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Jon Stewart’s war on Christmas

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Funny, funny clip from The Daily Show (via Brad’s Blog) of Jon Stewart sticking it to Bill O’Reilly.

UPDATE:
Hey, check Dan Savage’s rant on Slog:

This “War on Christmas” bullshit would be amusing if it weren’t so fucking scary. This aggrieved/oppressed majority stuff doesn’t just smack of fascism, it is fascism.

Savage directly compares the Christian right’s assertion that American Christians are an oppressed minority to Hitler justifying his invasions of Czechoslovakia and Poland by claiming that German-speaking people were being persecuted. Over the top? No more over the top than this whole “War on Christmas” crap. Savage continues…

The “War on the “War on Christmas'” is about a majority seeking to eradicate public tolerance for, or evidence of, the existence or rights of the minority groups with which it shares this country. It’s cute and funny now, and O’Reilly’s a blowhard and a gasbag, but it’s one small step down a road that’s lead to gas chambers in the past.

But, hey, let’s all salute Christmas��Merry Christmas, Bill!

Stiff-armed salutes, of course, are preferred. Next year they may be mandatory.

Man… I just wish Dan would loosen up and speak his mind for a change.

Comments

  3. 3

    Hey trolls, I have something for you:

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    Don’t forget to put up your holiday trees!

  4. 4

    Roger Rabbit has posted 100% of the comments on this thread. If you don’t like it get in your car, drive to the Enumclaw Horse Farm, and fuck a horse!

  5. 5

    Rep. Waxman Refutes Bush Iraq Claims

    Here are excerpts from Rep. Henry Waxman’s (D-CA) statement on President Bush’s claims about Iraq progress:

    “The President’s claims today are mindboggling. … The reconstruction of Iraq has been an enormous boondoggle – not an example of ‘quiet, steady progress.’ … The U.S. officials in charge of the reconstruction have been incompetent and, in some cases, corrupt. And billions of dollars have been squandered ….

    “Despite a $2.2 billion investment in Iraq’s oil infrastructure, production and export levels have actually dropped below pre-war levels. …

    “Large government contractors … have repeatedly overcharged the taxpayer. Auditors at the Defense Contract Audit Agency have identified over $1.4 billion in unreasonable and unsupported charges by Halliburton in Iraq. … Last month, the Defense Department paid Halliburton $130 million in reimbursements, profits, and bonuses for billings that the department’s own auditors recommended against paying. …

    “Between May 2003 and June 2004, U.S. officials shipped nearly $12 billion in cash to Iraq. As government audits later found, the cash was spent and disbursed by U.S. officials with virtually no financial controls or reliable accounting. The Administration cannot account for over $8 billion that was transferred to Iraqi ministries. This unsupervised flood of cash into Iraq became an open invitation to corruption … there are dozens of other criminal corruption cases being processed.”

    Senator Russ Feingold (D-WI) Responds to President’s Speech

    Here are excerpts from Sen. Feingold’s statement:

    “The President does not understand that his Iraq policies are preventing us from succeeding in our larger campaign against global terrorists – Iraq is not the be-all and end-all of our country’s national security. The President also fails to understand the limited role the U.S. military should play in Iraq’s long-term political and economic reconstruction efforts. Our brave servicemen and women won a resounding victory in the initial military operation, and their task is largely over. Maintaining the current U.S. military presence, without a clear plan and timetable to finish the military mission in Iraq, isn’t a strategy for success in Iraq or for success in the fight against global terrorism.”

  12. 12

    Yeah the right NEEDS an enemy. And Faux News has really run with the WAR ON CHRISTMAS shit. Too bad they didn’t realize it’s no less than Baby Bush’s White House sending out – wait for it – HOLIDAY CARDS!

    What a bunch of fucking idiots!

  13. 13

    You guys seem to be willingly ignorant about the part that says “… nor the free exercise thereof…”. You can’t deny that there’s an virulent anti-Christian hate movement out there. I’m not saying all moonbats are part of it, but it’s there.

  15. 15

    If there is no effort to sanitize Christmas then please explain the following.

    District yanks ‘Merry Christmas’ menus
    http://www.thenewstribune.com/.....6568c.html

    ‘Silent Night’ secularized
    School changes beloved Christmas carol to ‘Cold in the Night’ with all new lyrics
    http://worldnetdaily.com/news/.....E_ID=47784

    ‘Giving Counter’ Replaces Tree After Parent Complains
    http://www.koin.com/news.asp?ID=5869

    Holy family, Magi nixed from nativity. Library says figures would be ‘inappropriate,’ action leaves just farm animals, shepherd boy.
    http://worldnetdaily.com/news/.....E_ID=47767

  16. 16

    And when Russ Feingold and Henry Waxman find enough people to support them for president, they can decide the policies. Until then, they just get to bite at the ankles of those who actually are running things.

  17. 17

    Another TJ @11, Thomas Trainwinder @14,

    Ooops. As a fellow, Christmas-hating Jew, I should have caught that. “Jon” is a good Hebrew name. “John” is something you pee in.

  18. 18

    Calling it Christmas is OK with me. After all, it’s really based on an ancient pagan holiday and just wrapped in a Christian wrapper.

    Gifts, lots to drink and lots to eat. Sounds good to me!

  20. 20

    I have always thought holiday, or “holy day”, was a nice way to refer to Christmas. (Thanks Wabbit.) It is nice to see, however, how the left bends over backwards to understand and tolerate most of red America. Hint – it is hard to appeal to people you despise, or at least appear to despise through even minor attacks on things like Christmas. Go ACLU!

  22. 22

    mark @13:

    Well, there’s a virulent anti-Islam movement out there too, based on the actions of a few bad apples. Don’t see no one complaining about that.

    (The virulent anti-Christian movement may be due to the abortion center terroists, fundamentalist christians trying to force christiaanity into our schools, our legislation, our public building (ten com display) our supreme court, etc. Can’t imagine why the secularists might be wanting to fight fire with fire. The ironic thin is that it’s the Christians that seem to be so filled with hate for so many people, when Christ’s message is to love each other. And some people think that maybe, just maybe, it would be better to move past all this magical thinking and base our lives and decisions on rational thought. Go figure.)

