Uh-oh… looks like our friend Stefan is huffing more of the fumes that fueled his paranoid fantasies about King County Records & Elections. This time he thinks he’s caught me an a scandal regarding the leak of confidential documents. I think it’s time for an intervention.
But the weirdest thing about Goldstein’s post is that it links to a document containing confidential legal advice given to the canvassing board under attorney-client privilege.
The ultimate leaker of the privileged communication is most likely Dean Logan himself. Several of the document’s pages were printed from Logan’s own e-mail account, and the document was faxed from Logan’s office (296-0108) —
We owe our thanks to the wonderfully clueless David Owngoalstein for compromising his source by posting this document with the original fax headers intact.
Um… I don’t so much mind Stefan’s insinuation that I am shiftless… but really, you’d think that after a year of having my boot print firmly embossed on his buttocks in terms of credibility and impact, he might finally come to terms with the fact that I am not stupid.
Whatever.
Anyway, as usual, Stefan has jumped to conclusions, reading scandal and conspiracy into some unrelated tidbit, and choosing to adopt an aggressively confrontational stance by burdening taxpayers with yet another frivolous public records request… instead of, um… say… asking nicely. If he had bothered to ask me, I would have told him that I had heard from a media source that KCRE had distributed these documents to reporters, and so I emailed Communications Specialist Bobbie Egan and asked for a copy. I further would have explained that the reason the document appeared to be faxed from Logan’s office is that Egan in fact, faxed it to me from Logan’s office. (As a service to taxpayers, I have posted a PDF of the cover page, so that Stefan can drop his unnecessary public records request.)
In this friendly conversation, Stefan might also have learned that I noticed the confidentiality statements on the documents, and emailed Egan back, asking for confirmation that confidentiality had been waived, and that I was free to post the documents in whole or in part, to which she replied:
Dean has waived A/C privilege and it is considered a public record.
Now, this whole incident is really very petty, but I think it’s a great illustration of the kind of sloppy and paranoid methodology that has plagued Stefan’s work from the start. He uncovers “facts” — like say, that I posted a confidential document — and then spins it into some nefarious tale of corruption and incompetence, without bothering to follow through on the research to back it up. This is why people who got their coverage of the election contest from (un)SoundPolitics are so grossly misinformed about what actually transpired.
And… this is why real reporters are so distrustful of bloggers like us. Especially, bloggers like Stefan.
oh….uh huh, goldy. trying to build a little back fire here to cover?
in a free country [of which seattle is obviously not a part] why should anyone have to ask really really nicely to get what should be provided anyway by their PUBLIC SERVANTS?
i think the whole point is that you are so much in sim’s pocket that you know things everyone should know…but doesn’t. you just don’t get it do you?
Dean has waived A/C privilege and it is considered a public record.
Does “Dean” have the right to unilaterally release any confidential documents released to the canvassing board?
I guess we now know that Goldy works somewhere in Bellevue :)
It is a good thing Goldy posted this on his website. It will probably take Dean Logan several weeks to respond to Stefan’s public records request.
Goldy does need to brush up on his PDF scanning abilities.
goldy W-O-R-K-S????
come on richard…stop teasing. ;)
you are so much in sim’s pocket that you know things everyone should know
Yeah, uh-huh, whatever – aluminum-hat girl.
Michael, the “C” in “A/C” means “client”. Dean Logan, or should I say the director of KCRE, is the client. Of course the client can waive privilege.
goldy W-O-R-K-S
Defined as putting in eight hours and getting paid for eight as opposed to working 16-20 hours and getting paid for eight which is aluminum hat-girl’s version of
slaverywork.Makes the bottom line look fatter.
The attorney-client communication was addressed to the King County Canvassing Board, not KCRE. Satterberg, for example, could sue Logan for violating his confidentiality.
oh Egan faxed it from Logan’s office…
Sure.
I guess that alone makes Stefan stupid, for not instantly believing that Egan faxed it?
Christ, you really are a moron goldy.
Goldy, Goldy, Goldy,
Do you really expect something like facts or real reporting to get in the way of the minnow’s paranoid delusions? After nearly a year of his web site, why would you expect the sudden about face?
Michael @ 8
“Satterberg, for example, could sue Logan for violating his confidentiality.”
Ummmm…perhaps. Or, maybe, all three members agreed to make this memo available. If they were handing them out to the press at the hearings, that seems most likely.
Goldy—
Precisely when were they handed out to the press????
I guess Stefan will probably find that out since it’s a public record too.
Oh what a tangled web Goldy weaves!
Oh, and Goldy, you should have known you were in good shape when Sharansky’s lame pun on your name this time was “Owngoalstein.” Remember all those “Own Goals” he claimed the Dems scored in the Election challange, and how they guarenteed a Glorious Republican Victory.
Sharansky must bless his lucky start that the BIAW doesn’t pay him to be correct.
Richard @3,
Jumping to conclusions, just like Stefan. No… you don’t know that I work in Bellevue. It is a virtual fax number.
Michael @ 8
“The attorney-client communication was addressed to the King County Canvassing Board, not KCRE. Satterberg, for example, could sue Logan for violating his confidentiality.”
Actually, I think you are almost certainly wrong. If the documents were prepared by Janine Joly, then the work was done for Logan—even if he ask her to address the resulting work to the whole Canvassing Board.
Remember Richard Pope’s description of the way lawyers work within KC here?
Pope (who is a lawyer) pointed out:
Logan can release from A/C privledge anything he asks Janine to do for him.
Here is the document header:
CONFIDENTIAL
ATTORNEY-CLIENT COMMUNICATION
NOT SUBJECT TO PUBLIC DISCLOSURE OR DISCOVERY
MEMORANDUM
TO: King County Canvassing Board
FROM: Janine Joly, Sr. Deputy Prosecuting Attorney
richard..it’s a ” virtual” fax number that goes along with the “virtual” J-O-B. heh heh heh…..
For the Clueless…….speaking as aluminum hat girl [i just love that…thanks] are you implying that i make my employees work many more hours than they are being paid for? and just what would you base this on goldy? oh, sorry, i meant “for the clueless” OF COURSE…;)
no wonder the word J-O-B gets caught in his filter. “work” is the only four letter word that he doesn’t like alot………
Am I reading you wrong Michael or did you completely miss the above description of events?
Funny how the log-cabib republicans are willing to waste taxpayer money to “uncover” the smallest idiotic thing and yet we hear nothing from them about the perjury of their own stooge Lori (LICK ME) Stotelo.
Who cares about the stuff that Steffy spends hours on? Really? And as Goldy states, isn’t that perv Steffy tired of being shown for the fool he/she/it really is?
[Stefan] uncovers “facts” – like say, that I posted a confidential document – and then spins it into some nefarious tale of corruption and incompetence, without bothering to follow through on the research to back it up.
In fact, I emailed Dean Logan about this yesterday morning, cc:ing his executive assistant, the members of the canvassing board and Janine Joly. I have yet to receive a reply. It remains an open question whether Logan has the right to unilaterally waive privilege on behalf of the entire canvassing board.
oh god……left turn is obviously goldy too. geez…once again…can’t you at least make up better names? try to watch the cadence[ and wording..the LICK ME gave you away] too when you are going after stefan…your [freudian] slip is showing yet again……
Michael @ 16
“TO: King County Canvassing Board
FROM: Janine Joly, Sr. Deputy Prosecuting Attorney “
I am not sure if you are responding to my point or not. It is irrelevant who Joly addressed this to. If Logan asked for the work to be done, then he is the client.
Ahahahahaa, wow, (wipes tears of laughter from eyes). Why would anybody (and I mean anybody, even someone as stupid as say, Mr Cynical or Christmasghost) BLOG a defense of a possible client confidentiality breach, unless he was sure it wasn’t one? Now that reasoning may be a little complicated for some of you vote conspiracy theorists out there, so I’ll parse it: The only reason Goldy would respond in writing (OK, electrons, bits whatever) was that he was sure he was in the clear. Otherwise he shut the hell up, until the proscecuters flipped him to go after someone else, just like Abramoaf is going to do.
Speaking of which, that will be the mother of all shitstorms eh? He LITERALLY knows where the bodies are buried, and he’s going to take a whole corrupt pack of weasels with him (R and maybe D, who knows?), becuz he’s a craven self serving political animal …a lobbyist! Oh, if there is a Gott in Himmel, it’ll be just before the 2008 elections.
