At EffU, I’ve posted a response to Congressman Brian Baird’s Seattle Times editorial on Iraq.
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Open Thread! “I hate…cripples on buses.” Dan Savage on The Stranger’s blog “Slog” at 8:27 am August 24, 2007 What an asshole! Why does Goldy associate with this war monger who thinks anyone is fair game in his constant efforts to stir shit up and promote himself as America’s favorite cocksucker? Why does Goldy help this asshole promote himself with appearances on his radio show? Read Dan Savage’s “Say Yes To War” piece at link below.
http://www.thestranger.com/sea.....?oid=12237
So “victory” in Iraq looks like this:
– Conditions there get worse and worse, but we stay anyway
– We wait for years, until one side in the civil war kills all the other guys; thousands more Iraqis die, lose their homes, flee the country, or sustain permanent disabling injuries
– We use our troops to force the civil war winner to keep our bases there; remind them we’ll invade again if they get out of line
We win!
It’s like Michael Vick is making our foreign policy.
I do not agree with Lee. Baird is being a statesman. I have written my POV over at SJ. SeattleJew
re 1: People do and say contradictory things. Like, why does Ben Stein salute like a Nazi whenever someone mentions the name of the Jew-baiting Richard Nix666on?
We have got to “stay in there until the job is done”. Precipitous withdrawal would cause chaos and distress.
re 5: What if a rapist said those things?
To the authoritarian cultist Republicans, birth control=abortion. They won’t stop until they take away everyday contraception. Bastards.
Stamn,
You ever blow with John Madrid in Toshiko and Lew’s band?
It’s interesting that this page rates Madrid an 8 and gives Doc Severinsen a 9.
What do you think of Doc?
Stamn,
Check out Eddie Daniels. My oldest son took up the clarinet. I envy him a little – he’s learning to read music. The guitar is nice on that cut. Reminds me of Pat Metheny but I don’t think it’s him.
My youngest will be taking up the trumpet next year.
The Army’s suicide rate is now at its highest level in 23 years. What’s more, in a series of mental health surveys, released in May, 45% of troops ranked morale in their unit as low or very low, as compared to seven percent who ranked it high or very high.
It must be because of how all those authoritarian cultist Republicans support the trops.
Funnny what happens when you ask Iraqis what they think. Wonder why the administration never cites their opinions? Oh, I guess I know…
http://www.globalpolicy.org/se.....lindex.htm
Weird, huh? Who would have thought that having thousands of soldiers from a foreign country cruising down your streets in armored vehicles, killing, torturing, and imprisoning your family members, and raping and murdering your women would get people so upset? This could surely not have been foreseen.
Maybe we should leave and go somewhere where we’re welcome.
Why is the US supporting a coup to replace al-Maliki with (a very UNpopular) Iyad Allawi? Do we WANT al-Sadr to eventually take over? Who are these idiots?
#8 YLB says:
John was a great lead player. Played along side him in quite a few big bands, can’t remember playing with him in toshiko/tabakin. Surprisingly, he’s one of the few local players I never took lessons from.
Doc is a great player, saw him at the last NAMM show. In my opinion, he was a little bit on the less gifted on the musical side (soulless), but he had major control of the horn. I considered him more of a soloist as opposed to a jazzer. Went to the tonight show many times just to watch/learn and listen.
Not sure taking up trumpet is the best career choice, keyboard maybe? But a musical education is always a good thing.
#10 Daddy Love says:
I read the book “Lone Survivor” on the plane a couple days ago, if his experience is any indication, it’s because of the democrats/liberals that morale is down.
Get the book and read it. It’s the NY times #1 bestseller.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08.....9seal.html
@7 No, they won’t stop until they’ve packed the courts with “judges” (i.e., recent graduates from Liberty University “law” school) who think it’s constitutional for cops to peer in your bedroom window (without notice, hearing, or search warrant) to make SURE you’re not using contraceptives.
@10 Yeah, and those guys (i.e., Republicans and their pet trolls) want us to believe that soldiers vote for them! With morale in the toilet and desertions in the thousands, the only way soldiers would vote for these bastards is if the officers line them up and threaten to shoot them on the spot if they don’t mark their ballots “correctly”. Just like in the Russian Army.
Looks like we lost the Cold War. We now have Trotskyites running our government.
@15 “it’s because of the democrats/liberals that morale is down”
Typical wingnut reasoning.
ROGER RABBIT POLL
Who’s fault is it that morale in the military is in the toilet?
[ ] A. The guys running the military
[ ] B. The guys not running the military
erratum
Whose not who’s
Not sure taking up trumpet is the best career choice, keyboard maybe? But a musical education is always a good thing.
Yeah, I believe music should be a part of every kid’s education even if it’s just singing or drumming.
I don’t expect my kids to make a career out of music but I hope music will always be there for them in some fashion. If they spend their adult leisure hours working through a score with their instrument rather than watching tv or playing video games, I know I’ll have done my job as a parent.
Anbar province. How often have we heard our local wingers refer to it as positive proof of the Wisdom of our Revered Leader, that US efforts have turned local leaders to Our Side, and a sign that Victory is at Hand in Iraq.
As always, there’s not much truth to it.
You know, or even if you don’t, that the New York Times reported back in April that the locals began turning on the local Al Qaeda in Iraq (AQI) the previous September, when the locals decided all on their own to form the Anbar Salvation Council, which then came to the Americans for support.
But here’s the money quote:
What is happening in Anbar is good for us and good for the Iraqis, of course. But you know what? I has nothing to do with Bush’s escalation. Besides that, it seems pretty unlikely to happen outside of homogeneous Sunni areas.
And of course, once we finish arming and training the local Sunni forces in Anbar, they will pretty surely turn against both us and the Shiite central government as soon as they’ve finished off AQI. Get it?
Next: why the Joint Chiefs want to withdraw troops from Iraq and why GW Bush will once again refuse to listen to his generals.
The only way to get Baird to listen to the majority is for the majority to stop voting for people like him. I urge all anti war folks from both parties to vote for Ron Paul in the Republican Primary. He is the only presidential candidate that has been consistantly opposed to the iraq war and torture and the drug war and the Patriot act from both parties (well maybe a kucinich too, but Paul has a chance!). In WA the democrats do not listen to the primary anyhow so you should vote in the Republican primary so that your vote counts. If all Democrats voted in the republican primary Paul would easily win, Heck he is winning straw polls in this state already with out Democrats support.
Why should Dems do this? Because with Paul winning the Republican nomination, the Democrats could no longer afford to slip back to their pro war ways during the general election! We have to keep them honest, the way to do it is to scare the hell out of them at the ballot box!
#15 Roger Rabbit says:
Did you read the book Lone Survivor? What books have you read written by a veteran of the war on terror that says otherwise.
(No need to list them alphabetically)
#22 YLB says:
I knew it wouldn’t be too long until you started showing your conservative beliefs. :)
Roger Rabbit says:
@10 Yeah, and those guys (i.e., Republicans and their pet trolls) want us to believe that soldiers vote for them! With morale in the toilet and desertions in the thousands, the only way soldiers would vote for these bastards is if the officers line them up and threaten to shoot them on the spot if they don’t mark their ballots “correctly”. Just like in the Russian Army.
08/25/2007 at 10:07 am
The military vote will always be ours. Why in the hell do you think a soldier would ever vote for a democrat? A soldier is 180 degrees counter to everything a donk stands for. You dems will never change that. The military will always vote overwhelmingly repub, it’s in their nature.
