After getting pummeled in races all over the Eastside, you’d think GOP clowns might wonder how they lost the confidence of suburban voters. While Republicans got horsewhipped on all sorts of issues, no issue united moderate suburban swing voters more than transportation.
A little background…
In ’05, the GOP lined up in favor of I-912, while Eastside cities voted against it. Sen. Luke Esser, citing his personal pledge to always send tax increases to a vote of the people, turned down a billion dollars for a new 520 bridge. In ’06, voters turned Luke Esser out on his ass. Bellevue Republicans like Jennifer Dunn tried to block a Federal grant for Sound Transit. Today, Bellevue city leaders are arguing over exactly how Sound Transit light rail should go through downtown Bellevue. The Eastside is trending Democratic because, in many cases the GOP is against the kind of “big government” suburban folks seem to want more of.
Where are GOP activists on transportation these days? Eric Earling is on the case, and he defends spending money on light rail because, well, people seem to want it:
The honest truth is a region composed of suburbs surrounding an urban center needs both transit options and significant spending on roads. Both are necessary for reasons of transportation planning and political demand.
Stefan is not convinced that supporting the RTID package is worth it if we get more “awful” light rail:
Exactly how is light rail “necessary”? And at what price is it still desirable? And since when is existence of “political demand” a good reason for voters and taxpayers to support a disastrous policy?
Anti-government types cannot fathom how folks would want to pay more sales tax for something that’s going to get them out of traffic. Perhaps light rail is a bad idea, but it seems to be a very popular bad idea.
In cities where light rail is built, folks are always skeptical. Why not just pour more money into buses? It’s cheaper! You hear folks say that. In Tacoma, their light rail line started as a bus line. During the first year light rail operated, the ridership had quintupled. Five times as many people rode rail as rode the bus! Buses don’t have that appeal, and they don’t go as fast, and they don’t spur development. There’s no wonder why Tacoma residents are demanding that the line be extended.
Even though Sound Transit’s initial light rail line isn’t finished, plans are being made for expansion east over I-90 to Bellevue and perhaps to Redmond. As a former Eastsider, I can tell you, folks out there are not quite as “gung-ho” on transit investment as your typical Seattle types. Don’t get me wrong, they like their Park & Rides, and they like those fancy commuter busses. Eastside leaders have done their homework and asked tough questions of Sound Transit. On the Eastside, folks of both political parties have come to the conclusion that light rail is something they want, and will benefit their cities well into the future.
Perhaps the most compelling argument I’ve seen for increased investment in transit comes from an unlikely source: conservative/libertarian columnist Paul Weyrich. Here are his thoughts on the issue.
I have written [articles] making the conservative case for rail transit, including streetcars. It seems the public agrees with us because while in State after State conservatives have won ballot initiatives in many of these same States transit initiatives also have won. The libertarians have made the case that money for public transit is a waste. They want more roads. That is a form of subsidized transportation as well. But they don’t see it that way because individuals can drive. However, in city after city which has adopted light rail an overflow crowd has elected to use it as opposed to driving.
Also, this amazing fact:
In 2004 the huge transit program in Denver, promising 118 miles of new rail lines, passed with support from Republican counties. The Democratic counties in the transit district voted no. Before any more propaganda is put forth by libertarians on the issue of support for public transit, folks ought to look at the facts. Who has voted for transit? And who is riding it once it is built? When those facts are evaluated the libertarian arguments go up in smoke. [Emphasis added]
If the GOP in friggin’ Denver can understand the benefits of light rail, why can’t these guys?
They are actively involved in a campaign of intentional ignorance, that`s why
“And since when is existence of ‘“political demand’ a good reason for voters and taxpayers to support a disastrous policy?”
He was talking about the neoCONjob military adventure in Iraq, right?
No slack for the GOP on the East side of the lake but, they tried to ride out the “no new taxes, let the voters decide, cut taxes even at the expense of proven needs” line of strategy for two too many elections. The “do nothing expensive” strategy is a required partner with not supporting steps to pay for anything. This worked all too well in 94 and 96 and in some of the following elections. But if you fail to invest in the future, eventually the future catches up with you. So the free ride is over.
The truth is out! Mass transit is a Republican plot to freeload off the lower income households who pay a disproportionate share of sales taxes.
