In my absence there has been some speculation over my role in the shareholder lawsuit challenging former Safeco CEO Mike McGavick’s golden parachute. I suppose I should have clarified things the day the story broke, but my dog and daughter and I have been chasing birds in Long Beach the past couple days, mostly out of cell phone range, and entirely without Internet access but for brief morning visits to a local WiFi hotspot. (Long Beach Coffee has great java by the way… but rather spotty Internet service.)
Besides, there’s not really much to clarify, as Robert Mak pretty much got the sequence of events right in his Tuesday night report.
Here’s what I happened. A couple months ago I was talking to Knoll Lowney about his lawsuit overturning Initiative 747 when he mentioned the shareholder lawsuit he was working on. From the sounds of it he was fairly far along, and rather confident that he had a strong case that at least some of McGavick’s compensation package was illegal, which all sounded pretty good to me. I offered to help him find plaintiffs, and about a week later put up a short post on HA looking for pissed off SAFECO shareholders.
I got one firm response, Ashley Bullitt, and after a brief email exchange I passed her contact information on to Knoll. Her daughter Emma Schwartzman ultimately became the lead plaintiff in the case. Essentially, if not for me, Knoll likely would have ended up with a different plaintiff. (It’s not like pissed off SAFECO shareholders are all that scarce in Seattle.)
That’s pretty much the extent of my involvement. In fact, considering how little Internet access I’ve had the past few days, most of you probably know more about the details of this case than I do. I’d love to take more credit than I have, but truth be told, if Knoll had posted a notice on Craig’s List, he’d probably have gotten a bigger response than I did on HA.
Now, I understand that the McGavick campaign is trying to dismiss this lawsuit as nothing but dirty, partisan politics, and that my good friend Stefan over at (un)Sound Politics is pointing to my bit part as confirmation. But, well… unfortunately for the R’s, reality tends to be a tad more nuanced.
Was my role in this case politically motivated? Of course it was. Nearly everything I do is political. Hell, when I take a dump I wipe my ass with Dave Reichert’s franked mail. (It has less literary value than toilet paper, and is twice as plentiful.)
I’d have to be an idiot not to see the partisan, political value in what Knoll was doing, and that’s why I offered to help. Duh-uh.
But to conclude from that, as (u)SP’s Eric Earling does, that the entire lawsuit is baseless… well, that either shows a lack of critical thinking on his part… or a total lack of respect for his reader’s intelligence.
The facts of this scenario speak for themselves in showing not only is the lawsuit entirely political, but that it doesn’t have any merit even as simply a shareholder complaint.
Uh-huh. What a brilliant legal analysis. But then, that’s typical of (u)SP’s oeuvre, lazily hawking dismissiveness rather than relying on inconvenient things like facts or, um… thinking.
“The facts of this scenario” don’t speak to the merit of the lawsuit at all. In fact — and I know this might be a difficult concept for some of my rightie trolls to wrap their minds around without their heads exploding — it is absolutely possible for this lawsuit to be both politically motivated and entirely with legal merit.
I can’t speak for either Knoll or Emma, but it would surprise me if their involvement was entirely unmotivated by partisan politics. They’re suing a candidate for U.S. Senate for chrisakes. They’re not dumb; they know they’re shoving some bad publicity McGavick’s way. But I also believe that their outrage over McGavick’s golden parachute is as absolutely genuine as my own.
Legal or not, the fact is that McGavick’s golden parachute is an absolute disgrace, and at the very least presents the kind of perception of impropriety that simply should not be acceptable from our highest elected officials. And no, the fact that other executives have been similarly overcompensated at customer, employee and shareholder expense is not an excuse.
Further adding to the outrage is the fact that McGavick had already made millions at SAFECO, and had a generous termination package in place. By rewriting his termination agreement after he announced his voluntary retirement, handing McGavick many millions more than he was contractually due, SAFECO has potentially performed an end-run around our campaign finance laws, indirectly dumping truckloads of cash into this Senate race via McGavick’s own unlimited, personal contributions.
This is just plain wrong, and deserves public attention for moral and ethical reasons alone. But Knoll believes it is also illegal, and considering his legal track record, Knoll’s opinion is good enough for me. Yes, Knoll has a reputation for working on behalf of liberal causes, but remember, both he and Steve Berman are sinking their own money and resources into this case, and they don’t make a dime unless they win. Bloggers like me may be foolish enough to work for free, but lawyering is a business.
As for Emma, anybody who simply dismisses her as a political hack isn’t paying close attention. Her involvement isn’t just about politics, and it certainly isn’t about the money. It’s about respect for an institution in which generations of Bullitts obviously take great pride.
