calling that conflict. (Daddy Bush and Clinton)
I wasn’t just talking about Washington State, but rather overall through the years. Both parties have been less than stellar.
What was proven here in Washington State and what happened are two different things. King County made so many mistakes, it defies logic that they weren’t deliberate. They also were great at screwing over both of the parties to discovery during the lawsuit and trial. Both sides complained to Judge Bridges about King County.
I read an interesting article at the PI’s website from Sam Reed concerning King County Elections. He is urging the county to change their charter and make the elections director an elected official.
I wonder how long it will be until some moonbat say Navyseals.com is a republican front group. Hehe
57
“How would KC voters know if there vote even counted?”
876,452 of them were. http://tinyurl.com/kf8tr BTW, the correct spelling of the pronoun is “their” not “there.”
“The KCRE is a disgrace and stole the election from Rossi.”
B u l l s h i t ! The Republicans spent $2 million on the best lawyers in the state, and after a 2-week trial, a hand-picked Republican judge in a hand-picked Republican county deducted 4 fraudulent votes from Rossi, and none from Gregoire.
“We also have cases of democrat voter fraud in St Louis, Ohio, Wisconsin, Milwaukee ect ect.”
No, there was a case of tire-slashing in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Those guys were caught, convicted, and sent to jail. Something similar happened here in Renton to a woman with a Kerry sticker on her car, but in that case, the perp got away. http://tinyurl.com/fhobw
“not mailing military ballots”
Are you still trying to float this hoary, debunked, nonsense? All King County military ballots were mailed by Oct. 10. Any soldier who didn’t get his/her ballot could have requested a Federal Write-In Ballot from his/her unit’s Voting Assistance Officer. King County received over 15,000 military/overseas ballots (an 86% turnout, virtually identical to the civilian turnout) and disqualified only 16 of those ballots for arriving too late. It’s possible all 16 of those ballots were cast by overseas civilians, and it’s all possible all 16 were mailed after Election Day. http://tinyurl.com/l4rkr You’re blowing smoke out of your ass. But then … anybody who uses “ACVR” as a source (see below) is a liar.
“There is no credible evidence of the diebold voting machines throwing the election in Ohio, it is all made up.”
The only thing here that’s “made up” is your wingnut bullshit. A formal objection to Ohio’s electors was filed — the first such filing since 1877. A lawsuit (Moss v. Bush) was filed accusing Ken Blackwell and George Bush of election fraud (which the plaintiffs withdrew when the GOP-controlled congress certified Bush’s selection). The Conyers report detailed scores of irregularities, with supporting evidence. The Wikipedia article on the 2004 election controversy says,
“Among the issues raised in 2004 were allegations or complaints regarding obstacles to voter registration, improper purges of voter lists, voter suppression, accuracy and reliability of voting machines (especially electronic voting), problems with absentee ballots and provisional ballots, areas with more votes than signatures of voters in election poll books, and more votes than registered voters and possible partisan interference by voting machine companies and election officials. Although a recount was conducted in Ohio, many of the alleged improprieties (such as long lines or tampering) could not be addressed in a recount.” http://tinyurl.com/5ne9u
In essence, you’re saying all of these allegations — many of them made by prominent public figures — were fabricated out of thin air. Only a crack smoker like you would think so. The adage, “where there’s smoke, there’s fire,” applies here.
“The report by the AVRC has case after case of democratic voter fraud.”
First of all, that’s “ACVR,” not “AVRC.” ACVR has been exposed as a phony GOP front organization, and their “report” is meaningless propaganda. http://tinyurl.com/eqcmq ACVR’s “office” is a 3-inch by 3-inch mailbox at a seedy Dallas strip mall. http://tinyurl.com/h23rz
“Republicans have tried to get mandatory voter ID at the polls in Georgia,Michigan and other states only to be blocked by democrats who say it is discrimatory.”
