It appears that military action by the French is under way in Libya. I find myself in agreement with the decision to take action, even if some of the potential risks do worry me. I’ve seen a lot of chatter in various places trying to make comparisons to how we went into Iraq, but this really isn’t comparable. Besides the fact that the war we launched in Iraq was promoted disingenuously in a number of different ways – and was designed from the outset to be an occupation – this is a military action for which the Arab world is largely welcoming our involvement.
That’s not to say that it couldn’t backfire, it sure as hell could. While it still appears to me that Gaddafi has next to no support among the Libyan population, a misstep or two could cause some Libyans to rally around him. And the Obama Administration’s mishandling and misunderstanding of the situation in Afghanistan always makes me nervous about their willingness to be optimistic when optimism isn’t warranted. But overall, I think Fareed Zakaria’s point here is the one thing that overrides everything else:
Now the U.S. has the opportunity to break the dysfunctional dynamic that produces anti-American hatred and violence. The Obama Administration has properly aligned itself with the hopes and aspirations of the Arab people, and it has called for governments in the region to engage in serious reform. But right now all these efforts have been sidelined. Libya is burning. Its people rose, and the tyrant gunned them down. Unless something changes, Muammar Gaddafi and his sons will be able to reassert control over the country amid a mass slaughter of its civilians.
This would be a terrible outcome. President Obama has made it unambiguously clear that he wants Gaddafi to step down. The U.S. is actively seeking his ouster. To have him survive would be a humiliation for Washington at a moment and in a region where its words still have great impact. It would also send a disastrous signal to the other rulers of the region — in Syria, Algeria, Iran — that Mubarak made a mistake and that the way to stay in office is to engage in mass slaughter, scare the U.S. away and wait out the sanctions and isolation. America would lose its opportunity to align with the rising forces of the Arab world.
This is a crucial moment for the Obama Administration, and how this is handled will go a long way towards helping our hurting the more serious problems in the region. Like Bahrain.
While Colonel K is a despicable insane murderer and I agree with taking him out — let’s not kid ourselves.
There are lots of despicable murderers who deserve to be taken out in this world.
Few of them control 1.7 million barrels of oil per day.
Then should the world have stepped in and stopped America from attacking civilians in the south during the civil war? Our government, like Libya is now, attacked its own citizens to put down an uprising. Should the world have stepped in and let the south secede?
@2
Are you comparing Abraham Lincoln to Moammar Gaddafi? Really?
It would be nice to see the Saudis take some leadership in the ME. Like just for once, maybe show an ounce of courage and make a stand.
Apparently they’re just a bunch of greedy cowards sitting by letting the evil west clean up their neighborhood.
What the hell are they doing with all the war hardware we’ve shoved up their asses?
@3
I just wanted to see if you are consistent in your beliefs.
@3: Clearly, yes. Trolls are stupid and offensive cretins*.
*DYK?: The word cretin is derived from the latin kretton. Which means brainless ghoul.
So Lincoln didn’t suppress a large uprising by using violence against our citizens?
@4: The Saudis are basically “taking care of” Bahrain right now.
But basically, when push comes to shove, we’re their military. They bought us from the Bushies eons ago.
@7
Lincoln was elected, you buffoon. Do you think Gaddafi could win more than 10% of the popular vote in a fair election?
@4,8
I met a bunch of Saudi’s back in the day, they were unfailingly polite and well mannered and still managed to be some of the biggest assholes I’ve ever met.
@
So it’s okay to slaughter your own citizens and suppress an uprising if you are elected?
People in the Middle East are capable of a lot more nuance (which is only a bad word in US politics) than we seem to believe. Right now they see the US backing Qaddafi’s ouster. They also see the Saudi military and Bahrain’s king slaughtering his citizens, with our weapons, starting a day after Hillary Clinton visits both countries. The reasonable conclusion is that the US supports democracy, but only if we have no interests in that country (Libya) or the ouster of our long-maintained puppet dictator appears inevitable anyway (Mubarak, Marcos, Suharto, and many others).
