Now that KC executive wannabe David Irons is on the record opposing Initiative 912, it is time for a few other Republican “leaders” to fess up and make that wrenching Sophie’s Choice between their fervently anti-tax base, and their pro-infrastructure patrons in the business community. I have emailed the twelve other members of the King County Council (Democrat and Republican), asking them the same question I posed to Irons… and I plan to query other lawmakers and candidates as well. But at the top of my list must surely sit the state GOP’s putative figurehead, Dino Rossi, who skated within an inch of redecorating the Governor’s Mansion, largely on the strength of his don’t-ask-don’t-tell approach to public policy.
Rossi’s 2008 gubernatorial campaign started way back in December of 2004, about a week before King County completed its hand recount, when trends in other counties and reports from observers made it clear to campaign insiders that Christine Gregoire would likely be declared the winner. (Indeed, he technically formed his “Rossi for Governor 2008” committee way back on Dec. 8, 2004.) Perhaps there was a point when Rossi truly believed he had a shot at prevailing in court, but the election contest transformed into the opening round of an anticipated rematch long before it was forcefully “dismissed with prejudice.”
But if Rossi is going to wage the longest political campaign in state history — if he is going to wear the mantle of WA state GOP savior for four more years — then it is only fair that he be asked to publicly comment on controversial issues of the day. And none could be more controversial at the moment than I-912 and the state transportation package it would repeal.
Indeed, nobody owes the public an explanation of his position on I-912 more than Rossi… not just because of his role as de facto GOP leader, or his established record supporting pro-business issues (like the transportation bill)… but because it was his futile election contest that John Carlson and Kirby Wilbur successfully co-opted as a sort of political sweeps week. KVI astutely rode the election controversy to its highest ratings in years, and as it came to an end, John and Kirby launched their next on-air promotion, I-912, during the two-week trial, and the peak audiences it delivered. But they didn’t just cleverly exploit the bump in ratings Rossi’s contest gave them, they exploited Rossi himself, adopting him as a martyr of the anti-tax movement, and urging listeners to sign the petitions as a backlash against Christine Gregoire’s victory at the polls and in the courts.
Many, many people who go to the polls to vote for I-912 will do so in the name of Dino Rossi, and if, as I suspect, he privately opposes the initiative, then he owes it to his supporters to set the record straight. If on the other hand he really does support I-912, then his financial backers in the business community, whose interests he claims to represent, deserve an explanation as to why he opposes a transportation improvement package they deem so vital to the economic interests of our state. And more importantly, he owes us all an idea of what he might propose as an alternative.
If the gas tax hike is repealed, if desperately needed improvements are not made, and aging infrastructure is allowed to slip further into disrepair, then a Governor Rossi might someday have to deal with the consequences… consequences that include not only the economic impact of ever more suffocating gridlock, but potentially the loss of hundreds of lives and thousands of jobs should the worst case scenario occur.
As the Seattle P-I editorial board succinctly concluded: “When mobility, traffic congestion and thousands of local jobs are at stake, we’d hope for stronger leadership.” If Dino Rossi wants to lead our state, now is the time to demonstrate some strong leadership by taking a clear public position on the most important issue on the November ballot.
Rossi doesn’t have time to comment on such things. He is busy getting continuing education on the difference between a real estate salesman and a real estate broker
It doesn’t matter what these guys think or say. Washington State has way too many people who check “PAY LESS TAX” when given the choice, regardless of consequence.
I understand people wanting to pay less taxes, but I don’t understand people trusting a weasel like Dino.
Tax receivers are parasites and should not be allowed to vote. [ex: military, police, and fire].
Let’s see:
“When mobility, traffic congestion and thousands of local jobs are at stake, we’d hope for stronger leadership.”
The new tax does nothing for mobility or traffic congestion unless you are in a carpool or ride a bike. Simply building carpool lanes that will go unused feels good, but doesn’t solve the problem. That’s why I-912 will pass. People want something real for their tax money.
Why demonize a majority of the voters in this state? Why not listen to what they are saying, rather than acting so condescending? Really, you aren’t smarter than EVERYONE else out there.
Start your daily clock ticking on getting Dino on the record. Good job Goldy!!!! Go for it.
Yeah… all those folks doing the people’s business should be debarred from the basic rights of citizenship. Now THAT is sane.
4
Tax receivers should not vote for representatives. They can vote for president and senators. Don’t forget welfare recipients, college students and public school teachers.
To vote for a representative you should have to bring in your 1040 and show you paid taxes for the past four years. Anybody who does not pay taxes have no business voting for representatives.
What? What the hell kind of sense does that make?
And what deos tax reciever mean? That mean if you get a refund you cant vote?
Dude, make some sense here.
Line 56 of the 1040. It doesnt matter if you get a refund unless they refund all your money. Karl do you belive that people who dont pay taxes should have a say in how much taxes people pay?