Emma inherited fewer than 50 shares of SAFECO stock, but as she makes a point of stating, these are “original” shares, passed down through generations from her great, great grandfather, a SAFECO founder. Monetarily, the shares are a pittance. But to Emma and her relatives they are a family heirloom… a proud connection to their family’s role in building Seattle into the great city it is today.
That Emma views SAFECO as something more than the sum of its market valuation might be hard for some people to understand, but she is clearly proud to be part of a family that has played a historic role in Seattle’s business and philanthropic community. Emma may not have inherited Bullitt family millions, but she’s certainly inherited her family’s acute sense of social justice.
But that said, all this speculation over the motivations of Knoll or Emma or myself misses the point. McGavick’s golden parachute was improper, if not downright illegal, and since none of the facts in the case are really in dispute, responsible reporting would focus on getting some expert legal opinion to analyze the points of law in dispute. Who cares if my primary motivation was to stick it to McGavick if in fact he and SAFECO broke the law or in some other way violated the trust of shareholders?
McGavick is, after all, running for U.S. Senate, and thus voters have a right to know if he is beyond reproach, or merely straddling its edge. And unlike the state Dems, Knoll didn’t just issue a hotly worded press release… he laid out all the facts and arguments in a legal document that will win or lose on its own merits. Indeed, if there is to be a shareholder lawsuit, the time for it to be filed is now, before the election, so that voters can learn the truth. In that sense, political motivation is a good thing.
Oh, and one final comment on the R’s feigned outrage over this lawsuit: gimme a fucking break.
McGavick’s midlife conversion to “civility” is a joke to anybody who remembers the vicious campaign he ran on behalf of Slade Gorton, and absolutely absurd coming from the party of Karl Rove. Accusations of dirty politics? This coming from the party that swift-boats war heros and slanders multiple amputee veterans as traitors and cowards?
This isn’t dirty. This is just a lawsuit. And whatever its motivation, the facts do indeed speak for themselves.
McGavick, DeLay, does it really matter? Voting for a Republican means voting for a felon.
Mike :( McGreedy is goin’ doooowwwwwn!
Goldy –
Look for a post at (un)SP on the scandal of you using taxpayer dollars to subsidize your personal hygiene.
If Stefan is so outraged I’m sure he won’t be similarly calling for his readers to find shit on Democratic candidates.
Oh, sorry, he already has.
Is there a thumbs down smiley?
Like this perhaps: :|
McGavick, DeLay, does it really matter? Voting for a Republican means voting for a felon.
Commentby GBS […………………………………………………………….You mean like William J. “Icebox” Jefferson, DEMOCRAT, LA, or Cynthia “BitchSlap” McKinney, DEMOCRAT, GA?]
Johannesburg – Snow fell on South Africa’s biggest city Johannesburg for the first time in 25 years as icy temperatures gripped vast swathes of the country, the weather office said. “It (the snow) is by no means freakish but I would certainly classify it as rare,” said Kevin Rae, assistant manager of forecasting at the South African Weather Service in Pretoria. … Johannesburg last had snow on September 11, 1981. [………..PROOF of “global cooling’!!!! Congratulations to George Bush!!!!!!]
You make a really good pimp for political whores, goldstein.
I’m curious about something, anybody else wonder why no large shareholders have a problem with the deal McGavick and the Board of Directors negociated? I’m talking about big money managers, experienced professionals such as Dodge & Cox’s Inc, Vanguard, State Street and many more with big money in Safeco stock. If there was truly a problem with the McGavick deal wouldn’t the experienced professionals have beaten a lawyer and a student/waitress to court?
political whores
Like Mr “Civility” Mike :( McGreedy, ASS?
By the way where are you on your threats against me and Goldy? You don’t drop in here very often. You must be working hard on it.
Anybody know the name of the two Exectuive Compensation Firms (Experienced Professionals) the Board of Directors consulted prior to reaching the deal with McGavick?
why no large shareholders have a problem with the deal McGavick and the Board of Directors negociated?
They see this all the time. As these things go Mike’s :( payout was small potatoes. Small enough to fly under the radar of large shareholder scrutiny but large and stinky enough to finance a Senate bid.
RE 13
Are you implying that Gary Locke as a member of the board of directors is a party to a stinky senate bid?
Maria , McMike ??? all these choices , which multi-millionaire best represents your financial values . these two mutts are peas in a pod .
MM at 11: “…why no large shareholders have a problem with the deal McGavick and the Board of Directors negociated? I’m talking about big money managers, experienced professionals such as Dodge & Cox’s Inc, Vanguard, State Street and many more with big money in Safeco stock.”
Maybe you should ask them that. Maybe they KNOW that it was intended as a campaign contribution, and McGavick is a “bought” man, who’s job in the Senate would be to reward his sponsors with legislation to protect and enhance Safeco’s profits in particular, and insurance companies’s profits in general? If so, why would it be in their best interests to question the payment?