The problem in the Middle East for Washington isn’t our image; it’s decades and decades of our behavior, and even if this ends well (no guarantee, since nobody has a clue what the end game beyond regime change might be; change to what), it will take just as long for people to rethink their skepticism of US motives. Especially so long as we continue to be Israel’s butt boy.
@11 I don’t agree with the intervention, but your arguments are puerile and idiotic. The South attacked first (remember Fort Sumter?); you seem to be suggesting that Lincoln ignore the killings of US troops, which no president would do. Also, Libyan protests were nonviolent until Qaddafi’s thugs started opening fire on them, and routinely killing civilians in the process, something I don’t remember Lincoln doing. Oh, and there’s a secondary issue: Libyan protesters are fighting for more freedom. Confederates were fighting because they were afraid Lincoln wouldn’t let them keep their slaves. Gotta go with Lincoln on that one.
I say stay out of it. It’s a civil war, and we don’t get involved in civil wars. The Libyans will run their own country, thank you very much!
I guess I’m not following the logic of this post. Here’s what I’ve gathered so far. It’s okay for the USA to intervene in other country’s civil wars, but it’s not okay for other countries to intervene in our civil wars. And that brutally killing one’s own citizens and suppressing an uprising is okay if the leader is elected.
Do I have that much right?
@14
You should give “The Creature from Jekyll Island” a read. Russia actually sent some of its navy folks to help the North in the War Between the States. France and England were vacillating on whether to support the Confederacy versus the Union folks.
The book may be shouting “conspiracy” at every chance, but it’s got a lot of good historical stuff in its pages. Gets you to think about how we got to the state we’re in now.
Isn’t today the eighth anniversary of the Iraq War?
IMO our inconsistency with regards to “thugish” regimes around the world, let alone the ME, has weakened the US.
The world was looking for leadership, and we (USA) turned to the UN?
What about the uprising in Iran? Yemen? Bahrain? Add N. Korea etc etc etc….
Also, Just because the French and Brits are there first, don’t underestimate the hate of “the west”. In that part of the world, there really is no difference.
We look bad, our policy is weak and inconsistant, and POTUS is dithering in S. America…
@16
You are right. It began on March 20. And as I am trying this, I’m hearing on the news that Obama has begun attacking Libya with his military.
Hope and change?
Bahrainian democracy supporters are insurgents while the Libyan democracy supporters are freedom fighters. It’s the legacy of American foreign policy schizophrenia, and exactly why they hate our guts.
Wrongstuff @17, Qaddafi was an international piriah until your boys Bush & Cheney scrubbed him clean while arranging deals for big oil and the defense industry. You righties were strokin’ yourselves everytime those clowns pulled out the military. What, did it go soft?
Qaddafi’s a thug and is slaughtering his own people. Well actually, Libya’s tribal and so he’s mostly slaughtering members of other tribes, not really his people. But, you get what I’m getting at. Regardless of whatever missteps and mistakes we’ve made elsewhere in the world and in history, being part of a multi-national group that seeks Qaddafi’s ouster and protects innocents is the right thing to do.
Via Drudge
MARCH 19, 2011
OBAMA: ‘Today we are part of a broad coalition. We are answering the calls of a threatened people. And we are acting in the interests of the United States and the world’…
MARCH 19, 2003
BUSH: ‘American and coalition forces are in the early stages of military operations to disarm Iraq, to free its people and to defend the world from grave danger…
Kinda says it all….
Military action by the French??
They fired the 1st shot..the Americans fired the next 112 Tomahawks.
I happen to agree with the action but once again it was waaaaaaay too late. like in Afghanistan when obama spend months thinking about what to do next allowing the enemy to regroup, this too was at least a week too late.