This was the same Republican-led ethics board which didn’t seem to make any findings against Republicans, doing NOTHING for years despite multiple grand jury investigations and indictments, yet takes the time upon leaving office to complain that McDermot’s leak “undermined their ethics process”.
McDermot clearly understood, upon hearing the tape, that the Republican leadership’s ethics “process” was going to be to try clear Gingrich and spin the whole issue against the Democrats. Giving the tape to the Republican ethics committee chair would have had the same effect as burning it.
Notice that the “ethics committee” didn’t blame him for receiving the tape, or listening to it, which is the crux of the civil complaint? Instead, it only complains that he didn’t turn it over to the (Republican-controlled) ethics committee, instead? Makes you wonder how many NSA tapes the Republicans have collected in their file cabinets, and what they intend to do with them.
The libertarian argument against mass transit of any sort is based on the postulate that private cars on roads allow us all to “go wherever we want to”.
I dunno about the rest of you, but I get up in the morning and go where someone else (my employer) wants me to go (the office). If I should choose on a whim to just jump in my car and go to Albuquerque, there would be adverse consequences. It may give me some nice little feeling deep down inside that I could still say the hell with it and do such a thing, but that still doesn’t come anywhere near making up for the time I spend crawling along at 5 miles per hour with all the other lemmings on 520.
9 Makes you wonder how many NSA tapes the Republicans have collected in their file cabinets, and what they intend to do with them.
What’s there to wonder about? We know that ever since Nixon, these bastards have been violating our constitutional rights every chance they get, and lying about it every time they’re asked about what they’re up to, and that they’re going to use these illegal tapes for partisan gain because they know Nazis can’t win an honest election.
Back on topic:
Last summer I was in Japan, and it was amazing to switch between the Monorail, the Subway, and the JL Line to get to just about anywhere in Toky you wanted to go. The wait time to the next train was rarely more than five minutes. They now even have ticket-dispensing machines which you can change to English with the press of a button. The trains run almost to midnight, and then they start again early in the morning.
But here, bus service diminishes considerably after the peak rush hour, and if you aren’t going to/from downtown Seattle, it gets pretty complicated.
I used to enjoy riding the office when I worked in downtown Seattle. It was cheap, and I got to read the paper or a book. But when they reduced the available bus times so I had to leave the office by 5:30 PM to catch the last 5:40 direct bus to my park&ride, regardless of what was happening that day, it was no longer feasable. Now I work in Bellevue, and trying to get to/from Bellevue from Everett is a long trip with several transfers, and actually costs more than driving.
So I’d love to see a light rail which went up/down I-5 and I-405. Especially after the Monday night “commute from hell”, when a little snow and ice turned my commute home into an 8-1/2 hour marathon.
“…During the first year light rail operated, the ridership had quintupled. Five times as many people rode rail as rode the bus!” ????
Did I just read you right? Of course it went up 5x’s,, it was free!!!!! To attract ridership and be able to give numbers to the uneducated public the light rail in Tacoma was free to everybody.
Have you seen the effing scorecard of light rail promises vs. actuals in WA state? Geebus.
I’m not arguing who voted for what, or your premise, but get your facts straight. Parroting those ridership numbers in particular is exactly why people who don’t inform themselves vote for bullshit like that.
How about all the people in the cities that have implemented a rail system that ride? What is the percentage of communities that have actualized a decrease in freeway congestion? Few.
14 You’ll never realize a decrease in freeway traffic. If you add more lanes, it’ll attract more development, ergo more cars — plus, people will drive more. The only thing that will inhibit freeway traffic is higher gas prices than we’ve seen. What these mass transit systems do is keep the congestion from getting worse than it would be without them. But only if people ride them. An empty bus or light rail car doesn’t affect freeway congestion at all. Transit must be designed to be convenient, to get people where they want to go, and to be safe and comfortable.
The reason why many in the GOP in this state don’t get it is simple: Kemper Freeman. He’s a big GOP sugar daddy and has spent millions in a losing effort to get us all to build more freeways than we could possibly fit into this place, even if we had the money for them – or the desire to pave over everything. Most people in the GOP are afraid of Kemper, who is outside of his skin on the topic, so they don’t speak up as he drags the entire GOP down with him.
