The Seattle P-I reports that Sonics owner Clay Bennett is checking out the digs in Kansas City.
Bennett has threatened to transplant the team from the Northwest after failing earlier this year in attempts to get state lawmakers to consider using tax money to help pay for a new $500 million arena in Renton.
In Kansas City, he would have the $276 million Sprint Center, which does not yet have an anchor tenant, according to the Star.
“My take on Kansas City is positive,” Bennett told the newspaper after an economic development luncheon at a Kansas City hotel. “You’ve got a brand-new, beautiful building in an important market. It’s viable. We’re going to do a complete and thorough evaluation of the market.”
Hmm. So let’s see. Bennett demands a half-billion dollar hoops palace in Renton, but apparently a $276 million arena in a much smaller market is perfectly “viable.”
“Right now, we have no option other than to explore relocation,” Bennett told the Star.
Um… yeah… or, he could admit that there is something in between the current Key Arena and a $500 million taxpayer funded freebie. Personally, I’d have trouble accepting any public subsidy, but I’m guessing I’m in the minority, and that if Bennett actually tried negotiating, rather than just handing voters a ransom note, he might be able to strike a deal.
Seattle metropolitan area has 3.2 million people. Kansas City metropolitan area has 2.0 million people. Oklahoma City metropolitan area has only 1.2 million people.
Probably Kansas City is a logical choice for Bennett, since they already have a brand new arena. Maybe it is comparable to the hypothetical Renton hoops palace, since the $276 million cost is for something almost completed in a market with much lower construction costs.
Goldy — just say GOOD RIDDANCE to this bunch of professional sports leaches. Stop suggesting compromises.
It ain’t over ’till it’s over, but it’s over.
Richard @1,
I just want it to be clear that when Bennett does move the Sonics, it is because he failed to compromise and he failed to negotiate, not WA citizens or their representatives.
A couple points.
1. You’d have trouble accepting a public subsidy? who are you kidding? Isn’t it about time to pan handle your supporters again? How about bullying the local school district to give your kid more special attention?
2. “Hmm. So let’s see. Bennett demands a half-billion dollar hoops palace in Renton, but apparently a $276 million arena in a much smaller market is perfectly “viable.””
Have you considered what 276 would build in Kansas city? If you have not noticed, Seattle is a little bit more expensive than Kansas, you twit.
@3…
Don’t blame the Sonics leaving this area on anything otehr than a bunch of limp wristed liberals whho hate sports.
I’m sure you have bad memories of being picked last in grammar school or whatever your own personal growth issue is, but grow up.
If the Sonics can make a go of it somewhere else, more power to ’em.
It may be that too many years of less-than-committed ownership and Wally World have left a sour taste in Seattle’s mouth that’s going to take a long time to go away. Let’s get on with other things, and maybe we’ll try again with a different franchise some years hence.
The saddest part of all this, in my mind, is that the Storm deserve better.
Kansas City, here we come.
And the good news for diehard fans is that Midwest Airlines is now offering their Signature Service between Sea-Tac and KC.
4&5:
Ooooohhh. Do we feel better after our tantwum? Good. Now time for your nap.
Fuck the Sonics and their adolescent addicts.
retarded @ 5
What is it about you rightwinged knuckle draggers that inspires you to oppose any sort of governmental subsidy unless that subsidy goes to rich entities that really don’t need the assistance (Halliburton, professional sports teams, et al)? On the other hand, you scream like a spoiled brat in knickers if government sends a check to a single mother so she can pay for a child’s medical bill. By the way, I love sports and have been a Sonics fan all my life. I still have an autographed photograph of Lenny Wilkens I got when I was 12 years old and he was still playing. Opposing extortion does not translate to a hatred of sports. I realize, however, that you are incapable of making such distinctions. Nuance, after all, is not in the neocon playbook.
And how was Sprint Center financed?