I think Obama has handled the Libyan situation in textbook fashion. How refreshing to have a president who doesn’t go all Cowboy, guns a-blazin’, and hijack another country’s revolution. While we all might wish the necessary world consensus might have developed earlier with regard to Libya, we had to wait until it did develop. I think Obama’s actions with regard to this situation should help our reputation and credibility, both in the Middle East and elsewhere in the developing world.
@23
Agreed.
I just wish we could do these things a little faster.
And you are nuts proud leftist. It developed long ago as Qaddafi was in a bad position 20+ days ago and then he used his air power to beat back the opposition. While the world dithered many innocent people died. Butt that’s okay cuz they brown people right proud leftist? Sheeeeesh!
Remember he was best buds with Qaddafi in 2009. His two spiritual leaders Wright and Farrakhan still love Qaddafi too. And you leftists forgot Obama engineered the Lockerbie Bomber return to Libya!
Mom, Puddy’s off his meds again.
@25…
No shame from this person. None at all.
You betcha rujax, there is no shame in telling the truth. I already placed in another thread the Obama Qaddafi love fest!
@28…That person is a shamful hate-filled liar.
Jesus H Christ Spudds.
You really are completely insane.
I must say, I was rather disappointed in this post, seeing the header “Intervention” I thought someone had sat Puddybud down, helped him see that he needs help, and helped him find that help.
Puddy certainly qualifies as a classic example of what I call, “projecting the shadow.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A.....ogy#Shadow
And a bit about me:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Jung
Sometimes you need to show the DeadToad the truth, the whole truth and the fully unvarnished truth. He was missing in action back on Feb 22, 2011.
Ahhh yeah Carl Jung [sic], why didn’t you choose Che Guevara?
So, Puddy, you rightwing lapdog, what would you have done, go in guns a-blazing, the US of A yet again interjecting itself alone into a Middle Eastern conflict? Puddy, you are such a fucking wingnut idiot. Do you ever think outside the partisan box of your FoxNews handlers? Pud, I suspect you are a decent human being. I know, however, that you can’t think for yourself. Obama did this one right.
Proud Leftist,
Where did I suggest guns a blazing? Are you drinking the Stupid Solution too? I already posted Europe was perplexed why Obama didn’t take the lead, but you don’t read current events. Obama didn’t say much of anything for a long time on Qaddafi. I posted this some time ago. Why was that? Well Farrakhan and Wright love Qaddafi! It’s well known. Except to you proud leftist. Yet Obama was there on point immediately against Mubarak in Eqypt. Yet you don’t pay attention to current events unless it’s on a left wing whack job site! If Kos said Obama did something right, you are their lapdog nodding your head like those back window car dogs.
Pud,
Go to bed. The demons in your head are quarreling, and it ain’t pretty for those of us who are sane.
re 14: At first, Obama was convinced that Gadaffi was making weapons of mass destruction by a disaffected Libyan called ‘Sideswipe’.
Now he just wants to free the country from a terrible dictator — and, by the way, we have to weaken the Libyan Al Queda whose members blew up the twin towers.
It’s a new world now after 9/11.
Don’t overlook the fact that the Western nations sold Libya most of the weapons they have today.
Poor proud leftist… Can’t stand the heat so he attacks…
Even the NY Times is critical
Obama’s problem wanting to be China’s president means he gets no criticism and he doesn’t have to deal with “big problems” proud leftist. But you’re too stoooooooooooopid to see the big picture. So here goes proud leftist, here’s the BIG PICTURE!
1)As China’s President, you won’t have people who cling to their gun and religion as incoming freshman congressmen and senators arriving during the middle of your first term looking to perform the will of the people because your first two years pissed off the masses.
2)As China’s President you won’t have to negotiate a continuing resolution budget left over from your “friends” in congress who were too chicken to do their job by April 15 of 2010. What you say on television is the will of the people and what the budget will become.