Once again, with the dismal performance of the democrat led congress the democrats are turning on themselves.
“Florida lawmakers angrily assailed the Democratic National Committee and its chairman, Howard Dean, saying he is threatening to “disenfranchise” the state’s voters”
“In a conference call with reporters yesterday, Sen. Bill Nelson (D-Fla.) said the DNC “is poised to assault the basic right of a person to vote at its meeting tomorrow.” He threatened to sue the national party to prevent the sanctions from being imposed.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....s_politics
You Tube Video Exposes ‘Protesters’ As Cops
During a Bush visit to Montreal earlier this week, anti-war demonstrators filmed three men wearing masks — and police boots. One of them was clutching a rock. Canadian authorities admitted these guys were undercover cops but denied they tried to incite violence and rejected public demands for an investigation of the incident.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.c.....ada25.html
Today’s champion letter-to-the-editor writer is Charlie Bird of Sammamish, who wrote:
“So here comes George Bush telling us we could have won in Vietnam …. Gotta give props to Bush for being right about one thing: If we’d stayed in Vietnam ’til we achieved victory, we wouldn’t be in Iraq today. We’d still be in Vietnam.”
http://seattletimes.nwsource.c.....ets25.html
Republican = someone who lives in another reality
@27 “The military vote will always be ours.”
What a laugh! You don’t even know who the soldiers vote for. No one does. Why? Because (a) soldiers vote on a secret ballot like everyone else, and (b) the military prohibits political polling of troops. So, all the conjecture about who soldiers vote for is based on anecdotal evidence. You trolls dig up a couple guys who are flaming wingnuts like you and then claim they represent all the soldiers … not!!!
If the Republican National Committee felt as certain as you do that soldiers vote for Republicans, why did they spend millions of dollars to keep soldiers from voting?
#1 Dick says:
Maybe because Goldy isn’t afraid of an opposing viewpoint?
Maybe because Goldy is fair and balanced?
Maybe because Goldy is not homophobic like you and sees nothing wrong with cocksuckers?
A boycott by the major Democratic candidates forced the cancellation of a presidential debate sponsored by the Congressional Black Caucus. Democrats also are skipping a debate hosted by an Indian tribe in California.
It’s all part of a new, more honest approach to minorities under the slogan: “Of course we take you for granted: It’s not like you’re going to vote Republican.”
@28 As Paul Harvey would say, here’s the rest of the story:
“Republican National Committee (RNC) officials said they also are planning to enforce their rules, which allow them to take delegates away from states that hold primaries before Feb. 5 without permission.”
http://seattletimes.nwsource.c.....ary25.html
@28 (continued) Care to explain your selective editing, Stamn?
Thought you had a scoop, didn’t ya?
Your editor, Roger Rabbit, just informed your readers that the RNC is doing EXACTLY THE SAME THING the DNC is doing!
Don’t worry, Stamn, Editor Roger Rabbit is on the job to correct your slopping reporting.
sloppy
@36 Roger Rabbit says:
I learned from reading the new york times. If it’s good enough for a liberal rag, it’s good enough for me.
#37 Roger Rabbit says:
Come on now rabbit, don’t go bragging about yourself.
your conservative beliefs
Stamn, let me be clear. I do NOT self-identify as a conservative. The liberalism that I champion proposes solutions that WORK for all people as opposed to ideologies which in practice has served as a trojan horse for the agenda of concentrating money and power into fewer and fewer hands.
The purpose of post WWII conservatism in this country has always been to roll back the New Deal. It was initially funded by family owned manufacturers like the Kohlers and the Millikens who were initially driven by hatred of unions.
A decent parent has only one job and that’s to make available to their kids the skills and opportunities they’ll need to make their way in the world. The politics of the parents should have nothing to do with that. Ideally, parents would always allow their kids to form their own political views and not try to influence them beyond making sure they understand other views as best as possible.
36 RR
Stamn (or whoever he/she/it is) ALWAYS selectively and misleadingly quotes to make all-but-unrelated points.
You notice how he left out that the Dem debate boycott was a boycott of Fox News. Weird how a little thing like that might escape his attention.
courtesy LA Times:
Step 1: In 1975, the Vietnam War ended and young Osama bin Laden, age 18, saw that the mighty U.S. could be brought low and that an unhappy citizenry could push a democratically elected government to end an unpopular war.
Step 2: Hmm. This step is a little tougher. Al Qaeda attacked the U.S. on 9/11. Then Bin Laden, bearing the U.S. withdrawal from Vietnam constantly in mind, um . . . somehow tricked us into going to war in Iraq . . . where Al Qaeda had no presence prior to the U.S. invasion . . . because he knew we’d make a mess of things . . . and that Al Qaeda could move in while we were bogged down fighting insurgents . . . and bog us down even more?
Something like that.
And from there, we easily reach Step 3: We are stuck in a quagmire in Iraq, just as in Vietnam! Millions of civilians are paying the price for U.S. over-reaching — just as in Vietnam! Our credibility is suffering — just as in Vietnam! The American public has lost faith in the war — just as in Vietnam! Bin Laden is happy to see us brought low — just as in Vietnam! If we leave, more bad things may happen, and Bin Laden will also be happy — just as in Vietnam!
Step 4. Therefore, as the president explained Wednesday, we must stay in Iraq forever, until every last terrorist or every last Iraqi civilian is dead, whichever comes first.
http://www.latimes.com/news/op.....ion-center
If the Republican National Committee felt as certain as you do that soldiers vote for Republicans, why did they spend millions of dollars to keep soldiers from voting?
Because that is a made up lie. You can tell both parties know which way the military vote will fall by their actions. Gore in 2000 is a perfect example of how dems shriek in horror when forced to count legitimate over seas (mainly military) ballots. There is all the proof you need.
Oops, another democrat in trouble for illegal contributions for john edwards-
“Attorney Geoffrey Fieger and one of his law partners have been indicted by the U.S. government, which accused the pair of making $127,000 in illegal campaign contributions to the 2004 presidential campaign of John Edwards.”
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.....005/NEWS03
Of course, he blames it on bush for targeting democrats. Typical democrat, blame others when caught.
40 YLB
How can you not nderstand this? Conservatives are people who love their children, provide for them, and help guide them into life. Liberals hate their children and try to destroy them. Didn’t you know that?
Here, you should read this: All I Really Need To Know I Learned From Fox News, by Marvin Stamn. It’s available from Regnery Press.
Yes, we all know that the Justice Department and the few remaining US Attorneys would never put political considerations above public ones, or prosecute Democrats for electoral advantage.
Boy, 2008 is gonna be a slugfest. Bring it on, assholes.
Anytime the dems want the active military to elect the next president I am game. Just as long as you cheating donks are not counting the votes. You dems would be lucky to get the same percentage as approval rating of the democrat congress. Hehehehehe
#40 YLB says:
your conservative beliefs
A decent parent has only one job and that’s to make available to their kids the skills and opportunities they’ll need to make their way in the world.
I agree, it’s the responsibility of the parent to do that for their child. It’s not up to the village(government) to raise the child. It’s the fact you were taking the responsibility instead of depending on the government to do it for you that I commend you. If more parents were like you the country would be a better place.
#41 Daddy Love says:
Do you hold democrat/liberal posters to the same standard? Of course not.
Why are the democrats afraid of fox news, afraid of answering real questions? If I were you I’d be calling for the democrats not to run scared, after all, if they can’t stand up to fox news how in the hell could they stand up to a terrorist. This is why the democrats the earned the “soft” label.