  23. 23

    @5 “Despite a $2.2 billion investment in Iraq’s oil infrastructure, production and export levels have actually dropped below pre-war levels.

    Weren’t there sanctions prior to the war? I thought their exports were pretty limited at that time. Of course “oil for palaces” was in full swing, maybe they are counting back-door oil deals as exports, instead of just counting the legal exports.

  24. 24

    @5 Waxman is simply wrong about that.

    the overall Iraqi economy appears to be recovering rapidly from its condition just after the war, fueled in large part by U.S. and international reconstruction aid. For 2004, Iraqi real GDP growth was estimated by Global Insight at 54 percent, with 34 percent growth forecast for 2005. This follows a 21.2 percent decline in 2003, on top of more than a decade of economic stagnation and decline. On October 15, 2003, a new Iraqi currency — the “New Iraqi Dinar” (NID) — was introduced, replacing the “old dinar” and the “Swiss dinar” used in the north of the country. Since then, the NID has appreciated sharply, from around 1,950 NID per $U.S. in October 2003 to around 1,538 NID per $U.S. by mid-May 2005.
    http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/iraq.html

  25. 25

    MtR @ 13
    you bet your ass I can deny it. Anti-Christian hate movement? Man, you guys can’t breathe properly without a morning persecution paranoia pill, can you?

    Have you been outside? I live in one of the most non-Christian cities in the country (which would still make it 60-70% Christian), and you can’t escape Christmas. Not that I care to, but really–a war on Christmas? If it’s a war, it’s being fought as badly as the one in Iraq.

  26. 26

    Michael @ 23
    GDP as a barometer of the Iraqi economy? Get real. For starters, 50% growth over no economic activity at all, is not exactly earth shattering. If I make $5 in one year, and $7.50 the next, congratulate me–my growth rate is 50%!

  28. 28

    Ooops. As a fellow, Christmas-hating Jew, I should have caught that. “Jon” is a good Hebrew name. “John” is something you pee in.

    Not a problem. See you at Osama’s Homo-Abortion Pot-and-Commie Jizzporium.

  31. 31

    @26 GDP as a barometer of the Iraqi economy? Get real

    I ask again, do they let people this stupid graduate high school around here? If so, I need to move, for the sake of my children.

  32. 32

    mike @31

    now there’s a substantive rebuttal! It appears to read, “You’re right, but rather than acknowledge that, I’ll just call you stupid.”

  33. 33

    Although I am not a Jew, and I kinda like Christmas (even as an Atheist) I must say that I do look foward to meeting everyone at the Osama’s Homo-Abortion Pot-and-Commie Jizzporium.

    Jaybo, did you get your invitation?

  34. 34

    Torridjoe – why are you trying so hard to convince the world that things are awful in Iraq? It must be the Bush-derangement-syndrome. If it makes him look good, it has to be crushed.

    Real estate is getting more expensive in Iraq. That is an indication of capitalism and confidence in the country. Isn’t there going to be an election next week?

  35. 35

    “I ask again, do they let people this stupid graduate high school around here? If so, I need to move, for the sake of my children.”

    Don’t worry. Micheal, I am sure even with our low standards they would have no problem holding the fruit of your loins back a few years.

  36. 36

    Janet S. “Real estate is getting more expensive in Iraq. That is an indication of capitalism and confidence in the country”

    Actually it is harder and harder to find a piece of land in Iraq not heavily polluted with dupleted uranium and white phosphorus. Thus the higher prices for “clean” real estate.

    So, Janet, you buying up some speculative real estate in Iraq?

  37. 37

    This winter many people are having to choose between staying warm and eating (skyrocketing natural gas and heating oil). Many others are huddling in FEMA trailers sitting out the hurricane disasters.

    What do the wingnuts want to do? Celebrate their good fortune and hypnotize themselves with Faux News and whine about “The War on Christmas”.

    Happy holidays.

  38. 38

    janet @ 34
    How ironic. I don’t need to try hard at all; I simply need to rely on facts from the ground. It would be you, and the President, and Michael, and other war apologists, who seem to be desperately justifying the mission any way they can. Why? Hmmm…might be the unpopularity of the effort among the American people, I think.

  39. 39

    I dont know if this is a christian issue at all. Christmas is effectively a secxular holiday more about toys and profit margins theh christ.

    But I do have to admit the paranoia of saying anything with the word crhistmas in it is pretty silly.

    Federal way reprints menus because someone wrote Merry Christmas on them? Medina has to remove a giving tree because it was too much like a christmas tree?

    Christmas is an american holiday and it has transcended any specific faith conenction a long time ago as it got more and more commercialized.

    The fact that they are striving for diversity and inclusion but are using tactics of intolerance and exclusion to achieve it is ironic.

    I also note that using the bill of rights here is misusing them. They were intended to protect rights, not limit them. And anyone who thinks they have a right not to be offended needs to show me with ammendment that is in.

  40. 40

    Mark the Redneck @ 13, Jaybo @ 15

    A friend of mine claims to be a lieutenant in the movement. He tells me that, within the movement, they refer to it as the “War on Idiots.”

    Hey MTR have you paid off you gambling debts? I sure would like to believe that you have a little bit of integrity (you know, holiday season and all).

  41. 41

    sven

    The fact that they are striving for diversity and inclusion but are using tactics of intolerance and exclusion to achieve it is ironic.

    examples?

  42. 42

    sven @ 39: Did you have a point? If so, I’m havinbg trouble following it. Could you restate?

    Just so u r clear where I’m coming from, I believe Happy Holidays is the more proper greeting as a) Jon points out it is the season of Christmas AND New Years, both holidays in my book, and b) several of my relatives by marriage and friends are Jewish(my sister even converted), Happy Holidays is more tolerant and inclusive to them.

  43. 43

    I did reply to Donna, but the site died and I lost my post.

    My comment is that:

    The attack on christmas in generally is based on someones presumption that christmas is a religoius holiday and that might offend non christians. That to me is faulty as Christmas is a commercial and secular holiday too, and those trying to be politically correct are wasting their times.