Rossi voted for the Nickel increase in 2003. Why should we assume he wouldn’t have supported the 9.5 cent package?
is paying taxes the only reason we vote? What an overly simplistic view of elections.
We also vote to elect our representatives, because this is a representative republic. That means that all people should have that opportunity to select a representative tha represents them.
Under your plan low income would get no representation, but rich would. The laid off workers on unemployment would not, but the rich factory owner would. take the poor disabled person on SSI, and the elderluy on fixed incomes, and say, sorry you can’t vote either.
And no way you can convince me that Police, Firemen, Military and teachers suddenly dont deserve it. Since when is public service a disqualification?
Real fair.
Remind me not to live in your sick fantasy world.
Sorry, I am just amazed that anyone would even consider this, which makes me believe you are the worst kind of troll.
No one is saying that you can’t vote for president or senator. Everyone should be able for theses positions because they initiate laws. Public servants can vote for representatives as long as they pay taxes. You donks are all the same, milk the rich and coddle the poor.
4 et al.
I agree — tax parasites shouldn’t vote.
“only two red states are net payers of federal taxes”
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/.....money.html
“‘There’s a general perception out there that the blue states are big net recipients of federal subsidies,’ says Harvard business professor Herman ‘Dutch’ Leonard. And there’s a corollary perception that, in contrast to these welfare-queen states, the inland and Southern states are a heartland of self-reliance and private initiative, less dependent on federal spending. As Leonard says, ‘That historically hasn’t been the case.’ And it’s becoming less and less so.
“In 2003, the top subsidy-sucking state, in percentage terms, was red-lite New Mexico, which received $1.99 in federal money for every dollar it sent to Washington, D.C. All the next eight net recipients of federal spending were redder yet: Kentucky, Virginia, Montana, Alabama, North Dakota, West Virginia, Mississippi and Alaska, which received $1.60 to $1.89 back for each tax dollar.
“The list of net losers in the state-federal exchange, by contrast, reads like a Who’s Who of Blue. Two of the top 14 were traditionally red Western states that are starting to turn purple, Colorado and Nevada. The other 12 are all blue: California, Connecticut, Delaware, Illinois, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, New Hampshire, New York, Washington, Wisconsin and the biggest chump of all, New Jersey, where the federal government spends just $.57 for every dollar it collects.”
Yep, let’s deny the franchise to the subsidy-suckers and welfare queens — the red states!
So you blue staters refuse to let power plants and military bases to be built in your states so you force them on the red states and then call the subsidies welfare. Yep, typical donk argument.
I see that Sam Reed is running TV ads at taxpayer expense telling people they need photo ID to vote and encouraging them to vote Republican.
Kentucky, Virginia, Montana, Alabama, North Dakota, West Virginia, Mississippi and Alaska, which received $1.60 to $1.89 back for each tax dollar.
Perfect places for DOOFUS especially ND and MS.
Not only should just the producers be the only ones to vote, but there should also be a basic citizenship test where a voter has to show they understand the basic foundations of Murkin gummint. If you give european answers, you don’t git ta vote.
Goldy,
If you’re going to hold Dino to his words, then how can you support lil Crissy “recounts till I win” Gregoire? After all, that vile cunt ran on the platform of ‘no new taxes’, and in the end she was the one behind one of the largest in State history! What about that BS? Damn liberals love to think you are all “holier than thou” and can do no wrong, and in the end you’re the biggest bunch of damn hypocrites I’ve ever seen. Thanks.
Hey Mark1 @22,
Really. You’re calling our governor a “cunt.” Uh-huh.
A) The gas tax is not a new tax. This hike is the equivalent of a cost of living adjustment, as the value of excise taxes are eaten away by inflation unless they are periodically raised. By historical standards, even after the full 9.5 cents goes into effect, the tax will be about average in real dollars.
B) You don’t like the topics I cover, then get your own fucking blog, and let me know if you manage to get any readers. Have fun.
The new tax does nothing for mobility or traffic congestion unless you are in a carpool or ride a bike.
Except for the general purpose lanes it builds on 405, the new interchange at I-5 and SR 18, the widening and new lanes on SR 12 from the Tri-Cities to Walla Walla, and on and on. Which is to say that you don’t know what you’re talking about.
Simply building carpool lanes that will go unused feels good, but doesn’t solve the problem.
I agree. Which is why the gas tax increase does a whole lot more than build carpool lanes that will go unused.
That’s why I-912 will pass. People want something real for their tax money.
Or maybe it’s because people like to complain about the consequences of their choices, like you will when you complain about traffic after you vote to prevent DOT’s efforts to reduce traffic congestion.
Why demonize a majority of the voters in this state? Why not listen to what they are saying, rather than acting so condescending? Really, you aren’t smarter than EVERYONE else out there.