#47 Daddy Love says:
Those with opposing views are assholes. How tolerant, NOT!
What bothers me about Lee’s post is the prospect of intra-democrat argument harming our ability to elect a president and then making it possible for her or him to run the country.
Baird’s POV is worth debate. I have tried to summarize the sides of the debate from a Bushism free POV. Fuck Bush. The only issues around this failure are how tom minimize the damage he has done. We need realistic debate, not a Bolshevik -light rule by he leaders or most vocal folks form Bloggerdom.
The argument is to long for a repost here, so please check out this link.
What DO the “troops” really think? Hmmm…how can we possibly know?
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08.....38;emc=rss
I’m not fucking tolerant. I’m INtolerant of the assholes who are ruining my country. Strap on your gear, pal. This is gonna hurt a little…
#45 Daddy Love says:
I didn’t say liberals hate their children, but since you’re a liberal you would know better than I. I feel sorry for the children, maybe that’s why liberals feel government prograams are so needed.
Thanks for the promo. I’m hoping to make the billionaires club this year. After all, conservative books sell better than liberal books, go figure.
It’s funny, I’ve never used a fox link, or anything from what you would consider an extreme-right website yet you keep trying to say I’m a tool of fox news.
#54 Daddy Love says:
It’s not your country, it’s OUR country. Different viewpoints are allowed. Just think, if your party didn’t put up john kerry, maybe things would be better now. And considering that hillary is going to be your nomination it’s hard to believe that you really want things to change wen it’s only going to be more of the same old same old.
It’s gonna hurt? Whatever.
“I don’t see any progress. Just us getting killed,” said Spc. Yvenson Tertulien, one of those in the dining hall in Yousifiya, 10 miles south of Baghdad, as Bush’s speech aired last month. “I don’t want to be here anymore.”
http://www.latimes.com/news/na.....ome-center
#53 Daddy Love says:
Are you even capable of using a link that isn’t left leaning? I’m surprised you aren’t linking to the Pvt. Scott Thomas Beauchamp stories at the new republic.
#57 Daddy Love says:
Another left leaning link. Is this the best you got? Can’t you do any better? Even I don’t have to rely on right leaning websites for my links.
@39 Are you too stupid to recognize a typo correction when you see one?
@41 Stamn smells like a professional troll — one of those boiler-room guys the pukes pay minimum wage to post canned talking points on targeted blogs.
Who are these traitors?
Oh, that’s right, it’s from the NIE (http://www.foxnews.com/project.....IE_KJs.pdf). Why does the intelligence commmunity hate the troops?
Yeah, sure, like I am going to stop citing internationally renowned reporting organizations because some dicklicker calls them “left-leaning.” Accept it or don’t.
@43 “Because that is a made up lie.”
Sorry, Dufus, but Greg Palast and the BBC caught the RNC and Tim Griffin dead to rights; and the U.S. Attorney scandal is all about protecting Rove, Gonzo, and their minions from prosecution for running an illegal voter suppression scheme.
“The Republican National Committee has a special offer for African-American soldiers: Go to Baghdad, lose your vote.
“A confidential campaign directed by GOP party chiefs in October 2004 sought to challenge the ballots of tens of thousands of voters in the last presidential election, virtually all of them cast by residents of Black-majority precincts.
“Files from the secret vote-blocking campaign were obtained by BBC Television Newsnight, London. They were attached to emails accidentally sent by Republican operatives to a non-party website.
“One group of voters wrongly identified by the Republicans as registering to vote from false addresses: servicemen and women sent overseas.
“Here’s how the scheme worked: The RNC mailed these voters letters in envelopes marked, ‘Do not forward’, to be returned to the sender. These letters were mailed to servicemen and women, some stationed overseas, to their US home addresses. The letters then returned to the Bush-Cheney campaign as ‘undeliverable.’ The lists of soldiers of ‘undeliverable’ letters were transmitted from state headquarters … to the RNC in Washington. The party could then challenge the voters’ registration and thereby prevent their absentee ballots being counted.
“One target list was comprised exclusively of voters registered at the Jacksonville, Florida, Naval Air Station. … [See this scrub sheet at http://flickr.com/photo_zoom.g.....038;size=o ] …
“A soldier returning home in time to vote in November 2004 could also be challenged on the basis of the returned envelope. Soldiers challenged would be required to vote by ‘provisional’ ballot. Over one million provisional ballots cast in the 2004 race were never counted; over half a million absentee ballots were also rejected. The extraordinary rise in the number of rejected ballots was the result of the widespread multi-state voter challenge campaign by the Republican Party. …
“The BBC obtained several dozen confidential emails sent by the Republican’s national Research Director and Deputy Communications chief, Tim Griffin to GOP Florida campaign chairman Brett Doster and other party leaders. Attached were spreadsheets marked, ‘Caging.xls.’ Each of these contained several hundred to a few thousand voters and their addresses. A check of the demographics of the addresses on the ‘caging lists,’ as the GOP leaders called them indicated that most were in African-American majority zip codes.
“Ion Sanco, the non-partisan elections supervisor of Leon County (Tallahassee) when shown the lists by this reporter said: ‘The only thing I can think of – African American voters listed like this – these might be individuals that will be challenged if they attempted to vote on Election Day.’ …
“The Republican National Committee in Washington refused our several requests to respond to the BBC discovery. … The party has refused to say why it would mark soldiers as having ‘bad addresses’ subject to challenge when they had been assigned abroad. … Setting up such a challenge list would be a crime under federal law. … While the party insisted the lists were not created for the purpose to challenge Black voters, the GOP ultimately offered no other explanation for the mailings. …
“Soldiers sending in their ballot from abroad would not know their vote was lost because of a challenge.”
Quoted under Fair Use; for complete article and/or copyright info see http://tinyurl.com/jv9nf
@43 (continued)
Wingnut Instruction Manual #28: “When caught lying, tell another lie.”
If more parents were like you the country would be a better place.
Stamn, my kids attend an elementary school here in Seattle whose community of parents and teachers are so liberal that any right-wing conservative would run away from there screaming – and believe me I witnessed a few that did exactly that.
Almost all parents there believe in raising their kids as I do. The very few that don’t are probably the ones I never see but I can’t be sure of that.
@44 Given the Bush administration’s penchant for political prosecutions, I’ll reserve judgment on this one until the jury verdict is in.
In the meantime, I think it’s safe to say there are literally thousands of Republicans who did exactly what this guy is charged with a federal crime for — giving more than $2,000 to a candidate — including each and every attendee at Reichert’s $10,000-per-person fundraiser on Monday.
Stamn: If it’s wrong for a Democratic attorney to give more than $2,000 to Edwards, why is it okay for Republicans to give $10,000 to Reichert?
There’s no end to these guys’ hypocrisy … it’s infinite.
@48 “Anytime the dems want the active military to elect the next president I am game.”
You have more faith in soldier votes than the RNC does.
@50 “Do you hold democrat/liberal posters to the same standard? Of course not.”
This is a liberal blog. If you don’t like the way you’re treated here, go post on a wingnut circle-jerk where you’ll be more appreciated.
“Why are the democrats … afraid of answering real questions?”
If you ever ask one, we’ll answer it.
@50 “if they can’t stand up to fox news how in the hell could they stand up to a terrorist. This is why the democrats the earned the ‘soft’ label.”
Bwaaaahaaaaahaaahaahaha!!! I’ll bet you’re not posting on a laptop in a barracks tent in Baghdad, are ya, Stamn? Those are mighty big words from a shill for a party whose leading politicans ran away from military service as far as their legs could carry them. You guys are clowns …
HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR
HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR
HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR
@51 Whooooohooooooo! A wingnut complaining about intolerance is like Ted Bundy complaining about crime.