    I also beleive that any claims to a right not to be offended are baseless, and shouldnt be used as justification in the first place. In fact most first ammendment arguments are basically faulty.

    Donna, would you say the school in Wisconsin that forbids Religious themed Christmas carols in its program, but allows secular onesas well as Hannukkah carols in the same program is exclusive?

    I personally say let all of the parallel holidays be represented, exclude no one, include all and tell everyone to suck it up.

    You cannot build diversity and teolerance by using exclusion and intolerance. Its contradctory.

    I think people are way too thin skinned.

  44. 44

    @13

    “You can’t deny that there’s an virulent anti-Christian hate movement out there.”

    What do you expect when we invade their countries, bomb their villages, and torture their men and boys?

  45. 45

    Hey MTR, I have a question for you: Is the “invisible hand” gonna cause a market correction of Safeco’s policies of (a) overcompensating its CEO, and (b) undercompensating its shareholders, and (c) overcharging its policyholders?

  46. 46

    16

    Yeah Janet, those who are running things are doing a great job, eh? I see Bush’s approval rating has crept back to 40% based on a perception the economy is doing better (translation: gas prices have come down slightly) — but just wait until Bush’s war inflation hits the economy, you guys will be in single digits.

  48. 48

    @23

    Yeah, with the pre-war sanctions and all, it was hard to make Iraqi oil production drop, but the Bushies have managed it.

  49. 49

    24

    “Since then, the NID has appreciated sharply, from around 1,950 NID per $U.S. in October 2003 to around 1,538 NID per $U.S. by mid-May 2005.”

    This doesn’t necessarily mean the NID is worth more; more probably, it means the U.S. dollar is worth less. Have you priced groceries, gas, or heating oil (in $US) lately?

  51. 51

    27

    Thank you, man. The trolls can’t say the same. They get no love at all, even they hate themselves!

  53. 53

    34

    “Real estate is getting more expensive in Iraq.”

    Hey Janet, if you think the upside is there, why don’t you invest your money in Iraqi real estate? But you’ll need armed bodyguards to visit your property …

    HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

  54. 54

    The silver lining of the “War on Christmas” is that it distracts them from looking for dwarf voters in 3×3 mailboxes for a while.

  55. 55

    Roger Rabbit,

    I’m curious what you feel is gained by this “war on Christmas”?

    Additionally. I also notice that the majority of your posts take place between noon & 4 AM, is this your life?

  57. 57

    Sven at 43:

    Well, I”m still not clear but I’ll try to respond. i agree that Christmas has become a largely secular holiday. I believe the force behind the “War on Christmas” is….capitalism. Retailers want to encourage buying things around x-mas, but if they call it Christmas, it drives the other-than-christians (not athiests or agnostics, we don’t care) away. Hence Happy Holidays. Examples? Think how many more cards Hallmark sells with Happy Holidays than with just Merry Christmas. Even Jews observant of Chanukhah (sp?) feel sorry for kids in these materialistic times, and want to buy presents for them, and “Happy Holidays” eases the guilt. (Jews and (even ex-)Roman Catholics, it’s all about guilt for us.) Same for Holiday Trees, office parties, etc.

    I agree with this: “I personally say let all of the parallel holidays be represented, exclude no one, include all and tell everyone to suck it up.
    You cannot build diversity and teolerance by using exclusion and intolerance. Its contradctory.”

    So, are you saying we should say “Merry Christmas/Chanukhah/Kwanza/Soltice and a Happy New Year”? As Jon Said, I got shit to do and life’s to short. Let’s stick with Happy Holidays and be all inclusive and tolerant.

    (Love your single example of the War on Christmas, the Wisconsin school. See the first sentence in goldy’s post about the Kansas Professor’s beating.)

  58. 58

    #17,,,Goldy, why do you “hate” Christmas….as you state.

    Hate is not the solution. As a member of the Jewish faith, would you want others to “hate” Hannuka”.

    Do you want to not have a public holiday to celebrate Christmas? In NJ for example, Rosh Hashana (spelling ? ) is a day off in schools etc…and no one complains…because it’s important to a lot of people.
    An earlier poster a few days ago suggested that people so adament against Christmas should work during that day and the answer came back: “It’s a f… holiday, you moron”. True, but if you are against Christmas…should the holiday not be removed ? Or is it: I’m against Christmas, but by golly, I’ll take the day off…thank you Government.

    Why would anyone “hate” a religious holiday ? I pity you.

  59. 59

    Seadog @ 56

    Ummmm…get some more fiber in your diet, dude.

    Goldy was being sarcastic! I suspect what Goldy really hates are the lunies who push the idea that there is a hate conspiracy against Christmas.

  61. 61

    I recognize my example was limited, nor do I want to imply it is totally representative. I was asked for an example, i grabbed one recent one.

    But I think overall it is representative of something that is more common place then recognized.

    You said this:
    i agree that Christmas has become a largely secular holiday.

    Ok, but how is that consistent with this:

    I believe the force behind the “War on Christmas” is….capitalism. Retailers want to encourage buying things around x-mas, but if they call it Christmas, it drives the other-than-christians (not athiests or agnostics, we don’t care) away.

    If it is a secular holiday, who is offended? See why I think this is misplaced? The fact that a few hot heads complain should not drive an entire industry into neutralism.

    When I was in high school I lamented the removal of christ from christmas tradition, but now I am glad because it allows a fun holiday to be just that, a fun holiday.

    So, are you saying we should say “Merry Christmas/Chanukhah/Kwanza/Soltice and a Happy New Year”? As Jon Said, I got shit to do and life’s to short. Let’s stick with Happy Holidays and be all inclusive and tolerant.

    I guess my version would be “who cares which one you/they say?” Say what you feel, and let others say what they feel.

    That is tolerance.

    You could say, as often do, say Happy RamaKwanzChannukaXmas ( the X is silent).

