Chelan County Superior Court Judge John Bridges has set a May 23 trial date for Dino Rossi’s challenge of the 2004 gubernatorial election. The trial will last two weeks.
He denied the Democrats request to wait six months. Well… you can’t blame their lawyers for trying.
UPDATE:
I had a brief email chat with Lawyer X, who filled me in on some of the details. Rossi’s attorneys must “lock their claims” and disclose all their witnesses by April 15; the Democrats have until May 6. On May 2, the judge will rule on whether the Republicans can use their proportional analysis method to prove their case.
Lawyer X also points out that Judge Bridges set a two week trial time, so as to reserve time for the Republicans to prove how each voter voted. That would suggest that he certainly hasn’t accepted proportional analysis, at least as of the moment.
I thought this was a “model election” ??
Now BIAW is going to have to do something more than run advertising campaigns and wear orange.
The Democrats wanted to postpone the trial until it would have been too late to elect a governor at the general election this coming November.
The constitution says a vacancy in office must be filled at the next general election, if the vacancy is created at least 30 days before that election.
Add 6 months to April 6, plus a week or so for trial, and you find yourself with less than 30 days left before the next general election — even without taking time to appeal.
Even if the Republicans won the election contest after a 6-month delay, Brad Owen would become the governor until a governor could be elected at the November 2006 general election.
Pretty transparent. It would be nice to think that they tried such a ploy because they’re genuinely worried. – posted at SP
Won’t this go to the appeals court anyway? Will they act quickly?
The Democrats are going to lose. Bad press lately, eh?
Bye bye Chrissie, Ronnie, Deano and Company!
Comment by GreGored No More— 4/5/05 @ 7:58 pm
And heeellllllooo to Marummy, Dino, Josef, David, Reagan, and Marummy! Everybody loves Marummy the Rossi hottie!!
Oh, woops – this is the (CENSORED) blog. All common sense is out the window. What is up is down and down is up. What is right is wrong and what is wrong MAY be right…
we must be careful of that “language of conflict” not to upset Julia Patterson, in campaign mode. Model election that even banks would envy huh Ronny? Sims should have taught Dean some Good home training in the democrat cover up methods play book. The WA DEMS missed some key tips at the clinton-rodham seminars on winning elections.
Gregoire is tied to every supreme court judge except Jim Johnson, who she tried to ruin, so in the end who knows. It sure is awesome to see the squirming tho.
Hmmm. “…so as to reserve time for the Republicans to prove how each voter voted.” I thought we voted with secret ballots. How will the Thugs prove how people voted if they don’t want to say?
Won’t this go to the appeals court anyway? Will they act quickly?
Yes, whoever loses will almost certainly appeal the the state supreme court.
It is actually very likely that there will be at least one interim appeal there as well during or before trial.
Brit Hume is talking about WA State election tonight on FOX. KC once again makes the national news. Good job RONNY!
Just between us folks, do you guys actually believe what is said on Fox, or are you just happy with the agenda so you enjoy the ‘fair’ and ‘balanced’ coverage?
as much as you love the clinton news network, totally left.
Nindid@11 – Instead of just talking shit, why don’t you go ahead and debunk anything that Fox is reporting. Do you actually believe what is said on CBS?
“Lawyer X also points out that Judge Bridges set a two week trial time, so as to reserve time for the Republicans to prove how each voter voted.”
Lawyer X is wishfully thinking on this point. (not a good habit for a lawyer is it Don?) Your unending whining that the Rossi plaintiffs must provide testimony proving how each illegal vote was cast is getting old. Perhaps you and X-man should go back and re-read:
http://www.mrsc.org/mc/courts/.....2d0629.htm
The way I read it, it says “… the court …concluded the election officers had been guilty of “neglect of duty” under RCW 29.04.030 in failing to properly safeguard the ballots from tampering…the trial judge observed we have the undisputed testimony in this case of the election officials that those ballots were most negligently subsequently handled. The evidence is…there was ample opportunity for fraudulent changes to be made, and there was, in terms of the statute, negligence on the part of the election officials that made that fraud possible. Since the exact number of ballots which had been altered could not be ascertained, the court determined that the proper remedy for this neglect was the holding of a new election. ”
You and your lawyer X pal seriously believe your speculation that the judge will want felons, illegal provisional voters and dead people paraded to the stand to testify about their secret illegal ballots, and that your wishful thinking carries more weight and credibilty than the court’s findings in the previous case most similar to this. You guys crack me up.
11. Fox tries too hard to be balanced. abc, nbc, cbs, cnn are just 100% biased and no effort at balance.
I hope within 5 years there will be a true rightwing broadcaster, not the partial one FOX is.
then your leftwing bs will truly be countered with the truth.
Law-yer X is really Dean Logan in drag.
Sorry for the ugly mental picture.
Cruel and unusual punishment.
The Leftists are going to get even uglier.
Desperate leftists do desperate things.