@55 Get your bumper stickers now while supplies last!
Democrats treat dogs like people.
Republicans treat people like dogs.
@58 “Are you even capable of using a link that isn’t left leaning?”
Ahhh, the old tried-and-true wingnut “but-but-but” response!
@58 You lose, Stamn. Thanks for playing.
#63 Daddy Love says:
Is it because of their obvious bias their subscription rates are dropping faster than john edwards in the polls?
I’ve noticed you and a lot of your buddies on line use dicklicker and c**ksucker a lot as an insult. Is that because you are homophobic and would consider it an insult if someone called you that? Oh well, it’s your problem not mine.
#68 Roger Rabbit says:
Just as wrong. Fine them, put them in jail, whatever.
oops I was trying to link folks to the Blogaction site. Ther eis a usable link at SeattleJew
OZh, did I say “dicicker?” I meant “dicklicker who consistently miquotes and draws unsupported and often unrelated conclusions.” Did you know that if you DID use right-wing sites they’d do all that work FOR you?
@59
It really makes arguing easier when you can just dismiss every source as “left-wing bias”.
You know, they can make fake testicles for people who don’t have them…
#68 Roger Rabbit says:
Your post in #67 mentioned fundraisers. They must be under a different law because ALL politicians (including bush & clinton) have raised big bucks from fundraising dinners.
Are you even capable of using a link that isn’t left leaning? I’m surprised you aren’t linking to the Pvt. Scott Thomas Beauchamp stories at the new republic.
If all of Beauchamp’s stories are fabricated, then how come the Army is trying so hard to prevent TNR from talking with him?
Logic much?
#82 Lee says:
Are you saying that the los angeles times and the new york times don’t lean left?
Glad to hear about the fake testicles, no doubt it will help a lot of people that suffered from testicular cancer.
@85
Are you saying that the los angeles times and the new york times don’t lean left?
Yes. In the conventional way of looking at left vs. right as being a labor vs. big business construct, very few major newspapers have a left-leaning bias. The Seattle Times actually leans to the right on this particular axis.
Glad to hear about the fake testicles, no doubt it will help a lot of people that suffered from testicular cancer.
Is that the reason you don’t have any? Or is it because you’re a gigantic pussy who can’t argue things without always dismissing inconvenient facts as left-wing bias?
@85 Stamn
The weird notion that the NY Time sis a “left” paper is an example of Rovian manipulation of reality. Rove.Atwater and their Bushista followers have found an amazing way of implementing Newspeak.
Goldwater said, “Extremisim in the defenc eof libery is no vice.”
The Rovers took this true, conservative idea and moved reality so that their stands were no longer extremist while moderate stands were.
The reaosn the Rovian Right can complain that the MSM are “liberal” is because their own stnds are extemist. By their standards it is liberal to:
a. accept the scientific consensus on global warming.
b. insist on the reality of evolution
c. insist that there is no free lunch, you makeawar you gotta payforawar!
d. american health care is in trouble.
e. Gay folks are human.
f. Bush is an intellectually impaired president
sad.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200.....g_the_dead
Oh, but Yahoo news is all “left-leaning” and shit. Better not believe it.
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/18927.html
But…but…our government wouldn’t lie to us. I won’t believe it; I won’t! Look, my fingers are in my ears and I’m singing! “LA LA LA LA LA LA!” I don’t hear anything.
Besides, McClatchy is left leaning! The NIE is left-leaning! General Peter Pace is left-leaning! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! I feel fine…
#84 Lee says:
This was debunked quicker than dan rather and his fake documents. Are you that far behind the news?
@90 “This was debunked quicker than dan rather and his fake documents.”
The problem with this statement is that the documents in question weren’t debunked, they simply weren’t verified. And, even if they are reproductions, it so happens the good colonel’s former secretary stated their contents are true.
Thanks for playing, Marvin. You lose … again.
“During the Killian documents controversy in 2004, the authenticity of the documents … was challenged by a variety of individuals and groups. Proof of authenticity is likely impossible without original documents ….
“Killian’s secretary at the time, Marian Carr Knox, stated, ‘We did discuss Bush’s conduct and it was a problem Killian was concerned about. I think he was writing the memos so there would be some record that he was aware of what was going on and what he had done.’ Although she believed the content of the memos was accurate, she … did not type the memos CBS had obtained ….”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K.....ity_issues
Thus, while there is a general consensus that the Killian memos were not authenticated, Killian’s secretary vouched for their content.
The real story, of course, was whether the content was true, not whether memos were authentic. But instead of reporting on that story, the rightwing-biased media focused on the physical pieces of paper.
91-92
Correct you are, Roger. It turns out that EVERY theory regarding the supposed “forgery” of the CBS Killian documents put forward by right-wing bloggers was…well, how to put this? “Wrong in every way.”
Ultimately, CBS, who should have been a lot more careful with such an inflammatory issue, admitted that they could not verify the authenticity of the documents. They may or may not be authentic, but it could not be verified EITHER WAY. However, the content of those documents is not even in question.
Now, this has not stopped the right wing from endlessly congratlating themselves for their role in incorrectly putting forward a number of wrongheaded theories abou them. But what’s new, you know? I mean, we had some idiot in here the other day telling us about Vince Foster and Ron Brown’s “hole in his kull.”
@43 “Because that is a made up lie.”
Sorry, Dufus, but Greg Palast
Stop right there. You already lost. Greg Palast is the biggest liberal whore on the grand Daddy of liberal whore networks the BBC. Nice try.
Correct you are, Roger. It turns out that EVERY theory regarding the supposed “forgery” of the CBS Killian documents put forward by right-wing bloggers was…well, how to put this? “Wrong in every way.”
Ultimately, CBS, who should have been a lot more careful with such an inflammatory issue
Nah, you libs just got caught. It’s hard being a liberal,lying lefty journalist these days.
@90 Rather’s documents were not faked. I actually have additional information. One of the major arguements is that they were typd on a selectric and the military supposedly did not have selctrics at that time. This is not true. I wa sin the USN and used one every day.
Moreover, the substance of Rather’s claims were all confirmed. BushII was ^legally a deserter. In his defense, he was nto alone .. there were others. But few of them spent 1 million dollars getting trained only not to show up for what was plum nice duty.
Rovism: A mistatement of fact, an untruth used to cover some other unpleasant political fact.
Rove to Receive Largest Fess Ever for Movie Script
(SJ News April 1, 2010)
Sony pictures head, Clarence Thomas, and former Bush aide , Karl Rove, held a news conference today to announce that Columbia would produce the movie version of Rove’s soon to be released, “There’s a Republican Born (Again) Every Day.”
This tell tale, already leaked by the Wall Street Journal,.describes how Rove was influenced by Soviet era policies of disinformation.
Rumors that Rove had formal training by the KGB were denied by Rove spokesman Vladimir Ulyanov.
Mel Gibson has reportedly agreed to write the screenplay.
Aw, Dan, don’t be bitter. I take that back. Do be bitter. Be very, very bitter. But I don’t have to tell you that, do I?
The truth is STILL the the documents are not authenticated but not forgeries. Live with it, amigo.
@97 and Rather
BUT… once again Rove suceeed. He roved the issue, that is switched attention form a real issue .. Bush’s status as a deserter, at least technically oif not legally.