  62. 62

    dj @59,

    No… you got it all wrong… I do hate Christmas. I hate the way it brings such joy to my half-Catholic 8-year-old daughter and her mother… I hate the Christmas tree and the lights and the toys… but mostly I hate the noise, noise, noise, noise! Why, for 42 years I’ve put up with it now! I MUST stop this Christmas from coming! …But HOW?

  64. 64

    sven @ 43 “would you say the school in Wisconsin that forbids Religious themed Christmas carols in its program, but allows secular onesas well as Hannukkah carols in the same program is exclusive?”

    Yes, I would say it is exclusionary. But that is one little itty bitty example, and does not even come close to justify a case of “intolerance and exclusivity” by ANY Party of people.

    Let me clue you in, sven.

    THERE IS NO WAR ON CHRISTMAS!

    It is just a fake story used by the right wing to draw attention form the Neo-Con scandals, indictments and trials.

  65. 65

    Is “Kwanzaa” only for Democrat blacks?? Do you need to be a felon to really enjoy “Kwanzaa”?? Any traditional roiting or Democrat voter fraud required in the celebration of “Kwanzaa”??

  66. 66

    Donna,

    Enjoy that belief, but everytime I go to Target I see youa re wrong.

    Every day a new article comes out showing that the use of the word Christmas is not allowed in a government or in a school or a business.

    maybe war on christmas is too sensational, I will grant you that, but this political correctness and fear of offending anyone is insulting and stupid, and only serves to sanitize our culture to a point of sterility.

    Have a happy 25th of December, implying no particular religious or cultural significance.

  67. 67

    The Democrat Holiday Of “Kwanzaa”: Instead of a “Kwanzaa” tree, maybe a large stack of “King Cobra” beer cans will do!!! The Democrat “Kwanzaa” tree will look even better if the cans are stacked on each other on top of a “Kwanzaa” base of empty Marlboro cartons.

  68. 68

    sven, go look in the O’Reilly store…you’ll see the word “holiday” used in place of Christmas, several times.

    This war on Christmas is entirely phony. It’s manufactured by conservatives. The idea that Christmas is under assault is a complete and utter myth without any truth to it whatsoever.

  69. 69

    Read my response to Donna.

    I conceded war on christmas is grandstanding.

    What it is, is an insistance on correctness where none is needed.

    And I couldnt give a Rat’s rear what O’Reilly has on his site.

    I won’t buy anything there anyway.

  70. 70

    Another TJ @63,

    Do you have a dog and a sleigh?

    Hmmm… you’ve given me an idea! An awful idea! I’VE GOT A WONDERFUL, AWFUL IDEA!

  71. 71

    sven @ 66 “Have a happy 25th of December, implying no particular religious or cultural significance”

    Merry Christmas to you!

  72. 72

    Goldy: I see today that the “President” of Iran is denying the Holocaust and wants Israel moved to Europe. Why don’t you enroll your Islamo-fascist friend into your main political group- The Flat Earth Society?

  73. 73

    Donnageddon @ 71

    “Merry Christmas to you! “

    For this blog, the proper expression may be:

    Merychippus to you!

  74. 74

    No thanks John. We dislike hardline theocrats. You may have noticed that we leftists generally also dislike holocaust-deniers.

  75. 75

    John425 @ 72

    “Goldy: I see today that the “President” of Iran is denying the Holocaust and wants Israel moved to Europe. Why don’t you enroll your Islamo-fascist friend into your main political group- The Flat Earth Society?”

    Oops…it looks like you ended up on the wrong blog. You will probably want to redirect your browser to http://www.BibleFreaksOffTheDeepEnd.org

  76. 76

    I wonder if the pagan eco-terrorists that are trying to strip Christ from Christmas are the same bastards who stole the “C” from Chanukah.

    Maybe we can get Jerry Falwell and Bill O’Reilly to give some airtime to “The war on Chanukah.”

    I think I’ll make up my own bumper sticker: “Keep the C in Chanukah!”

    I’ll go on my bumper right next to: “Keep the Christ in Christ-Files”

  77. 77

    Comment by Goldy— 12/8/05 @ 1:41 pm

    “Hmmm… you’ve given me an idea! An awful idea! I’VE GOT A WONDERFUL, AWFUL IDEA!”

    Goldy replacing Jim Carrey replacing animation in the remake of the remake of the “The Grinch Who Stole Christmas”. Frightening.

    I really hope you are getting this osmotically from your daughter watching the video and your not sitting down yourself to watch.

    Is the Grinch movie the first salvo in the “War on Christmas”?

  81. 81

    Roger writes:
    What do you expect when we invade their countries, bomb their villages, and torture their men and boys?

    ———–
    Dang, I knew something must have happened to Seattle (the bastion of KC correctness).
    Ron “No Merry Christmas allowed” Sims must have felt it.
    :-)

  85. 85

    “Most stupidest statement” award:

    donna @36

    Actually it is harder and harder to find a piece of land in Iraq not heavily polluted with dupleted uranium and white phosphorus. Thus the higher prices for “clean” real estate.

    I am so glad Donna is not my real estate agent, and not simply because of the bad spelling. I would also worry over his inability to understand environmental issues such as depleted uranium:
    Heavy metals (uranium, lead, tungsten, etc.) have chemical toxicity properties that, in high doses, can cause adverse health effects. Depleted uranium that remains outside the body can not harm you.

    In other words, don’t get shot by them…

    And Willy Pete:

    White Phosphorus is used in almost every product imaginable – from soft drinks to toothpaste.

    Thanks, Donna. Your ignorance is your strength.

  86. 86

    I have a friend back from Iraq who is now underwatch, because as a helicopter gunner, she inhaled large amounts of depleted uranium dust. Yes, you ignorant creep, depleted uranium becomes dust after hitting its intended target and then enters the lungs of those unfortunate to inhale it. (helicopter blades cause a lot of dust to fly, but then you are a moron and may not know that)
    Depleted uranium plays hell with the immune system, cause cancer and birth defects. It is bad mojo, and if you want to buy some property in Iraq and have your children eat the dirt there, go ahead They really can only turn out better given your gene pool.

    http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn3627

    White Phosphorus is a purified form of a highly oxygen reactive compound. Phosphorus as part of a complx solution, or as a molecular component is mostly harmless. Not so for White Phosphorus

    But I have covered this before on HA, and I am not going to research it all night for an ignorant ass like you marks.
    ‘
    If you had half a brain you would be dangerous, as it is, you are just one stupid troop-hating motherfucker.