Please remember your home-prison training.
From KOMO-
3 King County Election Workers Suspended
April 5, 2005
By Bryan Johnson
SEATTLE – There’s a new flap over vote counting in King County.
Three county election workers were suspended Tuesday evening after another mail ballot snafu — this one involving the upcoming April 26 hospital levy election.
Last week, the three workers were transferred from the mail processing headquarters to the elections office downtown after they failed to completely process 93 absentee votes in the Nov. 2 election.
The 93 ballots had been signature-checked, but the ballots were left inside secrecy envelopes and never processed. King County Executive Ron Sims called that incident “extremely upsetting” and two Republican members of the King County Council had called for the resignation of elections superintendent Dean Logan.
Sims stood by Logan saying the problem may have stemmed from workers who refused to adapt to changes that Logan had ordered in the department.
But the suspensions came Tuesday after a second development. This one involved complaints from eight county voters that they had received information about an upcoming mail-only hospital levy election on April 26. But there was no ballot inside the envelopes. The three workers were put on paid administrative leave while the two incidents are being investigated. They have not been identified.
******
They consider this holding them accountable – Paid Administrative leave??????????????? Also known as paid vacation, without loosing any vacation hours. What a joke. They still can’t get it right. No big deal though right TJ, they only neglected to include the f-ing ballot, no big deal.
this one’s for you TJ –
Ken Schram Commentary: It’s Only 6 Mistakes
http://www.komotv.com/stories/36137.htm
what are their names, what are their titles, why the secrecy?
is blaming underlings the democrat way? Gregoire did it and cost the state 20 million, Sims can do it too? people will forgive if you use the right “LANGUAGE” straight from the clinton/rodham play book.
Yep,
Why take responsibility for an organization when you can simply blame any mistakes on the individual contributors. There’s no chivalrous leaders in Democrat run organizations. These people will glady sacrifice anyone if it helps them stay in power or get ahead.
Just look at how Gregoire ran the AG office. When a deadline was missed, it wasn’t her fault.
Wow. The bizarro rightwingers must be getting mighty worried, judging by their vehemence on this comment board. They doth protest too much!
bluesky@21 –
I think you are very confused.
Ha Ha Ha! Dino Rossi!!! Ha! Ha! Ha!
Ha! Zero Taxes Ha Ha Ha!
Burn all the D’s at the stake Ha Ha Ha!!! Burn Dean Logan!!! Ha!
Fox is too liberal!!! Right!!! Farther to Right!!! Right!!!!
Farther! Farther! Ha! Ha! Ha!
HEY ALL YOU MONEY GRUBBING REPUBLICANS!!!
I’m insulting you again!!! See “Drinking liberally with David Neiwert,” post #4.
bluesky @ 8
Their lawyers will argue that only eligible voters are entitled to a secret ballot, therefore ineligible voters can be required to testify who they voted for.
zip @ 14
If Lawyer X is who I think it is, there’s no wishful thinking involved.
Rush @ 15.
You were born 50 years too late. Goebbels is dead.
Jeff B. @ 20
“Why take responsibility for an organization when you can simply blame any mistakes on the individual contributors. There’s no chivalrous leaders in Democrat run organizations.”
Speaking of which, how many mistakes has Shrub admitted, how many bills has he vetoed, and how many people has he fired? Yep, lead by example, the Republicans always say.
Imagine this, the election gets thrown out, and backed by the state and federal Supremes… where do you libs go from there? You must know this bitch couldnt be elected dog catcher now….where do you guys turn?
You must know this bitch couldnt be elected dog catcher now
A bit of a slip there Cheesie Chuck.. A little latent misogyny?
I get it Chuck. A woman has to know her place. When she runs for office against a man she has to defer to him. When he wins on the first ballot, he wins, it’s not a tie. Defer to him. Who cares about a little thing called the law – the higher law is that a woman must show deference to a man.
otherwise she’s a b*tch?
Poor Dino. We haven’t seen much of him lately. Nothing more humiliating than a man emasculated by a woman who doesn’t know her place.
I understand Chuckie. You can go to sleep now…
Election Challenge Paradigm Shift
It is “beyond” offensive to find out that elected and appointed governmental officials are not following the laws — i.e. elections officials not undertaking the process to remove convicts and felons from exercising voting rights; allowing the dead to vote; not requiring proof of citizenship when soliciting voter registrations through the DOL.
Americans ASSUME the laws are being followed. It is disrespectful and disgraceful to allow non-citizens the same rights and privileges as U.S. Citizens. It is a Class C Felony to register when not qualified, and a Class C Felony every time an illegal voter, votes. Each offense means 5 yeas jail time, and $10,000 fine.
There are laws to preserve those rights and privileges but they are rendered worthless thanks to the Secretary of State, the Attorney General, the Prosecuting Attornies who will not prosecute, and the County Auditors who are charged to enforce the laws: not protect those who violate them.