Given your utter lack of knowledge about the issues you complain about, he’s clearly smarter than you.
Wow tax increase are not tax increases at all but COLAs? Whoa. Goldy stick with the Koolaid and get off the COLA would you. Geesh.
Does anybody have any data that shows construction cost data in Washington versus other states or other countries? It would be interesting to evaluate Washington’s cost agains some others. For example, what is the cost per mile of road construction here and other places. How do bridge costs compare. Or costs of a mile of choo choo rail. It may be tough to get exactly comparable projects, but it seems like some ballpark data would be good. It would also be interesting to compare staff salaries between say… the seattle monorail and similar boondoggles in other cities.
So the Marks and RUFUS are clearly opposed to democracy, basing the right to vote for at least some offices on one’s economic status and are willfully ignorant about the current transportation programs.
Why don’t you guys say you oppose buses because poor people ride them? Have you ever ridden in a bus during rush periods and noted the number of riders?
And these folks push the direction of the debate. A sad commentary.
22
“ran on the platform of ‘no new taxes’, and in the end she was the one behind one of the largest in State history”
Oh please. 9 1/2 cent gas tax? Largest tax increase in state history? Gimme a break.
MTR wants to bring back literacy tests. BTW the “producers” are the workers on the assembly lines NOT the capitalists in air conditioned offices.
K
No, everyone has the right to vote for president and senators… you know the ones who make the laws. Just the tax payers are allowed to vote for representatives through which all tax laws initiate. As far as I am concerned the phrase “taxation without representation” only applies to people who pay taxes. Right?
Wabbit @ 29 – Literacy test, plus citizenship test to prove you’re not a fucking moron. BTW, from your comment, it’s clear you have NFI how business works because you spent to much time as a government bureaucrat insulated from the reality of how wealth is produced.
Rufus @ 30 – It doesn’t work that way. Even people who don’t pay taxes get a tax “refund”. Remember the checks that went out in 2001? Even the freeloaders got ’em.
Weasely dissembling is Republican stock-in-trade. They innately understand a man like Gannon-Guckert.
King Dino does’nt have the balls to go on the record for anything so why should we think he will on this. I wonder if this anti-tax crowd has ever read the project list,it adds capacity and except for 520 bridge everythings fully funded. This is the same- I’ll show you I’ll fuck me crowd
Bax @ 24:
The vast majority of those who will vote for Sound Transit and against I-912 will never take public transit or ride in a carpool. They just want everyone else to do so. At least those who vote for I-912 are honest about it.
When the Seattle City Council, King County Council, Ron Sims and Christine Gregoire start taking public transportation to their jobs, and give up the car, driver and free parking, I’ll be glad to vote for the rest of us little people to do the same. Until then, I’m tired of the carpool lanes that sit unused 22 hours a day.
Since you have been so enamored with outing politicians regarding I-912, and you were also curiously enamored with the controversy surrounding HB-1515, don’t you owe it to your readers to set the record straight on why you choose some of your topics and produce some full disclosure of your own?
Are you gay?
Re 35: Does that scare you? Are you? Or are you bi-curious with a bukkake fettish? I need to know!
Pat
You are falling for that old bait and switch the donks do every tax increase. Remember the light rail was suppose to be built from Lynnwood and SeaTac for it original price tag. They spent that and more and they haven’t laid a foot of track yet.
Goldy,
I am not going to call you a spin doctor. I am going to assume you have forgotten the circumstance in which Rossi 2008 was formed. If you will recall, at that time the PDC had yet to inform the campaigns how a revote/legal challenge effort would be financed. The PDC also had not formally ruled what it would do about the rule that does not allow campaigns to raise money (I think it is 45 or 60 days) after an election. Since the PDC is a bunch of democrat appointees, it was probably a safe move to form Rossi 2008 in case it was needed to raise money.
I know it is tough at times to remember historical context (9 months ago), but we should remember that before this race, we did not have a text book or a clear understanding how recounts and election contest worked. Sadly, I still don’t think we totally understand. Remember that neither candidate was aware of how the funding for the hand recount worked (the SOS had to send out instructions).
Hey Goldy, why don’t you go head and tell us which receiver Hasselbeck should have look for in the endzone today. Or even better, why don’t you let us know all the mistakes the allies made on D-Day and you would have saved so many more lives had you been in charge.
Goldy, @
1. I can call her whatever I want.
2. Having a blog results in people having differing opinions on ANY subject, whether one agrees with the blogger’s or not.
3. I don’t desire to have my own blog.
4. Don’t assume that because you think you have all the answers to everything that it is right or correct. This is America; we have the right to disagree. Everything is up for debate and discussion.
Thanks.