  87. 87

    marks:
    “Depleted uranium that remains outside the body can not harm you.

    In other words, don’t get shot by them…”

    You might not want to inhale it, either:
    “Taken into the body via metal fragments or dust-like particles, depleted uranium may pose a long-term health hazard to personnel if the amount is large.” (from the link you provided)

    “White Phosphorus is used in almost every product imaginable – from soft drinks to toothpaste.”
    And the very next sentence reads:
    “White phosphorus is used by industry to produce phosphoric acid and other chemicals for use in fertilizers, food additives, and cleaning compounds.”
    This is also confirmed here:
    “It is also used by industry to produce phosphoric acid and other chemicals for use in fertilizers, food additives, and cleaning compounds.”

    So, does this mean that WP is in my toothpaste, or that it was used in the manufacture of some of the chemicals that are in my toothpaste?

    Now, I’m not a chemist, but there must be one out there who could weigh in on these issues. But your strength in that last post seems to be selective quoting.

  88. 88

    Oh, what the hell, here it is…

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wor.....440664.stm

    But the military claims it never used WP on bad information, and never
    against civilians.

    But when the battle for Fallujah was waged an embedded reporter …
    well… reports a different story.

    “Bogert is a mortar team leader who directed his men to fire round after
    round of high explosives and white phosphorus charges into the city
    Friday and Saturday, never knowing what the targets were or what damage
    the resulting explosions caused.”

    http://www.nctimes.com/article....._10_04.txt

    So, why did we invade Iraq again?

    WMD – nope
    Ties to Al Queda – nada
    Democracy – never gonna happen
    Because Saddam used chemical weapons against his own people – Seems some
    things never change.

    Winning hearts and minds, marks. Winning hearts and minds.

  89. 89

    Along with the vectors, Dr E and Donnegedonn mentioned, when left sitting there (as happens with spent rounds after a battle), DE tends to corrode and gets into ground water and then gets consumed.

    You are right though, that is no issue at all for soldiers on a battlefield, only for the poor suckers who have to drink the local water for then next millenia or so.

    Oh, and arsnic also occurs in a lot of commercial products, that really doesn’t mean its safe in military grade purity or quantities.

  90. 90

    Dr. E, unknown to marks, I am a chemist. I was an Environmental chemist for 17 years.

    He thinks he is gonna get away with his shit, he has some learning coming.

  91. 91

    85 – pretty smug Marks. If DU is so great then why don’t you take DU dust from exploded ordnance, breathe it in and sprinkle it in your vegetable garden or mix it into your mai tai.

  92. 92

    Donna @86

    Past studies of DU in the environment have concluded that neither of these effects poses a significant risk. But some researchers are beginning to suspect that in combination, the two effects could do significant harm. Nobody has taken a hard look at the combined effect of both, says Alexandra Miller, a radiobiologist with the Armed Forces Radiobiology Research Institute in Bethesda, Maryland. “The bottom line is it might contribute to the risk”

    I don’t know. I went by the previous studies. As it is, I have a penchant for voting for our soldiers as opposed to giving studies a chance…

  93. 93

    marks “As it is, I have a penchant for voting for our soldiers as opposed to giving studies a chance…”

    Voting for our soldiers? You sick fuck! Our soldiers are breathign, eating and drinking that shit!

    WHy do you hate our troops so much that you would support a pentagon and WH directive to use this atrocious ordinance?

    You fucking troop hating scumsucking pig.

  94. 94

    marks, when you know what the hell you are talking about, come back to the table of adults. Until then quit spitting on our tropps!

  95. 95

    Dr E,

    But your strength in that last post seems to be selective quoting.

    You are absolutely right! I selectively quoted. And what offense am I guilty of that others here earn a pass?

    And for you, clueless,

    No, but I did handle DU in a previous profession. Perhaps that can explain…

  96. 96

    troops.

    I get upset when I see ignorant Neo-Con Zombies supporting the assholes who are endangering our brave sooldiers.

  97. 97

    marks “I did handle DU in a previous profession. Perhaps that can explain…”

    DU does not cause stupidity, marks. That is no excuse for you.

  98. 98

    Ok, donna, you fuckbag….

    Let us break this down to a point you can understand:

    1 + 1 = 2

    Do you have that concept?

    No?

    Okay, let’s try this,

    Your drug dealer says he has a dime bag

    (er, you with me here, donna?)

    He also says he has another dime bag.

    How many dime bags does your dealer have?

  100. 100

    donna,

    Voting for our soldiers? You sick fuck! Our soldiers are breathign, eating and drinking that shit!

    Sorry donna. DU is a necessary weapon in the arsenal. If for some reason the studies from back when were not accurate according to you and your “chemist” background, that does not mean the DU round should be scaled back. There is no other round that can penetrate hardened bunkers and walls.

    Bottom line, despite your “friend”, the round saves our soldiers lives.

  101. 101

    marks “There is no other round that can penetrate hardened bunkers and walls.

    Bottom line, despite your �friend�, the round saves our soldiers lives.”

    Your evidence of that?

  102. 102

    And marks, don’t say “Well, that is what they use it for!”

    That is a circular argument.

    How better to get rid of our nuclear waste? Put in bombs and dump it on another country.

  103. 103

    You do know where Depleted Uranium comes from, right? And why it is called “depleted”?

  104. 104

    donna,

    How better to get rid of our nuclear waste? Put in bombs and dump it on another country.

    I guess you really are that obtuse.

  107. 107

    donna,

    Oh, yeah, did I mention that you are a moron? I know…that is rather redundant since I said your name first…

  109. 109

    marks, what happened to

    Depleted uranium that remains outside the body can not harm you.

    In other words, don’t get shot by them…

    Hmmm..

    Obtuse?