If you have light rail AND highways you can make an INDIVIDUAL CHOICE as to whether to use rail or highway. For that reason alone Libertarians should be atwitter over light rail.
ANTI-LIBERAL – TWO WORDS: NOVEMBER SEVENTH.
YOUR KIND HAS BEEN VOTED OUT. LEMME APPROPRIATE AN OLD WINGERISM – THE MORE YOU OPEN YOUR TRAP, THE MORE DISCREDITED AND UNPOPULAR YOU GET.
SO KEEP DOING IT.
Rabbit:
I’m 100% for rail that makes sense. In Western WA street level rail does not really make sense. Something along the line of an EL does. And this piddly shit that WA is doing is a waste of time and money. I love DC’s system, and BC’s system is getting there. In order for WA to get something that makes sense the people of this side of the state are going to have to nut up and spend a boat load of money. Otherwise we are going to get exactly what we have now; a bunch of tiny little bandaids over a huge gaping arterial bleed.
Just to note:
I’ll be deleting comments that have nothing to do with the post.
Thanks,
-Will
msrc guy @ 9
The bus that preceded the Tacoma rail line was free as well.
My point is that people who might not ride a bus (cramped, stinky, slow as heck) are a lot more likely to ride rail (it’s much faster).
As far as light rail promises, I’m not sure what you mean. Sound Transit thought they could build rail from the UW to Sea-Tac for 6,000 bucks and a case of Mickey’s. They were wrong in their estimate. The investment is pricey, but the reward is so good even a conservative like Weyrich likes it.
will
Sound Transit was turned down by the voters a couple times before the govt. shills sold them a bill of goods they could not deliver. So far there is no part of ST that is within budget, or even close, or on time. As a matter of fact a line that is approx. 30% shorter is going to cost more than what they “promissed” the entire project would cost, and take longer. Of Course with a smaller line cost recoupe will be smaller as well. And since The Sounder’s ridership never came close to what they thought it would it is reasonable to project the same onto ST.
Again, I’m for mass transit. I’m for it in a big way. But the way the rubes in charge in our state have gone about it is a huge boondoggle.
“AWOL Soldier Who Didn’t Protest War Gets Slap On Wrist
“FORT LEWIS — A soldier who refused to return to Iraq after saying she had been sexually harassed pleaded guilty Wednesday to missing movement and being absent without leave and was sentenced to 30 days of confinement, the Army said in a news release.”
Quoted under Fair Use; for complete story and/or copyright info, read the Fish Wrapper at http://tinyurl.com/ynx9qt
Roger Rabbit Commentary: If she had held a press conference and said “I’m not going back to Iraq because I oppose the war,” she would’ve got 30 years or maybe even a firing squad.
Army Severely Punishes Victim of Sexual Harassment
“FORT LEWIS — A soldier who refused to return to Iraq after saying she had been sexually harassed pleaded guilty Wednesday to missing movement and being absent without leave and was sentenced to 30 days of confinement, the Army said in a news release.
“Suzanne Swift, 22, of Eugene, Ore., also received a demotion, from specialist to private ….
“Swift said her supervisor in Iraq coerced her into a sexual relationship and that other colleagues had harassed or abused her. The Army substantiated her allegations against one soldier … [who] received a written reprimand ….”
Quoted under Fair Use; for complete story and/or copyright info, read the Fish Wrapper at http://tinyurl.com/ynx9qt
Roger Rabbit Commentary: The victim goes to jail and the harasser gets “a reprimand”? A fucking reprimand?! She should have fragged the fucker! We should copy this news story and make it required reading for every female high school student whose name is given to Army recruiters.
18, 19 The Army has a double standard. Military justice is a fucking joke. Every parent should know this and talk to their kids about it before the recruiters can get at them.
All you high school kids out there — especially females — listen up. Here’s how military law works. If your superior rapes you, the Army “reprimands” him. But if you miss movement to keep your superior from raping you again, the Army throws your young ass in their fucking stockade.
I just wanted you to know that before the recruiter shows you his glossy brochures of Mediterranean resorts and promises you “fun, travel, and adventure.”*
* I wouldn’t expect any of you wingnut weasels who dodged the draft during Vietnam to know that “FTA” is an inside joke. It stands for “fun, travel, and adventure.” But that’s not all — it also stands for “fuck the Army.”
