Hendrik Hertzberg writes about the proposed Islamic center in lower Manhattan, a few blocks from Ground Zero:
Like many New Yorkers, the people in charge of Park51, a married couple, are from somewhere else—he from Kuwait, she from Kashmir. Feisal Abdul Rauf is a Columbia grad. He has been the imam of a mosque in Tribeca for close to thirty years. He is the author of a book called “What’s Right with Islam Is What’s Right with America.” He is a vice-chair of the Interfaith Center of New York. “My colleagues and I are the anti-terrorists,” he wrote recently—in the Daily News, no less. He denounces terrorism in general and the 9/11 attacks in particular, often and at length. The F.B.I. tapped him to conduct “sensitivity training” for agents and cops. His wife, Daisy Khan, runs the American Society for Muslim Advancement, which she co-founded with him. It promotes “cultural and religious harmony through interfaith collaboration, youth and women’s empowerment, and arts and cultural exchange.”
As someone who often trolls the right-wing blogs, this proposed center (which sounds a lot like the Jewish Community Center where I used to go to day camp when I was 6) is seen by many as some kind of threat. Coincidentally, these are the same people who talk about how Obama is going to take away their “freedom” and how much they care about the Constitution. Every day that goes by and every issue that comes up just lifts the veil on that charade. America’s right wing is motivated primarily by one thing – an irrational fear of our multicultural society. Everything else is just talk.
Once again irony (and emotion) rules the universe. I’ve heard on from the right for ages “why don’t more Muslims come out against terrorism and extremism”. Ok. So here’s the folks that DO just that. The folks who DON’T want to kill all non-believers and in fact run an “interfaith” group (you know, other religions). This is EXACTLY the type of pro-American anti-terrorist Muslims the folks on the right have said they wanted to hear from all along. So what’s the problem?
Granted putting this being near ground zero is emotional, but nearly all of lower Manhattan is ‘near’ ground zero. I sincerely don’t think they planned this as a spit in the face to anyone, but perhaps because of the emotional impact, it could be put in mid-town. I try to imagine if a splinter group of Catholics bombed a holy Hindu site in India, then a Methodist church tried to open up a center near the site. It would probably be met with much of the same emotion, even though you could explain that the original attack was a minority splinter group, and that these Christians (Methodists) aren’t even the same denomination as the group that did the original attack…none of that would matter would it?
And by the way, out of a billion people (Muslims) you only need a tiny percentage, say 1/1000th to be radical nuts to still have a million nutballs to contend with. We’re only dealing with, and hear about, the craziest folks. You don’t HEAR about the 998,231,361 Muslims who just go to work and raise their families and aren’t terrorists…you just hear about the most angry/crazy percentage. Muslims are just as diverse as Christians (Catholics, Baptists, Mormon, Amish, Unitarians). It’s not one big magical block. So I suppose we could start with not talking about them as if they’ll all the same people with the same ideas and philosophy.
Lee,
As you well know, our wingies have no desire to consider what is, what should be, what could be. They are lost in a past that never was, yet none of them recognize that. They are hopeless.
for the “eliminate frivolous lawsuits” crowd.
I guess it doesn’t sink in that if the city or state tells any group of people that can lawfully purchase and develop a property within zoning laws that they aren’t allowed to due to religion (protected class) will result in a giant payout.
And the righties will scream that it’s outrageous that a judge interpreted anti-discrimination law pretty much exactly in the manner it was written.
Is NYC right wing? 51% of New Yorkers don’t mosque built on ground zero. 66% of registered voters in NYC are Democrats. New York City has not been won by a Republican in a Presidential or statewide election since 1924. New York City is split between 13 of the state’s 29 congressional districts, all held by Democrats.
Doesn’t sound like NYC is very right wing, does it, Lee?
Here’s my question … why is Islam is incapable of producing Muslim countries in which Muslims themselves want to live?
Like Lee, I think putting this near the 9/11 site ought to be promoted as a triumph of Americanism.
Why not go one step further and create a memorial to this who have stood against bigotry? We could include Akhbar (a Muslim King who promoted multiculturalism), ML King, Hillel, Jesus ,, who used passive resistance to stand up to the Romans, Aung San Suu Kyi , Squanto, .
The centerpiece could be a peace chapel .. like the Rothko Chapel in Houston or the shared chapel at MIT. This chapel would be available to all religions, including atheists and others devoted to peace and tolerance.