And finally, I know where Goldy works (if u want to call it that) and, it ain’t Bellevue. Considering the demographics over there, who can blame him? The fact that y’all leapt to that conclusion shows a) you are not very technically savvy, so you shouldn’t try to appear smarter than you are* and b) you’ve got a wee bit of an obsession about Goldy, which is unseemly and, frankly, a bit creepy. Get a life.
* It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than open your mouth and remove all doubt.
Too funny.
That’s the thing about classified documents which Stefan misses, once they are not “classified” anymore, tney still have the word “classified” on them as the original can’t be changed.
Oh well.
I still want to know what the “Count Every Vote” Democrats think about Dean Logan refusing to count 167 absentee ballots as “No Signature On File” — i.e. Logan lost their voter registration applications, so there was no signature on file to match their absentee ballots with.
Please refer to Line 3c8 on the King County Mail Ballot Report for the November 8, 2005 general election:
http://www.soundpolitics.com/M.....rt2005.pdf
Signature verification is done by computer screens — comparing the signature on the envelope with the image on file. Obviously, Logan knows he has lost these people’s signatures — but mails them absentee ballots in every election like nothing happened, knowing that he will NEVER count their ballots no matter what.
Or is “Count Every Vote” only important when the election is really close, and the Democrat is behind?
Sharkansky @ 20
“In fact, I emailed Dean Logan about this yesterday morning, cc:ing his executive assistant, the members of the canvassing board and Janine Joly. I have yet to receive a reply.”
In other words, Goldy is correct in stating that you spun this “into some nefarious tale of corruption and incompetence, without bothering to follow through on the research to back it up.”
You got to follow through ALL THE WAY Sharkansky, not just half-way.
While you guys from Guyana might believe Goldy,,
I ain’t drinking his kool-aid. No way Logan and Sims not talking, unfairly sharing stuff w/ the little guy.
Still waiting for dwarf mail box expose…
* It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than open your mouth and remove all doubt.
why…you took the words right out of my mouth. and i’ll bet that’s exactly what ron sims is thinking right now too. lay down with dogs….get fleas.
erik…..once documents are not classified anymore do they not get stamped with “de-classified”?
goldy has a big mouth. i believe he is proud of that fact so it’s no insult to him. but i think he just may have gone too far this time.
hey goldy….”don’t poke the bear”.
you might want to remember that.i can just imagine what logan, sims and maleng are thinking right now………..
Richard Pope @ 25
“I still want to know what the “Count Every Vote” Democrats think about Dean Logan refusing to count 167 absentee ballots as “No Signature On File” – i.e. Logan lost their voter registration applications, so there was no signature on file to match their absentee ballots with.”
Ummm…why don’t you look into that and actually present facts, Richard, instead of groundless (and sensationalist) speculations. In the past, your sensationalist rants usually transform into reasonable interpertations AFTER you actually do the homework to understand the situation.
My guess is that KC sent those folk written requests for affidavits (and phoned them as well) just like KC does for everyone whose signature doesn’t match or who forget to sign the ballot. But, that is just speculation—hopefully without too much sensationalism.
It is rather amazing what you can find out simply by asking nicely and not being an asshole about things. This goes for both government and the party machinery.
Seriously. They’re real people. Send an e-mail. Have a beer. You’ll get a lot farther and learn a lot more than running straight to your blog to berate people for some imagined slight.
@22 I am not an attorney, but I am pretty sure A/C priveledge applies to whomever the legal advice was given, not only who asked for it.
Righton @ 28
“I ain’t drinking his kool-aid. No way Logan and Sims not talking, unfairly sharing stuff w/ the little guy.”
Hmmm…well since they shared it with the Big Boys* at the press, perhaps it implies that they take Goldy more seriously as a journalist than Goldy take himself as a journalist.
*By using “Boys,” I don’t mean to imply anything about the sex or gender of press members. I just liked the alliteration.
Michael @ 32
“I am not an attorney”
No kidding?
(Ohhhh…that was a cheap shot—I’m, not one either :-) )
“but I am pretty sure A/C priveledge applies to whomever the legal advice was given, not only who asked for it.”
I am almost certain you are incorrect. A/C privledge applies to the client. The relevant question is whether Logan or the Canvassing board is the “client” in this case. Administratively, that would seem to be Logan.
But, I still strongly suspect the entire board decided to release the information to the press—whether or not consent by the other two members was required.
Hey Ghost @29,
That’s one of the emails Stefan’s going to obtain with his public records request, so I might as well just make it public myself. (Oops… just noticed I spelled Bobbie’s name wrong in it. Oh well.) Bobbie clearly replied that this was public record.
See… the difference between me and Stefan is that I’m careful about my facts, my sources, and my analysis. There’s no defending him on this one… he jumped the gun in assuming dirty-dealings, and in maligning both my actions and my intentions. He was wrong. Admit it.
I am not an attorney, but I am pretty sure A/C priveledge applies to whomever the legal advice was given, not only who asked for it.
In Washington state, attorney communication is only protected to the extent it would contain or reveal the client(Dean Logan)’s communications. Then add the fact this communication wasn’t being sent to the client…
It’s doubtful A/C priv ever really applied and even needed to be waived.
Maybe there is nothing to this at all, but Goldy, why dont you email Bobbie E., and ask her to confirm in writing (email) that these doc’s are now Public.
Wouldn’t that clear everything up?
ghost once documents are not classified anymore do they not get stamped with “de-classified”? Not normally. I’ve seen that done once or twice, but generally they dont get that stamp.
goldy,
Got any other semi public stuff from Bobbi and Dean you wanna share? Or are you only sharing when convenient (or i guess i should say they are only sharing w/ friends like you)
dj @ 27:
Give the minnow some credit. His post may be the first thing he has ever published that is truthful: He ran with his parnoid delusions before getting any confirmation, or even an explanation. We always knew this is how he runs his site, it is just nice for him to confirm it.
Chris @37,
Do you even bother reading my posts?! I already posted her email reply that this was public record. Sheesh!
“They’re real people. Send an e-mail. Have a beer. You’ll get a lot farther and learn a lot more than running straight to your blog to berate people for some imagined slight.”
this is a chilling view of the way things are supposed to work in america. are you sure you weren’t thinking about the old USSR and mistakenly put beer in instead of vodka?
the day you have to bribe or be “really really” nice to a public servant to have your rights NOT violated is the day you lose your freedom.
i can’t believe that anyone would actually think this was a good line…oh, wait, this is seattle.what was i thinking????
the bottom line is….stefan was trying to protect the voter’s rights and goldy is a party shill that wants to take your rights away from you.so who do you think really has something to personally gain here? this isn’t rocket science and even you non-readers in seattle should be able to figure this one out.
stefan had nothing to gain….and goldy wants to be IN POWER. how dim can you people be????
anyone that thinks that what goldy/sims/logan are doing is a good thing should just move to china right now. rumor has it…they are REALLY REALLY good at taking your rights away……
ChristmasGhost @ 21
“oh god……left turn is obviously goldy too. geez…once again…can’t you at least make up better names?”
Oh brother (*rolls eyes*). How on earth did you come to that “conclusion?” In any case, get some professional help.
ChristmasGhost @ 41
‘“really really” nice to a public servant”
Ummmmm…..the comment that Goldy made about asking nicely was about Stefan asking Goldy nicely. Not a “public servant.”
You seem to have reality perception difficulties today, Ghost.
You seem to have reality perception difficulties today, Ghost.
Why should today be any different than any other?
“In this friendly conversation, Stefan might also have learned that I noticed the confidentiality statements on the documents, and emailed Egan back, asking for confirmation that confidentiality had been waived, and that I was free to post the documents in whole or in part, to which she replied:
Dean has waived A/C privilege and it is considered a public record.”
Ok Goldy, I read the above, and your above email to her, but did she reply to you IN WRITING???? Did you post a PDF file somewhere that I have missed?
That is all I am asking.
Oops sorry about the all italics
I love Goldy’s concern over costs associated with citizens making public records requests, but apparantly no concern with the cost of Ron Sims losing lawsuits requiring him to disclose public documents.
Goldy – if reporters don’t trust bloggers its because of hypocrites like you.
the day you have to bribe or be “really really” nice to a public servant to have your rights NOT violated is the day you lose your freedom.
i can’t believe that anyone would actually think this was a good line…oh, wait, this is seattle.what was i thinking????
Government workers are people and they’re not there for you and Stefan to shit on all the time. When you’re an asshole like him, you’re only going to get answers from people to the extent required by law. And outside the public sector, you’re not going to get any answers at all.