Damn right it’s discriminatory — the way you guys do it. The GOP also wants to make everyone re-register. Why the fuck should I have to re-register? I’m legally registered. If you’re going to do that, then I think you should have to retake your road test to keep your driver’s license, and let’s make you take a spelling test, too — and if you don’t pass, your GED will be revoked! The same party that sends other people’s kids to die in Iraq, ostensibly to bring democracy to the Iraqi people, works overtime to deny American citizens the right to vote in their own country — and you shill for this bullshit. Shame on you, you unpatriotic fuck.
“There is little to no republican voter fraud.”
WEE HOO HAW HAR HA HA HO HO HEE HE HEHEHEHEHEHEHE …
60
“First Gulf War”
Good enough for me, Mac; that counts.
56 (continued)
While we’re doing bad literature, all you literati may want to check out this web site (you can skip this link, Redneck; the term “literati” isn’t meant to include you):
http://badhemingway.com/hemingway.html
Of course, no “badhemingway” site would be complete without some actual “badhemingway,” and this site does not disappoint. Of course, I can’t possibly quote the whole thing. This excerpt is only meant to give you a taste of the delights the site holds in store for you, should you choose to click on the link and read further.
“A BAD HEMINGWAY STORY
“by a bunch of people
“CHAPTER ONE
“[yh]
“Although the bulls have long cleared the streets, the young men were still sweating and leaping for the amusement of the beautiful spanish women. He walked among them lamenting his own lost youth. The evening quickly fell into clear night and all around the sounds of intoxicated voices wove around him like a school of minnows caught in a strong undertow. He pushed open the door to the closest watering hole and stood at the door for a moment before going in.
“His name was Fred.
“[ah]
“It was a dark cantina. The cantina was dark like the night that falls swiftly during wartime in the Sangre de Cristo mountains. Fred had not thought about the Sangre de Cristo in many years. Maria had been there. Maria and many, many bottles of the sharp, crisp Catenza that the Mexican elders drink in the hot noonday sun.
“Why, thought Fred, were so many of them named Maria?
“[lh]
“Even some of the men were named Maria. And as bitter, worn men with a woman’s name they did what they must. They fought with those that would taunt them.
“For that is what men named Maria must do.”
Need I say more? This is truly entertaining stuff. It proves that writing can be BAD and still be FUN to read. It takes talent to write good garbage. The trollfucks can’t even write bad garbage. Hell, they have trouble writing their own names. They can’t spell their names. It’s because they’re in a dark place. And the reason they use screen names is because they’re all named
Maria.
59
I won’t even bother to reply to you, Dufus, except to ask: Did you bother to read the article you linked to?
“According to the committee’s study … the largest problem in managing military absentee ballots is … what military historians call ‘the tyranny of distance’ – the unavoidable difficulties inherent in getting ballots to our deployed military people serving overseas.”
How is that the fault of local election officials? What control does King County (or Florida) have over the military mail? That’s why Congress enacted a law that allows service personnel to vote via a Federal Write-In Ballot and requires every military unit to have a Voting Assistance Officer. These measures are intended to address precisely that problem.
In the aftermath of the 2004 governor’s election, we heard stuff from righty fucktards like, “How can they vote when they’re in combat?” First of all, nobody in Iraq or Afghanistan is continuously in combat, day and night, for weeks on end. Engagements last minutes, or at most, hours. They have time to eat, shit, sleep, and post on rightwing web sites — so they surely can find time to vote, too. Do ballots get delayed in the military mail system? I’m sure they do. Especially in the case of units on the move, with their mail trying to catch up to them. But isn’t that why we have the Federal Write-In Ballot, so soldiers aren’t prevented from voting by the mail delivery problems inherent to military operations? Do military ballots get lost? I don’t know of any specific proven examples, but it wouldn’t surprise me. Civilian ballots get lost in the domestic mail system, and sometimes by election officials, too.
But all of this “disenfranchisement” is accidental. What I’m talking about is the deliberate, systematic, targeting of voters for disenfranchisement by GOP operatives. That’s illegal, morally wrong, and CHEATING. And you guys do it wholesale, all across the country. It’s merely one of the many foul odors emanating from the criminal enterprise known as the Republican Party. And we’re calling you bastards on it.