But as a Senate candidate, Safeco and Mike “I Got Mine” McGavick are between the horns of a delima.
(a) If the money is in payment for McGavick’s Senate campaign and for services expected to be performed on behalf of Safeco in the future as a U.S. Senator, it is illegal on at least two counts (violation of campaign financing laws).
(b) If Safeco does not expect to receive any future benefit from the money from McGavick as a candidate or as Senator, then it is a waste of corporate resources by the Boards of Directors, and can be forced to be refunded in a stockholder’s derivative suit.
The only “out” for this delimia is for Safeco and McGavick to convince a court that 28 million dollars is excessive compensation for two months of part-time advisory work, the actual amount of services performed being highly speculative. Somehow, 28 million seems a lot of money for someone to be “on call”, while campaigning full-time for the Senate.
By the way, if Mike “I Got Mine” McGavick worked 20 hours a week for the two month term of his “advisor’s contract” at the current minimum wage, then his gross pay would be $884.00 total. That’s assuming he worked 20 hours per week, which would be highly unlikely.
Perhaps now would be a good time to ask him about his position on the minimum wage again? He’s tried to duck the question by saying it doesn’t affect Washington wage rates, which are higher. But as I understand the House bill which is going before the Senate, it would actually require Washington’s minimum wage to be adjusted downward for food servers, bartenders, or anybody else who might receive a tip.
Gee, I remember working a college era job as a short-order cook and later a bartender and food server at a joint a couple of blocks from campus. The minimum wage was adjusted downward in those jobs to take into account all the “tips” we were supposed to be making. But students don’t tip!
So, would Mike support lowing the minimum wage for some Washington workers, or not? And how did “Sheriff Dave” vote?
14 – Until he explains himself or the board meeting minutes and discussions become public throught the lawsuit – YES.
JCH:
Yeah, like that crooked Democrat. By the way, ASSHOLE, what happened to him?
Hmmmmm. . . like I said, there’s always one bad apple in every group, however, in the Republican party it’s the exact opposite.
I’ll skip the king-sized laundry list of shitty Republicans. You know who they are, but I will include you as the typical lying scumbag, cock sucking, America hating, freedom destroying Republican.
Dick.
16 – You seem to be contradicting the lawsuit, have you forgotten this has nothing to do with partisan politics?
They say the payment was a WASTE of a corporate asset.
You say “…McGavick is a “bought” man, who’s job in the Senate would be to reward his sponsors with legislation to protect and enhance Safeco’s profits”
When you say it that way it sure seems like a smart move by the Board of Directors and will actually enhance shareholder value.
As usual, libs are also phoney on corporate pay. At least McGavick actually ran the company he got his millions from, and turned it around from a money-loser into a money-maker. Safeco shareholders made megamillions on the increase in the value of their stock after McGavick took over.
Cantwell(D-Mexico, voted for NAFTA and CAFTA) was just a VP PR flack who made no decisions of any importance, and got millions to fund her campaign. Cantwell’s(D-Mexico, voted to give social security benefits to illegal aliens) payoff from her dotcom make-work job was far more odious, but of course libs see nothing wrong with it, libs are entitled to big payoffs to fund their campaigns.
americafirst – Right, so there is no chance any of the other employees at Safeco had anything to do with the company’s valuation. I’m sure that a compensatory payout of equal value wasn’t made throughout the company. This is a corporate payoff of the worst kind.
I’ll skip the king-sized laundry list of shitty Republicans. You know who they are, but I will include you as the typical lying scumbag, cock sucking, America hating, freedom destroying Republican.
Dick.
Commentby GBS […………………………………………………………………………………………………GBS, You seem to have anger issues. Clearly you need help. Although you failed in your enlisted military service [“busted” to E3], maybe life will be better for you in the future. Now you need mental help to overcome you attitude problems. Is it time to “see someone”? Yes, Iyou and I know it is!]
@ 22:
Suck it up, pussy. Your party’s days for being in power are now under 100 days.
You bin Laden loving, Bush apologist dick.
Open question to all the regular HA supporters, sorry no Libertarians or Republicans this time.
Why is Safeco betting that McGavic will lose his Senate bid?
The winner will be eligible for the Bonus Question.
@ 24
I need to see your sorry ass in a dark alley. Fuck, a brightly lit any where will do.
Pussy.
22 – You’re lying about Cantwell which is typical for wingnut but even some of your fellow wingnuts have admitted Cantwell worked hard to help build that startup business.
Now Mike :( McGreedy on the other hand turned SafeCo around by cutting head count, withdrawing from expensive markets and outsourcing work to India.
GBS:
Tell us again about how JCH washed out as a pilot.
28 – Don’t forget also no doubt finding new and better ways to screw the policyholders.
Also re: 22/28 – I certainly don’t get the impression Shelley Morrison found Maria’s job to be all that cushy when she took it over.