Even better there could be an annual award on the level of a Nobel prize awarded to an individual who does the most to promote our common humanity.
Hey Troll. There was a time when a much higher percentage of citizens in the U.S. South thought Negroes were less than full persons. Your point?
@5 ,, Troll
Islamic Cuontries that are VERY popular the Emirates, Indonesia, and Malaysia.
There are also not a lot of folks trying to flee Iran!
There are no starving Muslims in Gaza, but there are plenty in Darfur. So where’s their aid flotilla?
If you want to learn about Islam, go to this site:
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
@9
Turn in your card. Stupid comment of the day!
You could try any of these…
“There are no impoverished children in Seattle but there are plenty in Tel Aviv.”
“There are no beaten wives in Seattle, but there are plenty in Afghanistan.”
“There are no pedophile priests in Sheboygan, but there are plenty in Chicago.”
“There is no poverty in Appalachia, but there is plenty in Somalia.”
and just to counter the “religion of peace (and a stack of dead bodies)”
“There were no dead savages in Massacusettes bay, but there are plenty of dead infidels in Afghanistan.”
The ground zero mosque will be offensive to many, just as me drawing a picture of their prophet, then urinating on it would be offensive to muslims. Sure, they have a right to build their mosque, and I have a right to urinate on their prophet, but does that mean I should?
@11
So………. Troll
2 wrongs make one giant self-smug right!
And that’s what makes America great. (see even a lib can love it.) We’re better than them. We don’t take petty crap and make it the biggest issue of our time….oh, wait.
@11 Troll
So building a mosque is offensive as peeing on a Jesus statue???
Errr … how do you feel about the Temple of Hadrian .. the Pantheon, being used as a church by xtians?
Errr … how do you feel about the antisemtic comments in YOUR bible against the Jews?
Err .. how do you feel about the demonization of Raven and Druid deities by Xtianity?
Would you join me in tearing down the cathedral in Mexico city cuz it is built over an Aztec Temple?
Of course dem mosques in Istanbul ought to be repatriated to churches ?? right???
BTW … everytime I see a cross overlooking me, I think of the symbolism of Roman and Christian triumph over us poor not Xtians.
Would you mind, out of sensitivity to OUR feelings, taking those things down?
Greg Gutfield is planning a gay bar for muslim men next door. I was thinking rib shack with topless waitresses myself.
And the first one of you chickenshits that proclaims me insensitive can go fuck right off. It’s my right to open a business (or Church) in America.
Uh, no. Today’s right wing kook is exactly like yesteryear’s right wing nutjob: they are all reactionary / angry / pathetic white guy yahoos. With intertube connections. Strict-daddy victims who think they are a lot smArteR than they really are (see: Troll)
I get a kick out of tea baggin’ small guv’mint clowns like Troll who believe BIG GUVMINT should prescribe solutions to fix “offensive” things. Apparently, property rights are only applied when said rights fit Troll’s always-predictable position on any given subject.
Troll then goes on to happily compare himself with jihadists who want to kill CARTOONISTS. Self-flattery will get you nowhere, Troll. But then again – making an idiot out if yourself is all you’re really good at. I can imagine that skill follows you past your inane existence on HA…
Troll, I know you’re kind of an airhead. But look up the word “Sufi” and then get back to us.
Being a tea bagger means always appealing to the lowest-least educated denominator. Troll revels in his celebration of ignorant populism. Most thinkin’ people don’t.
This is also known as “separating the men from the boys.”
http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news.....02569.html
From this article, it said AND I QUOTE “According to the poll, 56 percent of white voters, 45 percent of black voters, and 60 percent of Hispanic voters oppose the mosque. Along religious lines, 66 percent of Jews, 66 percent of Catholics, and 46 percent of Protestants were opposed.”
So 66% of Jews are teabaggers or right wingers? 45% of blacks are right wingers?
@19
See @7. (QUOTE IT if you like. ALL CAPS make restating a stupid point MORE PERSUASIVE!)
Why did you bother?
@19 Troll
Waht is your point? If most Germans supported Hitler, did that make the Nazi’s right?
@21
My point? I just DESTROYED Lee’s argument that it’s the right wingers who are mostly against the mosque.
Dear stupid troll @4; it’s not on ground zero.
@22: At your own link, troll:
What a fucktwit!