I am surprised a bi-state sales tax was not suggested for this KC Arena? Supposedly they had a hard time getting the voters to agree on one to improve the Truman Sports Complex(it failed), but the voters in both KC’s were willing to fund renovating Kansas City Union Station, even though it benefited mostly the Missouri side.(Where the station is, and most of the Amtrak service pulls into, mainly the State House, Missouri Mules, and the Southwest Chief). The station had not been the same since the 1960s, when it was one of the biggest hubs outside of Chicago. (I am surprised FBI agents in KC did not raise some money for Union Station, a pivitol incident in FBI History occured at that historic terminal, don’t want to get into specifics)
Now as for the funding for this arena, who put it to the voters? Was it the city, or an initiative pushed by activists and business interests? Was it the first try? I have been following something out of KC since November, a voter-initiated Light Rail proposal. It had been successfully defeated 6-7 times before, but this time it won, despite all the same criticisms, an the KC Area Transit Authority being opposed to the project. The ATA is now supporting the idea, as they have to campaign for Federal Funding for the project, but already there are people coming up with better ways to make it work. The ATA just wants the funding that the activist stole from them. A 25-year renewal of a 3/8 cent sales tax.
Mr. Retarded:
Let me make sure we’ve understood your position on this issue. You’re in favor of a half billion dollar sports facility, paid for primarily through tax dollars?
Now, assuming that we have that one right, let’s move on to the next part of your opinion. You’re of the impression that the people that don’t support spending roughly a third of a billion tax dollars to support a privately owned business that you happen to like are nothing “otehr than a bunch of limp wristed liberals whho hate sports.” (sic).
Ok, I’ve got it figured out now.
Are the Sonics & Storm worth SOME public subsidy? I think so – there are benefits to the community both economic and intangible.
Is it worth building a new $500 million arena that will compete with the Key for concerts and the like? No way.
If Bennett wants to stay in the largest and most profitable market, he’ll eventually come to the table with either a proposal to split the cost of Key Arena renovations (Danny Westnant at the Times suggested that awhile back) or pay a large chunk of the new arena costs himself.
If he doesn’t do either of those things, he has no interest in staying and this is all for show. I’m trying to be cautiously optimistic, but I suspect that’s really what’s going on.
“I’m guessing I’m in the minority, and that if Bennett actually tried negotiating, rather than just handing voters a ransom note, he might be able to strike a deal.”
How about using the basketball palace that already exists at Key Arena, which we taxpayers recently spent 10s of millions of $$$ on? Not ONE DAMN CENT for another sports palace in this town!!!
Rove’s quisling Goodling is turning out to be the spineless whiny tattle-tale I predicted she would be.
Goodling admits she took partisan loyalty into consideration in hiring staff attorneys for federal prosecutor offices, but claims “I didn’t intend to break the law.” The only way that could be true is if she didn’t know what the law is … but IT’S HER JOB to know what the law is.
Goodling predictably used the “who, me?” defense in response to sharp questioning about who’s responsible for (a) marking prosecutors for firing, and (b) the lies told to Congress — pointing her finger at McNulty and Kyle Sampson (notice she’s protecting the big boys above them).
The U.S. Attorney scandal is all about rigging elections by suppressing minority votes, folks. And that means every single individual who took part in this scheme committed multiple federal felonies — a separate count for each vote they suppressed.
There are literally thousands of Republicans office holders, operatives, staffers, and volunteers who are at risk of going to prison over this.
Roger:
Remembering that Ms. Goodling went to Jerry Springer University to get her law degree, it seems pretty likely that she really didn’t understand the law.
We have at least as serious a question that goes with that. How, exactly, does a graduate of Merv Griffin U get a job as one of the senior law enforcement officials in the country?
Wow! Could I send my $750.00 to the Oprah Winfrey School of Law at the University of Ricki Lake and become a highly paid government official?
No, the real scandal is how this diploma mill grad got on the payroll in the first place.