The challenge of DOL registrants on the basis the may be non-citizens amounts to housekeeping the county auditors are required to do in their official capacity. The effort amounts to holding election officials responsible for their duties set out under the law. The effort demonstrates a US citizen’s willingness to do more then those who we have elected to ensure the integrity of our election system.
I never thought I would be called “an IDIOT,” and a racist on the public airways, the printed media, and the internet, for doing what I consider a privilege, to defend provisions of our Constitution, and the laws protecting all – including the non-citizens.
Having put forth the effort to become a citizen, there is nothing more offensive to me then to learn that others are given the same rights I have worked hard for and they have done nothing except to get a driver’s license. Shameful. They are diminishing the right and privilege of all legal voters, and violate the “equal protection under the law” provisions guaranteed to all U.S. Citizens. Few understand how “naturalized” US Citizens feel about this, and no-one deserves to be called “AN IDIOT,” “a RACIST,” or call anyone names for exercising rights guaranteed by the US and Washington State Constitution.
There are also other problems inherent in people living and working here illegally in America. For example: they work and may be paying taxes and they do not file tax returns because they will be “found out” and may be deported. Simple solution. Become a citizen of the United States and be an honest contributor to this country. Anyone is allowed to hold dual citizenship. Not a problem. It’s only a problem because they choose not to become legal citizens. One very offensive act involves individuals and businesses hiring non-citizens and paying them subservient wages, and no benefits. This is illegal and degrades human dignity and respect ALL human beings deserve, regardless of citizenship status. To illustrate, the former Chief of Police in New York City, who was nominated to replace Tom Ridge as the head of the Homeland Security Administration, lied about having employed an illegal non-citizen, which ended up embarrassing the US President and caused him to withdraw from consideration.
Our elected and appointed representatives should have been enforcing the laws all along; something every citizen assumes they are doing. To find out they haven’t been doing it is shocking, to say the least. Time to clean up the system, to make it as good as it can be. To “find” uncounted absentee ballots so long after the election has been certified is reprehensible and points to lax election procedures and incompetent training. Those people voted according to the law and their votes are not counted. Their voice has been taken away. For non-citizens to be voting, for convicts to be voting, for the dead to be voting, for people to be voting who are not registered, dilutes the votes of legal voters.
America is a wonderful country.
We have freedoms and rights and privileges that other nations do not extend to their people. We have those rights and privileges because we have rules that govern our actions and keep things working in a fair and honest fashion, supposedly. When people fail to do their jobs completely and accurately, when problems such as this past election have brought to light occur: the system is broke.
The only course of action to take at this point is to identify all of the problems and institute corrections. Election reform is long past due.
RINGHOFER is obviously not indigenous to the United States, and I would welcome anyone giving me a call to question if I am a U.S. Citizen. In fact, it would make me feel proud to answer that I am a U.S. Citizen, and given the ridiculous election we have just witnesses, and participated in, anyone actually doing something to try to keep it from iever happening again would renew my confidence in our election system.
Thank goodness we live in a country where we have the right to elect people to power and are not held hostage by those to assume it, no matter what.
Thank goodness we live in a country where we have the power to enact new laws to fix old injustices.
Let’s get all the illegal voters legal so they to can join in legal voters’ efforts to make this nation the best it can be.
John@30
“otherwise she’s a b*tch?”
You read more into it than was wrote you can insert the word bastard, but it doesnt fit this particular situation…however if it makes it more PC for you feel free to insert the term….
Hey Goldy, you have certainly hit a big nerve with all the trolls. Looks like they are getting more worried all the time. And uSP is now allowing trolls to post…..so they can amuse themselves downgraded them.
27: 50 years late perhaps. not early.
28: Bush doesn’t blame staff as does Gregoire and Sims.
31: great post.
33. this blog has said over and over Rossi had no case. now he gets much more than a day in court.
jpgee@34. The cage got rattled.
Chuck @ 29
You certainly have a vivid imagination. I understand your right-wing judges haven’t been very cooperative lately. I have no doubt that many Republicans have deluded themselves into believing Rossi will crush Gregoire in 2008, and all I can say is, that’s going to be fun and funny to watch.
Ringhofer the Professional Gadfly @ 31
“It is ‘beyond’ offensive to find out that elected and appointed governmental officials are not following the laws”
Yeah, like when traitorous government officials reveal the identity of a CIA agent because the president wants to get even with her husband, or military officials violate U.S. and international laws by torturing innocent Iraqi civilians who have no intelligence information to reveal, or when $8 billion of Iraqi oil money disappears while Americans are running Iraq and nobody can find the money and nobody gets prosecuted for grand larceny, or when a Republican senator goes around insinuating that federal judges should be killed if you don’t like their rulings and doesn’t get impeached for that, and so on.
You’re right, Martin — it’s offensive. Fuck those Republicans, damn all of them to Hell, and that’s where they’re going for the evil they’ve committed. If those loonies think God is on their side, they just don’t know God very well.