Mountain Man at 21: “16 – You seem to be contradicting the lawsuit, have you forgotten this has nothing to do with partisan politics? They say the payment was a WASTE of a corporate asset.”
That’s the whole point. Safeco had already paid McGavick everything they were requred to pay under the employment contract. McGavick had already made millions in salary, bonuses, and stock options. Yet they decided to pay hime 28 million ADDITIONAL in salary, bonuses, and stock options, based only on a two-month part-time consulting contract?
OF COURSE its a political contribution. But Safeco can’t say that, because it would be illegal for them to make a political contribution of that magnitude. So they argue that it is additional payment for “future” services – two months worth of part-time consulting services.
They can’t make it for “past” services, because they had already paid him all he was entitled for those services, and a public corporation cannot make a gift to an executive for which they don’t receive some equivilant tangible present or future benefit.
Despite denials by some on this board, a publically-traded corporation such as Safeco cannot give away money any way it wishes. There are fiduciary obligations to the shareholders, tax deduction issues with the I.R.S. (which requires deductable business expenses to be “reasonable and necessary”), and SEC issues regarding executive compensation and disclosure rules.
The lawsuit only serves to close the other horn of the delimma faced by Safeco and McGavick. Either Safeco got 28 million dollars worth of benefit from the exit deal, or it didn’t. If it didn’t, it was a waste of corporate assets. If it did, then what services, exactly, did Safeco expect to receive from the deal? It was in all probability an illegal campaign contribution for unspecified services to be performed in the future as a U.S. Senator, attempted to be disquised as a post-employment compensation agreement.
Actually, pre-trial discovery in this lawsuit should be a lot of fun. I can see the first question in Plaintiff’s Request for Production of Documents: “(1) Provide all copies of all e-mails, correspondence, audio or video recordings, notes, records, or minutes created by any Safeco Director, Executive or Employee regarding any payments, to be made, or considered to be made to be made to Mike McGavick, or regarding any services or benefits provided, contemplated to be provided, or not provided, by Mke McGavick to Safeco”.
ok, so here we have a lawyer who is preparing to file suit against McGavick and Safeco, but he hasn’t found a plaintif yet. Isn’t it usually the other way around ? First you have someone who is wronged, damaged etc…than you get a lawyer ? I know there are ambulance chasers around, but Mr. Knoll can’t be one of those.
I like the sob story about the family heirloom. Just a quick check shows that Safeco split 2 times (2 for 1) since 87…that makes those whopping 50 shares 12 1/2 in 1987.
Actually, when this whole thing first came out, I didn’t think much of it as a campaign issue. Of course, it helped prove McGavick was in the back pocket of the insurance industry, but who didn’t know that already? I didn’t know the details of the compensation arrangement, so I expected that Safeco had pretty carefully drafted the agreement so that it exchanged future benefits (stock options not yet capable of being exercised) for current cash, or stock options in a different mix. Kind of like cashing out your long-term real estate contract for cash at a fixed present-value. That would have been much harder to attack.
Or, as I mentioned previously, if McGavick had just informed Safeco’s board six months previously that he was quitting, and they threw cash at him to induce him to stay for six months while they found a replacement CEO, then that might also have been a difficult nut to crack.
But based on the information available on the Plaintiff’s web site, McGavick and Safeco seemed to be in such a hurry to to this deal they didn’t bother to set it up properly. I guess they didn’t think anybody would look at it that closely, or they were so used to getting away with borderline compensation schemes they thought this would would fly also? It’s hard to say.
But where are Mike “I’ve Got Mine” McGavick’s ethics here? If we want ethical people in the U.S. Senate, shouldn’t he have said: “No, I’ve done very well under the employment agreement I signed when I was hired, just a few years ago, and negotiated in good faith. It’s not fair to the shareholders to pay me more than I am entitled.”
News Item: Reuters, Aug. 3, 2006:
“NEW YORK – Conservative Christian broadcaster Pat Robertson said Thursday the wave of scorching temperatures across the United States has converted him into a believer in global warming.
“We really need to address the burning of fossil fuels,” Robertson said on his “700 Club” broadcast. “It is getting hotter, and the icecaps are melting and there is a buildup of carbon dioxide in the air.”
Wow. Even Pat Robertson is turning into a “believer”. Yet MTR still doubts.
Maybe South Africa needs a few more SUVs… or bigmouth blowhart pimps and political whores like goldstein …
And in other EXPECTED good news regarding pimps and their political whores…
Hey E – Didja see today that 36% of hate filled kooks like you think that gummint was behind twin towers collapse?
Tell us, how is your engineering analysis coming?
Also, if you remember how much work it was to setup the kingdome for demolition, can you tell us how this conspiratorial cabal managed to drill all the holes, set all the charges, wire them up, and then detonate at precisely the right time? How did they conceal all that with NOBODY noticing?