This is true everywhere in this world, public and private sector.
So stop being an asshole and you’ll find people much easier to deal with all around.
Chris, first you say
ask her to confirm in writing (email) that these doc’s are now Public
(bolding added by me)
Then you say (after having that email pointed out to you)
but did she reply to you IN WRITING???? Did you post a PDF file somewhere that I have missed
So, the implication here is that if shown a pdf with a signature, you then voice doubt over the authenticity of that and ask for a noterized affidavid, and once getting that you ask for a visit to your house. I mean come on, you got what you asked for.
I’m suprised at the wanks on this thread who nit-fucking-pick on the smallest stuff, with the tinniest of tinfoil hats on. I’ve heard the worst shit about KCRE, and somehow the accusation goes away. Dean Logan leaks info to Goldy by having it faxed to him by someone else from his own office, and then giving the same info to news people? What the fuck, people. Grow a f-ing pair, already.
KCRE can’t be sinister and at the same time be incompetant. That’s impossible. Come on, its either/or.
Bill @ 50
For Petes sake, Where in the hell on this thread is an email FROM Bobbie E. stating that the records are now public. I can’t seem to SEE it anywhere.
Goldy posted his email TO her, but not her reply.
I was not being rude, just trying to see THE POINT of all of this bullshit, if she had replied to him in email form.
Goldy, when you emailed Bobbie Egan how long did it take to get your request for a document back. A day? A Week? Certainly less than 10 days!
So when Goldy asks from Goldy’s high paid friends at KC, Goldy Recieves Pronto Tonto!
When Stephan asks, Stephan waits until KC is damn ready, or as was the case with the recent database change logs until they are legally forced to act!
If you don’t see what’s potentially wrong with this situation, I can’t help you!
beltowner..
you guys came up with the incompetance spin, not us. I recall it was “poor overworked kcre bound to make a few mistakes”
If you don’t see what’s potentially wrong with this situation, I can’t help you!
It’s called human decency. When you treat people like shit, like Stefan does, they only help you to the extent they’re required. Goldy conducts himself in a courteous manner and is treated in kind.
Stop being an asshole – You’ll be shocked to discover the doors it opens for you. Throwing infantile tirades like Stefan won’t get you anywhere in life.
alexia
you mean like Sims whining after he made the room laugh about his “bank like” accuracy?
Chris @53, look in the original post by Goldy. One of the indented parts, reading “Dean has waived A/C privilege and it is considered a public record.”, is preceded by the description that it’s Egan’s reply. It may not look like an email, and probably doesn’t satisfy your need to see it “in writing” but it was all part of the original post.
Read the original post. He quoted the email from her. The bit about “Dean has waived A/C privilege and it is considered a public record.” was her reply to his email.
You did originally say, quite specifically email, and he reported that she did indicate that this had been made public via email in response to the email that he later posted in this thread.
Ok, the sequence of data release was backwards, but its only two emails.
Skinny @ 58
Thank you. In my post at #46, I included that same reference. My whole point was “if Goldy had an Email reply (not his Email TO her) wouldn’t that explain/clarify the Public Disclosure issue.
If Bobbie E. gave the go ahead, without consulting the others, then it is her ass not Goldy’s.
55
What, so ya’lls spin was “fraud”, which has NEVER been proven? It is odd to say, but uSP and their efforts have made me more confident in KC, after all, if Stefan spends fucking hours and hours looking for fraud/incompetance, and he’s wrong ninety percent of the time, then I get the feeling that if it were there, he’duh fucking FOUND that shit by now. It doesn’t help that from a credibility standpoint, no gives a shit anymore about what he does (besides stupid cunts like Michelle Malkin). But if that’s the company he wants to keep…
Belltowner @ 61
Wow, your language is really inappropriate. I am glad I have no children reading over my shoulder right now.
Chris @53,
READ THE DAMN POST!!!
I wrote that I emailed Egan for confirmation that confidentiality had been waived, and that she replied: “Dean has waived A/C privilege and it is considered a public record.” That passage clearly implies that she replied to my email, via email.
GS @54,
As I replied to you over on (u)SP, my request was made to a communications specialist whose job it is to handle media requests, and all I asked for was a pre-existing document that she had already distributed to the media. Stefan often makes huge complex requests for information that is not in the form requested. You really can’t compare the two.
And as Aexia points out, it wouldn’t hurt him if he said please or thank you once in a while.
gschroe @ 54
“So when Goldy asks from Goldy’s high paid friends at KC, Goldy Recieves Pronto Tonto!
When Stephan asks, Stephan waits until KC is damn ready, or as was the case with the recent database change logs until they are legally forced to act!
If you don’t see what’s potentially wrong with this situation, I can’t help you!”
No…the problem here (other than your propensity to see ordinary stuff as conspiracy) is that….
GOLDY ASKED THE CORRECT PERSON FOR THE DOCUMENT!
If you want something that has been released to the press, you ask Bobbie Egan. If Sharkansky has asked Egan for the document, he would have, no doubt, gotten it sent to him pretty quickly.
Sharkansky didn’t ask Egan for this document. He asked for all relevant documents through a public records request, rather than asking via the “press” route. That makes it Sharkansky’s blunder.
To say Stefan prints “half-truths” is too much. I don’t even think what he write is half true. Maybe 25 percent… Matt Rosenberg on the other hand, is a writer’s writer, a gentleman so talented and gifted that I feel just LUCKY to share the same blogosphere with him.. He’s a treat, a treasure, and I hop the P-I picks him up. Just a gifted master of prose.
Matt Rosenberg, gifted, wordly, a gentleman.
Ghost:
“stefan was trying to protect the voter’s rights. . .”
I know it is Friday, and we are in the Holiday season, so it is easy to be distracted and tired, but you were not trying to be serious? Mr. Sharansky has never found a voter in the Seattle area who’s rights he didn’t want to strip, and has even admitted to violating § 29A.84.630 on his own web site:
RCW § 29A.84.630 Influencing voter to withhold vote
Any person who in any way, directly or indirectly, by menace or unlawful means, attempts to influence any person in refusing to give his or her vote in any primary or special or general election is guilty of a gross misdemeanor punishable to the same extent as a gross misdemeanor that is punishable under RCW 9A.20.021.
Chris @ 62
“Wow, your language is really inappropriate. I am glad I have no children reading over my shoulder right now. “
Fuck you! There is no language police on HA. This blog is known for being “edgy.” If you don’t like the language, surf your ass to some other web site.
I’m glad Stefan Sharkansky is doing all he can to dispel the stereotype that jews are demanding, arrogant, spiteful, and most of the time, not nice to regular people.
@ 62
Do children read this blog? No, but plenty of people who act like children do.
Chris, would you like some cheese with your whine?
Can I call you a Whaaaaaaaaaaambulance?
I’m still concerned that Stefan has made no move to go on a vegetarian diet, get some good cardio exercise, and lose those unsightly and flabby MAN BOOBS he’s starting to develop!!
You know righties… Goldy is right about one big ass point. Everytime I read SoundPolitics, almost everytime, there is a conspiracy. Ironically, it is the same message I hear from the Washington GOP. And I think he makes that point about Stephan very well.
One of the hardest things to blog about is conspiracy (I saw a bit of this on Bradblog so don’t call me partisan). The main reason, I think, is that few get all the facts before writing. Instead they develop the story based on smaller pieces of information. After you hit the brick wall on information it is hard to change direction from your original intent or opinion and, !viola!, you are painted in a corner.
Stephan has done this over and over again. It is almost painful to watch a smart guy loose touch like that. Almost to the other spectrum, I have read HA and continually find writing and information, partisan as it may be, that points to facts and information sources outside of the author that actually lead somewhere. Yes partisan (I said it again), but importantly, the writing does not desperately hold on, or continue to search, for information that supports something proven to be false or of circumstance that does not warrant conspiracy (think voter challenge at the poll).
If those of you that want a conservative voice in a really blue area like KC are going to achieve this, you will have to do better than Stephan, KVI and the like.
The only thing I can credit Stephan (in his personal voter challenge), and the GOP’s 2000 or so voter challenges with is that it has become obvious there are some documentation, rules changes and database management issues to be addressed. But unfortunately, that wasn’t the message. You smart people can do better than that. It’s not about Rossi anymore, it is about you. And it isn’t looking that good.
Wow…Sharkansky has updated his post, and now has a picture of Goldy posted.