ROGER RABBIT BAD HEMINGWAY CONTEST
Here’s how it works. Each poster builds on the existing story. Only literati can post. That doesn’t include you, Redneck. No other unpatriotic, America-hating, Constitution-shredding, fascist wingfucks can participate either. We need to keep this clean. Vulgarity and explicit sex are okay, but rightwing bullshit is banned. Unauthorized contributions will be ignored. There is a prize for the best post. The prize is a blowjob by Mark the Redneck. I’ll get things started:
A Bad Hemingway Story Full of Pathos and Heartbreak
by various members of the HorsesAss Literati
Chapter 1
(rr)
It was a dark and stormy night. Somewhere in the distance a dog barked. Under the moonlight a young man staggered drunk in the dusty street. The dust on his shoes was gray in the moonlight. Nothing else moved in the darkness, except for rabbits in the grass. Rabbits. The grass was always full of rabbits. And the rabbits in the grass were always fucking.
His name was Maria, and he had just come from a Young Republicans meeting. It was as good a reason as any to get drunk. He could think of other reasons to get drunk too. Such as the name his father gave him.
The bastard, he thought. I’m going to kill him for that.
dont forget roger, that they found 1800 illegal votes but they couldnt attribute them definitively, so there will always stand a question mark.
it’s a moot point, it’s over and done with, but there is no doubt of there being a shadow of doubt.
RR, You really need to get off the computer tonight and get laid. “Bad Hemmingway” Night? Sad, but maybe Carl Grossman will play.
And we also now know that Bush probably knew about 9.11 in advance like he did the London terror plot but he decided it would be better for the GOP if he let it happen.
Commentby LeftTurn […………………………………………………………………………….Cynthia “BitchSlap” McKinney, is that you??]
I despise Eyman. I’ve never voted for one of his initiatives and never will. But, first, given that the Secretary of State was operating on the legal advice given by McKenna- how many sheets and signatures on the other three initiatives are invalid if they HAD to have the declaration signed? If the strict adherence to a rule/different interpretation of a rule is good enough for Eyman, it should have applied to all initiatives equally this year.
And, secondly, as tortured as it sounds, Nixon and McKenna are right. The declaration at issue is in a section of law that indicates what has to be printed on the petition. Nothing in that section requires anything to be signed. It might be a “duh- declarations ought to be signed” kind of thing- but “ought to” isn’t “have to” under the law.
Testimony on th original bill, by Rep. McDermott and Pat Thompson of the City and Conty Employees, apparently indicated that the bill “would require the signature gatherers to supply their names so we can go back and check”- but if that was the intent, it is not reflected in the law. When you want to identify people, that identification is normally reqired to be printed legibly and then a signature is given.
Thompson testified similarly in the Senate- it was summarized in th bill report as “Washington law doesn’t require an individual collecting signatures on an initiative or referendum to sign the signature sheets, making it impossible to trace individual petition signature sheets back to the individual who circulated them. Consequently, when there is evidence of signature fraud on the sheets, there is no way to figure out who forged the signatures. This bill just makes it easy to line up the signature gatherer and the sheets he or she turns in.”
Again, nice sentiment, but the bill didn’t do that. All that is even now being claimed in the lawsuit is that some scribble was needed.
But look at the declaration required- a space to possibly insert the name, but no line for a signature. You don’t “sign” a declaration in a space like the one provided.
The problem here is a poorly written bill- a very poorly written bill. Everyone ASSUMED it mean that petition signature gatherers would have to identify themselves, but no one wrote the bill that way. So growl at the ones who screwed up, not the ones who are belatedly breaking the bad news.
I agree with Captain Weird (70) that HB 1222 wasn’t very clearly written. The AG opinion made the same point, although perhaps more diplomatically; I believe “ambiguous” was the adjective used. Even as Joe McDermott and I were saying very different things about the bill during floor debate in the House, nobody stood up and said “whoa, which is it, guys?”. I was talking about the plain language I was reading, and Joe was talking about, well, what I assumed he wished the bill had said and what his bill from the year before had said but didn’t say anymore. Unfortunately, the Senate didn’t fix it, either.