A quote from Dino Rossi (many of times during the 2004 Governor’s Race): ((I paraphrase))”The first step to solving transportation is restoring faith in the system.” “People need to have faith they are getting their dollars worth”. Boy, sounds like Dino is either clairvoyant or maybe, just maybe, he understands the average taxpayer, better than, I don’t, Goldy.
On a completely unrelated thought; whatever happened to Chris Gregoire??? During the campaign, she was good ol’ friendly Chris. Now everything she puts out uses Christine again. What happened to Chris??? I miss that french guy!!!
Accountability – that’s a good one!!!
Here are a few interesting items I found in the May 1 Seattle Times.
“But some of Gregoire’s biggest actions in the Legislature didn’t match her campaign messages.”
“During the campaign, Gregoire also said she wouldn’t push for a gas-tax increase until taxpayers are convinced they are getting their money’s worth for the nickel-per-gallon increase lawmakers approved in 2003.”
“Throughout the campaign, for instance, Gregoire — like Rossi — repeatedly said she would not raise taxes for the state operating budget.”
State spending increased 12.4% over the previous budget.
accountability – a great topic indeed.
Rufas, if you honestly think Representatives do not make laws you are ignorant. A bill is voted on in both houses before being passed to the President. Good lord you have no clue what the legislative process is do you?
Go back to civics. And I am not a Donk by the way. I am more right leaning then left, but proudly independent.
Your idea to restrict voting is one of the most profoundly ignorant ideas I have ever heard.
As I have said before, the problem with the 9.5 cent gasoline tax increase is the projects that it funds and where it funds them. The biggest of which is $2 billion towards a mega-expensive Alaskan Way tunnel replacement in Seattle, that even the Wabbit thinks is un-weasonably expensive.
And as I have said before, $4 billion of the $7 billion in highway project money is going to King County, even though King County has only 28% of the state’s population.
(The 9.5 cent gasoline tax generates only about $5.5 billion. There is another $3 billion or so in other taxes and fees — $1.5 billion of which goes to highway projects and the other $1.5 billion of which goes somewhere else.)
I-912 will pass by a healthy margin, due primarily to the above reasons. And also due to the voters’ general desire to send a message to Olympia — largely a political statement about how dissatisfied they were with last November’s election results.
I predict a five cent gasoline tax increase being passed in the 2006 legislature, with only about $4.5 billion in highway projects — $1.5 billion for King County and the same $3 billion for the rest of the state.
Reply to 26
There actually was a study done about five years ago on relative highway construction costs. Some states costs were lower than Washington but more states had higher costs. I think they compared something like a fairly standard interchange construction and asked other states what it would cost them to build.
Mark the Redneck you said: Literacy test, plus citizenship test to prove you’re not a fucking moron. Well, by your statement and asking for any type of tests, you have probably just ended your days as a US voter….LMAO@U
And as I have said before, $4 billion of the $7 billion in highway project money is going to King County, even though King County has only 28% of the state’s population.
And as I have said before, why do you think there should be a ratio of spending to population? Clearly King County has major congestion because people are coming into King County from other counties every day. I’d expect someone who is running for office to recognize something so obvious. Go stand at the border of King and Pierce or King and Snohomish Counties on I-5 some day and tell us what you see.
Is there linkage between the BBB’s illegal ads against Senn and their similar ads in state judicial contests over the country. YES! Rossi’s sour grapes comment about the WA state supreme court implies as much.
Richard @ 44
You need to also look at where existing gas taxes are going when you report you percentages for King County. And you also might consider the needs of people who live in other counties, yet work in King County. The state DOT has pretty good new data that demonstrates that the 9.5 cent gas tax pretty well equalizes transportation spending throughout the state, when existing funds are included. I agree that I-912 will pass – which is too bad for all of us. Failing to fix the roads is a pretty stupid way to “send a message” about the last election.
I got a word for you nitwits over there on the wet side.
If you think the gas tax should go to help your traffic jams so you can drive around you are sadly mistaken. It will take a real public transit system to solve that and you will have to use it. You are a big city with not alot of room for massive freeways. And if you did build them the problem would only grow worse. Fix what you got and get some rail, some subway, anything!!! Leave the car at home.
Over here we have a bus system that is doing ok. It is getting better all the time. And we even voted for a tax increase to get it that way. And we didn’t really need to.
Oh, you are not all nitwits. I wouldn’t want to be banned from visiting :)
Bax @ 47
Aside from needless extravagance in King County (wasted billions on waterfront tunnel, when shoring up existing viaduct would be nearly as effective and avoid nine years of major traffic disruption), it is simply far more expensive to maintain local traffic routes in King County, than in the rest of the state.
Why should someone working for $8.00 an hour for Wal-Mart in Yakima pay 9.5 cents more per gallon, with next to nothing go to local roads — in order to subsidize an improved commute from Greenlake to Redmond for some Microsoft software engineer making $120,000 per year?
