Dr. Jonathan Wells is a Senior Fellow at the Seattle-based Discovery Institute’s Center for Science and Culture (the “Intelligent Design” propaganda mill,) and the author of Icons of Evolution: Science or Myth, one of the primary “textbooks” with which Discovery promotes ID into schools.
And according to a post by DarkSyde over on Daily Kos, Dr. Wells is also a Moonie:
[Link] Father’s words, my studies, and my prayers convinced me that I should devote my life to destroying Darwinism, just as many of my fellow Unificationists had already devoted their lives to destroying Marxism. When Father chose me (along with about a dozen other seminary graduates) to enter a Ph.D. program in 1978, I welcomed the opportunity to prepare myself for battle.
The “Father” Wells is referring to is none other than Reverend Sun Myung Moon. Well’s education at both Yale and Berkley was funded by Moon’s Unification Church. He’s been a devout ‘Moonie’ for decades.
Hmm. When I was a kid, the Unification Church was considered to be some sort of dangerous, wacky cult; real Christians would actually hire “deprogrammers” to kidnap their kids out of the clutch of the Moonies and reverse their brainwashing. Nowadays, the billionaire Rev. Moon, with all his money and media (he owns The Washington Times and United Press International) has become an integral part of the Republican power structure.
Now, as a Jew, I’ve always had a tough time distinguishing one Christian sect from another; they all seem a little cultish to me. (I mean, transubstantiation… that’s just plain weird.) So the mainstreaming of Moonism doesn’t strike me as all that shocking. But wouldn’t you have thought that the right-wing Evangelicals and Catholics who have embraced Rev. Moon as a political ally would have been a little more put off by the fact that, say… he claims to be the Messiah?
In any case, the fact that one of the main scientists at the heart of ID theory is a devout Moonie who under Moon’s guidance chose to “devote my life to destroying Darwinism” doesn’t say much for the intellectual underpinnings of the theory. As expected, DarkSyde quickly and easily picks apart Wells’ logic and lies. Give it a read.
All Protestants reject transubstantiation…it’s a Catholic thing
Goldy-
FYI: Here’s a direct link to it.
Also, I don’t think you’re notion of Christians is too off-base. Life Sarah Silverman said: “I believe that we are the Chosen People, while your daddy believes Jesus is magic!”
Wells’ life highlights the grave dangers for the wide acceptance of superstition in our society.
That someone intelligent enough to enter and graduate from top universities with the intent of merely using his accomplishments to propagandize a marketing campaign of creationists is a tremendous waste of potential.
Goldy: Re the Rev. Moon “claims to be the Messiah…”
There might be some competition for that. After all, there’s George the Father, and George the Son, with Cheney and Rumsfeld competing for the third spot in the trinity,…eruh, or was that “trifecta”?
Well it figures. The Moonies own the Washington Times, the newspaper equal to Faux News Channel. Since the Moonies are righties through and through, it makes sense that a Moonie dingbat would be at the helm of the failed Discovery Institute.
After all, morons attract other morons.
Moonies behind the discovery institute?? OK whatever. The main message that I get from the debate of teaching intelligent design in school isn’t creationism vs. evolution but rather enforced slavery too public schools vs. private voucher system. I see a steady push toward private vouchers after every one of these debates. A majority of people of getting liberal philosophy shoved down their throat by the public schools. The momentum builds after every school strike and every horror story coming out of our elementary and high schools.
Correction:
A majority of people are getting tired of liberal philosophy being shoved down their throats by the public schools.
Goldy is being a bigot these days?
Asking the question “Is the Discovery Institute run by Moonies?” is just as bigotted as asking the question “Is the American Civil Liberties Union run by Jews?” Or perhaps a slang word should be substituted for “Jews”, since Goldy is using slang to describe followers of the Unification Church.
And probably much less factually valid as well. I would think that the percentage of Discovery Institute members who are “Moonies” is much smaller than the percentage of the ACLU and other liberal groups who are Jews.
6.
Some people see a straw man wherever they look.
8.
Not to mention all those Jew scientists, right Richard?