To Rove: to switch topics by attacking an irrelvant issue on your opponents side.
#98SeattleJew says:
Of course they weren’t fake, wink wink. He just happened to retire because they were real and he felt bad for outing bush.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rathergate
#92 Roger Rabbit says:
The truth comes out-
Subsequently, a number of expert forensic document examiners concluded that the six memos are almost certainly forgeries.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rathergate
All uber Marvin Stamn ..
go to this guys website. His politics are puerile but he blows a wonderful trumpet! As I type this I am listening to an MP3. Marvin Stamn on the Trumpet /a>
By thew way ..
I enjoyed this enuff to buy three CDs. Wish the guy were a better thinker, but his trumpet is cool. I’ll hae it on my Ipod at DL if anyone wnats to hear him.
101 – Some of America’s greatest gifts to the world: baseball and jazz music.
The greatest arguably is the U.S. Constitution. Too bad the Republicans are stomping all over it right now.
@99 Stamm?
No .. to the best of anyone’s knowledge they were not fake, but Rather could not prove it. What is more important is that the facts about GW Bush’s military service got roved.
Look, from your trunpet playing (I am still listening) you MUST be brighter than you seem. I do not approve of roving on any side. Unfortunately, there has been a history of this sort of thing since WWII and to the best of my knowledge it is always a GOP agent who plays these sour notes.
McCarthy
Nixon
Bush I
Bush II
Somehow rovism has become a tradion in the GOP. If there has been any democratic equivalent, I do not see it.
100 MS
Ah, memories…
It seems like only yesterday you were castigating me for linking to Wikipedia to further a point. Wait a minute, it WAS just yesterday. Boy, you sure are a fucking hypocrite. Oh, and a liar. I am sure you agree with my conclusion.
104 SJ
No, he is not brighter than he seems.
Waste, Fraud, and Abuse
Waste of taxpayers’ money
Fraud by Iraq reconstruction contractors
Abuse of whistleblowers
Read the shocking story here: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20430153/
Finish reading it? Now think about this: A Navy veteran who contacts an FBI agent in Chicago to report corruption in Iraq ends up hooded, handcuffed, and interrogated in a cell in Baghdad! Who has the power to do such a thing? Certainly not some low-level Halliburton employee.
This corruption goes very, very, very high up. It involves very, very, very powerful people. Think about it.
then again, maybe Wikipedia isn’t so bad….
@94
“Stop right there.”
No, I won’t.
“You already lost.”
No, I haven’t.
“Greg Palast is the biggest liberal whore”
No, he isn’t.
“on the grand Daddy of liberal whore networks the BBC.”
No, it isn’t.
“Nice try.”
Sorry, Dufus, but it’s MUCH MORE than a “nice try” as you so inaptly put it. It’s a documented story by a reputable journalist reported by the world’s most respected media organization.
You lose, Dufus. Thanks for playing.
It doesn’t matter how much the wingnuts lie, deny, and cry about the Rather story. Bush was a chickenshit sandbagger too yellow to go to Vietnam and everyone in America knows it. Hell, the whole world knows it.
#101 SeattleJew says:
Sorry you missed my post on the other thread. I only used the name, I’m not the marvin stamn in new york. I “stole” his name because he was one of my idols growing up.
(Hopefully headless lucy hasn’t called and him and made a bigger ass out of herself)
@100 Self-serving speculation.
BTW I don’t remember seeing Bush fly over my foxhole in Nam. Nope, I don’t think he was there … I would’ve remembered it.
@103 The great flaw of the Constitution is there’s no way to enforce it, short of citizens rising up with pitchforks.
@108 Well it’s true anyone can write to Wikipedia — including people who don’t know what they’re talking about, and also including (as we learned this month) the CIA, FBI, and other people with agendas — but the premise of Wikipedia is that cream rises to the top and shit sinks; and, on the whole, it seems to work pretty well. It’s somewhat amazing the Wikipedia article on the Killian affair isn’t more tainted by wingnuttery than it is.
#104 SeattleJew says:
I’m not commenting on did bush/clinton/rich people avoid the draft, of course those that could did.
From what I’ve seen, the documents are fake. The biggest give away is the non-monospaced font used on the document. Old typewriters type in monospacing, computers proportional spacing. Meaning, on typewriters each letter has the same space as another letter, the space for the “W” is as wide as the space for the “I.” In proportional spacing, the “I” gets less space than the “W.” The document was “typed” in proportional spacing, so either it was typeset (as in a published book) or typed much more recently than the date indicated.
There’s an animated gif on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rathergate showing how the pre 1973 document compares to a 2004 microsoft word document. It doesn’t take a genius to figure out the document wasn’t from the early 70’s.
#105 Daddy Love says:
I know, it does make me look a bit of a hypocrite. But after your explanation about links I figured what’s good for the goose is good for the gander.
I’m not sure I’ve lied. I might of omitted words from links but I certainly didn’t make anything up. Clinton was impeached. Fact. Bush won’t be. Fact. Where’s the lie?
116 MS
Jesus fucking Christ, MS. Read your own cite:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K.....ity_issues
non-monospaced my ass. Lots of contemporaneous (that means: “or the time”) equipment could do that, and the Word comparison is spurious.
116 MS
you use the same old, same old arguments without even knowing how they’ve been disproven over time.
Do you fucking wingnuts EVER come up with a new bit? or is the theory that repeating the same tired old saws is the way to the peoples’ true hearts? I gotta tell ya, I think not.
I read the book “Lone Survivor” on the plane a couple days ago, if his experience is any indication, it’s because of the democrats/liberals that morale is down.
Here’s a review off Amazon:
You’re so easily taken in Stamn.
@116
Sorry, the text was types with a selectric and that machine could do proportional spacing.
BUT, the issue remains the same. Bush deserted, he went AWOL. He did get away with it, but the facts remian the same.
No democrat achieved this.
@111
You have an odd way of honoring the fellow. Seems pretty unfair to me. For all I know you can not play the radio.
I mean, there’s just never any admission that reality has intervened with these guys.
in their world, Vince Foster was still murdered by Hillary (rejected by two inedpendent prosecutors),Hilary iss still a suspect in the so-called “FileGate” (no evidence, said Robert Ray), Kerry lied about being in Cambodia on a swift boat at Christmas 30 years ago (turned out it was a week or two later–weird, huh?), Kerry shot himself to get a Purple Heart (or so said his doctor–no wait, his doctor said the opposite), dead and double voters voted for gregoire( oh,m that was Rossi they voted for), and so on ad nauseam.
same old discredited stories repeated again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again.
It’s just one reason we love you guys.
#122 SeattleJew says:
Because I “kinda” used his name it’s unfair?
Yup, you’re right, I can’t play the radio. Damn, you liberals are so damn smart it’s amazing. But like you said, for all you know.
124 MS
Ooh, you really got him there. You’re my hero.
#123
I almost glossed over this. The memory that was seared into his brain that he told over and over for 30+ years wasn’t true. Shocking. Considering he was there, at the time it happened and the place it happened, how could it be anything but a lie.
Why can’t you admit he lied after telling the story for so many years and he got caught?
Why is it that when chariman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff General Peter Pace and Army Chief of Staff General Geroge Casey recommend a fairly steep, rapid drawdown of troops in Iraq our local winguts don’t see it that way?
Don’t they “listen to the generals?”
Losers.
123
Then again, can’t you admit the truth that he was there within a week or two of that time?
You know, because he, like, was.