What is this obsession that Sharkansky has with Goldy? I mean, this is the third post this Fall about Goldy. And, now he is even putting pictures of Goldy up! Is this the sign of deep jealousy? Or is this some kind of man crush? I just don’t understand Sharkansky’s obsession. Why can’t Sharkansky write stuff without bringing up Goldy anymore? Sharkansky needs to learn how to write to his own audience, not Goldy’s.
(Note: satire warning).
DJ:
Satire noted, but also note, a post about Goldy are usually the only posts to get more than a hand full of comments at Sharansky’s site. If he wants to get eyes on his site, he has to use Goldy.
OMG, like he is taking pictures of you Goldy. That is wierd.
Goldy @ 63
Then post the Email and prove it. That would solve the problem wouldn’t it???
I’m glad Stefan Sharkansky is doing all he can to dispel the stereotype that jews are demanding, arrogant, spiteful, and most of the time, not nice to regular people.
Whoa, “Belltowner”, you left out the bits about having horns, making matzah with the blood of gentile children, and conspiracies to control the world. Seriously, are any of the resident liberals here going to criticize this Belltowner jerk for his anti-semitic remarks?
Wow, the minnow just leaps from one absurdity to another. First he posts a story, having not done any research or having any facts, just his paranoid delusions. Now he posts his stocking photos of Goldy, and supposedly because Goldy is sitting near Bobbie Egan (and, boy oh boy, does the photo capture the heat between the two; Goldy, you hound dog you) that is now his excuse for running with a non-story.
Wow, with the same level of information, I guess I could post a story about how Sharansky, David Irons, Dino Rossi and Chris Vance are members of a satanic cult. I have exactly as much supporting information as the minnow has for any of his posts.
>What is this obsession that Sharkansky has with Goldy? I mean, >this is the third post this Fall about Goldy.
The funny and strange thing is now Stefan is having to linking to HA for documents. At least in the old days, Stefan had his own excel spreadsheets.
Nope… we just loved your response. Funny!
JDB @ 72
“Satire noted, but also note, a post about Goldy are usually the only posts to get more than a hand full of comments at Sharansky’s site. If he wants to get eyes on his site, he has to use Goldy.”
Yep…there is something about Goldy that drives people to comment! But, in fairness to Sharkanksy, uSP does get higher traffic on most days than does HA. (Why be fair to Sharkansky? Because…umm…it is objectively true).
I should also point out that my post @ 71 was not a slam to Sharkansky. I was mocking the idiots who post similar stupid stuff whenever Goldy critiques a post of Sharkansky’s. Somehow, the idiots don’t realize that it is okay for one blogger to critique the posts of another blogger on a blog (particularly if the other blogger is something of a blogging rival).
JDB, no you are wrong, you dont have as much supporting information. First you’ve got to send him an email asking him if its true, and if he doesnt respond in 24 hours you can post that as being assumed true.
re 76: It’s just a joke ,Stefan. You know, like Ann Coulter’s. Seriously, treading into the racial sterotyping is dicey business, even if you have no evil intent. But I suspect Stefan Sharansky realizes that after his repeated hilarious(not) comparisons of Ron Sims with Robert Mugabe.
There’s a saying about “glass houses”. Maybe you should look it up?
Stefan @ 76
I tried to tell him his language was inappropriate, I wouldn’t dare tell him he is an ASS for his slander against the Jewish people. But hey I am not a Lefty either.
Bill @ 81
“First you’ve got to send him an email asking him if its true, and if he doesnt respond in 24 hours you can post that as being assumed true.”
Actually, to make the situation parallel, JDB would have to email the public servant (which would exclude Sharkansky, Rossi, and Vance) and make a public records request for all correspondence relating to said satanic cult. And then email Irons and his administrative assistant and lawyer asking when the cult’s next meeting is. And then wait.
Well… At least the picture Stefan put up on (un)Soundpolitics has Goldie sitting next to Bobbie unlike the one the Republicans leaked to the Press with Kerry 20 or 30 rows back from Jane Fonda.;) But the reasoning trying to draw a connection is just as untenable. Just because you sit next to someone doesn’t mean there is any connection beyond a ‘friendly’ on, if that. Heck, I ride the bus every day and this lady sits near me most days. Being the unfriendly person that I am, I don’t even know her name, but using Stefan’s logic there is some unholy alliance between us. :P
dj, oh sure, but only 24 hours.
It hasn’t been said for a while, but you WA state Reps need to remember: Despite your best efforts to steal the election, Christine Gregoire is still the duly elected governor of this state. And, we have a new gas tax to make sure we can keep our roads safe and well repaired.
Why don’t you Reps just give up and move to the deep South— where you will be understood, if not entirely welcomed, as philosophical soul-mates of the KKK but carpetbagging Yankees, nonetheless…
While I don’t doubt that Stefan meant the photo (and his inaccurate description) to imply something improper by innuendo, I’m guessing that it was also a subtle attempt at intimidation. Why else would he be taking pictures of me…? …unless… eeewwww!!!
Careful Stefan… you wouldn’t want me to retaliate by posting all those compromising photos taken by the guy I hired to follow you.
goldy@35………says” He was wrong. Admit it.”
i think not goldy…make me. ;)
and dj @44….i was referring to a comment made by one of the dimmer bulbs in the lefty blogosphere, aexia, when i made that comment.the fact that you are assuming that stefan [or i for that matter] are not polite to public servants when we request information from them is ludicrous.i know i am ,and i’m pretty sure stefan is too.[anyone that has ever dealt with “the big desk /small brain” syndrome that most trough feeders/government workers feel they are entitled to…especially in washington…knows the only way to deal with them is as if they were members of the communist party in good standing and you are NOT]
the problem i have with what aexia wrote was that basically she was saying that if you want info you better be kissing ass. you may not like what stefan writes or what he is doing but can’t you see that if you are looking for the really rude whiney individual here it would be goldy. the only four letter word he doesn’t ever use of like is WORK.
now imagine the shoe on the other foot. imagine that seattle/king county was ruled [and that’s the word for it] by republicans. and this situation was reversed. how would you like it?
you wouldn’t.
and as far as the anti-semitic comments made by a total idiot….they speak for themselves don’t they? and i notice that not one tiny little liberal has even called the person to task for it.
that says alot right there……..
Goldy @ 88
Can you post Bobbies Email response????
chris, your language criticism is item 62. Belltowners (incidently extremely offensive, however, since it was shark asking, I refuse to criticize.) post is item 68. (at least it is right now, I restrain from using item numbers normally because they change — a lot).
I tried to tell him his language was inappropriate sounds like the little girl who made straight A’s and graduated unable to read. Well, that or it sounds like Cartman, take your pick.
Bill
At least I didnt call him a pencil richard
Chris @90,
Sheesh… I already did! You need the email header too?
That’s the full extent of her reply, other than copying my email to her (which I’ve already posted.) There… you satisfied?
Goldy, can you get that notarized and post a pdf by 6:30 please? Thanks.
I seriously do not know the answer here, but when you are around others, should you follow whatever local custom is or should you impose whatever your own customs are and insist anyone who has customs different than yours is just wrong? (In this usage I am using wrong to mean the opposite of good rather than the opposite of correct.)
In the context of this board, I would suggest that calling someone you disagree with a pencil dick is the more appropriate response (although I would hope that you followed that up with sound reasoning.)
Skinny… I’m thinking maybe I should just have it tatooed on Chris’s ass.
Chris @ 88,
Look at Goldy’s to you at 63.
Notice those tiny slanted parallel lines in the middle? Those are called quotation marks (or quote marks for short). In the context Goldy used them, they imply a literal transcription of something someone else said.
But Goldy, that still doesn’t prooooove that she wrote what you say she did. I’m just gonna wait til the public records request comes through. And if that doesn’t happen by the time I leave tonight, there’s gonna be hell to pay!
Yeah… hell to pay. whatever.
WHAT GOOD NEWS — Goldy has the true instincts of a good reporter and the Shark is a mean. single track, right wing, pitiful propagandist.
And actually not too bright to boot. Chasing scandal has its pifalls and one just must need to check just a few facts.
Bobbie Egan, the pr person in logan’s office is top notch.
There is no attorney client priviledge in the every day maechanics of ballot processing miscellany. Absurd reason nut wings.
NutWingSuckersFuckers are all so fucked. Glad you don’t wotk at the newly going stronger Boeing. Of course you do not like union wages and benefits, so go to Wall Mart.
And so, congrats, Goldy. another good job.