Washington’s tax system is by far the most regressive in the nation, and the 9.5 cent gasoline tax increase will make it worse — very little money spent in low income counties, most of the money spent in the higher income areas of high income King County.
Roger Rabbit@3
Weasel like Dino? How many campaign promises has chrissy broken since entering office?
JCH@4
How far do you want to take that? School employees? Employees of contractors that worked on gov projects? Airline employees if gov officials rode the planes? Taxi drivers around gov offices? Stupid idea.
51
Since Rossi didn’t get elected, the only thing we can judge him by is his track record, e.g. going into business with a convicted felon …
Oh, and part of the problem here is the little weasel wouldn’t tell anybody what he was going to do in office, which makes me wonder …
RUFUS@9
But if you are unemployed BECAUSE of the guys in office you have a right to vote the bums out, for instance I was unemployed during the failed Carter policies, I voted Reagan, next thing you know I was back to work…
31
“Literacy test, plus citizenship test to prove you’re not a fucking moron.”
I like your idea, MTR, but don’t quite understand why you’re advocating the disenfranchisement of nearly all Republican voters.
It is simply not true that the east side does not gain from this. All the projects on the table have a level of importance. We here in the Tri-Citeies have great roads and some better projects ongoing. But we still have projects on the table that I-912 would jeapordize. Same goes with most counties. Of particular importance is the death trap known as highway 12 to Walla Walla. Why should some schmuck working at WalMart have to pay more? Perhaps for his own life!
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/.....gin30.html
good article on tri-city roads.
@35
“I’m tired of the carpool lanes that sit unused 22 hours a day”
Where do you work, a bar? You clearly haven’t seen an HOV lane during daylight hours at any time in the last 25 years.
Goldy@23
Goldy, your bullshit COLA theory fails to take into account the fact that each family now has more cars on the road than in the past (and bikes, snowmobiles, lawnmowers, quad runners and ect. Also drive farther than ever in history. It is a tax increase, not a cola
Roger Rabbit@53
I see you had your earplugs in when Dino was speaking.
41
“The first step to solving transportation is restoring faith in the system.” “People need to have faith they are getting their dollars worth”.
Am I to understand, then, that Rossi’s solution to gridlock and aging transportation structures is faith-based transportation? That, when AWV collapses, we’re going to levitate our cars through downtown?
41 (continued)
Does Rossi also think we can scrap the ferry system and walk on water?
Jimmynap@56
I have lived in Walla Walla, and go back there from time to time highway 12 is OK I really dont know what you can do yo moron proof a road so drunks can negotiate it better.
@42
“State spending increased 12.4% over the previous budget.”
About half the increase is due to population growth and inflation (primarily medical inflation). Most of the other half is due to enrollment increases in K-12 and higher education. When Gregoire took office, Washington ranked 49th of 50 states in higher education access.
Roger Rabbit@61
No if you listened it was called restructuring WSDOT to make it a lean competitive organization…believe it or not that is not pie in the sky.
@50
don’t blame KC for the city of Seattle being dumb. Believe it or not, they’re not the same entity!
Chuck, your slip is showing…
Your whole “Durr! DOT BAD!” schtick gets old after a while. Even alot of stock conservatives agree they’re doing a really good job now.
As to the COLA/tax raise thing… Thats like saying “I got a $10000 pay raise, damn those feds for raising taxes on me!”
@50
“Why should someone working for $8.00 an hour for Wal-Mart in Yakima pay 9.5 cents more per gallon, with next to nothing go to local roads – in order to subsidize an improved commute from Greenlake to Redmond for some Microsoft software engineer making $120,000 per year?”
Richard, I expect a candidate for public office (such as yourself) to be able to articulate issues better than this!
1. Since when does AWV, the largest project funded by the 9.5 cent gas tax, go across Lake Washington? This is news to me.
2. The vast majority of residents of King, Pierce, and Snohomish counties (the main users of King County roads and bridges) do not work for Microsoft, are not software engineers, do not make $120,000 a year, and do not work in Redmond.
3. Since King and Yakima counties are both net subsidizers of road projects in other counties, the Yakima Wal-Mart employee’s gas taxes are going somewhere, but not to King County.
@59
“Goldy, your bullshit COLA theory fails to take into account the fact that each family now has more cars on the road than in the past”
Duh! Do you think that might have something to do with traffic congestion, Chuck?
@65
Chuck, do you ever pay any fucking attention to what’s going on around you? Since 2001, WSDOT has undergone massive restructuring, and its budget and payroll have been cut.
I’ll bet you don’t know that Gregoire’s 2005-2007 budget proposal cut WSDOT’s operating budget by 3.6% (in actual dollars, not inflation-adjusted) compared to the 2003-2005 operating budget, and reduced WSDOT’s headcount by another 104.5 positions (on top of the personnel cuts of previous years).