On the other hand, RCW 29A.72.170 lays out very specific reasons for rejection of a petition — if it doesn’t contain mandatory textual elements, has insufficient signatures, or is filed late. Otherwise, it says, the secretary of state “must accept and file the petition” (emphasis added). It says nothing about missing petition circulator signatures. With this “must accept” language there, if Sam Reed had rejected petition forms because the declaration on the back hadn’t been signed, he would have surely been sued for improperly rejecting a petition for something other than the statutory grounds.
I am quite certain that Rep. McDermott will be back in 2007 and work to disambiguate the language. To be meaningful, however, it would need to be more than just mandating the declaration be signed and allowing petition sheets to be rejected if it is not signed. If we’re actually going to be able to prosecute petition circulators who falsify signatures, accepting a form just on the basis of some name being provided and some mark that could be deemed a signature being on the signature line isn’t going to get you anywhere — any circulator who was knowingly falsifying signatures would certainly not fill in their own name or sign with their real signature anyway (and besides, there’s no requirement that petition circulators be Washington residents or registered voters and thus nothing to validate those signatures against). Creating a secure system for ensuring that every signature on a petition is valid and enabling us to hold the right person accountable for invalid signatures could be harder than creating a secure system for voting by mail — and we all know how successful we’ve been at that so far.
Goldy we all know you don’t like Mr. Tim but maybe you might want to change your mind after what the mayor wants to stick the Tax payers in Seattle. After that new Tax increase you will still have to send your daughter to the East Side for school, because there will nothing left for schools. Maybe the Mayor and his friends will charge the tent people a tax for sleeping in a tent under the Alaska Viaduct to share the pain.
Could city impose never-ending tax?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14368609/
Seattle politicians can’t show you a price tag for the massive transportation measure they’re pitching on the fall ballot. But this much is clear: The unprecedented proposal could boost by as much as 34 percent how much the city collects from property owners — nearly six times what current law allows.
And it might be permanent — a first in Seattle for this type of tax increase.
“Voters don’t know the bottom line of this one.
The indefinite tax increase, first proposed by Mayor Greg Nickels, takes advantage of new authority the Legislature gave local governments in 2003. It was intended as a counterpunch to 2001’s Initiative 747.
Earlier this year, a King County judge threw out I-747. But that case is under appeal and state politicians have vowed to ensure it stays on the books.
Before that measure passed, most cities and counties had already begun to rein in their tax increase in the wake of an earlier measure. The 1997 voter-approved law limited overall levy growth to the rate of inflation, but allowed up to 6 percent growth in years of “substantial need.” Unlike other governments, Seattle politicians usually found there was such a need and went for the full 6 percent.
That’s why these days they often talk in terms of what they’ve “lost” to I-747.”
So Goldie: From Posts 70 and 71 looks like another blog flame from you will go up in smoke. I just love it when you ASSUME to know the facts and get corrected by State Representatives. I expect this to be thrown out quickly and let’s see if the initiative signatures are thrown out due to investigative work and not legal technicalities you moonbats love to create as roadblocks!
The 1997 voter-approved law limited overall levy growth to the rate of inflation, but allowed up to 6 percent growth in years of “substantial need.” Unlike other governments, Seattle politicians usually found there was such a need and went for the full 6 percent.
KLake: I want the moonbats to tax themselves into oblivion. When the rich moonbats leave, what will Greg I Don’t Give A Nickels tax next? Curbsides? Trees? Parks?
RR at 65: All elections have errors, either in registration, improper voting, or ballots that don’t get counted for one reason or another. In the past nobody paid that much attention to it, because the error rate was only a fraction of a percentage, and the margin of victory was always considerably more, except for a few relatively obscure local races where only a handful of people voted and nobody really cared about the results anyway. Why spend a lot of money to correct something which didn’t cause a real problem?