Find an attorney to sue for civil damages in the ballot trashing votes game. Possible millions from the right jury. What is the value of citizenship and the right to vote?
People have died for that right, many times in many places.
Phone records and e-mails (including deleted) are public records.
When government officials have something to hide, they do everything they can to dodge disclosure. Remember the revelations a couple years ago about L&I employees looking at porn sites and even carrying on e-mail affairs???
It’s rampant in government…and hell when you get busted. Just ask Jim West!!!
The problem of getting to the bottom of stuff is that you MUST rely on the Information Technology people within the County to go and retrieve the deleted files and e-mails. And who controls the IT Department….none other than Don Ron Sims King. That’s where the buck stops.
It is kind of hard to imagine that KingCo Elections would be stupid enough to release privileged information to a fringe lunatic LEFTIST PINHEAD Blogger named David CLOWNstein, isn’t it?? But we’ll find out when all the Records Requests are produced hopefully.
Stefan should be ashamed of himself.
now imagine the shoe on the other foot. imagine that seattle/king county was ruled [and that’s the word for it] by republicans. and this situation was reversed. how would you like it?
I’ve always conducted myself in a courteous manner when requesting information from every county so I’ve never really had this problem. Given that KCE has been easily been the most responsive and open elections departments to deal with, I really have to figure that the problem isn’t KCE but Stefan himself.
Stefan is really desperate. To try and make news out of nothing…be faced with specific answers to his charges and evidence that he misspoke, you would figure he would do what he said republicans are famous for (but not democrats): Apologize.
Instead, he produces a photo with the intent of suggesting ridiculous things.
What a sad state he must be in to do this.
Stefan…act quick and apologize and save some face….if not for you, for your wild and crazy supporters…
Stefan @76
Seriously, are any of the resident liberals here going to criticize this Belltowner jerk for his anti-semitic remarks?
I’m kinda the resident rightish-thingy. But you are correct: Belltowner turns a neatly liberal blog into a racist
crosssynagogue-burning event.bill @91-ish
I tried to tell him his language was inappropriate sounds like the little girl who made straight A’s and graduated unable to read. Well, that or it sounds like Cartman, take your pick.
So, can we come up with a way to ensure that somebody learns how to read (and write) in our taxpayer-funded schools, or do you have an as-yet unplanned ulterior motive?
OK, so I got about half way through, and I can’t stand any more christmasghost. I work for King County, and I AM NOT your servant. I have a defined scope of work, and I perform it well. I do respond to public requests for info, and the rules are if it’s an existing document, and not priviliged,, I give it to you. If I have a document with 1+1, I do not have to tell you it equals two. We do not gererate work on request. We work for the general public, and do not serve any individual.
But if you are nice, I will do the addition for you.
We are human too.
re 105: Stefan took him to task. He doesn’t need your sorry ass to back him up—or does he. You never take MTR and others of his ilk for race-baiting. And none of you righties have taken Stefan Sharansky to task about his own racist comments regarding Ron Sims. So, what I’m really trying to say is: Eat me raw,SUCKER!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Loocey @107
Are you about stupid or what?
I can SEARCH for more of my comments…but you are stoopid, so why would I do that?
Raw? Yuck…won’t catch me in your whatever clause…
@1
“why should anyone have to ask really really nicely to get what should be provided anyway by their PUBLIC SERVANTS?”
Uhhh … ghost … did you READ Goldy’s post? It WAS provided by your public servants — to reporters. That’s a hell of a lot more transparency than we got from Cheney about his Energy Task Force. But then, you didn’t mind paying $3 for gas this summer, or having your electric bill triple after Bush took office, did you?
Oh God … dear God … why are our trolls so STOOPID?!!
@2
Yes.
Aexia@103………you don’t get out much, do you? the only reason they are giving you info on request with a wink and a smile is because you’re obviously portraying yourself as what you are…..a liberal. get real
and as for you “K”….. why does it not surprise me that you are a king county employee? you cannot seem to understand the common term “public servant” can you? i don’t remember ever saying that you should “jump for just one person”….sweetie, you SHOULD BE jumping for them all. no matter their political affiliations. and there’s the problem right there. you don’t. and re-read your post again for yourself. since no one[least of all me] said that you weren’t human it’s fascintaing that you would run with that victim line.you have extra perks as a government employee that other workers don’t have, hence the term public servant, and with it goes responsibilities.most people don’t realize that firing someone like you would take a lawyer and you being caught in the act of murder AT WORK. and even then……especially in seattle…good luck to the employer. which in your case just happens to be your neighbors and anyone else that pays taxes. so before you get your trough feeding knickers in a knot…..think about that.there’s a ‘rat’ in every beaurocrat……
and the next time [every five minutes] that you want a raise think upon the fact that i was not the only one that re-located a company out of state after the shenanigans that went on in king county.
last one out…turn out the lights……..
roger…..as usual you fail to enlighten.
and “k”…meet trough feeding bunny…trough feeding bunny meet “k”.
match made in heaven.
ghost-
I do have a duty to the citizens of King County, not to one individual. As for humanity, I believe common courtesy is a characteristic to be admired (and shared).
I understand the term “public servant”, and I see how you use it. When the earthquake hit, I went to serve the citizens of King County. I did not see my wife (who’d be amused at you calling me “sweetie”) and kids for 12 hours. And remember it hit during the work day. I did not ger to inspect my house in daylight for three days due to extra duty I performed. And you know what. I’m exempt, no overtime.
I’ve also fired two employees during my tenure. So you really don’t have any idea whot you are talking about.
And again, I have a specific scope of work. It does not include jumping for anyone. I do go an extra mile for respectful individuals.
Democrat Roger Rabbit, “Tookie” Williams has a little 9 inch “surprise” for you. Happy AIDs Day!!!!
On Friday’s McNeil News Hour, the issue of Faux News (articles written by US sources translated into Arabic, then published or aired in Arab media). The kiss ass defending the tactic said the ends justifies the means.
It reminded me of how our own media is likewise distorted. George Junior did not win the election honestly. Stephan may be acting according to new sets of rules established by republican party leadership. It does not matter that these new rules are unethical or indeed unpatriotic. If the republican party chooses to practice fascism, goose-stepping brownshirts will achieve advancement in the party through such deceits.
Lies upon lies upon lies.
@8
“Satterberg, for example, could sue Logan for violating his confidentiality.”
Real lawyers (like yours truly) always find it amusing to watch “armchair lawyers” (like Michael) attempt to give legal advice to the general public!
HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR
Hey Michael, didn’t you know the 2005 legislature narrowed the scope of the attorney-client privilege applicable to public agency recores created by Hangartner? Have you even read Hangartner? Or SSHB 1758? Or Chapter 42.17 RCW?
Come back when you know something about public records law, son.
Free “Tookie” so Headless Lucy can get the “love” she needs!!
I’ve been asking Stefan for weeks if he’s gonna share the proceeds of his lawsuit against Dean Logan and KCRE with the generous donors who paid for his lawsuit.
If there were nothing inappropriate about Stefan’s intentions, I would have expected a reply to that effect by now.
The degree of ignorance about government I see is astounding to me. People who post here, and folks I talk to have no idea which government they are talking about. They blame Ron Sims for the monorail (a separate special purpose gov’t with no KC ties) and traffic on I-405 (a state road).
They give anecdotal stories about the impossibility of firing government workers. As I said, I’ve fired two and know of many more. They talk of the security and are blind to lay-offs which occur. I’m not looking for sympathy on that one, simply stating a fact.
If you get your information from newspaper headlines, or worse yet, TV news or talk radio, you really do not know anything. I once had the experience of giving an extended interview to TV news complete with data and documentation. They cut a very brief segment with me, followed by a pregnant woman distressed because she did not know what was going on. Of course the media did not share the info to answer her questions. They just constructed a compelling video piece.
If you’ve ever wondered why government spokespeople give brief “sound bites”, this is why. You only tell them your message and you repeat it again and again. Interviews are cut without the consent of the speaker or the knowledge of the audience.
@118 I-405 (a state road).
Isn’t I-405 an interstate? Thanks for pointing out all that ignorance. :)
And you’ve got me rolling. The reason you rarely hear of government workewrs being fired is because of confidentiality
issues. We do not advertise it and they do not brag about it. And sometimes when we present the consequenses, the employee “resigns”. But it’s never publicized.
By the way, the folks I fired were union members. And they did not commit murder on the job.
Goldy you should consider having a no-contact order taken out on Steffy. If that punk is stalking you maybe legal action is the best route. You can be sure the coward would take same against you if he could.