You might also mention all this to your doctor in the insane asylum where you live. He may want to change your meds.
Full report please…
Suck it up, pussy. Your party’s days for being in power are now under 100 days.
You bin Laden loving, Bush apologist dick.
Commentby GBS [……………………………………………………………………………………………..Your anger is again an “issue”. GBS, do you assault women? Children? Have you been arrested lately?]
Thanks for the very lucid post, Goldy.
You are certainly right that the merits of this lawsuit vis a vis corporate governance law are not affected one whit by the political motivations of those who brought the suit, or those who helped them do so.
But the merits of this lawsuit as a political tactic to convince voters that McGavick is a bought-and-paid-for corpate scumbag depend strongly on the political motivations behind it.
I am happy to let the courts sort out whether McGavick broke any laws. It’s my job as a voter to determine whether he is fit for office. And I am unlikely to decide that he is unfit because he is the defendent in a lawsuit that, whatever its legal merits, I know to have been concieved as a partisan political tactic.
“Now, I understand that the McGavick campaign is trying to dismiss this lawsuit as nothing but dirty, partisan politics …”
What’s wrong with Democrats practicing dirty, partisan politics? Republicans do it every day, so why shouldn’t we? Why should they have a monopoly on dirty, partisan politics? Republicans want a monopoly on every fucking thing.
I think we should dish out MORE dirty, partisan politics on these America-hating fascist traitors. Before we hang them.
RE 32
Are you aware of the non-compete agreement?
29
“Tell us again about how JCH washed out as a pilot.” Commentby JDB— 8/3/06@ 3:51 pm
Yeah I wanna read that story too! I NEVER get tired of reading about how JCH LIED about his military service!!
A Chemical Imbalance
Growing seawater acidity threatens to wipe out coral, fish and other crucial species worldwide.
http://www.latimes.com/
25,Suck it up, pussy. Your party’s days for being in power are now under 100 days.
You bin Laden loving, Bush apologist dick.
Commentby GBS— 8/3/06@ 2:58 pm
Brilliant retort, moron.
28, You’re lying about Cantwell which is typical for wingnut but even some of your fellow wingnuts have admitted Cantwell worked hard to help build that startup business.
Now Mike McGreedy on the other hand turned SafeCo around by cutting head count, withdrawing from expensive markets and outsourcing work to India.
Commentby For the Clueless— 8/3/06@ 3:01 pm
Cantwell(D-Mexico) was just a PR flack who made no important decisions, it was a sham job to justify a payoff to fund her campaign. Just what exactly did she do to earn her millions? She provided nothing but political connections.
BUSH LEGACY: DIRTY BEACHES
The National Resource Defense Council’s annual “Guide to Water Quality at U.S. Beaches” says:
“NRDC’s annual survey of water quality and public notification at U.S. beaches finds that closings due to bacterial contamination continue to rise nationwide. In 2005, the number of closing and advisory days at ocean, bay, and Great Lakes beaches topped 20,000 –- more than ever recorded in the survey’s 16-year history. This edition of Testing the Waters also identifies the number of times each beach violated public health standards, finding that 200 designated swimming beaches violated these standards at least 25 percent of the time.”
http://www.nrdc.org/water/oceans/ttw/titinx.asp
From a NRDC press release (note that Washington ranks #2 for increased beach pollution):
“DANGEROUS POLLUTION LEVELS PROMPT RECORD NUMBER OF BEACH CLOSINGS NATIONWIDE
“NRDC Sues EPA for Failing to Update Obsolete Water Quality Standards
“WASHINGTON (August 3, 2006) — Bacterial contamination closed more beaches and prompted more health warnings for the third straight year, according to a report released today by the Natural Resources Defense Council (NRDC). The number of closing and health advisory days at ocean, bay and Great Lakes beaches topped 20,000 in 2005 — the most since NRDC began tracking the problem 16 years ago — confirming that our nation’s beaches continue to suffer from serious water pollution.
“This year’s report includes new information that provides a more alarming picture of the problem. For the first time, NRDC evaluated beachwater quality nationwide and found 200 beaches in two dozen states whose beachwater samples violated health standards at least 25 percent of the time. In most cases, beachwater was contaminated with bacteria, and beachgoers were either swimming in it or banned from swimming because of the health risks. Overall, 8 percent of the beachwater samples taken nationwide violated health standards.
“Current beachwater health standards, however, do not adequately protect the public and need to be updated, according to NRDC. Today the organization announced it is suing the Environmental Protection Agency for failing to modernize the standards as ordered by Congress six years ago. …
“In 2000, Congress passed the Beaches Environmental Assessment and Coastal Health Act (BEACH Act), which required the EPA to revise the current health standards by October 2005. The agency … says it will not be able to finish updating them until 2011.