Cheesy Chuckie @ 32
I tried inserting every combination of letters I could think of into “b*tch” and still couldn’t come up with “bastard” … the problem is there’s an extra “ch” in there … maybe you can help me out with this one. Perhaps Republican spelling explains it.
38, are we back to spelling irregularities?
you liberals don’t understand, we are not posting here because we are worried, oh no, we are here giving you grief, twisting the knife. WHY? In May we will enjoy 2 weeks of Democrats getting bad publicity.
don @ 24
“I’m insulting you again!!! See “Drinking liberally with David Neiwert,” post #4.”
WOW, you really let us have it didn’t you? is this your mean side? try drinking tomato juice dear, it’s the perfect cure for your hangover. you might ant to buy a case because I predict in MAY, you will need it everyday. and did you all drive home last night, all liquored up?
char @ 40
I don’t drink, and you sound lonely. I heard you’re currently without … that’s unfortunate, but I’m not available so you’ll have to look elsewhere. Try peddling your tomato juice to JCH, he sounds like your type.
chardonny@39. Don’t count your chickens before they are hatched.
Chee @ 42
It’s going to be a long two weeks — for them. But the GOPers really should feel shorted. Most common murderers get more face time with the judge than they’ve been granted.
Jpgee @ 33
“And uSP is now allowing trolls to post…..so they can amuse themselves downgraded them.”
Hmm… you are screaming at republicans for name calling and political attacks? blame shift maybe? Everytime you dems don’t want to be seen as biggots you scream it at the other side, smart move but a little middle school for me.
Dubyasux@38
OK so you need more explanation…cannot understand easy paralels i guess? I was saying that sex has nothing to do with the comment, the word bitch fits her, if the present “governor” had been a man under the same set of circumstances I would have used bastard or some other equal term. But you seem to have a problem with sex, perhaps you should seek help for that…
Sorry Chuckie @ 45
You’ve been caught with your pants down. Don’t think you can weasel out of it. If it would have been a man like Clinton you’ve would have called him a socialist or a draft-dodger or some other like thing.
In Christine Gregoire’s case you pulled out the “B” word.
That’s what’s at the heart of so much of your crowd’s rage. As with Hillary Clinton so it is with Chris Gregoire. From your point of view, you can’t stand an “uppity” woman. The worst thing she did was challenge Rossi and win. She “emasculated” him and you guys took it personally. Since then it’s been “little Chrissy”, “Fraudoire” and in your case the “B” word.
And it’s not just the men, the women who have deferred to men all their lives hate her just the same if not more – to them, she didn’t know her place, she didn’t “defer”.
It’s you and a lot of your crowd that has the problem with sex pal.
zip @14,
Okay then… you give me a better theory for the judge reserving two-weeks for a trial that shouldn’t take more than half a day to argue the legal underpinnings? Why else reserve two weeks for an evidentiary hearing if not um… hear evidence?
I hear Randall Terry and Sean Hannity will be in Wenatchee during the trial to keep the judge from ordering life support removed from Dino Rossi.
John @ 46
Maybe he just sees her as that because she is continously crapping on his front lawn, but unfortunately he can’t chase her off with a rolled up news paper like he does other neighborhood pests.
Alot of pretty words don’t cover up the fact that what you say isn’t true, most Republicans just don’t subscribe to your PC way of looking at things. Your really bad attempt to twist him into a woman hater is not uncommon when it comes to those who choose to be politically “correct.” Politically correct is just a well selected new paint job on an old idea, it is mind control and sensorship in it’s most disgusting form. Many other societies have offered up an idea of vocabulary tolerance, which in the end becomes an extreme hipocracy that actually fuels the fire of hate towards a group that is seen as oppresors (what Democrats do to Republicans?)
To be politically correct is to join the ranks of intolerant “progressive” fools.
Let me also add that self censorship is admirable, forced censorship is discraceful.
most if not all of religious right wing policy stems from outright sexism. The woman is subservient to the man, and things that dare to equalize that relationship–contraception, abortion, affirmative action, welfare–are anathema to them. Don’t take my word for it; look up the official position of the Southern Baptist Convention. Their view is fundamentally paternalistic; if Terri Schiavo had been a man she would have been dead several years ago. Their outrage wasn’t that she might die; it was that her father couldn’t control his daughter’s life (and he admitted that was his intent–he was prepared to ignore her wishes).
So I don’t buy for a moment that Chuck’s outrage isn’t born of misogynist principle.
Torridjoe @ 51
There you go trying to pin all life’s and political problems on the Christians. That was exactly the thought proceass I was refering to in my post @ 50, you become the hater that you hate.
Mere speculation and conjecture. Slow day Goldy?
torridjoe@51,
So basically you are saying you are a liberal wimp whose woman has his balls in her purse. Gotha.