3)As China’s President, the masses of people around the world fighting for freedom from dictators and oppression won’t expect you to help. Hmmm… got your attention yet proud leftist
4)As China’s President, when you host a jobs conference with business leaders, people will drop what they are doing and will take you seriously. The national press is behind you 1000%.
5)As China’s President, when you host a beer conference with Harvard Police and a Harvard Professor, people will drop what they are doing and will take you seriously.
6) As China’s President, there isn’t a call to stop funding NPR because everyone knows they lean your way, and their audience of educated, elite Chinese is the group whom supports you. Therefore you can fund NPR with as much funding as needed to pollute the masses.
7)As China’s President, when you host a conference on gays in the military, people will drop what they are doing and will take you seriously.
8)As China’s President, when you speak of the Chinese people’s aspirations from “your view”, people will drop what they are doing and will take you seriously.
9)As China’s President, when you have the opposition attack you, you can call out the military and put down the uprising. People will drop what they are doing and will take you seriously.
Need to see more proud leftist? All these are from recent issues Obama had or has to deal with. There are plenty more I can think of!
This man was/and still is NOT prepared for the challenges of the world. And you voted for him proud leftist.
Continuing on for proud leftist because his self-proclaimed sanity doesn’t allow him to read the “tea leaves”…
When you are China’s president what are your other titles proud leftist? Think for a minute will ya?
– Central Military Commission Chairman – Okay commander in chief
– Paramount Leader – Supposedly of the free world – But it seems Obama hates capitalism. Obama attacked the Chamber of Commerce before Obama decided to like them. Remember, Obama went to Turkey and Cairo and later Europe becoming the “Apologist in Chief” starting in 2009.
– General Secretary of the Communist Party – Yeah that’s the perplexing one proud leftist. China is a dictatorship. Seems your president yearns for despotism. Seems your president doesn’t like a representative democracy. Seems your president yearns for those conditions!
Why is that proud leftist? Let’s see if those demons in your head will calm down for a little while and allow you to produce a cogent thought!
Hey proud leftist Jonah Goldberg nails it again!
OMG, my eyes are now bleeding and painful – I clicked on Pudiot’s link to Jonah Goldberg (paragon of wingnut welfare and rightist nepotism) and found writings more stupid and mendacious than the Pudiot himself, if that were possible.
Some gems:
Please make the stupid stop.
Jonah Goldberg, the infamous “Doughy Pantlaod”, is what Pudiot gives us in argument? That’s all you got? A poorly written screed that could honestly be shortened to “Uppity nigger doesn’t know his place.”
Puddy once again comes through as the breathtaking imbecile we know him to be.
Some Bush Quotes:
Jesus, dood, are you insane? how many wars are we in now?
Places where we are blowing shit up: Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, Somalia, Philippines, Libya, Pakistan.
Good lord, Did I miss any?
WTF is wrong with you? War is free? We are cutting kids in poverty off of healthcare in the USA!USA! Yet you encourage launching 121 cruise missiles at $2+ million each.
And you are in some serious denial if you think a NFZ is all that we will do. Shit dood, even Peggy Noonan can see that.
Sorry, but you are fucking nuts on this one.
Oh my Lib Unscientist…
Truth hurts eh…
Bush isn’t president anymore fool. Same argument your side used when we who think right brought up Clinton!
Oh my Lib Unscientist…
Truth hurts eh…
Of course you can’t refute anything from Goldberg.
Obama has always been offended by criticism, finding it somehow illegitimate to disagree with him. – NewsMax
Obama plays more golf than Bush – CNN (Clinton News Network) And this was almost a year ago. How many tee times since then Lib Unscientist?
It’s that he’s (Obama) acting like an employee who thinks he’s too good for the job. – Gallup Poll
The only area where he has shown sustained energy lately is fundraising. And even there, his pitch for support hinges on the fact that his middle name is still “Hussein.” – CNN Again While the rest of the world burns Obama is fundraising.