“The current beachwater quality standards are 20 years old and rely on obsolete monitoring methods and outdated science that leave beachgoers vulnerable to a range of waterborne illnesses. Risks include gastroenteritis, dysentery, hepatitis, respiratory ailments and other serious health problems. For senior citizens, small children, and people with weak immune systems, the results can be fatal. …
“The states with the biggest jump in closing and advisory days compared with 2004 were Pennsylvania (1,200 percent), Washington (200 percent), Louisiana (165 percent before Hurricane Katrina), Mississippi (141 percent before Katrina), Indiana (115 percent) and Hawaii (91 percent). Nationally the number jumped 5 percent, from 19,950 days in 2004 to 20,397 days in 2005. …”
http://www.nrdc.org/media/pressReleases/060803.asp
I sure hope Goldy didn’t go swimming on his vacation, or his nuts might fall off.
Republicans, of course, don’t care if PRODUCERS are sickened, injured, or killed by contaminated beaches, dangerous drugs, or defective products; because if there’s a PRODUCER shortage, they can always import more PRODUCERS from Mexico.
Goldy I am not sure RubberStampReichert’s abuse of taxpayer funded franking deserves such a high place as your ass. He’s lower than whale shit so it should be used to wipe a whale’s ass maybe.
I was once a witness to an ironic incident that only occurs in real life because nobody could make them up. I worked for a reseller that Real was schmoozing to take on their server products, and Maria was in attendance at one of our meetings with them. I doubt that she realized it, but she was sitting right across the table from one of our systems engineers who had helped run Rick White’s successful campaign for her House seat.
46 – You’re a lying scumbag. OK, I’ll be little nicer. You’re so delusional, you don’t know you’re lying.
Lee Giles, a popular right wing radio talk show host at KLAY, active republican, former cop is arrested and in jail for child rape and porn. More great examples for us from the Biblethumpin right wing taliban. You right wing Christians must be proud!
Tommy DeLay bitch slapped again!
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14170545/from/RS.4/
Looks like we’ll have a Dem in that seat. Bye bye Tommy. Hope you and Deke get to share a cell you fucking cowardly crook!
He righties, one of your daddy’s now saying global warming is an issue?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14171691/
What’s a lying scumbag republican to do when his own heros start admitting the truth?
Neither do wannabe’s who pretend on blogs to have served in our nation’s military. We know you did NOT serve because you got caught lying about your supposed military service.
Commentby GBS— [……………………………………………………………………….LT, USN, 76-84, 1110, and 1 yr in reserves. I figure that is about twice as long as you, E3 GBS!!!]
Thanks for the excellent post, David. The description of Sound poitics as “lazily hawking dismissiveness,” you put your finger right on it…incisive and sincere political thinking and writing.
38
Behold, the redneck speeks [sic].
36% Mark, didja think ’bout that? Do you realize what that means? If their sample is representative and their methodology sound, then, on average, one in every three people you meet holds that type of view. One in every three of your neighbors (notwithstanding the possibility that your “neighborhood” could be atypical). One in every three of your coworkers (ditto). That would be 80 million people, if not more. Startling, innit? Howdja thunk that wouldda happened? I don’t see this shit getting reported in the so-called liberal media every day.
If you were in any way a curious person you would have already found some of the engineering analyses that have been around for quite a while that refute the official conspiracy theory. You would also be in the position to refute them substantially, rather than blow ideological diarrhea out your ass.
You’d also realize, for that matter, that neither the results of that study nor the numerous contrary theories do not, of necessity, exclude the possibility of the involvement of al Qaeda or other terrorist organizations. I realize that such nuances may be difficult for you to process, but do try to stretch yourself from time to time. It prevents sclerotic thinking.
Remember the words of Thomas Jefferson, Mark. (You do know who Thomas Jefferson was, right?) I think the following quote was aimed directly at people like you:
So which do you prefer, ignorant or free? You can’t have it both ways.
E – Do tell… so there are 80 million fucking idiots like you. That’s scary. And no, it is not representative. The sample was heavily biased with Bush haters. The sample statistics are on the HSNS web site.
But let’s get down to some practical realities. How the fuck did the demolition conspirators drill all those holes, set all those charges, wire them up and detonate them at exactly the right time WITHOUT ANYBODY NOTICING?
Also, go study the concept of “yield strength” and learn about it. Learn about the relationship between temperature and yield strength. Once you’re done with that, go investigate what grown ups call “impact loading”.
Also, I’m wondering when you got your steel license. Not many people have those…
hey Goldy when you wipe your ass do you also fuck yourself with your finger’s afterwards? Let us now Inquiry minds want to know. He, so you have a radio gig that no one listens to, have you seen the latest Arbitron ratings? Exactly, you’re worse than Erin Hart, just stick to what you do best which is “Bitch as Liberal”.