Actually, I just remembered that Jerry Springer actually has a law degree (Juris Doctor), so we should change that first college to something like Maury Povich U, with a hat tip to Jon Stewart.
http://tinyurl.com/2lv237
50 TO 60 PERCENT OF LAW GRADS AT HER SCHOOL FAILED THE BAR EXAM ON THE FIRST TRY.
and since I’m not even trying to stay on topic, here’s an even better bit of similar commentary, courtesy of Bill Maher.
http://tinyurl.com/37p8nz
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz and zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
I’m pretty sure drafting Kevin Durant will bring in $100 million in jersey sales alone…He will save the Sonics!
If Bennet had any interest in keeping the Sonics here, he would be negotiating. He’s not, because even if we built the half a billion building, he’d still leave and take the team with him.
I’m tired of supporting rich team owners and overpaid NBA players. The Storm deserves better than this; too bad they can’t all quit and form a new team up here.
leftist…..
Obviously you are confused about being a sports fan. You can wax poetic all you want but this all comes down to a simple fact. Seattle needs The Sonics more than The Sonics need Seattle.
Here’s the kicker on this subject.
The teams are not asking anything that other markets who actually want their business are willing to provide. In the majority of cities, what the sonics are asking for is a standard agreement.
Key Arena is a shithole and yes, playing there actually loses the team money. It’s poorly designed, is not welcoming, lacks seating capacity and it’s concessions are disgusting.
Times have changed.
Using Safeco field as an example – did the State pony up and build what the Mariners wanted? Was it what the voters wanted? Has it paid off?
Considering that the Mariners are already 9 games out of first and dropping, the coaching and management is a joke, yet attendance is steady, local restaurants, hotels, shops, etc… are making money, tourist are travelling from as far away as Japan to rent cars, eat in restaurnats, stay in hotels, etc… I’d say yes it was defintely worth ignoring the voters and giving the teams what they wanted.
Seriously, when the Sonics leave, it’s not Clay Bennetts. Hew’s been very candid about what it would take to stay in Seattle and we have not ponied up. This is our loss not his.
Mr. Retarded. . .we can be sports fans without being idiots. . .or Retarded.
Shall we call you a wha-a-a-m-bulance?
retarded,
You really don’t get it. I don’t care what the “standard agreement” is between cities and sports teams with regard to getting them to stay. It’s time for local (and state) governments to man up and start saying no to the outrageous demands of rich team owners. You probably are unaware of an important concept that is at issue in these matters–the status quo is often wrong. Seattle does not need the Sonics. It would be nice if they stay, but only on terms that are fair. With regard to the Sonics’ economic impact on the area, I’ll tell you what–you give me $400,000,000 and tax breaks and I’ll create plenty of jobs and economic benefits. And, I won’t ship any of my money to Oklahoma.
Jb @ 12…
First let me answer your question. Yes, I fully support building these stadiums at the tax payers expense. This is the cost of doing business and it is the way that sporting teams do business.
Grow up, be a man and accept reality.
How many billions of dollars have been wasted by this city over the years conducting Studies? As I write this, 8.1 million dollars has been dedicated to conduct a study on a section of road that is what, 5 miles long?
How many millions have been paid out by this city to protestors that were arrested for acting like domestic terrorists and/or Children? How about State employees (UW, etc..) that were caught red handed in fraud schemes and then given multi-million dollar settlements to fulfill sweetheart contracts that never should have been provided in the first place. All at tax payers expense.
Do I want to pay for a stadium? Absolutely not. But I do recognize that there are 10 cities out there right now with open checkbooks who would love to get the Sonics and will pay hansomly to get them.
There’s always some jerk behind home plate with leather lungs and a gutter vocabulary. . .or down front at the hockey game yelling the same tired old insults, or throwing up on my shoes at a Seahwaks game. . .and I suspect it is Mr. Retarded.
@27
I do get it.
I live in a free market society and you are hoping for a socialist utopia.
The only thing you would do with $400,000,000 and tax breaks is go out of business.
tree frog…
I’m assuming you are watching sporting events on TV?