The most interesting thing about the Moonies is that religious organizations are exempt from minimum wage laws, which is how Moon became a billionaire.
Voter Advocate @ 10
You could make an equally strong argument that the Bush administration is “run by Jews”. Hate groups like David Duke and radical Islamists make these arguments in their propaganda against Bush and America.
Goldy is appealing to bigotry, plain and simple.
If you want to get rich, set up a bunch of sweatshops, slather on a layer of fake religion, apply for religious organization exemptions, set up recruiting/brainwashing centers in major cities, and pretty soon you have a slave labor force.
8
Richard, the question is not what percentage of DI staffers are Moonies, but whether DI’s political agenda is driven by Moonie ideology.
6
“enforced slavery too public schools vs. private voucher system”
What a load of crap! You’re as free to send your kids to a private school of your choice as you are to join a country club of your choice. All you need is money, and the taxpayers don’t owe you that, for either purpose.
15
Meanwhile I am getting taxed so that a public unions can protect a bunch of child molestors. Dont take tax money from me for public schools and we dont have a problem. It wont hurt anything, the kids are not getting taught anyway.
“Correction:
A majority of people are getting tired of liberal philosophy being shoved down their throats by the public schools.”
Yup, that horribly fact-based liberal philosophy like the well established and universally accepted among scientists theory of evolution. Or do you really believe the earth is 6000 years old?
This is exactly why Shrubco can’t be trusted to tie their own shoes, let alone spy on Americans.
Evolution and global warming have a lot in common with liberalism. They both sound good in theory but you just can’t recreate it in the real world.
Richard @ 12
… and all those people pointing out the influence that the People’s Temple had were bigots as well, right?
“You’re as free to send your kids to a private school of your choice as you are to join a country club of your choice. All you need is money, and the taxpayers don’t owe you that, for either purpose.”
Thank you for putting that so clearly, Roger. These “conservatives” seem to think that the federal government, insofar as it even should exist, should do little more than run a bloated military-industrial complex. Educating Americans? ‘Tain’t in the Constitution, so it sure ain’t the responsibility of the guvmint.
Richard Poop@8 Taking a page out of the “Conservative Debate Handbook” and putting a little reverse spin on it? Way to go! Goldy is calling attention to a very covert connection, which conducts a very public campaign. . .disengenuously. The Discovery Institue is always denying a religious bias or agenda. . . .
A bigot is usually considered to be obstinately or intolerantly in favor of their own view. . . The fact that Goldy lets you and the Reality Challenged Wingnut Pa-Troll post freely here, argues against that.
I think Goldy’s motive here is to reveal a connection which has been obscured or covered over, not to ‘impugn motive’ as your ‘Conservative Debate Book’ would have it.
thank you for playing, tho’
These “conservatives” seem to think that the federal government, insofar as it even should exist, should do little more than run a bloated military-industrial complex.
Bingo Dr E, you are correct. The main and I might say the whole reason the federal guvment exist is for the military. No where in the constitution does it say to provide for the public schools. Nor does it mention welfare. In fact education is strictly the state job.
Rufus,
You’re a dumbfuck – both are considered scientific facts.
Rufus,
Enjoy flying in an airplane or driving your car? Thank science.
Enjoy a 40-hour workweek and weekends? Thank a liberal.
Enjoy mindless wingnut wanking? Go to Soundpolitics.
Pay no attention to those Drowning Polar Bears
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Science/story?id=1407585
keep repeating mindless talk radio tripe.
Rufus is a DOOFUS? The evidence for that is pretty overwhelming.
If you want to get rich, set up a bunch of sweatshops, slather on a layer of fake religion, apply for religious organization exemptions, set up recruiting/brainwashing centers in major cities, and pretty soon you have a slave labor force.
Comment by Roger Rabbit— 1/15/06 @ 3:07 pm
Roger are you referring the Rev Jessie Jackson and the Rainbow Church?
klake, you’re a fucking retard. and a liar. and a nazi.
you can’t stop covering for Delay And Co. and their Saipan forced abortions and 15 year old prostitutes. Pack it in, you’re done.