TJ @ 51
I think we’ve struck a nerve here. Look at these guys squirm.
The front lawn fantasy @ 49 is especially amusing. Another misogynist quip @ 54. Yep you guys are playing according to script. So sad for you all.
john @ 55
Perhaps your optomitrist should give a new prescription as it seems you have a hard time seeing reality, and the twisting of such reality that you and you fellow yes men are doing.
Yikes, both sides are being a little naughty today!
John@51
Wife controls your manhood to eh?
Fraudoire @ 57
Ok I am on your side but that is just childish trying to rub it in by repeating it over and over.
B & W @ 44
You made it to middle school? You sure had me fooled!
Cheesy Chuckie @ 45
Only time I have a problem with sex is when you’re looking at me kinda funny, but I know how to deal with that.
Sees Black and White in a Gray World @ 50
“Let me also add that self censorship is admirable, forced censorship is discraceful.”
So we can assume you don’t approve of the disgraceful censorship that occurs everywhere Dubya goes? For example, GOP thugs posing as Secret Service agents and physically manhandling women for the offense of having a bumper sticker on their car in the parking lot?
“A week ago, Monday, March 21, 2005, in Denver, Colorado, President Bush hosted a ‘Conversation on Strengthening Social Security’ (These are events where the President is attempting to sway public opinion on Social Security privatization). Two good friends and I wanted to participate in this Town Hall-style meeting, and we acquired tickets through the office of Rep. Bob Beauprez (R-CO). After being seated, we were forcibly removed before the President arrived …. Why were we removed? Not for creating a disturbance. We were sitting there quietly. Not for looking like radicals. We were dressed in business attire; I was wearing a tie. It was for a sticker on a … bumper sticker [that] says ‘No More Blood For Oil’. … Others have had similar experiences … at these events.”
For complete story click on this link: http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2005/3/29/103234/490
B & W @ 52
Christians are wonderful people and I don’t blame anything on them. They are blameless. The problems are caused by the imposters posing as Christians.
B & W talking to Fraudy @ 59
No, you don’t get it, according to the right wing if you keep repeating something enough times it comes true. You’re supposed to close your eyes, click your heels, and say “There’s no place like home, there’s no place like home, there’s no place like home” until you see a bright flash of lightning and hear a loud thunderclap. Last I heard, though, it doesn’t work if you say “Rossi won, Rossi won, Rossi won” …
DS @ 64
Well if that doesn’t work how about she “aint my bitch” – James Hetfield
GOLDY. I finally got you a hotel reservation. A Hotel Locator who had one business suite left in Chelan Co. The gent said it is connected to an adjoining room that Dino has reserved; seems to be why it has remained available. No problem there I said, Goldy and Dino are butt-hole buddies that go way back. It is on the green and a hole-in-one before breakfast might be fun. :-)
The call is out for a criminal investigation….
http://seattletimes.nwsource.c.....on07m.html
While the partisan debate raged, King County election officials said a key document accounting for absentee ballots in the November election was so flawed it was virtually meaningless.
The Mail Ballot Report, which showed every absentee ballot accounted for, didn’t report the correct number of ballots returned by voters. Instead, it simply added the number of ballots counted and the number rejected to show a perfectly matching number of ballots returned.
******
Are you ready to admit you guys are a bit nervous? Is this “Flawed”, “Meaningless” (King County’s Own Words) not a critical piece used for certification of the election result….I believe it is. Looks like trouble for you hypocritical Libs. Nothing to see here, be on your way isn’t going to cut it. For once in your lives be honest, this is screwed up and you don’t know who is the rightful office holder. You guys should have jumped at a new election long ago; you would not look so ridiculous defending the indefensible.
chris–
on what basis would you think this will have anything to do with the election contest? There doesn’t seem to be one. No fraud has been alleged.
Torridjoe @ 68
Are you back on this childish rant again?
Plenty of things have been alleged. However, no matter how much proof you are given, you just say “that’s not proof”.
Are you medicated?
BTW, let me guess, you are on your government sponsored 9-5 lunch break again?
prr @ 69
what proof? When? Who has provided the first bit of evidence to support an allegation of fraud? Not Rossi, we know that–he already has explained that he is making no allegations of fraud.
Quite frankly, any Public allegation of Fraud at this point would be childish, as it would be based on purely circumstantial evidence. While there may be more than enough mistakes and inconsistencies for one to assume that this election has been fixed and fraud has occurred.
The continued release of uncounted ballots, the fumbling by the elections staffs, the continued public statements of problems with this election in a past tense when new errors keep coming up & the arrogance by both parties does scream volumes.
From the Republican side: The democrats have screwed this up and have stolen this election and rushed Christine Gregoire into office, with the assistance of the democratically held legislature.
From the Democrats: If you are going to accuse us of something make sure you accusations are accurate.
Bottom line?
There is no voter confidence in Washington State and heads need to roll. Not the sacrificial lambs at the King County elections Office that have been selected in the past couple days.