But for the past several years the Republicans have been pushing a publicity campaign trying to allege accidental errors are deliberate voter fraud by the Democrats. How do they do that? By (a) picking only Democratic districts to examine, and ignoring the Republican ones which would yeild the same results, and (b) trickling out the stories of errors over time, so that they can get maximum publicicty and get the news media to start referring to the elections office in the targeted district as “trouble-plagued”.
Now why would they do this? What difference does it make, if the district (such as King County) would overwhelmingly vote Democratic in a “perfect” election anyway? Becuase it lays the groundwork for them to engage in concerted, deliberte, voter fraud and get away with it.
By convincing their “base” that the Democrats are trying to steal an election, they are able to wring more money out of them for the next election cycle. Then they can use these same allegations to convince young operatives that its okay for them to engage in illegal election activities, such as in Ohio 2004, because “the other side is already doing it”. Finally, if/when they get caught, they just cloud the issue by bringing up the previous “errors”, claim they were “deliberate”, and keep arguing until the media/public gets tired of the back-and-forth allegations, and the subject gets dropped.
Its a pretty devious tactic, and I must confess it took me a while to realize its full extent. But then, I never considered steeling an election. I thought that’s something we don’t do in this country, that’s something that occurs in some third-world backwater. My ability to be devious doesn’t extend this far.
The GOP has never won an honest election anywhere. They’ve always played these games. It’s just that now, we’re on to them. The question is, will we do anything about it?
The GOP has never won an honest election anywhere. They’ve always played these games. It’s just that now, we’re on to them. The question is, will we do anything about it?
Mike,
Can you try on this jacket for us?
sgmmac,
For my money, the two worst presidents of the past 100 years were Lyin’ Lyndon Johnson & Tricky Dick Nixon. Johnson for the Gulf of Tonkin lie and trying to run the military actions in Nam from his office. You can’t run a military operation from 10,000 miles away. Lyin’ Lyndon had a long history of shennanigans. Just ask the old timers from Cotula, TX about him, and they’ll tell you what a crook he was early in his political career as a congressman.
Trick Dick was a bad prez primarily for not following thru with his ’68 campaign promise to end the Vietnam mess. He kinda forgot about it once he got into office, you see. He drug-out a bad situation, and did a lot to damage the view Americans had of their folks in uniform.
The one thing both these lousy presidents has taught us is that to not get involved in a shooting match unless you have every intention of winning. That’s why Bush should declare victory in Iraq and hit the road. Dragging this thing out any longer is not good for the country.
(BTW, I was in the First Gulf War, too.)
I’m not sticking up for Nixon, but didn’t we start pulling out of Viet Nam while he was President?
Yeah, people have a certain mythology, but the facts are a bit different. Just compare the five years Johnson escalated the war, and the five years that Nixon spent ending it.
How about a comparison of killed in action:
Johnson’s five years:
1964 206
1965 1,863
1966 6,143
1967 11,153
1968 16,592
Nixon’s five years:
1969 11,616
1970 6,081
1971 2,357
1972 641
1973 168
Really DOESN’T fit the mythology, does it?
67
“it’s a moot point, it’s over and done with, but there is no doubt of there being a shadow of doubt.” Commentby karl— 8/15/06@ 11:15 pm
Nothing in the universe is certain beyond a shadow of doubt.
68
Yes, Doktor, I would expect an unlettered and untalented schmuck like you to be jealous.
70
I voted for I-601, and still think its underlying concept is sound. The great majority of people are struggling to make ends meet, and are frustrated by government officials who constantly come back for more, more, more. No matter how much taxes you pay, it’s never enough, and they’ll take everything you have if you don’t say “no!” I do feel politicians must learn to set priorities and live within the taxpayers’ means, instead of promising everything to everybody. One of the things I admire about Governor Gregoire is that she’s one of the few politicians who is self-confident and tough enough to do this.