Michael- I have personal knowledge that WSDOT is responsible for construction and maintenance of I-405. Yes it is a federal road. But yes, the State has the responsibility for it. There are no Federal roads crews.
You ghost, it occurs to me that those who run around talking about what other peoples jobs are and demanding that other jump when they walk in the room are entitlement queens. Here is a secret that youve obviously never learned.
When entitlement queens walk in the room most people come down with a serious case of foot nailed to the floor. For people like you, you can count on the fact that any job with a 24 hour turnaround will take 23 hours and 55 minutes. Exactly. Every time.
Wanna know why noone ever helps you the way you seem to think they should? Its cause noone want to. Now I get it, you didn’t leave Seattle for business opportunities, you left cause noone likes you.
re 108: PacMan doesn’t exist except in the addled pate of Puddybud. He’s made several tenuous appearances since you sadly bemoaned his departure. But he scuttles away pretty quickly when unmasked.
Additionally, the things you say are not smart , funny, or particularly perceptive. You’re another legend in your own mind. You’re MANNIX to my ROCKFORD!!!
119
So now Michael, in addition to be a public records law pseudo-expert, is also presenting himself as a transportation pseudo-expert. HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR
Hey Michael — how come the Washington State Patrol patrols I-405 instead of the FBI?
Michael wears a lot of pseudo-hats.
re 117: He should take the proceeds and invest them in a vegetarian diet and a “BOWFLEX” so he can do something about those unsightly MAN BOOBS he’s developing!!
headless lucy @ 122
“PacMan doesn’t exist except in the addled pate of Puddybud. He’s made several tenuous appearances since you sadly bemoaned his departure. But he scuttles away pretty quickly when unmasked.”
If you go back to the first few weeks of both Puddybud’s and PacMan’s posts, it is quite clear that these are two different individuals. I admit that they share some similarities in their writing and argument style, but they are definitely not the same person.
@116 HAR HAR HAR son, you better check again.
“First, no single client who is jointly represented, and no single member of a common interest arrangement may waive the privilege covering joint communications all of the clients or all of the common interest participants generally must join in any waiver. Restatement (Third) of Law Governing Lawyers 76 cmt. g at 586-87 (1998); John Morrell & Co. v. Local Union 304A, 913 F.2d 544, 556 (8th Cir. 1990); In re Grand Jury Subpoenas 89-3 & 89-4, John Doe 89-129, 902 F.2d 244, 248 (4th Cir. 1990). ”
“Jointly-represented clients generally must join in any waiver of the jointly-owned attorney-client privilege. Restatement (Third) of Law Governing Lawyers § 75 cmt. e at 581-82 (1998).”
“Most courts insist that all jointly represented clients join in any waiver that would allow disclosure of privileged communications to a third-party (unless the jointly represented clients have become adverse to one another, in which case they can reveal the privileged communication). Kline v. Gulf Ins. Co., No. 1:01-CV-213, 2001 U.S. Dist. LEXIS 20603, at *15, 16 (W.D. Mich. Nov. 26, 2001).”
“However, a party may not disclose documents protected by the common interest rule to outside parties without the consent of all the jointly represented clients. See, e.g., Securities Inv. Protection Corp. v. Stratton Oakmont, Inc., 213 B.R. 433, 436 (Bankr. S.D.N.Y. 1997); In re Auclair, 961 F.2d 65, 70 (5th Cir. 1992); Keller v. Blinder (In re Blinder Robinson & Co.), 140 B.R. 790, 795 (D. Colo. 1992). ”
etc.
You better hope the Cracker Jack company can refund the cost of your law degree.
Jesus, I go out Christmas shopping, and the trolls go nuts over a comment of mine. Are there stereotypes about Jews in the world? Yes. I just mentioned one. I’ve had jewish friends, jewish girlfriends, and I saw Schindler’s List like, five times. And I cried.
This is funny coming from Sharkansky, who compared County Executive Ron Sims to a fucking African third world dictator, Robert Mugabe, and routinely makes fun of blacks. So fuck you Stefan. Their are lots of reason to loathe you (harassing government employees, boring writing) but your religeon isn’t one of them.
Besides, Goldy is a jew too, and I love Goldy! He’s also a much bettert writer than you. Come to think of it, so is Matt Rosenberg.
@20
Hey Stefan — are you gonna sue me* tomorrow, or wait until the statutory 5 days are up?
* Stefan thinks Roger Rabbit is Dean Logan blogging on a King County computer. That’s bullshit, but it’s useless to point that out to Stefan, who is impervious to all known facts. So I go along with the gag, just for laughs!
HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR
Hey Steffie Baby — what’s your score so far in public disclosure lawsuits? Have you and your lawyer won 1 cent in statutory penalties or attorney fees from the courts yet?
HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR
@127
Well, well, what have we here? A troll who knows what a Restatement is? I’ve met lawyers who cited cases they hadn’t read, and I hope you didn’t invest too much time in reading these. Sure they’re good cites, Mike — IF you’re talking about a PRIVATE attorney-client privilege.
Let’s find out if Michael is a lawyer. Hey Mike, can you tell me what authority the Restatements have in Washington courts?
113
As far as enlightening you, Ghost, I don’t have a jackhammer with me at this moment. So I don’t know how to get through the concrete in your skull to reach whatever brain cells might exist in there.
Hey Stefan, I have a suggestion, why don’t you ask Norm Maleng to prosecute Dean Logan for violating attorney-client privilege and see what he says? Good luck though, Norm doesn’t seem very enthusiastic about prosecuting anyone these days. Besides, Logan can argue he released the memo in “good faith.” But maybe in Norm’s office “good faith” only applies to what Republicans do.
DJ:
Bill’s right. My first story would come 24 hours after I emailed the minnow to comment on the satanic cult they are all members of. Clearly since he didn’t answer, it would be true.
The second post will be about how I am preparing to ask them all, and to send out a records request. I would also comment on how this satanic cult is just one of many satanic cults that all republicans are part of. Other examples would be the AG’s office, Department of Lands, plus all the Democrats who have refused to burn the four of them at the stake since I made my first post.
The third post would be short as to how I sent out my emails and requests.
The fourth post would be about, even though I just sent my request, they haven’t responded. Obviously this proves the satanic cult exists.
The Fifth post would be about how they responded by saying there is no satanic cult, and they have no records because it doesn’t exist. What further proof do you need that they are in a Satanic Cult?
I would then follow up with a post recapping all the previous posts as proof of how Sharansky, Rossi, Vance and Irons are in fact satanist.
So, all that remains is, minnow, are you a satanist?
Roger, I would be just happy if he had cited to a single Washington case, or even the RPCs. You would think after you cited to an RCW he would have looked it up first before going to the Restatements.
hl @122
You are a nutcase. Thank you for teaching our children (Um, you are a teacher, right?) right and, er, left…or is it right and wrong? Up and Down? Stoopid vs smart?
Can’t believe your ridiculous rant on smarter individuals than you…
Why don’t you Reps just give up and move to the deep South— where you will be understood, if not entirely welcomed, as philosophical soul-mates of the KKK but carpetbagging Yankees, nonetheless…
Comment by headless lucy— 12/2/05 @ 5:46 pm
I know of no Rep senator who is affiliated with the KKK but I sure know a coupe of donk senators. You democrats are the real racists.
Michael & Wabbit
Somehow I think only JANINE JOLY would be in trouble if JOLY was the one released the attorney-client communications, and the entire canvassing board had not agreed to it.
I cannot think of any laws that DEAN LOGAN violated by releasing the attorney-client communications, even if LOGAN was not the only client involved. And LOGAN certainly did not violate the RULES OF PROFESSIONAL CONDUCT for lawyers — he would have to be a lawyer, as well as being the attorney (instead of the client).
still baffled how “liberals” can toss around Nazi slurs, and then also anti-semitic slurs, all the while calling us intolerant….
Like pre-revolutionary Russia, w/ the trotskyites forming up
“Under the common interest rule, waiver of the privilege requires the consent of all parties who share the privilege.”
This is based on Federal Rule of Evidence 501, and would supercede any RCW, that’s why I didn’t cite any RCW.
Well, some one definitly did not go to law school.
Thanks for playing Michael. You might want to check on the Federal Evidence rules on practice of law without a license.
Or is “Count Every Vote” only important when the election is really close, and the Democrat is behind?
Comment by Richard Pope— 12/2/05 @ 4:01 pm
Richard to get the full effect you need to cry a little…
sniff sniff. “We need to booohoohoo count every vote” sniff– wipe tear from eye.