I have some sympathy for Klake because he seems to be developmentally disabled. Rufus, however, knows better than to spew crass propaganda. Yet here he goes again….
I’m really interested in how the professional wingers square their tawdry actions with their Christian faith. Does Rufus or Mr. Cynical think they are going to heaven? Do they think their behavior on this site will help them get there?
13
RR — the system you have so well depicted has been used by many cults. Moonies, Jim Jonesies, The Or. Rajneesh, Hare Krishna (complete with beating and screwing the kids) —- on and on.
When the IRS tried to take the Moonies down about 15 years ago — all the majors, Catholic, Baptists, Mormon and on down the list — helped the Monnies. Briefs galore and a defense fund if I remember correctly. The Moonies won after long, years, legal apeals. Considered religous exempt.
From that time forward, they have really prospered. and joined the tent of OK, even if on the fringe.
A very unusual religin to say the least, but extracting big time cash in the Name of Some God or Another, and the clergy and leader keeping and spending most of it – it is nothing new.
Read — All of Tibet. M’s in State of Utah. The Vatican. Islamic Naions…..etc.
I have no truck with organized modern religion. But I cherish spiritual values and the great teachings.
Rufus, however, knows better than to spew crass propaganda.
Thanks my monitor is spayed with sprite. Spewing crass propaganda is ALL HE KNOW HOW TO DO!
Possible — Monnie cash to Discovery Institute — grants for rent, staff. send this to the Times and PI. By the way, I think both have run several large PR pieces written as opinon from Discovery hacks.
Cherche la femme and the cash.
Christian fundamentalists cherry-pick scripture to fit all too human agenda. The verse “Faith is the substance of that which is hoped for, the evidence of that which is unseen”, inidicates there is no ‘absolute’ proof of God or an afterlife, or that we aren’t meant to understand that mystery. ‘Evidence’ is not ‘proof’. If absolute proof were possible, everyone would become believers, and what would be the purpose of hope?
Excerpted from the ‘Just say no to God campaign’. God loves it when we say “God damnit” and wants true believers to stand up to pious bullshit. I doubt Alito has the guts to say No to God.
Different Wells…
RUFUS
I suppose if we are to judge by you, public schools don’t come off too well at all…
Say it ain’t so…
Holy Elmer Gantry’s ghost, Goldy, the Discovery Institute colored by Moonie nonsense? Next you’ll tell me that Jack Abramoff has been funnelling/laundering funds through the local “Judeo-Christian” lobby: (http://seattletimes.nwsource.c.....in09m.html)
Time perhaps to dig up those old Krugerands squirreled away in the closet with the online diplomas….
For a while now, I’ve had a suspicion that there might well be “plants” in the Democratic Leadership Council, whose purpose was to wait until the neocons rose to power and then work to render the opposition party impotent.
That doesn’t seem so terribly absurd in view of “Doctor” Wells apparently having been groomed for over a quarter of a century to take his place on the political stage fronting for “creationism lite”.
16
“Dont take tax money from me for public schools and we dont have a problem.”
Don’t take tax money from me for your wars, or fight your wars in America’s name, and you might have a deal.
20
“Tain’t in the Constitution, so it sure ain’t the responsibility of the guvmint.”
Not so. It ain’t in the FEDERAL Constitution, and it ain’t a FEDERAL responsibility, but it’s sure in the STATE Constitution, and education historically has been a state responsibility. It should stay that way. The federal guvmint should keep its meddling fingers out of education.
26
“Roger are you referring the Rev Jessie Jackson and the Rainbow Church?”
Nope. That describes the Moonies and their cult leader, Jesus Christ II.
28
“Does Rufus or Mr. Cynical think they are going to heaven?”
Yes, but for some strange reason, they and the other wingnuts think the mean noontime temperature in Heaven is 500,000 degrees Celsius.
goldy, perverse lies you peddle…
I know some of the DI guys, and they aren’t moonies.