I also voted for the original car tab initiative, because the car tab tax was arbitrary and abusive. The tax was based on book value no matter what your car was worth. If the book value was $20,000 but the FMV of your vehicle was only $6,000 because of damage, mechanical problems, or high mileage and wear, you were taxed for a $20,000 vehicle. By socking higher value, newer cars for up to $1,000 a year in fees, the car tab tax also encouraged people to keep old wrecks on the road. Finally, you had to pay the tab tax all in one chunk, which created problems for people who aren’t good at budgeting. It was a bad, regressive, and unfair tax that needed to be gone and is best left in the grave. However, Eyman’s obsession with eliminating all the local fees and getting the tabs down to $30 (instead of $45 or $60) is carrying it too far. If we repeal the local fees, we’ll just have to pay it in some other way, because that money is needed by local jurisdictions. And reducing the tab tax from $60 to $30 is not, qualitatively, the same thing as reducing it from $600 or $700 (for the average car) to $30.
Finally, I previously posted on this board that my own legal analysis of the AG’s opinion is that the opinion is not obviously flawed; given the flawed and ambiguous law that emerged from the legislative process, it’s an interpretive problem for the courts to resolve, and I thought it’s 50-50 to go either way.
73
Well klake, a big repair bill is the price taxpayers will pay for years of neglecting the city’s streets, sidewalks, and bridges. When you don’t maintain your car or your health, you get a big mechanic or doctor bill. If Seattle continues to put off these repairs, the bill will get even bigger — or vital infrastructure will fail and the economic loss will be even larger. Nobody builds or maintains infrastructure for amusement; we have to pay for this stuff because it’s essential to the economy.
I read a story in yesterday’s paper about a Green Lake area house that went on the market for $695,000 and sold in one day for $778,000. Obviously there are people living in Seattle (or moving to our city) for whom three quarters of a million dollars is not an insuperable problem. If these folks can shell out that kind of money for a roof at the drop of a hat, then I suspect they can survive a $150 annual property tax increase too.
For some people, such as teachers, cops, waitresses, and that big demographic group of fixed-income folks called retirees, any inflation whatsoever is a threat and hardship, and rising taxes seem like an avoidable kick in the gut. The answer to that is, if you can’t afford to live inside the city limits because of Seattle taxes, move to the burbs where Mayor Nickel’s spending spree won’t affect you. There are lots of places outside the Seattle city limits that are still within comfortable commuting distance of the downtown employment and cultural centers. The housing is cheaper there, too. You pay a third or a half as much for the same house in Renton or Edmonds as you do in the Queen Anne or Capitol Hill neighborhoods.
Maybe this tax increase wouldn’t be necessary if the money spent on a pair of sports palaces costing half a billion apiece had been used for things the city actually needs.
Before I forget … klake is a nazi.
78
Republicans are like communists: They rig voting machines and bully voters because no one would ever elect them in an honest election.
76
“By convincing their ‘base’ that the Democrats are trying to steal an election, they are able to wring more money out of them for the next election cycle.”
It goes far beyond money. By falsely accusing election officials of corruption, by convincing their ‘base’ that the opposition party is stealing elections, they are destroying the trust and consent on which democracy defends and subverting our entire political system. This is the path to civil war and/or totalitarianism, so let’s call it by its right name: Treason.
erratum
“depends” not “defends”
GOP = party of traitors
80
Why did you leave out George W. “I’m Lying When My Lips Are Moving” Bush?
G. W. Bush = Worst.President.Ever
How come nobody has added to the “badhemingway” story yet? Do I have to write the whole thing myself? Literati only, please. That excludes you, Redneck, and all the rest of the unlettered, uneducated, unbathed, and unfucked troll yahoos.
Commentby LeftTurn— 8/16/06@ 7:53 am
“The GOP has never won an honest election anywhere. They’ve always played these games. It’s just that now, we’re on to them. The question is, will we do anything about it?” (my emphasis)
You can’t really believe Reagan’s 49 state victory in 1984 was a dishonest or stolen election. Or the Republicans 54 seat swing in House in 1994 must have been a series of stolen and dishonest elections. Interesting claim.