ROGER RABBIT POLL
My polling service is asking 10,000 randomly selected soldiers what “FTA” stands for. The poll question is:
What does “FTA” stand for?
[ ] 1. Fun, travel, and adventure
[ ] 2. Fuck the Army
Results will be announced shortly.
RESULTS OF ROGER RABBIT POLL
The poll is finished and here are the official results:
Total number of soldiers contacted: 10,061
Number of soldiers who responded to poll: 8,114
Poll answers
[ ] 1. Fun, travel, and adventure – 0
[X] 2. Fuck the Army – 8,114
@ 17
Actually, it was turned down once, in ’94. Voters approved a shorter line in ’96.
Democrats offer Republicans key committee posts
“By David Ammons
“The Associated Press
“OLYMPIA — House Democrats on Wednesday awarded two Republicans top committee posts, a concrete sign that Democrats intend to reach across the political aisle, House leaders said.
“Rep. Tom Campbell, R-Roy, will be chairman of the newly formed Select Committee on Environmental Health, and Rep. Maureen Walsh, R-College Place, will be vice chairwoman of the House Committee on Early Learning & Children’s Services. …
“House Speaker Frank Chopp, D-Seattle, said, ‘Good ideas and leadership do not come from just one side of the aisle. The continued prosperity of Washington state depends on all of us working together cooperatively.’
“Majority Leader Lynn Kessler, D-Hoquiam, said that despite their larger new majority, Democrats plan to work with all members, including freshmen and Republicans ….
“‘Honestly, we wanted to reach out to them,’ she said.
“‘It’s an incredible honor. You couldn’t ask for better treatment,’ Campbell said. He also got his other committee requests, Transportation and Health Care. …
“Walsh was delighted. ‘I commend the Democrats for extending an olive branch across the aisle … giving a vice chairmanship to a Republican was a bold thing to do. …'”
Quoted under Fair Use; for complete story and/or copyright info see http://tinyurl.com/vrmjl
Roger Rabbit Commentary: You can bet if the shoe was on the other foot, Republicans would freeze Democrats out of legislative decision-making, as they did in Congress. But we’re better than they are.
FEC Fines ‘Swift Boat’ Liars For 2004 Political Activity
“By Richard Simon
“Los Angeles Times
“WASHINGTON — In 2004, Swift Boat Veterans and POWs for Truth played a highly visible role in the presidential campaign by running ads in key states questioning the Vietnam War record of the Democratic candidate, Sen. John Kerry, and charging that ‘he cannot be trusted.’ …
“Both operated as ‘527’ organizations, which … are able, under campaign finance regulations, to raise unlimited amounts of cash to raise the public’s awareness of issues.
“But those overtly partisan activities crossed the line, the Federal Election Commission ruled Wednesday, fining both groups for failing to register as political committees, which have much stricter fundraising rules, and for raising millions of dollars over the limits that apply to such committees. The Swift Boat group was fined $299,500 ….
“Campaign watchdog organizations scorned the action as ‘too little, too late’ ….
“‘Effective enforcement of the campaign finance laws cannot be established through a case-by-case approach that resolves massive violations of campaign finance laws more than two years after a presidential election with a fine that is a small fraction of the millions of dollars illegally spent to influence the election,’ officials of Democracy 21 and the Campaign Legal Center said in a statement. They had joined a third watchdog organization, the Center for Responsive Politics, in filing a complaint against the Swift Boat group in 2004. …
“In the case of the Swift Boat group, the FEC disputed its assertion that it merely wanted to shed light on Kerry’s record, saying its goal was clearly the Democrat’s defeat. As such, the FEC concluded, the group should have registered as a political committee and come under the $5,000-per-year donor limit. The FEC found that the group accepted about $12.5 million in individual contributions in excess of the limit for political committees and more than $715,000 in prohibited corporate donations.”
Quoted under Fair Use; for complete story and/or copyright info, see http://tinyurl.com/sfekb
Roger Rabbit Commentary: Fining these criminals is meaningless. The FEC should have annulled the election and declared Kerry the rightful winner, taking office effective immediately.
WILL – THANK YOU!