Hmmm…I think on balance YOU’RE full of shit…
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/new...../wus13.xml
And of course you make my point again even more clearly—you guys stick to the same old, same old discredited bullshit NO MATTER WHAT THE FACTS HAVE BEEN SHOWN TO BE.
You’re a pip.
MS
You’re full of shit–but what’s new?
#128 Daddy Love says:
Of course he was there weeks later than he originally said he was there.
Where’s your admission the story that was seared (his word) into his memory that he told for years was a lie? Can’t bring yourself to saying a democrat lied can you? You know, because he, like, lied.
Did clinton lie? Can you at least admit that? Any step you can take to admiting democrats lie will be good for you.
Glad you admit he was there.
Surely the experience of being there was seared into his memory.
Will you admit that you lie? Look into your soul, my friend.
Wow, did Bush Lie? I don’t think ~I~ should answer that. After all, it wouldn’t be fair. I think Marvin should, since he is so interested in the therapeutic effects of admission.
When and where, Marvin, when and were?
#133 Daddy Love says:
Have I lied, sure. Has every politician lied? I have no reason to believe otherwise. Here in los angeles a few years back, there was talk about reseda blvd being extended up into the hills with million $$ homes. The local city councilman had a public meeting and promised it would not happen, it would remain pristine space for hikers/mountain bikers/horses, etc. Well, months later the houses went up. The developers even named the little part (with non-native plant species) at the top after him. Not trying to rag on your democrat led congress, I’m sure that the hopes were high that the war would come to an end and bush and his gang would be impeached/jailed. Did they lie to get elected.
Politics is about lying. Some naive people might get into politics believing they can do good but quickly learn otherwise (ala jesse the body ventura). The political system is flawed, we would almost be better off with a lottery system, pull a name from a hat and he’s the president. The next name Veep. As it is now, only rich people are allowed in politics and they make sure they get theirs at the expense of we the people. Ask a congressperson why we can’t enjoy the same health insurance they get, or the same retirement program.
I have a few ideas for improving the government.
1. Make the politician live in the worst conditions of the people he governs. (mayor of beverly hills lives pretty nicely, the mayor of los angeles lives in squalor.)
2. All laws apply to politicians. Unlike the way politicians write laws excluding themselves.
3. All penalties/fines will be doubled and enforced.
4. Besides voting someone into office, also have the ability to vote them off the public dime. (this would include no lobby, etc.)
5. Felony crimes, not only would they lose their job but lose all retirement/benefits.
Have I lied on horsesass, well, I’m a troll so lying takes on a different meaning, kinda like campaign promises. I will admit I have used selective copying&pasting with links.
#134 Daddy Love says:
I haven’t seen the evidence that bush “lied.” Of course a lot of the stuff he said about wmds didn’t turn out accurate, considering how many democrats said the same thing it’s hard to believe the democrats were blindly parroting bush and honestly didn’t feel the intelligence was correct. Bush proved himslef rather inept at the way he handled the war, but that’s not lying. Bush proved himself inept in many ways.
If you have some real proof bush lied, and not an opinion article on a left-leaning website, feel free to post the links.
A little article for Marvelous Marvin:
The Iraq War – the most disgusting orgy of fraud and waste in American history.
Here’s a taste:
Nice little war you support Stamn. I appreciate you foisting this debacle on my kids and their kids.
Oh my Gawd! This is just the fucking worst:
Everyone: you must, must read the whole thing.
And:
Still want to blame this state of affairs on Dems, Stamn?
#139 YLB says:
I’ll blame it on people getting paid by taxpayer dollars. I think I’ve been pretty consistent about people sponging off the public dime. (ala roger rabbit) They collect high pay/benefits and produce very little. Government employees or people working under contract, either way, they are all leaches.
Sure, I can blames the dems. If clinton hadn’t lied so much and gore didn’t feel the need to distance himself from the serial groper maybe bush never would have been elected in the first place.
Newsweek Columnist: Giuliani ‘Good’ for GOP
“A Giuliani victory wouldn’t be a good thing for this country, but his candidacy may wind up being a very good thing for his party. The poll numbers that show him consistently ahead come as a surprise to many of us in the city where he was once mayor—and where he once bunked with a gay couple after leaving his second wife. But perhaps they indicate that the end is nigh for the stranglehold the Leviticus lobby has had on the GOP. All those who joined the Republican Party for smaller government, not fire and brimstone, may be ready to take back the power, to say that health care is more important than creationism, that the disintegration of Social Security is more critical than a ban on gay marriage. Maybe Republicans are finally ready to be members of a political party again, the kind Barry Goldwater could embrace, one that knows the difference between a podium and a pulpit.”
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20.....ek/page/2/
@140 “Government employees or people working under contract, either way, they are all leaches.”
Classic wingnut claptrap. (Classic wingnut illiteracy, too; the word is spelled “leeches,” dummy!) The governmnt employees you are calling “leaches” (sic) include:
Cops
Firefighters
Highway engineers
Child abuse caseworkers
Soldiers
Prosecuting attorneys
V.A. doctors and nurses
Health inspectors
Corrections officers
Judges
Librarians
Teachers
and so on. You have your head a mile up your ass, Stamn.
typo correction — “government”
I’ll blame it on people getting paid by taxpayer dollars.
Bullshit and a cop out Stamn. The vast majority of people who work for the government do so honestly. Roger Rabbit was paid modestly for his labor.
The Dumbya administration has encouraged this fraud from the beginning – only 6 million dollars has been recovered. They have absolutely NO interest in reigning in the fraud.
And you want to blame this on a guy who had a consensual affair?
Obviously you have no interest in reading the article and absorbing its implications because people like you who voted for Nader are the ones who are truly responsible for bringing it about.
Thanks for nothing.
#142 Roger Rabbit says:
@140 “Government employees or people working under contract, either way, they are all leaches.”
Classic wingnut claptrap. (Classic wingnut illiteracy, too; the word is spelled “leeches,” dummy!)
Wow, I misspelled a word. All my posts and this is the first one that you’ve been able to catch. Kudos to you rabbit.
And your point is? If you weren’t a disgruntled government employee I would spend the time to google how many children have been “misplaced” or returned to abusers by child abuse workers. Or how many beatings of minorities by the hands of cops. Of course the failing school systems speak for themselves. How about a high school graduate corrections officer in california probably makes more $$ than you and your law degree.
Okay, maybe librarians aren’t so bad. I just googled it, here in los angeles they start at $51,000. Damn, you have a law degree and barely made that.
How about a high school graduate corrections officer in california probably makes more $$ than you and your law degree.
This is pathetic crap is supposed to hurt Roger Rabbit’s feelings Stamn?
How moronic and bankrupt you are.
#144 YLB says:
Maybe I’m a few years older than you or had more interaction with the government. Government employees suck!! In the old days they were much better, today it’s about perks/benefits and security. What government entity do you believe is earning their money and you are happy with?
Fraud has been going on for years in the federal government. Okay, the one you are referring to might be at the hands of bush. Wanna talk about the big dig in boston? Ever perused a website exposing the pork projects, it didn’t start with bush. And unfortunately, it’s not going to end with bush either. Not as long as people pledge their allegiance to democrats or publicans.
Learn about the fraud and waste of taxpayer money that has been going on for years at the hands both democrats & publicans- http://www.cagw.org/site/PageServer
Yeah, sure. Didn’t I already. Because clinton lied we also have global warming, pollution, people starving in 3rd world countries, bird shit on my car, reruns on tv, american idol, etc. etc.
If people like you weren’t more concerned about being on the winning team and voted for the best qualified person bush never would have been elected. Fact. People that whine about votes for nadar didn’t vote their conscious, they voted for their ego.