Yipes, you should stick to defending criminals and old fashioned left wing causes, not attacking those who dare question your control of the schools.
ps, i ain’t threatened by teaching “how” things happened (the what or why is what’s impt)
29
Don’t forget Pat Robertson, Inc.
40
“ps, i ain’t threatened by teaching “how” things happened (the what or why is what’s impt)”
Apparently everyone else on the right is, otherwise why are they trying so hard to throw the “how” out of schools?
rr
i don’t believe also allowing other theories automatically supplants evolution.
I’m not gung ho on the DI stuff except a bit of “enemy of my enemey is my friend” (if you all hate them so much, maybe they are right)
As long as DI furthers the goal of abolishing the teachers union and the way public education is delivered in this state I am all for it. Hear hear righton.
43, 44.
What a surprise.
@44 & @45 Display either the fallacy of ignoratio elenchii, or perhaps the fallacy of two ignoramuses in agreement. . .
We will allow other theories when they meet the burden of proof evolution has. My opinion is that that is impossible, but whatcha gonna do.
re 6: rufus: why not just do away with public education entirely and all the taxes associated with them? i’d love to hear what the “privatization” people think about taking public funds out of their reach entirely. “private vouchers”? give me a break, nutburger! you can’t even spell. you’ll probably blame that on public schools, but i think you should take personal responsibility for it.
what you are advocating is more welfare for corporations.
Gotta say, Goldy, as an atheist, I’ve always had a tough time distinguishing one religious mythology from another. They all seem a little cultish to me. :) I mean, arks, turning people into pillars of salt, and all that smiting and incestuous coupling. Seems pretty whacky to me!
Gotta say, Goldy, as an atheist, I’ve always had a tough time distinguishing one religious mythology from another. They all seem a little cultish to me. :) I mean, arks, turning people into pillars of salt, and all that smiting and ince*stuous coup*ling. Seems pretty whacky to me!
I have a quick rule for cultishness: If the leader has sex with all the followers, gets rich, or tells everyone to kill themselves… its probably a cult.
PS: Can’t quite believe that RUFUS said this:
Evolution and global warming have a lot in common with liberalism. They both sound good in theory but you just can’t recreate it in the real world.
you realize that that’s TOTALLY INSANE right?!
Windie
I think he means, “go boil some mud and call me when a Homo Sapiens appears”
you cannot recreate primordial goop turning into lifee…
righton… and your explanation of what you believe RUFUS said makes it less insane how?
righton; you have 2 mistakes here…
1) theres a difference between “I can’t understand how something can be done” and “Something is impossible”
2) not understanding the very origin of life doesn’t ruin evolutionary theory anyways.
3) (bonus) Righton, you need to understand that Intel. Design is NOT about science but about opposing science.
On a slightly different point, I think Goldy is trying too hard here. A few of the comments in his post are ‘look here, be offended!’, which is… bleh.
1) science = i don’t understand it fully, but i’m working on it.
2) intelligent design = i don’t understand it, so god must have done it.
which concept seems most accessible to a republican?
clay… I take umbrage with your definition #2… its really
2) intellegent design = i don’t understand it, so god must have done it… and god hates science!!!
christian communion is symbolic cannibalism whereby the eater of the wafer and sipper of the grapejuice magically imbibes the strengths of jesus. i really don’t see any scientific evidence of this working, so far.
how can anyone have confidence in the intellectual pronouncments of someone who believes that sun myung moon is god? how do other christians ally themselves with moonie kooks? don’t they think jesus may visit them with strokes for this blasphemy?
Question for Goldy,
Why are you so anti-Christian? Nazi’s were also….are you a NAZI?
44
“i don’t believe also allowing other theories automatically supplants evolution.”
Intelligent design isn’t a theory, it’s a legal strategy invented to circumvent Supreme Court rulings prohibiting mixing religion with public education, and as such it has no valid place in either constitutional law or theology.