  115. 115

    Goodnight marks. Quit hating our soldiers, and apologising for subjecting them to cancer, immune disorders and reproductive suicide.

    And quit being so fucking obtuse!

  116. 116

    dj,

    Yeah them Seahawks! They are the best team in the NFC by my money!

    donna,

    Just in case you were wondering, I was the reloader for the ship’s CIWS mounts. 20 mm DU rounds x3000. So, what did you do for your country? Whine about my exposure?

  118. 118

    marks,
    Well, I wish they played a little more consistently. Winning after the other team misses three winning field goals in a row (2 weeks ago) was not impressive.

    But, I have no idea how the NFC compares to the AFC these days.

  119. 119

    dj,

    Winning after the other team misses three winning field goals in a row (2 weeks ago) was not impressive.

    Oh, contrere! That is the essence of today’s NFL. The good teams win the close ones, and the Seahawks have done that. I do worry about a head-to-head matchup with, say, Broncos or the Colts, damn horsesass again…

  120. 120

    Merry Christmas Goldstein. And I’m not sticking it to you from the religious angle, I’m an atheist.

    Wake up folks, Christmas in America is not about religion, it’s about capitalism. But wait, that bothers you sociali$ts too. All the better, Merry Christmas to all, and to all a good night.

  121. 121

    Well, even though I’m an atheist, I might have to reconsider. There just may be a God with a good sense of humor if he paired Goldstein up with a Catholic.

    Ho, Ho, Ho, Merry Christmas. I love the lights, the toys, the presents, the shopping and most of all the noise of my kids all excited.

    Goldstein, there’s a word for people like you. Scrooge.

  122. 122

    You sick people.

    The NFL lied about the Seahawks, and used doctored footage and selective statistics to make the case for football. They aren’t winning they are really losing and have made no progress towards the democratic superbowl.

    And the players are all dying from exposure to stale beer glasses and depleted pigskins.

    Holmgren lied and the games were tied….

    Wait, that doesnt sound right….

    Never mind.

  123. 123

    Well, I wish they played a little more consistently. Winning after the other team misses three winning field goals in a row (2 weeks ago) was not impressive.

    Doesnt really matter. In the end its whats in the W column that matters.

  124. 124

    Karl @ 123

    “In the end its whats in the W column that matters. “

    True enough…but marks was asking about future performance (where past performance can be used for projection).

    I admit, it does look good, but the “lucky” wins bother me a bit.

  126. 126

    Did someone sprinkle depleted uranium dust in Safeco Field before the Giants game? What were the real constuction components of the King Dome? Can we use DU for the AWV reinforcement?

    Merry Christmas Lefties. Know why the lefties hate the use of Merry Christmas? It reminds them of great business happening between Thanksgiving and New Years. We know from Howard Dean statements the left is anti-business. What time of year do most retail businesses break even? Black Friday, (no not a play on color) the day after Thanksgiving. So if businesses are making profits, it has to be bad for the lefties because that means the economy is doing great, and lefties are against a great economy. Why? It would make GWB look good, so anything that makes GWB look good is antithetical to lefties!

  127. 127

    lefties the party of cut and run.tell me how many days did john kerry spend in the hospital for those 3 purple hearts.any lefty want to guess.he could not wait to cut and run.what a fuckin looser.

  128. 128

    Puddybud @ 127

    Your post seems to be full of old stereotypes. Most of us lefties are…ummm…cap1ta1ists. Really! But, I do remember there were some hippies sold on pure soc1a1ism and commun1sm in the early 1970s. I think most of them ended up voting for Reagan in 1980.

  129. 129

    yo @ 127

    “how many days did john kerry spend in the hospital for those 3 purple hearts”

    A LOT fewer days than Shrub was AOWL…that is for sure!

  130. 130

    dj
    why dont you just answer the question.thats not so hard is it.and one more thing after 30 years in the navy i can tell you one thing for sure it takes more brians to fly a single seat fighter than to skipper a river patrol boat.if the truth be known the chief or the senior first class ran the boat not kerry,a ltjg doesent have a clue let alone know the difference between port and starboard.

  132. 132

    Puddybud @ 132

    “How can my above post be full of old stereotypes, when I use the words from Howard Dean?”

    Well…I can offer three hypotheses why your stereotype are not current even though you believe you are citing Dean….

    1. You only believe you are using the words of Dean (but actually are misquoting or misunderstanding Dean).

    2. Dean’s words on this topic are not representative of the lefties on Horsesass.

    3. The words you are citing from Dean are from ~1970.

  133. 133

    yo @ 131

    why dont you just answer the question.

    Why, indeed?

    So, how many purple hearts do you have? Or, did you also have a famous daddy to help you work out some special arrangement to avoid showing up for duty?

  134. 134

    marks

    ust in case you were wondering, I was the reloader for the ship’s CIWS mounts. 20 mm DU rounds x3000. So, what did you do for your country? Whine about my exposure?

    First, thank you for your service to our country, marks

    Second, your exposure was not to inhaliable DU dust. You should be fine.

    Unfortunately, you ignorance on the topic does not protect the soldiers on the ground inhaling, eating and drinking DU.

    I am glad you were not exposed to that.

    Why do you wish to deny the scientifically obvious danger to that your fellow soldiers were expose to?

    Obtuse?

    I hope you get over that, and come back to reality, and fight the Bush and Clinton administrations misuse of this completely unnecessary armament.

    Or you could just keep handing out the “Most stupidest statement” award to those who point out the obvious and undeniable.

  135. 135

    DJ
    WHAT DID I TELL YOU CANT YOU READ DID THAT KEEP YOU OUT OF THE MILITARY OR DID YOU SERVE ON THE SAME BOAT AS KERRY PEELING SPUDS FOR THE CREW.DONT BE AN ASSHOLE ANSWER THE QUESTION I GUESS YOU KNOW THE ANSWER THREE BAND AIDS. YOUR HERO.AND FOR YOUR INFO ASSHOLE I HAVE SIX ROWS OF CAMPAIN RIBBIONS WHICH WITH A DOLLAR WILL GET ME A CUP OF COFFEE.