Oregon Senator Will Propose National Health Care
“WASHINGTON — In another sign that health care will return as a major issue when Democrats take over Congress next month, a prominent Democratic senator unveiled an ambitious proposal Wednesday to provide medical insurance for all Americans while also reining in costs.
“The plan by Sen. Ron Wyden of Oregon … would guarantee coverage for all …. But it also would limit employers’ exposure to relentless cost increases and encourage workers to shop for cost-effective insurance plans ….
“‘The last time America tried to fix health care was in 1993 and 1994. Since then, employer-based coverage has been melting away like a Popsicle in the sun,’ Wyden said. ‘Business leaders in 1994 who said “We can’t afford to reform health care” are now saying, “We can’t afford not to reform health care.” …
“Americans together spend more than $2 trillion a year on health care. The returns on that investment are uneven, with many insured patients getting less than optimal care and millions of workers unable to afford health coverage, which costs about $12,000 to $13,000 a year for a family plan.
“Employers traditionally have provided health-care coverage for workers and their families as part of overall compensation … [but] corporate leaders are questioning whether the system can be sustained ….
“Wyden’s plan would require employers to continue contributing toward the cost of health coverage, but it would get them out of … f directly providing insurance and limit their exposure to … inflation. … [M]ost companies would pay the government a health-care contribution resembling a payroll tax. Using the money from their employers, individuals would be required to purchase private insurance policies through state purchasing pools … premiums for the poor would be fully subsidized by the government, and middle-class families … would be eligible for help on a sliding scale.
“Premiums from individuals and contributions from employers would be collected by the government through the tax system and distributed to insurers. Once enrolled, individuals would be covered until retirement. …
“An analysis by [a] consulting firm said the plan would … save $1.4 trillion in total national health-care spending over the next decade.”
Quoted under Fair Use; for complete story and/or copyright info, see http://tinyurl.com/yl85j2
Roger Rabbit Commentary: This hits close to home for millions of voters. If the Democratic Congress passes this and Bush vetoes it, he’ll be handing the White House to the Democrats in ’08. Let’s give him the opportunity.
If only Ron Sims would leave the rail line as a rail line and not turn it into a pre industrial age trail…
29 Hey brer wingnut — yer gonna need that bunny trail when the oil runs out. HAR HAR HAR
Esser lost his seat precisely due to his opposition to transportation taxes. But now everyone knows you don’t build bridges and freeways by cutting a few “chiselers” off welfare. The voters know that considerable revenues are needed for major transportation improvements. There’s no reason why this should be a partisan issue, but Republicans have got stuck in a rut of ignoring long-term policy questions, looking only to the next election, which they think they will win only by opposing whatever taxes are not yet eliminated.
time to bag it. Rabbit has decided to flood the comments section again. Goldy seems to have gotten rid of the spam but Rabbit is doing his due dilligence to make up for it and make us wade through his bullshit cut and paste to actually read a comment.
@ 32 msrc guy
Roger’s comment pollution is less odious than most, so it gets ignored by Goldy.
“The electric streetcar, contrary to Van Wilkin’s incredible naïve whitewash, did not die a natural death: General Motors killed it. GM killed it by employing a host of anti-competitive devices which, like National City Lines, debased rail transit and promoted auto sales.”
The StreetCar Conspiracy
How General Motors Deliberately Destroyed Public Transit
http://www.lovearth.net/gmdeli.....troyed.htm
click on link to read the entire article
I think it’s a little school-marmish to have “Will” editing the comment thread for relevance.
His own comment isn’t relevant.
26 300 grand? Richard Scaife’s wrists must really be smarting from that one.
28 I wonder if McDermott’s going to introduce a corresponding measure in the House.
34 I’ve always suspected it was by design that the buses GM Truck & Coach sold to the cities to replace their streetcars had those incredibly noisy, smoky, two-stroke “Jimmy screamer” diesel engines. It didn’t take long at all before the public learned to associate “transit” with noise, discomfort and Ralph Kramden.
@ 35
I don’t mean to seem marmish. Folks we posting about Jim McDermott and Newt Gingrich, intentionally trying to derail the thread (so to speak). I’m wishing I didn’t let the genie of comment deletion out of the lamp.
Will says: Just to note: I’ll be deleting comments that have nothing to do with the post. Thanks, -Will 12/14/2006 at 2:45 pm
Will lied. Look at all the nonsensical posts from Furball on this thread.