45
I don’t support abolishing the teachers’ union, but you could get my agreement that teachers sometimes have gone too far in striking for higher pay, at the expense of the kids, lower paid teachers, and other public employees. There is only so much coin in the public till, and some senior teachers are hell-bent on grabbing more than their fair share. If you took a more reasonable posture on teacher unions than simply being ideologically against unions, you probably could work out an alliance with me on reigning in their excesses.
righton @ 53-
There actually have been experiments with simulations of the prehistoric “soup” with energy (lightning, solar radiation- remember no protecting ozone) which did form precursors of life. Enzymes, DNA elements, etc.
Comment by windie— 1/16/06 @ 9:28 am
“1) theres a difference between “I can’t understand how something can be done” and “Something is impossible””
If you take the first statement and add “yet I still believe in it”, you’ve described faith pretty well. Ironic that many liberals cling as dogmatically to evolution no divine power, as many Christians cling dogmatically to a belief that God created the Universe without any evolutionary intervention.
“2) not understanding the very origin of life doesn’t ruin evolutionary theory anyways.”
Agreed, it also doesn’t make ID impossible either. I don’t claim to be an expert on ID, but it’s an interesting theory. Other than the religious fundamentalists trying to push ID being taught in schools before any study can be done, I’m not sure why liberals hate ID so much.
“3) (bonus) Righton, you need to understand that Intel. Design is NOT about science but about opposing science.”
I’d say also that opposing the theory ID without study, is NOT about science but opposing science. 300 years from now scientists might scoff at what we believe now, much like we scoff at those that persecuted Gallileo for saying the Earth revolved around the Sun. (Note: I’m not saying they will be using ID to scoff at us either).
48
“We will allow other theories when they meet the burden of proof evolution has.”
Of course it’s impossible, because religion relies on a different kind of prove. Belief in the existence of a God who created the universe and all living things depends on faith and is not susceptible of scientific proof. On the other hand, the notion of disregarding scientific facts is silly; gravity is real, an apple falling from the tree will hit the ground every time, and so will you if you jump off a cliff. Religious groups who deploy their faith in competition with the science of evolution are making a strategic mistake. This is the theological equivalent of a frontal infantry assault that has no chance of surviving much less breaching the opposing defenses. It’s unnecessary, because faith can accommodate evolutionary science, and vice versa. All it takes is a reasonable willingness to depart from dogmatic stubbornness.
53
“you cannot recreate primordial goop turning into lifee…”
Forty years ago, we couldn’t walk on the moon either, but we’ve now done it. Perhaps life science is not yet at the point where we fully understand the mechanics of creating life from inorganic matter, but we do know this much: Living things are made of matter. I have no confidence that your statement will hold up as a truism for all time. On the other hand, I feel highly confident that you will be proven wrong by advances in life science technology that may not be very far away.
c1st…
I’ll be straight up. You’re letting yourself be lied to… and used for political gain. If you think the so-called “Intellegent Design” “theory” is anything but a smokescreen for young earth creationism you are WRONG.
Very few on the left or in science are total Athiests. Most of them have no problem at all with the concept of deity. The creationists know that the only way to turn people against evolution is to convince people that evolution is inherently opposed to God. They’re lying!
Anyways you’re misunderstanding Intellegent design (I love saying that over and over for the sweet sweet irony). It doesn’t theorize anything! All ‘intellegent design theory’ is ‘theory’ about how evolution is wrong. Its not for anything, its against evolution. There is no theory to supplant evolution there.
(continued… I was worried about getting filtered)
Its an unneccesary scam to boot. Evolution doesn’t speak to the origins of life either way. Its possible for there to be a designer that just ‘zapped’ the original life into being… and it wouldn’t hurt evolution at all!
DEMOCRATS LINE UP BEHIND TOUGH STANCE AGAINST IRAN
At this moment, GOP Sen. John McCain is the leading Senate proponent of a tough policy against Iran’s nuclear ambitions, including war as a last resort, but he is garnering bipartisan support.
According to CNN, “California Democrat Sen. Dianne Feinstein, … agrees with McCain’s assessment of the extent of Iran’s threat … called the issue ‘the major test of the international community’ … [and] asked whether the United States would take military action, she said … “‘every option should be on the table.’