  136. 136

    yo @ 136

    “DONT BE AN ASSHOLE ANSWER THE QUESTION.”

    No! I like being an asshole. But, my real reason is that the question is irrelevant. Unless things have changed since I served on the boat with Kerry (sarcasm alert), last I knew, they did not quantify the value of a purple heart by the number of days spent in the hospital as a result of earning it.

    Perhaps you were under the delusion that Howard Dean rigged the whole thing with the idea of making Kerry a presidential candidate some three decades later? Damn those Democrats are smart mofos!

    “I GUESS YOU KNOW THE ANSWER THREE BAND AIDS.”

    Bzzzzzzzzzztttt! Sorry, yo, you lose. “three band aids” [sic] is not responsive to your original question of how many days Kerry spent in the Hospital.

    But, thanks for playing!

  137. 137

    Donna,

    Thanks for taking a moment and recognizing that Depleted uranium, has been a standard long used. It is not a new trick jsut from Bush, rather it is something that has been around a long time.

    I question how bad the contamination is though, since armour piercing rounds normally aren’t used in housing tracts. They are used against bunkers and armoured equipment, which isnt much these days. Most weapons fire is typical FMJ ammo I thought.

    I do plan on reasearching it more, but last time I looked the effects were not conclusive. I look forward to finding out more. I know little about the phosphorous issue.

    But lets remember none of these are specifcally Bush’s baby. The troops are just using what they have to get the job done because it works.

  138. 138

    I won’t touch the purple heart issue, that is so last year.

    I will say that if Kerry was concerned with the answers or the questions for that matter, he should have released his records and shut people up.

    AS with the accusatoin about his attendence on the Intelligence committee, he allowed the accusations to stand against him virtually unchallanged because he would not stand up and answer them with documentation.

    I am not accusing him of lying. I just wish he would have dealt with it directly. It would have shut the debate up.

  139. 139

    Karl @ 138

    You are right, Kerry’s record is so “yesterday” since I don’t get to vote for MA Senators. So, the real “attendance” issue for me is about a certain member of the Texas National Guard….

  140. 140

    @138

    “I won’t touch the purple heart issue, that is so last year.”

    No, this issue isn’t last year, or passe, or anything of the kind. It will last forever, and right wingers had better understand that.

    To wit: No forgiveness, no forgetting, the right’s vicious attacks on Kerry, Cleland, and others.

    The swifties are fucking liars. They’re unpatriotic, un-American, vicious liars. Their status as veterans is hereby revoked. They are kicked out of the Band of Brothers. Their status as Americans is on probation. Their status with God is none; liars go to Hell.

  141. 141

    In other words, we’re mad, and we’re going to stay mad at these fuckers for the rest of their miserable little loves. We’re going to Jane Fonda them.

  142. 142

    Remember these names:

    SMEAR BOAT VETERANS — ROLL CALL OF DISHONOR

    John E. O’Neill
    Jerome Corsi
    Bob R. Perry
    Grant Hibbard
    Larry Thurlow
    Roy Hoffman
    Louis Letson
    Merrie Spaeth

    We will never forget what these un-American bastards did.

  144. 144

    @142 How can you say one veteran told the truth and the all the others lied? Were you there?

  145. 145

    did you also have a famous daddy to help you work out some special arrangement to avoid showing up for duty?

    No, but I also didn’t grow up in the Martha’s Vineyard Yacht Club, allowing me to volunteer for a position on the swiftboats, which weren’t being used in combat operations at the time of volunteering.

  146. 146

    nice to see the hypocrisy.

    Liberals can avoid the truth and conservatrives sont? Conservatives are unjust bastards who hold grusdges, but Rogewr is a proud person never forgetting to fight the good fight.

    You will rape Bush for being AWOL with no proof despite him opening his records, but deride the ones accusing Kerry of misdeeds when he hides behind his sealed record.

    sheesh. Show some consistentcy.

    Is hating Bush so damn important? I dont hate Kerry I just dont respect him. I dont care about bush at all, he was the lesser of two evils.

    But the amount of outright hatred towards him just kills me. Man, get a life. he is a lame duck, in 3 years you can put Hillary in and everything weill be honky dory.

    Move on people.

  147. 147

    Karl @ 147

    “You will rape Bush for being AWOL with no proof despite him opening his records, but deride the ones accusing Kerry of misdeeds when he hides behind his sealed record.”

    Actually, Bush’s record is noteworthy for what is missing in it. Kerry’s record includes three purple hearts and combat in Vietnam.

    But, again, I don’t really concern myself with Kerry’s record as I am not a MA resident.

  148. 148

    I am all for you moonbats staking out this position too.

    If you need any help getting the word out that The Democrats are also Anti-Christmas, let me know.

    LOL

    I couldn’t ask for a better Christmas present than this.

  149. 149

    marks, regarding:

    There is no other round that can penetrate hardened bunkers and walls.

    No other rounds but tungston rounds. They are denser and actually are more efficient than DU. They are also more expensive, harder to make, and have a much lower profit margin than DU rounds, but they do work the same way as DU, only better.

  150. 150

    Roger, you claim to have been in the military. Have you seen Kerry’s OERs? Those were horrible! I understand that during Vietnam they were pretty hard up for officers, but marks like those today would give an officer a pretty quick ticket out of the military. They are written in language that is kind of flowery that most civilians wouldn’t catch, but if you have ever written or recieved an OER or NCOER (or equivalent for different branches of service) you can spot the BS in them.

  151. 151

    DJ,

    when Kerry Lauded his service in Vietnam he opened the door to critcism of that record. It wasn’t MA issue, it was a federal one.

    And I say was because its a dead issue, unless he runs again. And you can bet the same questions will be asked.

    He has yet to release his records.

    What is he hiding? Likely nothing. The only flaw on his DD214 I saw was a medal that doesnt exist, and maybe a release of his records would show a correction form that addressed that.

    Regardless, you cannot claim as a qualification for an office your military service, then cry foul when people want to examine it.

    And Bush didnt before you say it. he never campaigned on his service, his opponants tried to campaign against his service. And they had to forge documents to do it.