I agree with Slade Gorton (Sp?) calling for Ron Simms Resignation and certainly the dismissal or resignation of Dean Logan.
Do we have a provision for public Caning in Washington State?
As to your standpoint that this has been a properly run election and that the Republican Party and the voters in this state are over reacting to media hype, you are in denial.
prr @ 71
so that’s a “no” on evidence of fraud, I guess.
Torridjoe @ 72
You catch a kid in a room with a crayon on the floor, the writing is on the wall. the question is are you willing to see it? and if so are you willing to come to the logical conclusion that the kid did it on purpose and not by mistake?
Torridjoe @ 72
That’s a…… lets get the election BS taken care of and then start moving forward on pressing charges after we get business taken care of.
We can bitch and moan back and forth all we want.
The baby steps election reform, suspended employess, requests for federal intervention are all steps in the rights direction. Then again, I am sure that you think those are over hyped media stunts by the Republicans as well.
TJ, you are great at breaking thibngs down to a “prove to me that this happened” question.
I’ll turn it back on you.
If there is no problem, why the suspensions, why the election reform, why has Dean Logan fled the area on a “vacation”? Where is your proof that nothing is wrong?
prr @ 74
I’m not asking for proof–I’m asking for EVIDENCE. Anything, to suggest that fraud has occurred. What is it?
And you’ve never caught me saying “there is no problem.” What I have said is that under trying circumstances, King did a good job, and compared to the rest of the country at large, did an EXEMPLARY job. However, the majority of the problems that did develop either had already been addressed, or were addressed subsequent to the election.
In any case, the burden of proof is on those who would say the election was unfair. The legal presumption is that it was valid, and that election officials did their jobs properly.
Prove to me where they did a good job? Is all the media frenzy made up?
You are calling the continued finding of un-opened ballots exemplary?
At this stage of the game I find it unacceptable that the members of the King County Council had to learn of this situation in the newspaper. Mr. Logan should resign not only because of his office’s repeated and inexcusable failures in the last election, but also because he has not been forthright and open with the Council and has not properly notified the council of problems.
To adequately address the problems plaguing the Elections Department, we need a neutral party with full investigatory powers to examine the widespread voting by unqualified voters and the unprecedented number of processing errors. My hope is that, as an independent actor, the Justice Department will objectively scrutinize these problems.
Upon coming to conclusion, if applicable, charges will be filed based on the results of their investigation.
From the support that this request has received from council members, I would be hard pressed to think that the Federal Government will not be involved in a very short time frame.
The R’s want to change this from an election contest, which imposes fairly tight requirements for overturning an election, into:
1) a referendum on whether King County Elections was well run; or
2) a trial about whether we can’t really tell who won; or
3) a general witch hunt.
Unfortunately, what Rossi and the SP bunch want the issues in the contest to be, and what the statute says the issues actually are, are two different things.
prr–
King’s error rate is around .2%. That is TEN TIMES LESS than the national general standard for error. Exemplary, wouldn’t you say?
Continued finding of unopened ballots? I know of one instance.
properly notified Council? Can you cite the rule or law that says he must? And why is not notifying the City Executive’s office good enough?
widespread voting by unqualified voters? What is it, maybe about 300-400 total in King who were unqualified? Since when does .0004% equal “widespread?”
How do you know the number of processing errors is unprecedented? What are the figures for earlier elections?
Torridjoe,
We’ll see when the dust settles won’t we?
I for one will be there cheering when Loagn is thrown out on his ass and I am sure that Goldy will be writing another blog about hotels room vacancies if Gregoire is tossed out of office. I am sure that that event would have people coming to Olympia from all over the state.
And in reponse to your next question of, “then that answer means no evidence”.
The margin for error in this election went to 0.0 when the results came back so close. Bottom line, if you overturn an election after two counts by going to a hand recount, your ducks better be in a row. From the amount of mistakes that have happened and the sbsequent fallout, it is pathetic that you are standing behind an acceptable margin of error which is greater than the margin for victory.
prr @ 79
how does the margin of error go to 0.0? In what fashion do you propose modifying human DNA in order to achieve a perfect electoral process? If you know the answer, I will pass that info on to my friends at OHSU.
If the margin of error is acceptable, the margin of victory is pretty much irrelevant, isn’t it? It’s either acceptable or it’s not. And since I’ve shown it’s more than acceptable (while still troubling in some instances), what’s your beef?
Shall I consider this your final attempt to dodge the question of where the evidence of fraud is?
So far, I see no evidence of fraud, or intent to fraud anywhere.
These ballots found, wont change the election. Another loss for rossi.
Bridges should find no evidence to set this election aside, as so far, allegations of wrongding, have been without merit.
Proportional analysis is ridiculous. What do they have left?
I cant imagine the courts removing a sitting governor, over unfounded accusations.