80
Why did you leave out George W. “I’m Lying When My Lips Are Moving” Bush?
Commentby Roger Rabbit— 8/16/06@ 10:49 am
G. W. Bush = Worst.President.Ever
Commentby Roger Rabbit— 8/16/06@ 10:49 am
======================================
Rog, my opinion is that Lyin’ Lyndon and Tricky Dick were the worst presidents of the past 100 years. Your opinion is that George W. is the worst.
Our opinions combined, plus $1.90 will get you a tall Americano at on one the Forza coffee shops in Tacoma. Nothing anyone says on this blog is coming from the mouth of the Supreme Being, whoever he or she might be.
So, get over yourself, Rabbit. You’re nothing special.
ESHB 1222, which puts something related to a signature gatherer declaration into RCW 29A.72.110–.130, is horribly flawed and certainly difficult to interpret.
If something meaningul were to be put into the law, it should be amended to require that the signature gatherer sign something before a notary under oath, with the proper affidavit language (“sworn to and subscribed before me”), and contain information to identify the signature gatherer with reasonable certainty — printed name, address, date of birth. So that the signature gatherer could be prosecuted if the law is broken, and have the threat of possible prosecution as an additional incentive to conform their behavior to the requirements of the law.
The opinion was written by William B. Collins, who has worked for four different Attorneys General (Gorton, Eikenberry, Gregoire, McKenna) since his admission to the Bar in 1975. Collins held basically the same position (Deputy Solicitor General) under Gregoire as under McKenna. I have great respect for Collins personally, especially since he beat me before the Washington Supreme Court in the case of Pope v. University of Washington, 121 Wn.2d 479 (1993).
A judge could decide this case either way. Collins has some good points, Goldy has some good points, and the lawyers suing Sam Reed’s office over this initiative have some good points.
Or the judge might decide NOT to decide this lawsuit. If I-917 does not have sufficient signatures (which is a strong possibility, given the results of random sampling), then the issue could be considered moot, and the judge can dismiss the present lawsuit on that basis. It is true that the same issue could arise in the future, but it is also true that the legislature could amend the statute in 2007 to make the signature gatherer signature requirement more meaningful.
In any event, this episode shows the need for legislators to write laws that have language that make senses and that has the effect that the legislature intended. Otherwise, it makes the jobs of lawyers and judges after the fact that much more difficult. Or at least this makes judges’ jobs more difficult — lawyers can often be happy for the extra business, especially from clients who can afford to pay.
Some dirt on the initiative people Eyman hangs with
http://proletarianstew.blogspot.com/
Hey, if they didn’t sign them, they didn’t sign them. That’s the law folks. I only hope we see the same vigorous adherence to signatures on forms when it comes to illegal voters trying to rtegister in Wash State as we do on this.
Tim has been doing this long enough to know better. A little humble pie is probably good for him. In my opinion he went awry in his initiatives when he allowed Monty what’s his name to turn it into a religious right crusade machine as well. Initiatives dealing with dollars and sense issues still have much appeal. But when Tim starts off on the morality circuit, that is when I get off the train. I basically told them that after the first time Monty what’s his name sent a letter warning about “God ” being driven from the schools.
Government still confiscates property and levies unfair taxation. But unfortunately things message gets lost when they throw in the moral crusades.
Finally, if Tim paid those gatherers without looking at the signatures, he deserves to lose that money.
Bullshit! She did not win that herself! She tagged along with real lawyers and got some of the profits. But what she DID do all on her own awas to lose a $10 million lawsuit by not filing paperwork on time!
With all the Eyman bashing, Cantwell and Burner touting, in the interest of accuracy the name of this website should be prefixed with “beatingadead”.
95
Republicans sling around hyperbolic election fraud claims, so why can’t our side do the same? Why should you guys have a monopoly on making overheated, hysterical, fictional election fraud claims? Republicans want a monopoly on every fucking thing.