#142 oger Rabbit says:
“governmnt”
hahahahaha
#146 YLB says:
If that’s how you saw it.
I was pointing out that government employees with the better (bigger contributing) union steal the most money from taxpayers.
A correctional officer earns more than an associate professor with a Ph. D. in the University of California system.
http://www.cjcj.org/cpp/growth_CCPOA.php
Now that I’m thinking about it…
Hurt the rabbit’s feelings? What the hell are you talking about. He’s an adult, he made his choices in life. Like having a law degree and working in a job paying below his educational level. His fault, not mine. Besides, he’s been calling me names since I first started posting as have most of the people online. If he can’t take a few shots, maybe he should keep his little rabbit mouth shut. But I do find it quaint you sticking up for him.
Bush Exit Strategy Found!
“(Aug. 24) – Astronomers have stumbled upon a tremendous hole in the universe. … The cosmic blank spot … is 1 billion light years across of nothing. …
“‘This is 1,000 times the volume of what we sort of expected to see in terms of a typical void,’ said Minnesota astronomy professor Lawrence Rudnick ….
“‘It looks like something to be taken seriously,’ said Brent Tully, a University of Hawaii astronomer who … studies the void closer to Earth. …
“Retired NASA astronomer Steve Maran said of the discovery: ‘This is incredibly important for something where there is nothing to it.’
… ”
Quoted under fair use; for complete story and/or copyright info see http://news.aol.com/story/ar/_.....2909990001
@145 “How about a high school graduate corrections officer in california probably makes more $$ than you and your law degree.”
Why shouldn’t he? He has a tougher job. I was only a judge. Besides, I don’t worry about it, because the stock market has been good to me.
@147 “Government employees suck!!”
Why do you hate our troops?
#151 Roger Rabbit says:
Spoken like a true conservative. Invest in stocks and get rich. Kudos to you rabbit for only acting like a real liberal on the blog.
@147 “Fraud has been going on for years in the federal government.”
Ever since 2001, to be exact:
“One after another, the men and women who have stepped forward to report corruption in the massive effort to rebuild Iraq have been vilified, fired and demoted. Or worse.
“For daring to report illegal arms sales, Navy veteran Donald Vance says he was imprisoned by the American military in a security compound outside Baghdad and subjected to harsh interrogation methods. …
“He had thought he was doing a good and noble thing when he started telling the FBI about the guns and the land mines and the rocket-launchers — all of them being sold for cash, no receipts …, he said. He told a federal agent the buyers were Iraqi insurgents, American soldiers, State Department workers, and Iraqi embassy and ministry employees. … ‘It was a Wal-Mart for guns,’ he says. ‘It was all illegal and everyone knew it.’
“So Vance says he blew the whistle, supplying photos and documents and other intelligence to an FBI agent in his hometown of Chicago because he didn’t know whom to trust in Iraq. For his trouble, he says, he got 97 days in … an American military prison outside Baghdad … and he was classified a security detainee.
“Also held was colleague Nathan Ertel, who helped Vance gather evidence documenting the sales, according to a federal lawsuit both have filed in Chicago, alleging they were illegally imprisoned and subjected to physical and mental interrogation tactics ‘reserved for terrorists and so-called enemy combatants.’
“Corruption has long plagued Iraq reconstruction. Hundreds of projects may never be finished, including repairs to the country’s oil pipelines and electricity system. Congress gave more than $30 billion to rebuild Iraq, and at least $8.8 billion of it has disappeared, according to a government reconstruction audit. Despite this staggering mess, there are no noble outcomes for those who have blown the whistle, according to a review of such cases by The Associated Press.
“’If you do it, you will be destroyed,’ said William Weaver, professor of political science at the University of Texas-El Paso and senior advisor to the National Security Whistleblowers Coalition. ‘Reconstruction is so rife with corruption. Sometimes people ask me, “Should I do this?” And my answer is no. If they’re married, they’ll lose their family. They will lose their jobs. They will lose everything,’ Weaver said.
“They have been fired or demoted, shunned by colleagues, and denied government support in whistleblower lawsuits filed against contracting firms.
“’The only way we can find out what is going on is for someone to come forward and let us know,’ said Beth Daley of the Project on Government Oversight, an independent, nonprofit group that investigates corruption. ‘But when they do, the weight of the government comes down on them. The message is, “Don’t blow the whistle or we’ll make your life hell.” … Their lives get ruined.’
“Bunnatine “Bunny” Greenhouse knows this only too well. As the highest-ranking civilian contracting officer in the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, she testified before a congressional committee in 2005 that she found widespread fraud in multibillion-dollar rebuilding contracts awarded to former Halliburton subsidiary KBR. Soon after, Greenhouse was demoted. She now sits in a tiny cubicle … with very little to do …. People she has known for years no longer speak to her.
“’It’s just amazing how we say we want to remove fraud from our government, then we gag people who are just trying to stand up and do the right thing,’ she says. …
“’You just don’t have happy endings,’ said Weaver. ‘She was a wonderful … federal employee. They just completely creamed her. In the end, no one followed up, no one cared.’ …
“Then there is Robert Isakson, who filed a whistleblower suit against contractor Custer Battles in 2004, alleging the company … bilked the U.S. government out of tens of millions of dollars by filing fake invoices and padding other bills for reconstruction work. He and his co-plaintiff, William Baldwin, a former employee fired by the firm, doggedly pursued the suit for two years, gathering evidence on their own and flying overseas to obtain more information from witnesses. Eventually, a federal jury agreed with them and awarded a $10 million judgment against the now-defunct firm, which had denied all wrongdoing. It was the first civil verdict for Iraq reconstruction fraud. But in 2006, U.S. District Judge T.S. Ellis III overturned the jury award. He said Isakson and Baldwin failed to prove that the Coalition Provisional Authority, the U.S.-backed occupier of Iraq for 14 months, was part of the U.S. government. Not a single Iraq whistleblower suit has gone to trial since.”
[Roger Rabbit Note: Isakson is a former FBI agent; Ellis is a wingnut judge appointed by Saint Ronnie.)
“One way to blow the whistle is to file a ‘qui tam’ lawsuit … under the federal False Claims Act … [which] allows private citizens to sue on the government’s behalf. … It can be a straightforward and effective way to recoup federal funds lost to fraud. … But the government has not joined a single quit tam suit alleging Iraq reconstruction abuse, estimated in the tens of millions. At least a dozen have been filed since 2004. …
“Most of the lawsuits are brought by former employees of giant firms. Some plaintiffs have testified before members of Congress, providing examples of fraud they say they witnessed and the retaliation they experienced after speaking up.
“Julie McBride testified last year that as a ‘morale, welfare and recreation coordinator’ at Camp Fallujah, she saw KBR exaggerate costs by double- and triple-counting the number of soldiers who used recreational facilities. She also said the company took supplies destined for … U.S. troops and instead used them … themselves.
“’After I voiced my concerns about what I believed to be accounting fraud, Halliburton placed me under guard and kept me in seclusion,’ she told the committee. ‘My property was searched, and I was specifically told that I was not allowed to speak to any member of the U.S. military. I remained under guard until I was flown out of the country.’
“Donald Vance, the contractor and Navy veteran detained in Iraq after he blew the whistle on his company’s weapons sales, says he has stopped talking to the federal government. Navy Capt. John Fleming, a spokesman for U.S. detention operations in Iraq, confirmed the detentions but said he could provide no further details because of the lawsuit.