Hey Puddy – I think you and I are the only PEs here. “Dr E” is going to explain to give us the engineering explanation how it’s not possible for airplanes flying into the WTC buildings to cause the collapse. Should be great entertainment to see “moonbat engineering” theory in all its glory.
E – Also, just so we have the whole picture on your level of delerium… what caused that big fire at the Pentagon. Was it the plane that hundreds of people saw flying at treetop level, or was it a cruise missile?
Bush legacy = dirty beaches, dirty air, and dirty politics
Worst.President.Ever.
Dr E – Do you also believe that “global warming” is caused by me driving my SUV and that THE FUCKING SUN has nothing to do with it?
No Rabbit, Jimmy Carter is still the holder of that record.
60
When and where did you get your “steal” license? Pay your gambling debt, welsher.
60
Hey welsher — maybe it’ll comfort you to know I don’t believe those conspiracy theories about the twin towers being dynamited by CIA spooks … I think Bush hired Osama to do it.
Republicans = organized crime
I see in the news another Republican has been sent to prison for life. http://www.king5.com/localnews.....ac3dc.html
Havana– Cuba’s Communist Party tried to quell fears of chaos on Thursday following the temporary surrender of power by the ailing Fidel Castro but failed to clear up doubts over who is in charge of the island. In a typically cryptic message, the main Communist Party newspaper Granma printed an old speech by Raul Castro, who took over island leadership on Monday, saying that his brother’s only heir was the Communist Party itself. [………………………………………………………………………….Er, Dr. E, I thought you posted that Cuba was NOT communist. This will come as quite a big surprise to Cuba’s Communist Party Officials. hehe, JCH]
Gosh, I think I struck a nerve with redneck. Got news for ya Mark, this nation is full of Bush haters. The majority of Americans could be presumed to be “Bush haters”. Anyone who knows anything about the concept of American democracy, the intent of the founders, and the extent to which the GOP (along with “moderate” Democrats) have bastardized most of the vision of the Founders, should hate Bush and his plutocratic buddies.
So didja find and read any of them thar analyses, or is that to difficult for you to do? ‘I would think that, if you are really an “engineer”, it should fall under your professional purview, or at least your general intellectual curiosity (yes, I’m assuming that you even have such here) to do a little research and find out what these scholars are saying. Go ‘head, Mark, prove ’em wrong. Don’t come back until you have 100% irrefutable proof that you’re right.
As for me, I’ll cede my right to scepticism once the gubmint done proved beyond any questionable doubt that their theory is totally unfalsifiable.
“Er, Dr. E, I thought you posted that Cuba was NOT communist. This will come as quite a big surprise to Cuba’s Communist Party Officials. hehe, JCH]”
Craig, what are you, fucking stupid? Wait, don’t answer that.
I wonder how long this Seattle democrat is going to rot
http://seattletimes.nwsource.c.....hez03.html
Jew beware of liberals.
Here is an example of a typical Seattle democrat-
http://seattletimes.nwsource.c.....aq03m.html
E – OK, so in other words you can’t explain how the holes were drilled, how the charges were set, how they charges were wired and detonated at exactly the right time with NOBODY noticing.
You are a certified fucking loon…
Uh.. no… the nation is NOT full of bush haters. Here in FUWA there are a lot of them, but this is by no means a representative sample. If that were true, then why did he get more votes and higher percentages than your boy Bubba?
But at least you agree with my basic premise that you are primarily motivated by hate and not by some kind of bullshit intellectual curiosity.
E – Let me get this straight:
You think that an airplane flying into a tall building cannot cause it to collapse.
You think that the sun does not cause global warming.
Are you for real?
Mark – ‘smatter wif you, bubba? Cain’t you read? I said, “Don’t come back until you have 100% irrefutable proof that you’re right.” Don’t make me give you reading lessons. Got the proof? Let’s see it. Otherwise, to quote you ad nauseam, STFU.
Arguing with redneck is like yodeling into a barf bag: an exercise in true absurdity.
83
Thanks for your candor. At least you have the courage to admit your stupidity. At least we know which side of the Jeffersonian equation you choose to inhabit: ignorance.
While redneck is ostensibly doing his homework, the rest of you wingnuts can go ahead and sign this petition:
Help the guy out — he’s only got 107 signatures so far. He’s gonna need more help if he’s gonna rid the country of them their [sic] liberals.
46, You’re a lying scumbag. OK, I’ll be little nicer. You’re so delusional, you don’t know you’re lying.
Commentby For the Clueless— 8/3/06@ 6:05 pm
Another brilliant retort; you are as stupid as GBS.
Now Mike McGreedy on the other hand turned SafeCo around by cutting head count, withdrawing from expensive markets and outsourcing work to India.