TJ@80 – If the margin of error is acceptable, the margin of victory is pretty much irrelevant, isn’t it? It’s either acceptable or it’s not. And since I’ve shown it’s more than acceptable (while still troubling in some instances), what’s your beef?
Acceptable to you maybe. Besides you don’t really know what the margin of error is. None of us do. We know that it is constantly changing wiht each discovery and we alos know that we are unlikely to find all the errors, mistakes, Fraud – if it exists, so you can say all you want that the margin of error is X but you don’t really know. Also elections are not won by margin of error. They are won by who got more votes. In this election not a single person can say with any degree of certainty who got more votes. You continue to want proof of fraud, if these ballot recaps were rigged to reconcile, as King County admits they were, that is a pretty damning indication of fraud. You think they accidentally made the numbers jive on the report? Or is it more likely that they intentionally made the numbers say whatever they needed them to say to show reconciliation, becasue the actual numbers would not reconcile. Sounds like fraud to me.
FRAUD:
intentional deception resulting in injury to another person
imposter: a person who makes deceitful pretenses
something intended to deceive; deliberate trickery intended to gain an advantage
that’s ok chard @39 the dem’s can have a couple of bad weeks (probably the first two weeks of may as the right wing media machine will be throwing out lies right and left) a year, you neo’s are having bad months (exactly 5) in a row…..
“We welcome any authorized investigation,” Egan said. She noted that her office was organizing an investigation with the help of auditors from other counties. “Nobody was more disheartened and disappointed in the discovery of those 93 ballots than Dean Logan and the supervisors here. That is clearly unacceptable,” she said
Unacceptable to everyone except, TorridJoe and DigginDude. What about you Don and you Goldy, is this Acceptable” to you guys too? How about the admission that The Mail Ballot Report is so flawed it was virtually meaningless? Does this matter to you guys?
It matters, but not in the election contest. After the fact fraud, for example, covering up that the ballots did not tally as well as they hoped they would, is not an issue in the contest as I read the statutes. It has to be fraud in the counting of ballots, not how well you can account for them after the fact.
WIthout proof that somebody stuffed the ballot box, or intentionally miscounted (and the challenger does have the burden of proof in this), in an amount that changed the winner of the election, or that the number of illegal ballots (which does not include improperly processed provisionals) is so great that it “appears” Rossi would have won after the totals are adjusted by the illegal ballots cast for each candidate, I don’t think the Republicans can win the contest. Now maybe the judge will interpret the statutes differently, but I have been pretty good at predicting how the state Supreme Court will rule on stuff like this. I think the SP crowd is going to be pretty upset about the end result of this proceeding, and I will enjoy watching them whine.
Wayne, Torridjoe, chris, etc…
Going back through all of these recent posts it is clear to me that no matter what is said and no matter what is reported that the argument will commented on this site that one side or the other is full of BS.
When lost votes show up after this much bother, when felons are allowed to vote, when provisional ballotts are run through machines and when votes are left unattended in ballott boxes for extended periods of time after an election is over and then counted, causing a Governor-Elect to be replaced, I don’t know what more eveidence needs to be presented to convince you.
The court hearings are coming up and certainly a federal investigation will be as well.
We’ll all see soon enough.
At that point we will either have to eat crow or we will have a wonderful opportunity to listen to what each has to say after they have been proven wrong.
In my opinion, this election has been a pathetic display of everything that is wrong with government agencies. To be sure firing will be in the future, as will ruined careers.
Cutting corners after the fact, is not affecting the election outcome. Its not acceptable behavior, but it did not affect the outcome, nor would I consider it to be fraud.
Carelessness perhaps, trying to hide a mistake perhaps, definitely unnacceptable behavior, but not affecting the outcome.
Diggindude,
How can you say that witholding information about unrecorded votes did not affect theoutcome?
The outcome was directly affected by not having these, valid votes, not counted, let alone counting ballot that should not have been counted(Felons), or counting some twice (provisional ballotts going through the machines).
Saying that no-one knows the outcome of this election is probably the ONLY accurate statement involved in this whole debate.
I really question the sanity of some of the people on this board
They would not change who was elected, therefore, dont change the outcome.
We dont know how many felons or twice counted votes, or how many smurfs voted, but those are irrelevent to the current state of this election.
What is true so far, the race was close, there were some mistakes,(no more than other elections), gregoire was legally elected, and rossi is contesting.
In may, I predict rossi will be sent packing.
I could be wrong, but I doubt it.
According to law, rossi does not have much of a case.
Diggindude, so you are acknowledging; that you don’t know who the rightful office holder is and that all these errors cast a huge shadow of a doubt on the election result? But the R’s can’t prove it to be intentional fraud so we all just have to live with it? You are content with the result regardless of the issues that may have impacted this result. If it was Rossi in office you would have a totally different opinion of these facts. You would not be in support of him holding office under these circumstances and if you weren’t a hypocrite you would not want Gregoire holding office like this either. Would you not rather have your candidate in office legitimately? If you are right, she will win a new election easily and will gain credibility in doing so. If things stay as they are, she will hold office with doubt hanging over her every move, rightfully so.
chris@90
well, if i say the sky is blue, can you tell me I’m calling it red?