96
“Rog, my opinion is that Lyin’ Lyndon and Tricky Dick were the worst presidents of the past 100 years. Your opinion is that George W. is the worst.” Commentby Libertarian— 8/16/06@ 11:08 am
Not even close. The lying, incompetence, corruption, bullying, and lawbreaking of the GWB administration is unprecedented in this country. You have to look at Russia, Germany, or Uganda to find a parallel.
100
“Bullshit! She did not win that herself! She tagged along with real lawyers and got some of the profits. But what she DID do all on her own awas to lose a $10 million lawsuit by not filing paperwork on time!” Commentby pbj— 8/16/06@ 1:35 pm
Wrong on both counts.
1) Gregoire was the lead negotiator for all of the states, and Washington taxpayers received a $500,000,000 bonus (added to this state’s share of the settlement) for her key role. She was, in fact, the most important lawyer involved in the case and did more than anyone else to bring about the outcome.
2) Gregoire was not personally involved in the OK Boys Ranch case. The tortious acts were committed by DSHS, an independent state agency over which Gregoire had no management control. As attorney general, her office was required by statute to defend DSHS in court. The appeal filing deadline error was committed by a line-level assistant attorney general. There were several layers of management between Gregoire and this attorney, who was disciplined for the error. The only culpability that can be assigned to Gregoire is that, as agency head, she is ultimately responsible and accountable for the performance of the office — as in any other organization.
In addition, it’s not even accurate to say the error cost the state any money, because whether the appeals court would have reduced the judgment is highly speculative. The judgment was awarded to three former residents of the OK Boys Ranch who had been sexually molested by staff and other residents for several years. The jury determined the damage award, and appellate courts do not have a free hand to change verdicts. There is a high standard for setting aside or reducing a jury award. Had the case gone to the appeals court, that court may well have agreed with the plaintiffs that the jury award was appropriate, and let it stand.
I would add to (1) that Gregoire supervised an office of nearly 500 lawyers — the largest law firm in the state — and these kinds of errors also occur in the best and largest private law firms. When you have 500 lawyers handling thousands of cases a year, over the 12 year period of her management, there was bound to be an occasional error. Gregoire was, in fact, ran one of the most competent and error-free AG offices in our state’s history. It’s not an exaggeration to say she was Washington’s best attorney general, ever.
101
“With all the Eyman bashing, Cantwell and Burner touting, in the interest of accuracy the name of this website should be prefixed with ‘beatingadead’.” Commentby ConservativeFirst— 8/16/06@ 2:28 pm
This is a liberal blog, and reading it is a voluntary activity.
21
“Nobbody worried about the damn laws when counting those provisional ballots, the Fatal-Pend ballots of NON-registered people, and let’s not forgot the felon 1600 plus felon voters.
And the dead people, I guess the law doesn’t say you have to be breathing, does it?” Commentby sgmmac— 8/15/06@ 7:35 pm
Knee-jerk ranting from someone who wasn’t there and didn’t see what happened.
Woger Wabbit- you weally go overboard for our former AG- the best ever? I do not recall previous AG’s having to reach a settlements with staff and foist them off on another agency as part of that settlement. You weally need to get wid of the wose-colored glasses and take a look at weality.
Libertarian,
I think JFK was the best President. The peanut farmer the worst – by far.
He decimated the military, he failed to rescue our hostages and thousands and thousands of soldiers were on food stamps in the military. It was very tough times for military families. His voice squeaks, he looks like a religious zealot with his mousey little wife and now he’s just a plain communist. As a retired president – he’s a joke and who takes him seriously besides Castro and Chavez?
My mother believed that Johnson had Kennedy killed.
Log Base Alpha and Log Base Echo!
@107
Roger, you forgot, I went up to King County and saw those ballots……………..
Ugly Stuff indeed.
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Sgm Mac: Rabbit Furless forgets much. He’s a librul loony. You know the ones where yesterday’s librul loony events are forgotten so their small brains can process today’s librul loony events.
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