“On CNN’s ‘Late Edition,’ Sen. Evan Bayh referred to the ‘radical, almost delusional nature of the Iranian regime’ and recent comments of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad that the Holocaust is a ‘myth.’ … ‘To deny history like this, this virulent anti-Semitism, their sponsoring of terrorism, their search for a nuclear weapon — ought to be a wake-up call to every American. Appeasement won’t work,’ said the Indiana Democrat.”
Roger Rabbit says, appeasement never works, and sanctions are a blunt and weak instrument. But Roger Rabbit doesn’t think nuclear proliferation can be stopped. The technology is too easy and accessible, and smaller nations have too much incentive to equip themselves with nuclear arms, both as defense against neighbors and as a check on bullying superpowers. And, at a visceral level, possession of nuclear weapons inflates tinpot egos. The temptation is irresistable. Short of invading half the world’s Third World countries, the spread of nuclear armaments appears as inevitable to The Bunny as was the dissemination of gunpowder weapons in the twilight of the Middle Ages, and the universal acquisition of machine guns and artillery a century ago.
As usual, I forgot the link, here it is.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/01/.....l?eref=aol
And, given the universal prevalence of Cabin Fever Syndrome, it’s highly likely these weapons, after proliferating, sooner or later will be used, in the same manner that all the gunpowder that piled up in Europe between 1870 and 1914 eventually ignited.
First it was the myth believers (ie. the church) that persecuted Galileo.
Second, One of my favorite quotes:
– Carl Sagan
Bunny thinks there’s a certain likelihood that human nature eventually will deal with the burgeoning human population and despoliation of the planet. We lower order creatures will make a comeback, although we’ll glow in the dark for a while.
Screw you humans! If you can’t do any better than that, you deserve your fate.
I would say that MAD is the only solution (at least until someone goes really Mad). We can’t invade Iran, so lets send some scientists over, show them how to create the bomb, and then leave a note behind telling them that if they ever use it, they will find all the nuclear bombs they could ever want, and more, delivered to them immediatly.
The Mullahs aint stupid, and they have children and grandchildren. Like Saddam, all they really want it is to keep hold on power. All the “Death To Isreal” sloganeering is just a way to keep the populace appeased (the Saudi’s have used and abused the same control through religious hatred for decades too.).
Just like the Neo-cons use their slogans and terrorism level charts to keep the American populace in control.
In other news Chile has elected a new president! A woman, single mom and sociali$t to boot. After the dark years of the fa$cist Pinochet, Chile has come full circle.
Take that fa$cist apologists! (Wrongone, jaybo and DOOFUS)
According to Marc Cooper, the present-day sociali$ts of Chile have more in common with American democrats than Castro commuynists. Of course if you listen to the the wingnuts on this board they might as well be the same thing.
Funny thing about the neocons – they’re so obsessed with the Middle East they’ve seem to have forgotten about the little “democracy” problem with our own neighbors to the south.
george w. bush created the conditions for a shia confederation between iraq , iran, and southern saudi arabia ( where all the saudi oil is ). i guess we’ll find out how dedicated to self-determination the johnny appleseed of democracy really is.
japan and thirty other smaller countries in the world already have the technology in place to quickly make atomic bombs. it may be the only way to cow rapacious american corporations.
…and come to think of it: iran has already been attacked with weapons of mass destruction by saddam hussein. the wmd’s, of course, supplied by us.
these are the kind of policies you get with right wing republicans and “centrist” democrats.
The conservatives on this blog are a bunch of religious geeks. If there is a God, he or she wouldn’t have anything to do with them.
The liberals can be broken down into 2 groups: the first is a bunch of aging granola-types, still getting over the Sixties. They think anything a Washington Democrat says is coming from the burning bush of political thought. They’d really like to save the world using everyone else’s money.
The second liberal branch is a bunch of thiry-something, snot-nossed arrogant fucking assholes who think Seattle and King County are the fucking center of the universe. Everyone in Washington should bow down and worship them because they’re so fucking wonderful and cool.
All I can say is that they’re just a fucking group of wanna-be yuppies and use the “progressive” label to hide the fact that they’re really just arm chair socialists.