Chuck @ 64 –
It is better than it was that is for sure. And that is very VERY funny about drunk proofing. I got a good chuckle out of that (no pun intended). But it needs to be finished. I have seen the carnage up close and personal. I think there might be some economic benefits as well.
Off topic – Sorry Goldy but the Christopher Walken thing is cracking me up: From http://news.com.com/2061-11199_3-5833740.html
Christopher Walken for president!
What a disappointment. For a brief but inspiring moment, we thought Blogma’s favorite actor might really be throwing his hat in the ring, following in the footsteps of so many other Hollywood politicians.
Unfortunately, it seems that Christopher Walken’s supposedly official campaign site, walken2008.com, is a marketing outgrowth of his role as a senator with presidential ambitions in “Wedding Crashers.” “According to one source, the entire campaign, including registration of multiple Web domain names, is an elaborate hoax being perpetrated by members of the General Mayhem forums, one of the largest message boards on the Internet,” WorldNetDaily says.
Yet bloggers and others refuse to give up hope. As the brilliant Fark.com astutely observes, “This country needs more cowbell.”
Shakespeare @36,
Hmmm… it depends on my mood. I’d say that right now I am feeling moderately cheerful.
“T.J.” @39,
Please get another handle… we already have a “TJ” and “Another TJ”.
As to Rossi’s C1 form, I fully understand the PDC rules. If you go to the original post you’ll see that I acknowledged in the comment thread that I was just poking fun. But the fact remains, the contest was more about 2005, 2006 and 2008 than it was about 2004, and Rossi maintained his campaign staff until after Judge Bridges decision. You’ll notice there was a point about a week before KC certified the hand recount, where the GOP strategy suddenly shifted to a “revote” campaign. Why? Because at that point, they knew they lost.
Richard @44,
I won’t argue with your predictions, but if they come true, the rest of the state better prepare themselves for a Seattle backlash, because we’re going to make it damn clear to Pierce, King and Snohomish county that we’ve been getting the short end of the stick in state transportation dollars for the past couple decades, and it’s time to stop the gravy train. You want to devolve transportation spending to a revenue stays in the county its raised model, fine. Let Adams county pay for its own damn roads. And while we’re at it, let’s do the same with education dollars… I’m getting a little tired of my daughter’s Seattle school laying off teachers and assistants, and dropping things like art and music, all so we can subsidize schools in Eastern WA districts too cheap to pass a school levy, only to have them turn around and attack us for sucking them dry. I’m not asking for a thank you… just an end to the lies.
And again with the tunnel crap. The transportation bill puts a fixed amount of money towards rebuilding the viaduct, regardless of which alternative is chosen. The rest will be raised locally. That’s a red herring (as is your bullshit revenue-to-population ratio) and you know it (though I’m sure it probably polls well in the rest of the state, which is why you insist on using it.)
I mean really… lambasting the viaduct as a “megaproject”. It is one of the region’s three North-South freeways, and absolutely vital to the region’s economy. Viaducts have an average fifty-year lifespan, and the AWV has outlived its own. Of course we have to spend a big chunk of change replacing it, but we won’t have to do it again for another fifty years! (Or another 100+ years if we replace it with a tunnel.) Let’s get real.
Richard @51,
Oh… so will you join me in supporting a state income tax… the only way to fix our state’ gross regressivity? Or are just cynically using the regressive argument because you don’t like this particular tax, and you’re slobbering at the opportunity strike a political blow against Gregoire and the Democrats in the Legislature? Come on, Richard… are you really interested in solutions?
And finally… to everybody… WHERE THE FUCK IS DINO ROSSI IN THIS DEBATE?!!! This is a man who says he wants to lead WA, and yet he refuses to participate in one of the most pressing debates facing us today.
Well here’s what I think of the tunnel/seawall proposal, since some of you are interested.
In my opinion, the seawall is the city’s problem, not the county’s or state’s problem. Built in two phases, 1911-1916 and 1932-1934, and now deteriorating from age and earthquake damage, the seawall has utility only to waterfront commerce and downtown property owners. It performs no economic function for the rest of the city or county.
Accordingly, even if conjoining the repair/replacement of the seawall and viaduct makes sense from an engineering standpoint, it makes no sense from a financial approach.
I believe the seawall portion of the project should be financed by creating a Local Improvement District in the area abutting the downtown waterfront where the seawall is located, and imposing a special assessment levy on the property owners located within the LID. If a new seawall and AWV replacement are combined into a unitary structure, the LID funding for the seawall could then be folded into total project cost. But it is not reasonable to use gas taxes or other fees imposed on motorists to pay for a non-road structure. The seawall is not necessary for SR-99 as the latter could theoretically be built on a bridge over water or tidal flats.