Why bother on the rest? Lib Unscientist won’t get it at all. Gonna work on the yard now!
Let’s start with the most basic question you should be able to answer before killing people –
why? Gadaffi is a bad man! Jesus, that is kindergaten thinking.
Who are we supporting? You can’t even answer that most basic question beyond a vague “rebels”.
And you support killing people for that?
But Gadaffi is killing civilians!
Dood, we killed over 50 civilians just last week in Pakistan and another 4 children in Afghanistan.
And how many civilians do you think 121 cruise missiles killed?
I guess when we kill civilians they automatically become bad guys and when Gadaffi kills insurgent rebels they automatically become civilians.
And to even think like you one has to ignore the people we’re killing in the USA!USA! through budget cuts on social services.
Turn off your fucking corporate news because you are in upside-down world and don’t even know it.
Wait a minute… Why didn’t Lib Unscientist use this?
Somehow Lib Unscientist couldn’t use the full paragraph. Hiw “argument”would have exploded! KABLAMMMO
Covered that above. Libe Unsceintist is MIA on those 9 points trying to use Bush comments. FAIL!
Yeah how are those ever climbing gas prices treating you Lib Unscientist? Where’s Nancy Pelosi blaming the oil companies? Where’s headless racist and his 62 sock puppet names crying zero-sum game crapola? My employer pays my gas… Sucks to be you fool.
Yeah Obama’s aim ain’t too good is it?
Heh. Troll’s still fighting the Civil War. That explains a lot.
@49: I’d say up to a third of the population of the United States of America is still fighting the Civil War. It’s the source of a large chunk of our current problems.
@Geoduck,
yeah, I wish Texas would just succeed already, then all the teahaddiis could go live happily ever after and leave the rest of us alone.
Um, meant secede. Must proof read better.
Puddy,
You cited Jonah Goldberg as an authority? I’m now starting to think you’re not only crazy, but stupid. Jonah Goldberg, really?
PL, Puddybud can always be depended on to cheer lead for the most in-fashion right wing idiot of the day. Beck’s ratings are in the permanent dumper so in desperation, he turns to a has been like Goldberg.
Too funny.
I don’t know what’s worse for these asswipes…that Obama’s a knee-grow or he’s a Democrat. Nothing he does will ever be any good.
Well rujax, your commentary proves to all the idiot you are!
Another of ylb’s misconceptions. Beck still kills CNN and the Friday Night Fools Darryl delivers from MSNBC!
Stay stupid ylb. You don’t know anything else. You’re a laugh a picosecond! About the amount of time thought passes through the very empty neanderthal granite encased cranial orifice before it enters the crapper.
Puddy,
Defending Beck is akin to those who opposed Galileo. Nuttiness is not admirable.
Interesting but still fallacious.
So now the moronic one is claiming that Beck’s paranoid fantasies are some kind of news and opinion shows.
Keep on fantasizing fool. Keep on mistaking insanity for “truth”.
You just make us all laugh.
Spoken by the liar (and supporter of thieves and murderers) who has zero credibility on this board.
Lemme see if I have this right…Bush’s invasion of Iraq and the killing of it’s dictator was immoral, illegal and a capitalistic pretext for getting the oil. Whereas…Obama’s attack on Libya (without the Congressional approval that Bush had) and with far fewer allied nations than Bush had, is the right thing to do and Obama has no interest in Libyan oil?
Lying fuckers, you leftists!
Read it and weep you santimonious shithead:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/.....40265.html
Who is the biggest member of NATO?
You are a child.
@65
Do you need a clue to answer that question?
Here is a hint: they arent in Europe.
@66…
Fuck Off you idiot.
Who is the biggest dumbfuck in the HA comment threads?
Answer: the same dumbfuck who believes the U.S. imports Iranian oil.
@67
Ohhhhhh….talk dirty to me baby!
need another clue?
– The nations flag is red, white, and blue.
let me know if you more clues….