So, eat shit and die all you fucking conservative religious zealots and idiotic liberals!
The discussion of ID, Evolution, and Scientific Method finally dragged in my Man Galileo Galilei. Often framed as the Martyr for Science.
I think he was caught up primarily in a conflict between the Platonic, and subsequently Aristotelian structure of knowledge, adhered to by The Roman Church, and an emergining view of Scientific Method.
The Church view was primarily based on ‘episteme’.or epistemology, which is primarily concerned with the ’causes’ of things. I put that into quotes because it is a technical philosophic term. Aristotle, and many classic thinkers before him contrasted this to ‘techne’, our technology, or the art of useful knowledge.
Galileo expanded his world of ‘useful knowledge’ to include ‘the Heavens’. Techne does no admit any authority other thqan ‘does it work? can it be predictable, does it stand up to analysis?’
Bellarmine,Bruno, and the Inquisition felt this attacked their epistemological understanding of the world, and questioned the Authority upon which it was founded. Galileo and the Scientific Method do no admit of any such appeal to authority.
Unfortunately for the Church’s view, the world doesn’t really function along an epistemological model. Their view has has fallen into the scrapheap of history with the advance of our technology. (to be continued)
The conflict between ‘Intelligent Design’ and a General Theory of Evolution follows this conflict. ID is essentially an epistemological arguement. Evolution on the other hand is an exhaustive application of technology, as can be testified to by anyone familiar with paleontology and its various branches.
Technology does not deny or affirm epistemology. But it does require us to alter the fields to which we apply epistemology.
ID appears to support a sort of naive epistemology that denies much of what we know of how the world works. Our techne, our useful knowledge is based in a world of ‘common sense’ and common observation. The fundamentalist point of view seems to embrace an epistemology that opposes ‘common sense’ and technology. Hence the common view by many modern thinkers of fundamentalists as modern day ‘savages’. They do not understand technology. Things happen by ‘unknowable’ processes. When they attempt to thrust their, essentially poorly thought out, epistemologies into ‘real world’ processes the conflict is accentuated. (to be continued)
Of particular note, to me, is the adherence by modern Fundamentalists, to an epistemology, which openly conflicts with our technology. Modern Physics brings us a view of the Universe that hinges on many cogent obervations about the nature of time and matter. Some of those observations bear directly on the age of the observable Universe.Some of those same observations bring us Nuclear Technology and Nuclear weapons. It is chilling to me to realize that many modern fundamentalist and Neocon thinkers have no understanding of the techne that underlies such weapons, but are quick to seize such weapons, such ‘magic bang-sticks’ , just as they might seize a rock on the ground to pound out out their opponents brains.
Equally chilling is the realization that this same fundamentalist epistemology denies any other epistemologies. Their refusal to accept that people who accept and understand technology have no faith, no epistemological understanding of the world. There can be a God, or not, and it doesn’t have to be a ‘clockwork universe’.
73
“The Mullahs aint stupid”
Don’t be too sure. Ask yourself this question: Would you give the Bomb to Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell and trust MAD to keep them from using it?
77
“The fundamentalist point of view seems to embrace an epistemology that opposes ‘common sense’ and technology. Hence the common view by many modern thinkers of fundamentalists as modern day ’savages’. They do not understand technology. Things happen by ‘unknowable’ processes. When they attempt to thrust their, essentially poorly thought out, epistemologies into ‘real world’ processes the conflict is accentuated.”
No problem — this problem will solve itself. They will all jump off a cliff to prove gravity doesn’t work. All we have to do is keep them from taking us with them.
BUSH SEEKS TO CRIMINALIZE PROTEST UNDER PATRIOT ACT
We all knew it was coming, didn’t we? Now that the Constitution has been pre-emptively brushed aside, “George Bush wants to create the new criminal of ‘disruptor’ who can be jailed for the crime of ‘disruptive behavior.’ A little-noticed provision in the latest version of the Patriot Act will empower Secret Service to charge protesters with a new crime of ‘disrupting’ major events including political conventions and … charge persons with ‘breaching security’ and … ‘entering a restricted area … where the President or other person protected by the Secret Service is or will be temporarily visiting.’ In short, be sure to stay in those wired, fenced … free speech zones.”
http://www.rense.com/general69/dissent.htm
RR@80 You are no doubt familiar with the tale out of Miami about a car full of rastafarians that crahed and killed all involved.