Commentby For the Clueless— 8/3/06@ 3:01 pm
Maybe more stupid; at least GBS doesn’t wind up a pro-Cantwell(D-Mexico, voted for NAFTA and CAFTA) post with a complaint about outsourcing. You two aren’t bright enough to qualify as moonbats.
OK E – Give me 100% irrefutable proof that current temps are beyond natural variations. I will accept chi squared analysis.
Fucking idiot..
86
Mark – ’smatter wif you, bubba? Cain’t you read? I said, “Don’t come back until you have 100% irrefutable proof that you’re right.” Don’t make me give you reading lessons. Please try to stay on task. You’re the “engineer”. Didja do the reading? Got the proof? Let’s see it. Otherwise, to quote you ad nauseam, STFU.
Arguing with redneck is like yodeling into a barf bag: an exercise in true absurdity.
I feel like I’m repeating myself. Déjà lu?
Mark is the kind of student that college professors love to give F’s. Give them a simple assignment, and they refuse to do it, because it runs contrary to their “views”.
MTR@61 Gee, I looked to see if there was a Mark the Redneck listed as a Licensed PE in the state of Washington.
Just the same as being too cheap to pay your debt to Goldy, WERE YOU TOO CHEAP TO PAY FOR A LICENSE?/strong>. Perhaps another name? Mark the Retarded Redneck?
Otherwise, YOU”D BEST STFU, AND NOT BUILD ANYTHING IN THIS STATE!,/strong>.
93
Appearances are not always what they seem, are they now, Craig?
Okay, D. R. Craig it is. What does the “D. R.” stand for? And what’s up with the backslashes now?
gbs @26 did you not get kicked out of the navy for fighting. have you not learned your lesson.you need help now.
Ya know, I couldn’t find any PE credentials under the name of Mark the Welsher either! And while I was at it I couldn’t find any PE credentials for Puddybuddy or Pudster either.
Okay, who has a list of the companies that the Bullitt family owns and supports?
I want to make sure that they don’t get any of my money.
Roger,
Dirty beaches????????
Keep the dogs off of the beaches and they will be okay.
I thought it was evil and bad to own shares in a large corporation? Is that bullit woman evil, then?
smegma,
the Bullitt family is so heavily invested in Northwest companies that you’d probably have to move to Nevada.
Which, come to think of it, sounds like a lovely idea. I’d call Bekins for you, but the Bullitt family probably owns some of that too.
To be fair, there are many different interpretations of “owning original shares” of Safeco Corporation stock.
It would really be nice to have two (or more) “original shares” of General Insurance Company stock from its incorporation on February 28, 1923. By my calculations, with the numerous stock splits, each “original share” of General Insurance Company stock in 1923 would be equal to 9,504 shares of Safeco Corporation stock today.
http://phx.corporate-ir.net/ph.....tockSplits
Safeco Corporation stock is presently quoted at $53.92, so one “original share” would be worth $512,455.68. And someone who owned “original shares” (in the plural) would have to be a millionaire.
I wonder if they are any unexpired General Insurance Company stock options lying around out there from 80 years ago?
Richard, employee/incentive stock options as a form of compensation (which would be the only ones you’d have, since options that are publicly traded have expiration dates that would be WAY long gone- even ones like LEAPS only go to 2.5 years out) are pretty new. They weren’t handing them out back in the 1920’s.
100
“Keep the dogs off of the beaches and they will be okay.” Commentby sgmmac— 8/3/06@ 11:32 pm
You truly have your head buried in the sand, Mac.
What kind of crackpot lawyer puts a lawsuit together BEFORE they have a plaintiff?
“This isn’t dirty. This is just a lawsuit. And whatever its motivation, the facts do indeed speak for themselves.”
It is as dirty as your foul language. Yes, it is a lawsuit (thank you Capt Obvious). And the facts do speak for themselves:
FACT: Lawyer makes up a lawsuit and then goes looking for “plaintiffs”. Never mind the fact that the lawyer is a liberal “activist”.
FACT: Said lawyer meets with logcal leftwing nutjob blogger to ask fellow nutjobs if they want to pull an election year stunt. Not so amazingly, one steps forward.
FACT: The “plaintiff” so happens to also be a leftwing nutjob contributor.
FACT: Anyone can sue anyone in America for anything. That doesn’t mean the lawsuit will be successful.
Just more political theater that will not affect the race in any way at all.
@ 97:
No. I did NOT get kicked out of the Navy. Period.
I left due to EOS.
This lawsuit against McGavick is very political – but it is also well within the bounds of fair play. And it helps tell people that Mike! is a wealthy CEO who left SAFECO with a huge $28 million windfall. In other words, he doesn’t need to mow lawns to pay for the windows he breaks anymore, SAFECO has covered everything for him, including the costs of his Senate campaign.