“According to their suit, Vance and Ertel gathered photographs and documents, which Vance fed to Chicago FBI agent Travis Carlisle for six months beginning in October 2005. Carlisle, reached by phone at Chicago’s FBI field office, declined comment. An agency spokesman also would not comment. … Vance said things went terribly wrong in April 2006, when he and Ertel were stripped of their security passes and confined to the company compound. … The men said they were cuffed and hooded and driven to Camp Cropper, where Vance was held for nearly three months and his colleague for a little more than a month. Eventually, their jailers said they were being held as security internees because their employer was suspected of selling weapons to terrorists and insurgents, the lawsuit said. …
Vance said he … [h]is … interrogations … seemed focused on why he reported his information to someone outside Iraq. … When he got home, he decided to never call the FBI again. He called a lawyer, instead. ‘There’s an unspoken rule in Baghdad,’ he said. ‘Don’t snitch on people ….'”
Quoted under fair use; for complete story and/or copyright info see http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20430153/
Roger Rabbit Commentary: It sure doesn’t look like th Busheviks are busting their balls to clean up the mammoth waste, fraud, and abuse occurring on their watch, does it?! Their policy is: Report fraud, get rendered!
#154 Roger Rabbit says:
Even you aren’t that ignorant to think it only started with bush.
Silly rabbit.
@153 “Spoken like a true conservative. Invest in stocks and get rich. Kudos to you rabbit for only acting like a real liberal on the blog.”
No, spoken like a true capitalist, which I am! Didn’t know liberals are capitalists, did ya Stamn? Betcha you think liberals are so-shu-lists! Well, you’re wrong! In fact, you’ve never been right — about anything — in your entire miserable useless life!
@155 No, it didn’t, but you have to go all the way back to Grant to find this much corruption in one administration. Monkeyface makes Harding look like a Boy Scout.
So, Stamn, how do you justify shilling for this rotten, corrupt, money-grubbing, thieving Republican administration? Are they paying you to shill for them? Or are you merely a misguided, limp-dick apologist for wingnuttery because your mother dropped you on your head?
#156 Roger Rabbit says:
If it makes you feel better to believe that, feel free. Make yourself happy.
No surprise that whistleblowers are persecuted, hounded, imprisoned, interrogated, and even tortured by the Busheviks! Fink on a Republican crook, get waterboarded.
Republican.culture.of.corruption.
I wonder how much Shrub paid for his 97,000-acre ranch in Paraguay? I wonder where that money came from? Paraguary doesn’t have an extradition treaty with the U.S.
#158 Roger Rabbit says:
Have you seen me praising bush or poking fun at the democrat talking points? Silly rabbit can’t even tell the difference.
Like I said, if insulting me makes you feel better, go ahead and insult away. It’s the least I can do to help you feel better about yourself.
typo correction
Paraguay not Paraguary
#161 Roger Rabbit says:
No idea, I’m not bushs real estate agent.
Considering all the obscure questions you keep asking me you must believe I know everything. Thanks for the compliment but I don’t know everything.
“Here’s a fun question for Tony Snow: Why might the president and his family need a 98,840-acre ranch in Paraguay protected by a semi-secret U.S. military base manned by American troops who have been exempted from war-crimes prosecution by the Paraguyan government?”
Oh, and one more thing: The Moonies bought a big chunk of land right next door to the Bushes!
http://wonkette.com/politics/g.....208549.php
#154 Roger Rabbit says:
Didn’t the democrat campaign on cleaning up the waste and fraud? What are they doing about it? Besides nothing I mean.
@164 What makes you think I was asking YOU, you egocentric ass? It was a rhetorical question directed to HA’s general audience.
@166 They’re conducting investigations, issuing subpoenaes, summoning witnesses, and holding hearings. When Republicans ran Congress, they did none of the above; GOP corruption was treated like a state secret.
#165 Roger Rabbit says:
Damn rabbit, you gotta admit bush is impressive. In the last 7 minutes he increased the size of his ranch by 1,840 acres.
Republican.Culture.Of.Corruption
Worst.President.Ever
Roger Rabbit says:
Republican = someone who lives in another reality
RR = a pathetic individual with absolutely NO life.
Don’t worry, Stamn, Democrats eventually will get around to prosecuting Republican crooks.
@172 Got nothing left but name-calling? You lose. Again. Thanks for playing. Hope to see ya again tomorrow. =:-D
I work the night shift. Time for me to hop up the hill to Stefan’s veggie garden!
#173 Roger Rabbit says:
Sure, of course. Keep telling yourself that. If you say it enough times the lie will become a truth, well, only in your mind.
Face it, your democrats lied to you. What is it about the truth you can’t handle?
RR = a pathetic individual with absolutely NO life.
Yeah. Unlike the right-wing moron who posted this crap.
What government entity do you believe is earning their money and you are happy with?
I don’t have many dealings with the government but the ones I’ve had have been on the whole OK. Even the one I had with the IRS.
The worst was with the California DMV – waiting in a much too long line but who hasn’t dealt with something like that?
Nope. You know. it’s truly amazing that Marvin Stamn is SO consistently incorrect about simple matters of fact. When that is coupled with his slavish adherence to discredited and demonstrably false Republican talking points he becomes breathtaking in his lack of content.
The Democrats in 2006 campaigned that people should reject the corrupt Republicans and vote into office representatives who would have the balls to investigate the prodigious wrongdoing of this administration. That effort is proceeding briskly.
Corrupt Republicans rejected? Check.
Inevstigations into wrongoing? Check.
Considering that we had ten years of uninterrupted corrupt Republican Congresses and six years of a lawless and incompetent administration, the Democrats have a lot more investigation to do given their mere seven months so far in the majority.
“”I’m painting a large version of Da Vinci’s ‘Last Supper’ with Bill O’Reilly featured as Christ and the rest of the Fox folks at the table,” he said. “In place of Judas there will be Alan Colmes, and Sean Hannity will replace Peter.”
http://www.nypost.com/seven/08.....t_lark.htm
liberals/democrats have no fear of offending christians, but scared of muslim cartoons-
“Note to Opus readers: The Opus strips for August 26 and September 2 have been withheld from publication by a large number of client newspapers across the country, including Opus’ host paper The Washington Post.’
http://www.berkeleybreathed.com/pages/index.asp
Check out the link for the cartoon that “they” don’t want to be seen.
No need to mention the “separation of church and state” doesn’t apply to muslim foot basins or muslim prayer in public school.
“Record low unemployment across parts of the West has created tough working conditions for business owners, who in places are being forced to boost wages or be creative to fill their jobs.”
http://apnews.myway.com/articl.....20QO0.html
Something the liberals/democrats keep repeating is how they are the party of the middle class.
http://www.historylearningsite.....4_elec.htm
Oops, another myth busted.
182
Of course you weren’t looking at 2006…
Probably tough to win national elections in a country with a large middle class without large middle class support.
http://www.historylearningsite.....esults.htm
181
Yeah, maybe if the paid a little more they’d compete better.
@122 marvin
You may need help with grammar. There is a differenc ein English between “like” and “as.”
If you do get together with a Pooka, you might ask for help. All the Pookas I have met, including Roger and my good friend Harvey, are fluent in English.
BTW, Harvey suggests you really should not carry such large balances on your credit cards. Are you aware that you are paying very high interest rates this way? (Ihope you don;t mind this. I told Harvey it was really not nice to access someone else’s credit card records but he said you would not mind a slong as we do not revfeal your real name here. I hope he is correct).