The autospsy established that someone in the back seat ‘capped’ the driver with a gun. We can only speculate that there was some sort of disagreement and this seemed to be the solution for the moment. . . .
Unfortunately for us, with regard to nukes, we are all in the same car. . . . .
BUSH COULD SEIZE ABSOLUTE CONTROL OF THE GOVERNMENT
“By Doug Thompson
“Publisher, Capitol Hill Blue
“1-14-6
“President George W. Bush has signed executive orders giving him sole authority to impose martial law, suspend habeas corpus and ignore the Posse Comitatus Act that prohibits deployment of U.S. troops on American streets. This would give him absolute dictatorial power over the government with no checks and balances.
“Bush discussed imposing martial law on American streets in the aftermath of the 9/11 terrorist attacks by activating ‘national security initiatives’ put in place by Ronald Reagan during the 1980s.
“These ‘national security initiatives,’ hatched in 1982 by controversial Marine Colonel Oliver North, later one of the key players in the Iran-Contra Scandal, charged the Federal Emergency Management Agency with administering executive orders that allowed suspension of the Constitution, implementation of martial law, establishment of internment camps, and the turning the government over to the President.”
http://rense.com/general69/control.htm
Internment camps?? WTF?!! You mean concentration camps? Don’t believe they exist? Go to these links:
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/camps.html
http://www.sianews.com/modules.....8;sid=1062
http://www.linkoregon.com/fema/
82
What you mean “we,” human?
Scientific studies reveal that certain mutant strains of rabbits are not only capable of talking in human language, but also are highly resistant to blast, heat, and radiation; and reproduce like crazy.
HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR
RR@83 well, the termites, as well as the cockroaches, survived at Enewitok. I don’t believe the bunnies did. . . . .
Area 51 calling all you nutjobs
87
“RR@83 well, the termites, as well as the cockroaches, survived at Enewitok. I don’t believe the bunnies did. . . . .”
But they weren’t Super Bunnies …
Hell, those flash-roasted rabbits couldn’t even type English words on a computer keyboard. Useless grass eaters.
6: rufus: why not just do away with public education entirely and all the taxes associated with them? i’d love to hear what the “privatization” people think about taking public funds out of their reach entirely. “private vouchers”? give me a break, nutburger! you can’t even spell. you’ll probably blame that on public schools, but i think you should take personal responsibility for it.
A donk defending public schools lecturing on responsibility? That is like listening to an unemployed motivational speaker. Doesn’t make sense. Public schoolsand responsiblity are mutually exclusive.
88
“Area 51 calling all you nutjobs”
Getting together with your GOP pals?
91
“Public schoolsand responsiblity are mutually exclusive.”
I suppose Doofus wants us to believe that for the last 150 years, it was private schools that built the world’s greatest economy, the world’s greatest technology society, and the world’s greatest military superpower.
It was public education that accomplished that, jackass.
Public education built our economy? Hahahahahahahahahahahaha
You are a clown. The reason why we are the greatest is because we dont tax you to death if you make something out of yourself. It not your dumbass unions or public education but the fact you can actually enjoy the fruit of your labor. Why the fuck do you think everyone wants to come here. Do people want to become an American because of the powerful unions or the public K-12 education. Hahahahahahaha
Lay of the bunny nip would ya.
Of course, Rufus thinks global warming and evolution are myths, too.
The stupidity boggles the mind (btw – how do you explain those competitive economies of Europe and Japan that also rely on public education)?
Mr X calls me stupid in not believing in Evolution and Global warming and then proceeds to compare the US economy to the European and Japanese economy. Hummm… yeah. How do you explain double digit unemployment (Europe) and an economy that grows and average of 2% (Japan) to the US. What a dumbass.