Now that is how a true donk would say it.
@ 139
so righton, does that make you a czarist?
Hello Animal Hind Parts people:
I usually don’t post on the Sabbath. God forgive me, but I have to thank two people tonight. I have been lurking as I needed to get my WA stuff in order. GBS was kind enough to speak to the procedures two weeks ago. GBS I did email you.
First DJ: I certainly detest your politics but I respect your brain. And you like to take apart arguments sentence by sentence. Maybe Puddy will learn. Uhhh, Puddy take heart. You need to improve your writings because your arguments fall on deaf eyes (yeah, yeah blind eyes, but then you could not see anything, huh?). I think your assumption regarding our writing style is due to Puddy and I attending to east coast prestigious schools. At least for me, I learned my english on the streets. I had to unlearn that which learned in english class.
I appreciate your sentiment against Loosy. He is one ignorant, racist pig. We called people like that mofos. If Goldy decides to remove illiterate posters from the blog with the new software, Goldy should eliminate loosy. Thank you for standing tall against racism.
Regarding JCH. He is too biting for me, but I do laugh at it. Did I support Stefan calling Sims Mugabe? No. I don’t support BellTowner calling Ms. Malkin a cunt either. Belltowner, did you write the original missive against Michelle she posted on her blog? I see you have been warned before about your commentary but you are like loosy. Maybe you are the same person.
Marks. Thanks again for the support. You are a fine gentleman! The next time in Dallas, Chinese dinner is on me and you better bring the wife. I want to meet the woman whom keeps you!
@137
I know of a Governor who wore KKK white robes as President of her Soririty……….
@68
I am a regular person and he was very nice to me. Stefan is Jewish and nice, Goldy is Jewish and though I’ve never met him, he’s probably a nice guy too. So, I take it you don’t like Jewish people, or you don’t like stereotypes? Or it was just a convienent to attack his religion?
Loosy: Damn, you are one ignorant individual. You are not worth the pixels used to display the words I am writing against you. You have to be ummmm, oh yes, projecting your inate racism on us who usually disagree with Goldy. Why not just crawl back into your cave in Fallujah and call Zarqawi for new marching orders? You remind me of of the hatred spewed by the wahhabist mullahs. If enought of you Animal Hind Parts take BellTowner and loosy to task, I will take JCH to task. I have commented to JCH before.
Don-Don: Puddy is right. You started the name calling back in May. I reminded you my name is PacMan. Sometimes you seem to lose your mind. How come Don-Don? I noticed you don’t follow a thread from start to finish. Why is that? Did you get laid with your hot date? Puddy says you are one of the dull knives of Animal Hind Parts. If you posted information instead of bad disses I could respect your comments when you post something cogent.
Thank you and Happy Sabbath, Shalom Sabbat!
Belltowner,
I apologize, I started reading from the top down instead of the bottom up and I see you’ve already apologized and taken a lot of flak too, I was not trying to add to it.
Lucy, Please stop with the mad personal attacks on people’s body parts unless you look like Brad Pitt, Vin Diesel, Mathew McConaughy, and well you certainly get my point. If you do look like them, we want proof, post your pic online and let us rip your butt apart over your not-so-hot body parts!
@141 I already stated I am not a lawyer. I will finish my bachelor’s degree in Computing and Software Systems from UWT in March. I currently work in computing at Boeing. My previous career was as a Korean Linguist for the military and other intelligence agencies.
@ 148
You owe me no apology. Politics is a game played by big boys (and girls) and if folks can’t take the heat, they can watch C-SPAN. I’m certain Stefan is a nice guy to you, and other people.
@151
Yes, it is for grownups, grownups can apologize too. It is the right thing to do. I have read a lot of your posts, I’m a little to your right and you are a little to my left, but I like hearing all sides to arguments, it can either change your mind or set your mind.
138
“I cannot think of any laws that DEAN LOGAN violated by releasing the attorney-client communications, even if LOGAN was not the only client involved. And LOGAN certainly did not violate the RULES OF PROFESSIONAL CONDUCT for lawyers – he would have to be a lawyer, as well as being the attorney (instead of the client).”
VERY GOOD, Richard!! But you have an advantage — you’re a lawyer … and even if you don’t know your way around this public records stuff, you know where to find things, and more importantly you know how to think like a lawyer.
Everyone, may I have your attention please?
I have figured it out. After hours and hours of research (watching Drew Carey and The Simpson’s reruns) I have the answer.
Stefan suffers from Blog Envy. He obviously needs to mention Goldy every chance he gets to increase traffic to his own poorly written and, even more poorly thought out, musings,
This obviously increases the number on the hit counter when we all go look to see the latest train wreck that Stefan has crafted (dreamed up). Stefan loves these artificially inflated numbers. As a result, Stefan’s PPA (Personal Penis Assessment) increases by an inch or so.
Good night, everyone!
(Stefan, stop that! You will go blind! Oh, sorry, too late.
Dug
PacMan @ 144
“I usually don’t post on the Sabbath. God forgive me, but I have to thank two people tonight. I have been lurking as I needed to get my WA stuff in order. GBS was kind enough to speak to the procedures two weeks ago. GBS I did email you. First DJ: I certainly detest your politics but I respect your brain. “
Thanks…and I am honored that you posted this on the Sabbath. Peace, Pacman, and don’t be a stranger ’round here. Disagreement on politics is what make these comment threads so interesting!
Okay, all, listen up. Here’s a crash course in public records law.
Part I
First of all, Washington’s public records law is found in Chapter 42.17 of the RCW, which also covers campaign financing, lobbyist reporting, financial reporting by public officials, political advertising, and campaign contributions. Effective July 1, 2006, the public records provisions will be moved from this chapter to a new RCW chapter, 42.56.
The general rule is the public is entitled to access public records, except for the specific exceptions set forth in statutes. The exceptions in Chapter 42.17 are not an exclusive list; there are more exceptions scattered elsewhere in the RCWs. Usually the reasons for the exceptions are obvious, e.g., police investigative records.
There are two categories of confidential records, those which agencies are not required to release, and those which agencies must not release. The distinction should be obvious, and is important. If a public official releases a record in the “must not” category, he’s breaking the law. If the record falls in a “not required to release” category, he can release it at his discretion but can refuse to release it.
Part II
The canvassing board is a public agency, and therefore subject to the provisions of the state’s public records law.
Membership of the canvassing board is set by RCW 29A.60.140(1). The county auditor is the board’s chair, and the other two members are the county prosecuting attorney (or a deputy prosecutor designated by the prosecutor) and the chair of the county’s legislative body.
Under the definition in RCW 29.04.025, Dean Logan is King County’s “county auditor,” and therefore is the chair of the canvassing board. As chair, he is the agency head. As agency head, he has the authority to make decisions concerning the release of canvassing board records subject to discretionary disclosure. In addition, RCW 42.17.258 gives Logan immunity for decisions to release or withhold canvassing board records (and election department records) made in good faith.
Part III
You don’t need the Restatements to answer the question of whether Logan could waive attorney-client privilege, Michael.
(By the way, the answer to my quiz is that Restatements are “persuasive authority” in Washington courts. This means the courts often look to Restatements for guidance, sometimes follow them, and like to cite them as “make weight” support for their conclusions; but … and this is a big “but” … Washington law can vary from the general rules stated in the Restatements, and when that happens, the local variation of the rule takes precedence and relying on the Restatement can get you in trouble.)
The Restatement rule you cited for PRIVATE attorney-client privilege is overruled in this context by Washington’s public records statute. The deputy prosecutor’s memo is not a record that by law MUST be kept confidential. The Hangartner decision
(Hangartner v. City of Seattle, 151 Wn.2d 439, 90 P.2d 26 (2004)) created an attorney-client privilege applicable to certain records of public agencies otherwise subject to disclosure under RCw Chapter 42.17 that largely survived the 2005 Legislature’s tinkering in 2SHB 1758, but as the head of the canvassing board, Logan has authority to waive the privilege, if it even applies to this memo.
It’s questionable whether it does, because the memo arguably does not relate to pending or anticipated litigation. This is a gray area, but I tend to read the attorney-client privilege for public records created by Hangartner as having a restrictive definition. I draw this conclusion from the Hangartner’s allusion to the Washington public records law favoring open government and disclosure of public records, and other comments in the opinion. In other words, if Logan refused to release the memo, and the Seattle Times or P-I or Weekly, or Goldy or Stefan, or you or my good friend Bugs Bunny, sued to get it — the chances are pretty good the court would order Logan to release it, in my estimation.