I think you would.
I said she was elected legally. Were there mistakes?
Yes, there are mistakes in every single election in the u.s.
This is how the system works.
You are only griping, because your guy is out.
When rossi was ahead, no one on the repubs side, gave a rats ass about who voted where.
Even though you knew there were mistakes, when votes were added and removed by recounting.
If rossi was in now, you wouldn’t be looking for errors, i’m quite positive of this.
If there were mistakes that could change the outcome, lets see them. Stop making shit up, and show us the mistakes.
Found some uncounted ballots. Big fuckin deal, like this is something new?, or extraordinary?
Not either one.
If they shift the outcome, lets cross that bridge when we come to it.
In a new election, there will be as many mistakes, and it will be as close possibly again. Then what?
If rossi is behind again we contest the election until 2006?
In an election, there will always be a margin of error we will have to accept, unless we tag everyone with a microchip, and scan them on the way through.
This election, was not remarkable, by errors.
DD – I need to know what it is your smoking.
You tell me to stop making shit up and show some mistakes. WTF? Everybody knows what the mistakes are, KC has admitted to many of the mistakes. Is it not a mistake to not count all the ballots cast? Is it not a mistake to allow people to vote twice? Is it not a mistake to have felons illegally vote? Is it not a mistake to allow hundreds of unverified provisional to be inserted into the machines and mixed with other ballots? Is it not a mistake to find ballots over and over and over (again today they found 1 more) and over again? Is it not a mistake (Fraud) to fudge the numbers on a report that is used to certify an election, so that they jive? And on that point, if the numbers where intentionally faked (clear that they were) to make them reconcile and that report was used in the certification process, that equates to fraud – before the winner was certified. Your point was that even if it was fraud it was fraud after the fact in a form of a cover up.
Your comment: It matters, but not in the election contest. After the fact fraud, for example, covering up that the ballots did not tally as well as they hoped they would, is not an issue in the contest as I read the statutes. It has to be fraud in the counting of ballots, not how well you can account for them after the fact.
My understanding is The Mail Ballot Report (which KC is now saying is meaningless) was used as part of the certification and was used to add credibility to the certification. It was released after the fact, through Public Disclosure, but it was not created after the fact, it was fraudulently created prior to certification so certification was done based upon “Meaningless”, “Flawed” information. So by your own standard this should overturn the election.
You should be pissed; your candidate has no legitimacy because of all these screw ups. You are wrong, I have principles and if the roles were reversed I would support a new election. I still wonder why you are so proud of this election and the result. Why can you not see the problems? Why do you not see the bigger picture here, this is bigger then your candidate sitting in the office it is about the integrity of our election system. You are also wrong, when Rossi had the lead after the 1st two counts these problems had not been identified so to claim we knew all this then and did not care is an outright lie. Your errors happen in all elections crap is old and tired. Errors do happen in all elections but to this degree? And when the margin of victory is 129 votes? If the margin of victory was 100,000 votes we would not be having these discussions. Not because it would not matter that errors happened, that felons voted, that dead voted, that ballots were lost and then some were found (numerous times), that provisionals where handled incorrectly, that ballots were “Enhanced” and that ballot reports were fudged. But because no one would have looked into the election this close and identified these problems, because they would not have had reason to doubt the result. So most the time the errors, although they always matter, don’t have a chance of affecting the result. We don’t have that here; these errors have the potential of dramatic impact. I know you want proof, you want to know how each and everyone of these problem votes was cast, you want to ba able to add and subtract from the two totals and come out with a winner. Impossible to do and you know it. So you would rather keep the result because your candidate “won”.
Example: Game 7 NBA Finals, last shot of the game. I shoot and make it, referee says it was good and we win, but it really was a late shot. Time had run out. Basket should not have counted. He made a mistake.
Scenario #1 – We had a 32 point lead when I took the shot, so who cares that he made a mistake. Nobody asks for a review, everybody walks back to the locker rooms.
Scenario #2 – The other team was leading by one and now I walk off the court with the championship, that I did not earn.
You said: Found some uncounted ballots. Big fuckin deal
What if it was your ballot that was lost and your vote did not get counted?
You said: I said she was elected legally
Not if “Meaningless” and “Flawed” reports were used to “Elect” her.
Its all bullshit, because the rules were followed, and errors were within acceptable limits of margin of error.
Therefore, all the flailing, will mean nothing, because the judge will rule on law, not hysterics, and not on unfounded allegation.
Lets sit back and watch how it goes, shall we?
I bet I know whos gonna be walkin.
(hint, he used to swindle folks out of real estate).
DINO WILL WIN HE HAS GOD ON HIS SIDE.