Will should have written: I’ll be deleting comments from righties that have nothing to do with the post. Lefties are just fine!
40 Cry me a river, MWS!
Isn’t Bellevue city council like 100% republican?
33: Roger gets ignored by more than just Goldstein.
re 40: Now yer gettin’ it. Bye Bye! (HEHEHEHEHEHE)
Rail planned poorly can backfire. Seattle’s Link light rail will probably become one of the worst performing rail systems in the US. Don’t assume I’m writing this warning like I’m an anti-rail rightwinger, Mr Goldy.
re 45: So — explain what you mean?
An interesting post, and comments. The most telling one (Bellevue to Everett) gets to the heart of urban transit failure; its inability to move beyond the hub-and spoke central city focus. The car-pool or ride-share is a start on this, but the transit systems seem to want monuments to the issues of the 1920’s rather than to solving the current issues. Most people who live in the area don’t work in downtown. A graph of the routes would produce a scattergram, with a few routes getting more travel but most travel being between non-central points. Public transit simply does not address most travel routes. And even when it does, it requires the traveller to walk or drive for blocks or miles to even get to the transit.
Being against all public transit is a loser, as you pointed out, but for some reason public transit can’t think in terms of smaller markets and alternate solutions.
14 In order for WA to get something that makes sense the people of this side of the state are going to have to nut up and spend a boat load of money. Otherwise we are going to get exactly what we have now; a bunch of tiny little bandaids over a huge gaping arterial bleed.
That’s okay with me IF the cost is borne primarily by the people who use the transportation system and can afford to pay the higher taxes this will require. But if higher property taxes and/or sales taxes must be borne by retirees like me — on an inflation-vulnerable fixed income, and struggling with high health care costs — then I’m a “no” vote at the ballot box. Veggies on my table come before transportation for other people to use. I think you can understand that; the question is, will the politicians understand it?
47: I’m surprised by Sound Transit’s complete lack of interest in carsharing. Station cars located at suburban transit centers complete the transit network, letting you get to office parks, strip malls and subdivisions unreachable on the bus. A small fleet of vehicles can serve multiple users every day: those renting by the hour to run errands during the day, and commuters who have a monthly plan and drive them home at night. Perfect application for plug in hybids.
Flexcar is showing us the future, but needs to be scaled up. It could provide the last mile suburban connections needed to make our shiny new trains useful for most people.
What it costs is half the ball game; who bears the costs is the other half of the ball game.
@32 I’m giving you valuable information. What you do with it is up to you.
Will @33 — Not sure what you mean by Goldy “ignoring” comment “pollution.” Goldy has never censored or banned anyone, not even JCH. The only deletions I’m aware of were when imposters used other peoples’ screen names.
Plus the misc. porn, Rx, and misc. robo-spam.
Besides, with wingnuts, you have to repeat everything at least 50 times or it doesn’t take. Trying to impart information to a wingnut is like trying to grow orchids in a cat box.
As a teacher, Ms. Jones, was very curious about how each of her students celebrated Christmas. She called on young Patrick Murphy. “Tell me Patrick what do you do at Christmas time?”, she asked.
Patrick addressed the class, “Well Ms. Jones, me and my twelve brothers and sisters go to the midnight Mass and we sing hymns, then we come home very late and we put mince pies by the back door and hang up our stockings. Then all excited we go to bed and wait for Father Christmas to come with all our toys”.
“Very nice Patrick”, she said. “Now, Jimmy Brown what do you do at Christmas?”
“Well, Ms. Jones, me and my sister also go to Church with Mum and Dad and we sing carols and we get home ever so late. We put cookies and milk by the chimney and we hang up our stockings. We hardly sleep, waiting for Santa Claus to bring our presents.”
Realizing there was a Jewish boy in the class and not wanting to leave him out of the discussion, she asked, “Now, Isaac Cohen, what do you do at Christmas?”
Isaac said, “Well, it’s the same thing every year. Dad comes home from the office. We all pile into the Rolls Royce, then we drive to his toy factory. When we get inside, we look at all the empty shelves and begin to sing ‘What a Friend We Have in Jesus’. Then we all go to the Bahamas.