So, by forking up the memo now, Logan may have saved King County taxpayers the expense of defending a lawsuit and paying the requester’s attorney fees and monetary penalties.
By the way, Stefan, how are you and your attorney doing so far in collecting attorney fees and monetary penalties from Logan and KCE? Are you guys up to 1 cent yet?
Another thing, Stefan, if you copy my posts in this thread and send them to your attorney for his use as legal reference material, please send your check for $50.00 to Goldy. I charge $200.00 an hour, and it took me 15 minutes to research and write this.
Finally, Stefan, your legion of loyal fans wants to know if you succeed in extracting attorney fees and/or monetary penalties from KCE, are you going to share the loot with the generous contributors to your “legal action fund” or keep it all for yourself like a selfish prick?
Well, maybe your loyal fans don’t want to know, hell maybe you don’t even have any fans, but Roger Rabbit wants to know! Because, frankly, I suspect you’re a greedy money-grubbing selfish prick! After all, you’re a Republican, so you fit the profile of a greedy money-grubbing selfish prick.
Oh, and Stefan, one last thing — I know damn well you read the HorsesAss comment threads, so don’t try to feign ignorance of my question.
Oh wait, I almost forgot, one last last last thing, Stefan — I’m gonna hop up to your place tonight to eat your garden and shit on your lawn! Catch me if you can!!
HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR
@71
“Everytime I read SoundPolitics, almost everytime, there is a conspiracy. Ironically, it is the same message I hear from the Washington GOP. And I think he makes that point about Stephan very well.”
Jimmy, what do you expect from people who spend all their time hatching conspiracies? Of course they see conspiracies all around them! They see the whole universe as a conspiracy!
For example, they see evolution as a conspiracy by godless liberal professors to destroy their religion. Must be a pretty weak religion, judging from worried they are that God can’t take care of Herself.
ghost @113
Whatever King County pays K for being your public servant, it isn’t enough.
These trollfucks who diss on public servants as “trough feeders” have NO idea what we have to put up with from shitheads like them. You don’t see them taking those jobs, especially at this pay.
So your argument is that these documents were not confidential in the first place? I never considered that angle, I just took for granted the big
Confidential
Attorney-Client Communication
Not Subject to Public Disclosure or Discovery
at the top.
And what is it with the minnows voyeristic/big brother instincts? His pathological need to post people’s identities/photos? Why did he have to post Goldy’s picture, or try to out Torrid Joe? I just have this sick image of the minnow hunckered over his computer in his dirty robe looking up every visitor’s internet address, getting some perverse pleasure in the act.
Does he realize that he comes across as a sad little man, so needy for approval, so scared of any criticism?
DJ: My conscience got to me so I have to make a correction on Sabbath Morning. When I wrote: “east coast prestigious schools”, I knew the correct english is “prestigious east coast schools”. My other one was “the words I am writing against you” when it should have said “these words I write against you”. You made a writing style reference regarding Puddy and me so I was playing on your commentary. My bad!
I look forward to the political jousting here. Too bad both sides drop into vitriolic mode. If we attack the argument and not the person perhaps, and I emphasize the perhaps, we could approach the middle more and not be what ProudAss calls the nutburger (Garden Burger Vegetarians) fringies or as Rujax/Wells calls the jack booting goose steppers. Funny though, why doesn’t David get into it with Rujax? I know when I see goose stepping Nazi films it makes me sick. Just the visualization of them marching makes me nauseous. Maybe that’s what Rujax likes to do? Rujax I hate the Nazis. So wehen you and others write that commentary I will be one of the first to call you on it.
The reason he posted the picture is so everyone can see what a turd looks like
I have control over when PacMan posts. He never says a word until I goad him. Any writer good or bad can adopt a different tone or stylistic “do”. I think Goldy could enlighten us as to whether PacMan is another commenter by comparing IEP’s. I’ll bet Mark the Redneck $100. I won’t definitely predict who, but I think it’s Puddwhack.
re 139: marks: You’re an idiot. It should be ,” individuals smarter than you….” Smarter individuals than you have said so.
re 140: Rufus: I have one word for you: “Southern Strategy”!
Let me save you ,Rufus,the time: “HAR HAR! That’s two words.” If any of you were hip at all you’d know these satiric comments of mine are almost word-for-word from ,Spitit’s: “The Twelve Dreams of Doctor Sardonicus”.
You two can save me your preposterous claims of superiority.
@172,
I appreciate what public service employees do and what they go through. Almost all are underpaid and overworked to the extreme. Many don’t even seek to be paid overtime, they do it because they love it and they are dedicated to their job and the greater good.
174
“Does he realize that he comes across as a sad little man, so needy for approval, so scared of any criticism?”
Being scared shitless of a 9 1/4-lb. bunny gave him an inferiority complex.
Rog Rabbit—
Now you are 9lb 4oz.???
I thought you were down do 9lbs. 2 oz. after you mistakenly scratched off her pecker thinking it was a scab!
181
I like to eat.
@179
“@172,
I appreciate what public service employees do and what they go through. Almost all are underpaid and overworked to the extreme. Many don’t even seek to be paid overtime, they do it because they love it and they are dedicated to their job and the greater good.”
Thanks for your comment, but don’t tell me; tell them.
PacMan,
Welcome back!
dj,
Thanks. Now, back to policy…
Has Stefan apologized?
Loosy: Now he admits he plagiarized someone elses words without attribution. loosy; typical plagiarist idiot.
185 comments and none of the leftist wackos can even try to dispute my hypocrite claim. Goldy, will you ever tire of getting your ass kicked day after day?
Wabbit @ 160, 161 & 162
Very weasonable analysis.
The Hangartner decision for the pending or anticipated litigation exception does deserve further analysis, however.
RCW 29A.08.820 deals with voter challenges filed within 30 days before an election. The three member canvassing board decides these challenges, and the statute says its decisions are final.
RCW 29A.08.840 deals with voter challenges filed at any other time. The county auditor (in charter King County, Dean Logan) decides these challenges, which are subject to judicial review under Chapter 34.05 RCW (the Administrative Procedure Act).
Arguably, even though the canvassing board decision is “final” under RCW 29A.08.820, there could be judicial action taken under the election contest statute, Chapter 29A.68 RCW. This statute also includes the possibility of relief under RCW 29A.68.011, entitled “Prevention and Correction of Election Frauds and Errors”, and doesn’t require that someone seek to overturn an election result. If a voter is aggrieved by having their registration cancelled by the canvassing board (or a challenger is aggrieved at having the challenge denied), then they can seek redress under RCW 29A.68.011. A court proceeding in such case would presumably involve trial and original determinations of fact by a judge, whereas an appeal of the county auditor’s decision under RCW 29A.08.840 and Chapter 34.05 RCW would involve an appeal on the record compiled before the county auditor.
So, arguably, Dean Logan can keep the attorney-client advice secret and not publicly disclose it, since court litigation can result from either type of challenge.
On the other hand, there is absolutely no law which prevents Logan from disclosing this if he wishes to.
Wabbit @ 165
You’ll need to send Stefan a declaration or affidavit concerning the weasonable of your attorney fees. Such as the amount of time spend and the services rendered. Also something about your experience and to support your hourly rate. And your name and bar number as well.
@1188
Richard: Glad to see you finally kicking your brain into gear!
I agree with your statement that “So, arguably, Dean Logan can keep the attorney-client advice secret and not publicly disclose it, since court litigation can result from either type of challenge. On the other hand, there is absolutely no law which prevents Logan from disclosing this if he wishes to.”
The only thing I would add is, the mere possibility of litigation (because a statute authorizes judicial review of canvassing board decisions) does not equate with “anticipated” litigation. Even under Hangartner, there has to be more than a speculative possibility of litigation.
190
25+ years experience of administrative law experience as a government attorney; I bill in 15-minute increments per standard practice of Washington attorneys, and I’m billing him for 1 such unit, the minimum billable time; I’ll gladly supply my real name and bar # to Goldy, and Stefan can take Goldy’s word for it.
Of course, if Stefan doesn’t listen to my advice, he owes me nothing. He’s more than welcome to spend $25,000 paying his own attorney to tell him the same thing I’ll tell him for $50. But then, he’s not spending his own money, is he?
Roger Rabbit@191
With having seen your interpritations of things, you are amongst the last person that I would feel safe seeking advice from… :)