Locating, or the building of government buildings near ground zero should have Americans up in arms. Afterall, it was a government (or quasi-governmental) led conspiracy that orchestrated the events of that day.
Collateral Damage
@24
Of course liberal, self-loathing Jews are going to for a mosque on ground zero.
@22….
How so, statistically challenged. What percentage of the 56% of whites identify as conservatives? What % of the 66% of Jews. Hey look, a minority of blacks!
Look a little deeper, of those opposed:
Rep. 82% oppose
Dem. 57% oppose
Building would be an insult to families:
Rep. 77% yes
Dem. 33% yes
So the vehement opposition comes from conservatives, as Lee pointed out.
@27
Dumb Dumb, that poll was done in NEW YORK CITY! You actually think NYC is a right wing town?
HAHAHAHA!
@28
Your inability to comprehend poll results is stellar. Of course, there are NO conservatives in NYC. That how it works?
But I still refer you back to @7 and 19.
Lee, you don’t actually expect rational thinking from the right, do you?
@28
When was the last time they elected a Democratic mayor?
@26 “liberal self loathing Jews?”
Tell me bubbelah, how is it that Israel has always had a strict law AGAINST appropriating mosques?
Oh, and tell me what sort of self loathing led Moshe Dayan to turn control over the Temple Mount over to the Islamic authorities?
The only “self loathing” I have seen on this issue is by Abe Foxman of the ADL. The “liberal” Jewish community has condemned the ADL for demeaning central Jewish principles.
@32
It should be obvious why your other comment was deleted.
I make things up in pathetic attempts to win arguments with people who are smarter than me.
@34
As should be obvious to you by now, any time you attempt to claim that I’m the one misusing statistics, I’ll be editing your comment to link to the proof otherwise. I have little interest in going back and forth on this any more.
Either admit you made things up, or stop attempting to claim something else happened.
Here is one groups explanation of Islam to non-Muslim’s.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....r_embedded
Watch this. It’s from a Swedish Group called “White Roses”
What do you think??
Need to have clarity on where the $$ is coming from for this mosque.
It is a National Security Issue.
The proponent has a track record that needs to be openly, publicly addressed.
Follow the money.
@37
It is a National Security Issue.
The proponent has a track record that needs to be openly, publicly addressed.
No, not even remotely true. Whoever it is that convinced you of this is someone who operates under the assumption that the people who listen to him/her are stupid enough to believe anything.
I gave you all the proof that is needed.
Grow up.
Lee-
So if the proponent has ties to a terrorist organization, you ignore it?
That doesn’t sound very prudent…especially if your home were next door to them.
If someone with terrorist ties or a history of making radical statements was building next door to you Lee…would you have a problem with that? Or is it only ok if it is next to someone else?
Something tells me that even as an anti-Israel JINO, you would still be upset if it a Mosque were built next to you and you had no idea where the $$ came from.
@40
These folks have absolutely no terrorist ties. Not even remotely.
Lee
errrrr
ahhhhh
I hesitate to question the all knowing Prophet from Renton, esp since I also believe the folks buidling this place have every right to do so .. even if the money is tainted.
Still, there is a matter of appearances.
How do you know this? If what I have read is correct this is a 15 story effort. That is a lot of money for ANY religious group, esp to build in NYC!
In the past a good deal of the money for Mosques and Islamic centers has come from the Wahabis.Would it bother you if their money was going into this place?
I stood up and clapped when I read this Lee.
BRAVO!
@42
How do you know this?
Because there are large numbers of people who have been trying to make those connections and haven’t succeeded. And this couple has a long and extensive record of speaking out against terrorism.
Would it bother you if their money was going into this place?
It might raise a red flag for me, but it might also signify a sign of moderation on their part since it would be terribly uncharacteristic for Saudi Wahhabi’s to be so enthusiastic about “women’s empowerment”.
@36 I’d say that the video is prepared by people who love Christianity and hate Islam. Like you, I suppose. Tell me, KLOWN, what are the differences between Mosaic Law and Shar’ia Law?
@46 Lee
Reasonable answers.
Personally I think the R is begin asinine. They and we all should celebrate this as evidence of American exceptionalism!
As for whdther there athink Islam, like any other organization, needs to be watched for terrorist and security reasons.
Of course I feel that religions should be treated no differently than any other organization. In this case I would say the same thing of any group with possible ties to radical Islam.
The disgusting thing is watching folks on the R who know better using this to fan the flame under their tea pots!