As our sports facilities have been extorted from the tax payers, i am certain that a man (sic) with your morals and ethics would never actually support that kind of criminal enterprise.
Oh, by all means, insult me and anyone else on this blog who doesn’t kow-tow to tour childish wants. That will be ever so persuasive.
You are truly Retarded
ly Retarded.
I see that the retarded peanut gallery has been silenced.
Schools over for the day, remeber to do your homework before you run your mouth next time.
I’m hearing rumors today that Fred Phelps and his crew targeted Jerry Falwell’s funeral. If that’s so, maybe they should release that wingut terrorist from jail and give his gasoline bombs back to him.*
* Just kidding! Merely satirizing Ann Coulter humor.
Yep, here it is — on Fox News, so it must be true!
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,273313,00.html
Well, this explains a few things. Much as wingnuts hate liberals, they hate Phelps even more! Which is understandable … we hate him, too. (Doesn’t everyone?)
Put in this context, it now seems obvious who the Liberty University student had in mind when he headed for the funeral with a carload of napalm bombs intended for “protesters” who planned to “disrupt” the funeral.
But isn’t it funny that MSM didn’t mention Phelps, leaving the impression with their audiences that run-of-the-mill lefty anti-Falwell pickets were the “disrupters” this guy was targeting?
I mean, I can sure understand why someone would want to take out Phelps, the guy does that to people. How convenient that MSM forgot to mention that Phelps is what this was all about.
Stick a fork in their ass and turn them over. They’re done. Good bye and good riddance.
ROGER RABBIT CURRENT EVENTS QUIZ
A hiker who recently went missing for three days in Issaquah is back with his family. While hundreds of searchers scoured the woods for him, the hiker was:
[ ] 1. Lying unconscious under a log for three days
[ ] 2. In a motel room with a girlfriend
No cheating now!
@37 I’ll bet this guy is a Republican.
retarded @ 33,
You have not silenced anyone. Blather, insults, and distortion do not substitute for a well-reasoned argument. I’d recommend some logic texts to you, but I don’t believe you could make your way through any written material that did not bear the imprimatur of the Republican Party.
@18 I do believe you’ve answered your own question. The reasons she was hired, of course, are:
1. No brains
2. No ethics
3. Needs a job
4. Will do what she’s told
5. Won’t ask any questions
@20 Is that all? They’ve sure lowered the standards since I took it. Oh yeah … in case any of you wingnuts are wondering, I passed the bar exam on my first try.
@23 $100 million isn’t what it used to be. Nowadays, it’s barely enough to buy a condo in Manhattan.
@25 “Seattle needs The Sonics more than The Sonics need Seattle.”
BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
The Sonics are good for what? Besides creating traffic congestion on game days? Having the team here creates 6 peanut vendor jobs.
@25 Who the hell are you? Bennett’s PR flack, posting incognito? Go take your fucking tin cup and panhandle somewhere else. I’m not giving Bennett my money and that’s final. Fuck him and fuck you!
@28 “First let me answer your question. Yes, I fully support building these stadiums at the tax payers expense. This is the cost of doing business and it is the way that sporting teams do business. Grow up, be a man and accept reality.”
Oh, I get it now — this is satire.
@28 “Do I want to pay for a stadium? Absolutely not. But I do recognize that there are 10 cities out there right now with open checkbooks who would love to get the Sonics and will pay hansomly to get them.”
Thank God all these suckers live in someone else’s city.
@28 (continued) I don’t suppose it means anything to you that we took a VOTE on this question and 75% of the voters said NO … I repeat, go fuck yourself.
@30 Looks a whole lot like you’re the one who’s promoting a socialist utopia — socialism for billionaire sports team owners. Fuck you!
@33 What part of GET YOUR HAND OUT OF MY POCKET OR I’LL BITE IT OFF don’t you understand?