36 Scaife didn’t dip his fingers into this particular pie. The Swift Boat liars were funded by Texas homebuilder and Dubya pal Bob J. Perry ($4.45 million), billionaire businessman Harold Simmons of leveraged buyout fame ($3 million),($2 million), along with a gang of smaller (i.e., 6-figure) donors comprised of the usual GOP suspects.
correction: 36 should read …
36 Scaife didn’t dip his fingers into this particular pie. The Swift Boat liars were funded by Texas homebuilder and Dubya pal Bob J. Perry ($4.45 million), billionaire businessman Harold Simmons of leveraged buyout fame ($3 million), corporate raider Boone Pickens ($2 million), along with a gang of smaller (i.e., 6-figure) donors comprised of the usual GOP suspects.
whoops I meant 56 should read … somebody’s pumping carbon monoxide into my hole again …
39 If you mean me, I’m not trying to derail the thread, but I treat all threads as open threads.
15 If you do, I won’t be one of your fans for very long.
40 Mike Webb SUCKS says: Will lied. Look at all the nonsensical posts from Furball on this thread. Will should have written: I’ll be deleting comments from righties that have nothing to do with the post. Lefties are just fine!
12/14/2006 at 6:05 pm
Yeah, the comment numbers are off; it looks like some got popped. I don’t support that; and I especially don’t support unequal treatment for righties and lefties. That would turn this blog into just-another-colorless-uninteresting-partisan-blog. Screw that! Washington doesn’t need two SPs. I like Goldy’s wide-open, free-for-all format. Changing that would ruin this blog. Righties NEVER say anything relevant; and if there are no righties to kick around, there’s no reason to be here.
Please keep bending over, MWS, so I can keep kicking your useless, unpatriotic, American-hating ass.
43 dutch says: Roger gets ignored by more than just Goldstein. 12/14/2006 at 6:55 pm
I can’t think of a single wingnut on this board who ignores me, or whose chain I can’t pull. You have an opportunity to be the first.
47 You nailed it. Tens of thousands of people work in downtown offices; for some of them, the park-and-ride based, hub-and-spoke express bus system is a lesser evil than dealing with downtown traffic and paying for downtown parking. But that’s the only demographic that Seattle’s transit system works for. If your job takes you out of downtown, forget it.
msrc @ 17–you really should look into Sound Transit before you spout opinions. Yes, they fucked up royally on their initial projections for light rail. They were a new agency and learned the hard way. I think there is always a growth curve for any new venture–government or business.
But in the last five years since they hired a new CEO, tightened board controls, and shortened the initial line–they have become much more efficient. Indeed, almost all of their contracts come in on time and often under budget. They have opened tons of stuff and light rail is on its way.
Look at the plans for ST 2 and you will see a good plan for future construction of a regional system.
As for Roger–do what I do, scroll through. Although he is bright and a good lefty, he posts too much, too often. So, don’t get mad, move on.
I’d be MORE for light rail if it actually accomplished getting cars off the road. But it doesn’t.
We need to build more general purpose lanes…
I think the overall approach from traffic planners in the region has been, “how do we get people out of their single occupancy vehicle?”
I think the approach should be, “How do we move single occupancy vehicles more efficiently about the region?”
It is no surprise when suburbanites turn in favor of light rail. Busses are a poor transit system for poor people. When the well off want to ride transit, they want trains.
A typical trip between the hours of 3:30 PM and 6:00 PM from Redmond to my house in Seattle takes 90 minutes to 2 hours. If it takes only an hour, my wife thinks there must have been a holiday no one told her about. Anyone who thinks enough traffic lanes will ever be built on 520 and 405 to mitigate that situation is smoking some heavy dope.
Even if “enough” lanes were possible, the environment couldn’t take it.
Eastsiders aren’t dumb, only short sighted. But, not that shortsighted.
Unless the mindset changes from ” less cars” to “effieciently moving cars” we’ll never see an end the the two hour Redmond to Seattle commute.
Yes, we need MORE gp lanes. The lane capacity has not kept oup with growth. The reality is that people are not going to give up their cars. Especially anyone with children.
That is reality. The only dope being smoked is by those who don’t regognize that people are not going to give up their cars for transit. Light rail will end up being a heavily subsidised mode of transit for a relative few versus the cars on the road……
Right Stuff @ 67:
The reality is that people are not going to give up their cars. Especially anyone with children.