In summary, for financing purposes, the Hwy. 99 replacement structure and seawall reconstruction should be considered two separate projects, and the seawall should not be considered a highway, road, or bridge structure. All of the seawall cost should be borne by property owners and waterfront users, because the seawall enhances their property values, and is of no benefit to anyone else.
Where’s DJ in all this? Always telling me how stupid I am for thinking gas tax is for Viaduct, when that’s exactly what his cousin Roger Rabbit says above.
Hypocrite
Seawall cost should not be borne by King County residential property owners!
Goldy@73
I dont really give a fuck where Rossi stands on 912, I dont need someone to tell me what I should vote as I can think on my own.
Roger Rabbit@71
If WSDOT is so lean, why does it still take 6 workers to patch a 2×2 hole in the road…with a dump truck and a (read ONE) shover and a crew cab truck? (the shovel was in the truck so that wasnt a complete waste)
Goldy,
Some of us are really, REALLY wondering Rossi stands in this debate. But we all know he is going to be as mum as he can. Politically this is a big DUH! But we really REALLY REALLY want to hear, not just from Rossi, is from all in public office. That is exactly what Washington voters need to hear. Where they stand and why. A real show of character, which Irons carefully avoided, would send a message to the anti-tax voter that I-912 is a bad deal.
I am still waiting for the call back from our local reps here.
And by the way, we pass our school levies out here. Not often they fail. So take it easy on us! :)
windie@68
OK if there is some corelation, you will need to draw it for me. I see no logical relation between those things….
Roger Rabbit@70
So the conclusion is the families are paying more than ever for an infastructure that is largely already in place and only needs maintained, modernized and additions made to. So in reality in the past, people built an entire infastructure on less money with less cars on the road to pay for it putting less stress on the family budget…what did they do right?
By the way, I think Rossi has expressed a distaste for the initiative prosess overall, one place where I dont agree with im.
Jimmynap @79,
Yes, I was angrily generalizing… partially trying to make a point by example, that there is not much rational thinking coming from many of the anti-tax diehards.
And yes, we REALLY need to hear from Rossi on this issue. This is about LEADERSHIP… the type of leadership that Gregoire and legislators from both sides of the aisle showed by passing a gas tax adjustment they knew would be unpopular, but that they knew was absolutely necessary.
Voters can’t have it both ways… they can’t bemoan the lack of leadership, and then attack their elected officials as arrogant everytime they display it.
Goldy@83
Actually Rossi was VERY clear in that he would completely reorganise WSDOT making in as lean as possible and only then go to the people with a PLAN. Did you hear that? A PLAN.
chuck@80
okay~
my case: Even if my bracket weren’t to change, my tax payments go up, because I have more taxable income.
your case: Even if the tax rate stays the same re:inflation, the amount I’m paying goes up because I’m driving more cars!
Increasing use doesn’t equal an increase in a usage tax, dumbass.
If you still dont’ get it, lemme know~
chuck@84
Wildly unneccessary of course, but it sounds good I guess… WSDOT is doing really well now.
Goldy @ 83
Well said. We’ll see if we can’t get them to stand up and tell it like it is.
Chuck @ 84
I seem to remember Bush had a plan too. Not sure what it was (he never really said what it was) but if it was getting us into a fucking mess like Iraq I am not so sure I like his “Plan”. If Rossi had a plan he sure didn’t tell us either. But if it didn’t include a budget and the taxes to support that budget, no amount of restructuring WSDOT would pay for it. It would be just another “Plan”.
windie@85
OK dumbass let me help you here, it isnt nesisarily more usage, it is more cars making the same trips the single “family sedan” used to make, more jet skis, dirt bikes, quad runners,, gas mowers as well as other recreational “toys” that dont even use the road. And again the infastructure already exists!
jimmy@87
Rossi’s plan:
“I HAVE A PLAN!”
(plan to fool people into voting him that is)
Jimmynap@87
Well dont blame the Bushman all alone, democrats from Dashel all the way to Kennedy was in support of him, hell Clinton even shot a few rounds towords Iraq while he did NOTHING about the original attack on the twin towers.
@88, you just don’t get it
ITS NOT AN INCREASE!
That would be like saying drinking more beer is an increase in the tax on alcohol, or smoking more is an increase in the tax on cigarettes.
You can’t call increased usage a tax increase. You *can* call it a revenue increase, but thats not what you’re saying.
You’re trying to get around the numbers on the gas tax, and using shady accounting to cover your ass.
windie@89
You really should speak better of your next governor.
@90
yeah those stupid democrats, trusting their president not to lie to them!
You’re changing the subject again tho’… we’re talking about Dino, the Gas tax, and I-912.