@39 Retardo sounds exactly like the telemarketers who claimed they had a “right” to harass us when the Do-Not-Call law was being debated.
What Bennett still refuses to acknowledge, and what is ultimately driving this whole charade is that this team runs a ten million dollar a year operating loss.
Schultz, Walker, and Stern did their best to pretend that this was all due to “the worst lease agreement in the NBA”, but by now we’ve all been able to figure out precisely how, and why that just isn’t so.
Even with sell out crowds, that operating deficit only declines slightly. Even with $200,000 luxury boxes, that operating loss remains substantial. Even major concessions on the Key lease would only serve as a cash poultice to treat financial cancer. The Sonics only pay about $1 Mil per year at the Key. What Bennett and Kneeland were demanding from the lege was a new arena, and full control of all non-basketball event revenues. That’s what Bennett believes it will take to fix his operating budget. All the money. All of it.
“Build me an arena, then let me keep all the money it earns.” The Babs concerts, the monster truck rallies, whatever. All of it. He can’t make NBA basketball work in this market without a bunch of non-NBA event revenue.
That’s like telling the commercial leasing agent at the strip mall that you want free rent, and you want all the net from the other stores in the mall… or else you’ll go out of business.
You just can’t run an entertainment business on the model of the NBA and support average salaries in excess of $6M in a competitive market of less than 4 million people. Seattle area consumers have too many other good options. And there aren’t enough of us. If this was a crappier place to live, with fewer things to do and spend money on, or if we had another million or so residents it might work.
Bennett’s another self-made multi-millionaire grown bored with his own success and looking for a challenge. So he buys a failing NBA franchise in a medium size market. He’s been dealt into the game from a rigged deck, and he knows it. He can’t extort the $10 Mil out of the taxpayers. So he’s left with no choice but to move the team.
Buh…
Bye
@51 If a business can’t make a profit, it should go out of business. That’s how the capitalist model works. Propping up a failed business venture with public money is socialism.
Is the Key even typically full during Sonics games nowadays? I seem to recall that wasn’t the case even back when the team was winning.
By the way, I dunno what kind of spin the Mariners management is putting on it, but it sure looks like there are fewer and fewer butts in the seats at Safeco Field as the M’s continue to sputter and stumble through the season. Maybe in another couple years they’ll have new ownership demanding that we pay for the first 500,000 seat baseball stadium or they’ll be forced to move to Dubuqe.
RR @ 52,
agreed.
The problem isn’t that King County won’t “man up” and concede to whatever absurd demands the NBA puts before them.
The problem is that, over time, and largely due to escalating salaries, the NBA business model has morphed into one that probably won’t work in this market. Not in any rational economic sense.
Consider once again the strip mall example. Now imagine you wanted to build a strip mall in a location with only average traffic patterns, not too much local resident pop. and distressingly close to a couple of other, really nice, well established strip malls. You want to land SBux as your anchor tenant. While the other nearby strip malls already have a couple of really high quality independent coffee shops. But you figure SBux is the killer tenant that will draw the traffic from the other strip malls.
SBux tells you that, based upon their analysis they won’t get enough traffic to be able to pay you any rent. Furthermore they say that, because they have such an awesome product, and because they pay their green-aproned stooges so much money, they’ll also need the rent money from the other tenants in your strip mall to be able to make a go of it.
Would you build this strip mall?
Would you look for another anchor tenant?
54
Excellent analysis. At a certain point, cold, hard economic analysis has to trump the emotional pap that professional sports teams invariably trot out to try to justify the public handouts they demand.
Why is there always some yahoo yelling about their sports team needing the support of the taxpayers? Every one of the players, coaches, owners and ‘luxury box’ fans are millionaires who hate-Hate-HATE paying taxes and here they come with their hands out screaming about how they need the taxpayers to help them pay for their damned stadiums or they’re going to move the team. Well, fucking move already! And don’t pay taxes there!