My children, wife and I get around by Skytrain whenever possible in BC. The reason has very little to do with virtue. It has to do with that the Skytrain gets us from East Van into the downtown core faster than a car would, and does not involve shelling out $10/hour for parking.
In Seattle, we get around by car for similar pragmatic reasons. The bus is painfully slow, service is unreliable (every 15-20 minutes on weekends) and parking can usually be had reasonably cheaply.
If we had a transit system in Seattle that worked, we would use that. At this time, it does not exist. We’ll see how the Light Rail works come 2009.
Some anti-rail folks say that light rail will not reduce congestion. I don’t think it will either. But that’s not the point of rail.
NYC has awful congestion, but the subway and commuter trains are so good, few people drive into the city.
In Seattle, taking the bus is for suckers. In NYC, Boston, Chicago, and other places with great transit, driving is for suckers.
If Sound Transit is promising congestion relief, they shouldn’t. The Greater Seattle area is growing by leaps and bounds. We can never relieve congestion on our freeways. I think I read that it would take 14 lanes on I-5 to “reduce congestion” to zero. No way.
Unless we are able to relieve congestion in this region, businesses will continue to look elsewhere to locate.
My position is not anti-light rail. Light rail has some merrit. My position is more in line with the premiss that folks aren’t going to give up their vehicles (freedom) therefore we need a plan that accounts for cars in a realistic way. Carpool lanes, and light rail are not adressing the problems we face now. The NYC example is not very good. San Jose might be better. Another way of putting it is; “stop trying to engineer me out of my car, and build roads” And before we get to the whole debate of paying for roads or a “use tax”, we already pay a “use tax” in the form of a very high gas tax rate.
Well, stop trying to engineer me into a car!
we already pay a “use tax” in the form of a very high gas tax rate
IF THE TAX WAS THREE PENNIES A GALLON AND EVERY OTHER STATE CHARGED TWO, THE WINGNUTS WOULD CRY ABOUT HOW THEY ARE OVERTAXED BY 33%.
THEN THEY’D RUN A BALLOT INITIATIVE TO ELIMINATE IT. NEW ROADS, BRIDGES, MAINTENANCE, REPAIR? ANYBODY BUT ME SHOULD PAY FOR THAT STUFF!! SO SAYETH THE WINGNUT.
67 “Light rail will end up being a heavily subsidised mode of transit for a relative few versus the cars on the road……”
Well, you’re right, dude, in a way. It’ll be for the people with the brains and adaptability to take that alternative, instead of wasting their time sitting in their cars with the rest of the lemmings.
If Seattle could ever develop a system as good as the Metro in DC, I would imagine people would leave their cars behind in droves. San Francisco’s BART and Portland’s MAX are other good examples. Hey, I love my car and I love to drive. But, when I’m in those cities, Metro/Bart/Max are so easy and efficient to use, that I’m glad to leave my car behind.
Another thing you all should consider is how the Greater Seattle is viewed by those of us who don’t live there. 20 years ago, we would often wake up on a weekend morning and decide to visit the Seattle area to play and look around. Thus, spending our dollars in Seattle restaurants and stores. It used to be a fun place to go.
I’ve visited Seattle maybe 3 times in the last 2 years. Once to go to a Mariner game on a fan bus so we didn’t have to hassle with the driving. Once to go to a Sonic game and we will probably never go to another one because of the PITA it was to get to it (no wonder they’re leaving). And once to fly out of Sea-Tac. And that was unusual for us because we now usually opt to drive south to Portland to fly. It actually takes a bit longer but it’s a more enjoyable drive with far less congestion both on the highway to get there and at the airport itself.
We used to be season ticket holders at the 5th Avenue but we let that lapse because traffic over-rode the fun we used to have at the theater. We seek out plays that may be less grand in the way of sets and costumes but are, overall, more enjoyable than coming to Seattle because we don’t have to hassle with traffic. We also used to buy mini-packages to Mariner games, usually to 10 games/year, but we don’t do that anymore either. The traffic has turned us off from that, too.
I avoid coming to Seattle like the plague. I know a LOT of other people who also avoid going to Seattle and don’t do the things they used to do up your way. You’re losing a lot of revenue from people like us.