Not The Democrats or Clinton (wow, what a surprise you brought HIM up)
@92
Thanks for the giggle!
well mostly, my boss thinks I’m crazy
windie@91
You are the one that doesnt get it, if you buy a shovel and use it yourself, it will cost you more to use and maintain that shovel than a tool rental shop that buys the same shovel and rents it to 200 people through its life. The rental shop will get more use of the shovel for FAR less money…get it?
@95 ok this is my last try on this.
You can’t blame the government for peopls choices, especially when they HAVE choices. If people choose to be inefficient with their gas usage its not an increase to the gas tax.
I admit I have no idea how what you’re saying in 95 is at all relevant to what I’m saying, maybe your original argument was way more out there than I thought.
Chuck @84,
Oh… Rossi has a PLAN. You mean like Nixon’s “secret plan to end the war” in Vietnam? Or Bush’s wildly successfull “plan” in Iraq?
So if Rossi has a plan, why doesn’t he share it with us? Regardless of how much more efficient one can make WSDOT, it doesn’t change the fact that there are a list of transportation projects that must be repaired, replaced and built. I assume his “plan” prioritizes these projects and proposes how to pay for them? Right? So why not share this plan with us, for the good of the state, so we can start implementing it now? I mean, even if he can squeeze 15% savings out of WSDOT (and he can’t) it shouldn’t change what his plan builds, right?
But if you say Rossi has a “plan”, that’s good enough for me.
This plan stuff is great. It should really hit home with you righties. We have heard of all these “plans” but we never really get details. I remember Bush in a debate going as far as saying “Trust me, I have a plan”. Fuck if I ever hear that again and trust anyone.
I have a plan, and here are the details. You call up your districts Representatives, Senators, City Council Members and ask them to publicly state where they stand on I-912. Quote them well and bring your answers back here to HA. I am sure Goldy could post an open thread and we could scoop every paper in Washington. I would bet even Rossi would have to stand up. Heck, if everyone else did it might be a popular idea. But wait a minute… doesn’t he want to be the Gov? Shouldn’t he be the FIRST to stand up.
A spine is a terrible thing to waste.
This is just like one of you Seattle pinheads to sit around and obsess over irrelevant questions. It doesn’t matter what politicians – either Republican or Democrat – think about I-912. The matter is out of their hands and in the hands of citizens where it belongs.
I-912 will pass and then you’ll need to decide which of your cherished social engineering programs you want to defend because that is where the money will need to come from to replace the Viaduct.
If Queen Christine and the rest of the Democratic legislature had not been so arrogant, we might have been able to pass part of the gasoline tax increase and perhaps gotten some additional money elsewhere. It’s not a good idea when the most reviled woman in the state breaks her promises, ignores previous voter initiatives , and crams through a massive tax increase.
Thankfully, in this state, we still have a way to stop her. I don’t think she will ever learn, but hopefully the rest of you will.
Cold lizard like creature @ 99
Wow, it doesn’t matter where a politician who wants to lead this state stands on one of the more important issues of the day. Heck, if that is your attituted, you must be very happy with Govenor Gregoire, since it doesn’t matter where she stands on any issue.
And, boy oh boy, did you have to spin hard away from the facts to make your post. First of all, Gregoire said in the campaign that she had no problems with a gas tax increase if DOT was shown to be doing there job well. They have. Second, it wan’t just the Govenor and the Democrats, but a lot of Republicans who saw that something had to be done about our problems with transportation, and that this small increase in the gas tax would do it. Lastly, you are not stopping the Govenor if you are foolish enough to vote for 912. You are making your and mine and everyone elses life worse, but it won’t have any effect on the Govenor, whose poll ratings are already recovering from the smear campaign launched by the likes as the minnow and KVI.
Heck, the only person who really seems to be disliked in this state is Chris Vance, but that is probably just because he lies a lot like you.
Goldy@97
As my last post indicated it took 6 WSDOT employees and two vehicles to fix a 2×2 hole in the road, if this is the eficiency you are talking of i think we can do a lot better.
Goldy;
If Dino came out and said he opposed the gas tax and he would have…. Then he said, he opposed raising sin taxes to fund education and he would have… The he said, he opposed cutting $12 million dollars from the COPES in home care from seniors to pay state workers and he would have…
You would be the leading the choir singing “He shouldn’t be out second guessing Governor Gregoire”. Yes, technically, he has filed for the Office of Governor in 2008. Dino is not running around campaigning. He is not actively having fundraisers, he is not sending out press releases, he is not on TV playing governor-in-wait. As of now, Dino Rossi is a private citizen. He is not using his new-found-fame to push initiatives or issues (or himself for that matter).
I would think you would compliment the way he has removed himself from the governorship and let Gov. Gregoire sink or swim on her own merits.
Do you really want Dino out on every issue second guessing Gov. Gregoire??? I don’t see how that would help the state. It might help the GOP, it might help the Dems (who knows), but does any think that is what is best for Washington???