    If you condemn the swifties, then condemn CBS equally.

  152. 152

    Micehal,

    I have heard that about the OER’s but honestly, having recieved 12 years worth of enlisted evaluations, that is such a subjective point.

    Sure you may read them that way. That does not guarentee they were written that way.

    I felt that accusation about Kerry was fairly weak…

  153. 153

    to dip into tinfoil hat land for a moment, you’ve gotta wondere about the “forged records” on Bush’s service. Another ooooooooooooooooooooooolllllllllllllllllld trick is to leak forged documents against your cause, then revealing them to be forgeries.

    That way you can discredit actual facts.

    FUn times!

  154. 154

    Oh please Windie.

    CBS screwed up. It cannot always be Bush’s fault.

    Honestly, even my kids get that one….

  155. 155

    oh c’mon sven, read the post… Its pretty light-hearted.

    I agree CBS screwed up. I wouldn’t put anything beyond the bushies’ tho. Totally reprehensible people.

  156. 156

    Dont blame me, too many people here want to blame him for everything they can, including the aftertaste from diet sodas.

    and, as I have stated before, i am cynical of the motivations ofall politicians. I cannot find any reason to think either side gives a rats butt about alturism.

    Power baby…thats where it’s at. the are at war, and we are the pawns they use. Neither side cares about the pawns, all the care about is what they have to say and do to have more.

    We need a decent third party in this country. These two suck ass

  157. 157

    I agree sven!

    but… if you can’t see how the current people in power are worse, I dunno what to say to you. It hasn’t been this bad since… well damn, I dunno. Probably Nixon I guess.

  158. 158

    Carter was worse.

    My worst times economically were under Clinton.

    Its all perceptions.

    I supported the war too, so I am not seeing that as a losing issue to me

  159. 159

    CARTER?

    I had some respect for you… but damn.

    …

    damn!

    Sven seriously. Carter was the best man to be president in the last 50 years (not necessarily the best president, but the best man). Its funny that you say the most moral president we’ve had in decades is as corrupt and conniving as the Bush administration.

  160. 160

    hold on. I have no issues with his morality or his charactor.

    I said referring to his presidency, it was worse. It was. He is commonly regarded as one of the worst in history.

    Since his losing in 1980, he has done great things for America, though some of his public stances have been ones i disagree with, particularly lately.

    I havent subscribed to the proof you live with that Bush is the most corrupt. Hell, Clinton was conniving as hell.

    What he did with Monica would have landed him in jail for sexual harassment had he been a federal employee. The whitewater coverups, FBI records that magically appeared in the whitehouse, and IRS investigations against his enemies… and that doesnt even touch the fact that he used the whitehouse to shield himself from a civil lawsuit, as well as to influence testimony.

    There is corruption in a lot of places, i wasnt addreesing it.

    I was addressing effectiveness. Reagon had corruption in his administration, yet he was effective. Carter was not.

  161. 161

    we were unclear then.

    I was referring directly to corruption.

    Pol Pot was effective too (notice I didn’t use Hitler!). Effectiveness at the cost of ethics is a step in the wrong direction for this country, and is a longterm detriment.

  162. 162

    Thanks for clearing that up, and lettingme do the same.

    I think that it is too subjective to leave in simple terms. I have more to say, but i have to leave. Maybe tonight.

  163. 163

    You just gotta wonder– all this and you still haven’t figured out the outrage behind the anti-Christmas nazis telling everyone to STOP saying Merry Christmas.

  164. 164

    There is no War on Christmas, you fools! It’s just another ploy by the likes of Bill O’ Reilly and company to keep you fixated on nonsense while the real travesty of our freedoms being eroded away by the powers that be continues unabated. Do you think anyone who lost everything during Hurricane Katrina and is now living in the subsidized cardboard box gives a god damn about someone saying “Merry Christmas” versus “Happy Holidays”? Do you think anyone who had the grave misfortune of having their sorry asses sent over to Iraq to get half of their body blown off by a makeshift bomb gives a flying fuck whether there is a so-called War on Christmas going on here when they’re fighting a real war where people DIE and go home with parts of their body missing? But the powers that be love this shit, don’t they? They can work everyone into a frenzy over the most insignificant bullshit while they keep things status quo and continue to divert billions of dollars from the poor and give it to the corporations and wealthy that are so magnanimous that they just horde it for themselves while everyone else suffers. You all need to WAKE THE FUCK UP!

    To all the right winger dickheads I’d like to say give it a rest. You people take yourself way too seriously. Now drop this whole War on Christmas nonsense and put in your Passion of the Christ DVD and chill out. Please! And all you liberals that get worked up over these wackjobs should just drop it, too. You see there wouldn’t be an issue at all if the people that are supposedly waging this war just let it go. It takes two to tango as they say, and if we don’t show up to the party, the nutjobs dance alone. Get it? So to the “secularists” I say let it go and go back to your Bad Santa DVD and just chill out. Christmas is both a secular holiday AND a religious holiday. You’ve got your peanut butter in my chocolate. No, you’ve got YOUR chocolate in my peanut butter. Hey, fuckwad. It’s still a god-damned Reese’s Peanut Butter cup. Just eat the fucking thing and get fat like the rest of us. The true believers can have their Christmas and celebrate the birth of a man they know nothing about, and the rest of us can go out and buy shit we don’t need and give it to people who don’t want it. That’s what keeps this country going. If you take that away, our economy tanks, the country goes bankrupt, and we’ll just become a nation of puritans that nobody wants to party with. Even the Indians couldn’t let that happen. After all, we did just celebrate the big Thanksgiving holiday to commemorate that wonderful love fest, and look how it ended up for the Indians. Maybe the world would have been better off if they had just done the American thing and let them starve to death that winter.

    In closing, I’d like to offer a bit of concession to all those that find it troubling that people and stores prefer to use the term “Happy Holidays” during this time of the year. To you I have just one last thing to say that I hope offers some capitulation for your grievances:

    Merry Christmas, Asshole!

    Are you happy now? Oh, and by the way, Happy Birthday, Jesus.

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