The Mariners got a new stadium (that NOBODY wanted) after they threatened to move and what have they done with it? Fuck-all, is what they’ve done. Not even a single fucking game in The Series. Not. One. Fucking. Game. Fuck those guys. At least the Seahawks went to the Super Bowl after we built them a stadium. Good job, fellas. And you’re welcome for the lovely stadium, but don’t come back asking for more money anytime soon.
Are You Retarded? sounds like another one of the same sons of bitches that are screaming about how property taxes are too high and the sales tax is too high and the gas tax is too high and state government is too big and She’s-Not-My-Governor and blah blah damned-liberal-hippie-fags blah blah welfare-queens-live-better-than-me blah blah fucking blah. I’m sick of these cement-headed morons dictating what’s important in this state. It’s these same douchebags who think the important part of college is the fucking football and basketball team. I’m sorry you didn’t get into the pros or play in college or were forced to play JV bench when you were in High School, but quit making the rest of us pay so you can live vicariously through some pro athlete. Jesus. Isn’t ESPN enough for you? They broadcast all the damned games you’d ever want to see, you know.
You already got two goddamned stadiums paid for and/or subsidized by taxpayer money. One with the support of the voters and one without. Now you want another one? Fuck you. Football, baseball AND basketball? Double-fuck you. Build me a decent transit system and fix the goddamned freeways first. I’m sick to fucking death of spending more and more time every week on the fucking roads trying to get to and from my miserable goddamned job! How about a little taxpayer largess for me and my commuter bretheren before we hand another $400million out to the richest bastards in the state? And while we’re at it why don’t we invest some more money in the public school system and maybe take a look at the housing and healthcare crisis happening here before we end up with serious problems that won’t be ignored while you’re watching your favorite sports team of millionaires play. I realize these issues aren’t as sexy as basketball, but maybe it’s time for us as a state to grow the hell up and start making some adult decisions about what we do with our tax money before we end up even more like Alabama.
Maybe then we’ll think about building another fucking stadium for a bunch of fucking whiney millionaires who don’t want to pay taxes on anything but want the people who do pay taxes to pay for all their goddamned bullshit.
And if you want to see some REAL basketball played by REAL players, go support your local high school team. Those kids play the game the way it was meant to be played: by amateurs who love it.
Here’s another interesting little tidbit for you all. There have also been rumblings that Clayboy and his redneck mafia are looking into Las Vegas as well. And LV mayor Oscar Goodman has been pimping LV out to the major sports leauges for years, despite not having a truly first-rate permanent facility even under construction yet.
So here’s something we might be chuckling over in the next few years: Clayboy probably winding up getting sued by the Maloof brothers – who will sooner rather than later move the Kings to LV now that voters in Sacramento rejected a new arena deal last fall – over who gets to move their team to Sin City.
I looking forward to seeing the redneck mafia take another red-hot poker in the ass, don’t you?
Mr. Retarded:
Sorry if you got the idea that you had somehow silenced me. I have to work for a living, so hanging out here waiting for your responses really isn’t an option.
So, you like basketball. Good for you. Actually, I rather like basketball myself. It’s strongly competitive without being bloody combat, and requires skilled and talented athletes.
I have other things that I like as well. As a rule, I don’t expect the taxpayers to pick up huge tabs so that I may enjoy them. Asking for roughly $100 from every man, woman and child in the state is just too much for a game that I can enjoy down at my local high school.
If we were speaking of some sort of reasonable amount, and if we weren’t still paying off the bonds on the last basketball arena improvement, and if we weren’t simply given an ultimatum by the new team owner that knew exactly what he was getting when he bought the team, I could probably be persuaded that some subsidy was appropriate. There are some economic benefits to be gained, and a certain regional pride as well.
As it is, I wish Mr. Bennett and the team the best of luck in their new home, wherever it may be. I’ll just become a Portland Trailblazers fan, and might even drive to Portland to see a game if the Sonics ever come to play.
I can “boo” with the best of them.
Seattle Times wanted to give Clay the whole enchilada.